How would Superman fit in the Marvel U if they bought the rights to him?

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lawest9
Thev title says it all, any suggestions?

-Pr-
Badly. Guys like Bendis wouldn't know how to handle a guy like Superman, and I honestly feel like Marvel doesn't have the right attitude or writers to use him properly in the way DC does, which really is the best way imo.

Igniz
Originally posted by -Pr-
Badly. Guys like Bendis wouldn't know how to handle a guy like Superman, and I honestly feel like Marvel doesn't have the right attitude or writers to use him properly in the way DC does, which really is the best way imo.

I was thinking of the Gladiator treatment of Superman.

lawest9
Originally posted by -Pr-
Badly. Guys like Bendis wouldn't know how to handle a guy like Superman, and I honestly feel like Marvel doesn't have the right attitude or writers to use him properly in the way DC does, which really is the best way imo. Think Superman fans would he highly insulted?

-Pr-
Originally posted by Igniz
I was thinking of the Gladiator treatment of Superman.

Precisely.

Originally posted by lawest9
Think Superman fans would he highly insulted?

Yup.

Supermex
Same as Gladiator, Sentry, Hyperion and Blue Marvel

Either they die, float around in space or live on Earth without a story like Blue Marvel...

Also Raw meat for Hulk and Thor to beat up like they done with the others..

lawest9
With Superman being SUPERMAN.............I find it hard to helieve that Marvel would be THAT disrespectful of the worlds most well known superhero and their fans.

lawest9
BELIEVE..............sorry for the typo.

-Pr-
I could see them doing it just to **** with DC for a while, before trying to use him semi-intelligently.

Sad thing is, they'd probably turn him in to another Hyperion, with the way their world is set up.

Branlor Swift
Superman just isn't cut out for the dangers of Marvel.

First Badoon invasion and it's time to hang up the cape... If he makes it out alive

abhilegend
He would be better than Thor and Surfer at least.

Igniz
Originally posted by abhilegend
He would be better than Thor and Surfer at least.

By better, do you mean being a better punching bag for Hulk if the writer was Bendis? stick out tongue

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by -Pr-
Badly. Guys like Bendis wouldn't know how to handle a guy like Superman, and I honestly feel like Marvel doesn't have the right attitude or writers to use him properly in the way DC does, which really is the best way imo.

I can see some writers using him well. It's editorial you'd have to worry about, imo.

Considering the buzz such an acquisition would cause, I'd doubt Marvel would job him out or bury his character out of pettiness instead of trying to market the hell out of the guy and rake in money.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Igniz
By better, do you mean being a better punching bag for Hulk if the writer was Bendis? stick out tongue
Seeing how superman has always out-punched hulk when it was written and published by marvel, I doubt it.

lawest9
Originally posted by abhilegend
Seeing how superman has always out-punched hulk when it was written and published by marvel, I doubt it. That makes a lot of sense.

Igniz
Originally posted by abhilegend
Seeing how superman has always out-punched hulk when it was written and published by marvel, I doubt it.

I did say Bendis.The guy is known for ignoring character histories.Most likely Superman will be given a jobber treatment in the Marvel Universe.

Spire
It depends entirely upon how one views Superman. Is Clark the mask or is Superman the mask? Personally, I don't think Superman fits in with the concept of the Marvel universe well.

Also, creators and editors work have worked for both companies so they know who characters are regardless of the logo on the cover. Just depends on how heavy handed the orders from the top are and whether they lower his standing in relation to other well-known Marvel heroes.

If the TC is looking for battle board stuff then its basically, Superman is Superman and everybody knows this. He'd still be a top tier ass beater.

Diesldude
Originally posted by -Pr-
I could see them doing it just to **** with DC for a while, before trying to use him semi-intelligently.

I agree with this, they will treat him as a step child to show how much more powerful their characters are to DC.

JakeTheBank
I really don't think so. Maybe someone like Bendis would because he's an ass, but you have several people who have worked for DC prior to joining Marvel in addition to plenty of writers actually liking Superman, too.

