Ultimate Nullifier Survival

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Sixth_Winged
Reed Richards who is immune to the effects of UN is operating the it. Who amongst this Elder Gods/Cosmics/Abstracts survive and gets obliterated?

-Shuma Gorath
-Maggedon
-The Vishanti
-Imperiex
-Phantom Stranger
-Eclipso
-Inbetweener
-Sandman
-Spectre
-Nekron
-Lucifer
-Living Tribunal

Sundipped
Lucifer, LT and maybe Spectre. Everyone else is erased.

zopzop
Originally posted by Sundipped
Lucifer, LT and maybe Spectre. Everyone else is erased.
This.........but.......
Nekron and possibly the IB survive just fine too.

Keep in mind Nekron is the Death/Oblivion aspect in DC (yes BOTH abstractions), so he's not being nullified.

Inbetweener can possibly survive it too. Keep in mind he is the embodiment of ALL opposing forces : life/death, existence/non-existence, order/chaos, love/hate, etc...

operator616
only lucifer and LT survive it, lucifer has already survived a multiversal blast, and LT is beyond such concepts as nullification (stated in his own bio, LT is beyond oblivion)

mighty adam
Phantom stranger will survive too if specter couldn't kill him the UN won't either

curryman
Originally posted by zopzop
Inbetweener can possibly survive it too. Keep in mind he is the embodiment of ALL opposing forces : life/death, existence/non-existence, order/chaos, love/hate, etc...

This is what's so tricky.

If Inbetween is erased should duality/the concept of opposing ideas just vanish from the universe? How does that work stick out tongue

753
Originally posted by zopzop
This.........but.......
Nekron and possibly the IB survive just fine too.

Keep in mind Nekron is the Death/Oblivion aspect in DC (yes BOTH abstractions), so he's not being nullified.

Inbetweener can possibly survive it too. Keep in mind he is the embodiment of ALL opposing forces : life/death, existence/non-existence, order/chaos, love/hate, etc... what about SG's many angledness?

zopzop
Originally posted by 753
what about SG's many angledness?
Undying doesn't mean un-nullifiable. They two different things smile

He gets erased.

Sundipped
Originally posted by zopzop
This.........but.......
Nekron and possibly the IB survive just fine too.

Keep in mind Nekron is the Death/Oblivion aspect in DC (yes BOTH abstractions), so he's not being nullified.

Inbetweener can possibly survive it too. Keep in mind he is the embodiment of ALL opposing forces : life/death, existence/non-existence, order/chaos, love/hate, etc...

I doubt it.
Remember it's Reed with the UN in this thread. The same Reed who "ended all that is" in order to "realign all that was".

That blast nullified Abraxas and the embodiment of the multiverse.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/a965d74d-30b9-4d3a-a420-8ec1459119e5_zpsaed8f7d9.jpg http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/bc125736-6836-4a11-a764-44a34c0a60f6_zps85343b51.jpg

Now with Eternity momentarily erased, that would render the functionality of the concepts null and void. Even if they somehow survive that particular type of blast, (even tho they would serve no purpose because there's no longer a universe), the UN would have no problems erasing them at all individually.

operator616
Originally posted by Sundipped
I doubt it.
Remember it's Reed with the UN in this thread. The same Reed who "ended all that is" in order to "realign all that was".

That blast nullified Abraxas and the embodiment of the multiverse.


Now with Eternity momentarily erased, that would render the functionality of the concepts null and void. Even if they somehow survive that particular type of blast, (even tho they would serve no purpose because there's no longer a universe), the UN would have no problems erasing them at all individually.

reed nullifying the multiverse is doubtful, since there is an abraxas bio that says the feat was universal not multiversal

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by 753
what about SG's many angledness? Him and his butt buddies got blasted to shit by 616 Death

Sundipped
Originally posted by operator616
reed nullifying the multiverse is doubtful, since there is an abraxas bio that says the feat was universal not multiversal

Bio lists Abraxas as a dimensional destroyer.
However, Reed reset the multiverse because it was shown on panel what was affected by Abraxas. Where do you think all these dead Galacti came from?

