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Even before going sun-dip in that arc Mongul II taught him to remove his mental blocks and he was casually FTL and cutting moons in half. After sun-dip he effortlessly pushes War World at untold velocities.

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/4487/340xj.gif

----

On topic, Superman baring some wildly OOC tactics from Thor/Loki.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
On topic, Superman baring some wildly OOC tactics from Thor/Loki.

Such as?

Originally posted by Dolos
Such as?

BFRing Superman into a red sun or opening a portal to a red sun as they stay intangible/invisible/otherwise undetectable by Superman's senses.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
BFRing Superman into a red sun or opening a portal to a red sun as they stay intangible/invisible/otherwise undetectable by Superman's senses.

I don't think that would help them before a speedblitz.

Red solar energy and magic don't garantee a win over his resilience, especially not when the stakes are high, he's removed mental blocks, and is uber-powered up from the sun-dip.

Loki bfr's him to another dimension.

Team wins easily

Originally posted by Dolos
I don't think that would help them before a speedblitz.

Red solar energy and magic don't garantee a win over his resilience, especially not when the stakes are high, he's removed mental blocks, and is uber-powered up from the sun-dip.

Considering their respective feats, I doubt a speedblitz would end them before they made their counter attack, which is, as I said, not something they'd probably do.

Never said it does, but both red solar energy and magic have a storied history of making him less formidable than normal.

Originally posted by Dolos
I don't think that would help them before a speedblitz.

Red solar energy and magic don't garantee a win over his resilience, especially not when the stakes are high, he's removed mental blocks, and is uber-powered up from the sun-dip.

Superman won't blitz from the get-go.

Superman dimension hops back using his massively enhanced speed with elevated awareness of team's capabilities. Now he blitzes team before information is processed within their magically enhanced senses.

Must be fun writing fanfics.

Originally posted by Dolos
Superman dimension hops back using his massively enhanced speed with elevated awareness of team's capabilities. Now he blitzes team before information is processed within their magically enhanced senses.

If Thor or Loki choose to BFR Superman, especially if Loki decides to muck with Superman's senses, he's not coming back to confront them in time before it counts as a loss.

Originally posted by curryman
Must be fun writing fanfics.

Speedblitz is considered BFR, not fanfic.

An enhanced Superman certainly has that kind of speed. If anyone argues that it's futile. He was already close to the Flash, now he'd rival and surpass the Flash's casual speed by a vast amount.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If Thor or Loki choose to BFR Superman, especially if Loki decides to muck with Superman's senses, he's not coming back to confront them in time before it counts as a loss.

What if Superman decides to BFR with a speedblitz at the same time?

Both BFRing, team still isn't fast enough.

Originally posted by Dolos
Speedblitz is considered BFR, not fanfic.

An enhanced Superman certainly has that kind of speed. If anyone argues that it's futile. He was already close to the Flash, now he'd rival and surpass the Flash's casual speed by a vast amount. ...





please close this PR

Originally posted by Dolos
Speedblitz is considered BFR, not fanfic.

An enhanced Superman certainly has that kind of speed. If anyone argues that it's futile. He was already close to the Flash, now he'd rival and surpass the Flash's casual speed by a vast amount.

It's not considered BFR. It's a tactic.

He's not faster than the Flash even with the OWAW buff. Not that he needs to be anyways.

Originally posted by Dolos
What if Superman decides to BFR with a speedblitz at the same time?

Both BFRing, team still isn't fast enough.

How could he BFR something he can't detect, let alone touch?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
...





please close this PR

I was going to close this as spite, but then Jake voted for Superman, and I became curious.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I was going to close this as spite, but then Jake voted for Superman, and I became curious.

Contrary to what some people may think, I'm not a ragingly biased "Thorbag", not do I decide to write my own personal fan fics and argue for people however it strikes my fancy, regardless of their averages and personalities.

That said, if Loki and Thor were focused on BFR and "stealth" like tactics, they can certainly pull a victory.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Contrary to what some people may think, I'm not a ragingly biased "Thorbag", not do I decide to write my own personal fan fics and argue for people however it strikes my fancy, regardless of their averages and personalities.

That said, if Loki and Thor were focused on BFR and "stealth" like tactics, they can certainly pull a victory.

I wasn't accusing you of anything, just to be clear. My first instinct was to vote for Thor/Loki, so for you to vote Superman just surprised me.

Loki turns Thor into living kryptonite

/fanfiction

Originally posted by -Pr-
I wasn't accusing you of anything, just to be clear. My first instinct was to vote for Thor/Loki, so for you to vote Superman just surprised me.

Oh, I know that.

Personally, I think OWAW Sundipped Superman was more powerful than the duo combined and if they fight conventionally (punching, hammer swings/throws, blasts, etc), they'll lose.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I wasn't accusing you of anything, just to be clear. My first instinct was to vote for Thor/Loki, so for you to vote Superman just surprised me.

