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Really?!? An actor...was the Mandarin, and don't give me that crap that Killian is Mandarin because he wasn't. I honestly liked Kingsley being the guy to play Mandarin although the idea of him NOT using magic was disappointing I still didn't think they'd just make Mandarin as an idea or decoy for Killian and Extremis. I dunno if other people thought this was a genius idea but it in my opinion it was an awful and idea. The movie itself was good, but that left a bad taste in my mouth.

I coulda posted this in the Iron Man 3 thread sure but I thought I'd make a seperate thread for it because...well because

Originally posted by steverules_2
The movie itself was good, but that left a bad taste in my mouth.



Same.

There's really no issue in having magic when you have people breathing fire. Even still I always imagined movie Mandarin's rings being technologically powered.

They coulda easily done that in the movie, something to do with some test weapons that Stark Industries tried but never got fully under way...see...right there, I just came up with a storyline

*Shrugs*

i liked the twist personally.

Like I said, some people will like it but it didn't showcase what the Mandarin can do really...people who don't read the comics don't realise what he's truly capable of

There's just no way you can have both Ironman 3 satisfying both Extremis and Mandarin stories for fans IMO. Focusing on one would certainly decrease the attention given to the other. In this case, if they went with the techno/magical sorcerer/scientist mandarin, the threat from extremis and AIM would have drastically decreased. The extremis would have probably ended up being some sort of technology Mandarin wants to covet or unleash but ends up being rather redundant cause that would either make him a)not a threat enough to stark by himself b) stupid for relying on that while he has rings that could easily put it to shame. They would've really pulled the extremis storyline to the side in that case.

While I really would've preferred the big bad villain Mandarin wielding powers to pose a severe threat to Tony cause my familiarity with the IM lore, the angle they took ain't that bad. At least the stories focus didn't drift and the reveal on Mandarin was entertaining.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Same.

There's really no issue in having magic when you have people breathing fire. Even still I always imagined movie Mandarin's rings being technologically powered.

Idk. "Magic" was already introduced with Thor and since this is the same universe having magic could easily work. Maybe he pulled a Red Skull and discovered some ancient Asgardian crap and harnessed it's power ala Red Skull.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
There's just no way you can have both Ironman 3 satisfying both Extremis and Mandarin stories for fans IMO.

In that case would have definitely preferred Mandarin. Seen as IM's control over the Mark 42 and other armours had nothing to do with Extremis anyway.

Originally posted by juggerman
Idk. "Magic" was already introduced with Thor and since this is the same universe having magic could easily work. Maybe he pulled a Red Skull and discovered some ancient Asgardian crap and harnessed it's power ala Red Skull.

Could have done it that way as well. Remember Movie Thor says Technology and Magic are related anyway.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Could have done it that way as well. Remember Movie Thor says Technology and Magic are related anyway.

Yeah that's what i was thinking plus it could tie in something we'd see in the next Thor or Avengers.

Yeah really not sure why they did the Mandarin thing the way they did. Seems like it was just to have one big Joke in the middle of the film. Which I didn't like tbh. I don't like Villains being a big joke. You can be funny in different ways. Like Joker in TDK. Very funny whilst very intimidating.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah really not sure why they did the Mandarin thing the way they did. Seems like it was just to have one big Joke in the middle of the film. Which I didn't like tbh. I don't like Villains being a big joke. You can be funny in different ways. Like Joker in TDK. Very funny whilst very intimidating.

Well they could have done that but might risk people will claiming him as a joker ripoff and besides, Mandarin's personality isn't the one for jokes. However I do prefer the main plot centered on him rather than the extremis plot and they could have have done just as good as a job. They went the other way of course but the attempt they did was fine so long as you dont expect too much IM lore accuraccy.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
They went the other way of course but the attempt they did was fine so long as you dont expect too much IM lore accuraccy.

Problem is it wasn't even close to being accurate (in terms of the villains.)

And the route they took was a big risk Imo, which many people are not going to like. In fact I've hardly seen anyone say they liked that part of the film.

I knew some twist was coming with Mandarin, and I was trying my best to stay out of stories and threads revealing what it was. I was wondering, since they seemed to be going all in on the outfit and everything. Having seen the movie yesterday...the twist was humourous and didn't bother me. Because the Mandarin is still at heart a Fu Manchu caricature, and so they went all the way with that only to reveal he's all show. No terrorist could be that much of a cartoon character and really be operating. In the comics the Mandarin still doesn't even have a name, yet runs a criminal business empire of his own? He IS comic booky. The reason they haven't been able to put him in the movies yet is because they hadn't found a way to do him realistically, leaving behind the cliche that he is. So they inverted it, going all in only to reveal him as an empty shell. I think this just leaves opportunity in a future film, for someone more realistic to eventually get the Ten Rings to use against Tony. Think they are sitting in the weapons vault in Asgard...?