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/49c8257d-a2e2-4871-9d12-1ea17bbd7836_zps9947801f.jpg

753
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Him and his butt buddies got blasted to shit by 616 Death but they werent killed, just crippled.IIRC it was said they'd take whatever billions of years to recover.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by 753
but they werent killed, just crippled.IIRC it was said they'd take whatever billions of years to recover. still, if Death can do that with her finger zapper, you'd have to imagine the UN would punch his face into Oblivion

TheTyrant
LT, Lucifer, and Nekron. Maybe even Spectre.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by TheTyrant
LT, Lucifer, and Nekron. Maybe even Spectre. Let's not get crazy with Spectre here. Guy would probably have trouble with a nuke at this stage

operator616
Originally posted by Sundipped
Bio lists Abraxas as a dimensional destroyer.
However, Reed reset the multiverse because it was shown on panel what was affected by Abraxas. Where do you think all these dead Galacti came from?

1ea17bbd7836_zps9947801f.jpg

Abraxas being a dimension destroyer hardly means anything to what we're discussing.

Abraxas killing several galacti has nothing to do with reed's nullifying feat.

1. it was never stated on panel that reed nullified the multiverse

2. bio states that reed nullified the multiverse

however, UN is still multiversal as proven by reed in fantastic four: the resurrection of galactus

Mr Master
Whether the Multiverse was reset directly with the UN,
or via nullifying Abraxas thus undoing all the damage he'd wrought ...
... regardless, the Multiverse was reset via the UN.
Meaning, all of Eternity/Infinity was re-formed to its previous state.

Abraxas also just happens to be the most powerful Concept after the LT. (current/canon/present)

So Abraxas > Multiversal Space-Time Continuum

UN actually ends up looking better just by taking out Abraxas. smile

operator616
Originally posted by Mr Master
Whether the Multiverse was reset directly with the UN,
or via nullifying Abraxas thus undoing all the damage he'd wrought ...
... regardless, the Multiverse was reset via the UN.
Meaning, all of Eternity/Infinity was re-formed to its previous state.

Abraxas also just happens to be the most powerful Concept after the LT. (current/canon/present)

So Abraxas > Multiversal Space-Time Continuum

UN actually ends up looking better just by taking out Abraxas. smile

no it wasn't, it was never stated on panel that the multiverse is the one which was nulllified. And Abraxas bio states that the universe was nullified not the multiverse.

i would say oblivion is the most powerful concept after LT not abraxas, abraxas couldn't even destroy the multiverse without the UN, marvel has more than dozen multiversal busters

Sundipped
Originally posted by operator616
Abraxas being a dimension destroyer hardly means anything to what we're discussing.

Abraxas killing several galacti has nothing to do with reed's nullifying feat.

1. it was never stated on panel that reed nullified the multiverse

2. bio states that reed nullified the multiverse

however, UN is still multiversal as proven by reed in fantastic four: the resurrection of galactus

You said that Abraxas' bio didn't mention multiverse. I was just telling you explicitly what was stated.

1. What do you think Reed meant when he said he had to end all that is? He wasn't just talking about MU 616.
2. There ya go. Now put 2 & 2 together.

And what has Oblivion done to put him above Abraxas?

operator616
Originally posted by Sundipped
You said that Abraxas' bio didn't mention multiverse. I was just telling you explicitly what was stated.

1. What do you think Reed meant when he said he had to end all that is? He wasn't just talking about MU 616.
2. There ya go. Now put 2 & 2 together.

And what has Oblivion done to put him above Abraxas?

"all that is" is a vague expression. it could also mean only 616 universe (which is backed by the bio).

fact is, there is no direct proof that it was the multiverse that was nullified, on the other hand we have abraxas and galactus bios state that the universe was nullified.

chaos king (who destroyed 98% of the multiverse) is but one aspect of oblivion, abraxas can't even destroy the multiverse under his own power.

zopzop
Originally posted by Sundipped
And what has Oblivion done to put him above Abraxas?
Well according to that stupid @$$ retcon, CK was merely an aspect of Oblivion. CK wrecked 98.75% of the MULTIVERSE before he was BFRed into an universe outside 616s multiverse.

That puts him above Abraxas IMHO.

Also Abraxas feared the Nullifier add to that the fact that nullified beings go to Oblivion's realm (as shown in that Quasar issue) and we can safely say Oblivion > Abraxas.

Branlor Swift
I'm of the opinion that "Multiverse" in Gayos Slapfight meant 616 multiverse.

IE all the little dimensions and shit he was ramburgling.

Although I haven't read Oblivion's comments for a while, so meh.

operator616
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I'm of the opinion that "Multiverse" in Gayos Slapfight meant 616 multiverse.

