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Who wins

Surtur

Originally posted by Cogito
Surtur

Surtur

Surtur

Tyrant.

Twilight sword

Surtur.

If Tyrant can dislodge it like Thor did and keep it dislodged then Tyrant.

I put Tyrant above Odin.. so I'm going to put him also above Surtur.

How big is the difference between original Tyrant and DP Tyrant? I know original Tyrant wins but not sure about DP.

Originally posted by Tar-Antado
How big is the difference between original Tyrant and DP Tyrant? I know original Tyrant wins but not sure about DP.
There is NO DP Tyrant. Not since his return from exile.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I put Tyrant above Odin.. so I'm going to put him also above Surtur. Odin casually one-shot Surfer and Drax. DP Tyrant didn't one-shot Surfer or Gladiator or Beta Ray Bill at all... despite having just drained them of some power with his machines. Thanos didn't budge Odin. Thanos toppled DP Tyrant a few times.

DP Tyrant is comparable to Odin. But I don't see what puts him above Odin at all.

Not to memtion Surtur W/Twilight is above odin

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Not to memtion Surtur W/Twilight is above odin Sword is big?

Originally posted by ODG
Odin casually one-shot Surfer and Drax. DP Tyrant didn't one-shot Surfer or Gladiator or Beta Ray Bill at all... despite having just drained them of some power with his machines. Thanos didn't budge Odin. Thanos toppled DP Tyrant a few times.

DP Tyrant is comparable to Odin. But I don't see what puts him above Odin at all.


That was a good moment for Odin and a bad one for Surfer and Drax. I've seen the Surfer nearly beaten to death by some very powerful beings and still fight. Some of them like Mrrungo Mu, Tenebrous and Aegis could easily be more powerful than Odin.

As for the fight, I give Surtur the edge because of the Twilight Sword but don't count Tyrant out. He has access to vast stores of power and can amp up to Galactus-level and, apparently, even beyond a standard Galactus.

tyrant returned when he wins here

Originally posted by Dampyre
He has access to vast stores of power and can amp up to Galactus-level and, apparently, even beyond a standard Galactus. so can odin

Atleast a good argument can be made

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
so can odin

Atleast a good argument can be made

Odin is terribly overrated by some. Come on, he knocked himself out by running into Galactus. Then he ran into the Destroyer after his body failed. Odin is not even as powerful as a standard Galactus, no matter what he does.

On the other hand, Tyrant was able to use Galactus' machinery to siphon all of G's power into himself and contain it. Tytant's ability to absorb energy far surpasses Odin's.

There's a reason that Odin tried a telepathic assault on Galactus. He knew that he didn't stand a chance in a physical confrontation. Moondragon and Thanos came up with a similar plan. The end result was the same.

So odin knocking out surfer is a bad showing for surfer now? Lawl.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So odin knocking out surfer is a bad showing for surfer now? Lawl.
When you compare it to other times he's gone up against powerful beings? Yes, especially the "one shot" nature of it. He even gave you an example.

Odin one shotting Surfer is perfectly within the realm of feasibility given Odin's feats.

Originally posted by zopzop
When you compare it to other times he's gone up against powerful beings? Yes, especially the "one shot" nature of it. He even gave you an example.
He did? How does he failed to mention that a holding back Aegis oneshotted him? Being left for dying in four shots isn't better than oneshot knockout. Mrrungu-mu is all hype and he was kicking surfer's ass too. Also he attacked Gaea with all the other defenders and she didn't even pay him any attention. Odin has oneshotted him, Mephisto has killed him in one shot, Aegis has oneshotted him. Surfer's record against skyfathers and above is piss poor and Odin oneshotting him isn't a bad showing for him at all.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He did? How does he failed to mention that a holding back Aegis oneshotted him? Being left for dying in four shots isn't better than oneshot knockout. Mrrungu-mu is all hype and he was kicking surfer's ass too. Also he attacked Gaea with all the other defenders and she didn't even pay him any attention. Odin has oneshotted him, Mephisto has killed him in one shot, Aegis has oneshotted him. Surfer's record against skyfathers and above is piss poor and Odin oneshotting him isn't a bad showing for him at all.

How do you know Aegis was holding back? She never one-shotted the Surfer anyway, even in their initial confrontation. You were in such a hurry to talk shit you got your facts mixed up. Mrrungo Mu was all hype? Is that why Galactus avoided a confrontation with him? Or why he was easily able to capture every superhuman on Earth, including Thor? He beat Thor, Hulk and a few others with a casual ease that has rarely been seen.

It's funny how you get all emo when it comes to the Surfer. That's probably because the majority of people on forums everywhere give him the win over your precious Man of Steel.

Snap

Originally posted by Dampyre
How do you know Aegis was holding back? She never one-shotted the Surfer anyway, even in their initial confrontation. You were in such a hurry to talk shit you got your facts mixed up. Mrrungo Mu was all hype? Is that why Galactus avoided a confrontation with him? Or why he was easily able to capture every superhuman on Earth, including Thor? He beat Thor, Hulk and a few others with a casual ease that has rarely been seen.

It's funny how you get all emo when it comes to the Surfer. That's probably because the majority of people on forums everywhere give him the win over your precious Man of Steel.
Because she specifically said she was there to capture him and not to kill him. I checked back and she two-shotted him. That makes all the difference!! Galactus is a pussy, he beats FP Tyrant and avoids a fight with DP Tyrant. That's not Tyrant or Mrrungo being powerful, that's Galactus being a huge pussy. Mrrungo beat them by absorbing their powers which didn't work on surfer. Convenient.

Also lawl @bringing superman here. At least he doesn't gets oneshotted by skyfathers.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He did? How does he failed to mention that a holding back Aegis oneshotted him? Being left for dying in four shots isn't better than oneshot knockout. Mrrungu-mu is all hype and he was kicking surfer's ass too. Also he attacked Gaea with all the other defenders and she didn't even pay him any attention. Odin has oneshotted him, Mephisto has killed him in one shot, Aegis has oneshotted him. Surfer's record against skyfathers and above is piss poor and Odin oneshotting him isn't a bad showing for him at all.
Aegis never one shotted Surfer.

Classic Korvac, who forum members say is a skyfather or skyfather+ level being
http://s12.postimg.org/9foxc17g9/2551334_avengers_177_02_super.jpg
didn't one shot Surfer :
http://s10.postimg.org/skv9f4nkl/785912_6avengersannual1619je3_super.jpg

Mrrunngu Mu didn't one shot Surfer.

The Mephisto that one shotted Surfer went toe to toe vs Galactus, power for power till Galactus disengaged and attempted to eat Mephisto's realm. Even Odin didn't dare challenge Galactus like that but instead engaged him telepathically. That was the highest showing we've ever seen by Mephisto.

Originally posted by zopzop
Aegis never one shotted Surfer.

Classic Korvac, who forum members say is a skyfather or skyfather+ level being
http://s12.postimg.org/9foxc17g9/2551334_avengers_177_02_super.jpg
didn't one shot Surfer :
http://s10.postimg.org/skv9f4nkl/785912_6avengersannual1619je3_super.jpg

Mrrunngu Mu didn't one shot Surfer.

The Mephisto that one shotted Surfer went toe to toe vs Galactus, power for power till Galactus disengaged and attempted to eat Mephisto's realm. Even Odin didn't dare challenge Galactus like that but instead engaged him telepathically. That was the highest showing we've ever seen by Mephisto.
Yeah, she twoshotted him. Big whoop. She is Odin level too and was specifically holding back.

Korvac isn't a skyfather.

Mrrungo's main tactic didn't work on surfer, i.e. absorbing.

I'm talking about Defenders 100 where mephisto killed him. A showing where Mephisto showed skyfather level power against galactus oneshotted surfer. How surprising!

Mrrungo Mu, Tenebrous, and Aegis all did something that Odin did not, and that's crack the Surfer's shell. It's obvious that those attacks were more powerful than Odin's.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because she specifically said she was there to capture him and not to kill him. I checked back and she two-shotted him. That makes all the difference!! Galactus is a pussy, he beats FP Tyrant and avoids a fight with DP Tyrant. That's not Tyrant or Mrrungo being powerful, that's Galactus being a huge pussy. Mrrungo beat them by absorbing their powers which didn't work on surfer. Convenient.

Also lawl @bringing superman here. At least he doesn't gets oneshotted by skyfathers.

Mu beat them up and then absorbed their powers. Better read it again. lol

And Tyrant's powers worked differently in his second fight with Galactus. He wasn't quite as powerful but was now able to absorb G's power.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Also lawl @bringing superman here. At least he doesn't gets oneshotted by skyfathers.

If I didn't bring that ****** boy scout into this then you would have. It's what you do. And Galactus, Mu and the like would deal with Superman just as easily as they would the Surfer. Don't delude yourself.

Originally posted by Dampyre
If I didn't bring that ****** boy scout into this then you would have. It's what you do. And Galactus, Mu and the like would deal with Superman just as easily as they would the Surfer. Don't delude yourself.

Every debate seems like a veiled Superman argument with him

And the thread becomes a mini Superman Respect Thread in one, two...

Anyone remember Galactus one-shotting an amped-up Superman in that FF crossover? It may not be canon but it's fun to bring up.

Originally posted by Dampyre
Mrrungo Mu, Tenebrous, and Aegis all did something that Odin did not, and that's crack the Surfer's shell. It's obvious that those attacks were more powerful than Odin's.
Originally posted by Dampyre
Mu beat them up and then absorbed their powers. Better read it again. lol

And Tyrant's powers worked differently in his second fight with Galactus. He wasn't quite as powerful but was now able to absorb G's power.
I haven't read it in awhile. Do you have the scans?

Also Galactus backed away from Tyrant in SS v3 82.Originally posted by Dampyre
If I didn't bring that ****** boy scout into this then you would have. It's what you do. And Galactus, Mu and the like would deal with Superman just as easily as they would the Surfer. Don't delude yourself.
Certainly not. Surfer fans bring superman everytime they are backed into a corner though.

Name me a skyfather who has oneshotted superman. Superman regularly fights and beats skyfather level beings under his own power unlike that eunuch who gets oneshotted or better twoshotted whenever he meets a skyfather.

Anybody remember cyborg superman making cosmic eunuch dance like a ballerina and then laughing off his attacks? Its actually canon and quite fun.

Originally posted by ODG
Odin casually one-shot Surfer and Drax. DP Tyrant didn't one-shot Surfer or Gladiator or Beta Ray Bill at all... despite having just drained them of some power with his machines. Thanos didn't budge Odin. Thanos toppled DP Tyrant a few times.

DP Tyrant is comparable to Odin. But I don't see what puts him above Odin at all.

You know why Big ODG... Cause of how they did respectively against common foes....

Thanos against Odin - Thanos wasn't going there to fight Odin but seeking his help. He didn't prep nor acquire any amps to fight Odin. Odin also pulled out a weapon to increase his blasting power.. tyrant didn't pull out any weapon to aid him at all. Yet, despite not moving him much... still NEVER backed down from Odin nor admitted Odin was superior at all.... now this is in stark contrast to

Thanos vs. Tyrant - Thanos went looking for a fight against Tyrant to test his might. He prepped and studied Tyrant before meeting to learn about any weakness he may have. He acquired an amp to fight Tyrant. Tyrant pulled out no weapon to add him at all. Yet, despite all this... Thanos ADMITTED he would be killed by Tyrant and left. This was in a much quicker period of time that he admitted it.. compared to the lengthy battle with Odin where he never admitted a thing.

Next is their battles against Galactus.... Tyrant obviously did much better than Odin did against Galactus. Again we have a situation where Galactus prepped before facing Tyrant and even backed down against Tyrant the first time he met him. He fed so much that he hadn't felt that great in ages. Galactus also knows tyrant WAY better than Odin and thus knows his strengths and weakness.. afterall he created him in his own image.

