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Superman and Black Adam set aside their differences and take on The Runner (no Space Gem) in a battle to the Death or KO with no BFR allowed...

Who wins?

Two High Heralds vs One Mid Trans? Runner wins.

Lol...Superman and Adam stomps. Would have been best to give him the gem.

What are runner's feats?
I think the team would beat him easily.

Originally posted by h1a8
What are runner's feats?
I think Superman alone would beat him.

Easily defeating Surfer.

Doesn't mean those two can't knock him out....

The runner gives them orgasms from a nice distance, superman and adam cum in the tight spandex panties, there legs turn to jelly and have 5 minutes rest while the runner finishes off a weeks worth of paper work, he comes back in a mere 5 minutes to see adam an superman bright red with pure ecstasy, they have there way with eachother while the runner laughs at there incredibly small manhood, then beats them viciously, then makes them feel better by stimulating there sensitive spots, by punching them, adam an superman cum yet again, and then runner calls them foul ****, he then takes lois and has his way with her, whilst superman watches but the runner has made him so horny he loves it and hates it at the same time, he then goes into a huge orgasm frenzy, viciously rapes adam, hes goes to lois expecting sex but she has left him for the sex god that is the the runner, the runner then beats all 3 of them to death, in the space of 7 minutes, on that bombshell, its safe to say the runner takes this, godbless any woman in the universe

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Doesn't mean those two can't knock him out....

I agree.

My first post was a very accurate prediction of how it would go down, but hes far faster, just as strong, powerful matter manipulation, power of cosmic energy and also, hes a tough cookie to crumble, the runner 8-9/10

Superman wins.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
The runner gives them orgasms from a nice distance, superman and adam cum in the tight spandex panties, there legs turn to jelly and have 5 minutes rest while the runner finishes off a weeks worth of paper work, he comes back in a mere 5 minutes to see adam an superman bright red with pure ecstasy, they have there way with eachother while the runner laughs at there incredibly small manhood, then beats them viciously, then makes them feel better by stimulating there sensitive spots, by punching them, adam an superman cum yet again, and then runner calls them foul ****, he then takes lois and has his way with her, whilst superman watches but the runner has made him so horny he loves it and hates it at the same time, he then goes into a huge orgasm frenzy, viciously rapes adam, hes goes to lois expecting sex but she has left him for the sex god that is the the runner, the runner then beats all 3 of them to death, in the space of 7 minutes, on that bombshell, its safe to say the runner takes this, godbless any woman in the universe

Warned for... Well, just warned. That's messed up.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Warned for... Well, just warned. That's messed up.
messed up yes, true and accurate, also yes, we both know that PR

Silver surfer was weakened when he was beaten by Runner anyway.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
messed up yes, true and accurate, also yes, we both know that PR

I don't want to know what kind of fantasy land you live in, tbh... ermm

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't want to know what kind of fantasy land you live in, tbh... ermm the wrong one friend, the wrong one.

Got to say I agree with the moderator, that post was just plain weird Leon.

I stand by it paul

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
I stand by it paul

were you aroused when you typed it? Because some strange shit must be going on in your head dude.... w-why write that?

It was a joke reply playing on the runners ability to stimulate people and sh!t, i still think he wins (yes a messed up 50% accurate joke)

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Doesn't mean those two can't knock him out....

If the Runner is anywhere near serious, this is not a contest. They only touch him if he wants them to. And unlike Flash, he has class 100 strength and is not grounded.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
It was a joke reply playing on the runners ability to stimulate people and sh!t, i still think he wins (yes a messed up 50% accurate joke)

I got it was an attempt at a joke.... Anyway, read Julian May's saga of exiles you actually get guys with mental powers killing people with multiple orgasms.

takes only Superman

Originally posted by abhilegend
Silver surfer was weakened when he was beaten by Runner anyway.

He also beat the living crap out of the Collecter.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Silver surfer was weakened when he was beaten by Runner anyway.

Which is made totally irrelevant by this:

http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo45/aarons24/Superman/The%20Runner/runnersurfer5.jpg

His power is just stronger, period.

Originally posted by Paul Calf
I got it was an attempt at a joke.... Anyway, read Julian May's saga of exiles you actually get guys with mental powers killing people with multiple orgasms. attempt? Your just being narrow minded, and seriously? I used to want to die in my sleep, best way to go? Nope. Death via orgasm is

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
If the Runner is anywhere near serious, this is not a contest. They only touch him if he wants them to. And unlike Flash, he has class 100 strength and is not grounded. The runner without the space gem has no feats that shit on Superman's.