IE all the little dimensions and shit he was ramburgling.

Although I haven't read Oblivion's comments for a while, so meh.

there is no 616 multiverse, there's a 616 universe.

Sundipped
Originally posted by operator616
"all that is" is a vague expression. it could also mean only 616 universe (which is backed by the bio).

fact is, there is no direct proof that it was the multiverse that was nullified, on the other hand we have abraxas and galactus bios state that the universe was nullified.

chaos king (who destroyed 98% of the multiverse) is but one aspect of oblivion, abraxas can't even destroy the multiverse under his own power.

Reed corrected all the damage caused by Abraxas which was multiversal. Combine that with the bios and his statement. Now what other conclusion can you come to? That's enough evidence for me. I don't have to see the actual word multiverse on panel.

Oh that BS.
I know about that but to you and zop I have to see Oblivion actually doing something on panel himself. I'm not going off a Thor Annual character statement.

The Merchant
The U.N. erases concepts/ideas...That kind of durability is something that we can't comprehend. Going with LT.

zopzop
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I'm of the opinion that "Multiverse" in Gayos Slapfight meant 616 multiverse.

IE all the little dimensions and shit he was ramburgling.

Although I haven't read Oblivion's comments for a while, so meh.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/12/123075/2426128-thor_annual_zone_021_super.jpg

Originally posted by The Merchant
The U.N. erases concepts/ideas...That kind of durability is something that we can't comprehend. Going with LT.
Yeah but how do you explain the fact that NULLIFIED beings wind up in Oblivion's realm? How would the nullifier nullify the Lord of the place nullified beings go when they are nullified?

Sundipped
Originally posted by zopzop


Also Abraxas feared the Nullifier add to that the fact that nullified beings go to Oblivion's realm (as shown in that Quasar issue) and we can safely say Oblivion > Abraxas.

Aside from that aspect bullshit, how does Oblivions realm catering to nullified beings put him above Abraxas or the UN?

zopzop
Originally posted by Sundipped
Aside from that aspect bullshit, how does Oblivions realm catering to nullified beings put him above Abraxas or the UN?
How would the UN nullify the King of the place NULLIFIED beings go to when they are NULLIFIED?

Oblivion doesn't fear the UN, it just adds more subjects to his realm. Abraxas crapped his pants when that thing was pointed in his face.

Branlor Swift
Yeah, that muddies my theory a little bit.

Although there's a way to construe it as meaning that him coming close to destroying 1 universe was a prelude to the death of all... meh.

In Pak War purely, he only dealt specifically with things in the 616. And the dimensions that are around it. So Multiverse still works, it's just a bad choice of words. Guy couldn't even get out of a bubble universe. How's he going to destroy the entire multiverse off panel?

operator616
Originally posted by Sundipped
Reed corrected all the damage caused by Abraxas which was multiversal. Combine that with the bios and his statement. Now what other conclusion can you come to? That's enough evidence for me. I don't have to see the actual word multiverse on panel.

Oh that BS.
I know about that but to you and zop I have to see Oblivion actually doing something on panel himself. I'm not going off a Thor Annual character statement.

you dont seem to understand what im saying here.

combine that with the bios, what do you mean by that? the bios state that reed nullified the universe not the multiverse.

there is no on panel evidence that it was a multiverse, but the bios state it was a universe, so going by the facts, it is a universal feat not a multiversal

i agree with you here, since before the retcon he was shown being infinty's equal (stalemated infinty who is universal), the retcon put him on a whole new level.

Sundipped
Oh and Abraxas was collapsing realities just by approaching them. CK nor Oblivion have been shown to do something of that magnitude so casually.

Sundipped
Originally posted by zopzop
How would the UN nullify the King of the place NULLIFIED beings go to when they are NULLIFIED?

Oblivion doesn't fear the UN, it just adds more subjects to his realm. Abraxas crapped his pants when that thing was pointed in his face.

I don't look at that as putting Oblivion above it powerwise but more of a cosmic glitch that at the most would just bfr him back to his realm I guess.

operator616
Originally posted by Sundipped
Oh and Abraxas was collapsing realities just by approaching them. CK nor Oblivion have been shown to do something of that magnitude so casually.

true but on the other hand, abraxas couldn't destroy the mutliverse without the UN, while CK was just about to destroy it.