Really? I still think this is spite

Unless Thor/Loki goes invis-intangible right off the bat then they're in big trouble. If they do then I don't see how he'll touch them but if they don't then he'll take a 10/10 imo.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Oh, I know that.

Personally, I think OWAW Sundipped Superman was more powerful than the duo combined and if they fight conventionally (punching, hammer swings/throws, blasts, etc), they'll lose.

Oh okay. That I could agree with.

Originally posted by curryman
Really? I still think this is spite

Unless Thor/Loki goes invis-intangible right off the bat then they're in big trouble. If they do then I don't see how he'll touch them but if they don't then he'll take a 10/10 imo.

lol, fair enough.

Superman can become invisible and intangible himself, just in post-crisis continuity.

Not that that effects him, nor would Loki's power in dimension hoping Superman supersede his own ability to hop back.

It seems we're at an impasse in the BFR department.

This might be the tie-breaker, what if Loki cannot become intangible before speedblitz kill, if he's not fast enough to react against an >/=Wally West caliber Speedster??

How would Superman hop back?

Originally posted by -Pr-
How would Superman hop back?

Same way he breached infinity and almost entered heaven looking for a dimension hoped Supergirl.

He found her.

Originally posted by Dolos
Same way he breached infinity and almost entered heaven looking for a dimension hoped Supergirl.

He found her.

refresh my memory please?

Originally posted by -Pr-
refresh my memory please?


Ah, good thing I keep tabs on old versus debates.

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/3388/277699-dccp29_05infinity_super.jpg

I think OWAW sun-dip is easily capable of replicating this feat. Moving planets is, after all, equally easy for him.

Superman's intangibility/invisibility is a byproduct of his speed. He's still physically present. With Loki's, it's the result of magic, the likes of which has made him almost completely undetectable by Mephisto in his own realm (who is basically omnipotent) as well as Odin in Asgard, whose sense of awareness is cosmic in scale. This is without factoring in actual illusions which can trick these beings with such highly attuned cosmic senses as well as super senses in general such as Heimdall (who can see an ant crawling on the Great Wall of China from Asgard among other things).

Originally posted by Dolos
Ah, good thing I keep tabs on old versus debates.

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/3388/277699-dccp29_05infinity_super.jpg

I think OWAW sun-dip is easily capable of replicating this feat. Moving planets is, after all, equally easy for him.

Is this Post-Crisis?

I don't think it is.

Superman stomps. Lol@ this thread.

Clearly it's not, nor is it any indicator that Superman would somehow find his way back.

Just like him being able to temporarily go intangible is no way of proving that he can somehow detect Loki when high-end skyfathers can't.

This isn't the instance where Superman nearly destroys creation before Spectre shows up because he was flying too fast, is it?

Assuming it is post-crisis and canon, okay, that's a decent feat. But to my knowledge, Superman doesn't have the ability to spontaneously access other dimensions with his speed under his own power outside of rare circumstances. And those rare circumstances would pale in comparison to all the times Thor has BFR'd people, including those who do have teleportation abilities.

Originally posted by curryman
Clearly it's not, nor is it any indicator that Superman would somehow find his way back.

Just like him being able to temporarily go intangible is no way of proving that he can somehow detect Loki when high-end skyfathers can't.

He has displayed cosmic senses, at such amped states he very well could find Loki from another cosmos.

Originally posted by Dolos
He has displayed cosmic senses, at such amped states he very well could find Loki from another cosmos.

His senses aren't better than Odin's and Mephisto's in their own realms.

If neither of those two can reliably find Loki when he doesn't want to be found, he's not going to, let alone finding Loki from another cosmos.

Originally posted by Dolos
He has displayed cosmic senses, at such amped states he very well could find Loki from another cosmos.

Based on what? absolutely nothing.

You ignored the bit about Loki being undetectable to people with far stronger cosmic senses than Superman. Nor is cosmic sense a ****ing metal-detector

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
But to my knowledge, Superman doesn't have the ability to spontaneously access other dimensions with his speed under his own power

http://comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/27306/DARKSEID_source_wall_052911.jpg

Amped states to compound that. Phenomenally amped, just by removing mental blocks, now add sun-dip power up to the equation.

Yeah, no. His power dwarfs Thor and Loki combined, even via raw Asgardian energy access.

Shoving Darkseid in to the source wall doesn't prove that he could find Loki in other dimensions, or that he could travel between them.

Not to mention that Loki's powers are magic-based.

Loki can't run, Loki can't hide.

Super intelligence is also apart of Superman's set, which would be amped here. Loki can't outsmart him. In a BFR Superman can easily avoid any mystical based attack by being one step ahead. Loki is so outclassed speed-wise.

