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List as many characters as you can that can beat Superman for a majority.


High Herald and under.

No.

Thor
Quasar
For Majority

Surfer
Atrocitus
Apoc
Loki
Can pull 3-4 wins

sentry surfer thor magneto quasar kyle gl wwh classic strange all destroy him

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
sentry surfer thor magneto quasar kyle gl wwh classic strange all destroy him

You're a brave man.

Prepare yourself. A storm is coming.

Winter...?

More like the blazing summer sun of Rao itself.

Originally posted by Don Corleone
List as many characters as you can that can beat Superman for a majority.


High Herald and under.




Silver Surfer

Wonder Woman

Magneto




Wishing Well Red She-Hulk

Thor (with battlefield removal as an option)

World Breaker Hulk (Heart of the Monster edition if WBH is too high)

Originally posted by Don Corleone
List as many characters as you can that can beat Superman for a majority.


High Herald and under.

Done.


See what I did there?

Originally posted by Cogito
Done.


See what I did there?


Made the 5 names you put down too small to read?

Originally posted by Cogito
Done.


See what I did there?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You're a brave man.

Prepare yourself. A storm is coming.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You're a brave man.

Prepare yourself. A storm is coming.

2 things.... 1) chris jericho is in my top 3 fav pro wrestlers of all time so i like u... 2) i know its brave its stretching on a couple but i def think they can all take a majority

The hard part is realizing that Kal is almost the class of HH. If anyone beats him for a majority, they're by default flirting with the lower end of Trans.

Surfer belongs on the list, also almost by default according to KMC tiers (HH traditionally, literally, used Surfer as its upper limit). I want to say Thor, but The Dials disagree. I know Hulk-backers are insatiable, but is there a credible reason Superman couldn't lobotomize him from space? There's a few other matchup-specific ones that might pull this off, but none that I really consider above the boyscout overall.

Silver ****ing Surfer

Come at me House of EL

arm fall off boy?
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/shogunofharlem1/url-4_zpseb0d0549.jpg

Chris Jericho is amazing, and so are the shield. They are my favorites right now along with Daniel Brian, kofi, and a promising look goes to Curtis axel.

Originally posted by HueyFreeman
arm fall off boy?
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/shogunofharlem1/url-4_zpseb0d0549.jpg I am astounded!

Originally posted by Odekahn
Chris Jericho is amazing, and so are the shield. They are my favorites right now along with Daniel Brian, kofi, and a promising look goes to Curtis axel.

i have been watching daniel bryan back before the WWE hes incredible and anyone who is a paul hayman guy is gonna b good....

btw sentry beats superman where is this scary superman fan at

Axel isn't a Paul E. Dangerous guy, they are just throwing that term around Joe Henning is a friend of the Rock, so yeah he will be the next Sheamus

umm yes he is paul hayman introduced him last week

Originally posted by Digi
I know Hulk-backers are insatiable, but is there a credible reason Superman couldn't lobotomize him from space? The fact that he can heal?

yeah, even his durability can likely tank the heat

Originally posted by Digi
I know Hulk-backers are insatiable, but is there a credible reason Superman couldn't lobotomize him from space?

The 12 years of medical school Superman doesn't have you son of a *****!

Original Poster, clarify something for me:

When you say "beat for a majority" do you mean the likelihood of winning a first time encounter between these 2 is greater than 50% for Superman's opponent

or

that the opponent is ALWAYS more likely to beat Superman than not, regardless of his learning curve?


For instance, I would expect Rogue of the X-Men to beat Superman in a random first time encounter more likely than not. For if Superman has no prior experience with her, he won't know that Rogue can become stronger than he is with first contact and choose to debilitate him with the same touch. You'd expect her to have something like an 80% likelihood of taking him down if they're just randomly thrown together and randomly decide to fight FOR that first encounter.

On the other hand, AFTER losing to her that way the first time, Superman would know direct skin-to-skin contact should be avoided with her at all costs, do everything in his power to prevent a close quarters physical engagement with her, and more than likely succeed.

Contrast to, say, the Amazo of Dwayne McDuffie's Justice League of America #24. Superman lost to Amazo in their first fight. He lost in their second.
You get the impression he'd lose in a third, fourth, or fifth. That character just had Superman's number. Nothing you can lightly do to defeat Amazo no matter HOW much learn about the guy or how much fight experience you gain.