Sundipped
Originally posted by operator616
you dont seem to understand what im saying here.

combine that with the bios, what do you mean by that? the bios state that reed nullified the universe not the multiverse.

there is no on panel evidence that it was a multiverse, but the bios state it was a universe, so going by the facts, it is a universal feat not a multiversal

i agree with you here, since before the retcon he was shown being infinty's equal (stalemated infinty who is universal), the retcon put him on a whole new level.

Earlier you said this:

Originally posted by operator616

2. bio states that reed nullified the multiverse


I was saying combine what Reed said with that. Plus the fact that everything was restored back to normal. Including all those dead Galactus'. There had to be more than one universe involved because they didn't come from just one universe.

Branlor Swift
Didn't Laxus kill all the Reeds across the big multiverse?

So if there's a Council of Reeds. Something brought them back.

operator616
Originally posted by Sundipped
Earlier you said this:



I was saying combine what Reed said with that. Plus the fact that everything was restored back to normal. Including all those dead Galactus'. There had to be more than one universe involved because they didn't come from just one universe.

must have mistyped, i meant that bio states that reed nullified the universe.

was there any mention that the galacti were restored? nope.

zopzop
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Didn't Laxus kill all the Reeds across the big multiverse?

So if there's a Council of Reeds. Something brought them back.
Excellent point but............

Don't forget 616 Reed used the UN to reset the multiverse thus undoing all the damage Abraxas did, I'd assume this meant the Reeds were "unkilled".

Originally posted by Sundipped
I don't look at that as putting Oblivion above it powerwise but more of a cosmic glitch that at the most would just bfr him back to his realm I guess.
Yup. I don't disagree with this.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by zopzop
Excellent point but............

Don't forget 616 Reed used the UN to reset the multiverse thus undoing all the damage Abraxas did, I'd assume this meant the Reeds were "unkilled".


Yup. I don't disagree with this. I realize. It was just a point towards the "The UN reset the jewniverse, not the multi"

Sundipped
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Didn't Laxus kill all the Reeds across the big multiverse?

So if there's a Council of Reeds. Something brought them back.

thumb up
And yeah he did it with a gesture

Originally posted by operator616

was there any mention that the galacti were restored? nope.

Reed realigned all that was and corrected the multiversal damage. It's plain as day the implications of what Abraxas brought. You seem to be reaching now to prove this wasn't a multiversal reset. The statement from Reed should have been enough but since it wasn't.......

The damage is confirmed here:
A balance has been upset within ALL Eternity. It strictly states multi-Eternity is affected.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15755812_fantasticfourannual2001.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15755813_fantasticfourannual2001-1.jpg

Alt. Frankie - "Abraxas killed the Galactus of my universe".
Reed - "It may be more than that".

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/bde8545c-abbe-4791-8d87-eb6b0301439f_zps952f867f.jpg

^ And it was. A Galactus skull was navigating the multiverse via Abraxas. Confirmed by Reed.

Omniversal Gaurdian Roma states that a Galactus was created in every reality because of Abraxas. Now that 616 Big G is dead, "the door to the multiverse became unhinged".

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/3ca9784a-24e4-4faa-8efa-6191a323b377_zps32af9f4a.jpg

Oh yeah, here's the killing of all Reeds which was yet more damage that had to be reset.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/b1f1cc29-5ab0-4127-b99a-fddee0426cd4_zps8d19b7ed.jpg

Now don't tell me you're still going to favor the bio over all of that?

Mr Master
^^ thumb up

Originally posted by operator616

abraxas couldn't even destroy the multiverse without the UN
Originally posted by operator616

abraxas can't even destroy the multiverse under his own power.
Originally posted by operator616

abraxas couldn't destroy the mutliverse without the UN

while CK was just about to destroy it.
3 times stated ... and it's Not true.

The actual facts:

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15757827_AB.jpg

Abraxas doesn't employ any kind of weaponry/artifact or outside sources of power.

(Abraxas is a Conceptual Abstract sentience) ... his power is within his existence,
just like Eternity doesn't need to implement other sources to embody "Time" or Infinity "Space."

Anyway ... Abraxas never intended to use the UN,
he only acquired it so it would not be used on him.
Since in that arc it was the only thing that could stop him from destroying "All there ever was, is or will be.

Abraxas (under his own power) is the destroyer of All Creation!