Loki needs to lock onto Superman to teleport him. Loki and Thor are taken to the Source Wall before they can see him in an invisible intangible state.

His raw power dwarfs theirs, his speed puts him in a different realm.

Originally posted by Dolos
http://comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/27306/DARKSEID_source_wall_052911.jpg

Amped states to compound that. Phenomenally amped, just by removing mental blocks, now add sun-dip power up to the equation.

Yeah, no. His power dwarfs Thor and Loki combined, even via raw Asgardian energy access.

Flying to the Source Wall =/= being able to leave, say, Jotunheim or Niffleheim or some barren void and get back to the battlefield in time before it's considering a BFR loss.

Originally posted by Dolos
Loki can't run, Loki can't hide.

Super intelligence is also apart of Superman's set, which would be amped here. Loki can't outsmart him. In a BFR Superman can easily avoid any mystical based attack by being one step ahead. Loki is so outclassed speed-wise.

He can do both as evidenced by feats.

Superman being smart doesn't mean he'll find or detect Loki when he doesn't want to be found. Unless you can prove Superman's senses trump those of skyfathers in the seat of their power, there's nothing to prove that Superman will detect Loki through his spells.

And that's without Loki trolling him through illusions, removing sound, etc.

Originally posted by Dolos
Loki can't run, Loki can't hide.

Super intelligence is also apart of Superman's set, which would be amped here. Loki can't outsmart him. In a BFR Superman can easily avoid any mystical based attack by being one step ahead. Loki is so outclassed speed-wise.

Loki needs to lock onto Superman to teleport him. Loki and Thor are taken to the Source Wall before they can see him in an invisible intangible state.

His raw power dwarfs theirs, his speed puts him in a different realm.

I just realised; you're to Superman what CBC is to Adam, and Carver is to Hulk.

Welcome to KMC.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Flying to the Source Wall =/= being able to leave, say, Jotunheim or Niffleheim or some barren void and get back to the battlefield in time before it's considering a BFR loss.

If it takes him a hundred years, assuming Loki is quick enough to lock on to him, which he's not, Superman will get out and he will kill Loki and his brother effortlessly.

This is very sad now

Originally posted by -Pr-
I just realised; you're to Superman what CBC is to Adam, and Carver is to Hulk.

Welcome to KMC.

By that reasoning so is abhilegend and yet he also provides a plentiful wealth of scans...

Is it possible you're not biased atm?

Originally posted by Dolos
If it takes him a hundred years, assuming Loki is quick enough to lock on to him, which he's not, Superman will get out and he will kill Loki and his brother effortlessly.

In a hundred years time, he would have lost the fight as Thor and Loki move on with their lives.

Originally posted by Dolos
By that reasoning so is abhilegend and yet he also provides a plentiful wealth of scans...

Is it possible you're not biased atm?

You've overthrown Abhi, which is a feat in of itself.

Originally posted by Dolos
By that reasoning so is abhilegend and yet he also provides a plentiful wealth of scans...

Is it possible you're not biased atm?

How-so?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You've overthrown Abhi, which is a feat in of itself.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
In a hundred years time, he would have lost the fight as Thor and Loki move on with their lives.

That's what they think. Come a hundred years they'd be dead before they'd have time to fear.


Yet that is irrelevant, because Loki will never lock on to Superman before he's shoved through a couple of planets at FTL speeds and crushed before he can put up a viable defense to that with his magic.

Originally posted by Dolos
That's what they think. Come a hundred years they'd be dead before they'd have time to fear.


Yet that is irrelevant, because Loki will never lock on to Superman before he's shoved through a couple of planets at FTL speeds and crushed before he can put up a viable defense to that with his magic. It'd be funny if it wasn't so cringeworthy

Originally posted by Dolos
That's what they think. Come a hundred years they'd be dead before they'd have time to fear.


Yet that is irrelevant, because Loki will never lock on to Superman before he's shoved through a couple of planets at FTL speeds and crushed before he can put up a viable defense to that with his magic.

Superman can't see him.

Originally posted by Dolos
That's what they think. Come a hundred years they'd be dead before they'd have time to fear.


Yet that is irrelevant, because Loki will never lock on to Superman before he's shoved through a couple of planets at FTL speeds and crushed.

In a hundred years time, Thor will probably be at Odin's level if not above it.

Thor would be doing the BFRing, which can be done on a massive scope. No "targeting" required. Also, Superman won't be able to detect Loki and Thor in the first place.

Originally posted by curryman
Superman can't see him.

BEFORE he can put up a defense.

Originally posted by Dolos
BEFORE he can put up a defense.

Superman won't be able to beat both of them before that happens. Not when they've dealt with skyfathers and beyond and endured.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
No "targeting" required.