--------------------------------------------------

Anyway, when you say "beat for a majority" are you thinking

"likelihood of winning an initial, uninformed FIRST encounter is high"

or

"likely to beat Superman no matter HOW many times they fight"?




Respond, please.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Axel isn't a Paul E. Dangerous guy, they are just throwing that term around Joe Henning is a friend of the Rock, so yeah he will be the next Sheamus

Putting him and heyman together is like Mr Perfect and Bobby Henan reborn.

I really hope they make a stable with heymans guys. Could you see punk, Brock, and axel vs the shield? Now THAT would be amazing.

Originally posted by Digi
I know Hulk-backers are insatiable, but is there a credible reason Superman couldn't lobotomize him from space?

The same reason that prevents Thor from ripping the sky open on Hulk and reducing him to ash. A tender manly love.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The 12 years of medical school Superman doesn't have you son of a *****! he did cripple manchester black that way

Originally posted by Odekahn
Putting him and heyman together is like Mr Perfect and Bobby Henan reborn.

I really hope they make a stable with heymans guys. Could you see punk, Brock, and axel vs the shield? Now THAT would be amazing.

id love it that'd b some cool stuff i like anything shield does the diambrose is from my home town in amelia ohio which is really cool actual name john good so that was really neat to find out

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
2 things.... 1) chris jericho is in my top 3 fav pro wrestlers of all time so i like u... 2) i know its brave its stretching on a couple but i def think they can all take a majority

Y2J is the Ayatollah of Rock n' Rollah, so yes, he should be in everyone's top list.

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
id love it that'd b some cool stuff i like anything shield does the diambrose is from my home town in amelia ohio which is really cool actual name john good so that was really neat to find out

Dean is my favorite. His move just looks brutal and he's a fantastic worker with an original style. I feel like I'm looking into the future, this guy is going to be amazing. He just has "IT"

The Shield is also pretty awesome. Dean's the one who's most likely to go out and make it big on his own. But Seth Rollins's totally has the athletic ability to do the same.

Rollins is actually from a small city that's literally ten minutes away from my own. I actually went to a lot of the shows he competed in at local midwest wrestling shows before he moved on to Ring of Honor and then WWE.

thats pretty cool i was blown away to find that out about him they are all really good dean is def going to have a very good career i know they will run the angle where shield turns on him hes already doing his own thing with the us championship that whole group will do well dont b surprised at mania in about 2 or 3 yrs ambrose being in the spot light

Surfer
Starhawk
Thor
Captain Marvel
Classic Strange
Fate
Giselle Villard
maybe Vulcan

really, any high end energy manip/magic character should conceivably be able to do it, provided they have some answer to Supe's speed/power

Doom
Thor
Beta Ray Bill
Mr Majestic
Apocalypse
Prof X
Spawn
Zatanna

There's not enough room in this post to list all of them tbh. I'll just list a tiny amount of people not often thought of to be absolute Superman killers.

No.

- Just about any herald-level from the Sigilverse universe.
- Cassandra Nova
- Zoom
- Barry Allen
- DCNU Sinestro
- Nate Grey
- Zatanna
- Manchester Black (he's immune to brain-lobotomy now)
- Talisman
- Shaman

Kurse, hulk, hyperion, silver surfer, Doom, Thor, beta ray bill, starhawk, gladiator, supreme, count nafaria,juggernaut, black adam, captain marvel, wonder woman, loki, morg. etc

Originally posted by JBL
Kurse, hulk, hyperion, silver surfer, Doom, Thor, beta ray bill, starhawk, gladiator, supreme, count nafaria,juggernaut, black adam, captain marvel, wonder woman, loki, morg. etc
The hate is strong in you.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The hate is strong in you. If you want my number, stalking me is not the way to get it. Just ask.

Originally posted by JBL
Kurse, hulk, hyperion, silver surfer, Doom, Thor, beta ray bill, starhawk, gladiator, supreme, count nafaria,juggernaut, black adam, captain marvel, wonder woman, loki, morg. etc

How's Kurse, Hulk and Juggernaut gonna touch Superman?

