How well would Apocalypse do in on DC earth

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golem370
In this thread Apocalypse has all of his gear including Celestial tech. He has some minions.

Minions
Mister Sinister
Post- http://www.rapsheet.co.uk/RapSheetMain/Character4.asp?UniqueId=1476
Pestilance- http://www.rapsheet.co.uk/RapSheetMain/Character2.asp?UniqueId=1924
Dark Beast
Holocaust

753
is he out to conquer earth? he won't.

Golgo13
He wouldn't conqueror Atlantis.

-Pr-
I don't think they'd win, but I'd love to see them fight the Justice League.

And I'd pay good money to see Aquaman fight Sinister.

753
do you think he'd win?

-Pr-
Originally posted by 753
do you think he'd win?

In a telepathy battle, I think it's possible if DCNU Aquaman was as powerful as preboot, but even if he didn't, I'd still love to see it happen. They're so different in their applications of it, plus, Sinister is my #1 favourite villain.

Ever.

753
well, he's no magneto, but at least he's better than apocalypse

-Pr-
laughing out loud

SevenShackles
Well how well would he do? Depends on his goals and how he goes about things. With both dark beast and sinister I think he could get rather far in an indirect method. Many people have been able to get supermans DNA and given the tech in DC they could come up with a few nasty things.
A head on encounter would end with Apoc and his minions being picked apart and being put away.
If he make horsemen outside of the minions he brought and works behind the scenes on some sort of scheme (including metahuman followers or not) he might be able to pick apart and give hell to some teams in DC but justice league would still stop him.. Unless he somehow forces batman to be death.

carver9
Apocalypse recently has become a huge threat... both physically and mentally.

yaadaveyaa
Originally posted by 753
well, he's no magneto, but at least he's better than apocalypse

i never thought id agree with anything u said but well said thumb up

SevenShackles
With dark beast and sinister and possible access to supermans DNA And even maybe some kryptonite couldn't they under Apoc create some sort of disease/toxin to eliminate him be it death or disablement?

Asking out of curiosity.

golem370
I would say they getting stronger over time gather more equipment and people until they are a full organization then eventually try their hand at world domination.

753
Originally posted by SevenShackles
With dark beast and sinister and possible access to supermans DNA And even maybe some kryptonite couldn't they under Apoc create some sort of disease/toxin to eliminate him be it death or disablement?

Asking out of curiosity. sure... they could also come up with similar crap to conquer 616 earth, but they fail at that too dont they? and it's not always pis either.

MF DELPH
Smh...

Apocalypse's goal has always been to rule over an Earth populated by the best of the best of mutant kind, and he attempts to achieve that goal by causing conflicts that weed out the weak among society via artificial natural selection. That process takes a long amount of time. It's intrinsic to Apocalypse's storyline that he inevitably conquers the world, in multiple timelines at that, including 616.

In DC I think he'd flourish, actually. Better writers with better vision would help. I see him effecting the evolutionary process on DC Earth and causing the populace to have an increase in metahumans to the point where baseline humans become a minority and the numbers of supervillains and metahuman involved crimes reach catastrophic levels. All from the shadows. Eventually, of course, Batman would discover that someone has been tampering with the human genome and some of Apocalypse's agents get discovered (Dark Beast more than likely). This would get the JLA on his trail and working to counter his efforts which lead to the usual climactic battle, plans being thwarted, and Apocalypse remaining in the shadows to plot another scheme.

753
it's not intrinsic delph, hence cable.

poccy was ultimately dethroned from the AoA and cable's future and his rise in the 616 has been prevented a dozens times over. it is also evident by the amount of alternate earths we've seen and the amount ruled by him, that he conquers earth in a small minority of cases.

as for your plot, sinister got that done with High Evolutionary tech and got stopped just the same.

Classic NES
Originally posted by carver9
Apocalypse recently has become a huge threat... both physically and mentally.

Can you elaborate?

753
he owned a teenage thor without mjolnir in a flashback

MF DELPH
Originally posted by 753
it's not intrinsic delph, hence cable.

poccy was ultimately dethroned from the AoA and cable's future and his rise in the 616 has been prevented a dozens times over. it is also evident by the amount of alternate earths we've seen and the amount ruled by him, that he conquers earth in a small minority of cases.

as for your plot, sinister got that done with High Evolutionary tech and got stopped just the same.