He can teleport something that he can't see or sense?



They're not normally intangible, that's a spell Loki has to 'put up'. He doesn't have time here.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Superman won't be able to beat both of them before that happens. Not when they've dealt with skyfathers and beyond and endured.

Yes, Skyfathers who just stand there because they can win, as opposed to endure your duo.

Originally posted by Dolos
He can teleport something that he can't see or sense.



They're not normally intangible, that's a spell Loki has to 'put up'. He doesn't have time here.

He has many methods of BFR. One of which is just opening up a portal and watching as it sucks up the intended target.

They both have plenty of durability feats and defenses to weather an alpha strike from Superman before doing that.

Originally posted by Dolos
Yes, Skyfathers who just stand there because they can win, as opposed to endure your duo.

Skyfathers actively trying to defeat or kill them, which is what Superman will be doing here.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He has many methods of BFR. One of which is just opening up a portal and watching as it sucks up the intended target.

They both have plenty of durability feats and defenses to weather an alpha strike from Superman before doing that.

It wouldn't be defenses, it would be durability.

Imagine SOUL-FIRE Darkseid-splitting infinite mass punch, multiplied.

They're split.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Skyfathers actively trying to defeat or kill them, which is what Superman will be doing here.

But not speedblitz them.

Superman has the striking power at this level to one-shot them, and the speed to do so before either can put up a defense or BFR him.

Originally posted by Dolos
It wouldn't defenses, it would be durability.

Imagine Darkseid-splitting infinite mass punch, multiplied.

Defenses would come into play as well as natural durability. Shields, blocking with Mjolnir, etc. And Superman won't be able to destroy them before they go "poof", at which point the match is completely dictated at their pace.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Defenses would come into play as well as natural durability. Shields, blocking with Mjolnir, etc. And Superman won't be able to destroy them before they go "poof", at which point the match is completely dictated at their pace.

Reaction time feats please.

Originally posted by Dolos
But not speedblitz them.

Superman has the striking power at this level to one-shot them, and the speed to do so before either can put up a defense or BFR him.

Considering the stuff that hasn't historically one shot them at their best, I doubt Superman could one shot them or beat them before they could do their thing.

----

And on a side note, I find it curious that you would make a thread that you consider to be so horribly one sided in favor of Superman in the first place considering you feel that Superman is far and away more powerful than their Asgardian power combined.

Super man with all that power eventually says f it. N flies beyond speed on light n pulls there heads off.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Considering the stuff that hasn't historically one shot them at their best, I doubt Superman could do one shot them or beat them before they could do their thing.

Speed>their reaction times + damage capability>their durability = win.

Even if a Skyfather gave them time to defend themselves.

Superman isn't one-shotting Thor or Loki.

Come on.

Originally posted by Dolos
Speed>their reaction times + damage capability>their durability = win.

Even if a Skyfather gave them time to defend themselves.

Skyfathers repeatedly blasting them = giving them time to defend themselves?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Considering the stuff that hasn't historically one shot them at their best, I doubt Superman could one shot them or beat them before they could do their thing.

----

And on a side note, I find it curious that you would make a thread that you consider to be so horribly one sided in favor of Superman in the first place considering you feel that Superman is far and away more powerful than their Asgardian power combined.

Because you're still arguing their versatility can overcome his power in an out-of-character full potential 'bfr' attack setting.

Originally posted by Dolos
Because you're still arguing their versatility can overcome his power in an out-character full potential attack setting.

It can.

I already said, in character, Superman would clearly win.

But you, apparently, think this thread is practically spite. So it raises the question: why purposefully make a spite thread in which you, the OP, clearly feel that the other team has no chance?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Skyfathers repeatedly blasting them = giving them time to defend themselves?

Yeah, a blast might not be as fast as Superman? lol. They were obviously able to react to such things.

And if they could tank a blast that couldn't hurt Darkseid without defenses, than that's PIS or CIS or a Peak-End Feat that's a one time thing and can't really be used. Especially considering that Darkseid is in a higher tier than them. Not to mention SOULFIRE Darkseid.

Originally posted by Dolos
Yeah, a blast might not be as fast as Superman? lol. They were obviously able to react to such things.

And if they could tank a blast that couldn't hurt Darkseid without defenses, than that's PIS or CIS or a Peak-End Feat that's a one time thing and can't really be used. Especially considering that Darkseid is in a higher tier than them. Not to mention SOULFIRE Darkseid.

So the higher end feats of Thor or Loki don't count, but all of Superman's does - including non-canon sources?

Makes sense.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It can.

I already said, in character, Superman would clearly win.

But you, apparently, think this thread is practically spite. So it raises the question: why purposefully make a spite thread in which you, the OP, clearly feel that the other team has no chance?