Originally posted by roughrider
I knew some twist was coming with Mandarin, and I was trying my best to stay out of stories and threads revealing what it was. I was wondering, since they seemed to be going all in on the outfit and everything. Having seen the movie yesterday...the twist was humourous and didn't bother me. Because the Mandarin is still at heart a Fu Manchu caricature, and so they went all the way with that only to reveal he's all show. No terrorist could be that much of a cartoon character and really be operating. In the comics the Mandarin still doesn't even have a name, yet runs a criminal business empire of his own? He IS comic booky. The reason they haven't been able to put him in the movies yet is because they hadn't found a way to do him realistically, leaving behind the cliche that he is. So they inverted it, going all in only to reveal him as an empty shell. I think this just leaves opportunity in a future film, for someone more realistic to eventually get the Ten Rings to use against Tony. Think they are sitting in the weapons vault in Asgard...?

I disagree though. Up to the point of reveal, Mandarin was a force to be reckoned with. He bombed multiple sites on American soil, hacked into U.S. news feds and the presidents phone line, killed a guy without remorse, had Killian working for him, and blew up Tony's mansion after be verbally threatened. I was expecting an all out war between the two then it turned into a joke and became another I'm pissed off at Tony Stark revenge story. Yet another mad scientist/business man who wants to get back at Tony. Boring.

Seems like Marvel and Black doesn't have the balls to do Mandarin justice because they were afraid of stereotypes. So what? Wasn't the Ten Ring terrorist group Middle Easterners?

I am as big as a Ironman fan as one can get.
I read the original comics at the age of 4.
And witnessed the Mandarin throughout the years.

And this choice was fine by me. I couldn't imagine a man with 10 rings of incredible power not destroying this version of Ironman. I was worried.

When a friend told me all the spoilers I was as shocked as you all were.
I wanted an epic Mandarin.

But in the end when I watched the film I realized that they made the right choice. The Mandarin was always a mess to begin with.
The Modern representation of the character was shown to be a madman with overwhelming power and didn't really know how to use it.
I can't blame the scriptwriters for heading down their path.

I want my other posters to grow up a little. And realize that a man with rings that can do what they do should defeat even the best of comic heroes.

They made the best choice in regards to such an insane and erratic character. And the Movies will always be separate from the comic medium for there isn't time to establish such an insane character as the comicbook version of the Mandarin.

Originally posted by the ninjak
I am as big as a Ironman fan as one can get.
I read the original comics at the age of 4.
And witnessed the Mandarin throughout the years.

And this choice was fine by me. I couldn't imagine a man with 10 rings of incredible power not destroying this version of Ironman. I was worried.

When a friend told me all the spoilers I was as shocked as you all were.
I wanted an epic Mandarin.

But in the end when I watched the film I realized that they made the right choice. The Mandarin was always a mess to begin with.
The Modern representation of the character was shown to be a madman with overwhelming power and didn't really know how to use it.
I can't blame the scriptwriters for heading down their path.

I want my other posters to grow up a little. And realize that a man with rings that can do what they do should defeat even the best of comic heroes.

They made the best choice in regards to such an insane and erratic character. And the Movies will always be separate from the comic medium for there isn't time to establish such an insane character as the comicbook version of the Mandarin.

But they didn't even need to give him power rings. The rings can be symbolic. I was fine with the mastermind who hates America that accidentally harmed IM's friend and IM wanting vengeance. It would be like watching a Ras/Joker type burning America down with IM and all his tech having a hard time finding the shadowy figure. It was heading in that direction until the reveal then it was hey another pissed off businessman wants Tony's head. Lol. They had a badass mofo Kingsley's Mandarin who was going to teach Stark and America a lesson, but no no, Mandarin is too hard to portray so we'll have another revenge story.

The mofo would have been more than enough without rings. He doesn't have to fight IM. They can just have his Extremis henchmen do the job of tearing the armor off and then Mandarin wrecks Tony in hand to hand battle in the final fight.