Originally posted by JBL
Kurse, hulk, hyperion, silver surfer, Doom, Thor, beta ray bill, starhawk, gladiator, supreme, count nafaria,juggernaut, black adam, captain marvel, wonder woman, loki, morg. etc


everyone listed here could mabey pull a win or 2 off, however the only ones able to consistently pull off at least a win 50% of the time or more are thor and surfer.

By moving their arms in a punching motion.

Dr Fate, Dr Strange, Deadman ( takes over his body and beats him to a bloody pulp with his own fists), Adam Warlock ( or really any reasonable magic user),Silver Surfer, Captain Atom, Dr Light ( both versions), The Ray , Photon( last few by draining him completely of YK radiation), Thor ( if he acts out of character and goes straight to mjilnor), Quasar, Mar-vell, Firestorm, molecule man, thats just for a start

Originally posted by beatboks
Dr Fate, Dr Strange, Deadman ( takes over his body and beats him to a bloody pulp with his own fists), Adam Warlock ( or really any reasonable magic user),Silver Surfer, Captain Atom, Dr Light ( both versions), The Ray , Photon( last few by draining him completely of YK radiation), Thor ( if he acts out of character and goes straight to mjilnor), Quasar, Mar-vell, Firestorm, molecule man, thats just for a start

Do you know anything about superman? Anything? I mean Mar-vell? Warlock? Dr. Light? You gotta be kidding me.

Superman has no specific invulnerability to magic. contrary to some saying heis weak to it ( which he isn't ) he is just as vulnerable as anyone else. Considering Adam Warlock can defeat Mephisto in his own realm I failto see what Kal is going to do when he has no real defense against magic. Anyone who can sufficiently manipulate light energy can drain Kal of all te energy in his cells.

If Priest got to continue writing The Ray, which was like hands down the 3rd best 90s DC comic after Animal Man and Starman, then he would probably have beat Superman.

That did not happen however, and he has become a notoriously underutilized jobber. Just like most of DC's interesting characters

LOL@WW pulling a majority over Superman

Originally posted by beatboks
Superman has no specific invulnerability to magic. contrary to some saying heis weak to it ( which he isn't ) he is just as vulnerable as anyone else. Considering Adam Warlock can defeat Mephisto in his own realm I failto see what Kal is going to do when he has no real defense against magic. Anyone who can sufficiently manipulate light energy can drain Kal of all te energy in his cells.
That was with soul gem and mephisto is a notorious jobber. Thor and surfer have beaten him too. Superman wouldn't be standing still and try to talk with warlock. Warlock doesn't have the durability to contend with superman.Originally posted by curryman
If Priest got to continue writing The Ray, which was like hands down the 3rd best 90s DC comic after Animal Man and Starman, then he would probably have beat Superman.

That did not happen however, and he has become a notoriously underutilized jobber. Just like most of DC's interesting characters
In Ray annual 1, superman was shown as vastly superior to ray.

Originally posted by abhilegend

In Ray annual 1, superman was shown as vastly superior to ray.
Yes.

Point being?

Originally posted by curryman
How's Kurse, Hulk and Juggernaut gonna touch Superman?
Same way everyone else does

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Same way everyone else does



Come on bro.

Hulk at least has some history of jumping at people, but Juggernaut seems unlikely. Not to mention the fact that Juggernaut's pretty much been a joke compared to his former self the last 9 years or so...

Second Superman realizes that Kurse's too strong for him, the elf isn't going to get close to him.

Originally posted by curryman
Yes.

Point being?
He wouldn't beat superman.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He wouldn't beat superman.
Sure he would've.

Just needed 15 years of Priest.

Originally posted by curryman
Come on bro.

Hulk at least has some history of jumping at people, but Juggernaut seems unlikely. Not to mention the fact that Juggernaut's pretty much been a joke compared to his former self the last 9 years or so...

Second Superman realizes that Kurse's too strong for him, the elf isn't going to get close to him.
Lol, I agree I already posted my opinion on who has a chance

Kurse is the only guy on his list i'd say could go 2/10 imho

Originally posted by curryman
Sure he would've.

Just needed 15 years of Priest.
Nope.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope.
Yes.