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792417_Ab2.jpg

"And if we do not act soon ... All of Time will be lost to us"

---------------------------------------

This is why the Multiversal Space-Time Continuum was afraid of Abraxas,
this is why it could do nothing against Abraxas.

operator616
^
never was it stated on panel that abraxas can destory the multiverse under his own power.

no he didn't acquire it so that it wouldn't be used on him, it was stated by richards (FF: resurection of galactus) if abraxas would get to the UN he would be able to destroy the mutliverse, meaning that he needs the UN to do it.

"all time will be lost" is hardly an evidence that he can destroy the multiverse, you know that, it's such a vague expression.

Endless Mike
Assuming this is Preboot Phantom Stranger (I don't know or care about the new one), he might survive just due to being essential or cursed to exist by the Presence or something. Spectre could survive if he was at a high enough level (drawing power from the Logoz etc.). Nekron might survive, Lucifer would laugh it off, as would LT. The rest are gone.

Sixth_Winged
Just realized I forgot to specify Sandman. The sandman in this thread is DC's dream btw, kinda curious how one of the endless handle being nullified. I remember a particular alternate universe where death got nullified by the U.N. (think it's earth x) so I'm kinda curious how nekron and dream fare.

operator616
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Assuming this is Preboot Phantom Stranger (I don't know or care about the new one), he might survive just due to being essential or cursed to exist by the Presence or something. Spectre could survive if he was at a high enough level (drawing power from the Logoz etc.). Nekron might survive, Lucifer would laugh it off, as would LT. The rest are gone.

spectre's connection to the logoz can be destroyed, PS wouldn't survive the UN, he has never shown to be able to tank a multiversal blast.

Endless Mike
I admit that part is speculation but it seems that his immortality is mandated by the Presence.

operator616
^yes however so is every aspect of his (the word, spectre, eclipso, the radiant, etc..) non of which have survived multiversal destruction.

Sundipped
Originally posted by operator616


no he didn't acquire it so that it wouldn't be used on him, it was stated by richards (FF: resurection of galactus) if abraxas would get to the UN he would be able to destroy the mutliverse, meaning that he needs the UN to do it.

That's not definitive evidence that Abraxas can't destroy the multiverse under his own power. That statement applies to anyone in possession of the UN. Reed didn't say that it was absolutely necessary for him to have the UN in order to accomplish that but merely that it can be done without a doubt if Abraxas (or even me for that matter) did have it.

operator616
Originally posted by Sundipped
That's not definitive evidence that Abraxas can't destroy the multiverse under his own power. That statement applies to anyone in possession of the UN. Reed didn't say that it was absolutely necessary for him to have the UN in order to accomplish that but merely that it can be done without a doubt if Abraxas (or even me for that matter) did have it.

reed stated that if abraxas got to the UN he would be able to destroy the multiverse, nowhere was it stated that he acquired it only so that it can't be used on him, so the only logical explanation as to why abraxas wanted the UN is that he can't destroy the multiverse on his own or it would take him a very very long time (which also makes sense since he has shown the ability to destroy universes one by one but seeing how the multiverse has infinite universes it would take quite some time)

Mr Master
^^ thumb down

Originally posted by operator616

never was it stated on panel that abraxas can destory the multiverse under his own power.

no he didn't acquire it so that it wouldn't be used on him,

it was stated by richards

if abraxas would get to the UN he would be able to destroy the mutliverse,
meaning that he needs the UN to do it.
I see,
so you think Reed is speaking specifically about Abraxas' power/capabilities,
and not about the UN instead? (Proven when Reed himself remade the Multiverse)

Anyway, fallacies aside ...

If Abraxas wanted the UN to help him do what his presence/existence does via purpose (Concept of Destruction)

Then why did Abraxas get his hands on the UN at the end of issue #48,
and decided NOT to use it EVER through out all of issue #49?

no expression ...

(notice how Abraxas states, "And so, it Ends"wink below:

This is because he Now has the UN, and feels no one can stop him,
just like he specifically explained below:

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15761394_AB_UN1.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15761395_AB_UN2.jpg


Eagerly awaiting unsupported/self generated theories as a reply.



*** Or, is the answer right there On Panel as Reed stated clearly:

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15757827_AB.jpg

"You NEVER intended to fire the UN"

(so is Reed lying here, but not when you quote em erroneously?) erm

Abraxas doesn't employ any kind of weaponry/artifact or outside sources of power.
(Abraxas is a Conceptual Abstract sentience) ... his power is within his existence.
Just like Eternity and the rest, they don't need weapons, they ARE (personify) the weapons.

