Best Games of the Generation

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BackFire
With this current generation of consoles winding down, I thought now might be a good time to make this thread.

Just go ahead and list what you think are the best games of this generation. I know there's still a few games coming out over the next year that may crack some top 10 lists, but most of what's going to be done this generation has already happened. So, list away. List your top 5, top 10, 20, whatever. Thought it would be interested to see people's opinions on this.

Here's mine.

10. Braid:
A fun platformer with the workings of true art. Thoughtful, elegant, clever and moving.

9. Portal:
The best bonus to every come with a game. Few people knew what this would be when The Orange Box came out. Even fewer knew how it would completely change the gaming landscape, spawning one of the most memorable and quotable lines in gaming history. That one about the cake. Brilliant levels and greatly benefiting from its short length, leaving you wanting much more by the time it's done. One of the best puzzle games of all time.

8. The Walking Dead - The Game
I remember several years ago there was a lot of discussion among developers in the industry if there'd ever be a game truly capable of making mass gamers cry. It was a topic discussed in any number of gaming publications, on forums, in magazines. Years later we have that game.

One of the most profoundly powerful stories ever told in the medium, with one of the most memorable characters I've encountered - the little girl Clemintine. The desire to protect her is absurdly powerful, and the connection you feel towards her - remarkable. Also has perhaps the most potent sense of dread I've played in a game. Relentlessly dark. But capable of gripping even the coldest human heart.

7. Mass Effect:
The start of something great. Taking the idea of meaningful choice and making it feel truly important. Mass Effect captured imaginations in a way I've never seen before by creating the potential for player choice to play a huge role in the story on a scale that we've never seen before. Introduces us to many great characters that blossum as the series progresses.

6. Arkham City:
The ultimate batman simulator. A great combination of story, fullfilling gameplay and a wonderfully developed world that is great fun to explore. Part GTA, part Zelda, part beat em up and part puzzle game, Arkham City succeeds by offering an almost dizzying amount of unique content, each individual portion better than that of most games that concentrate solely on that style of gameplay.

5. Bioshock:
Would you kindly...need I say more? Rapture is one of the most well realized game worlds ever created. While the story falters and slips into cliches, the world is something both horrifying and beautiful. A world you can lose yourself in. A place worth exploring.

4. Bioshock Infinite
Takes the quality world building of the first game and improves on the gameplay and the story. While many may prefer Rapture to Columbia, the story here is leagues better than the first. Extremely heady and borderline pretentious, but thought provoking and artful. If every there was a game to convince someone that games can be art, this is it.

3. Mass Effect 3
Controversial, but only because of how invested so many were in this series. It may have its flaws in regards to the overal plotline, but it's the quiet, moving and funny character moments on the Normandy that will in time define this game. By the time it all ends, you will be deeply invested.

2. Skyrim
The best world ever created. Begging to be explored in an almost obnoxious way. This is less a game than it is a playset. It gives you all the tools to have a great experience and lets you go find them yourself. Respects the player. Respects their desire to be let free and do what they wish. The sense of wonder that I felt when I first set foot out into the world after the short introduction is something I'll never forget. A whole world fully alive and realized. Living and breathing just for me.

1. Mass Effect 2
By the end of Mass Effect 2 I knew I was playing something special. I felt so heavily invested into the plight of Shepard and his crew that I was unsure I wanted it to end. I loved the characters, and the world. From the fiery walls of Omega to the sprawling landscape of Illium - it all felt so rich and pulsing with life.

I've always said that Mass Effect 1 sets up the characters and the events of the trilogy, and Mass Effect 3 puts the universe you now care deeply for in legitimate and unimaginable danger, but Mass Effect 2 makes you care about the universe and the characters. That is its purpose. And it excels. It also has probably the best cliffhanger ending I've seen. Sets up the third game beautifully. I'll never forget roaming the Normandy, talking to the characters who by the end of the game felt not like characters but true friends and allies. I felt like I knew them. And it made me care almost beyond bearing about what happened to them.

Bardock42
Solid list.

Morridini
It is impossible for me to rank anything, however I'd like to add (and subtract) some of the games from your list.

Subtracting: Skyrim, Walking Dead and the Bioshocks.

The latter of these, Bioshock, might earn its way back in if I get around to continue playing it (I started recently, and was kinda halted after 20 minutes into the game). I have not played Infinite so I cannot put it on the list, yet.

Skyrim is a solid game... but nothing more, I enjoyed Fallout 3 and New Vegas a lot more.

Walking Dead was a disappointment, I have not yet finished the second episode simply due to me getting annoyed at all the Player input - character action inconsistencies (much more noticeable in TWD then in, say, Mass Effect).

Additions:
Heavy Rain - stellar game, some of the most intense gaming moments in my life were in this game.

Uncharted 2 - Wow, what a fantastic adventure.

Assassins Creed 2 and Brotherhood: These are one of my most favourite games, combining exciting plot, history and great action, just lovely

Read Dead Redemption - Hands down, best Western AND best Open-World game I have ever played.

Burnout Paradise - The only car game I have ever spent 50+ hours in, that says a lot. Plus, amazing open World mechanics.

Metroid Prime 3 - This game, is a Metroid Prime game, end of story!

Super Mario Galaxy - Fan-****ing-tastic Mario platformer. Sequel gets an honorable mentions as well.

Fallout 3 - Immensely fun, post-apocalyptic (isn't that a contradiction?) RPG.

That's some at least, probably forgotten a lot.

Ushgarak
Hmm... the reason I find a 'best' games list hard to do, rather as with 'best' books, is that I think different game types often have very little in common with each other other for such a ranking. To pick three games I really like of late, I couldn't possibly see Braid, Victoria 2 and Guild Wars 2 on the same list as the things I like about them are so distinct from each other that it would feel weird to suggest they are in the same category. And it gets very difficult when I consider games that I don't actually think are that good but have brilliant ideas within them that deserve attention.

Morridini
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Hmm... the reason I find a 'best' games list hard to do, rather as with 'best' books, is that I think different game types often have very little in common with each other other for such a ranking.

Well just do as I do and the problem is solved, list the games you liked this generations but don't rank them. Only common factor is that they are video games.

Peach
I don't play enough games to come up with a top ten list, and I hate ranking things...but of the stuff I've played over the past few years:

Assassin's Creed 2 and Brotherhood: Best games in a great series by a longshot; AC2 makes you actually care about the character you're playing as, Brotherhood expands upon that even further and brings other background characters to the front (Claudia <3), and also had the only online multiplayer in a game I've ever liked. Hands down my favorite console games.

Guild Wars 2. Do I really even need to say anything here? I've followed it since before it was officially revealed, I write about it, I lead a guild of nearly 200 members, I've gotten to do interviews with devs, I've met devs, and there is an NPC in the game named after me. I've also met some truly amazing friends through my involvement in the game's community (at PAX East a bunch of my guild all met up and not going to lie when I say that was one of the best weekends of my life). It's silly but that game has had a huge impact on me, and actually playing the game itself is only a small part of it.

Scribblenauts. It's a silly cute little puzzle game that can be absolutely hilarious. I could spend hours just playing around on the title screen seeing what I could make there.

Little Big Planet. Cute platformer that's silly as hell and allows tons of customization. It was the first game I bought when I got my PSP, first game I bought when I got my Vita, and first game I bought when I got my PS3.

I guess that's technically five? Nothing else I've played in the past few years really stands out to me as much as those ones did.

BTW, people who liked Braid - check out Snapshot. It's a similar concept and is really fun. I tried it out at PAX (on the recommendation of GW2's lead designer...hah), enjoyed it a lot, and bought it on Steam the other day.

Arachnid1
Metal Gear Solid 4
Uncharted 2
Skyrim
Mass Effect 3
Heavy Rain
Portal
Read Dead Redemption
Bioshock
Assassins Creed 2
Arkham City

Not really in that order though. I just know MGS4 is my #1.