@abhilegend your last statement clears it up for me. OP says who "can" not who " would" beat superman for a majority. most of those I listed ( except Fate, Strange and at a stretch Surfer) wouldn't beat superman, but written properly all certainly "can" take the majority

Originally posted by abhilegend

In Ray annual 1, superman was shown as vastly superior to ray. in JLA Ray a couple of years later and in JLTF Ray was shown to be "vastly" superior to MMH who Superman has referred to as his equal or very close too on dozens of occasions. one instance against many and the many are more recent. So what.

Superman can say MMH is his equal all he wants.

We all know that is not true. Unfortunately for Jonn he is just too big a jobber.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Superman can say MMH is his equal all he wants.

We all know that is not true. Unfortunately for Jonn he is just too big a jobber.

Based on most forums I've seen I'd say the opposite is true. When exactly has Jonn' "jobbed"???

When has he not?

Most forums will simply discuss powersets IMO. Powerset wise MMH is just broken beyond belief.

I see them as Superman being physically more powerful and Jonn being more versatile.

Honestly, I don't think J'onn has that great of a powerset...

A lot of people can beat him for a majority.

Originally posted by curryman
Honestly, I don't think J'onn has that great of a powerset...

Vast Super human strength, super speed, invulnerability, martian vision, martian senses, intangibility, high level telepathy and complete control over his molecular structure. I'm probably missing a few.

How is that not great? Only person who can compete is Surfer and that is simply because of how big a plot device the power cosmic is.

Originally posted by zeel
everyone listed here could mabey pull a win or 2 off, however the only ones able to consistently pull off at least a win 50% of the time or more are thor and surfer. They would all get 9/10. Superman has to go toe to toe with them, excuses like him flying away from them or not being able to be hit is just that, an excuse to give him the win, let him engage the slower ones and watch him get destroyed, the faster ones will have no problem whatsoever tagging and wrecking him, some will beat him to death, some will blast him to death and a few will blast and beat him to death. Speed has never gotten in the writers way, so it wont get in the way here.

Classy.

Originally posted by curryman
How's Kurse, Hulk and Juggernaut gonna touch Superman? The same way grundy, hercules and wonderman hit him.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Vast Super human strength, super speed, invulnerability, martian vision, martian senses, intangibility, high level telepathy and complete control over his molecular structure. I'm probably missing a few.

How is that not great? Only person who can compete is Surfer and that is simply because of how big a plot device the power cosmic is.

Only person who can compete?

You forget every other character in the herald category besides the bricks.

Originally posted by JBL
The same way grundy, hercules and wonderman hit him.

Someone's gonna bring him down for them? I see.

Shouldn't waste your time.Originally posted by curryman
Only person who can compete?

You forget every other character in the herald category besides the bricks.

no u.

But yes I was glorifying Jonn too much. His powerset is still really solid. Physicality, intangibility and telepathy to boot is a deadly combo. If only he always fought/operated at full capacity/potential. He is been getting some love lately.

Originally posted by curryman
Someone's gonna bring him down for them? I see. So if a character that cannot fly beats a character that can fly, its BS huh? Kurse cannot fly yet he engaged thor and bill. So has hulk. I get it now.

Hes debating in a CIS free environment. Making his character fight in a fashion comics doesn't display them as fighting like. His characters are make believe characters.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
But yes I was glorifying Jonn too much. His powerset is still really solid. Physicality, intangibility and telepathy to boot is a deadly combo. If only he always fought/operated at full capacity/potential. He is been getting some love lately.

I also think it's a really powerful combination, but it's his degree of bodily malleability, intangibility and telepathy that makes him strong.

I'm just debating the idea that his powerset is that special. Once you get into comics to the degree that most people around board do, then it's not that hard to find a hundred other people with more powers at their disposal

Originally posted by curryman
I also think it's a really powerful combination, but it's his degree of bodily malleability, intangibility and telepathy that makes him strong.

I'm just debating the idea that his powerset is that special. Once you get into comics to the degree that most people around board do, then it's not that hard to find a hundred other people with more powers at their disposal And they hardly ever use these powers.

At least Jonn uses most of his powers.