Mr Master
^^^ Further corroborating proof to support Marvel facts!

......................................................................................


Handbook:


Evidently, only a power UN-like can defeat Abraxas:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792506_Ab3.jpg

"Realizing the danger Abraxas posed,
the FF went on a Dimension-hopping journey to recover the UN,
the One weapon that could destroy him"

......................................................................................


On panel:


Indeed, Roma (Omniversal Guardian) stated the same thing:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792507_Ab4.jpg

Roma: "It will be a weapon of unimaginable power that will WIN This day"

......................................................................................


Here Galactus says it, and Reed realizes this truth:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792508_Ab5.jpg

Galactus: "But This Time, This Day can end ONLY one way"

Reed: "Yes .... God help me, I can see that now"

......................................................................................


This particular aspect of the debate is done here friend. smile

Xplosive
LT and Lucifer survive easily (also Spectre at his best), others get destroyed. Abraxas was destroying under his own power, never had a feat to destroy Multiverse at once simultaneously, but he supposedly could do it,.. or universe after universe or dimensions... doesn't matter.

But he was afraid of UN, not because he needed to destroy Multiverse, but because he knew he could be defeated by its power.

operator616
im not even sure what you're talking about here, i said that reed stated that if abraxas would acquire the UN he would destroy the multiverse.

and im still not sure about the multiverse nullification, i admit that everything happening in the comic itself points out that it should be a multiversal nullification (despite not being stated on panel) and even though the bios aren't always accurate there are several bios stating that what reed nullified was a universe, so i guess it can be approached from both sides.

he was occupied by the heroes in the issue (he was probably planning to use it after he takes care of the heroes) and then galactus stole the UN from him.

i see your point, about abraxas being the personification of destruction itself, but that doesn't help your case here. also, when something/someone is nullified it goes to oblivion's realm IIRC however, this was stated in a what if comic (which was also quite some time ago).

as to your second post, your whole post is about proving that only UN can destroy abraxas correct? i never disagreed with you here.

Sundipped
1. On panel evidence>>>bio.
2. Reed didn't imply that Abraxas had to have UN to destroy multiverse.
3. Oblivion's realm is irrelevant because the multiverse was nullified. How's that going to fit in one realm?

operator616
^
1. never disagreed with you here but if you read my post i said that despite having no on panel evidence, it does point out to being a multiversal nullification, and yet it contradicts the bios. So the conclusion is, like i said, you could approach it from both sides.

2. nor was there an implication that abraxas could destroy the multiverse with his power.

3. my point here was that abraxas doesn't personify the UN but oblivion does.

Mr Master
^^ I'm noticing a pattern, like a symbol resembling a circle.

Originally posted by operator616

im not even sure what you're talking about here,

i said that reed stated that if abraxas would acquire the UN
he would destroy the multiverse
Yea, I know what you said, and I responded to it with On Panel evidence.

First, I presented Reed letting us know in Abraxas' face that
Abraxas was NEVER INTENDING to fire the UN!

Second, I presented Abraxas acquiring the UN BEFORE the Last book,
and NEVER using it, EVER!!!

Although in your mind that was his aim.

*** I did say I would await your unsupported theories and here they are:

Now you wanna hide behind Abraxas was too busy with the heroes
so he decided to wait it out till the end but oh dear big G came back to life.

That's laughable! ... when Abraxas was dispatching all effortlessly (literally)
and he had about a dozen Alternate Nova's needlessly helping him.


Awaiting the next excuse
Originally posted by operator616

and im still not sure about the multiverse nullification, i admit
that everything happening in the comic itself points out that it
should be a multiversal nullification (despite not being stated on
panel) and even though the bios aren't always accurate there are
several bios stating that what reed nullified was a universe, so i
guess it can be approached from both sides.
Actually there's only ONE bio that states that, and that's Abraxas' bio.

Also, it doesn't say he nullified "A" or "one" or "1" universe,
it says, Reed nullified Abraxas & The Universe itself.

Anyway, the UN bio states he nullified Abraxas,
and this as a result remade the Multiverse to it's previous state,
which was shifting/displaced because of Abraxas.
Originally posted by operator616

he was occupied by the heroes in the issue (he was probably
planning to use it after he takes care of the heroes) and then
galactus stole the UN from him.
Like I said ... laughing

Abraxas had all the time in the world to use the UN before G took it from em.
Originally posted by operator616

i see your point, about abraxas being the personification of destruction itself,

but that doesn't help your case here.
Huh ... wait, lol!