Estacado
Farcry 3
Skyrim
Arkham City
Fallout 3
New Tomb Raider was pretty awesome

Digi
Backfire's initial list is good. I haven't played all of them, but tend to lean toward games that introduced something new or raised the bar in ways that others will be emulating for years. Portal meets this criteria. As does the Mass Effect series with their storytelling.

Some of the others are just refinements on earlier success...for example, Skyrim, for all its awesomeness, is just a refinement of the earlier Elder Scrolls games. New map, better graphics, more polished...but essentially nothing I wasn't doing in Daggerfall more than a decade ago. It belongs on a "best" list, but doesn't quite hold the same place in my mind as the truly innovative games.

Originally posted by Peach
Guild Wars 2. Do I really even need to say anything here? I've followed it since before it was officially revealed, I write about it, I lead a guild of nearly 200 members, I've gotten to do interviews with devs, I've met devs, and there is an NPC in the game named after me. I've also met some truly amazing friends through my involvement in the game's community (at PAX East a bunch of my guild all met up and not going to lie when I say that was one of the best weekends of my life). It's silly but that game has had a huge impact on me, and actually playing the game itself is only a small part of it.

This is awesome. A good friend of mine who runs the WoW website I write for occasionally has met devs and has an in-game item named after him. It's been a cool nod to his contributions. I'm much more on the edges of that sort of involvement, but as a result of the community surrounding the site, we've been able to orchestrate events of hundreds of people that accomplish things smaller groups could never do, and I've had in-game opportunities and accomplishments that wouldn't have been even remotely possible with a traditional guild and raid structure.

That's the only reason I still play (but a great reason), since the gameplay itself is admittedly so-so.

ESB -1138
1.) Super Mario Galaxy
2.) Bioshock Infinite
3.) Metroid Prime 3
4.) The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
5.) Super Mario Galaxy 2

Ben "cA" Risa
I'd rank Braid as not only the best game of this generation but the best game of all time and I think it's going to be a really long time until we see it matched by anything else. There are some games I'd count among the best this generation for telling a thought-provoking storyline (Zero Escape), for providing fun, challenging, and innovative gameplay (Portal), for being visually and aurally beautiful (Flower), and for communicating a message via the gameplay in interesting ways (The Unfinished Swan) but Braid is the only one that stands out in every single category, and it arguably excels over every other game in each category as well. By far the greatest piece of videogame art ever made and I think anybody who's played it would find it hard to disagree with that notion.

The rest in no particular order, though I'm sure I may have missed a couple:

999: Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors
Zero Escape: Virtue's Last reward
Portal
Portal 2
Flower
Journey
Limbo
Chaos;Head
The Unfinished Swan
Metal Gear Solid 4
Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker
Catherine
Super Mario Galaxy 1
Super Mario Galaxy 2
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Metroid Prime 3
Xenoblade Chronicles

Tzeentch._
Solid list Backfire.

I'm not inclined to do a list because most of my rankings are defined by nostalgia, rather than by the actual quality of the game. I definitely agree with Mass Effect 2, though. In my opinion, that game was basically "perfection". Not just one of my favorite games of this generation, but of all time.

I love ME2 so much that I still haven't played ME3, because I'm scared it's going to disappoint me. lol

wakkawakkawakka
I would've added Metal Gear Solid 4 and Red Dead Redemption in Backfire's list along with taking out "The Walking Dead". Though I doubt I could make a top 10 list myself so here's my attempt in no particular order:

1. Skyrim
2. Arkham City
3. Mass Effect 2
4. uncharted 2
5. Assasin's Creed 2/Brotherhood
6. Metal Gear Solid 4

And that's all I've got for now no expression

ScreamPaste
In no particular order:

Skyward Sword
Fallout New Vegas/Fallout 3
Arkham City
Metroid Prime Trilogy
Metroid Other M, solid enough gameplay for me to ignore the lamer points.
Amnesia: The Dark Descent
NSMB, all of them are awesome.
Arkham Asylum
Portal 2
Assassin's Creed, Revelations.

May add more, later.

ares834
Pretty much agree with Backfire's list my top 5 (restricting it to one game from a series) would be:

1. Mass Effect 2
2. Skyrim
3. Bioshock Infinite
4. Witcher 2
5. Portal

Impediment
Heavy Rain: One of the most breathtaking and mesmerizing games I have ever played. This is a very good reason to own a PS3.

Infamous: A fantastically fun sandbox adventure game that lets you choose your fate.

Batman: Arkham City: No explanation needed.

Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (Wii): This game is, far and away, leagues better than Skyward Sword in both game controls and graphics. It felt just right on the Wii remote and nunchuck.

Bioshock: One of the very best, and original stories I have ever experienced.

Mass Effect 2: The best of the trilogy.

Portal 2: Portal 1 was amazing, but I love 2 better because of extended play time and MP. And Wheatley, too. Gotta love that traitorous personality core!

Super Mario Galaxy: A very charming and even more fun game.

Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare: A timeless shooter that reinvented the genre. Perfect in every way. MW 2 and 3 will never be on this level.

God of War III: The pinnacle of graphical perfection and action.

Peach
Originally posted by Digi
This is awesome. A good friend of mine who runs the WoW website I write for occasionally has met devs and has an in-game item named after him. It's been a cool nod to his contributions. I'm much more on the edges of that sort of involvement, but as a result of the community surrounding the site, we've been able to orchestrate events of hundreds of people that accomplish things smaller groups could never do, and I've had in-game opportunities and accomplishments that wouldn't have been even remotely possible with a traditional guild and raid structure.

That's the only reason I still play (but a great reason), since the gameplay itself is admittedly so-so.

I'm not going to lie, I love it. It's funny because I'd never really been a very social community person before I started writing, but now I find myself involved in pretty much everything ever. Last year when the game was in beta I was given a ton of keys to give away, got a Christmas card, was sent two signed CEs earlier this year (one to give away on my site, one to keep)...and then of course the fact that I spent two hours one day at PAX having lunch and hanging out with the devs that were there.

My alias I use is Verene (I write under that name and it's part of my twitter handle), and there is an NPC named Verene. She amuses all of my friends and guildies because she's insane and runs in circles a lot trying to get people's attention. The place she's at is also the only place in the game you can get max level aquabreathers for underwater, so it's become tradition in my guild to keep the starter one until level 80 and then "Let's go visit V!" laughing out loud

FistOfThe North
My top 10 best games of the generation.

1. Gta V
2. Mass Effect 2
3. Batman Arkham City
4. Crysis
5. Xcom Enemy Unknown
6. Assassin's Creed
7. Tekken 6
8.Call of Duty Black Ops I Nazi Zombies
9. God of War 3
10. SimCity 2013

FistOfThe North
Gta IV, my bad.

Can't stop thinking about gta 5, lol.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
I definitely agree with Mass Effect 2, though. In my opinion, that game was basically "perfection". Not just one of my favorite games of this generation, but of all time.

I love ME2 so much that I still haven't played ME3, because I'm scared it's going to disappoint me. lol Yeah, it's basically one of the best games that has ever been created, and Bioware's Magnum Opus. It managed to break the mold of "Good writing and characters and shit, crappy to meh gameplay" that Bioware is known for.

Kazenji
Farcry 3 & Blood Dragon
Bioshock
Arkham City
New Tomb Raider
God Of War 3
Metal Gear Solid 4
Assassins Creed 2 & Brotherhood
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
Limbo
Half-Life 2 + the two episodes

Well that's some...

Smasandian
Mass Effect 3
Mass Effect 2
Red Dead Redemption
Gears of War
Crysis 2
BIoshock
Fallout 3
Battlefield 3
Super Meat Boy
Portal 2
Crysis

jinXed by JaNx
red dead
mass effect...,maybe
skyrim
left 4 dead

that's about it, really.


i really on't know why you people seem insistant on naming games like super meat boy or limbo. they don't do anything that features this gens capabilities. I'm not saying they're not good games because they are, but just because you like them doesn't mean they couldn't have been made have been made in the 16 bit era.