Against Odin... Galactus did feed on a planet near as ripe.. in fact it was stated to be devoid of life. He didn't backed down from Odin before meeting him nor did he prep to face Odin. Nor does he know Odin inside and out like he does Tyrant. Yet he was able to beat him.. and imo.. without too much effort. I woudl also reference Doom getting Galactus' power and basically one shotting Odin. Anyways, the point is.. yet again a common foe does better against Odin

Lastly, I woudl reference Tyrant being made in Galactus image to be an equal. So, since I put Galactus ahead of Odin.. thus if Tyrant was made in that image... AND he has impressive battle feats.. I would thus put him above Odin. Yes, not by a huge amount and it would be a good fight.. but I see Tyrant winning.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
And the thread becomes a mini Superman Respect Thread in one, two... veiled? they're only about superman

I am too old lol to recall the outcome but aegis did stop norrin, odin couldnt get up vs big g, and depowered tyrant had big g on the ropes. Do i place Surtur w/Twilight above Odin yes. Do i give em the nod over Depowered T no. See told ya i to damm old for these comics lol

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Odin also pulled out a weapon to increase his blasting power..

Gungnir doesn't increase Odin's blasting power, especially not when by feats, his scepter is more impressive than Gungnir. There's also the fact that Odin's best feats and displays of power are completely independent of any item.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Odin one shotting Surfer is perfectly within the realm of feasibility given Odin's feats. What about given Surfer's feats?

Yes high end Odin vs. average Surfer yields one shot Surfer
otherwise maybe not so much

Originally posted by h1a8
What about given Surfer's feats?

Yes high end Odin vs. average Surfer yields one shot Surfer
otherwise maybe not so much

Given Surfer's feats as well, if Odin wanted to one shot Surfer, he very well could.

Said one shot was from an Odin grossly holding back.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Gungnir doesn't increase Odin's blasting power, especially not when by feats, his scepter is more impressive than Gungnir. There's also the fact that Odin's best feats and displays of power are completely independent of any item.

Ummm it actually doesn't.. it doesn't increase odin's power.. but since it makes it easier to channel and focus his power.. thus it does something beneficial for him. Hence why he brings it out. Let's not act like it does ntohing and Odin is stupid enough to make a weapon that does nothing let alone bring it out when it does nothing. It does something and that much is clear. Point is, Tyrant never needed to nor did he ever decide to bring out a weapon. Glad you didn't dispute all the other points I brough up as well.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Ummm it actually doesn't.. it doesn't increase odin's power.. but since it makes it easier to channel and focus his power.. thus it does something beneficial for him. Hence why he brings it out. Let's not act like it does ntohing and Odin is stupid enough to make a weapon that does nothing let alone bring it out when it does nothing. It does something and that much is clear. Point is, Tyrant never needed to nor did he ever decide to bring out a weapon. Glad you didn't dispute all the other points I brough up as well.

You could argue for that one issue that Gungnir was treated as a sort of tool to better channel his power while in his regular form (That's why he needs to grow to skyrocket his power) which he used the Scepter of power for classically, but that's it.

Otherwise it's just a nice big indestructible spear that he can channel energy through. It has some enchantments like returning to his hand, never missing IIRC in some of the more sword and sorcery stories but it has no reflection on the All-Father's power level.

Wait, are you trying to say that Tyrant came off more impressive because Odin used his spear? You literally just admitted it does nothing for his power levels.

love the sword

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Odin one shotting Surfer is perfectly within the realm of feasibility given Odin's feats. I agree.

I was about to disagree due to Surfer withstanding multiple blasts from Tenebrous and Aegis during Annihilation, but I just recalled that Galactus amped his powers before that scuffle. Never thought about it before, but that showing is a huge testament to how drastic Surfer's amp was.

Pre-amp, Surfer is casually one-shotted by Odin. Post-amp, Surfer endures repeated attacks from T&A without being so much as momentarily incapacitated.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, she twoshotted him. Big whoop. She is Odin level too and was specifically holding back.

Korvac isn't a skyfather.

Mrrungo's main tactic didn't work on surfer, i.e. absorbing.

I'm talking about Defenders 100 where mephisto killed him. A showing where Mephisto showed skyfather level power against galactus oneshotted surfer. How surprising!

Nitpick..

Classic Korvac is beyond Skyfather...

That point was continously emphasized in that arc; specifically it was emphasized that he was beyond Odin (who, of course, is the highest Skyfather)...

Also, when Korvac failed to one-shot the Surfer, he was toying with him; when he got serious he simply melted the silver coating on the Surfers body...

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You could argue for that one issue that Gungnir was treated as a sort of tool to better channel his power while in his regular form (That's why he needs to grow to skyrocket his power) which he used the Scepter of power for classically, but that's it.

Otherwise it's just a nice big indestructible spear that he can channel energy through. It has some enchantments like returning to his hand, never missing IIRC in some of the more sword and sorcery stories but it has no reflection on the All-Father's power level.

Wait, are you trying to say that Tyrant came off more impressive because Odin used his spear? You literally just admitted it does nothing for his power levels.

Yup we are pretty much in agreement that it does somethign.. which was my only point to Jake. The other points on why Tyrant woudl win and above Odin are on the previous page Rage. Long time man.. how you been?

Originally posted by Galan007
I agree.

I was about to disagree due to Surfer withstanding multiple blasts from Tenebrous and Aegis during Annihilation, but I just recalled that Galactus amped his powers before that scuffle. Never thought about it before, but that showing is a huge testament to how drastic Surfer's amp was.

Pre-amp, Surfer is casually one-shotted by Odin. Post-amp, Surfer endures repeated attacks from T&A without being so much as momentarily incapacitated.

And would still lose to Thor.

Was Surfer amped? It's been a long time since I read that Annihilation comic and I remember people going back and forth on it. Me? I just think it was a high showing for Surfer and I doubt he'd do any better against Odin today. If we do a tally of how many times Surfer has withstood a hit from someone from Odin's level and above compared to how many times less has knocked him out, it'd be one lopsided list.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Yup we are pretty much in agreement that it does somethign.. which was my only point to Jake. The other points on why Tyrant woudl win and above Odin are on the previous page Rage. Long time man.. how you been?

What I pointed out was literally the best argument possible for your position and I honestly don't know if you could support it. It all hinges on speculation as to what Starlin was going for which you can never actually prove. Because as I said, ultimately all evidence just points to it being an indestructible spear, I don't know that it does anything for Odin at all. At least the Scepter was designed to allow him to better channel his own internal energies but that was never the case with Gungnir.

I'll be honest, I won't read that wall of text and break it down. I've read both fights and I have no idea how Tyrant looks superior to Odin against Thanos and the Heralds.

I'm alright, busy studying and working. How about you?

We've been over this before anyways so no need to respond. It's just clear than Tyrant did better aganist Thanos and Galactus imo. Well the spear has been said to better channel and focus his power as well. I'm not saying it increases his power but it does something, and that much shoudl be clear.

Pretty much the same.. work.. play.. poker.. drinking.. repeat.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
We've been over this before anyways so no need to respond. It's just clear than Tyrant did better aganist Thanos and Galactus imo. Well the spear has been said to better channel and focus his power as well. I'm not saying it increases his power but it does something, and that much shoudl be clear.

Pretty much the same.. work.. play.. poker.. drinking.. repeat.

I don't believe he looked better against Thanos but it's been a while since I read his fight with Galactus.

You say that, but what does it do? You can't hinge an argument on his spear adding something and not even have a guess as to what that is lol. Like I said, best case, argue that its possible Starlin confused the spear's purpose for the Scepter of power. Otherwise all evidence supports the opposition, we've seen Odin describe the spear.

Well, hope you're having fun, school is killing me but I'm making good money at my new job so whatever.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Was Surfer amped? Seems like that was the intention:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15848556/1.jpg.html

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You know why Big ODG... Cause of how they did respectively against common foes.... I just told you how they did against their respective foes. Thanos didn't budge Odin. Thanos toppled DP Tyrant several times. Silver Surfer and Drax got casually one-shotted by Odin. A weakened Surfer, Gladiator and Beta Ray Bill weren't one-shotted by DP Tyrant. Prevaricating around that is rather fruitless.

Pretty simple.

Originally posted by Galan007
Seems like that was the intention:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15848556/1.jpg.html
He wasn't one shotted before that, when they first met though, right?

I also recall someone posted a scan that Galactus merely released him from his mental inhibitions.

That scene is open to debate, imo.

Galactus mentions he can give him "new power", but also states he'll "restore" him. Personally, I think he merely brought Surfer back to his peak power levels. Fraction's Defenders or Mighty Thor (the last time we saw him on a regular basis) certainly didn't seem to portray Surfer as being amped beyond his traditional levels.

I can see why people would consider it an explicit amp, though in the context of the stories. Just seems that after said stories, he wasn't any more significantly powerful than he had ever been, imho.

Originally posted by zopzop
He wasn't one shotted before that, when they first met though, right?

I also recall someone posted a scan that Galactus merely released him from his mental inhibitions. Galactus says in that scan: "I can grant you new power." To me, that statement implies that he amped Surfer. /shrug

But like Jake mentioned above: Galactus may have just restored Surfer's previous power levels. Seemed like an amp in the series itself, though. /shrug x2

Originally posted by ODG
Galactus offered Surfer several things: (i) will; (ii) renewed power; and (iii) no more remorse. Silver Surfer refuses the offer to take away his remorse. Galactus restores his will and his power. Which is confirmed here, "Galactus welcomes the Surfer back as his Herald, restoring his power and resolve":

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/More%20Random/SilverSurfer07.jpg If it were just words, you could argue that an upgrade didn't bear out on-panel. But his subsequent fight with Ravenous and Ravenous' poor, dumbstruck complexion afterwards made it abundantly clear that it did.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Galactus says in that scan: "I can grant you new power." To me, that statement implies that he amped Surfer. /shrug

True enough, but do you think Surfer since Annihilation and that scene has been portrayed as being > Surfer as he's typically always been?

See my edit.

Originally posted by Galan007
See my edit.



Yeah, I think he was "amped" in Annihilation, but after that, to me, he never seemed to be any more powerful than he's typically always been barring circumstances where his power is explicitly reduced or whatever.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That scene is open to debate, imo.

Galactus mentions he can give him "new power", but also states he'll "restore" him. Personally, I think he merely brought Surfer back to his peak power levels. Fraction's Defenders or Mighty Thor (the last time we saw him on a regular basis) certainly didn't seem to portray Surfer as being amped beyond his traditional levels.

I can see why people would consider it an explicit amp, though in the context of the stories. Just seems that after said stories, he wasn't any more significantly powerful than he had ever been, imho.



it was definitely murky, but i lean towards his being 'restored' as well, as opposed to being granted new and greater power.

doesn't really explain how he's one shot by odin and takes T & A blasts, but it seems to have been borne out that he wasn't really amped--or not much at least. shrug maybe it was odin's magic that was the difference, or maybe T & A is just another in a long list of high feats for ss....?

Originally posted by ODG
I just told you how they did against their respective foes. Thanos didn't budge Odin. Thanos toppled DP Tyrant several times. Silver Surfer and Drax got casually one-shotted by Odin. A weakened Surfer, Gladiator and Beta Ray Bill weren't one-shotted by DP Tyrant. Prevaricating around that is rather fruitless.

Pretty simple.

Nope not even close... and I responded exactly how they looked superior in great detail. Tyrant looked superior against both Thanos and Galactus. Plus if you wanna throw in heralds into the mix.. defeated a far far greater team of heralds than Odin did.

Originally posted by leonidas
maybe it was odin's magic that was the difference, or maybe T & A is just another in a long list of high feats for ss....? Or maybe he was amped. sly

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Nope not even close... and I responded exactly how they looked superior in great detail. Tyrant looked superior against both Thanos and Galactus. Plus if you wanna throw in heralds into the mix.. defeated a far far greater team of heralds than Odin did. I don't see how getting knocked to the ground and being toppled and screaming out in guttural pain makes DP Tyrant look better than Odin.... who wasn't. And had Odin some plot-device powers that allowed him to directly feed on Galactus' attacks, I'm sure Odin would have done better against Galactus. After all, Odin's direct attacks obviously did far more damage to Galactus than DP Tyrant's direct attacks, who had to resort to power drainage and technopathy. There's that too.

That Surfer, Beta Ray Bill and Gladiator are collectively a greater team than Surfer and Drax is an unextraordinary fact. As it stands, you're just completely ignoring that Odin casually one-shot Surfer and Drax when they individually attacked him... and DP Tyrant needed several shots to take down a weakened Surfer, Beta Ray Bill and Gladiator when they individually attacked him.

But it's obvious why you want to ignore that and obfuscate the simple consequences of accepting that fact.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Given Surfer's feats as well, if Odin wanted to one shot Surfer, he very well could.