I can see them making Superman stalemate or have inconclusive battles with the likes of Hulk, Thor, or Surfer, but I don't see them trashing the character just for battle board purposes. He'd instantly become a top draw and shitting on him wouldn't help them financially. Sure, jobbing would inevitably occur (as it does for every character), but the reality is likely that Marvel would instantly begin to make their universe be molded around him.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Igniz
I did say Bendis.The guy is known for ignoring character histories.Most likely Superman will be given a jobber treatment in the Marvel Universe.
Bendis is a huge superman fan. I don't think he would job superman out.

the Darkone
Bendis p**ked up Avengers, I wouldn't have him come near Superman. I rather some one like Hickman, Jeph Loeb at least he wrote some decent Superman, Dan Jurgens etc, Bendis hell to the NO!!

lawest9
Originally posted by Igniz
I did say Bendis.The guy is known for ignoring character histories.Most likely Superman will be given a jobber treatment in the Marvel Universe. The Hulk?!.............are you dure that Bendis and Carver9 are not one and the same?????..................hahahahahahahahahaha.

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I can see some writers using him well. It's editorial you'd have to worry about, imo.

Considering the buzz such an acquisition would cause, I'd doubt Marvel would job him out or bury his character out of pettiness instead of trying to market the hell out of the guy and rake in money.

I know I'd trust Mark Waid; but the Marvel "style" just isn't conducive to Superman, imo.

That, and given Joe Q's opinions of the character, I can't see them using him well, tbh.

Zack Fair
I don't want Superman to develop some kind of mental disability/addiction/dark past. Which would happen in Marvel =\

-Pr-
Originally posted by Zack Fair
I don't want Superman to develop some kind of metal disability/addiction/dark past. Which would happen in Marvel =\

Yep.

JakeTheBank
Eh, I think you guys aren't giving Marvel enough credit. I have no doubt they'd do some weird stuff, but they wouldn't wreck his character completely when they know they can make bank off the guy as is. There are some writers I definitely wouldn't want handling him, but considering Bendis isn't the main guy in Marvel anymore and Quesada isn't the editor-in-chief, he'd be respected more often than not.

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Eh, I think you guys aren't giving Marvel enough credit. I have no doubt they'd do some weird stuff, but they wouldn't wreck his character completely when they know they can make bank off the guy as is. There are some writers I definitely wouldn't want handling him, but considering Bendis isn't the main guy in Marvel anymore and Quesada isn't the editor-in-chief, he'd be respected more often than not.

Quesada's not the boss anymore?

JakeTheBank
No, Axel Alonso is.

TheHulk
Originally posted by -Pr-
Quesada's not the boss anymore? Lol how long did it took you to figure that out?

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
No, Axel Alonso is.

Ah; that's something I guess.

I'd still wonder, though, about how Superman would fit in to the world. I mean, do you really think he'd have the same status in Marvel as he does in DC? While I think that Marvel does plenty of things better than DC and vice versa, earth-based solo herald books really aren't one of them.

Not to mention the inherent cynicism that most Marvel citizens seem to have. If Marvel wanted to make Superman work, they'd have to make some massive changes imo, and I don't see that happening.

Originally posted by TheHulk
Lol how long did it took you to figure that out?

Quesada's a ****, so I try to avoid reading about him as much as possible.

Oliver North
The biggest issue I see would be the fact that Marvel really doesn't have a Superman shaped hole in its roster. As a character, they have people that represent the things he stands for, in broader terms. They have numerous equally powerful characters, and even direct clones.

There would just be no stories to write, save stuff that seemed like it was ripped off of Captain America or fan service of having him fight their favorite character in cannon.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by -Pr-
Ah; that's something I guess.

I'd still wonder, though, about how Superman would fit in to the world. I mean, do you really think he'd have the same status in Marvel as he does in DC? While I think that Marvel does plenty of things better than DC and vice versa, earth-based solo herald books really aren't one of them.

Not to mention the inherent cynicism that most Marvel citizens seem to have. If Marvel wanted to make Superman work, they'd have to make some massive changes imo, and I don't see that happening.

I think he would, yeah. I can't see them jobbing him out in power or making him anything less than a staple of the Marvel Universe.

I think he'd inherently be the same guy, but he'd basically have to help recapture the public's trust and faith in goodness. To that end, I think Marvel would put over the "never ending battle" aspect of Superman a lot; he would never quite inspire the populace to the point that he did in DC, but he'd never stop trying. And he'd still be making a difference.

Spire
A wild villain appears!

Superman: This looks like a job for Superman!

Avengers, Thor: Lawlzorz! Can you believe this Mutha****** here?

Avengers, Cap: J-just ignore him.. Avengers assemble!