Smasandian
What"s considered best?

Is it graphics? Is it gameplay? or what?

Best of lists in my opinion are games you like the best.

Ben "cA" Risa
To be honest this thread does a pretty good job of highlighting what have been some of the most overrated games of this generation. The Skyrims, the Uncharteds, the Bioshocks and the Mass Effects. None of these deserve to be counted among the best games of the generation.

-Pr-
Mass Effect definitely would, imo. Especially number 2. ME2 is everything that Bioware can do right, DONE RIGHT. It's an amazing game in almost every aspect.

Ben "cA" Risa
I give credit to Mass Effect 2 for being a sum of impressive parts, nothing more, nothing less. Impressive graphics, soundtrack, storyline, gameplay, but I feel that it doesn't do anything particularly impressive in any one area and that it doesn't do anything particularly new. I know people will praise it for the storyline, but I don't feel it truly stands out as having a world class storyline, especially when judged outside the medium. The gameplay is polished but most people would agree that it's not on the level of say, a Gears of War, within its genre. Good graphics but I don't think the world looked breathtaking and I wasn't blown away by the soundtrack either.

I just feel that there have been other games out there this generation that have had far more to offer, particularly if you take a look inside the indie market as well as the mainstream.

For the record I don't think it's nearly as overrated as the other games I mentioned.

-Pr-
What about the characters?

Ben "cA" Risa
I don't know, underwhelming I guess? I'm not saying the game doesn't have its good points, I just feel if I compared it to say, the Portal games, you have no contest really as on one hand you have these games that are incredibly innovative and offer really fresh experiences and on the other hand you have a pretty standard experience, polished certainly, but I personally wasn't wowed by it.

And if we are talking just story and characters, imo the Zero Escape games were easily the best of the generation.

-Pr-
I have to say I completely disagree, but that's me.

Kazenji
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
To be honest this thread does a pretty good job of highlighting what have been some of the most overrated games of this generation.

Its all very subjective really your calling those games overrated but another person would most likely would disagree.

NemeBro
Oh hey it's Darth Ray Park.

Ben "cA" Risa
Originally posted by Digi
Backfire's initial list is good. I haven't played all of them, but tend to lean toward games that introduced something new or raised the bar in ways that others will be emulating for years. Portal meets this criteria. As does the Mass Effect series with their storytelling.

Some of the others are just refinements on earlier success...for example, Skyrim, for all its awesomeness, is just a refinement of the earlier Elder Scrolls games. New map, better graphics, more polished...but essentially nothing I wasn't doing in Daggerfall more than a decade ago. It belongs on a "best" list, but doesn't quite hold the same place in my mind as the truly innovative games.

I'm not sure you can say that Mass Effect is all that different from Skyrim in that sense actually. Neither were in any way truly innovative in their design, but stand out for being bigger, better versions of the same basic kind of game that their developers had been making for years. Mass Effect is not in any way innovative in the sense that something like Portal is.

cdtm
For my money, Bayo and Vanquish are great.

Lone Survivor and Bastion were memorable, too.

cdtm
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
I give credit to Mass Effect 2 for being a sum of impressive parts, nothing more, nothing less. Impressive graphics, soundtrack, storyline, gameplay, but I feel that it doesn't do anything particularly impressive in any one area and that it doesn't do anything particularly new. I know people will praise it for the storyline, but I don't feel it truly stands out as having a world class storyline, especially when judged outside the medium. The gameplay is polished but most people would agree that it's not on the level of say, a Gears of War, within its genre. Good graphics but I don't think the world looked breathtaking and I wasn't blown away by the soundtrack either.

I just feel that there have been other games out there this generation that have had far more to offer, particularly if you take a look inside the indie market as well as the mainstream.

For the record I don't think it's nearly as overrated as the other games I mentioned.

Outside of the storyline thing, which no one praises, this pretty much sums up my feelings on Zelda games. Happy Dance

Ben "cA" Risa
The difference with Zelda is that the games typically have more of an emphasis on puzzles which by their nature offer a different intellectual experience with every different puzzle, and the same can be said with the emphasis the games place on exploration and how it uses level design to make exploring each new world a fresh experience. The games also typically feature a number of innovative gameplay elements with each installment that people typically ignore when criticizing the games.

Tzeentch._
Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh hey it's Darth Ray Park. It's wierd 'cause, I don't recall his last account actually being banned.

Digi
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
I'm not sure you can say that Mass Effect is all that different from Skyrim in that sense actually. Neither were in any way truly innovative in their design, but stand out for being bigger, better versions of the same basic kind of game that their developers had been making for years. Mass Effect is not in any way innovative in the sense that something like Portal is.

Innovation is more than a new mechanic (i.e. portal gun).

Also, yes, sure, ME and Skyrim are pretty similar in many ways...

....somehow.

confused

Ben "cA" Risa
"innovative in their design"

Mass Effect can only be considered innovative in such manners as taking choice-based storytelling to new heights, which it did not through innovative design but by simply putting "more" into the game.

Mass Effect and Skyrim are absolutely similar in that regard, as Skyrim itself took an existing formula to new heights simply by making it a bigger and better version of anything that had come before it, just like Mass Effect.

You made the distinction between the two games in that regard when there really isn't one.

Neither of them are innovative in the same sense as something like Portal or Braid is.

Nephthys
Innovation is not the sole marker for brilliance. Also true for story. ME2 does a lot of things fantastically even if you don't think those aspects were great.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh hey it's Darth Ray Park.

I think it may be Nebaris instead. You can tell by his throbbing innovation-boner.

Also I agree with him about 999: Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors. ****ing mindblowing game.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Nephthys
Innovation is not the sole marker for brilliance.

Pretty much.

cdtm
Originally posted by Nephthys
Innovation is not the sole marker for brilliance. Also true for story. ME2 does a lot of things fantastically even if you don't think those aspects were great.


Agreed.

ME is a great franchise in general, imo.

His argument against it doesn't phase me much, since I visited a website called RPG Codec.. Their stance in a nutshell: "There are no good modern RPG games, and Infinity Engine games like Planescape Torment the greatest RPG's ever made. Also, System Shock 2 is awesome, and Bioshock is shit. Also, cover mechanics are lame because being able to sprint backwards while snapping off shots with pinpoint accuracy at impossible angles is somehow more realistic then an enemy randomly popping their head out from behind cover for no good reason."

NemeBro
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
The games also typically feature a number of innovative gameplay elements with each installment that people typically ignore when criticizing the games. Like what?

Ben "cA" Risa
Let's try and stay on topic guys. If you wish to discuss Zelda there are plenty of existing threads for that very purpose.

Kazenji
Who promoted you to mod status?

Digi
Let's stay on topic guys. If you want to talk about Zelda this is the games forum and what the heck am I saying.

Also, I did a surface scan of the last couple pages and didn't see any Zelda discussion. So... ermm

Peach
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
Let's try and stay on topic guys. If you wish to discuss Zelda there are plenty of existing threads for that very purpose.

Nope. If you want to claim other games lack innovation but make statements like that, then back them up.

Ben "cA" Risa
To prevent this from straying even further away from the topic as others (looking at you, Peach) would have it, I will be posting my response within my sig. Of course, I will likely be changing my sig to a picture at some point, so if you wish to see it there will be a limited window of opportunity to do so. That will be all.

FistOfThe North
Originally posted by Kazenji
Farcry 3 & Blood Dragon
Bioshock
Arkham City
New Tomb Raider
God Of War 3
Metal Gear Solid 4
Assassins Creed 2 & Brotherhood
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
Limbo
Half-Life 2 + the two episodes

Well that's some...

from 2005 to 2013 Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon tops your list as the best game of the generation? Or even one of the best? wow.

I have this game and I don't see what you see. To each his own, I guess.

Kazenji
Originally posted by FistOfThe North

I have this game and I don't see what you see. To each his own, I guess.