Said one shot was from an Odin grossly holding back.
That doesn't make sense.
Odin can't one shot a Surfer capable of tanking blasts from beings more powerful than Odin.

Originally posted by h1a8
That doesn't make sense.
Odin can't one shot a Surfer capable of tanking blasts from beings more powerful than Odin.

Odin one shotting Surfer wasn't anything close to being one of Odin's high end feats.

Surfer enduring repeated attacks from T & A is definitely one of Surfer's high end feats.

If Odin really wanted Norrin incapacitated or worse in a single blast, it would happen if they both at their best.

Originally posted by ODG
I don't see how getting knocked to the ground and being toppled and screaming out in guttural pain makes DP Tyrant look better than Odin.... who wasn't. And had Odin some plot-device powers that allowed him to directly feed on Galactus' attacks, I'm sure Odin would have done better against Galactus. After all, Odin's direct attacks obviously did far more damage to Galactus than DP Tyrant's direct attacks, who had to resort to power drainage and technopathy. There's that too.

That Surfer, Beta Ray Bill and Gladiator are collectively a greater team than Surfer and Drax is an unextraordinary fact. As it stands, you're just completely ignoring that Odin casually one-shot Surfer and Drax when they individually attacked him... and DP Tyrant needed several shots to take down a weakened Surfer, Beta Ray Bill and Gladiator when they individually attacked him.

But it's obvious why you want to ignore that and obfuscate the simple consequences of accepting that fact.

Incorrect, a PREPPED and AMPED Thanos was able to topple Tyrant a couple of times...Ya know a battle Thanos actually sought out. In stark contrast he didn't even go looking for a fight with Odin but was seeking his help. DIdn't prep.. didn't acquire any amp.. and yet never NOT ONCE did he even think about leaving nor admitting Odin was superior. Shit, besides being hurt some by Odin's last blast... was okay and ready for more. Against tyrant in a MUCH shorter period fo time and feelign Tyrant's power.. he admitted he would be killed if he stayed.. was bleeding and cut up and then left. Nnt sure how on God's green earth odin comes off as superior. Clearly, if you ask Thanos... he would say Tyrant, since ya know, he actually admitted Tyrant was his superior and left.

You're forgetting that Galactus CREATED Tyrant and KNOWS HIM inside and out. Galactus doesn't have that same intimate knowledge of Odin. Yet Tyratn still owed him. You also forget that Galactus backed down and was hesitant to even face Tyrant because of all the collateral damage that would be caused. He had ZERO reservations about fighting Odin at all. Shit, he didn't even think it was worthy enough to find a planet rich with nutrients like he did with Tyrant. He choose a planet devoid of life. Yet Galactus beats Odin.. shit Odin one shot himself against Galactus... Tyrant counters every move by Galactus who knows him inside and out and still wins. Shit surfer knew how big a threat Tyrant was to Galactus and is quoted as sayign he needs to hurry before they BOTH destroy eachother. He had zero reservations about Galactus fighting Odin. Point is, no matter how you think the fight went.. stupid.. pis.. whatever.. Tyrant was MADE in Galactus image to be his equal. So that results could've happened that way again and again or at least some of the time. Tyrant is THAT powerful.

Yeah you're right there is a huge gap here.. but it's the opposite of what you think oddly enough.

Speaking of the heralds... Tyrant took on a much stronger team and there is no way of getting around that. Sometimes battles are shown like they are 1 v 1 fights to better show how individuals are doing. Just because it was shown that way doesn't mean they were fighting stupid or the result would've been different. Plus you're forgetting that they had received most of their power back if I'm not mistaken. You're also forgetting surfer's mindset.. he was pissed and blood lusted via narration against Tyrant... His mindset wasn't even close to that against Odin. in fact, he was there for the same reason Thanos was.. which was for help.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Odin one shotting Surfer wasn't anything close to being one of Odin's high end feats.

Surfer enduring repeated attacks from T & A is definitely one of Surfer's high end feats.

If Odin really wanted Norrin incapacitated or worse in a single blast, it would happen if they both at their best.

You're once against forgetting that Surfer was bloodlusted against Tyrant and was there to seek Odin's help when he met Odin. Do you try and hurt or incapacitate somebody you need help from? Odin one shot a semi trying Surfer.. Tyrant manhandled and laughed off a far greater team that was bloodlusted.

By the way.. I think it's perfectly reasonable for odin to have one shot surfer.. No big deal there imo

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Incorrect, a PREPPED and AMPED Thanos was able to topple Tyrant a couple of times...Ya know a battle Thanos actually sought out. In stark contrast he didn't even go looking for a fight with Odin but was seeking his help. DIdn't prep.. didn't acquire any amp.. and yet never NOT ONCE did he even think about leaving nor admitting Odin was superior. You act like Thanos was caught with his pants down. And Thanos really had no choice with Odin. PG Thor was going to break free and kill them all and Thanos knew the only way to get Odin's help was to get his undivided attention. So stop trying to paint that fight as if Odin romped and stomped onto Thanos' doorstep while he was testing different kinds of purple eyeliner. Thanos engaged Odin, full-on. Asked for Surfer's help to do it, even. Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Shit, besides being hurt some by Odin's last blast... was okay and ready for more. Against tyrant in a MUCH shorter period fo time and feelign Tyrant's power.. he admitted he would be killed if he stayed.. was bleeding and cut up and then left. Nnt sure how on God's green earth odin comes off as superior. Clearly, if you ask Thanos... he would say Tyrant, since ya know, he actually admitted Tyrant was his superior and left. Thanos managed to topple DP Tyrant, several times, elicited several gasps/grunts of pain. Thanos didn't budge Odin, even with Surfer's help. It's pretty obvious who looked superior: Odin. Well clearly, if you ask a Thanosi... someone with all the memories of Thanos, he would say, and did say Odin beat him. So there's that. Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You're forgetting that Galactus CREATED Tyrant and KNOWS HIM inside and out. Galactus doesn't have that same intimate knowledge of Odin. Yet Tyratn still owed him. You also forget that Galactus backed down and was hesitant to even face Tyrant because of all the collateral damage that would be caused. He had ZERO reservations about fighting Odin at all. Shit, he didn't even think it was worthy enough to find a planet rich with nutrients like he did with Tyrant. He choose a planet devoid of life. Yet Galactus beats Odin.. shit Odin one shot himself against Galactus... Tyrant counters every move by Galactus who knows him inside and out and still wins.

Yeah you're right there is a huge gap here.. but it's the opposite of what you think oddly enough. You're forgetting that DP Tyrant owned Galactus the same way Doom owned him. Let me know if you're witless enough to suggest that Doom surpasses Odin because of power-yoink plot mechanics. You also forget that DP Tyrant admitted he should flee when Galactus confronted him and gave up a host of heralds. Yet when DP Tyrant directly attacked Galactus, he didn't do sh1t. And Odin did. Give Odin plot-device ability to amp off Galactus' attacks, he'd have done better. Feel free to pretend otherwise.

Odin one-shot Surfer. DP Tyrant took several shots to put down a weakened Surfer. Somehow, you have the audacity to suggest that comparison is less favorable for Odin. Once you're reduced to the point of embracing clear absurdity, it's pretty clear you've got no room left to constructively discuss the issue. Which was obvious from the start.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You're once against forgetting that Surfer was bloodlusted against Tyrant and was there to seek Odin's help when he met Odin. Do you try and hurt or incapacitate somebody you need help from? Odin one shot a semi trying Surfer.. Tyrant manhandled and laughed off a far greater team that was bloodlusted.

By the way.. I think it's perfectly reasonable for odin to have one shot surfer.. No big deal there imo

Odin was greatly holding back his power the entire time. Even though Starlin had Odin state something along the likes of that Thanos was the single most impressive opponent he fought in eons or that his power rivaled his own, clearly, giving Odin's vast amount of fights and feats prior to that incident (and even after it) we know that's not the case.

The fact of the matter is that, by all rights, a lesser portrayal of Odin was able to one shot Surfer and look superior to Thanos.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Odin one shotting Surfer wasn't anything close to being one of Odin's high end feats.

Surfer enduring repeated attacks from T & A is definitely one of Surfer's high end feats.

If Odin really wanted Norrin incapacitated or worse in a single blast, it would happen if they both at their best.

Yes it is considering Surfer's feats against beings that are more powerful.

I disagree. If Surfer is operating at the same levels he shown against T and A then Odin CANNOT one shot him, based off the simple fact that T and A are more powerful than Odin.

The fact that Odin couldn't one shot Thanos proves that it was a low showing for Surfer. Thanos isn't to far above Surfer.

In conclusion, if both are at their best Odin will beat Surfer decisively but never through a one shot.

Originally posted by h1a8
Yes it is considering Surfer's feats against beings that are more powerful.

I disagree. If Surfer is operating at the same levels he shown against T and A then Odin CANNOT one shot him based off the simple fact that T and A are more powerful than Odin.

The fact that Odin couldn't one shot Thanos proves that it was a low showing for Surfer. Thanos isn't to far above Surfer.

And were T and A at their best when they dealt with Surfer?

Thanos isn't too far above Surfer? What?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Odin was greatly holding back his power the entire time.
Proof?

Odin also looked "superior" to Galactus since Thanos wasn't able to budge Odin at all yet sent Galactus flying and his armor damaged and smoldering.

Odin >>>>>> Galactus!

Oh wait.....

Originally posted by zopzop

Proof?

Odin also looked "superior" to Galactus since Thanos wasn't able to budge Odin at all yet sent Galactus flying and his armor damaged and smoldering.

Odin >>>>>> Galactus!

Oh wait.....

Based on his entire history of fights and feat?

Starlin having Odin say Thanos was the best opponent he's ever had for eons doesn't make it true. Mangog, Surtur, the Enchanters, etc. all of these guys have actually beaten up on Odin and have either killed him or brought him close to it. Thanos did not. That arc was Starlin making sure Odin > Thanos as to not be a complete fanboy for his pet, but still had him giving Thanos all the credit in the world, even if it's not entirely accurate.

People like to use that fight as a huge feat for Thanos, and it is impressive, but taking it at face value that Odin was going all out or that it's indicative of Odin's higher displays of power?

You'd have to ignore all of Odin's previous fights and feats to get to that conclusion.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Based on his entire history of fights and feat?

Starlin having Odin say Thanos was the best opponent he's ever had for eons doesn't make it true. Mangog, Surtur, the Enchanters, etc. all of these guys have actually beaten up on Odin and have either killed him or brought him close to it. Thanos did not. That arc was Starlin making sure Odin > Thanos as to not be a complete fanboy for his pet, but still had him giving Thanos all the credit in the world, even if it's not entirely accurate.

People like to use that fight as a huge feat for Thanos, and it is impressive, but taking it at face value that Odin was going all out or that it's indicative of Odin's higher displays of power?

You'd have to ignore all of Odin's previous fights and feats to get to that conclusion.
You know this how? You interviewed Starlin?

Fact is, writers tend to do their own thing. Starlin put those words in Odin's mouth. I'll go with what Starlin wanted to portray.

Originally posted by zopzop
You know this how? You interviewed Starlin?

Fact is, writers tend to do their own thing. Starlin put those words in Odin's mouth. I'll go with what Starlin wanted to portray.

I know Thanos wasn't the greatest opponent Odin has ever fought because Thanos didn't do shit to Odin.

Guys like Surtur, Mangog? They have actually beaten Odin or even came close to killing him. Thanos didn't come anywhere close to that and Odin saying Thanos has power levels rivaling his own and giving him such a great fight doesn't change that. Statements are nice if they back up previous feats and don't contradict the history (in this case, overwhelming history) of characters involved.

And as far as Starlin goes, it's no secret he has a very high opinion of Thanos. Not enough so he'd beat Odin or even be a threat to him, but enough to make Odin (mistakenly) make a comment on his behalf.

Again, you'd have to throw out all of Odin's fights prior to his scuffle with Thanos to even begin to get to that conclusion that that statement was anything close to accurate.

Also I find it funny how you're accepting Starlin's words as the gospel in this thread, but ignore the words of Gaiman and other writers as it suits you.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I know Thanos wasn't the greatest opponent Odin has ever fought because Thanos didn't do shit to Odin.