What could have been if Marvel weren't such pussies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQhEqKAbp6w&feature=youtu.be

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
I disagree though. Up to the point of reveal, Mandarin was a force to be reckoned with. He bombed multiple sites on American soil, hacked into U.S. news feds and the presidents phone line, killed a guy without remorse, had Killian working for him, and blew up Tony's mansion after be verbally threatened. I was expecting an all out war between the two then it turned into a joke and became another I'm pissed off at Tony Stark revenge story. Yet another mad scientist/business man who wants to get back at Tony. Boring.

Seems like Marvel and Black doesn't have the balls to do Mandarin justice because they were afraid of stereotypes. So what? Wasn't the Ten Ring terrorist group Middle Easterners?

It is tricky, since China is a huge market for movies like this one. They would have had to be explicit that Mandarin's history was of a Chinese national who stood against the revolution, so China's government wouldn't see him as a yellowface villain representing China as a whole.

There's some parallels here between this and The Dark Knight Rises from last year. I was mildly disappointed to find Bane wasn't the mastermind in charge after all; it felt like it took some edge off the final confrontation, seeing as Bruce was willing himself out of that prison the same way he thought Bane did (and only after that, could he defeat him.) So I understand a bit.

Right now, introducing any magic elements in the Marvel Cinematic Universe is a challenge. You would have to have Thor & Asgard involved in the story, bringing the worlds of science and magic (yes yes, one and the same in Asgard.) Because it worked in Thor, it worked in Captain America. You can't just have the Mandarin as a man who achieved immortality through self will and concentrating his chi; and has also been sitting on ten 'magic' rings of power all this time and not used them already to further his goals. Comic book logic and movie logic aren't the same.

Now perhaps they could have gone and just made him a triad kingpin with some access to tech and given him a name other than Mandarin - that's more realistic. But I'm sure fans would have complained about that, too.

i had no problem with the reveal.. it actually fit into the story that was told

Originally posted by roughrider
It is tricky, since China is a huge market for movies like this one. They would have had to be explicit that Mandarin's history was of a Chinese national who stood against the revolution, so China's government wouldn't see him as a yellowface villain representing China as a whole.

There's some parallels here between this and The Dark Knight Rises from last year. I was mildly disappointed to find Bane wasn't the mastermind in charge after all; it felt like it took some edge off the final confrontation, seeing as Bruce was willing himself out of that prison the same way he thought Bane did (and only after that, could he defeat him.) So I understand a bit.

Right now, introducing any magic elements in the Marvel Cinematic Universe is a challenge. You would have to have Thor & Asgard involved in the story, bringing the worlds of science and magic (yes yes, one and the same in Asgard.) Because it worked in Thor, it worked in Captain America. You can't just have the Mandarin as a man who achieved immortality through self will and concentrating his chi; and has also been sitting on ten 'magic' rings of power all this time and not used them already to further his goals. Comic book logic and movie logic aren't the same.

Now perhaps they could have gone and just made him a triad kingpin with some access to tech and given him a name other than Mandarin - that's more realistic. But I'm sure fans would have complained about that, too.

From the portrayal in the trailer and movie up to the reveal, his 10 rings were merely symbolic and he was like a Bin Laden type shadowy villain. They just need to play up his mix parentage and that he's a villain who just happens to be part Chinese. That his attacks are global and even the Chinese government wanted his head. Mandarin was a Bin Laden/Ra's Al Ghul and I was fine with that. His attacks and terrorist group made him a threat even without mystical rings. Instead of what the trailer and following through on the build up, we get a cop out with another revenge story.

So should we assume Killian has been behind everything from the first movie? That the Ten Rings terrorist organization is an offshoot of A.I.M.? Or will a later reveal in future films find it's Hydra?

Originally posted by roughrider
So should we assume Killian has been behind everything from the first movie? That the Ten Rings terrorist organization is an offshoot of A.I.M.? Or will a later reveal in future films find it's Hydra?

Maybe Killian just took the 10 Rings' name and tied it with his Mandarin. At first, i thought Killian and AIM were weapons dealer that worked/supplied Mandarin and his terrorist organization who funded Killian's research until the Trevor reveal. It would've made the MU even more interesting with Killian, Mandarin, AIM, 10 Rings, and Hydra as credible threats. SHIELD would have some major enemies to deal with then.

Killian does not fit the antagonist role, simple.

He's one of the worst superhero movie villian I've seen.

I reakon they can still use the real mandarin since this one that we've seen is something A.I.M cooked up to make some money.

Originally posted by Kazenji
I reakon they can still use the real mandarin since this one that we've seen is something A.I.M cooked up to make some money.