Superman: Its alright I got this.

Avengers, Ironman: **** off dude.

Superman: But I'm Superman....?

The end.

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I think he would, yeah. I can't see them jobbing him out in power or making him anything less than a staple of the Marvel Universe.

I think he'd inherently be the same guy, but he'd basically have to help recapture the public's trust and faith in goodness. To that end, I think Marvel would put over the "never ending battle" aspect of Superman a lot; he would never quite inspire the populace to the point that he did in DC, but he'd never stop trying. And he'd still be making a difference.

I think you just proved my point, though, that he wouldn't be as well represented in Marvel as he is in DC. stick out tongue

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by -Pr-
I think you just proved my point, though, that he wouldn't be as well represented in Marvel as he is in DC. stick out tongue

Fair enough.

But ultimately, I think he, the character, wouldn't be portrayed as anything less than one of the most powerful beings on the planet as well as one of the inherently purest of heart, noble, heroic dudes around. I think the real stark difference would be the public reception of him.

In DC, before too terribly long, the public generally trusts Superman (they have their moments of doubt, but they're all the more hopeful and optimistic). In Marvel, I think he would inspire them, but superhuman paranoia and distrust of heroes is more prevalent and Superman would likely be working twice as hard to prove he's a good guy, which is sort of the theme (or one of them) that JLA/Avengers was trying to hit on in comparison to both universes.

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Fair enough.

But ultimately, I think he, the character, wouldn't be portrayed as anything less than one of the most powerful beings on the planet as well as one of the inherently purest of heart, noble, heroic dudes around. I think the real stark difference would be the public reception of him.

In DC, before too terribly long, the public generally trusts Superman (they have their moments of doubt, but they're all the more hopeful and optimistic). In Marvel, I think he would inspire them, but superhuman paranoia and distrust of heroes is more prevalent and Superman would likely be working twice as hard to prove he's a good guy, which is sort of the theme (or one of them) that JLA/Avengers was trying to hit on in comparison to both universes.

That's fair enough.

I do think Superman would also lose an element of how "special" he is, in terms of his central role in things. Marvel wouldn't make Superman the "go to guy" to the extent DC does.

At least, I don't think they would.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by -Pr-
That's fair enough.

I do think Superman would also lose an element of how "special" he is, in terms of his central role in things. Marvel wouldn't make Superman the "go to guy" to the extent DC does.

At least, I don't think they would.

I think he'd be treated as more of an outsider than he already is, but his initial arc introducing him to the Marvel U would be nothing less than a ginarmous arc giving love to the guy. After he was "settled in", I could see him quickly becoming a staple of the Marvel U.

Marvel's never really had a single "go to guy" (It's always felt like a toss up between Mr. Fantastic, Captain America, whichever X-Men team roster they're pushing at the moment, Doctor Strange, and Thor, imo depending on the threat type and scale) but Superman would always be involved when it came to major threats, imo.

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I think he'd be treated as more of an outsider than he already is, but his initial arc introducing him to the Marvel U would be nothing less than a ginarmous arc giving love to the guy. After he was "settled in", I could see him quickly becoming a staple of the Marvel U.

Marvel's never really had a single "go to guy" (It's always felt like a toss up between Mr. Fantastic, Captain America, Doctor Strange, and Thor, imo depending on the threat type and scale) but Superman would always be involved when it came to major threats, imo.

And that would be fine. I just don't think he'd shine as much in Marvel as he can (and does) at DC.

I couldn't see myself enjoying the comics knowing what i'd be missing out on if they hadn't bought the rights.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by -Pr-
And that would be fine. I just don't think he'd shine as much in Marvel as he can (and does) at DC.

I couldn't see myself enjoying the comics knowing what i'd be missing out on if they hadn't bought the rights.

Yeah, true.

Given the choice, I'd definitely prefer he stay at DC forever.

carver9
Has that ever happened? A DC character and Marvel character switch?

-Pr-
He'd still knock Hulk the **** out, though.

carver9
No he wouldn't.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
No he wouldn't.

Sorry; he'd knock him out twice.

lawest9
Originally posted by -Pr-
Sorry; he'd knock him out twice. Sure has.

Damborgson
Superman would still be the iconic suuperhero even if Marvel got him. I think he'd be treated better than his clones.

Or the Hulk violates him in his first appearance setting the stage for the return of the void right before Bendis is murdered by Abhi.