Guys like Surtur, Mangog? They have actually beaten Odin or even came close to killing him. Thanos didn't come anywhere close to that and Odin saying Thanos has power levels rivaling his own and giving him such a great fight doesn't change that. Statements are nice if they back up previous feats and don't contradict the history (in this case, overwhelming history) of characters involved.

And as far as Starlin goes, it's no secret he has a very high opinion of Thanos. Not enough so he'd beat Odin or even be a threat to him, but enough to make Odin (mistakenly) make a comment on his behalf.

Again, you'd have to throw out all of Odin's fights prior to his scuffle with Thanos to even begin to get to that conclusion that that statement was anything close to accurate.

Also I find it funny how you're accepting Starlin's words as the gospel in this thread, but ignore the words of Gaiman and other writers as it suits you.
You have a problem with Odin's statements in that Blood and Thunder arc? Take it up with Starlin.

And why deflect and bring Gaiman into this thread? Fact is, Gaiman's Death/Luthor scene doesn't conflict with anything in the Captain Atom issue featuring the three aspects of Death. Any comment Gaiman made off panel has nothing to do with anything in a VS discussion.

So try again.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


Yeah, I think he was "amped" in Annihilation, but after that, to me, he never seemed to be any more powerful than he's typically always been barring circumstances where his power is explicitly reduced or whatever. He's definitely been written more consistent and more durable since then

Plus he was turning Namor-ish level people into atoms and turning into a big mouth monster.

He seems calmer and yet colder at the same time

Originally posted by zopzop
You have a problem with Odin's statements in that Blood and Thunder arc? Take it up with Starlin.

And why deflect and bring Gaiman into this thread? Fact is, Gaiman's Death/Luthor scene doesn't conflict with anything in the Captain Atom issue featuring the three aspects of Death. Any comment Gaiman made off panel has no baring on anything in a VS discussion.

So try again.

Lol.

That statement is made false when you look at the fights Odin has had previously before encountering Thanos. Clearly so, in fact. Thanos didn't make Odin BFR Asgard out of fear that the universe was in peril. Thanos didn't make Odin contend against him across the universe in a fight that reignited suns. Thanos didn't force Odin to assume the guise of his brothers fused power form.

So why should I accept Starlin's portrayal of Odin as the gospel when clearly and unmistakably the feats contradict it multiple times?

I'm not talking about Gaiman's getting upset over Captain Atom. I'm talking about his "intent" behind the issue of Action Comics post Blackest Night with Death and Lex Luthor. How can you accept Starlin's word as the gospel (in spite of the history of feats showing us it's not true) but deny Gaiman's word (even though feats and portrayal have consistently shown that Death of the Endless is the superior face of Death)?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
He's definitely been written more consistent and more durable since then

Plus he was turning Namor-ish level people into atoms and turning into a big mouth monster.

He seems calmer and yet colder at the same time

I can agree with that. Defenders certainly had him doing more stuff than blasting people and board attacks.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I can agree with that. Defenders certainly had him doing more stuff than blasting people and board attacks. For a character who used to have a lot of low showings, he's got pretty much none now

Along with the on panel upgrade, I'd say it's sizable enough

Originally posted by zopzop
You know this how? You interviewed Starlin?

Fact is, writers tend to do their own thing. Starlin put those words in Odin's mouth. I'll go with what Starlin wanted to portray.

Yeah, but that issue of Warlock and the Infinity Watch featured several lines of BS (which was PIS ridden and an outright lie) just to make Thanos look good...

For example, Odin prasies Thanos saying that he hadnt faced such a foe in EONS...

That is a bold faced lie and is completely and utterly inaccurate; hes faced Surtur and Seth (among others) much more recently than that and they actually managed to harm Odin...

Do you agree with that zop?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Yeah, but that issue of Warlock and the Infinity Watch featured several lines of BS (which was PIS ridden and an outright lie) just to make Thanos look good...

For example, Odin prasies Thanos saying that he hadnt faced such a foe in EONS...

That is a bold faced lie and is completely and utterly inaccurate; hes faced Surtur and Seth (among others) much more recently than that and they actually managed to harm Odin...

Do you agree with that zop?
No. I go with what the writer stated LoM. Once we start ignoring what the writer clearly intended to portray, there's no point to anything on this forum.

Hell Odin even said Thanos taps into a power nearly as limitless as he, Odin, does.

Originally posted by zopzop
No. I go with what the writer stated LoM. Once we start ignoring what the writer clearly intended to portray, there's no point to anything on this forum.

Hell Odin even said Thanos taps into a power nearly as limitless as he, Odin, does.

facepalm

But we know that's not true.

Thanos' feats don't come close to Odin's best, and Thanos didn't come close to putting Odin down like other beings have.

Writer intent and statements are nice, but if they're clearly contradicted by on panel feats, they hold less water than a net.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
facepalm

But we know that's not true.

Thanos' feats don't come close to Odin's best, and Thanos didn't come close to putting Odin down like other beings have.

Writer intent and statements are nice, but if they're clearly contradicted by on panel feats, they hold less water than a net.
Take that up with Starlin, he wrote the damn thing. That's what he wanted to portray and that's what he penned. Don't like it? Oh well.

Originally posted by zopzop
Take that up with Starlin, he wrote the damn thing. That's what he wanted to portray and that's what he penned. Don't like it? Oh well.



I'll take a collective history of feats and battles w/statements and writer intent over Starlin's throw away line of dialogue.

There's way more evidence supporting my argument then there is against it, which is literally that single line of dialogue.

How you can ignore the majority of feats/statements/etc. in favor of one that's very quickly contradicted when you take a step back is beyond me.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


I'll take a collective history of feats and battles w/statements and writer intent over Starlin's throw away line of dialogue.

There's way more evidence supporting my argument then there is against it, which is literally that single line of dialogue.

How you can ignore the majority of feats/statements/etc. in favor of one that's very quickly contradicted when you take a step back is beyond me.
Why are you raggin' on me? I didn't write the damn arc. Go cry to Starlin.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
facepalm

But we know that's not true.

Thanos' feats don't come close to Odin's best, and Thanos didn't come close to putting Odin down like other beings have.

Writer intent and statements are nice, but if they're clearly contradicted by on panel feats, they hold less water than a net.



Jake, do you remember when Odin arrived on the battlefield in that issue?

One of the Asgardians shows surprise and couldnt remember the last time Odin took to the battlefield...LoL!!!!

So now all of the Asgardian Race (Odin included) possesses Alheimzers Disease!? According to Starlin they do...

There was a ridiculous amount of bad writting in that issue that gets overlooked because people like Thanos...

Originally posted by zopzop
Why are you raggin' on me? I didn't write the damn arc. Go cry to Starlin.

I'm not raggin' on you.

I'm just not sure how you can take Starlin's quote as the gospel and literally ignore everything else suggesting the opposite?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder


Jake, do you remember when Odin arrived on the battlefield in that issue?

One of the Asgardians shows surprise and couldnt remember the last time Odin took to the battlefield...LoL!!!!

So now all of the Asgardian Race (Odin included) possesses Alheimzers Disease!? According to Starlin they do...

There was a ridiculous amount of bad writting in that issue that gets overlooked because people like Thanos...

Lol, I didn't recall that, but yeah, that's dumb. Odin's battled alongside the Asgardians or has entered personal combat a lot more often than they let on.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
He's definitely been written more consistent and more durable since then

Plus he was turning Namor-ish level people into atoms and turning into a big mouth monster.

He seems calmer and yet colder at the same time

Beat the phuck out of Ravenous. Surfed the Big Crunch swell onto Tenebrous and Aegis. Beat the phuck out of Nova Prime. Beat the phuck out of Beta Ray Bill. Beat the phuck out of Skaar. Incinerated High Evolutionary's terraformation of the Moon. Matched Thor. Etc.

Completely forgot about that lol. Yea, it seems Starlin was either taking a lot of liberties there or really hadn't read any Thor issues since the Lee JiM days.

Originally posted by ODG
You act like Thanos was caught with his pants down. And Thanos really had no choice with Odin. PG Thor was going to break free and kill them all and Thanos knew the only way to get Odin's help was to get his undivided attention. So stop trying to paint that fight as if Odin romped and stomped onto Thanos' doorstep while he was testing different kinds of purple eyeliner. Thanos engaged Odin, full-on. Asked for Surfer's help to do it, even. Thanos managed to topple DP Tyrant, several times, elicited several gasps/grunts of pain. Thanos didn't budge Odin, even with Surfer's help. It's pretty obvious who looked superior: Odin. Well clearly, if you ask a Thanosi... someone with all the memories of Thanos, he would say, and did say Odin beat him. So there's that. You're forgetting that DP Tyrant owned Galactus the same way Doom owned him. Let me know if you're witless enough to suggest that Doom surpasses Odin because of power-yoink plot mechanics. You also forget that DP Tyrant admitted he should flee when Galactus confronted him and gave up a host of heralds. Yet when DP Tyrant directly attacked Galactus, he didn't do sh1t. And Odin did. Give Odin plot-device ability to amp off Galactus' attacks, he'd have done better. Feel free to pretend otherwise.

Odin one-shot Surfer. DP Tyrant took several shots to put down a weakened Surfer. Somehow, you have the audacity to suggest that comparison is less favorable for Odin. Once you're reduced to the point of embracing clear absurdity, it's pretty clear you've got no room left to constructively discuss the issue. Which was obvious from the start.

I never once claimed that Thanos still wanted to have Tea wth Odin even after he was refusing to help. What I am claiming and what is undeniable is that you don't incapacitate nor hurt somebody you NEED their help on. That is totally illogical and for you to even suggest it's the same as LOOKING for a fight and PREPPING AND AMPING for one is downright retarded.

Thanos against Odin
1. Was seekign his help.. you clearly aren't going to try as hard to put somebody down you need their help on. Trying to get their attention.. trying to subdue them.. sure... but would never be with the same vigor as actually wanting a fight and SEEKING a fight.
2. Thanos didn't prep for his battle with Odin
3. Thanos didn't acquire an amp for his battle with Odin
4. Thanos never backed down.. never admitted Odin was his superior.. never admitted Odin could kill him..
5. Odin brought out a weapon to put Thanos down

Thanos against Tyrant
1. Thanos went looking for a fight with Tyrant to test his might
2. Thanos prepped and studied Tyrant looking for a weakness to exploit
3. Thanos acquired an amp to fight Tyrant
4. In a much shorter battle Thanos admitted that if he stayed Tyrant would kill him and proceded to leave.
5. Tyrant never brought out a single weapon to help put Thanos down.

All of the above are indisputable facts that paint Tyrant as the stronger foe. Literally.. the ONLY thing that even points to even coming across as superior is the fact that THanos attacks didn't seem to have the same effect on Odin as they did on Tyrant. However, that is easily explained by Thanos being amped against Tyrant and not Odin.. and again Thanos not trying as hard since he wasn't even seeking a fight.

Galactus against Odin
1. Didn't even think of feeding on a planet ripe with nutrients , in fact, he choose a wasteland
2. Didn't even think about backing down from Odin nor even commenting that his battle with Odin with wreck much of anything
3. Galactus doesn't even know Odin very well and certainly not as well as he knows Tyrant.. and yet Odin was still beaten and beaten soundly

Galactus against Tyrant
1. Galactus sends his herald to find a planet ripe in nutrients. He proceeds to say he hasn't felt this strong in ages
2. Galactus DID back down from Tyrant when they met and said that too much woudl be destroyed if they fought. He was clearly weary of Tyrant and this was expressed via narration numerous times. He NEVER expressed concern about facing Odin
3. Galactus knows Tyrant IN and OUT.. he literally created him to be in his own image. Yet, he still got owned by Tyrant even still.

Clearly, Tyrant came across as superior against Galactus than Odin did. Again the above are indisputable facts. Are you forgetting that Tyrant was created in Galactus image to be his equal. Do you put Odin above Galactus? If not, then how is Odin above somebody created in Galactus image and beat Galactus himself? That is totally illogical and ass backwards.