I'm attempting to bring forth the proposition that perhaps this dynamic duo would fail against the likes of Superman no matter what.

Do they have the straight durability to tank his IMP? Do you think they have the reaction times to react to a marginally FTL IMP right off the bat?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So the higher end feats of Thor or Loki don't count, but all of Superman's does - including non-canon sources?

Makes sense.

I've already conceded to the unknown of Sun-dip's ability to dimension hop. I only ever suggested it was likely.

Originally posted by Dolos
I'm attempting to bring forth the proposition that perhaps this dynamic duo would fail against the likes of Superman no matter what.

Do they have the straight durability to tank his IMP? Do you think they have the reaction times to react to a marginally FTL IMP right off the bat?

You're claiming he would one-shot both before they could react.

How is this not spite in your head?

Thor one shots Superman with a Godblast while he has a shield up that withstood Galactus attacks

Originally posted by curryman
You're claiming he would one-shot both before they could react.

How is this not spite in your head?

If he chose to BFR. If none of them BFR, I still think he'd win.

How is a presented argument spite?

Originally posted by Dolos
I'm attempting to bring forth the proposition that perhaps this dynamic duo would fail against the like of Superman.

Do they have the straight durability to tank his IMP? Do you think they have the reaction times to react to a marginally FTL IMP right off the bat?

"Perhaps" they'd fail? You're arguing that they have no chance whatsoever and wouldn't be able to defend themselves before being killed or KO'd by Superman.

Depends what you mean by "tank". They'd feel his attacks, definitely, but given their feats, he wouldn't be able to take them out before they mustered a defense or attacked him. Given their characters, it would likely be fairly straight forward, in which case they'd lose.

But, if Loki did cast his spells in the manner I threw out, there's not much Superman could do.

Originally posted by Dolos
If he chose to BFR. If none of them BFR, I still think he'd win.

How is a presented argument spite?

You don't understand what BFR means.

Nor do you know what a spite-thread is apparently.

Go read up on the rules.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
"Perhaps" they'd fail? You're arguing that they have no chance whatsoever and wouldn't be able to defend themselves before being killed or KO'd by Superman.

An attack that can break Soulfire Darkseid in half should be sufficient enough to break Loki and Thor in half.

The only thing you have going for you is that we don't know his full speed. And his ability to hit two of these before FTL reactions kick in. How FTL are their reactions, we know OWAW was many times FTL before the Sun-dip.

That's the extent of my argument.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman isn't one-shotting Thor or Loki.

Come on.

Why couldn't he???

Now I know you're underestimating his dc at these levels.

They're too durable, and he's not at all likely to use an IMP before they could get their defences up.

Superman should win, having said that.

I don't think pc feats apply to post crisis superman, unless specifically retcon into post continuity.

Superman could dimensional hop and he has maybe like 3 to 5 showings that SUGEST he could do it via speed, however the scan presented applies to pre crisis earh one superman not post crisis superman.

Also OWAW SM had the tendency of blitzing a lot and use multi power attacks.

But I would not try to present evidence of another incarnation of superman and try to apply it to a weaker version of superman who is at best a lite PC kryptonian. IMO and I will recomend Dolos to the same as a poster and as a superman fan.

Originally posted by -Pr-
They're too durable, and he's not at all likely to use an IMP before they could get their defences up.

Not in character.

Actually, that would be within Sun-dip's parameters to do-he went and shoved War World right off the bat, unassumingly with fullspeed. IMP isn't that much more complicated an attack.

Originally posted by Dolos
Not in character.

Actually, that would be within Sun-dip's parameters to do-he went and shoved War World right off the bat, unassumingly with fullspeed. IMP isn't that much more complicated an attack.

I'm actually talking in character.

War World was a completely different scenario, and a completely different mindset.

Originally posted by Dolos
An attack that can break Soulfire Darkseid in half should be sufficient enough to break Loki and Thor in half.

The only thing you have going for you is that we don't know his full speed. And his ability to hit two of these before FTL reactions kick in. How FTL are their reactions, we know OWAW was many times FTL before the Sun-dip.

That's the extent of my argument.

And yet, Thor alone has endured attacks from Mephisto in his realm, a crazed Odin, Galactus, Glory, Silver Age Mangog, Celestials, etc.

So really, based on Thor's feats - not just Superman's, like you seem to be doing - Superman won't be able to crush him in the time needed to do so before either could react to him.

facepalm @ this thread.

Rao, what is Soulfire Darkseid's best durability feat.

I recall it was just as impressive as some of the ones Jake claims Thor has endured...yet Darkseid TANKED it. ?

Plus a sun-dipped Superman could hit a LOT harder than that.

He is surviving attacks that cut the fabric of reality to the bleed according to narration.