Yes, it is intrinsic. Cable had to travel back in time to avert the future of Apocalypse conquering the world, which caused that future to become an alternate timeline (and the reality that Cable and Stryfe originate from), and there are various timelines in which Apocalypse conquers the Earth, AoA being just one of them. The fact he is eventually defeated is simply par for the course of would be world conquering villains. You can't hold a storytelling trope against the character. Villains scheme. Heroes thwart. Villains shake their fists and scheme again. That's just their purpose in the medium.

753
but poccy was defeated in cable's future too. of course, you are right about the trope, but it's not a given that apocalypse will ever conquer 616, let alone all the alternate earths he exists in.

MF DELPH
In some of them he already has. There are variations of AoA out there (AoA What Ifs) which are alternate universes/timelines (like the universe Deadpool jumped to in Cable/Deadpool), as well as the Cable/Stryfe native he had conquered. I think the confusion comes from the fact he rules alternate futures when most of the storytelling is done from the mainstream current.

I just find the whole "Apocalypse hasn't accomplished anything/Apocalypse always loses" argument hollow and frustrating because it seems to overlook the caveat that his conquest of Earth has always been depicted as being in the future, and that is due to certain benchmarks needing to be met before he enacts his takeover of a world where mutants are a majority of the world's population. Patient stewardship of evolution is his central character theme.

carver9
I'm trying to figure out who Apocalypse lost to for people to lowball him the way they do? Can someone answer this for me. I'm referring to 616 Apocalypse.

xJLxKing
He would fail. Can not see him defeating the glc, jla, or even jsa. However, I'm sure he can score a few wins here and there with low teirs

dmills
The JLA together would defeat him easily enough. Anyone who tries to play hero and go one on one will get wrecked though.

SevenShackles
despite the heavily powered heroes in DC I'm starting to feel Apoc might do better in their hands.

MF DELPH
Yeah. I have more faith in DC's writers in recent times.

JakeTheBank
Really depends, imo.

If he just arrived on the scene and tried that Darwinism shit, he'd get beat up. But if he was retroactively inserted in canon from ancient times, he'd have a pretty big advantage, especially in the Pre-New 52 considering the age of heroes has only just started.

Starscream M
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Really depends, imo.

If he just arrived on the scene and tried that Darwinism shit, he'd get beat up. But if he was retroactively inserted in canon from ancient times, he'd have a pretty big advantage, especially in the Pre-New 52 considering the age of heroes has only just started. I love his Darwinism shit

dmills
Originally posted by SevenShackles
despite the heavily powered heroes in DC I'm starting to feel Apoc might do better in their hands. Originally posted by MF DELPH
Yeah. I have more faith in DC's writers in recent times.

I think it'll be a mixed bag. Writers from both companies are being shuffled around from book to book so fast that developing a sustained, cohesive narrative for a character like Apoc would be difficult imo.

Also, DC's metahuman hasn't been featured conceptually the way that Marvel's has. So that plays a role in how fish lips would be portrayed as well.

Oliver North
man, no love for Holocaust.

Sinister/Holocaust/Apoc really only lack speed for them to be a legit threat to most JLA rosters. IF he used Dark Beast and Sinister well enough for prep, I could see him + his team causing some real trouble. It'd be a different role for apoc though, because he isn't necessarily strong enough to fight the higher tier of DC Earth heroes outright, so he would have to be totally in the shadows, whereas he normally isn't so subtle.

EDIT: actually, it could totally work. Now Apoc is forced to become the strongest in order to survive.

MF DELPH
I don't think Apocalypse would have an issue with offensive output against the big guns in DC. And in a book speed won't be an issue either since the precedent of characters without super speed combating characters with it is already established. I actually think he'd be better off in DC since he'd be written as a JL rogue.

Oliver North
Originally posted by MF DELPH
I don't think Apocalypse would have an issue with offensive output against the big guns in DC. And in a book speed won't be an issue either since the precedent of characters without super speed combating characters with it is already established.

its also the easiest thing for a writer to upgrade. *poof* now Apoc's celestial tech allows him to tag Flash.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
I actually think he'd be better off in DC since he'd be written as a JL rogue.

