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http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/LA_zps532b42cf.jpg

vs

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/SH_zpsaf5cc8ad.jpg

SH

Reasons?

Originally posted by Golgo13
Reasons?

Unless I'm missing something (I'm not particularly well versed in GL lore):

- He's so fast she would be essentially stationary
- Electromagnetism has no effect on light
- There is almost no way she can manipulate light better than he can
- She otherwise has no way of harming Starhawk
- Physically SH can match Thor, and his blasts can match Surfer w/ Q-bands

I'm going to call it a stomp.

Originally posted by Oliver North
Unless I'm missing something (I'm not particularly well versed in GL lore):

- He's so fast she would be essentially stationary
- Electromagnetism has no effect on light
- There is almost no way she can manipulate light better than he can
- She otherwise has no way of harming Starhawk
- Physically SH can match Thor, and his blasts can match Surfer w/ Q-bands

I'm going to call it a stomp.

Lianna has the powers of a Guardian and was shown to be bonded with one of the Heartsones in Omega Men, which grants her energy manipulation as well.

Starhawk can match Krovac in terms of manip and resisted Eon trying to de-age him iirc (either Eon or the Hawk God, who is abstract level).

Originally posted by Oliver North
Starhawk can match Krovac in terms of manip and resisted Eon trying to de-age him iirc (either Eon or the Hawk God, who is abstract level).

You stated that Starhawk could give the likes of Surfer or Thor a good fight. No doubt, Starhawk is powerful, but he isn't stomping a baby Guardian, merged with the Heartstone. I need to re read Omega Men again, but she was pretty powerful energy manipulator in their too.

so, without providing feats, you are just going to hand wave away some of the most impressive things a high herald is capable of?

cool story bro

EDIT: you still haven't even suggested how Lainna hurts Starhawk, given he can become light, and none of her powers would effect him in that form. Nor how she is going to attack someone who can fight at several times the speed of light.

She stomped Kyle and Jade, IIRC. That's pretty high IMO. She was showing advanced powers since she was a mere child. Now merged with a heartstone, she is even more impressive, IMO.

I'm actually not convinced Kyle or Jade would be above Starhawk, minus some Ion thing or whatever...

EDIT: do you have scans or issue numbers?

Originally posted by Oliver North
I'm actually not convinced Kyle or Jade would be above Starhawk, minus some Ion thing or whatever...

EDIT: do you have scans or issue numbers?

I'm thinking GL 150 and Omega Men Vol. 2. I've been meaning to read OM again. It was a solid read. Anyway, Kyle has always been in the tier of high herald such as Thor, Surfer, Superman, etc...

so, Given Starhawk matches Surfer w/Quantum bands, moves so fast that Lainna would be essentially standing still, and is immune to anything she can throw at him, short of trying to argue she is a better light manipulator he is, I really don't understand where your argument is coming from. On panel SH is stated to be the equal of Thor, and in a thread I made the general consensus was that SH would beat Supes...

Thor/Superman is a split as far as I'm concerned. But this isn't a Superman/Thor battle. I was just saying that top tier GL's are high herald and in the same ball park as high heralds like Thor or Superman and definitely above Quasar and Nova.

JMO.

Originally posted by Oliver North
so, Given Starhawk matches Surfer w/Quantum bands, moves so fast that Lainna would be essentially standing still, and is immune to anything she can throw at him, short of trying to argue she is a better light manipulator he is, I really don't understand where your argument is coming from.

also, Lainna isn't in GL 150, and submitting an entire volume as evidence is, well, silly to say the least.

So, my assumption is that you have no scans or evidence to support your position...

I thought it was Kyle that was in awe of her power, so it's pretty obvious that she was operating at a higher power level than basic GL's. And try checking the right volume, I believe it was around 150. Agree to disagree.

Originally posted by Oliver North
So, you have no scans or evidence to support your position...

Originally posted by Golgo13
Thor/Superman is a split as far as I'm concerned. But this isn't a Superman/Thor battle. I was just saying that top tier GL's are high herald and in the same ball park as high heralds like Thor or Superman and definitely above Quasar and Nova.

JMO.

that still isn't even close to evidence...

Weren't you going to make a Starhawk Respect thread? Once i start seeing that SH is above the likes of a GL/Guardian, then I'll concede.

the only possible way I can interpret that is you saying that you have no evidence to support the position that Lainna even stands a chance against SH.

"make a respect thread and I will concede"

cool story bro

Once I see something on GL's level, I will change my mind.

have you seen the Korvac or Keeper scans?

Starhawk is pretty impressive. But, IMHO, his defense is greater than his offense.

He has some great evasion and defense feats but in actually beating someone down? I"m drawing a blank.

Originally posted by zopzop
Starhawk is pretty impressive. But, IMHO, his defense is greater than his offense.