Literally NONE of the attacks of those heralds even fazed tyrant one bit. Shit we've seen Thor hurt odin with his hammer. BRB literally threw his hammer full force at Tyrant and it did NOTHING. Didn't do a thing. Tyrant beats a team that would utterally crush a half trying surfer and draz and you go... ohhh odin looked for impressive WTF. Tyrant laughed at the team and literally owned them with utter ease.

the ONLY literally the ONLY thing you have that makes you believe odin is greater than Tyrant is Odin not being moved from the attacks of Thanos. Again though, that is easily explained by the amp. To go further... Thanos WITHOUT an amp sent Galactus flying hundreds of feat out of his ship and councing on a moon... yet he didn't budge Odin... So does that mean Odin greater than Galactus? See what I did there? Sorry bud, game over.

Originally posted by zopzop
Hell Odin even said Thanos taps into a power nearly as limitless as he, Odin, does.

Odin said it, but Starlin made him say it...

The same Starlin that wrote the Asgardians as a bunch of old folks that lack long term memories...

The same Starlin that made Odin tell a bold faced lie about the last time hes faced such a foe...

That was badly written zop...

Originally posted by ODG


Beat the phuck out of Ravenous. Surfed the Big Crunch swell onto Tenebrous and Aegis. Beat the phuck out of Nova Prime. Beat the phuck out of Beta Ray Bill. Beat the phuck out of Skaar. Incinerated High Evolutionary's terraformation of the Moon. Matched Thor. Etc.

Yea, Surfer has been pretty beastly lately. The only time he hasn't steamrolled his opponents recently is Thor and Worthy Attuma.

All Attuma did was knock him away though

Somehow that translates into lol embarrassing

It's funny because even in the Lee days, Odin got taken to the brink by opponents in a manner than Thanos wasn't able to match.

Even in the context of the story itself, Thanos didn't display power equal to Odin's, yet that statement should be taken at face value?

Thanos' showed great durability and willpower standing against Odin. But let's not warp it into Thanos being equal to Odin or giving Odin the greatest fight he's had in eons when it's clearly not true.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Odin said it, but Starlin made him say it...

The same Starlin that wrote the Asgardians as a bunch of old folks that lack long term memories...

The same Starlin that made Odin tell a bold faced lie about the last time hes faced such a foe...

That was badly writen zop...

Are you suggesting we pick and choice what writers have characters say.. and question each and every line? No, they have them say what they are intended to say and feel. Period.. There are exceptions... but I certainly hope you're not advocating we don't give credit to what characters say and personally decide what we wanna throw out.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
All Attuma did was knock him away though

Somehow that translates into lol embarrassing

I don't know who said it was embarrassing but he definitely didn't look good and it pretty clear that Attuma was intended to be more powerful than Surfer or the Defenders.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yea, Surfer has been pretty beastly lately. The only time he hasn't steamrolled his opponents recently is Thor and Worthy Attuma. And Lord Mar-Vell.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Are you suggesting we pick and choice what writers have characters say.. and question each and every line? No, they have them say what they are intended to say and feel. Period.. There are exceptions... but I certainly hope you're not advocating we don't give credit to what characters say and personally decide what we wanna throw out.

It's not personally picking and choosing what counts. It's matching statements up against feats.

In this case, there are way more feats suggesting that statement was false than there is suggesting it's accurate. Statements and writer intent are great tools to have for gauging characters, but if the actions of characters contradict them more than once or to such great degrees, those statements mean little, if anything.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Are you suggesting we pick and choice what writers have characters say.. and question each and every line? No, they have them say what they are intended to say and feel. Period.. There are exceptions... but I certainly hope you're not advocating we don't give credit to what characters say and personally decide what we wanna throw out.

Why shouldnt we question every line of dialog, when we do it anyway?

You certainly do it when there is something in a given text that is pro-Thanos...

Why shouldnt we point out writter BS as well; especially when its clearly BS...

The points I've made about the bad writting in Warlock and the Infinity Watch 25 are an example of this; several lines of text in it is poorly written and you cant really argue otherwise (you are welcomed to try, but I'll rip you apart argument wise if you do)...

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's not personally picking and choosing what counts. It's matching statements up against feats.

In this case, there are way more feats suggesting that statement was false than there is suggesting it's accurate. Statements and writer intent are great tools to have for gauging characters, but if the actions of characters contradict them more than once or to such great degrees, those statements mean little, if anything.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I never once claimed that Thanos still wanted to have Tea wth Odin even after he was refusing to help. What I am claiming and what is undeniable is that you don't incapacitate nor hurt somebody you NEED their help on. Thanos didn't have to worry about incapacitating or hurting Odin. He wasn't powerful enough to, anyway. As the fight clearly showed since Thanos never budged him. Nice try attempting to paint Thanos as holding back though, "Yo, Surfer, divebomb Odin with me but make sure you secretly go 50% like me, otherwise when comic fans watch us get ragdolled for pages on end, they'll be upset."

I like how you also tried to invoke an imaginary Thanos telling us DP Tyrant was superior to Odin, when we have an on-panel Thanosi with his memories telling us Odin outdid DP Tyrant by beating him. Which is evident from Odin one-shotting high heralds like Surfer, whilst DP Tyrant took several shots to down a weakened Silver Surfer.

Which is all meaningless anyway, since Odin is superior to DP Tyrant based on pure feats of power. DP Tyrant never caused reverberations through the multiverse, teleported planetary populations in a blink, stopped/reversed time on a planet, created an entire world out of sheer nothing just by walking in space, channeled universe-busting energies, etc.

But whatever. You're still woefully flummoxed and denying that Odin's one-shot of Surfer made him look superior to DP Tyrant's multiple shots to down a drained, weakened Surfer. Which is fine. You're stuck in a mud-puddle of absurdity squirming for release by fomenting some myth about Thanos holding back on Odin. Hilarious.

Glad you couldn't counter the indisputable facts I laid out very clearly. Good thing Tyrant has never been beaten by ants.. nor has he been poised like a chump with meager prep from a clone.. The real deal had prep against Tyrant and look where it got him. A clone does a little prep and Odin is left drinking out of a straw. Good thing a clone also ordered around somebody like a dog.. the same dog that has beaten odin and carried his limp body around like a trophy.. good think Tyrant didn't one shot KO himself against Galactus.. he only beat Galactus anc countered every move he had.. he wasn't pitiful enough to KO himself on Galactus.

^ Glad you can't get over the two simplest facts I threw in your face -- Odin one-shot Surfer and wasn't budged by Thanos, DP Tyrant didn't one-shot a weakened Surfer and was toppled by Thanos a bunch -- and are forced to move the goalposts of a discussion because you've got no egress on it. Way to buttress your absurdity by sidestepping it altogether when called out on it. Not that I didn't make cutting observations over your tangents (force of habit). But it's fair for me to remind you when you stop talking about the original issue and why it's so painfully obvious you won't.

Of course, then you started making up a "Thanos held back against Odin" myth. Which is probably more retarded than the old "Odin used his fullpower against Thanos" myth. That was altogether too stupid to simply ignore. Let us know how much purchase you attain in these threads the more you peddle that idiotic notion.

Originally posted by zopzop
No. I go with what the writer stated LoM. Once we start ignoring what the writer clearly intended to portray, there's no point to anything on this forum.

Hell Odin even said Thanos taps into a power nearly as limitless as he, Odin, does.

wut? i just read through this and i didn't see anyone suggest we ignore what thanos said. not sure where you're getting that notion. what i really want to know though is why you place more stock in a single comment than in MYRIAD feats? and why you put so much stock in THIS writer's portrayal over portrayals of other writers? hell, odin has called himself all powerful. thor has said odin is unbeatable. so, each said it, therefore you must clearly accept it since obviously the intent of those writers was made clear by those statements, right? no? well, why is it that you accept odin saying thanos was the most powerful foe he's faced in an eon, but NOT accept that SAME odin saying he is all powerful? or another writer who has thor say odin cannot be beaten? i'll field that for you--because odin's feats and history make clear that those statements are false. like he feats and battles prove his statement to thanos was false.

wth zop? your stance is ludicrous. one comment (not even a feat ffs) clearly does NOT override all previous showings of a character. i can't believe that even has to be explained.

Originally posted by Galan007
Or maybe he was amped. sly

lol

or that. i do agree he has been written a little differently, but to me it seems that he has simply been more ruthless. i think he was likely always able to do what he's been doing, but he mentioned his WILL. maybe it's like owaw superman? perhaps the governor has just been refused?

Originally posted by leonidas
lol

or that. i do agree he has been written a little differently, but to me it seems that he has simply been more ruthless. i think he was likely always able to do what he's been doing, but he mentioned his WILL. maybe it's like owaw superman? perhaps the governor has just been refused? Funny he still holds back and is able to own

I don't think anyone has defeated him in recent memory.

Originally posted by kgkg
Funny he still holds back and is able to own

I don't think anyone has defeated him in recent memory.

Hmm, let's see if Daredevil doesn't break that trend with an armbar.

http://www.newsarama.com/17752-silver-surfer-surfaces-in-august-s-daredevil-30.html

Also one of surfer's most humiliating "feats" occured just after his supposed amp i.e. BP armbarring him and threatening to rip his arm out. Not to mention Ravenous was stalemating him after his amp untill surfer killed his curr.
ha-som

Originally posted by ODG
^ Glad you can't get over the two simplest facts I threw in your face -- Odin one-shot Surfer and wasn't budged by Thanos, DP Tyrant didn't one-shot a weakened Surfer and was toppled by Thanos a bunch -- and are forced to move the goalposts of a discussion because you've got no egress on it. Way to buttress your absurdity by sidestepping it altogether when called out on it. Not that I didn't make cutting observations over your tangents (force of habit). But it's fair for me to remind you when you stop talking about the original issue and why it's so painfully obvious you won't.

Of course, then you started making up a "Thanos held back against Odin" myth. Which is probably more retarded than the old "Odin used his fullpower against Thanos" myth. That was altogether too stupid to simply ignore. Let us know how much purchase you attain in these threads the more you peddle that idiotic notion.



No, I simple turned your own logic against you, and you hate when I do that ODG. Your whole point and ONLY point was that Thanos didn't budge Odin, but moved Tyrant, thus Odin is more powerful. I destroyed that theory by simply pointing out that Thaons was amped against Tyrant and not against Odin. Ya know, because Thanos viewed Tyratn as a legit threat and somebody he watned to challenge. He prepped for Tyrant got an amp to fight Tyrant. So of course that can explain why he moved him. However, to totally crush your theory, Thanos didnt' budge Odin but sent flying a well fed galactus. So then but your theory Odin > Galactus... WAIT... We all know that is the exact opposite of true. So how easy it was to destroy yoru ONLY proof that Odin is above Tyrant.

This simple facts that can't be overcome in this debate is this... Thanos prepped for Tyrant.. acquired an amp to fight Tyrant... sought a fight with Tyrant... and in a much shorter period of time ADMITTED Tyrant was his superior and left. Against Odin... Thanos didn't prep.. didn't have an amp.. and yet in a much longer fight NEVER once admitted Odin was his superior and never once thought about backing down. We all know that is pretty easy to see how Thanos thought was more powerful, but to make matters worse and more clear.... A Thanos clone with minimal prep.. made Odin his ***** and forced to eat out of a straw... Thanos prepped for Tyrant and got an amp and he could do nothing but run from Tyrant aftetr feeling his power. That is how far apart Odin and Tyrant. are.

Shit, the same Thanos clone was ordering around Mangog like he was his *****, after makign Odin his *****. Problem is, that same guy Thanos was ordering around like a dog has made Odin his ***** to. Damn that's bad.

Originally posted by leonidas
wut? i just read through this and i didn't see anyone suggest we ignore what thanos said. not sure where you're getting that notion. what i really want to know though is why you place more stock in a single comment than in MYRIAD feats? and why you put so much stock in THIS writer's portrayal over portrayals of other writers? hell, odin has called himself all powerful. thor has said odin is unbeatable. so, each said it, therefore you must clearly accept it since obviously the intent of those writers was made clear by those statements, right? no? well, why is it that you accept odin saying thanos was the most powerful foe he's faced in an eon, but NOT accept that SAME odin saying he is all powerful? or another writer who has thor say odin cannot be beaten? i'll field that for you--because odin's feats and history make clear that those statements are false. like he feats and battles prove his statement to thanos was false.

wth zop? your stance is ludicrous. one comment (not even a feat ffs) clearly does NOT override all previous showings of a character. i can't believe that even has to be explained.

What was the context of those comments? Don't leave that out Leonidas............