Hopefully they will. I was hyped up after seeing the trailer with Tony turning on his "imma kill that son-a-ma-*****" and Mandarin going "do you want an empty life or a meaningful death?" A douchebag tycoon vs a douchebag terrorist was all I hoped for to conclude the last of the trilogy.

I don't see the problem with having 10 power rings when we have guys breathing fire.

The movie version could have had the power rings technology based, needing the arc reactor to power them maybe?

Anyway f*** them. It's too late now. What's done is done.

Why can't it be the alien rings?

we can accept an alien invasion with Avengers and Norse gods but not that.

Yeah, that's what I don't get? Isn't his rings alien tech anyways but people keep saying it's magic?


Let's just hope they don't decide to make another twist and reveal Ultron to be another corporate guy seeking vengeance.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I don't see the problem with having 10 power rings when we have guys breathing fire.




Originally posted by Kazenji
Why can't it be the alien rings?

we can accept an alien invasion with Avengers and Norse gods but not that.



These were my problems with the movie as well.
You have fire breathing, Limbs regrowing instantly, falling 200+ ft no side effects.

But having magic, alien tech or advanced human tech (all of which have been seen in the Marvel Movieverse) is too far fetched.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing

Let's just hope they don't decide to make another twist and reveal Ultron to be another corporate guy seeking vengeance.
I swear if they do Ultron (which they probably will, with an Ant man movie coming up) they better not phuck him up. I'll be so mad, if they ruin Ultron the same way they did Mandarin.

Good article here, on why this twist on the Mandarin works so well.

http://www.movies.com/movie-news/why-39iron-man-33939s-mandarin-best-comic-book-movie-villain-all-time/12126

Originally posted by armedforbattle






These were my problems with the movie as well.
You have fire breathing, Limbs regrowing instantly, falling 200+ ft no side effects.

But having magic, alien tech or advanced human tech (all of which have been seen in the Marvel Movieverse) is too far fetched.

I think Shane Black just hates the Mandarin. IM 3 has a lot of similarities to The Dark Knight Rises.

There's a lot of similarities that's for sure. Not sure if this was by accident or some was adapted into IM3 story line with Black & Marvel thinking they could be it better.
http://moviehodgepodge.com/2013/05/05/iron-man-3-a-glitzy-quicker-version-of-the-dark-knight-rises/

http://comicbook.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/iron-man-3-the-dark-knight-rises-broken-masks.jpg
http://comicbook.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/iron-man-3-dark-knight-rises-battered-and-bruised.jpg
http://comicbook.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/iron-man-3-dark-knigh-rises-plane-crash.jpg

When I was watching IM3 not once did I think any of it was like TDKR, and as for the pictures why don't you isn't Batmans broken mask next to spider-mans ripped mask or other heroes who have ended up with a broken/ripped mask? Or Bruce Waynes beat up face next to other heroes beat up faces? And the plane picture, those people in Iron Man 3 are falling out of a plane that just had a hole blown in it...TDKR plane picture is people dropping out of a plane to hijack another plane

Originally posted by armedforbattle






These were my problems with the movie as well.
You have fire breathing, Limbs regrowing instantly, falling 200+ ft no side effects.

But having magic, alien tech or advanced human tech (all of which have been seen in the Marvel Movieverse) is too far fetched.

You have to have Thor & Asgard involved, to sell magic tech in the MCU right now. That's why Captain America also worked, because Thor provided the way for it. You want to have a story where some alien tech randomly drops from the sky - look how well that worked with Spider Man 3, with the symbiote. It felt forced and artificial. Some future Thor or Avengers storyline where weapons like the Ten Rings get released from the weapons vault and some rival of Tony Stark gets their hands on it...that's more natural, organic storytelling.

Originally posted by roughrider
You have to have Thor & Asgard involved, to sell magic tech in the MCU right now. That's why Captain America also worked, because Thor provided the way for it. You want to have a story where some alien tech randomly drops from the sky - look how well that worked with Spider Man 3, with the symbiote. It felt forced and artificial. Some future Thor or Avengers storyline where weapons like the Ten Rings get released from the weapons vault and some rival of Tony Stark gets their hands on it...that's more natural, organic storytelling.

Alien tech would work though since the Tesseract seemed more cosmic than magic. But either way, alien tech would be plausible since like you said something like magic/science was already introduced. Extremis itself didn't seem forced either and it was science based. SM 3 was terrible because there was no development for it and too villains involved. Green Goblin Jr, Sandman. and Venom in one movie was over doing.