Placidity
If Hulk moved to DC, he would cry in every comic because no one would job to him.

Rao Kal El
I don't think they will do a good job with him.

Marvel has always complained that DC does not know how to handle superman, and that DC is just sitting on a gold mine with superman but they do not know how to exploit it.

Yet when Marvel has its hands around characters like Gladiator, Sentry and Blue Marvel, what do they do? Gladiator gets few showings and rarely if ever he saves the day, besides that he lacks the heroic character.

Sentry?.... lets not even touch that.

And the character who might have the heroic personality to be a really cool black superman is just sitting it around somewhere with out getting published.

How will Superman fit then? He will end up having the gladiator, Sentry or Blue Marvel treatment in the end.

753
he wouldn't fit. his morality would clash with most of the superheroe community's, the widespread animosity between baseline and super humans and the political struggles of mutants would be beyond him.

Endless Mike
I'm wondering if they would try to fit Krypton into the background of the MU or say he was from another universe/dimension.

TheHulk
Superman to MU?? That would be huge news.

carver9
Originally posted by Placidity
If Hulk moved to DC, he would cry in every comic because no one would job to him.

Hulk would be treated just like Grundy, The General, and Konvikt is treated (but on a better scale), he would tackle and probably run through the Justice League, especially since DC has acknowledged Hulk power of physically getting stronger and faster with rage.

tijay
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I think he'd be treated as more of an outsider than he already is, but his initial arc introducing him to the Marvel U would be nothing less than a ginarmous arc giving love to the guy. After he was "settled in", I could see him quickly becoming a staple of the Marvel U.

Marvel's never really had a single "go to guy" (It's always felt like a toss up between Mr. Fantastic, Captain America, whichever X-Men team roster they're pushing at the moment, Doctor Strange, and Thor, imo depending on the threat type and scale) but Superman would always be involved when it came to major threats, imo.

Spidey is always there. He may not be fighting Galactus but he still there

tijay
2 things
They are gonna have to do something with about the Kryptonite cos that will **** up shit for him fast
Why the **** hasnt Blue Marvel gotten more showings?

Eel O'Brien
I don't think he would job or be put in a corner somewhere. KMCers can say what they like, but battle boards don't turn profit and Superman is too HUGE of a property not to respect. Marvel and DC may be friendly, but at the end of the day, you know Marvel thinks they are better and could do better.

So here you have the biggest name/franchise in comics and DC still can't seem to generate the top numbers with him. Marvel would make all the changes they deem appropriate to make Superman resonate with comic buyers and push to make him as big as possible. So, in the end we have a Superman "marvel-ized" by about 30% who would no doubt generate huge sales at least initially.

Philosophía
He'd abuse Thor and make him dye his hair black, wear tiaras and swimsuits..

He'd throw Captain America's shield in the sun, draw pimples on his face with heat vision, have him wear bowties and give him a camera to take pictures of his victories...

etc.

Superman would do just fine.

leonidas
i agree with eel--marvel COULDN'T treat him with anything less than the highest regard. it's not like he's some unknown walking in. he's not sentry, or glads or any of the others. he has a history already established that is so far beyond those lame ass clones that it's not even funny. to think that marvel would treat him as they would those others speaks to how far faith in marvel in general has fallen i guess. which i find a little odd tbh. true, some of the big events haven't quite lived up to hype, but marvel is putting out some very good books imo, and in general i really like the marvel now 'relaunch'. i've personally no doubt that he would be viewed very near the same way in marvel as he is seen in dc. to do otherwise would be to change the character and more importantly would change the perception of the character, and that would be anathema to gaining him in the first place. to quote phil--he would be just fine. least imo.

JakeTheBank
thumb up

Golgo13
I really think Marvel could handle him well, until Bendis gets a hold of him. Then we'll see him job to someone like Iron Man or Luke Cage.

mighty adam
Supes Thor hulk on the same team it would be beautiful.

Oliver North
I don't think the issue is that he would job or be an insignificant part of the MU, its just that, he wouldn't really add anything to their roster, and to treat him as well as DC does, the character would have to change or the MU would. 753 brings up a really interesting point with the mutant/human division. Superman becomes less relevant in that context, not that he couldn't be shoehorned into that, but like Pr said, its that compared to what he could be in the DCU, that has almost been tailor designed for him.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
Hulk would be treated just like Grundy, The General, and Konvikt is treated (but on a better scale), he would tackle and probably run through the Justice League, especially since DC has acknowledged Hulk power of physically getting stronger and faster with rage.