Originally posted by carver9
Hes debating in a CIS free environment. Making his character fight in a fashion comics doesn't display them as fighting like. His characters are make believe characters. I see. Its strange that when it comes to superman, hes the only flying speedster that cannot be hit when it suits the purpose of his protective fans. All other flying speedsters get hit by ground based characters, yet superman is special in their eyes and it seems to offend if he is said to lose or able to be hit.

Curious...when did this happen?

Besides Abhi's typical BS that is.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Curious...when did this happen?

Besides Abhi's typical BS that is.
I've never argued that superman can't be hit. JBL is just a cbr hater.

Fair enough.

I'm just curious about the whole "they will argue Superman won't get hit while other flying speedsters will" I've been here long enough and I haven't seen anything like that. Usually people who believe that characters with vast speed advantages over others will prevail, they stand behind that. No matter if its Hulk vs WW or Captain Marvel vs Thor. Superman's case is simply stronger because he has substantially more showings using his speed in combat, efficient ways, and traveling than most other non-speedster centric characters.

Originally posted by beatboks
@abhilegend your last statement clears it up for me. OP says who "can" not who " would" beat superman for a majority. most of those I listed ( except Fate, Strange and at a stretch Surfer) wouldn't beat superman, but written properly all certainly "can" take the majority
What does "written properly" actually means?Originally posted by beatboks
in JLA Ray a couple of years later and in JLTF Ray was shown to be "vastly" superior to MMH who Superman has referred to as his equal or very close too on dozens of occasions. one instance against many and the many are more recent. So what.
I only recall a single instance of Ray being called superior to manhunter. I can post at least a dozen scans of superman being vastly superior to J'onn in combat and not just lip-service.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What does "written properly" actually means?


Not properly in the sense it might imply as "true to the character" but as in the proper and FULL use of their abilities unfettered.

If they were written to take full advantage of their powerset's without their normal character restraints. I find it interesting that Arthur Light can manipulate the light constructs of Green Lanterns and has also manipulated the light projections of the Ray ( who based on showings has vastly more light power and control ) yet it's never dawned on him to drain the sunlight stored in Superman's cells ( which is pretty common knowledge after all). Silver Surfer like wise is capable of that but in character wouldn't act that way. Hence why he "wouldn't" but "could" IMO win the majority. The full "potential" power of Mar-Vell was shown by his son Genis which is well above "Herald" level power, but Walter is never likely to use it to that level.

As I said I'm only answering the question of who can.



there was the JLA story where the dimensional entity who had made MMH Bloodwynde needed the JLA's "most powerful member " (Ray) to free it. there were a few more in JLTF. Once where Vandal Savage refers to his power output as greater than MMH and others. There was also the fact that one of Ray's energy constructs with only a portion of his power ( Black Masque) and a personality from Ray's programming soloed most of the JLTF including MMH.

Originally posted by beatboks


I find it interesting that Arthur Light can manipulate the light constructs of Green Lanterns and has also manipulated the light projections of the Ray yet it's never dawned on him to drain the sunlight stored in Superman's cells ...


Are you sure he hasn't? Unfortunately, I don't have the magazine this is taken from, presumably Justice League of America, during the run of Dwayne McDuffie, circa 2008 or thereabouts, but Light sure does DROP Clark easy enough ...

Originally posted by beatboks
Not properly in the sense it might imply as "true to the character" but as in the proper and FULL use of their abilities unfettered. What about superman using all of his abilities?

Superman has control of his energies and its quite difficult for an energy manipulator to manipulate his energies. In fact in two instances, superman resisted his energies drained where Ray was drained of all his powers. Genis=/=Mar-vell.

Ok.



I know of this instance. Scans of these two instances if you can post them please.

Originally posted by Mindset
The fact that he can heal?

I'm not forgetting obvious powers like healing factor. But if we agree that Kal's heat vision could tear through Hulk and damage him for even fractions of a second, I don't think it's unreasonable to think he can use it to reduce Hulk to ash. It's often considered Superman's most powerful attack. I don't think the idea is too outlandish.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The 12 years of medical school Superman doesn't have you son of a *****!

He's used his heat vision with that level of precision.

