Flash (Barry) Vs Captain Marvel (Billy)

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Golgo13
Pre-Flashpoint for each character.
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/BA_zps69b35823.jpg

vs

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/BI_zps369fa5c7.jpg

pym-ftw
Billy

Golgo13
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Billy

How could Billy contend in the speed department?

JakeTheBank
Depends on if this is Barry as we see him most of the times in comics or Speed Force extrapolation forum god mode Barry.

pym-ftw
thumb up
Pretty much

Golgo13
Barry has the Speed Force, yes. So, how well does Billy do? Reasoning please.

pym-ftw
Read Jakes post again

Golgo13
Just give some reasoning please.

pym-ftw
superior stats except speed (mostly durability) are the reason I give him an edge.

Golgo13
Yes, Billy has the edge in strength and durability, but it's not like Flash's haven't beaten beings with superior stats such as those. Jay (slower speedster on average) managed to do well against Black Adam and gave him fits. Same as Wally with Mongul.

pym-ftw
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Depends on if this is Barry as we see him most of the times in comics or Speed Force extrapolation forum god mode Barry.

This

His average is probably spliting with Diana, his cis makes him not as effective as he COULD be but it is what it is.

Golgo13
I'm thinking Speed Force will give Adam fits.

pym-ftw
probably, Billy will have hell trying to get a hand on Flash

Golgo13
Speed steal could work. Same with a speed force dump or just enough hits could eventually put him down.

beatboks
Barry has never done a speed steal so why attribute that as his ability?
Billy was once asked by Wally if he had a connection to the speed force after they encountered. Clearly any speed advantage Barry may have isn't much or virtually insignificant since Wally has the better feats.
I fail to see how Barry is going to win when we've never seen him do anything that would put him anywhere near that capability. If it was Wally there would be reason for discussion on Flash's behalf. Since it's not it's a clear win for Cap.

Golgo13
Originally posted by beatboks
Barry has never done a speed steal so why attribute that as his ability?
Billy was once asked by Wally if he had a connection to the speed force after they encountered. Clearly any speed advantage Barry may have isn't much or virtually insignificant since Wally has the better feats.
I fail to see how Barry is going to win when we've never seen him do anything that would put him anywhere near that capability. If it was Wally there would be reason for discussion on Flash's behalf. Since it's not it's a clear win for Cap.

Didn't he perform speed tricks when he was the avatar of the SF? IIRC, Geoff said Barry was the SF.

beatboks
Originally posted by Golgo13
Didn't he perform speed tricks when he was the avatar of the SF? IIRC, Geoff said Barry was the SF.

The speed force comes from Barry, he is it's source. every step he makes creates the speed force. His origin was the creation of the speed force ( that then spread outward through time both backward and forward). He however has NEVER done anything with it but run. he has never speed stolen and wouldn't know how. The only ones who have used Speed steal are Wally and Jay.

KingD19
I remember the Jay Garrick/Black Adam fight. Jay tried to steal Adam's speed but it didn't really work. They were both running effortlessly at Mach 500. So fast normal people were statues.

Uriel005
Originally posted by pym-ftw
probably, Billy will have hell trying to get a hand on Flash going by the covers if we take them from that point in time Barry due to speed force abuse... He was pretty active in its use considering he stopped himself from saving his mother.

Edit: whoops for some reason I was thinking the flashpoint title but regardless He was going even with zoom in that.

beatboks
Originally posted by KingD19
I remember the Jay Garrick/Black Adam fight. Jay tried to steal Adam's speed but it didn't really work. They were both running effortlessly at Mach 500. So fast normal people were statues.

Clearly you don't remember it.
1. It wasn't a fight, they were team mates and BA was helping Jay. They ran and BA only got as fast as mach 500 while Jay reached light speed ( it was at mach 500 that BA fell away from Jay and was no longer in the shot and he collapsed shortly afterward).
2. Jay DID steal his speed which was how he broke the time barrier ( the whole point of them running in the first place) and then went back to ancient Egypt to Adam and Nabu at an earlier age.
3. Jay has also stolen Superman's speed as well.

beatboks
Originally posted by KingD19
I remember the Jay Garrick/Black Adam fight. Jay tried to steal Adam's speed but it didn't really work. They were both running effortlessly at Mach 500. So fast normal people were statues.

Oh I also forgot BA was hardly doing it "effortlessly". he was pushing himself to his limits to reach mach 500

abhilegend
Originally posted by beatboks
Barry has never done a speed steal so why attribute that as his ability?
Billy was once asked by Wally if he had a connection to the speed force after they encountered. Clearly any speed advantage Barry may have isn't much or virtually insignificant since Wally has the better feats.
I fail to see how Barry is going to win when we've never seen him do anything that would put him anywhere near that capability. If it was Wally there would be reason for discussion on Flash's behalf. Since it's not it's a clear win for Cap.
Barry is faster than wally as seen in Final Crisis and Flash: Rebirth.

abhilegend
Oh and Adam stumbled near lightspeed, not at mach 500. His strength began to flag at mach 500 but he continued and approaching lightspeed he was just a few steps behind Jay.

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16124807_20-10.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16124811_20-11.jpg

CosmicComet
Barry beats Billy.

Golgo13
Originally posted by beatboks
The speed force comes from Barry, he is it's source. every step he makes creates the speed force. His origin was the creation of the speed force ( that then spread outward through time both backward and forward). He however has NEVER done anything with it but run. he has never speed stolen and wouldn't know how. The only ones who have used Speed steal are Wally and Jay.

I was thinking of an alternate Barry. Sorry.

beatboks
Originally posted by abhilegend
Barry is faster than wally as seen in Final Crisis and Flash: Rebirth.

I dont deny that Barry's faster, but everyone keeps talking speed steal and other speed force powers he never exhibited.

beatboks
Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh and Adam stumbled near lightspeed, not at mach 500. His strength began to flag at mach 500 but he continued and approaching lightspeed he was just a few steps behind Jay.

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16124807_20-10.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16124811_20-11.jpg

I completely disagree with your assessment. take a closer look at the scans you loaded. when they reach mach 500 BA is a few steps behind Jay ( when his strength flags). the last two panels of that page there is ' even a sign of BA in the picture ( that's how far behind he is). when we finally see him in the shot on the next page ( when he stumbles) he's less than half the size of Jay ( maybe half at best). The artwork indicates he's well behind Jay not a s step or two which he was when they reached Mach 500 ( half the speed of light). I dont know any other way of looking at it.

let's remember that in earlier issues of the same series whe BA was an enemy not a friend BA had to use a sonic clap to shatter Glass in the area to keep Jay occupied. he HAD to do that because he was unable to react to his speed and Jay was hitting him 10000's maybe 1000's of times a second ( first more likely). the period of those issues was before lightning strikes when Wally returned to the world from the speed force and with it the connection of all steepsters to it was restored. Jay at that time was not able to attain light speed and could still run rings around BA. there are several other examples of BA not being able to match that type of speed. hardly indicates that BA is any where near light speed does it?

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