What are his feats?
Beating a weakened Surfer is not enough.

How did he beat the collector? And what has the collector has done?

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
attempt? Your just being narrow minded, and seriously? I used to want to die in my sleep, best way to go? Nope. Death via orgasm is

best way to go is by playing non stop GOW.

Originally posted by h1a8
The runner without the space gem has no feats that shit on Superman's.

What are his feats?
Beating a weakened Surfer is not enough.

How did he beat the collector? And what has the collector has done?

no point arguing with that guy he is just trolling.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Which is made totally irrelevant by this:

http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo45/aarons24/Superman/The%20Runner/runnersurfer5.jpg

His power is just stronger, period.

After looking at this, Runner wins.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Which is made totally irrelevant by this:

http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo45/aarons24/Superman/The%20Runner/runnersurfer5.jpg

His power is just stronger, period. Superman and Ba are a lot stronger than SS. Thor is probably stronger than SS. Even Hulk could do that, provided SS doesn't drain him. I don't see how that feat proves he can beat Superman solo or Ba solo.

Surfer is a huge huge jobber on paper though he should be able to wreck superman and ba easily but thats not the point, im for the runner taking this, but him beating ss is nothing special

Originally posted by carver9
After looking at this, Runner wins.

I already know that you don't read comics, but I mean come on now...

Originally posted by abhilegend
Silver surfer was weakened when he was beaten by Runner anyway.
Well well well. Look what we have here. Could it have been Champion BSing to save face? Or was he telling the truth?

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...Superman and Adam stomps.

Originally posted by zopzop
Well well well. Look what we have here. Could it have been Champion BSing to save face? Or was he telling the truth?

Since it in this case it would make Superman look good, it 100% accurate. In any other case, it's a case of the writers trying to help the losing character save face. naughty

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
If the Runner is anywhere near serious, this is not a contest. They only touch him if he wants them to. And unlike Flash, he has class 100 strength and is not grounded.
Really? Mantis must be the fastest being ever!!!!!!

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
He also beat the living crap out of the Collecter.
Obileterator you mean who was defeated when he transmuted his weapons?Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Which is made totally irrelevant by this:

http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo45/aarons24/Superman/The%20Runner/runnersurfer5.jpg

His power is just stronger, period.
Why? Beating a weakened Surfer isn't that impressive anyway. Surfer was nearly killed by that planet fall and he had to be healed by Mantis.Originally posted by zopzop
Well well well. Look what we have here. Could it have been Champion BSing to save face? Or was he telling the truth?
Surfer was killed by Korvac. Usually that weakens characters. Surfer was nearly killed by that planet fall and had to be healed by Mantis. If you want to tell that it was a full powered surfer, its just a pathetic showing for surfer.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/16435841_SS_v3_003_15b.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/16435843_SS_v3_003_16b.jpg

In the same comic Mantis took Runner out by tripping him.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/16435844_SS_v3_004_15b.jpg

Not that beating surfer in h2h means you can beat Superman when he's vastly stronger and faster than Surfer.

Originally posted by wolverinos
takes only Superman Don't go that far.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Don't go that far.
Honestly he is enough to beat runner.

Originally posted by wolverinos
no point arguing with that guy he is just trolling.

Lol i meant there is no point to argue with carver because he is trolling.

Runner is slower than Makkari

Not to mention Surfer admitted he was slower than Lightspeed in flightspeed just before that fight with runner. "I can fly near speed of light".

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/16436535_SS_v3_002_10a.jpg

Just one issue before the fight with Runner.

I think now a days Surfer has to enter warp speed to go faster than light, but I could be mistaken

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not to mention Surfer admitted he was slower than Lightspeed in flightspeed just before that fight with runner. "I can fly near speed of light".

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/16436535_SS_v3_002_10a.jpg

Just one issue before the fight with Runner.




Surfer can and has traveled many times the speed of light, so I don't know what sort of point you are trying to make.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Surfer can and has traveled many times the speed of light, so I don't know what sort of point you are trying to make. Can you show Surfer traveling without hyperspace? At light speed.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't want to know what kind of fantasy land you live in, tbh... ermm
Only explanation is that he hasn't been laid in years.

Originally posted by Kstanz
Can you show Surfer traveling without hyperspace? At light speed.


Infinity Gauntlet. He and Warlock moves at incredible speeds beyond light, and then once they got to a far enough distance the Surfer speeds back withou a warp tunnel and attempts to steal the gauntlet from Thanos while the Titan was occupied. He really is faster than light.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not to mention Surfer admitted he was slower than Lightspeed in flightspeed just before that fight with runner. "I can fly near speed of light".