I'm way more partial to the X-Men, so I'd rather he get treated with respect there, but it does have potential.

golem370
It would have been better if I made his team have a teleporter to get Apocs agents in and out without much detection. I think after say a year the attack Batman first maybe taking some of his villains and increasing their abilities, Imagine Joker, Bane, and a few other upgraded by Sinister giving them killer instinct against Batman.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Oliver North
its also the easiest thing for a writer to upgrade. *poof* now Apoc's celestial tech allows him to tag Flash.



I'm way more partial to the X-Men, so I'd rather he get treated with respect there, but it does have potential.

if the x-men weren't written like shit nowadays, i'd like to see apocalypse back to his x-factor ways.

Oliver North
Originally posted by -Pr-
if the x-men weren't written like shit nowadays, i'd like to see apocalypse back to his x-factor ways.

I'm so disappointed with Marvel these days. The Spider-Ock has been totally engaging, but ya, save a great title here or there (original Uncanny X-Force) I just don't get what Marvel is doing with mutants, and I suspect neither do they. So many of the characters scream "wasted potential".

I've never read DC before seriously, but the nU seems more and more an appealing point to jump in.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Oliver North
I'm so disappointed with Marvel these days. The Spider-Ock has been totally engaging, but ya, save a great title here or there (original Uncanny X-Force) I just don't get what Marvel is doing with mutants, and I suspect neither do they. So many of the characters scream "wasted potential".

I've never read DC before seriously, but the nU seems more and more an appealing point to jump in.

I started reading comics in the mid to late eighties. I was a Marvel kid from then until 2004 when, after becoming so disappointed with Marvel, I started giving DC a chance. I almost exclusively read DC now.

I'd pay real money to have the likes of X-Men back to the quality they used to be.

Oliver North
Originally posted by -Pr-
I started reading comics in the mid to late eighties. I was a Marvel kid from then until 2004 when, after becoming so disappointed with Marvel, I started giving DC a chance. I almost exclusively read DC now.

are they done with all the rebooting stuff now?

Anything from the like... 52/Crisis stories I had seen made too many references to prior cannon that I didn't really appreciate a lot of it. Its not like, going to be another reboot crisis in 6 months?

Actually, this is why I loved all-star superman, along with it being otherwise amazing I suppose

Originally posted by -Pr-
I'd pay real money to have the likes of X-Men back to the quality they used to be.

amen brother.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Oliver North
I'm so disappointed with Marvel these days. The Spider-Ock has been totally engaging, but ya, save a great title here or there (original Uncanny X-Force) I just don't get what Marvel is doing with mutants, and I suspect neither do they. So many of the characters scream "wasted potential".

I've never read DC before seriously, but the nU seems more and more an appealing point to jump in.


wow...u should dc is awesome

-Pr-
Originally posted by Oliver North
are they done with all the rebooting stuff now?

Anything from the like... 52/Crisis stories I had seen made too many references to prior cannon that I didn't really appreciate a lot of it. Its not like, going to be another reboot crisis in 6 months?

Actually, this is why I loved all-star superman, along with it being otherwise amazing I suppose



amen brother.

The crises (Infinite and Final) weren't hard reboots; this one is more like COIE, in that for a lot of the characters, they're starting again. Redefining origins etc. Some characters do have aspects and history from before then that has been carried over (like Green Lantern), but even then it's not their entire history, just the stuff that writers want to reference.

With the success of the New 52 universe, I could see us getting another crisis soon as an event, but it won't be a reboot like the one we just got.

If you are planning to give DC a shot, i'd recommend Aquaman, Justice League, Action Comics, Justice League Dark and Detective/Batman. None of them are too hard on continuity at all.

Oliver North
alright, word. I'll check those out

MF DELPH
Originally posted by golem370
It would have been better if I made his team have a teleporter to get Apocs agents in and out without much detection. I think after say a year the attack Batman first maybe taking some of his villains and increasing their abilities, Imagine Joker, Bane, and a few other upgraded by Sinister giving them killer instinct against Batman.

Apocalypse can teleport himself and others under his own power. That shouldn't be an issue.

TheGodKiller
He'd take over in less than 1/4th a day.

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