Yeah each to their own.....considering your getting pumped up for another CoD game glare

NemeBro
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
To prevent this from straying even further away from the topic as others (looking at you, Peach) would have it, I will be posting my response within my sig. Of course, I will likely be changing my sig to a picture at some point, so if you wish to see it there will be a limited window of opportunity to do so. That will be all. Coward.

Ben "cA" Risa
I gave you all the opportunity in the world to respond NemeBro; you had your opportunity and you didn't take it. You can't have expected me to keep the response in my sig forever.

Back on topic now please.

Digi
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
I gave you all the opportunity in the world to respond NemeBro; you had your opportunity and you didn't take it. You can't have expected me to keep the response in my sig forever.

Back on topic now please.

lol. "Here is your window in which to respond. Scurry, underlings, scurry!" ...is how you come across. Just saying'

Also, how much do you know of the internet? Obviously not a ton, or you wouldn't try to curb off-topic-ness by telling other to get back on topic. All threads - sorry, most threads - work their way back. But they need room for tangents...this is life and real people and junk. Not robots responding to a query. Worry less, debate more.

Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
(looking at you, Peach)

Can't blame you.

*looks at Peach*
love

Peach
Hey now, Digi stick out tongue

BackFire
Peach, get back on topic. Listen to the new self appointed moderator.

cdtm
PS2 is a last gen console, but had a lot of crossover with current gen games.

Basically, I want to put Persona 4 on the list, and am wondering if being on a last gen console disqualifies it, even though it was squarely going head to head with the 360 and ps3 games at the time.. (Thus, you can argue it, along with many PS2 games, were games "of" this generation based on when they were released...)

Morridini
After having played 2/3s of Max Payne 3 I definitely have to add this to my earlier list, also add Just Cause 2 as I had forgotten that one as well.

cdtm
Was going to get Max Payne 3 after buying 1/2 on a Steam sale, but apparently they won't work with modern OS's.

The fact Rockstar and Steam KNOW this, yet still sell them to suckers like me anyways without offering any kind of support for the problem, kind of sours me on Steam sales, at least for "abandonware" type stuff.

Morridini
Originally posted by cdtm
Was going to get Max Payne 3 after buying 1/2 on a Steam sale, but apparently they won't work with modern OS's.

The fact Rockstar and Steam KNOW this, yet still sell them to suckers like me anyways without offering any kind of support for the problem, kind of sours me on Steam sales, at least for "abandonware" type stuff.

I just checked the steam community forum for Max Payne 1 & 2 as I thought that sounded weird, and it seems that about 50% of the people have trouble getting it to work, so I think you should still try to get it to work, most of the people who say it doesn't work initially return later to say that it eventually worked. Of course, I agree with your sentiment about personal tweaking should not be needed to make a game playable.

Kazenji
Originally posted by cdtm

The fact Rockstar and Steam KNOW this, yet still sell them to suckers like me anyways without offering any kind of support for the problem, kind of sours me on Steam sales, at least for "abandonware" type stuff.

If you want old games try out GOG.com

Smasandian
We are talking about games that are 10 years old. There is times where it won't work with current technology. It happens. It sucks, I get it but the Steam community is very good at finding ways to fix the issues.

Yes, it should work out of the box but Max Payne is a 12 year old game. Can't expect to work perfectly on every system.

Also, the system requirements clearly say that XP is the last OS supported.

Also, GOG.com Max Payne won't work either. It's the game that causing issues not Steam.

Kazenji
Originally posted by Smasandian

Also, GOG.com Max Payne won't work either. It's the game that causing issues not Steam.

They don't even have it anyway

so the game won't work perfectly on modern PC even if you play around with the properties?



also for my list i'll add Max Payne 3.

-Pr-
I got Max Payne to work on my Windows 7, though it was a while ago. Maybe I'm just one of the lucky ones.

Kazenji
I know when i got Max Payne 2 off steam, I had some problems with it and i'm running XP but i eventually got it working.

Smasandian
Originally posted by Kazenji
They don't even have it anyway

so the game won't work perfectly on modern PC even if you play around with the properties?



also for my list i'll add Max Payne 3.

I have no idea but there is probably a few threads open in Steam discussion forums that have ways to fix it.

It's an old game, it's bound to happen.

Impediment
Having finally played through the Walking Dead game, I wish to add this to my list.

This game is legendary.

Zack Fair
I think the best game of this generation is Mass Effect 2.

Ben "cA" Risa
Originally posted by Kazenji
If you want old games try out GOG.com

Originally posted by Smasandian
We are talking about games that are 10 years old. There is times where it won't work with current technology. It happens. It sucks, I get it but the Steam community is very good at finding ways to fix the issues.

Yes, it should work out of the box but Max Payne is a 12 year old game. Can't expect to work perfectly on every system.

Also, the system requirements clearly say that XP is the last OS supported.

Also, GOG.com Max Payne won't work either. It's the game that causing issues not Steam.

Originally posted by Kazenji
They don't even have it anyway

so the game won't work perfectly on modern PC even if you play around with the properties?



also for my list i'll add Max Payne 3.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I got Max Payne to work on my Windows 7, though it was a while ago. Maybe I'm just one of the lucky ones.

Originally posted by Kazenji
I know when i got Max Payne 2 off steam, I had some problems with it and i'm running XP but i eventually got it working.

Originally posted by Smasandian
I have no idea but there is probably a few threads open in Steam discussion forums that have ways to fix it.

It's an old game, it's bound to happen.

Originally posted by cdtm
Was going to get Max Payne 3 after buying 1/2 on a Steam sale, but apparently they won't work with modern OS's.

The fact Rockstar and Steam KNOW this, yet still sell them to suckers like me anyways without offering any kind of support for the problem, kind of sours me on Steam sales, at least for "abandonware" type stuff.

Originally posted by Morridini
I just checked the steam community forum for Max Payne 1 & 2 as I thought that sounded weird, and it seems that about 50% of the people have trouble getting it to work, so I think you should still try to get it to work, most of the people who say it doesn't work initially return later to say that it eventually worked. Of course, I agree with your sentiment about personal tweaking should not be needed to make a game playable.

Back on topic now guys if you wish to discuss computers there is a tech forum for that very purpose.

Ben "cA" Risa
Originally posted by Zack Fair
I think the best game of this generation is Mass Effect 2.

Not what OP was asking for guy.

cdtm
I don't see an admin tag by your name, Ben "cA" Risa.

No one likes a back seat mod, my friend.

Peach
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
Back on topic now guys if you wish to discuss computers there is a tech forum for that very purpose.

Knock it off with the backseat modding. You aren't a mod, you don't get to tell people what to do.

-Pr-
For me, the best games of the generation were:

Mass Effect 2 - Arguably the best game I've played in the last five or so years, this is exactly the kind of game that, as a kid, you wanted them to make one day. A hybrid of different genres with an excellent story, wonderful, deep characters, and actual, satisfying gameplay. I think I've finished this game at least four times since I've had it.

Batman: Arkham City - While Arkham Asylum was more of a game changer and had that "wow" factor as it was so different from anything else, Arkham City took everything good and bad about Asylum and improved upon it. Not just an excellent Batman story, but an excellent game that actually makes you feel like you imagine Batman would.

Dragon Age Origins - I know this game has it's detractors, and some might find the gameplay to be uninspiring, but tbh this game was, for me, the game that made me love Bioware. Mass Effect 1 was good, but this... This was something else. Using old themes without making them boring; adding in little quirks here and there to fill out the game (cinematic kills for example), and then making the game actually allow you to be tactical in how you played it. I can't stress how much I loved this game.

Mass Effect 3 - Not as character driven as ME2, the game still has some exceptional plot points. A great story, some wonderful level design, and the constant feeling that if you were in the middle of an intergalactic war, this was what it would feel like. It's hard to make you feel that sense of urgency and at the same time make it enjoyable, but the game did it somewhat flawlessly.

Those are the ones that come to mind for now...

Smasandian
I like Mass Effect 3 better. Just for being epic. I wanted something epic and it delivered.

But Mass Effect 2 is a fantastic game as well.