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/INSANE%20FEATS/COSMIC%20BATTLE/th_DotNG8SURVIVESACOSMICBATTLE.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/INSANE%20FEATS/COSMIC%20BATTLE/th_DotNG8SURVIVESACOSMICBATTLE2.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/INSANE%20FEATS/COSMIC%20BATTLE/th_DotNG8SURVIVESACOSMICBATTLE3.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/INSANE%20FEATS/COSMIC%20BATTLE/th_DotNG8SURVIVESACOSMICBATTLE4.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/INSANE%20FEATS/COSMIC%20BATTLE/th_DotNG8SURVIVESACOSMICBATTLE5.jpg

That a version of Superman could hit harder than that will depend on the writer IMO.

Spite. Superman oneshots both.

Superman wins if they fight in character. However, I can see Team 2 winning if say, they do some unconventional attacks. Still I have my doubts on that, so Superman wins

1. The showing on page 2 or so of Superman racing after Supergirl is pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths (COIE). It was in DC Comics Presents and was her last appearance before COIE, if memory serves.
It is NOT post-Crisis, in any event.


2. Superman did not reach the Source Wall using his own power.
He used a Boom Tube. Presumably he used the same Boom Tube that Big Barda allowed his group to use to get to and from Apokolips an issue or two prior (Superman/Batman #11 and 12 or thereabouts).

Note the signature of that very device in the following image:

Superman didn't have the mother box with him which always mkes it presence known in the vicinity of Darkseid by its "ping-ping" noise.

Supes.

Superman has flown to the source wall under his own power before, iirc, so it's not like he can't do it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman has flown to the source wall under his own power before, iirc, so it's not like he can't do it.



Maybe not, maybe so.

But I've never seen it.

And you don't recall.

Superman/Batman #13 isn't an instance of it at any rate.



Besides, if we're talking dimensional warping/hopping/travel, Thor has far more intrinsic ability to perform such a thing than Kal-el, Our Worlds at War version or no, sundip or no.

Who says I don't recall?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Who says I don't recall?





Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman has flown to the source wall under his own power before, iirc, so it's not like he can't do it.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider


Yes, as in "If I recall correctly", which means I remember it happening, but will need to check issues to verify it.

Long as I got you here, one question, for I was actually interested to see what result you were thinking of ...


That OWAW Superman Trion Jug, WBH Hulk thread you just closed for spite. Which one did you think was overpowered compared to the other two and why? 'Cause if your answer is "OWAW Superman is overpowered compared to the other 2", well, that tells me anyone arguing for Thor and Loki here has a VERY tough order to fill in ...

I was thinking that the team was overpowered.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I was thinking that the team was overpowered.




Wait a minute. "Team"?

You DID realize it was "person A versus person B versus person C and NOT "person A versus B&C TOGETHER", right?

I misread it. my bad. the thread is still unbalanced.

I think he edited the title shortly after because I know I saw "and" there

I was sure I had too.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I misread it. my bad. the thread is still unbalanced.



Alright.


I'm still unsure as to which character you think is most overpowered now, Trion Juggs or World Breaker Hulk, but I at least know with certainty that Superman wasn't your pick for the cakewalk ...


Thanks for answering.

Originally posted by Dolos
If it takes him a hundred years, assuming Loki is quick enough to lock on to him, which he's not, Superman will get out and he will kill Loki and his brother effortlessly.

I think Supes could take the physical matches, but Thor/Loki could still take matches where they use exotic ablities. If you are just looking to root for Superman, then I think it's safe to say that he was beyond any Herald-Leveler while dipped.

If you want to think that Superman completely owns Thor and Loki based on power-level, that's cool with me; but you didn't say anything about CIS-off so there is no way that he would kill Loki and Thor, much less effortlessly.

If you just want to argue one side straight-up killing the other side, then there is much more evidence to support Superman hesitating and losing his chance at "instant-kill".

This happens to Loki
http://25.media.tumblr.com/cf61d9e587a72e264e61a67bd8fea0d7/tumblr_mgc5u485tl1r8tyjfo1_500.gif

Thor soon follows
http://24.media.tumblr.com/22e2c9f96a29ab0c5227e937f9809c52/tumblr_mk6ykpLzrq1s6so3ko1_500.gif

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman isn't one-shotting Thor or Loki.

Come on.

Yes, he is.

For a Superman fan, you're underestimating a Sun-dipped Superman's ridiculous power, and you're underestimating the effect of OWAW Superman's mindset. Either that or you're overestimating Thor/Loki.

Team's only chance is immediate BFR.

I disagree. Besides, his mindset hasn't exactly been set in this matchup either.

Originally posted by Cogito
Yes, he is.

For a Superman fan, you're underestimating a Sun-dipped Superman's ridiculous power, and you're underestimating the effect of OWAW Superman's mindset. Either that or you're overestimating Thor/Loki.

