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Pre-reboot Superman, surfer vs Classic Thor and Beta Ray Bill.

BFR AND CIS off, who wins?

Team 2, actual synergy give them the win

Bump.

Superman vs Bill.
Surfer vs Thor.

Superman beats Bill faster than Thor would beat Surfer, then he'd help, team 1 wins.

Superman vs Thor.
Surfer vs Bill.

Either one on team 1 beats the other on team 2.

Team 1 wins

Team 1.

As much as I feel like Bill is a notch below the other three, I'm still concerned about how Surfer might do against either of them.

Team 2 wins

Team 1.

Originally posted by -Pr-
As much as I feel like Bill is a notch below the other three, I'm still concerned about how Surfer might do against either of them.

Surfer needs to just sit back and charge Superman with yellow solar radiation. As he's inventing new powers, he'll smack team 2 around and defend Surfer simultaneously.

Superman can't invent new powers. Not this Superman anyway.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman can't invent new powers. Not this Superman anyway.

If Superman can't invent Superpowers, than why was he developing super powers all throughout his life as he spent time under the yellow sun. How did he grow more invulnerable? More powerful? In All-Star, getting way too close to the sun forced him to start creating a multitude of powers on top of greatly augmenting the ones he had. He became invulnerable to Kryptonite, etc. And let's not forget the New 52 H'el stunt, where H'el possesses psionic abilities as well as Superman's set. It seems that Kryptonians develop super powers from random mutations from yellow sunlight radiation, yet some are genetically intelligent enough to influence the mutations. Helspont uses the word, "Racial memory".

But what are claims and a non-canon arc next to feats?




--------------------


Regeneration -

http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/2000/img00012gl.jpg

Super hypnotism -

http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/456/vo22rc.jpg

Xray heat vision lobotomy -

http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/248/538az.jpg

Invisibility -

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/553/supermaninvisible44zc.jpg

Agelessness -

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/5112/max000214jt.jpg

Energy absorption -

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/supermanandmegaddonwarhead.jpg

Intangibility -

http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/22/57412301.jpg

Intangibility and Invisibility are both extensions of his speed, unlike, say, Martian Manhunter, who just shifts his molecules in a different way.

All-Star is non-canon, so doesn't count.

Superman has always had energy absorption; it's how his powers work.

His agelessness is more a long life, and that's not so much a power, really.

The lobotomy is a focused beam of heat vision, so not a new power.

Super-hypnotism is an extension of T-Rao or T-Vo, a Kryptonian mental discipline that has pretty much been forgotten about at this point.

Dark Knight Returns isn't canon, but anyway, Superman has had advanced healing for years now. It's not really a new power, and is connected to his long life.

And we can't assume that just because H'el was different, that Superman will be too.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Intangibility and Invisibility are both extensions of his speed, unlike, say, Martian Manhunter, who just shifts his molecules in a different way.

All-Star is non-canon, so doesn't count.

Superman has always had energy absorption; it's how his powers work.

His agelessness is more a long life, and that's not so much a power, really.

The lobotomy is a focused beam of heat vision, so not a new power.

Super-hypnotism is an extension of T-Rao or T-Vo, a Kryptonian mental discipline that has pretty much been forgotten about at this point.

Dark Knight Returns isn't canon, but anyway, Superman has had advanced healing for years now. It's not really a new power, and is connected to his long life.

And we can't assume that just because H'el was different, that Superman will be too. Yet, even in the main arc, he invented new super powers chronologically. Him sticking with the conventional ole' set, I believe, is the result of a lack of creativity, or a lack of further forced mutation of his powers. Golden Superman Prime 1 Mill is canon, and is the epitome of that process. I also believe he's a cube being, if he doesn't start out with infinite energy to expel, he can absorb it from the universe.

Anyway I still believe that he can invent powers like x-ray vision, except completely different, see pyrokinesis or electrokinesis, out of nowhere. His ice breath is sort of cryokinesis. I believe he can even reverse his aging, with regeneration, tied to energy absorption. And augment Kryptonian telepathy in the martial aspect, to new heights, to use them against cosmic beings. Xray heat vision is using x-ray vision, micro vision, and heat vision simultaneously. Just like his IMP is using speed and strength simultaneously. Heat vision is literally energy projection, he's capable of any kind of energy projection imo. Telekinesis and flight are within his grasp as well I believe, I believe this extends even to matter manipulation, even on an elementary level of hard physics. In the films his infinite speed allows for time travel, and picking certain probabilities and alternate realities to go to, to literally rewrite history.