Originally posted by Digi
I'm not forgetting obvious powers like healing factor. But if we agree that Kal's heat vision could tear through Hulk and damage him for even fractions of a second, I don't think it's unreasonable to think he can use it to reduce Hulk to ash. It's often considered Superman's most powerful attack. I don't think the idea is too outlandish.



He's used his heat vision with that level of precision. That's like saying if Superman can damage Hulk with punches he should be able to punch him into paste.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Scans of these two instances if you can post them please.

I had a hunt last night for the one where Black Masque "soloed" the JLTF. Looks like I was wrong on that one. The one I was thinking of was actually an issue after Black Masque's three issues of appearing in JLTF and was a character called Gamora who looks so damn much like Black masque (except for slight changes in coloring and about three minor modifications to the helmet). Unless the JLTF fought him in the Ray series (which wasn't the way I remembered it) I've got that one wrong. Trying to find my Ray comics in which Vandal played a big part ( trying to manipulate Ray to serve him and making him an employee of his company) to find the other reference now. So far only found one where Savage does a deal with Neron to keep Ray for himself and for Neron to leave him alone as he want's the use of his power ( of course Neron didn't stick to that deal).

Sorry my bad, old man's memory playing tricks

Can=/=will

Originally posted by beatboks
I had a hunt last night for the one where Black Masque "soloed" the JLTF. Looks like I was wrong on that one. The one I was thinking of was actually an issue after Black Masque's three issues of appearing in JLTF and was a character called Gamora who looks so damn much like Black masque (except for slight changes in coloring and about three minor modifications to the helmet). Unless the JLTF fought him in the Ray series (which wasn't the way I remembered it) I've got that one wrong. Trying to find my Ray comics in which Vandal played a big part ( trying to manipulate Ray to serve him and making him an employee of his company) to find the other reference now. So far only found one where Savage does a deal with Neron to keep Ray for himself and for Neron to leave him alone as he want's the use of his power ( of course Neron didn't stick to that deal).

Sorry my bad, old man's memory playing tricks
No problem man.

Originally posted by Don Corleone
List as many characters as you can that can beat Superman for a majority.


High Herald and under.

Surfer probably can (it's iffy depending on how you view Surfer fighting vs. how he typical fights in comics)
There are others but I'm not sure if they are herald level or higher.

For example, a serious flash can beat Superman.

Originally posted by Mindset
That's like saying if Superman can damage Hulk with punches he should be able to punch him into paste.

Not sure I like the comparison, but ok. Point is, he can do that from a safe distance and legitimately hurt Hulk. Maybe you don't think it would kill Hulk. But if he can pierce the skin and bone, what's stopping him from frying his brain?

I think if Superman went full out with his vision, it would tear a hole right through the Hulk. Extrapolate that to obvious conclusions and you have a win in which not a single punch is thrown.

srug

Or, let's dial it back, let's say it injures the Hulk, damages him, but doesn't kill him. Kal can fry him for a couple hours, weaken him the hell down, the go in for a brawl (or, more likely, take the brawl to an advantageous location like space or the sun). I just don't see a reasonably intelligent Superman (in a forum-style fight) ever being touched significantly, even by a beast like WWH.

did it to himself already and survived. he get's encased in a nuclear bomb smothering container right after, but when he breaks out he's healed

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/head1.jpg http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/head2.jpg

Originally posted by Digi
Not sure I like the comparison, but ok. Point is, he can do that from a safe distance and legitimately hurt Hulk. Maybe you don't think it would kill Hulk. But if he can pierce the skin and bone, what's stopping him from frying his brain?

I think if Superman went full out with his vision, it would tear a hole right through the Hulk. Extrapolate that to obvious conclusions and you have a win in which not a single punch is thrown.

srug

Or, let's dial it back, let's say it injures the Hulk, damages him, but doesn't kill him. Kal can fry him for a couple hours, weaken him the hell down, the go in for a brawl (or, more likely, take the brawl to an advantageous location like space or the sun). I just don't see a reasonably intelligent Superman (in a forum-style fight) ever being touched significantly, even by a beast like WWH.
Hulk will continually heal from the damage and Supes will never be able to permanently put Hulk down.

Yeah he will.

sure, but not that way. his best bet is a regular KO

Agreed. Heat vision is still very helpful though.

.