The whole series is. The best series this generation in my opinion. Each game was fantastic and each game played differently. You can't really say that about a lot of series.

Ben "cA" Risa
They didn't play that differently. Sure the combat and the resource gathering systems were a little different but the general structure of the campaigns are pretty much identical among all Bioware games.

Best series would be between Portal and Super Mario Galaxy imo.

-Pr-
They played differently enough to employ different mechanics between games.

Smasandian
No, they didn't play "that" differently but compared to other series, they did.

The first game was an RPG with shooting. The second game was a shooter with very little RPG and third was combined shooter and RPG.

Look at CoD, Battlefield and others. Each game is the same outside of a different story. Hell, even Half Life 2 played the same as Half Life.

Peach
The controls between the MEs actually changed quite a bit. I found ME1's controls to be unplayably broken, whereas ME2 was much better in that aspect.

Smasandian
I don't remember the controls for Mass Effect, it's been awhile but I do remember that ME2 is much better game to play mechanic wise.

It's even better in ME3.

suorzuan
At first I thought it might be a House ofCommons party
http://verlan.techqd.com/6.jpghttp://verlan.techqd.com/7.jpghttp://verlan.techqd.com/8.jpghttp://verlan.techqd.com/9.jpg

Ben "cA" Risa
Originally posted by Smasandian
No, they didn't play "that" differently but compared to other series, they did.

The first game was an RPG with shooting. The second game was a shooter with very little RPG and third was combined shooter and RPG.

Look at CoD, Battlefield and others. Each game is the same outside of a different story. Hell, even Half Life 2 played the same as Half Life.

Compared to the majority of other series, maybe. Compared to some series though, not at all. I don't think you can say they particularly stand out for being that different with each installment, and Call of Duty and Battlefield are notorious for releasing practically the same game with each installment. All three are shooters with tech skills and powers, and the biggest difference is the massive improvement over the controls of the first game (which were shockingly bad) and the removal of the vehicle feature. The quest structure in each game is basically identical and sure you get a few differences such as how you gather resources and the inclusion of multiplayer in 2 but essentially the games play very similarly.

The games that comprise, as an example, the Final Fantasy XIII series by comparison are drastically different.

-Pr-
Maybe, but I'd play Mass Effect 2 a dozen times over before touching some of the later Final Fantasy games.

ME blew most of those out of the water, imo.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
The games that comprise, as an example, the Final Fantasy XIII series by comparison are drastically different.

Yeah but those games blow chunks. ME is actually fun.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by -Pr-
Maybe, but I'd play Mass Effect 2 a dozen times over before touching some of the later Final Fantasy games.

ME blew most of those out of the water, imo. I beat ME 2 over 5 times in two months. Beating it on insane three times. Numerous Paragon/Renegade playthroughs.

In contrast I played FF13 one time, and tried to finish it a 2nd time but couldn't. Sucks because I have beat FF7 and 8 over 5-6 times each. Square needs to stop being lazy and start bringing their A game instead of what they have given us this gen. Its a shame, really. The gold Snes/PSX days are long gone.

Ben "cA" Risa
I actually think Final Fantasy XIII's a little underrated. It has imo the best art design by far out of all the big budget games this gen with an absolutely amazing soundtrack, to the point that it's arguably the overall most aesthetically beautiful game ever released. Its linearity was simply an artistic choice and whether or not it makes for good design is a matter of opinion, and its battle system was pretty innovative and personally one of my favorite JRPG battle systems of all time. The storyline wasn't amazing by any means and had its fair share of problems (I personally didn't like Lightning as protagonist, wasn't a fan of the voice acting and found it mostly underwhelming) but it was still pretty solid, certainly better than the vats majority of video game storylines.

But ok, if you want an amazing series that's extremely differentiated among its different installments, try Portal.

Smasandian
That's not totally fair.

Comparing the different between two major releases to Portal is kind of wrong.

First of all, Portal was a 2 hour add-on to the two main events in TF2 and Episode 2, and lastly, Portal 2 was a full on game. Of course it would be different than the first. But it's only difference is that it made the narrative more prevalent and added fluid mechanics. The concept is the same. It plays the same too.

Ben "cA" Risa
Well, as short, low budget, and low key as Portal may have been it still had far more in the way of meaningful design to offer than the vast majority of 30h+ games and packed those two hours full of innovative puzzles, amazing pacing, absolutely no filler and a number of interesting game mechanics.

Portal 2 on the other hand was as you said more polished and had a more expansive storyline, but on top of that featured a number of new mechanics (the paint, energy bridge, and energy tube) and added an entirely separate and expansive co-op campaign, that all together took the game to the next level. The puzzles in general became much bigger and better. It utilized the core portal concept and most of the elements seen in the original, but it added so much more as to differentiate the two games pretty drastically.

Metal Gear Solid's another great example.

Quincy
Originally posted by cdtm
PS2 is a last gen console, but had a lot of crossover with current gen games.

Basically, I want to put Persona 4 on the list, and am wondering if being on a last gen console disqualifies it, even though it was squarely going head to head with the 360 and ps3 games at the time.. (Thus, you can argue it, along with many PS2 games, were games "of" this generation based on when they were released...)

I've been playing Persona 3 on the PSN lately and I'm absolutely addicted to it. Have you played both? And if so, how much better is Persona 4?

Smasandian
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
Well, as short, low budget, and low key as Portal may have been it still had far more in the way of meaningful design to offer than the vast majority of 30h+ games and packed those two hours full of innovative puzzles, amazing pacing, absolutely no filler and a number of interesting game mechanics.

Portal 2 on the other hand was as you said more polished and had a more expansive storyline, but on top of that featured a number of new mechanics (the paint, energy bridge, and energy tube) and added an entirely separate and expansive co-op campaign, that all together took the game to the next level. The puzzles in general became much bigger and better. It utilized the core portal concept and most of the elements seen in the original, but it added so much more as to differentiate the two games pretty drastically.

Metal Gear Solid's another great example.

I'm not disagreeing that Portal wasn't fantastic and innovating.

I'm just saying that you can't really compare a series like Mass Effect to Portal. Of course Portal 2 would be different. The reason is because Portal is 2 hours long and a concept. Can't compare. We could if Portal 3 gets made.

Quincy
We could compare enjoyment between the two. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who rould rather play Portal than ME.

Not me though. Mordin's a boss.

Ben "cA" Risa
Originally posted by Smasandian
I'm not disagreeing that Portal wasn't fantastic and innovating.

I'm just saying that you can't really compare a series like Mass Effect to Portal. Of course Portal 2 would be different. The reason is because Portal is 2 hours long and a concept. Can't compare. We could if Portal 3 gets made.

I personally believe that Portal has more to offer in its two hours of gameplay than the entirety of the Mass Effect trilogy, as far as meaningful design is concerned. Mass Effect basically plays the exact same way the entire trilogy; Portal on the offer hand provides a new intellectual experience with every new puzzle. To add to and improve on the design of Portal is imo far more impressive than any changes made in the Mass Effect trilogy.

BackFire
Really, this whole discussion about Portal and ME is just going to come down to what you're looking for out of a game and what portions of the game is most important to you.

Yes, Portal is much more innovative in its level design and gameplay mechanics.

However, it's important to remember that the ME series is story/character based and so that's where most of the attention went. It's the characters that are most important in that series. One of the few times where story/characters are the most important aspect of the game. It's how ME1 was able to succeed. Mediocre gameplay with outstanding character writing and a sense that your choices mattered. The ME series is a shining monolithic example of how the video game medium can garner a greater connection to characters than any other medium is capable of.

Its gameplay isn't too innovative, though by the third game I found the strategic element of using the powers to be pretty unique to that style of third person shooter. The gameplay isn't what people will remember about the series, though. They weren't meant to.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
I gave you all the opportunity in the world to respond NemeBro; you had your opportunity and you didn't take it. You can't have expected me to keep the response in my sig forever.

Back on topic now please. I have other things to do my socking friend than pay attention to your clown-like antics.