Team's only chance is immediate BFR. i

I agree with this. Don't think it would be a one shot but its a stomp in Supermans favor.

Originally posted by -Pr-
his mindset hasn't exactly been set in this matchup either.

Sure it is. OP specified a OWAW Superman, which ought to mean his mental blocks are down.

Originally posted by Cogito
Sure it is. OP specified a OWAW Superman, which ought to mean his mental blocks are down.

He went through several different mindsets during OWAW, is all I'm saying.

And it's not as if I WANT Thor and Loki to win, lol

Did sundipped Superman even throw a punch in that issue?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Did sundipped Superman even throw a punch in that issue?

Didn't he throw one against the Brainiac Probes?

I know he ripped one in half, but I don't remember a punch. I could go look but I'm sure I'll get a response soon enough.

you might get a respect thread

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I know he ripped one in half, but I don't remember a punch. I could go look but I'm sure I'll get a response soon enough.

Minus the rip showing, can't remember a punch. Remember him melting a couple, ripping another in half but that's about it. That's why I said its not a one shot.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Did sundipped Superman even throw a punch in that issue?

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/Amped/ActionComics782p10_zps7e9f2660.jpg

Is that the basis for one shotting Thor and Loki then?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Is that the basis for one shotting Thor and Loki then?

I don't know, I guess so, If you consider that when He got rid of his mental blocks he was doing this:

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/VS%20IMPEREX%20PROBES/th_AC781VSIMPEREX2.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/VS%20IMPEREX%20PROBES/th_AC781VSIMPEREX3.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/VS%20IMPEREX%20PROBES/th_AOS594VSIMPEREXPROBES.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/VS%20IMPEREX%20PROBES/th_Supermanv2172VSIMPEREXPROBE3.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/VS%20IMPEREX%20PROBES/th_AOS594VSIMPEREXPROBES3.jpg

To characters that were defeating the justice league

but only capable to stalemate this guy

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/Amped/th_ManOfSteel117p17_zps97714d53.jpg

then after the sundip he did this to that same character

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/Amped/th_ActionComics782p07_zpsfc33fdd1.jpg

I guess the whole context behind and this:

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/Amped/th_ActionComics782p10_zps7e9f2660.jpg

is probably why people may imply the one shot, just a wild guess.

all under the same arc

Superman punched through probes a couple of times, iirc.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I don't know, I guess so, If you consider that when He got rid of his mental blocks he was doing this:

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/VS%20IMPEREX%20PROBES/th_AC781VSIMPEREX2.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/VS%20IMPEREX%20PROBES/th_AC781VSIMPEREX3.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/VS%20IMPEREX%20PROBES/th_AOS594VSIMPEREXPROBES.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/VS%20IMPEREX%20PROBES/th_Supermanv2172VSIMPEREXPROBE3.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/VS%20IMPEREX%20PROBES/th_AOS594VSIMPEREXPROBES3.jpg

To characters that were defeating the justice league

but only capable to stalemate this guy

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/Amped/th_ManOfSteel117p17_zps97714d53.jpg

then after the sundip he did this to that same character

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/Amped/th_ActionComics782p07_zpsfc33fdd1.jpg

I guess the whole context behind and this:

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/Amped/th_ActionComics782p10_zps7e9f2660.jpg

is probably why people may imply the one shot, just a wild guess.

all under the same arc How powerful do you think the dip made Superman? Level wise?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
How powerful do you think the dip made Superman? Level wise?

Imo, somewhere along trans. I could not see him defeating IP by himself.

Loki and Thor do the Fusion Dance, then unleash a Rune Stone enhanced God Blast Kaioken x20.

Which Superman chest bumps before combo to ko.

They can only bfr to Asgardian realms, all he has to do is pull an earth ! Superman and break out, and he'll put himself back into battle effortlessness. In character.

Or he just speed blitzes oneshots from the get go.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman won't blitz from the get-go.

And neither is Loki/Thor going to go intangible from the get go and bfr Superman to a red Sun.

Dolos was countering Jakes hardly will happen scenario with another. *** for tat kind of.

I like Dolos, dude's a bigger superfan than even me and I grew up a superfan. LOL

DD wins easy. You have to see DS's feats in that arc to appreciate what a beast DD was.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Imo, somewhere along trans. I could not see him defeating IP by himself. I have to disagree with you there cause that can't be right.

Sundipped Superman tore apart a being capable of one shotting team busters. How high is a team buster? Now, how high does one have to be to one shot them? How high was superman to overcome his strenght and then tear open someone on that level? I disagree, can't be low trans.

Originally posted by Diesldude
I like Dolos, dude's a bigger superfan than even me and I grew up a superfan. LOL

DD wins easy. You have to see DS's feats in that arc to appreciate what a beast DD was.