So, you're saying that Concepts need outside assistance to be ... Concepts?

ka-dur ... So Eternity uses some outside source to personify Time,
and Infinity applies help to personify Space.

Yea, she has that gadget called the 'Space-Inflator'
which then allows her to be herself. LOL!!!
Originally posted by operator616

also, when something/someone is nullified it goes to oblivion's realm IIRC
It's true, but this does not apply to Abraxas.

Abraxas can not be nullified from existence, only from reality.

In fact, ... "Nothingness" ... is a delight for Abraxas:

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15763212_AB_Nothingness.jpg

Galan007
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Reed Richards who is immune to the effects of UN is operating the it. Who amongst this Elder Gods/Cosmics/Abstracts survive and gets obliterated?

-Shuma Gorath
-Maggedon
-The Vishanti
-Imperiex
-Phantom Stranger
-Eclipso
-Inbetweener
-Sandman
-Spectre
-Nekron
-Lucifer
-Living Tribunal Nekron, LT, Lucifer, and Phantom Stranger survive.

operator616
^
and yet we have another scan contradicting that with reed saying that if abraxas gets to the UN he would be able to destroy the entire multiverse, he specifically stated that abraxas getting UN is for multiversal destruction not because he doesn't want anyone else getting it.

what's laughable? i agree that abraxas was toying with them, but he didn't use the nullifier for story purposes (or you could say PIS).

WRONG there are 2 bios, one for abraxas and another one for galactus. again, wrong, the abraxas bio states that reed nullified the universe.

why are you being so sarcastic? i never stated anything about eternity or infinity for that matter. tell me how abraxas being a personification of destruction helps you r case here?

Mr Master
Originally posted by operator616
^
and yet we have another scan contradicting that with reed saying
that if abraxas gets to the UN he would be able to destroy the entire
multiverse, he specifically stated that abraxas getting UN is for
multiversal destruction not because he doesn't want anyone else
getting it.
The scans do Not contradict each other, at all.

The instance you're referring to is from the Beginning of the series,
issue #46, and it has Reed telling us what Abraxas could do with the UN,
which is the same thing any capable mind can do as Reed himself proved.

Reed, has NO idea WHY Abraxas wants the UN,
but he does know what he could do with it.

That's it, simple.

Now,
moving forward to the end of issue #48,
we learn from Abraxas himself, he wants the UN so that no one can stop him:

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15763593_Ab_again1.jpg


Then, moving even further to the end of issue #49,
Reed himself certifies that Abraxas NEVER intended on using the UN:

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15763594_AB_again2.jpg

That's it, simple.

Originally posted by operator616

what's laughable? i agree that abraxas was toying with them,

but he didn't use the nullifier for story purposes (or you could say PIS).
Yea ok. So, where'd you get this info from again?

Wait, so your retort is, "story purposes" ... or ... good ol' "PIS" ...

Instead of what's actually literally stated On Panel! smile


I think we're done here friend.
You can reply with more suppositions, but I'm not that bored ... so peace and love.

Originally posted by operator616

WRONG there are 2 bios, one for abraxas and another one for
galactus. again, wrong, the abraxas bio states that reed nullified
the universe.
On Panel > Bios
Originally posted by operator616

why are you being so sarcastic? i never stated anything about
eternity or infinity for that matter. tell me how abraxas being a
personification of destruction helps you r case here?
I'm sorry but your posts (on this subject) demand sarcasm.

You're actually trying to argue that Marvel Concepts need outside sources
to exercise their purpose as a Concept, and that's laughable.

Abraxas doesn't need the UN to do what he was BORN/created to do.

I already proved extensively that Abraxas ONLY wanted the UN
so it would not be used on him,
since it was his ONLY weakness in the story.

Yet, you return, again, and again and ... I mean what do you expect friend.

operator616
i concede. well done.

though i must emphasize on the last point.

nullification isn't the same as destruction, if something is nullified it's completely erased as if it never existed before, and abraxas doesn't personify that, that part goes to oblivion, hence why i stated this doesn't help your case here, so the sarcasm wasn't needed.

Galan007
Mr. M:
Do you believe Abraxas felt that the UN was the only 'thing' in the multiverse that could stop him, because the IG was non-functional at the time..?