No, that wouldn't happen at all, because Hulk is nothing like those characters.

janus77
lol,
You're probably the only person who can make Carver look reasonable.

-Pr-
Originally posted by janus77
lol,
You're probably the only person who can make Carver look reasonable.

If that was possible, I might agree with you.

But no.

janus77
IF you agreed, you might have undermined my point smile

-Pr-
shrug

Seriously though, Hulk fans wouldn't be happy if DC bought the rights, because at best he'd be treated like Grundy in terms of actual combat feats.

It doesn't help that he doesn't really fit in to DC earth either.

janus77
There's no point talking with you on Hulk. Your dislike of Carver clouds all things Hulk and your absolutist stance that Hulk is "nothing like" The General, Grundy etc ...

-Pr-
Originally posted by janus77
There's no point talking with you on Hulk. Your dislike of Carver clouds all things Hulk and your absolutist stance that Hulk is "nothing like" The General, Grundy etc ...

Feel free to keep believing that, as untrue as it is.

Newjak
Considering how much money they would have to fork out for him I doubt Marvel wouldn't do everything could to push Superman at the forefront.

-Pr-
The problem is what their "forefront" actually consists of.

dmills
With Disney as it's (Marvel's) parent company, I could see that happening on some level in the future. And not just with Superman, but ALL of DC's stuff. Who is DC's financial muscle? Warner Bros?

golem370
He would make a good Guardian of the Galaxy but a member mainly based on earth so he could save people there with the Avengers and then go out and help the other members of the GotG when needed.

dmills
Originally posted by -Pr-
Quesada's not the boss anymore?

Joe Q is now Chief Creative Officer of Marvel Entertainment. He's got a bigger role in all of Marvel's endeavors now and you'd better believe that he still has his hand in firm control of Axel Alonso's puppet strings.

zeel
Originally posted by abhilegend
He would be better than Thor and Surfer at least.


nah. The marvel universe consists of a lot of mutant and other types, I think the Superman types don't fit in well. The most popular heros in marvel are not even close to hearld class characters. Spiderman, captain America, wolverine. Supes needs to stay in D.C. comics.


As far as who would be better in the marvel universe superman or thor, id have to say thor for sure.

dmills
Originally posted by golem370
He would make a good Guardian of the Galaxy but a member mainly based on earth so he could save people there with the Avengers and then go out and help the other members of the GotG when needed.

Hell no. None of those characters are overly powerful. That's by design.

MF DELPH
If Superman's rights are owned by Marvel would they be able to keep his history and interactions with the other DC characters? If so I think just having Superman stay as he is without re-imagining him or changing his character history one bit would work, and having his story in Marvel be that he somehow got sent to the MU in some kind of dimensional rift event and can't ever return to his native universe under any circumstances (the event being impossible to replicate) would work fine enough. I wouldn't have him join the Avengers though. I think he should work directly for the U.N. and have tensions with the other heroes as he becomes the new global golden boy. Maybe even envy by other heroes (save someone like Captain America). I think eventually they should have an arc where the difference in frequency of sunlight between the MU and DCU cause his power levels to fluctuate and come more in line with Marvel's. It could be done right but I feel it would have to treat Supes history with absolute respect. The brand has earned that level of consideration.

dmills
Originally posted by MF DELPH
If Superman's rights are owned by Marvel would they be able to keep his history and interactions with the other DC characters? If so I think just having Superman stay as he is without re-imagining him or changing his character history one bit would work, and having his story in Marvel be that he somehow got sent to the MU in some kind of dimensional rift event and can't ever return to his native universe under any circumstances (the event being impossible to replicate) would work fine enough. I wouldn't have him join the Avengers though. I think he should work directly for the U.N. and have tensions with the other heroes as he becomes the new global golden boy. Maybe even envy by other heroes (save someone like Captain America). I think eventually they should have an arc where the difference in frequency of sunlight between the MU and DCU cause his power levels to fluctuate and come more in line with Marvel's. It could be done right but I feel it would have to treat Supes history with absolute respect. The brand has earned that level of consideration.

It would probably be the crown jewel of a larger acquisition of DC's properties. Disney would buy the rights from whomever is the financial muscle of DC, and then after promising (lying) to keep the two separate, they would inevitably merge the properties into Marvel entertainment.