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
No, I simple turned your own logic against you, and you hate when I do that ODG. Your whole point and ONLY point was that Thanos didn't budge Odin, but moved Tyrant, thus Odin is more powerful. I destroyed that theory by simply pointing out that Thaons was amped against Tyrant and not against Odin. Ya know, because Thanos viewed Tyratn as a legit threat and somebody he watned to challenge. He prepped for Tyrant got an amp to fight Tyrant. So of course that can explain why he moved him. However, to totally crush your theory, Thanos didnt' budge Odin but sent flying a well fed galactus. So then but your theory Odin > Galactus... WAIT... We all know that is the exact opposite of true. So how easy it was to destroy yoru ONLY proof that Odin is above Tyrant.

This simple facts that can't be overcome in this debate is this... Thanos prepped for Tyrant.. acquired an amp to fight Tyrant... sought a fight with Tyrant... and in a much shorter period of time ADMITTED Tyrant was his superior and left. Against Odin... Thanos didn't prep.. didn't have an amp.. and yet in a much longer fight NEVER once admitted Odin was his superior and never once thought about backing down. We all know that is pretty easy to see how Thanos thought was more powerful, but to make matters worse and more clear.... A Thanos clone with minimal prep.. made Odin his ***** and forced to eat out of a straw... Thanos prepped for Tyrant and got an amp and he could do nothing but run from Tyrant aftetr feeling his power. That is how far apart Odin and Tyrant. are.

Shit, the same Thanos clone was ordering around Mangog like he was his *****, after makign Odin his *****. Problem is, that same guy Thanos was ordering around like a dog has made Odin his ***** to. Damn that's bad.

Your reasoning is a lot more reasonable and logical

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi


Thanos against Odin
1. Was seekign his help.. you clearly aren't going to try as hard to put somebody down you need their help on. Trying to get their attention.. trying to subdue them.. sure... but would never be with the same vigor as actually wanting a fight and SEEKING a fight.
2. Thanos didn't prep for his battle with Odin
3. Thanos didn't acquire an amp for his battle with Odin
4. Thanos never backed down.. never admitted Odin was his superior.. never admitted Odin could kill him..
5. Odin brought out a weapon to put Thanos down

Thanos against Tyrant
1. Thanos went looking for a fight with Tyrant to test his might
2. Thanos prepped and studied Tyrant looking for a weakness to exploit
3. Thanos acquired an amp to fight Tyrant
4. In a much shorter battle Thanos admitted that if he stayed Tyrant would kill him and proceded to leave.
5. Tyrant never brought out a single weapon to help put Thanos down.

All of the above are indisputable facts that paint Tyrant as the stronger foe. Literally.. the ONLY thing that even points to even coming across as superior is the fact that THanos attacks didn't seem to have the same effect on Odin as they did on Tyrant. However, that is easily explained by Thanos being amped against Tyrant and not Odin.. and again Thanos not trying as hard since he wasn't even seeking a fight.

Galactus against Odin
1. Didn't even think of feeding on a planet ripe with nutrients , in fact, he choose a wasteland
2. Didn't even think about backing down from Odin nor even commenting that his battle with Odin with wreck much of anything
3. Galactus doesn't even know Odin very well and certainly not as well as he knows Tyrant.. and yet Odin was still beaten and beaten soundly

Galactus against Tyrant
1. Galactus sends his herald to find a planet ripe in nutrients. He proceeds to say he hasn't felt this strong in ages
2. Galactus DID back down from Tyrant when they met and said that too much woudl be destroyed if they fought. He was clearly weary of Tyrant and this was expressed via narration numerous times. He NEVER expressed concern about facing Odin
3. Galactus knows Tyrant IN and OUT.. he literally created him to be in his own image. Yet, he still got owned by Tyrant even still.

Perfect assessment, I'm proud of you son.
One other thing about Tyrant needing more shots against the heralds, Tyrant 2 shorted a fresh Surfer as soon as he and Ganymede arrived at Tyrants fortress.Tyrant is fully capable of one shoting a herald if he goes beast mode and alters his body to produce talons like vs Galactus. He was just having fun with the heralds.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Also one of surfer's most humiliating "feats" occured just after his supposed amp i.e. BP armbarring him and threatening to rip his arm out. Not to mention Ravenous was stalemating him after his amp untill surfer killed his curr.
ha-som
Still sippin on dat haterade eh?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Also one of surfer's most humiliating "feats" occured just after his supposed amp i.e. BP armbarring him and threatening to rip his arm out. Not to mention Ravenous was stalemating him after his amp untill surfer killed his curr.
ha-som
http://dwaynemcduffie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10&p=72689&hilit=silver+surfer

From the writer (McDuffie) himself:

"Read the scene again and this time pay attention. The Surfer allowed the Panther to "restrain" him in the hope of finding out what the FF was up to. A panel later, the Surfer's assistant blasts the Panther unconscious. The Surfer is irritated because he wanted the Panther to talk, which he thought he might do if the Panther believed he had the upper hand. Most of the people who ***** about this have only seen a scan of one page, or have poor reading comprehension skills."

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi

2. Galactus DID back down from Tyrant when they met and said that too much woudl be destroyed if they fought. He was clearly weary of Tyrant and this was expressed via narration numerous times. He NEVER expressed concern about facing Odin

Excellent summary but I just wanted to add to this. A FED Galactus (on a world that "flourished" with life), under Ron Marz's pen, backed down from Tyrant :
http://s7.postimg.org/s36trk2fb/fed.jpg
The entire series of events starts in Silver Surfer 75 (Galactus feeds) and ends in Silver Surfer 82 (Galactus backs down from "DP" Tyrant).

Check out the issues yourself. It's even more damning because Galactus went through a lot of trouble to resurrect Morg and that's why he was hell bent on reclaiming him. Yet he backed down when Tyrant REFUSED to hand him over. Silver Surfer even called him out on "appeasing a foe".

@Thanosi...

You stated the following:

"3. Galactus knows Tyrant IN and OUT.. he literally created him to be in his own image."


Yet despite knowing Tyrant "IN and OUT," Galactus somehow managed to forget Tyrants ENTIRE POWERSET when they fought (and to make it even worse, its all clearly stated and seen on panel)...

Thank you for admitting that Tyrant beating Galactus was one of the most PIS-ridden fights in the history of Marvel Comics...

Originally posted by vince_slice
http://dwaynemcduffie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10&p=72689&hilit=silver+surfer

From the writer (McDuffie) himself:

"Read the scene again and this time pay attention. The Surfer allowed the Panther to "restrain" him in the hope of finding out what the FF was up to. A panel later, the Surfer's assistant blasts the Panther unconscious. The Surfer is irritated because he wanted the Panther to talk, which he thought he might do if the Panther believed he had the upper hand. Most of the people who ***** about this have only seen a scan of one page, or have poor reading comprehension skills."

Thanks for this. I still think McDuffie was out of line if he blames the readers for misinterpreting the scene.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@Thanosi...

You stated the following:

"3. Galactus knows Tyrant IN and OUT.. he literally created him to be in his own image."


Yet despite knowing Tyrant "IN and OUT," Galactus somehow managed to forget Tyrants ENTIRE POWERSET when they fought (and to make it even worse, its all clearly stated and seen on panel)...

Thank you for admitting that Tyrant beating Galactus was one of the most PIS-ridden fights in the history of Marvel Comics...



That could very likely NOT be PIS because Tyrant was in exile getting his power back for 1,000's of years. So, if he was gaining his power back... it only stands to reason he could develop some new tricks, increase his versatility or even just perfect the powers he had. This is perfectly logical and reaonable for somebody hell bent on reclaiming his throne would do or what anybody would do. The more you tinker with your powers you become even better at them and learn new ones...

Originally posted by Raisen
What was the context of those comments? Don't leave that out Leonidas............

the context of what....?

they were....fighting. everyone knows when and where and how it was said. the statement absolutely does not supercede the myriad showings that took place before and after it. not sure what your point is.....

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
That could very likely NOT be PIS because Tyrant was in exile getting his power back for 1,000's of years. So, if he was gaining his power back... it only stands to reason he could develop some new tricks, increase his versatility or even just perfect the powers he had. This is perfectly logical and reaonable for somebody hell bent on reclaiming his throne would do or what anybody would do. The more you tinker with your powers you become even better at them and learn new ones...

Dude, stop trying to BS this in a way that makes Tyrant look good and the writting legit; IT CLEARLY IS STATED ON PANEL THAT GALACTUS FORGOT WHAT TYRANT COULD DO...

There were no new tricks; Galactus forgot...

Thats what was written...

And its massive PIS as a result...

Look at the massive PIS; Galactus is senile and lacks long term memory on someone he prepped for and knows "IN and OUT!"

This actually happens all the time.. Just look at MMA as a real world example... Anderson Silva knows Sonnen's best bet to beat him and his greatest strength is his ground and pound. That didn't stop him from getting taken down. As he stated... when you're in the heat of battle and fist are flying you forget your gameplan and what the guy can do. This happen ALL the time in MMA and boxing...football etc etc Just because you knew somethign before when you are game planning and studying tape.. doesn't mean you'll be able to execute it nor remember every little thing when you're fighting for your life.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Look at the massive PIS; Galactus is senile and lacks long term memory on someone he prepped for and knows "IN and OUT!"
It happens a lot with Galactus.

Reed drove him away from the Earth the first time they tangled by dangling the Nullifier in his face.

When Morg had the Nullifier, Galactus was screaming at the top of his lungs for him to hand it over.

I even think he was punked by a FAKE Nullifier one time too.

Yet against Abraxas, Galactus called the Nullifier to his hand claiming it was a part of him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Also one of surfer's most humiliating "feats" occured just after his supposed amp i.e. BP armbarring him and threatening to rip his arm out. Not to mention Ravenous was stalemating him after his amp untill surfer killed his curr.
ha-som

Lol...just lol.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
This actually happens all the time.. Just look at MMA as a real world example... Anderson Silva knows Sonnen's best bet to beat him and his greatest strength is his ground and pound. That didn't stop him from getting taken down. As he stated... when you're in the heat of battle and fist are flying you forget your gameplan and what the guy can do. This happen ALL the time in MMA and boxing...football etc etc Just because you knew somethign before when you are game planning and studying tape.. doesn't mean you'll be able to execute it nor remember every little thing when you're fighting for your life.

BS...

This is Galactus...not a normal human being.

Galactus is an energy being; there are no neurons that fail to fire or recieve a signal that leads to a failure to retrieve a memory like it does in humans...

There is no justification for it; stops trying to make the writting be right when it clearly isnt...

Galactus should never forget; especially when dealing with someone he knows he is facing and is prepped for...

Again, stop trying to BS your way araound it; the wriiting sucked and was massive PIS...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
BS...

This is Galactus...not a normal human being.

Galactus is an energy being;
Actually he is and isn't. He's bled NUMEROUS times. Vs Tyrant. Vs the Hunger. He drools. He sweats. When he's starving he becomes emaciated. Etc..

Originally posted by abhilegend
Also one of surfer's most humiliating "feats" occured just after his supposed amp i.e. BP armbarring him and threatening to rip his arm out. Not to mention Ravenous was stalemating him after his amp untill surfer killed his curr.
ha-som

One has Surfer pretending to lose and the other has Surfer making an opponent, who (just an issue or 2 ago) was writting as his equal, poop his pants (blowing up a planet just to prove a point).