You made a claim. Back it the **** up.

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by Quincy
I've been playing Persona 3 on the PSN lately and I'm absolutely addicted to it. Have you played both? And if so, how much better is Persona 4?

Persona 4 has better gameplay mechanics, but I generally preferred 3's characters, storylines and themes, but that's mostly personal preferences.

Both are amazing games though, and you should definitely try 4 after you're done 3, though that means either finding a PS2 copy somewhere or getting Golden on Vita.

Ben "cA" Risa
Originally posted by NemeBro
I have other things to do my socking friend than pay attention to your clown-like antics.

You made a claim. Back it the **** up.

As I've told you numerous times, I had placed a comprehensive and conclusive argument in my sig and given you ample time to read it and respond. You missed your window, and I do not have time to reformulate that argument.

However, I will give you one example, if you ask nicely, and promise to get back on topic after I have given it to you.

I await your response, boy.

Ben "cA" Risa
Originally posted by BackFire
Really, this whole discussion about Portal and ME is just going to come down to what you're looking for out of a game and what portions of the game is most important to you.

Yes, Portal is much more innovative in its level design and gameplay mechanics.

However, it's important to remember that the ME series is story/character based and so that's where most of the attention went. It's the characters that are most important in that series. One of the few times where story/characters are the most important aspect of the game. It's how ME1 was able to succeed. Mediocre gameplay with outstanding character writing and a sense that your choices mattered. The ME series is a shining monolithic example of how the video game medium can garner a greater connection to characters than any other medium is capable of.

Its gameplay isn't too innovative, though by the third game I found the strategic element of using the powers to be pretty unique to that style of third person shooter. The gameplay isn't what people will remember about the series, though. They weren't meant to.

By the same token I wouldn't say its storyline was particularly imaginative, nor was each game highly differentiated in that regard either.

BackFire
The scale of the story was different in each game by quite a significant margin. Also, as I said, it was more the characters that made the series memorable, rather than the plot itself. The characters were imaginative and extremely round and well developed.

-Pr-
Originally posted by BackFire
The scale of the story was different in each game by quite a significant margin. Also, as I said, it was more the characters that made the series memorable, rather than the plot itself. The characters were imaginative and extremely round and well developed.

Yup. And some even stood out above the others, like Jack.

Peach
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
As I've told you numerous times, I had placed a comprehensive and conclusive argument in my sig and given you ample time to read it and respond. You missed your window, and I do not have time to reformulate that argument.

However, I will give you one example, if you ask nicely, and promise to get back on topic after I have given it to you.

I await your response, boy.

Make your argument properly in a forum post, or don't bother. For all that you claim that you don't have the time for it, you certainly have plenty of time to tell people that you don't have time.

Also, I've told you once to knock it off with the backseat modding. This is officially a warning, and it will be a ban if you continue.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Peach
Make your argument properly in a forum post, or don't bother. For all that you claim that you don't have the time for it, you certainly have plenty of time to tell people that you don't have time.

Also, I've told you once to knock it off with the backseat modding. This is officially a warning, and it will be a ban if you continue.

The guy's trolling is becoming quite obvious now.

Ben "cA" Risa
Originally posted by BackFire
The scale of the story was different in each game by quite a significant margin. Also, as I said, it was more the characters that made the series memorable, rather than the plot itself. The characters were imaginative and extremely round and well developed.

I don't see how you could possibly consider the characters imaginative. I agree that they were well detailed but they were not in any way original and imo they weren't at all compelling. The characters in something like Zero Escape or Metal Gear were far more interesting and better designed.

Ben "cA" Risa
Originally posted by Peach
Make your argument properly in a forum post, or don't bother. For all that you claim that you don't have the time for it, you certainly have plenty of time to tell people that you don't have time.

Also, I've told you once to knock it off with the backseat modding. This is officially a warning, and it will be a ban if you continue.

Define backseat modding please.

Also we should probably take this to PMs.

Peach
You've been told repeatedly to stop telling people what to do as though you have any authority to do so, and you keep doing it.

It's not up for discussion.

Ben "cA" Risa
So basically is the backseat modding okay as long as I do not express it as a command?

For example, am I allowed to politely remind people to stay on topic?

NemeBro
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
As I've told you numerous times, I had placed a comprehensive and conclusive argument in my sig and given you ample time to read it and respond. You missed your window, and I do not have time to reformulate that argument.

However, I will give you one example, if you ask nicely, and promise to get back on topic after I have given it to you.

I await your response, boy. Shut the **** up and provide your argument you disgusting verminous cretin. Scum of the earth not worth licking my boots.

Ben "cA" Risa
You shut up now b1tch and respond to my PMs.

Impediment
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
So basically is the backseat modding okay as long as I do not express it as a command?

For example, am I allowed to politely remind people to stay on topic?

Uh....................no.

BackFire
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
I don't see how you could possibly consider the characters imaginative. I agree that they were well detailed but they were not in any way original and imo they weren't at all compelling. The characters in something like Zero Escape or Metal Gear were far more interesting and better designed.

No they aren't. The characters in Metal Gear games are little more than caricatures. They're too exaggerated and over the top to be taken seriously. The ones in Mass Effect are much more grounded and believable and while they may seem one dimensional when you first meet them they develop true depth as you talk to them, which alone is enough to warrant massive praise with how awful most games are at creating decent characters.

Peach
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
So basically is the backseat modding okay as long as I do not express it as a command?

For example, am I allowed to politely remind people to stay on topic?

What part of "no backseat modding" and "this is not up for discussion" do you not understand?

Another word and it's a ban. My patience is over.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by BackFire
No they aren't. The characters in Metal Gear games are little more than caricatures. They're too exaggerated and over the top to be taken seriously. The ones in Mass Effect are much more grounded and believable and while they may seem one dimensional when you first meet them they develop true depth as you talk to them, which alone is enough to warrant massive praise with how awful most games are at creating decent characters. thumb up

Ben "cA" Risa
Originally posted by BackFire
No they aren't. The characters in Metal Gear games are little more than caricatures. They're too exaggerated and over the top to be taken seriously. The ones in Mass Effect are much more grounded and believable and while they may seem one dimensional when you first meet them they develop true depth as you talk to them, which alone is enough to warrant massive praise with how awful most games are at creating decent characters.

There is no standard by which realism can be considered objectively superior to the fantastical, and in many ways it can in fact stifle creativity and do little to differentiate itself. Metal Gear in general may at times be a little fantastical but it still captures all of the complexity and depth that we see in the real world and makes you just as invested in the drama provided you suspend your disbelief a little.

Mass Effect's characters possess a lot of depth but I give little credit to the developers given that it is easy to extensively explore a character's personality given enough time and the fact that they had such a formulaic method of doing it. For the most part, we find out about each of the characters (party members) in the exact same way, by conversing with them and learning about their backstories, beliefs, personal goals etc. and its the exact same method for all of the characters, and you typically explore all of them during the same interval between missions. The characters do or reveal little of note about themselves during the actual campaign and the whole process comes across as a little repetitive and stale. Depth alone does not make a character interesting, it is how that depth is presented to you and in Mass Effect it is almost entirely through these formulaic conversations.

Some of the conversations in Metal Gear may be bizarrely timed and sure some of the characters come across as a little outlandish but for the most part the games feature a number of new, interesting characters with each installment and we typically learn about them in a far more organic and interesting way.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa

Mass Effect's characters possess a lot of depth but I give little credit to the developers given that it is easy to extensively explore a character's personality given enough time You know nothing about writing.

Go away.

Zack Fair
MGS characters just get more and more ridiculous with each installment. Part of Kojima's trolling no doubt.

wakkawakkawakka
Well the main cast, not the super human bosses, seem to be pretty grounded like Meryl, Otacon, Snake, and Cambell. I would say Raiden but Revengence threw any chance of that straight to hell.