DD? WTF?

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
DD? WTF?

Lol I thought I was posting in the other thread. SS/thor vs HP dd.

Originally posted by Diesldude
I have to disagree with you there cause that can't be right.

Sundipped Superman tore apart a being capable of one shotting team busters. How high is a team buster? Now, how high does one have to be to one shot them? How high was superman to overcome his strenght and then tear open someone on that level? I disagree, can't be low trans.

Shh! nice and easy

I know of a lot of team busters that isn't getting the props of being a low trans.

Originally posted by carver9
I know of a lot of team busters that isn't getting the props of being a low trans.

Context durhuc

Originally posted by carver9
I know of a lot of team busters that isn't getting the props of being a low trans. that's fine, but where do you rank a guy who one shots them (team busters) ?

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I don't know, I guess so, If you consider that when He got rid of his mental blocks he was doing this:

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/VS%20IMPEREX%20PROBES/th_AC781VSIMPEREX2.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/VS%20IMPEREX%20PROBES/th_AC781VSIMPEREX3.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/VS%20IMPEREX%20PROBES/th_AOS594VSIMPEREXPROBES.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/VS%20IMPEREX%20PROBES/th_Supermanv2172VSIMPEREXPROBE3.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/VS%20IMPEREX%20PROBES/th_AOS594VSIMPEREXPROBES3.jpg

To characters that were defeating the justice league

but only capable to stalemate this guy

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/Amped/th_ManOfSteel117p17_zps97714d53.jpg

then after the sundip he did this to that same character

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/Amped/th_ActionComics782p07_zpsfc33fdd1.jpg

I guess the whole context behind and this:

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/Amped/th_ActionComics782p10_zps7e9f2660.jpg

is probably why people may imply the one shot, just a wild guess.

all under the same arc

It never occurred to me to use Superman's different encounters with B13 as a reference point to his power increase after the sundip.

Superman dropped his mental blocks and started owning probes that could beat the League, but still couldn't seem to affect B13, then after the dip he did seem to have an advantage as B13 couldn't stop him from the big bang bfr.

Looking at it that way makes sun-dipped Superman seem REALLY powerful.

Good post.

Originally posted by Dolos
They can only bfr to Asgardian realms, all he has to do is pull an earth ! Superman and break out, and he'll put himself back into battle effortlessness. In character.

Or he just speed blitzes oneshots from the get go.

They can "only BFR to Asgardian realms"? That isn't anywhere close to being true. Thor has accessed the realms of other pantheons and other dimensions such as the Negative Zone, Mephisto's Hell, Microverse, and others. Not sure who told you that they're limited to only accessing portals from the Nine Realms, but that's completely not true.

Based on what they've endured, Superman's not one shotting them.

Originally posted by Diesldude
that's fine, but where do you rank a guy who one shots them (team busters) ?

Depends. Adamantium Ultron was a team buster and Hulk incapacitated him with a single hit...GRAVAGE Hulk.

Originally posted by carver9
Depends. Adamantium Ultron was a team buster and Hulk incapacitated him with a single hit...GRAVAGE Hulk.

tip toeing around answer doesn't do much but show that you wont admit certain things

mmm

Green Arrow beat Slade the Terminator with one shot, didn't he?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
tip toeing around answer doesn't do much but show that you wont admit certain things

Team wins.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Team wins.

Agreed, but Superman DOES make them work for it.

lol. no.

Superman wins more often than not.

Originally posted by h1a8
And neither is Loki/Thor going to go intangible from the get go and bfr Superman to a red Sun.

Dolos was countering Jakes hardly will happen scenario with another. *** for tat kind of.

nope.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
They can "only BFR to Asgardian realms"? That isn't anywhere close to being true. Thor has accessed the realms of other pantheons and other dimensions such as the Negative Zone, Mephisto's Hell, Microverse, and others. Not sure who told you that they're limited to only accessing portals from the Nine Realms, but that's completely not true.
Please don't tell me that you're seriously trying to have a discussion with the Sean Hannity of the Comic Book Forums.

Dolos is high on kryptonite.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
lol. no.

Superman wins more often than not.

I can't see him/Superman losing once.

Me neither, but I like being generous

http://25.media.tumblr.com/3bbe27485411b40792b6f651f4370489/tumblr_mjxnddoAQV1rj4uo2o1_500.gif

Originally posted by h1a8
And neither is Loki/Thor going to go intangible from the get go and bfr Superman to a red Sun.

Dolos was countering Jakes hardly will happen scenario with another. *** for tat kind of.

BFRing him into a red sun is a bit too specific for the duo to do and more OOC than them merely dumping him into another dimension or void or somekind.

Going intangible from the beginning of the fight is very in character for Loki, as is casting illusions that would fool the likes of Odin and others.