I know there's a smiley face and maybe this was written in "jest" (you've been doing this a lot recently) but I don't feel where the humor is other than utter wrongness of the statement, man. Surely, Surfer has had worse showings than these?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
No, I simple turned your own logic against you, and you hate when I do that ODG. Your whole point and ONLY point was that Thanos didn't budge Odin, but moved Tyrant, thus Odin is more powerful. I destroyed that theory by simply pointing out that Thaons was amped against Tyrant and not against Odin. Ya know, because Thanos viewed Tyratn as a legit threat and somebody he watned to challenge. He prepped for Tyrant got an amp to fight Tyrant. So of course that can explain why he moved him. Huh. And here I thought you were the second biggest naysayer that the orb helped Thanos: Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Okay I asked for PROOF that Thanos was amped... and you gave me speculation. Thanos trying to get an orb and scrabbling to do so ISN'T PROOF Stoic. You claiming that is proof is so amusing I don't know where to begin. Proof would be narration saying the orb was amping Thanos strength or blast. There was ZERO narration like that. Don't you understand that him scrabbling to get the orb could be very EASILY and SIMPLY be explained by that being his brize. He didn't want to lose his prize to study. Prize becvause it was something to gain knowledge from and because it was taken from Tyrant. He scrabbilng to get it is easily explain by that being his prize. Glad to know we cleared that up. Thanos did use the orb to strike and blast DP Tyrant. Too bad you forgot that Thanos actually punched DP Tyrant with his bare fist (not the one holding the orb) and toppled him also:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Random/DPTyrant02.jpg

So yea. Too bad you forgot about that. It helps to read the comic. Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
However, to totally crush your theory, Thanos didnt' budge Odin but sent flying a well fed galactus. So then but your theory Odin > Galactus... WAIT... We all know that is the exact opposite of true. So how easy it was to destroy yoru ONLY proof that Odin is above Tyrant. Thanos sucker-shot Galactus. That's the difference. We've been through this before. The same way Thor sucker-shot Odin. Galactus threatened Thanos and told him to gtfo. Odin actually backhanded Thor and told him to stfu. Neither Galactus, nor Odin actually expected Thanos and Thor to have the temerity or audacity to strike them as it would be tantamount to suicide. Thanos never sucker-shot DP Tyrant or Odin. Sad to see you completely ignored the last conversation we had on this. Even sadder to see you pretend like we never went through this before. Your selective amnesia would almost be insulting if I didn't already know your m.o. Nice try. Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
This simple facts that can't be overcome in this debate is this... Thanos prepped for Tyrant.. acquired an amp to fight Tyrant... sought a fight with Tyrant... and in a much shorter period of time ADMITTED Tyrant was his superior and left. Against Odin... Thanos didn't prep.. didn't have an amp.. and yet in a much longer fight NEVER once admitted Odin was his superior and never once thought about backing down. We all know that is pretty easy to see how Thanos thought was more powerful, but to make matters worse and more clear.... A Thanos clone with minimal prep.. made Odin his ***** and forced to eat out of a straw... Thanos prepped for Tyrant and got an amp and he could do nothing but run from Tyrant aftetr feeling his power. That is how far apart Odin and Tyrant. are. A Thanosi with the memories of Thanos admitted Odin beat him. Thanos toppled DP Tyrant with a strike but never budged Odin. DP Tyrant needed several shots to put down a weakened Surfer, Odin easily one-shot him.

Odin has a plethora of straight feats of personal power that are superior to DP Tyrant's. Which I went over and you completely ignore because they hurt your butt. By all means, keep ignoring them. Allows me to remind you repeatedly that you have absolutely no answer for em. Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Shit, the same Thanos clone was ordering around Mangog like he was his *****, after makign Odin his *****. Problem is, that same guy Thanos was ordering around like a dog has made Odin his ***** to. Damn that's bad. Not classic Mangog. You were nearly warned the last time you kept ignoring that in a thread after being repeatedly reminded. You get one warning from me here and now, otherwise I will be reporting you for lying about characters. You don't get a pass on this, not after the last time.

Thanos + Surfer vs Odin :
http://s21.postimg.org/hlkaqk4hv/Odin_Vs_Thanos1.jpg

Thanos by himself vs Galactus :
http://s12.postimg.org/yfqlx0l5l/592323_2333504_2285448_696884_thanosblast_big_g2.jpg

Since Thanos affected Galactus or Tyrant more than he did Odin, clearly Odin is more powerful than Galactus or Tyrant.

/thread

^ The conversation that KuRuPT Thanosi conveniently forgot was the same exact one we had: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=572718&pagenumber=6

I like how you pretend that we haven't gone through this before. I imagine you'll end up pretending we haven't discussed this at least 3 more times before the year is out.

Originally posted by vince_slice
http://dwaynemcduffie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10&p=72689&hilit=silver+surfer

From the writer (McDuffie) himself:

"Read the scene again and this time pay attention. The Surfer allowed the Panther to "restrain" him in the hope of finding out what the FF was up to. A panel later, the Surfer's assistant blasts the Panther unconscious. The Surfer is irritated because he wanted the Panther to talk, which he thought he might do if the Panther believed he had the upper hand. Most of the people who ***** about this have only seen a scan of one page, or have poor reading comprehension skills." Mcduffie backtracking to save his ass from a severe backlash after pages of arguing and justifying the armbar isn't a proof. Surfer was in obvious agony on panel. Not to mention stardust didn't ko panther in one panel. I can also post Brevoort saying that panther is actually stronger than surfer, you know. Online comments are worthless.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Still sippin on dat haterade eh?
Lawl.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
One has Surfer pretending to lose and the other has Surfer making an opponent, who (just an issue or 2 ago) was writting as his equal, poop his pants (blowing up a planet just to prove a point).

I know there's a smiley face and maybe this was written in "jest" (you've been doing this a lot recently) but I don't feel where the humor is other than utter wrongness of the statement, man. Surely, Surfer has had worse showings than these?
There was no pretending in BP/Surfer armbar. That's mcduffie talking out of his ass. Surfer was in agony when he was being restrained. Also it would help to read the whole surfer ravenous fight and not selected scans

Originally posted by abhilegend
I re-read annihilation and found something interesting. Ravenous was stalemating surfer pound for pound untill surfer killed his curr even when surfer was in his mythical "annihilation-surfer mode". The planet busting and ravenous shitting his pants came later.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_SS-4_0013.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_SS-4_0014.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_SS-4_0015.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_SS-4_0016.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_SS-4_0017.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_SS-4_0018.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_SS-4_0019.jpg

Interesting indeed.
Ravenous was stalemating surfer as the first time untill surfer killed his curr. A curr-less ravenous pooped his pants worse than surfer against xenith who was just toying with him. He's a emo *****.

There was nothing wrong in whatever I said.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Mcduffie backtracking to save his ass from a severe backlash after pages of arguing and justifying the armbar isn't a proof. Surfer was in obvious agony on panel. Not to mention stardust didn't ko panther in one panel. I can also post Brevoort saying that panther is actually stronger than surfer, you know. Online comments are worthless.

That thread wasn't "pages of arguing" to justify the armbar. It was a Q&A thread to ask McDuffie anything. Only two posts in the thread were dedicated to the armbar.

Hmm, whose interpretation of the scene should we trust more? The actual author himself who wrote the entire scene, or a superman fanboy on the internet? Hard decision for any rational person, I'm sure.

Originally posted by abhilegend
There was no pretending in BP/Surfer armbar. That's mcduffie talking out of his ass. Surfer was in agony when he was being restrained. Also it would help to read the whole surfer ravenous fight and not selected scans


Ravenous was stalemating surfer as the first time untill surfer killed his curr. A curr-less ravenous pooped his pants worse than surfer against xenith who was just toying with him. He's a emo *****.

There was nothing wrong in whatever I said.

He wouldn't be very convincing in pretending to be restrained if he didn't show "agony" in his face now would he? Writer statements are taken here better than crazy ol'Brevoort who had little to do with the writing of said story and who has a rep of talking out of his butt in forums. Even if we were to take your interpretation of the "feats" (something I've learned to take with more than a pinch of salt of late), his new statements SHOULD be considered a soft "retcon" of said scene or at least further clarification of said scene. You can refuse to believe the writer as it serves your purposes, but I'll go ahead and not do that.

I HAVE the Annihilation compilation book with the Ravenous fight in it. A few issues before, Ravenous was shown to be Surfer's equal. In this fight, they scuffle for a few pages and Ravenous couldn't even hurt Surfer with his attacks once Surfer braced and had to send in his currs out of desperation. W/c was dumb as Surfer figured that it was time to stop playing and one shotted them and went on to make Ravenous wet his pants. He didn't steamroll Ravenous, but even with his upgrade, he shouldn't be steamrolling high heralders anyway. I'm rather perplexed how you even see that as a "low showing". Fighting (then beating in short order) a fellow high herald is NOT a low showing. Getting one shot by some random no name Atlantean is.

Like I said, these aren't his lowest showings and posting them to show them as such is just wrong IMO.

Originally posted by vince_slice
That thread wasn't "pages of arguing" to justify the armbar. It was a Q&A thread to ask McDuffie anything. Only two posts in the thread were dedicated to the armbar.

Hmm, whose interpretation of the scene should we trust more? The actual author himself who wrote the entire scene, or a superman fanboy on the internet? Hard decision for any rational person, I'm sure.
You should check out Mcduffid's forum then.

Brevoort is a superman fanboy on internet? Lawl.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
He wouldn't be very convincing in pretending to be restrained if he didn't show "agony" in his face now would he? Writer statements are taken here better than crazy ol'Brevoort who had little to do with the writing of said story and who has a rep of talking out of his butt in forums. Even if we were to take your interpretation of the "feats" (something I've learned to take with more than a pinch of salt of late), his new statements SHOULD be considered a soft "retcon" of said scene or at least further clarification of said scene. You can refuse to believe the writer as it serves your purposes, but I'll go ahead and not do that.

I HAVE the Annihilation compilation book with the Ravenous fight in it. A few issues before, Ravenous was shown to be Surfer's equal. In this fight, they scuffle for a few pages and Ravenous couldn't even hurt Surfer with his attacks once Surfer braced and had to send in his currs out of desperation. W/c was dumb as Surfer figured that it was time to stop playing and one shotted them and went on to make Ravenous wet his pants. He didn't steamroll Ravenous, but even with his upgrade, he shouldn't be steamrolling high heralders anyway. I'm rather perplexed how you even see that as a "low showing". Fighting (then beating in short order) a fellow high herald is NOT a low showing. Getting one shot by some random no name Atlantean is.

Like I said, these aren't his lowest showings and posting them to show them as such is just wrong IMO.
Haha, what? Now surfer was pretending he was in agony? Where did you get that from? FYI, Brevoort was the editor of the book where armbar happened and he personally sanctioned it. I would take brevoort's word over yours any day of the week.

Ravenous was actively stalemating surfer in a handlock just before that scene where surfer tanked his shots. You've to be blind not to see it. Ravenous isn't a high herald with currs let alone without it. Ronan oneshotted him without his currs just like surfer did and firelord fought him to a double ko while weakened with currs. Xenith pushed his shit in without currs. Its not a low showing, it just shows that surfer was at the same level after his "amp". Also good try bringing superman surprised and shot in the air as being oneshotted.

BP restraining surfer is absolutely a low showing. Beating ravenous isn't and I'm not sure why you think I presented it as one.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, what? Now surfer was pretending he was in agony? Where did you get that from? FYI, Brevoort was the editor of the book where armbar happened and he personally sanctioned it. I would take brevoort's word over yours any day of the week.

So you believe that Black Panther is stronger than the Surfer (as you state that Brevoort said that)? Sure, go ahead, pls feel free to post it on the forums as proof.

As for me, I'd take the actual writer of the scene over brevoort or yourself any day. Especially on a scene that doesn't make sense if taken to some literal (and oftentimes self-serving) interpretations and would make sense if taken via the writer's interpretation.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ravenous was actively stalemating surfer in a handlock just before that scene where surfer tanked his shots. You've to be blind not to see it. Ravenous isn't a high herald with currs let alone without it. Ronan oneshotted him without his currs just like surfer did and firelord fought him to a double ko while weakened with currs. Xenith pushed his shit in without currs. Its not a low showing, it just shows that surfer was at the same level after his "amp". Also good try bringing superman surprised and shot in the air as being oneshotted.

Surfer had the advantage the whole time, here is the fight:

-Ravenous grabbed his head and couldn't even pierce Surfer's skin with what looks like piercing energy attack at point blank range.
-Surfer swatted him away and blasted him, making him squeel.
-He blasted Surfer back with an energy backhand, tossing him back.
-Surfer slid down a hill with a grim look on his face,
-Ravenous tossed a multi-beam power blast at him w/c Surfer shrugged off like nothing.
-Ravenous sends his currs, w/c annoyed Surfer, Surfer decided it was enough, one-shotted the currs and then proceeded to blow up the planet just to show off.

This ended up with Ravenous who was always written as being confident (as per previous issues) about how he compared to Surfer being completely dumbfounded by what he saw and running home with his tail between his legs.

Thanos lasted against Odin longer than Ravenous lasted against Surfer. Does this "actively stalemating" have any bearings on how effective he was against said character? Not really. In the end, the results show the true intention of the writing, w/c was to show the Surfer casually destroying someone and striking fear in someone who was (just issues before) written to be his peer the minute he felt like it.