Mr Master
Originally posted by operator616

i concede. well done.
thumb up
Originally posted by operator616


though i must emphasize on the last point.

nullification isn't the same as destruction, if something is nullified it's
completely erased as if it never existed before, and abraxas doesn't
personify that, that part goes to oblivion, hence why i stated this
doesn't help your case here, so the sarcasm wasn't needed.
I see.

Well it's true, destruction and nullification in the literal sense are two different things.
But remember my friend these are comics, and other subtleties apply.

Abraxas' job is to destroy all creation.

But Abraxas himself is just the realization of what is happening because of Galactus' so called "death."

Big G dies, and All Reality collapses. He's like the foundation of all reality.

but ...

Instead of a boring scenario like reality just falling apart akin to a building going down,
Marvel gives us "Abraxas" who represents the act of that building falling down,
with cool affects and witty one liners.

In other words, Abraxas doesn't decide to destroy reality,
just like Abraxas can't make any real decisions,
just like Abraxas can't veer off course.

He's a Concept, just like the building analogy,
just imagine if while the building was falling
it could laugh at everyone getting crushed inside
and once it's all in bits on the floor it's had its fun/run & now serves no other purpose.

That's Abraxas.


*edit* lol, I lost myself there, as for nullification,
Abraxas wants the "Nothingness"

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15763212_AB_Nothingness.jpg

So, all reality collapsing must inevitably = nothingness.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007
Mr. M:

Do you believe Abraxas felt that the UN was the only 'thing' in the
multiverse that could stop him, because the IG was non-functional at the time..?
Good observation.

I can't say if he ever knew about the Gems but I do know he would've got stomped by em.

The LT being incognito is easily explained
with the reasoning that he can't interrupt a Concept's purpose.

Cosmic law and whatnot.

Galan007
Right, right. I understand LT not intervening. I'm just wondering if Abraxas didn't consider the infinity gauntlet as a viable tactic/power that could be used against him because at the time the gems couldn't be used in unison..? 'Cause like you said, we know the IG>>>Abraxas.

Mindset
Nope, both of you nerds are wrong.

Come at me.

Mr Master
^^ laughing out loud .. luv ya pal.
Originally posted by Galan007

Right, right. I understand LT not intervening. I'm just wondering if
Abraxas didn't consider the infinity gauntlet as a viable tactic/power
that could be used against him because at the time the gems couldn't
be used in unison..? 'Cause like you said, we know the IG>>>Abraxas.
Yea like I said, not sure if Ab even knew about that.
(rather I don't think the writer considered that)

It's possible of course, but strictly comic book speaking as if Ab knew?

Absolutely, I agree, he could've said that with what you said in mind.

Endless Mike
Spectre survived multiversal destruction by the Anti-Monitor IIRC

operator616
^
1. he didn't

2. he was amped, so the spectre fighting AM doesn't count as being a feat for the spectre.

kevdude
Originally posted by operator616
^
1. he didn't

2. he was amped, so the spectre fighting AM doesn't count as being a feat for the spectre.

He banished the Anti-Monitor back to his universe without killing him, I'd say that's surviving....
Survive:

The Spectre
Lucifer
LT
Imperiex
Phantom Stranger

operator616
^
what has banishing AM back to his universe have to do with surviving multiversal destruction? and you also missed the most important part, which is spectre was amped, heavily.

how is imperiex surviving this? he doesn't have the feats to suggest that he can.

Endless Mike
The Presence said the Spectre could have beaten the Anti-Monitor but held back

operator616
Originally posted by Endless Mike
The Presence said the Spectre could have beaten the Anti-Monitor but held back

when was that stated? if you dont have a scan at least tell me what issue is it.

kevdude
Originally posted by operator616
^
what has banishing AM back to his universe have to do with surviving multiversal destruction? and you also missed the most important part, which is spectre was amped, heavily.

how is imperiex surviving this? he doesn't have the feats to suggest that he can.

I am saying he survived his fight with the Anti-Monitor. You said he did not...

Imperiex made everything in the DCU. It was shown in 2 storelines..

operator616
^
1. he did survive the fight with AM but the fight didn't destroy the multiverse, thus he didn't tank a multiversal blast and there is no reason to believe that he can.

2. from what i know that's a flase claim, all that imperiex did was universal.

Endless Mike
Originally posted by operator616
when was that stated? if you dont have a scan at least tell me what issue is it.

http://i.imgur.com/xrvAAmq.jpg

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.