Think UFC buying Pride or the WWE buying out the WCW.

-Pr-
Originally posted by dmills
With Disney as it's (Marvel's) parent company, I could see that happening on some level in the future. And not just with Superman, but ALL of DC's stuff. Who is DC's financial muscle? Warner Bros?

Yeah, WB is the owner.

If Disney bought DC, it would be a sad, sad day for comics, imo.

Originally posted by dmills
Joe Q is now Chief Creative Officer of Marvel Entertainment. He's got a bigger role in all of Marvel's endeavors now and you'd better believe that he still has his hand in firm control of Axel Alonso's puppet strings.

Ouch.

The only chance I could give Superman at Marvel would be if Quesada had absolutely no input in to it.

golem370
Originally posted by dmills
Hell no. None of those characters are overly powerful. That's by design.


Whats your point.

dmills
Originally posted by -Pr-
Yeah, WB is the owner.

If Disney bought DC, it would be a sad, sad day for comics, imo.



Ouch.

The only chance I could give Superman at Marvel would be if Quesada had absolutely no input in to it.

Which would sadly mean there's no chance at all. Marvel comics is a SMALL portion of their revenue, but at the same time the overall brand comes from the comic material. Everything would go through Joe Q as a result because it's all a part of the overall direction of the toys, films, animations etc. Abnett and Lanning's run on "Nova" and "Guardians Of the Galaxy" were the first casualties of that new business model per Joe Q himself.

dmills
Originally posted by golem370
Whats your point.

Originally posted by dmills
None of those characters are overly powerful. That's by design.

-Pr-
Originally posted by dmills
Which would sadly mean there's no chance at all. marvel comics is a SMALL portion of their revenue, but at the same time the brand comes from the comic material. Everything would go through Joe Q as a result because it's all a part of the overall direction of the toys, films, animations etc. Abnett and Lanning's run on "Nova" and "Guardians Of the Galaxy" were the first casualties of that new business model per Joe Q himself.

that, and having the house of mouse owning competing comic companies would only ruin the market.

dmills
Originally posted by -Pr-
that, and having the house of mouse owning competing comic companies would only ruin the market.

As a fan of the medium I agree. But looking at it from a business perspective, it's damn near inevitable. Disney is the biggest bully on the block and if they want DC, the will get DC eventually. Disney is soaking up every entertainment IP that they can get their hands on. Hell they could straight up buy WB. They'd probably face accusations of being a monopoly, a bit of hand wringing from congress etc, but they'd do it.

-Pr-
Originally posted by dmills
As a fan of the medium I agree. But looking at it from a business perspective, it's damn near inevitable. Disney is the biggest bully on the block and if they want DC, the will get DC eventually. Disney is soaking up every entertainment IP that they can get their hands on. Hell they could straight up buy WB. They'd probably face accusations of being a monopoly, but they'd do it.

Probably.

I'd just hate to see a day come when Marvel and DC aren't trying to outdo each other. Sure, Disney could think that having them compete would be a good idea, but It just wouldn't be the same.

dmills
Originally posted by -Pr-
Probably.

I'd just hate to see a day come when Marvel and DC aren't trying to outdo each other. Sure, Disney could think that having them compete would be a good idea, but It just wouldn't be the same.

It'd be a faux competition. A house divided against itself cannot stand and all...

-Pr-
Originally posted by dmills
It'd be a faux competition. A house divided against itself cannot stand and all...

yup.

though I will admit, I wouldn't mind having Disney's backing for dc movies.

Rao Kal El
I agree to those saying that Marvel will treath superman with respect if it were their property. I think I left my judgement to be clouded by how thet treath his clones, but yes?Marvel will threat superman with respect.

753
Originally posted by dmills
As a fan of the medium I agree. But looking at it from a business perspective, it's damn near inevitable. Disney is the biggest bully on the block and if they want DC, the will get DC eventually. Disney is soaking up every entertainment IP that they can get their hands on. Hell they could straight up buy WB. They'd probably face accusations of being a monopoly, a bit of hand wringing from congress etc, but they'd do it. wouldnt your ftc prevent it?

dmills
Originally posted by 753
wouldnt your ftc prevent it?

It would probably become an issue if it's Disney buying WB. But if it's merely Disney buying DC then I doubt the FTC would step in. Fans would file complaints with the FTC and I'm sure that several lawsuits would be filed in order to stop it, but ultimately they'll fail.