He has some great evasion and defense feats but in actually beating someone down? I"m drawing a blank.

against an actual opponent, fair point, there aren't a lot. He does match Keeper in terms of offensive energy, but his best feats are breaking a force field that Thor's strength would be ineffective against, or cutting out of a dimension that Eon tried to trap him within.

The female version is able to do an omni-directional blast that destroys an asteroid, but there is a whole can of worms with that... its not an "alternate reality" SH, but it isn't the GotG proper version either. No suggestion that they would have different powers, but it is a weird context in terms of forum rules. He blows up some space-ships and space-defenses, but I'm not sure if that would be a "fodder" type of feat. Similarly, he blows up a bunch of androids/cyborgs of the "Stark" race, so basically people in futuristic Iron Man tech, but again, not entirely quantifiable.

Originally posted by Oliver North
breaking a force field that Thor's strength would be ineffective against.

Scan? Is it from that one fight they had?

Originally posted by Oliver North
have you seen the Korvac or Keeper scans?

Like I said before, I've been interested in seeing some stuff from Starhawk. Even when I collected Marvel cards, GOTG looked pretty cool, but I have seen very little from him. I'm not opposed to SH beating Lianna, but what I am opposed to is this being a stomp in his favor. If anything, SH against the likes of Lianna would be a good battle. Once I get my laptop fixed, I'll search for some scans of her.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Scan? Is it from that one fight they had?

yup

it is a statement SH makes (he is "the one who knows". You don't see Thor hit it, so its not saying Starhawk has energy output greater than Thor's upper strength levels specifically, just that Starhawk can break a shield with energy that Thor couldn't with strength.

C'mon, SH has like, what 100-150 appearances and is from a future timeline. Stuff that is even remotely quantifiable is hard to find, lol.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238756_shield.jpg

Originally posted by Golgo13
Like I said before, I've been interested in seeing some stuff from Starhawk. Even when I collected Marvel cards, GOTG looked pretty cool, but I have seen very little from him. I'm not opposed to SH beating Lianna, but what I am opposed to is this being a stomp in his favor. If anything, SH against the likes of Lianna would be a good battle. Once I get my laptop fixed, I'll search for some scans of her.

vs Keeper:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238724_surferwithqbands1a.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238725_surferwithqbands1b.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238749_surferwithqbands1c.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238726_surferwithqbands1d.jpg

vs Her (the female equivalent of Adam Warlock):

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238727_matches_Her.jpg

h2h vs Mantis:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238722_vsmantis1a.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238723_vsmantis1b.jpg

h2h vs Thor:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238728_vsthor1a.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238730_vsthor1b.jpg

vs Korvac:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238733_korvac1a.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238734_korvac1b.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238735_korvac1c.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238736_korvac1d.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238738_korvac1e.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238739_korvac1f.jpg

Firelord can't hurt him:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238844_reflexesvsfirelord.jpg

Survives in the center of a sun:

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15238774_sun.jpg

Originally posted by Oliver North
vs Keeper:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238724_surferwithqbands1a.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238725_surferwithqbands1b.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238749_surferwithqbands1c.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238726_surferwithqbands1d.jpg

vs Her (the female equivalent of Adam Warlock):

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238727_matches_Her.jpg

h2h vs Mantis:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238722_vsmantis1a.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238723_vsmantis1b.jpg

h2h vs Thor:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238728_vsthor1a.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238730_vsthor1b.jpg


Most impressive! At least the fight with Surfer. Not too impressed or sold on the others. I'll see what I can dig up from the OM series and GL with Kyle.

Originally posted by Oliver North
yup

it is a statement SH makes (he is "the one who knows". You don't see Thor hit it, so its not saying Starhawk has energy output greater than Thor's upper strength levels specifically, just that Starhawk can break a shield with energy that Thor couldn't with strength.

C'mon, SH has like, what 100-150 appearances and is from a future timeline. Stuff that is even remotely quantifiable is hard to find, lol.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238756_shield.jpg

The way he phrased it ("Brute strength is useless..." makes it seem that physical blunt force simply wouldn't work against the stasis field more so then it being a matter of power levels. But that's just my opinion. I don't really have problem taking his word for it. I'm sure if Thor had to, he could punch his way through the field or whatever.

Originally posted by Oliver North
h2h vs Thor:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238728_vsthor1a.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238730_vsthor1b.jpg

In your opinion, did it seem like Thor was winning at the end there/gaining the edge? Or is that me just being a fanboy?