Then again Mass Effect characters do have a bit more depth to them.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
Mass Effect's characters possess a lot of depth but I give little credit to the developers given that it is easy to extensively explore a character's personality given enough time and the fact that they had such a formulaic method of doing it. For the most part, we find out about each of the characters (party members) in the exact same way, by conversing with them and learning about their backstories, beliefs, personal goals etc. and its the exact same method for all of the characters, and you typically explore all of them during the same interval between missions.

Says the guy with the visual novel boner, which are games where all you do is talk to people over large portions of time.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Well the main cast, not the super human bosses, seem to be pretty grounded like Meryl, Otacon, Snake, and Cambell. I would say Raiden but Revengence threw any chance of that straight to hell.

Then again Mass Effect characters do have a bit more depth to them. Exactly. i was going to elaborate on how each new unit just kept getting weirder and weirder, but was too lazy.

FOXHOUND was weird, but they still felt like a real elite unit. Mantis was the weirdest of the bunch, but his psychic powers pretty much kindda force his design to be like that.

Dead Cell gave us Fortune, who was pretty cool in my book. Then it gave us Vamp...who was all right except for a few things that bothered me. Then it gave us a fat bastard on roller blades. LoL What?

FOX is the clear winner. I thought Mantis was LOL WTF is this shit freaky...then I met The Fear.

Beauty n' the beast - LOL. All I gotta say. Their cyborg designs were cool as all **** though.

-Pr-
Metal Gear has "cool" villains, but tbh, I don't think any of them can match the depth and complexity of some of the characters in Mass Effect, especially ME2. ME2 is one of the few games that actually made me care about my teammates, and hope that not just Shepard, but they too, made it through the game in one piece.

Zack Fair
I still remember all the casualties and how they went down the first time I attempted the suicide mission without being prepared.

RIP Thane, Legion and Jack. Never made it into the collector ship.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Zack Fair
I still remember all the casualties and how they went down the first time I attempted the suicide mission without being prepared.

RIP Thane, Legion and Jack. Never made it into the collector ship.

Damn.

My first time, I made it on to the ship, but during the mission I lost Thane, Mordin and Kasumi. Then I found out that you could get everyone through alive and in one piece.

I started the entire game again just so I could save them all.

Morridini
I never lost anyone in the Suicide Mission the first time I did it, I kinda wish I did so that the game would have had a higher impact on me.

Tzeentch._
I lost Thane, Jack and legion on the ship as well.

I despised the mining mini-game so much that I never bought any of the ship upgrades. lol

In my first playthrough I was so butthurt watching those guys die. I immediately started up a new game once the ending credits rolled.

-Pr-
I had actually done the mining; I just made choices during the mission that I thought were sound tactically, but the game mechanics decided differently.

Smasandian
I did the mining as well. It sucked. Bioware basically said it sucked, they tried to fix it with a patch and then replaced it completely.

I still liked traversing the planets in the first game the best. For the second, I wanted to fix the mechanics and make each planet you visited more unique and have something interesting to them.

My first playthrough, everybody survived. On my second play through, Mordin died.

Ben "cA" Risa
Originally posted by Nephthys
Says the guy with the visual novel boner, which are games where all you do is talk to people over large portions of time.

The problem with Mass Effect isn't the basic method of conversing with the characters, it's the practice of doing so in a formulaic manner. Visual novels (which consists of both narration as well as dialogue) depending on the type of story they wish to tell will have the characters interact dynamically over the course of the game; Mass Effect by comparison follows a strict formula and has you interact with the characters at specific intervals all together in much the same manner - you even have Shepard using the same stock dialogue when asking some of the more general questions and the conversations flow very similarly with each character. The conversations in general also do not flow very well with the timing of your own player input and how the camera moves around during them. Videogames absolutely possess their own unique functions and advantages in telling a story but the answer is not to utilize these at the expense of other cinematic and literary functions and that is largely what these formulaic conversation systems do. The pacing is just off entirely and there's a reason you don't see it in literature and cinema.

Ben "cA" Risa
Originally posted by NemeBro
You know nothing about writing.

Go away.

In what way does it require any real skill to add a lot of detail to a character's personality? The skill lies in the telling of it and making that personality interesting; it is my opinion that the characters in Mass Effect were not.

However I'm sure you're still a little butthurt about losing our exchange earlier - in humiliating fashion might I add - so this little indiscretion can be forgiven. Now go fetch me my croissants you whore.

Ben "cA" Risa
Originally posted by Zack Fair
Exactly. i was going to elaborate on how each new unit just kept getting weirder and weirder, but was too lazy.

FOXHOUND was weird, but they still felt like a real elite unit. Mantis was the weirdest of the bunch, but his psychic powers pretty much kindda force his design to be like that.

Dead Cell gave us Fortune, who was pretty cool in my book. Then it gave us Vamp...who was all right except for a few things that bothered me. Then it gave us a fat bastard on roller blades. LoL What?

FOX is the clear winner. I thought Mantis was LOL WTF is this shit freaky...then I met The Fear.

Beauty n' the beast - LOL. All I gotta say. Their cyborg designs were cool as all **** though.

I submit that Fatman was more interesting than any character in Mass Effect, no matter how bizarre he may have been.

-Pr-
Did you even play Mass Effect? Because that's an awfully massive (and definitely inaccurate, imo) statement to make.

Or maybe you know that, and you just really hate ME and want to get a rise out of people.

Ben "cA" Risa
Yes I have played it and I chose Fatman specifically to highlight the fact that people are exaggerating the bizarreness of some of the characters and ignoring what makes those characters interesting. Thus, I present to you the most bizarre character by far in Metal Gear canon, and submit that he is more interesting than any character in Mass Effect.

Quincy
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Persona 4 has better gameplay mechanics, but I generally preferred 3's characters, storylines and themes, but that's mostly personal preferences.

Both are amazing games though, and you should definitely try 4 after you're done 3, though that means either finding a PS2 copy somewhere or getting Golden on Vita.

I'm going to have to track that down then.

Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
So basically is the backseat modding okay as long as I do not express it as a command?

For example, am I allowed to politely remind people to stay on topic?

eek!

Zack Fair
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
I submit that Fatman was more interesting than any character in Mass Effect, no matter how bizarre he may have been. facepalm

wakkawakkawakka
So uh...really? MGS has a vampire, robots, and a ghost yet the most interesting character is a fatman on roller blades.

Well Mass Effect also has those things so I guess its cool.

Zack Fair
Fatman is not the most bizarre MGS character, though he is up there in terms of ridiculousness.

Fear is more bizarre and retarded if you ask me.

wakkawakkawakka
I always figured it was Volgin that was the most ridiculous. Dude actually had superpowers...I mean like comic bookish levels of superpowers. At least the others barring the Sorrow are kind of plausible though The Fear is pretty retarted in terms of realism.

Ben "cA" Risa
I never said Fatman was the most interesting character, I in fact singled him out for being one of the lesser characters as well as the single most bizarre of the series, and still being a better character than any seen in the Mass Effect franchise.

For one thing, naming a mad bomb maker after the atomic bomb that detonated over Nagasaki, "Fat Man", and then taking it to the literal extreme of making it his defining physical characteristic was a beautiful piece of irony that tied in to the general outlandish and unlikable nature of the character. Having this horribly grotesque individual who's not only insane but one of the premier terrorists of the game equipped with this giant bomb suit, and then having him glide along on these rollerskates with a cocktail in hand not only highlighted the bizarre, insane, contradictory nature of his character, but it did so with style. As he himself claimed, he was the best and the worst that humanity had to offer, and underneath the madness and ugliness there was genuine genius, pride, and artistry. He considered his hands, and the role they had in his work of making bombs, as the most important part of himself and took care of them to the point that they were as delicate and soft as those of a baby. He would mark bombs of his design with his very own fragrance as a personal signature of his work, he had his own unique philosophy regarding bombs and their nature and he truly was a genius at the art elevating it to a level that it had never before attained.