I'm suprised they even released the movie with the Extremis bombs after what happened at boston, usually movies are held back because of stuff like that.

Fans here can argue all they want about how the Mandarin has been disrespected, that it's unfitting since he's supposed to be Tony's greatest enemy...but seriously, go back to the comics. What was the most famous storyline where the Mandarin was the heavy?

Think back over the past few decades of famous Iron Man storylines: Demon In A Bottle, the Obadiah Stane/Iron Monger arc (which lasted three years), Armor Wars, Extremis, Civil War, World War Hulk, the Matt Fraction years (World's Most Wanted, Stark Resilient) - the Mandarin doesn't figure in those at all. Mot of the time, Tony's greatest enemy is himself(alcoholism, being trapped by his politics and obligations as a company C.E.O.) or half the hero community because his futurist ideas put him in conflict with their more idealistic approach. Truth is, Mandarin was a foil because of the Communist paranoia and turmoil of the 1960's, but that's faded away ever since China and the USA became economic & political partners 40 years ago. It's why Crimson Dynamo and Titanium Man have become less relevant too, after 20+ years of no more Cold War. Stark is a tech-based hero and it's fitting that's who his primary rivals should be. Justin Hammer, Obadiah Stane and their heirs have done more to harass Tony in the comics than the Mandarin has done in decades.

Originally posted by roughrider
Fans here can argue all they want about how the Mandarin has been disrespected, that it's unfitting since he's supposed to be Tony's greatest enemy...but seriously, go back to the comics. What was the most famous storyline where the Mandarin was the heavy?



It's not that, it's just building him up like that, and then making a joke out of it.

It wasn't just comic book fans who thought that was a very strange turn for the film. But just from an entertainment point of view, it was a pointless twist.

i felt cheated, that's what.. you build this character up sooo good, get an oscar winner to play him, get all the terrifying aspects of a villain right, then turn him into a joke..

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
It's not that, it's just building him up like that, and then making a joke out of it.

It wasn't just comic book fans who thought that was a very strange turn for the film. But just from an entertainment point of view, it was a pointless twist.

The twist is that he's an empty shell, a face that can be an easy target with all the over the top pageantry that goes with him. Tony was wondering that early on: why all the eclectic pageantry we're seeing?...Because it just makes him that much bigger of a distraction and the media swallows it whole. Meanwhile, the real villain is a tall blond guy in a suit with a charming, trusting smile. The Mandarin was right when he says "You'll never see me coming" - because no one had noticed Killian moving & orchestrating things for 10+ years.

If they had played Mandarin straight to the end, with everything we had seen to that point, then the non-hardcore fans would just have thought of him as Marvel's attempt to outdo the Joker from TDK. I think now that the old Mandarin cliche of the 1960's is out of the way, it leaves it open for future Shared Marvel Universe films to do him in a more modern way & surprising way.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
It's not that, it's just building him up like that, and then making a joke out of it.

It wasn't just comic book fans who thought that was a very strange turn for the film. But just from an entertainment point of view, it was a pointless twist.

Same here, but do we really expect Ben Kingsly to pull off some MA moves like Mandarin does? It might be just as bad.

i think fans, including me, expected so much of the mandarin.. i mean, the hype was outrageous.. the posters, the tv spots, the casting.. he's the head of a terror organization, i don't think he needs to pull off some ridiculous MA moves.. mandarin could've been using killian to do stuff, not the other way around.. my suspension of disbelief is in full swing here, do something else.. magic, aliens, high tech stuff.. something..

though i don't think that it is a bad movie, it's just a bad wist for the mandarin..

Originally posted by Golgo13
Same here, but do we really expect Ben Kingsly to pull off some MA moves like Mandarin does? It might be just as bad.

Nah, he could just do a few Kung Fu or Tae Kwan Do moves and that be enough to beat up Stark. They could've set up a scene where Iron's armor is destroyed taking out Killian only for Tony to face the Mandarin. Stark doesn't have any H2H skills so it's conceivable that Kingsley Mandarin would wreck him in a fight. It ends with Stark pulling out that little gizmo, that he gave the kid, to blind Mandarin and knock him out. SHIELD arrives and detains Mandarin in the Vault. Ending scene has Baron Zemo showing up to recruit A.I.M. and the Ten Rings to join HYDRA.

I thought it was brilliant, but I thought the Mandarin was lame anyway.