Breaches shields with energy manip, destroys shields and space defenses, is too fast for mines, etc:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238761_ships1a.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238762_ships1b.jpg

omnidirectional blinding of hundreds of people:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238757_blinding.jpg

omnidirectional blast:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238755_boom.jpg

Manipulates energy across timelines to control Doom's time machine:

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15238776_timemachineb.jpg

Manipulates light to heal, sometimes from assumed death:

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15238771_healing.jpg
&
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15238772_healing2.jpg
&
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15238773_healing3.jpg

Originally posted by Oliver North
Breaches shields with energy manip, destroys shields and space defenses, is too fast for mines, etc:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238761_ships1a.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238762_ships1b.jpg

omnidirectional blinding of hundreds of people:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238757_blinding.jpg

omnidirectional blast:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238755_boom.jpg

Manipulates energy across timelines to control Doom's time machine:

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15238776_timemachineb.jpg

Manipulates light to heal, sometimes from assumed death:

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15238771_healing.jpg
&
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15238772_healing2.jpg
&
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15238773_healing3.jpg

Great stuff there.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
In your opinion, did it seem like Thor was winning at the end there/gaining the edge? Or is that me just being a fanboy?

It looked like it to me as well. Which is why I wasn't impressed with the Thor scans.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The way he phrased it ("Brute strength is useless..." makes it seem that physical blunt force simply wouldn't work against the stasis field more so then it being a matter of power levels. But that's just my opinion. I don't really have problem taking his word for it. I'm sure if Thor had to, he could punch his way through the field or whatever.

I actually don't disagree at all. Its not a hugely quantifiable feat, but given there aren't a lot of 1v1 fights that Starhawk was a part of (GotG was more of a space opera than typical beat-em-up comic) it is sort of all I've got.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
In your opinion, did it seem like Thor was winning at the end there/gaining the edge? Or is that me just being a fanboy?

sure. I'd argue Starhawk is hardly fighting in character, but there is no way he should be able to beat Thor in a h2h fight.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Most impressive! At least the fight with Surfer. Not too impressed or sold on the others. I'll see what I can dig up from the OM series and GL with Kyle.

contending with someone of Adam Warlock's level and matching Mantis or Thor in h2h aren't impressive to you?

lol, ok

Originally posted by Oliver North
I actually don't disagree at all. Its not a hugely quantifiable feat, but given there aren't a lot of 1v1 fights that Starhawk was a part of (GotG was more of a space opera than typical beat-em-up comic) it is sort of all I've got.



sure. I'd argue Starhawk is hardly fighting in character, but there is no way he should be able to beat Thor in a h2h fight.



contending with someone of Adam Warlock's level and matching Mantis or Thor in h2h aren't impressive to you?

lol, ok

Not really. Like I said, I'd lump the cream of the crop top tiers around the same and either one of them could win on any given day.

ok, so where is the evidence you have to put Lainna in that group?

EDIT: let me just emphasize, he took out Mantis, in h2h, in 3 panels.

Originally posted by Oliver North
ok, so where is the evidence you have to put Lainna in that group?

Once I get the scans, I'll post them.

Originally posted by Oliver North
I actually don't disagree at all. Its not a hugely quantifiable feat, but given there aren't a lot of 1v1 fights that Starhawk was a part of (GotG was more of a space opera than typical beat-em-up comic) it is sort of all I've got.

sure. I'd argue Starhawk is hardly fighting in character, but there is no way he should be able to beat Thor in a h2h fight.

Fair enough.

Yeah, I don't expect him to be able to win against Thor in hand to hand. Even if all their physical stats were exact equal, I still think Thor should kick his ass sooner or later due to how different they are. Still, he matched him well enough, that's more then most can hope to do.

Originally posted by Golgo13
It looked like it to me as well. Which is why I wasn't impressed with the Thor scans.

Why wouldn't you be impressed?

Personally I was very impressed. Very few characters can hope to stand up to Thor in a hand to hand fight, much less when he has Mjolnir.

Not only is that not his usual fighting style, but Starhawk has very few appearances.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Fair enough.

Yeah, I don't expect him to be able to win against Thor in hand to hand. Even if all their physical stats were exact equal, I still think Thor should kick his ass sooner or later due to how different they are. Still, he matched him well enough, that's more then most can hope to do.

It is just so out of character for him. Typically, in that situation, he would go intangible, like so:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238758_intangible2.jpg

His MO is more ranged fighting

just because the edit might have been missed on the last page, for as impressive as the Thor fight is, beating Mantis, h2h, in 3 panels, imho tops that.

Mantis in her first appearance stunned Thor with a pressure point to the neck or whatever. God, Englehart is such an insufferable fanboy.

She has a lot of one offs like that iirc, which is why I love that feat so much

Originally posted by Oliver North
It is just so out of character for him. Typically, in that situation, he would go intangible, like so:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15238758_intangible2.jpg

His MO is more ranged fighting

They couldn't help it, mind control and all that.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why wouldn't you be impressed?

Personally I was very impressed. Very few characters can hope to stand up to Thor in a hand to hand fight, much less when he has Mjolnir.

Not only is that not his usual fighting style, but Starhawk has very few appearances.

I'm generally not impressed with brief fights.