Think about Stan Lee's lawsuit against Marvel prior to Disney picking it up. It was dismissed. No one in DC is as big a name or has as much personal history invested in the development of several iconic (Marvel) characters as Stan Lee, so what chance would they have?

JakeTheBank
That's a scary thought.

dmills
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That's a scary thought.

Word. And so were WWE buying WCW and Zuffa (UFC) buying Pride, and eventually all competing MMA organizations. 10-15 years ago people would've scoffed at the notion.

Competition among companies is fast becoming a thing of the past. Just look at how Sony eventually won the war between Blu Ray and HDdvd. The consumer never got to determine the outcome.

Oliver North
Originally posted by 753
wouldnt your ftc prevent it?

Maybe

however, profit aside, the vast majority of Eisner nominees this year weren't Marvel or DC, so it may be hard to argue that Marvel/DC have a monopoly on the market.

Hell, for as lame as I find 99% of their titles (and how much I apparently love the other 1%) the existence of Image and Dark Horse probably are enough of a counterweight to keep the FTC out of it.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by lawest9
Thev title says it all, any suggestions?

Like a single piece of a child's Dora the Explorer puzzle forced into the middle of a 10,000 piece puzzle of Sistine Chapel ceiling.

psycho gundam
^ kang in a nutshell

753
Originally posted by Oliver North
Maybe

however, profit aside, the vast majority of Eisner nominees this year weren't Marvel or DC, so it may be hard to argue that Marvel/DC have a monopoly on the market.

Hell, for as lame as I find 99% of their titles (and how much I apparently love the other 1%) the existence of Image and Dark Horse probably are enough of a counterweight to keep the FTC out of it. as of april 2013, they account for near 70% of the market when combined, though DC has apparently taken a plummet and marvel a slight 2% drop. how much control over the market do you reckon a company would have to muster for the ftc to get involved?

I dont think the eisner awards could be used as a defense agaisnt monopoly charges, because it is about quality assessed by an artistic perspective and the comics market can be effectively monopolized by the publishing of medicore dribble.

dmills
Originally posted by 753
as of april 2013, they account for near 70% of the market when combined, though DC has apparently taken a plummet and marvel a slight 2% drop. how much control over the market do you reckon a company would have to muster for the ftc to get involved?

I dont think the eisner awards could be used as a defense agaisnt monopoly charges, because it is about quality assessed by an artistic perspective and the comics market can be effectively monopolized by the publishing of medicore dribble.

As I understand it most cases that are taken into serious consideration by the FTC seem to involve companies that also possess the means of production to effectively put their rivals out of business. In order for the FTC to get involved Disney would have to own or have a large stake in the means of distribution of comics material (Acquiring Diamond distribution for example) or at least have a substantial influence in it (buying out a large amount of the 2000 or so comic shops still in existence for example).

As it stands now, Image and other independent publishers business wouldn't be affected much by a Disney acquisition of DC properties. That's not to say that a merger like that wouldn't send shockwaves pulsing through the industry, but at the end of the day what would a merger between Marvel and DC really change in the grand scheme? They would still dominate the market in terms of sales, which is the way it stands right now anyway.

The best chance (which means zero chance) of stopping it would be via lawsuits filed by various parties. See Stan Lee vs Marvel, Marv Wolfman vs Marvel, Jerry Siegel vs DC and most recently, DC vs the heirs of Joe Shuster et al. They all got their collective assess handed to them in various courts.

753
it's not about them hurting the rest of the business, but consumers. if merged a single company would domiante 70% of the market, which is different form 2 companies doing it.

dmills
Originally posted by 753
it's not about them hurting the rest of the business, but consumers. if merged a single company would domiante 70% of the market, which is different form 2 companies doing it.

Consumers are only hurt if their choices are limited to that one company. As long as they can access the material where they want, when they want to, then there's no harm done. Unless Disney did something exceptionally stupid like say, acquired the properties and then sent them off into oblivion never to be seen again, then the consumer MIGHT have a chance of getting the FTC to step in. And even that is a very slim chance.

Corporations do this stuff everyday. Hell just look at what EA is trying to do to Nintendo right now. They got pissed that Nintendo didn't go with Origin as it's online service and have basically blackballed them by not having a single game scheduled for release on the Wii U in 2013. Going forward that is a huge blow to Nintendo and by proxy, Nintendo fans. If not for Ubisoft standing by Nintendo, the Wii U would have virtually zero large publisher third party support.