I mention the Atlantean incident because people can go into Superman threads and misrepresent the showing to troll other posters just as you're going in to troll ppl via misrepresent Surfer showings as of late (I mean, seriously, why such hate?). You're one of the more knowledgeable posters in this forum but this recent behavior really puts a damper in your credibility.

Originally posted by abhilegend
BP restraining surfer is absolutely a low showing. Beating ravenous isn't and I'm not sure why you think I presented it as one.

You cleverly write them side by side, with "not to mention" written with the sentence containing "lowest showings". You could simply deny the fact via your literal sentencing structure but your intention of downplaying Surfer post-Annihilation can be seen clear as day due to your recent behavior.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
So you believe that Black Panther is stronger than the Surfer (as you state that Brevoort said that)? No. Both of these comments are worthless. There was no indication of surfer pretending in the whole comic. You can repeat it as much as you want, wouldn't make it true. That's why it is a low showing. Go ahead and pretend its not if that makes you feel better.



You need glasses if you think that's the complete fight.

Ravenous was only on par with surfer when his currs were alive in both fight. As soon as the curr died, he became a ***** of surfer. This is actually laughable, read annihilation again.

Completely irrelevant comparison. facepalm
Don't tell me you're serious here.
After destroying his power source without which ronan and xenith make ravenous their ***** worse than surfer.

Thanks for the pep talk.



Not really. You can think whatever you want though. This isn't the place for it though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No. Both of these comments are worthless. There was no indication of surfer pretending in the whole comic. You can repeat it as much as you want, wouldn't make it true. That's why it is a low showing. Go ahead and pretend its not if that makes you feel better.

I disagree. One was an obvious trolling comment or one made with utter ignorance. Another was by the very writer of the comic explaining his work (making it make more sense in the process). You don't get to lump them together the same way you don't lump PIS showings with reasonable ones.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You need glasses if you think that's the complete fight.

That is the fight you posted. Of course there are parts of the fight not shown (such as what happened prior). But I described it as it happens. Of course, I'm sure YOU have your OWN step-by-step version of how it happened in your mind. Please post it and we can just let the others here judge for themselves w/c version they want to believe?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ravenous was only on par with surfer when his currs were alive in both fight. As soon as the curr died, he became a ***** of surfer. This is actually laughable, read annihilation again.

He wasn't "on par" in this fight. Ravenous had one good shot in and when Surfer braced himself near the end, he tanked Ravenous' best shot like nothing. In total, there was a short back and forth and Surfer ended it when he wanted to. Of course, weakness exploitation was used, but that only proves that this fight proves nothing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Completely irrelevant comparison. facepalm
Don't tell me you're serious here.


Actually, this comparison was simply to indicate that "stalemating" someone doesn't really prove anything about their formidability in comparison to each other and that the "stalemating" argument is really silly (and gets kinda misused quite a bit). What matters is how the fight got ended or how the fight was portrayed. Ravenous vs Surfer showed that at no time was Surfer ever in danger or pushed to the limit and thus the limits of his "amp" (if such existed) was never tested.

Originally posted by abhilegend
After destroying his power source without which ronan and xenith make ravenous their ***** worse than surfer.

Irrrelevant. My point was Surfer's battle with Ravenous does not prove that presence nor absence of an amp as it did not (at any time in the fight) really push the Surfer to his limit.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Thanks for the pep talk.

I normally am cool with how you work things, man. I'm quite the fan of how you oftentimes introduce (what others perceive as) off-the-wall logic and use research and knowledge of characters to beat others into silence. Always found that cool.

Your recent trend of misrepresentation (or at the very least misinterpretation) of "feats" isn't the way to go, tho.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not really. You can think whatever you want though. This isn't the place for it though.

I agree. Maybe we should move this to PMs?

Tom Brevoort claimed that Mcduffie "believed" that the physics of that feat by Panther were perfectly in line with real-life logic.

Obviously Brevoort's outright trollish comments regarding what Mcduffie "believed" about that showing hold more weight than Mcduffie's actual beliefs on the matter.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I disagree. One was an obvious trolling comment or one made with utter ignorance. Another was by the very writer of the comic explaining his work (making it make more sense in the process). You don't get to lump them together the same way you don't lump PIS showings with reasonable ones. Both of these are against forum rules.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Debating Format

Rules/Standard Fight Settings
In most cases, the poster who originally set up the versus fight determines the conditions of the fight itself (ex. If a character like Superman is in a thread, it'll be assumed that it's the current version unless mentioned otherwise by the thread starter, the same goes with Thanos without the IG, and so on). However, in the cases where the original poster did not set down any constraints or conditions for the fight, then the match would default to the standard rules below.

The Battle
Due to some confusion, I will highlight this now. Unless otherwise specified in the opening post, the matches are one fight. The use of a character winning 7/10 is just to highlight a percentage or odds. There has never been anything in the rules which states there are 10 separate fights.

Prep time
Neither side receives any notable prep time before the starting bell unless the thread starter specifies it. Neither side may take any offensive or defensive actions before the starting bell. Planning is allowed and powers that are automatic or 'always on' can be up, but actions such as setting up forcefields, taking flight, or consciously activating powers is not. For example, Batman cannot shove together an 'anti-Avengers ray' before the fight.

Prep Addendum
Prep time of 10 minutes = 10 minutes relative to the character. So time manipulations wouldn't count for more time. Say Strange went back in time 2 years before the battle is scheduled to start. His 10 minutes would still be running, so he can't just arbitrarily give himself infinite prep time.

In other words, make prep relative to the character, not to their manipulations of time.


Standard Equipment
Each side starts out with the equipment that they normally and have been shown to consistently carry on them. For example, Daredevil would have his billy-club, but Reed Richards would not have the Ultimate Nullifier.
In a scenario fight, the contestants in whose city/reality the fight takes place are allowed access to any material resources they usually have there or of any team they're active members of, as long as they can reasonably get to them. For example, in a scenario set in the DCU, Green Lantern would have access to equipment in the JLA Watchtower, but not the Titans headquarters.
Beta Ray Bill would not have Scuttlebutt and Batman would not have the Batmobile, unless otherwise noted in the open post.

Basic Knowledge
Each side receives basic knowledge of the other. A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows. For example, that Superman has a weakness to Kryptonite is general knowledge, but that he's Clark Kent is not.


Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.

No outside help
Unless specified otherwise, no contestant may call for outside assistance, even in scenario matches. For example, Captain America cannot call in the Avengers during a fight with Batman.

Leaving the field
Combatants who leave the field of combat on purpose forfeit the match. If they are removed from the arena against their will (being punched, thrown, teleported, etc.) and can make it back under their own power in a reasonable amount of time, then they are still in the fight. Obviously, if a combatant leaves the field and cannot return under their own power, then they have lost.

No Bias Claims
"Batman can beat Thor because he's cooler!" That's an example of how not to debate. We would like to see the rationale behind any claims that one character can beat the other rather than a claim based on popularity and subjective bias.
Also, we insist that all claims be backed up by evidence from canon sources. If you claim that Spiderman is stronger than Superman, then you have to prove it.

No Non-canon Sources
Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

A canon source is one that is regarded as being 'in continuity'. In the example of Star Trek; instances from the series and movies can be used, but books are definitely out. Comic book crossovers are usually unusable as they ignore common sense most of the time (DC vs. Marvel is certainly unusable in some cases in our debates!).

This includes JLA/Avengers. Canon or not, people just aren't going to agree on it in most cases. Besides, there should be plenty of other comics with which to make your point.

Comics released strictly online or on web sites will not be considered proof in the Comic Book Versus Forum.

An obscure interview given by someone involved in a story arc is not proof to refute feats. Neither is a random post by a supposed writer on a message board, blogs, tweets, etc. There have been too many of these so called interviews which go against what's shown on panel. Especially when there is no dialogue to refute what's happening on panel. Most writers are clear with the intentions of the plot and story arc.

This principle extends to characters with multiple versions, alternate timelines, etc. Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed.

No Mentioning Events of PIS
Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics. Examples of PIS include Flash stories lasting longer than three panels, or Toy Man as a threat to Superman.

Character Induced Stupidity, or CIS, on the other hand, refers to any natural mental limitations that characters impose upon themselves and reduce their ability to use their own skills and powers effectively. Unlike PIS, CIS does not occur because the plot requires it, but because the character is genuinely that dumb. Examples of the CIS-afflicted include characters such as Rhino or Jar Jar Binks. Events of CIS are not exempt from debates.

Concerning Superspeed
It's said that the speed of thought is about 30 m/s.
Note that it's meters per second, not miles
Reference:http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DavidParizh.shtml
(Now this isn't in stone, if you feel you know something that you believe is better, then go with it).

Amendment:

Concerning the Battlefield
Unless otherwise stated by the thread originator, the standard distance between combatants will be .5 kilometers in line of sight at the onset of battle, and there will be an implied "buzz" to signify the onset of battle. It will be assumed combatants are primed to go at the gun.

Also, all characters, regardless of where the fight takes place, or what universe/medium they are native to, will have full access to their abilities at optimum efficiency as they are depicted in their native universes. It will be assumed that each character fights as they are normally presented regardless of battle locale. This means that, for example, Flash will in fact have SpeedForce abilities if the battle took place in Marvel Manhattan. Battles will always take place on an assumed equal playing field.


Concerning Threads
There have been too many thread starters trying to change stipulations once the thread has advanced. This isn't allowed.

There are two things which can happen:
1) If the thread hasn't gone too far, past the first 2-3 pages, then PM a mod to edit the opening post to make the desired changes.

2) The original thread can be closed and a new thread made.

This is to avoid confusion and arguing in a thread. People will read the opening post more than they'll search through a 10 page thread to see where stipulations were changed.

Also, if you make a thread which needs edited due to spelling, grammar, etc then PM a mod for the correction.

Thank you and enjoy.



I certainly could but as I said, its not the place to do it.



I respect your opinion but agree to disagree.



Thanks for the vote of support.

I don't misrepresent feats. Let's just leave it at that.



Maybe we would discuss it in a future thread.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Tom Brevoort claimed that Mcduffie "believed" that the physics of that feat by Panther were perfectly in line with real-life logic.

Obviously Brevoort's outright trollish comments regarding what Mcduffie "believed" about that showing hold more weight than Mcduffie's actual beliefs on the matter.
Accepting one online comment because it supports you while refusing other because it doesn't is downright laughable.

With respect, I'll acquiesce to the fact that this might need to be discussed elsewhere.

I'll simply reply to one thing and leave it at that.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Both of these are against forum rules.


Firstly, can you point out where we're not allowed to use writer's/editor's statements as a reference? I'm sure it's there (or at least SHOULD BE) but reading thru your quoted part of the rules, I can't find it.

Secondly, while I agree that using a writer's/editor's statements should NOT overrule clear on-panel "feats". But in any instance where the "feat" itself lends a high level of ambiguity, makes little sense if taken literally or has varied interpretations that few can agree with, then having a person of direct authority on the subject (such as the writer himself) could (or at least should) be used to break the logical stalemate.

huh? ss let the armbar happen. he verifies it in the following page where he says he wants to hear what bp had to say. here is mcduffie admitting as much:

Read the scene again and this time pay attention. The Surfer allowed the Panther to "restrain" him in the hope of finding out what the FF was up to. A panel later, the Surfer's assistant blasts the Panther unconscious. The Surfer is irritated because he wanted the Panther to talk, which he thought he might do if the Panther believed he had the upper hand. Most of the people who ***** about this have only seen a scan of one page, or have poor reading comprehension skills.


http://dwaynemcduffie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10&sid=c0e413d1c17b98365835088167195d0f&start=1830

and it's not just writer-speak as i said--it's verified on the second page.

http://imageshack.us/f/690/1797720scan0017.jpg/

clearly ss saw them all as friends and just as clearly he could have ended bp anytime he wished.

facepalm/ @ the blatant ( but typical)surfer trolling ( in a thread he isnot even in) by the forums resident butthurt sycophant...

Anyhow, Per writer clarification SS let the hammerlock happen. The writers explanation is also supported on panel in the subsequent page as Leo shows. That should really be the end of it.

Lawl @failing to put a smilie.