With SS giving him increased yellow sunlight exposure, he could do anything...Superman is the first omnipotent mainstream super hero, as much or more so as/than Doctor Manhattan or Captain Atom.

It's not canon to post reboot Superman, though.

I don't agree that he can do it, but either way, we go by what he has done, rather than what he maybe can do if things go his way in the future. It's how we make sure characters remain as actual characters, and not fluid powersets.

He's not omnipotent. Not nearly. It's nice to think so highly of him, but it won't fly in debates.

Originally posted by -Pr-
He's not omnipotent.

I didn't really say he was omnipotent. Molecule man and Doctor Manhattan could be considered omnipotent as in causality manipulation. That's all I was talking about. Beyond that Superman can acquire infinite energy and essentially become a being on par with Galactus by shredding his ethereal form like Superman Prime 1 Mill.

Originally posted by Dolos
Regeneration -

http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/2000/img00012gl.jpg



Superman has regeneration, but that's from his non canon fight with Batman no?

Originally posted by Damborgson
Superman has regeneration, but that's from his non canon fight with Batman no?

I'm not sure if there's any example of regen outside of that incident.

Well "healing factor" would be a better word then.

That instance isn't usable though.

Originally posted by Dolos
I didn't really say he was omnipotent. Molecule man and Doctor Manhattan could be considered omnipotent as in causality manipulation. That's all I was talking about. Beyond that Superman can acquire infinite energy and essentially become a being on par with Galactus by shredding his ethereal form like Superman Prime 1 Mill.

I'm not sure he can, tbh.

====

And yes, Superman has shown a healing factor on multiple occasions.

Superman vs. Thor = Stalemate

Surfer vs. Bill = Surfer

or

Surfer vs. Thor = Stalemate

Superman vs. Bill = Superman

Team 1

Originally posted by vince_slice
Superman vs. Thor = Stalemate

Surfer vs. Bill = Surfer

or

Surfer vs. Thor = Stalemate

Superman vs. Bill = Superman

Team 1

That sounds about right.

Whether Thor beat Superman or Superman beats Thor, the winner's going to be really banged up.

Surfer can beat Bill again, and he'll either help Superman beat Thor or beat the already injured Thor.

I think teamwork is being underrated

Team 1.

Team 1 has two of definitive High Heralds but Team 2 has the experience and team work edge plus a combined assault from Mjolnir/Stormbreaker would be devastating.

Also whoever beats Bill, is going to only do so barely after one hell of a fight.

That being said, Team 1 wins imo. At least if it's individual match-ups. If Bill/Thor get to fight back to back, that might change my answer.

Either of team 1 would beat either of team 2

Superman decimates Thor and Surfer has already spanked Bill

Team 1 easily

Originally posted by Dolos
Surfer needs to just sit back and charge Superman with yellow solar radiation. As he's inventing new powers, he'll smack team 2 around and defend Surfer simultaneously. Yeah. Maybe Surfer can hold onto Supes from behind and force his "energy" into him.
Great idea!
You know, join with him, like "piggy back", only gheyer.

Thor and Bill are strong and durable enough to match Supes and Surfer in the first place, until they decide to use some of their "Asgardian Freak Magic", then it's over.

Too many bizarre feats and possibilities to list. Unless Surfer turns the hammers into Boston Terriers, (which he probably CAN do), Team 2 wins.

5/10 split.

Team 1 for most of the reasons already stated.

Team 1. The Synergy that SS can apply to Superman create a scenario where Team 2 has little chance at winning. Regardless though, Team 1 has a advantage

If Surfer likely isn't going to be using Cosmic Awareness to weakness exploit Superman if he's fighting him, I doubt he's going to use it to start buffing Superman in a team battle. I can't even remember the last time Surfer's used his abilities to amp allies and teammates.

Team 1

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If Surfer likely isn't going to be using Cosmic Awareness to weakness exploit Superman if he's fighting him, I doubt he's going to use it to start buffing Superman in a team battle. I can't even remember the last time Surfer's used his abilities to amp allies and teammates.

I Agree with this, surfer is not going amp superman. I think it's a good fight either way but superman's raw physical attributes and surfer's versatility are much too difficult to overcome.