A really good job was also done with the writing and voice acting to really deliver the character they wished to portray. The character was bizarre, unlikable, disgusting in many ways, and it wasn't particularly important as far as the series is concerned, but it doesn't mean it wasn't a well crafted one, particularly when you also consider the gameplay implications. Having this overweight character in a bomb suit on rollerskates going around and planting bombs made for a really awesome boss battle - it made him durable, fast, and he would hide the bombs in pretty good places, making the job of locating and disposing the bombs while fending off his attacks a really challenging and engaging gameplay segment. Hiding the final bomb under his person - another application of his persona as a fat man - was also a pretty clever move.

I didn't once encounter a single character in Mass Effect that I would consider at all interesting.

-Pr-
I'm convinced at this point that you haven't actually played the ME series, or that you did and you just hate them.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
In what way does it require any real skill to add a lot of detail to a character's personality? The skill lies in the telling of it and making that personality interesting; it is my opinion that the characters in Mass Effect were not.

However I'm sure you're still a little butthurt about losing our exchange earlier - in humiliating fashion might I add - so this little indiscretion can be forgiven. Now go fetch me my croissants you whore. You're changing the point to suit your own idiotic argument, or lack thereof.

Piling detail after detail onto characters is easy. Forming a realistically developed character, with ambitions, emotions, and reactions that flow together smoothly is very hard.

You never posted your argument you stupid ass-ramming pedophile. You're a limp-dicked pussy, all bark no bite, making long posts filled with no content.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Ben "cA" Risa
For one thing, naming a mad bomb maker after the atomic bomb that detonated over Nagasaki, "Fat Man", and then taking it to the literal extreme of making it his defining physical characteristic was a beautiful piece of irony that tied in to the general outlandish and unlikable nature of the character.

That isn't ironic.



Why are you devoting so many posts to highlight that he is "bizarre"? We accept that. Stop padding your posts to make lesser minds believe they have content.



Hey this is actually true.



That the bombs serve as an analogy to the finality of life? Ticking down to the end of its own existence. Yeah sure that was okay I guess, but his actual ambition was pretty generic. "The be the most famous bomber of them all!"



The voice acting was okay. It was hammy and slobber-mouthed. A decent choice for the character, but hardly particularly notable.



Stop repeating yourself.



Only the final sentence has any relevance towards his character.



Well of course not, because you prefer roller-blading caricatures designed to be living anti-bomb propaganda.

Ben "cA" Risa
Originally posted by NemeBro
You're changing the point to suit your own idiotic argument, or lack thereof.

Piling detail after detail onto characters is easy. Forming a realistically developed character, with ambitions, emotions, and reactions that flow together smoothly is very hard.

You never posted your argument you stupid ass-ramming pedophile. You're a limp-dicked pussy, all bark no bite, making long posts filled with no content.

Listen young lady that is exactly what I way saying. Depth alone requires no skill, which is simply what adding a lot of detail onto a character's personality is.



Yes it is.



The point was that his image adds style to his madness to the point of extravagance.



Concession accepted.



Now you see it. Also I'd hardly say that ambition was exactly a defining trait, so it can be forgiven for being a little generic. What are the excuses of the Mass Effect villains?



As it was supposed to be, as you acknowledge. It wasn't super notable, but again, let me remind you that he wasn't exactly the most notable of characters in the first place. The game simply did a very good job with him, from the voice acting to his own dialogue, to his visual design, gameplay design and other characters' commentary on him.



Buddy sometimes the music and poetry of a master wordsmith calls for a little repetition.



I was talking about Fatman as a character, not just his character, and as this is a videogame I would absolutely consider it a relevant part of the character. Not only was Fatman an interesting character, but the same traits that added to his personality also had excellent use in a gamepley context.



As I said, I picked Fatman for the reason that he wasn't a stand out character in the Metal Gear franchise. That he still could be considered a more interesting character than anybody from Mass Effect speaks volumes to the disparity of the two series in their storytelling merits.

-Pr-
Jack is a far more interesting, layered and well developed character than Fatman, imo. And dare I say, at the very least the equal if not superior of any character in the MGS saga, who are more like abstract themes and archetypes than actual people, tbh.

So is Miranda. And Thane. Garrus too. And Liara (if we include the SB dlc). And those are just your team-mates.

I honestly don't see what makes Fatman so much better, tbh, and I've played MGS 2 several times.

MGS might have a more complicated and layered story to it, but Mass Effect does a hell of a lot more to draw human emotions and reactions from the player, and to make you sympathise (and even empathise) more with the characters throughout.

The characters feel more like actual people, and that is incredibly hard to do in a video game, especially to do it so consistently, which Bioware did.

Ben "cA" Risa
I'd actually say the complicated plot and well imagined setting in Metal Gear in fact comes second to its drama and characters. Mass Effect never comes close to reaching the emotional highs of the MGS3 ending, some of the more emotional conversations between Jack and Rose, Naomi's revelation, Meryl being used as bait in MGS1, the microwave scene in MGS4, the MGS4 ending, returning to Shadow Moses, the final battle between Liquid Ocelot and Snake etc.

What most people are saying about Metal Gear characters being bizarre and caricatures etc. only really applies to the supporting cast of villains (and that doesn't mean they're not good characters; you'd have to be undeniably crazy to suggest that The End was not a remarkably conceived character). The primary villains and the heroic characters all feel far more human and serious.

The conversations in Metal Gear are also far more interesting and flow far more naturally than those in Mass Effect. It's also worth noting that they have very similar voice acting talents on their games and yet they do so much of a better job at utilizing them in Metal Gear than they do in Mass Effect.

Edit - I find this argument kind of ridiculous in all honesty. Metal Gear is basically a study on how to develop interesting characters in videogames. That you actually have characters as brilliant as The End, Fortune, Null, Psycho Mantis basically serve as insignificant supporting characters is pretty remarkable. Mass Effect creates uninteresting characters and then just spends a lot of time developing them. Mass Effect spends more time with those characters, Metal Gear on the other hand makes much better use of that time simply with better storytelling and a better understanding of cinema. It's really not remotely close.

Ushgarak
Ok, we've reached the point where the discussion should be spun off to its own topic if it wants to go on. let's leave this thread clear for other people making nominations.

Nephthys
Its criminal that no-ones mentioned The Witcher 2 yet.

-Pr-
Still haven't finished the first one, and I don't want to skip ahead.

Phanteros
Originally posted by Nephthys
Its criminal that no-ones mentioned The Witcher 2 yet. yeah can't really have a best game of the generation thread without it.

To add Dark Souls
Metro series
Red Dead
Infamous series
X com EU
Dishonored
Crusader kings 2
Distant worlds

Phanteros
Does Dwarf fortress count as well?

jaden101
Crikey...Hard to think back. For me it'd probably be in no particular order

Assassin's Creed Revelations, Brotherhood and 2
Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Force Unleashed
Sleeping Dogs
CoD: Modern Warfare 1
Red Dead Redemption
GRAW 2
Alan Wake
Ballad of Gay Tony

If there's one game I would've liked to have played but never had the console to do it it would probably be Heavy Rain which would've probably went on my list as it really seemed up my street.

ares834
Well with the release of The Last of Us I have to amend my list.

1. Mass Effect 2
2. The Last of Us
3. Skyrim
4. Witcher 2
5. Portal

BackFire
Same. Last of Us is going somewhere on my list. No idea where, though. I'll have to reflect on the game some more.

Smasandian
Revised list. In no particular order:

Mass Effect 3
Red Dead Redemption
Portal 2
Crysis 2
Battlefield 3
Bioshock
Gears of War
Uncharted 2
Fallout 3
TF2

Most disappointing:

Super Mario Galaxy 2
Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Crysis 3
Perfect Dark Zero
Rage
Alien Vs Predator
Uncharted 3
Dragon Age 2
Far Cry 2
THE LACK OF HALF LIFE 3

Surprising:

Alan Wake
Batman: Arkham Asluym
Enslaved: Oydssey to the West
Hotline Miami
Super Meat Boy
LA Noire
Prey
Rainbow Six Vegas

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