We have some fairly weak consumer protection laws in certain respects in the USA. For example, say that that you are late on your car payment for whatever reason and the bank assigns a repo team to your account. You are in the car about to drive your child to school, but forgot to grab your mobile phone so you run back in the house really quick to grab it. In some states the repo man can hop in the car and drive off with your kid inside without fear of punishment. Repo men don't give a phuck, because they don't have to fear any consequences.

I said all that in a roundabout way of saying that if Disney acquired the rights to DC properties, don't expect the FTC or the courts to save you.

dmills
Here is a link to a recent FTC investigation that has some parallels to what you're talking about 753. It involves a merger between two direct competitors in the hair restoration industry, which is a half billion dollar per year industry.

http://antitrust.weil.com/federal-trade-commission/ftc-challenging-antitrust-violations-unearthed-in-a-merger-review/

As I said often happens in these types of deals, there was a little hand wringing about competition for posterities sake, but ultimately everything went right on through.

Eel O'Brien
Looking at things from an in universe standpoint; you couldn't make Superman and Thor work at the same time.

Think about Martian Manhunter in the JLA when Superman is absent vs present. The only way to really make Supes work would be to scale back Thor- which would suck.

I would really like to read some comics where Super/Thor were working together and actually became friends. That's why I don't understand the lack of DC/Marvel crossovers; I know they are competitiors, but those books will always sell.

Oliver North
Originally posted by 753
as of april 2013, they account for near 70% of the market when combined, though DC has apparently taken a plummet and marvel a slight 2% drop. how much control over the market do you reckon a company would have to muster for the ftc to get involved?

isn't the FTC highly inconsistent in these cases?

I think there would have to be some type of challenge from a company saying that the set-up prevents them from accessing the market for it to be a real monopoly.

dmills
Originally posted by Oliver North
isn't the FTC highly inconsistent in these cases?

I think there would have to be some type of challenge from a company saying that the set-up prevents them from accessing the market for it to be a real monopoly.

Yep. In that link I posted the two companies involved in the merger were two of the top three companies in the hair restoration industry. Those two and one other had a combined market share of 60%.

Oliver North
They also nailed Microsoft over giving their web-browser a monopoly on their own OS, ya?

dmills
Originally posted by Oliver North
They also nailed Microsoft over giving their web-browser a monopoly on their own OS, ya?

If Windows is 90% of the market then it stands to reason that if they only allow IE to run on it that would put a lot of competitors in a pickle. It would be sort of like Disney buying out 90% of all comic book shops and then only allowing Marvel titles to be sold at them.

I'm still foolishly holding out hope that they start busting up some of these mega ISP's like Time Warner cable. Those bastards are seeing consumers cut the cord because of services like Netflix, Hulu and Amazon Prime, so they're cranking up the prices on internet service and using the gimmick of data caps to rein us back in.

-Pr-
Time Warner is already in hot water over their assertions that nobody needs gigabyte internet, and the slow but steady emergence of google fiber.

That's what happens when you're a dick.

dmills
Originally posted by -Pr-
Time Warner is already in hot water over their assertions that nobody needs gigabyte internet, and the slow but steady emergence of google fiber.

That's what happens when you're a dick.

Yep. Privacy concerns aside, Google may be our last best hope. If they can provide uncapped internet at anywhere close to those kinds of speeds for a reasonable price then it'll be a godsend.

-Pr-
Originally posted by dmills
Yep. Privacy concerns aside, Google may be our last best hope. If they can provide uncapped internet at anywhere close to those kinds of speeds for a reasonable price then it'll be a godsend.

yup. and the best part is, none of these big corporations can bully google like they did smaller ISPs. Google just laughs in their faces.

dmills
Originally posted by -Pr-
yup. and the best part is, none of these big corporations can bully google like they did smaller ISPs. Google just laughs in their faces.

Exactly. Those jerk offs will probably try to cut Google's lines lol.

I'm impressed with what they did with the Nexus 4 bypassing the bs of the big 3 by taking the product directly to the consumer. Even if it didn't move as many units as say, the Samsung Galaxy line, it still proved that there is potential for a better way. That took big balls.

lawest9
Very interesting discussion on comics marketing.

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