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/16436535_SS_v3_002_10a.jpg

Just one issue before the fight with Runner.




You don't want to go there. I promise you don't want to go there in regards to quotes and speed.

Originally posted by Kstanz
Can you show Surfer traveling without hyperspace? At light speed.

Just pull up a any of several random Surfer respect threads. This is the sort of nonsense and confusion abi likes to start by lowballing characters. I swear he has a hard drive of low end feats.

You people are missing his point.

So stuck up in trying to pass as a lie everything he says.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11/111099/2989675-2598683-silversurfer_rune_37.jpg

Any questions?

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Surfer can and has traveled many times the speed of light, so I don't know what sort of point you are trying to make.
He has also said he can't reach speed of light many times. The writer who wrote the runner fight also had Surfer unable to escape a black hole. Its clear he didn't think surfer was FTL outside hyperspeed.Originally posted by Stoic
Infinity Gauntlet. He and Warlock moves at incredible speeds beyond light, and then once they got to a far enough distance the Surfer speeds back withou a warp tunnel and attempts to steal the gauntlet from Thanos while the Titan was occupied. He really is faster than light.
That's good but it doesn't has any impact on Runner's speed.Originally posted by carver9
You don't want to go there. I promise you don't want to go there in regards to quotes and speed.
Superman has had several upgrades since then. At one time he wasn't able to go lightspeed but that's no longer the case.Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11/111099/2989675-2598683-silversurfer_rune_37.jpg

Any questions?
Only one. Why are you posting a feat from a crossover comic?

Originally posted by abhilegend
In the same comic Mantis took Runner out by tripping him.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/16435844_SS_v3_004_15b.jpg

Not that beating surfer in h2h means you can beat Superman when he's vastly stronger and faster than Surfer.

Mantis tripping the Runner is the typical jobbing instances that all speedsters have to go through. Spiderman hitting Quicksilver with a forearm while getting speed blitzed, Slade hitting Wally, any street leveler hitting Superman etc.

With their reflexes conveniently turned down at moments where they would otherwise see an attack or character as slug-like or even statue-esque depending on the gap.

Mantis moving her leg fast enough to trip Runner, if it was an actual feat, would mean she can move her legs at a comparable speed to him, Which of course is false. So its not an actual feat, just PIS.
Otherwise he would just casually take his time to tip toe around the slowly, slowly outstretching leg.


Not that it matters, Superman's speed feats are as good or better than Runner's in this thread.

Seriously, how can you guys be arguing over The runner beating Surfer? Its not an impressive feat at all, Thanos, Thor and Hulk and more have all done it, i mean, seriously, how many times has he been beaten to death by fighting? He gets destroyed by characters who on paper, arent even in the same league as him, IMHO on paper in a cisless an pisless story, surfer would bring superman and black adam to their goddamn knees with relative ease, but hes the worst written character ive seen, this is so stupid.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Seriously, how can you guys be arguing over The runner beating Surfer? Its not an impressive feat at all, Thanos, Thor and Hulk and more have all done it, i mean, seriously, how many times has he been beaten to death by fighting? He gets destroyed by characters who on paper, arent even in the same league as him, IMHO on paper in a cisless an pisless story, surfer would bring superman and black adam to their goddamn knees with relative ease, but hes the worst written character ive seen, this is so stupid.



Surfer is written shitty at times. Because he is so powerful. So getting him to job sometimes makes the story more appealing (makes the adversary seem more formidable).

Same shit happens to Superman, Thor and most heralds.

They will get shafted. It just happens.

Hulk get shafted every single time he is put against Wolverine.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Same shit happens to Superman, Thor and most heralds.

They will get shafted. It just happens.

Hulk get shafted every single time he is put against Wolverine.

Anyone vs Wolverine really. He's the same as Batman.

based on displayed feats, a case could be made for the dc guys. if it happened in a comic, runner would likely run a train through them. he can traverse galaxies in moments without the gem and he's never even been threatened in a fight, let alone defeated. he quite literally toyed with ss (however you want to view his level). he's got high level tp, can turn intangible and can clearly amp his strength to well above cl100. i've always considered him second to maybe only grandmaster in terms of sheer power as an elder. pretty sure he would be a team wrecker if he wasn't so.....starfox-esque. he's basically flash if flash were almost completely invulnerable and possessed of greater than ss-style cosmic power. he SHOULD wreck these 2, but again, based on what has been shown, a case can be made for supes/ba. the same kind of case that can almost ALWAYS be made when one character has almost no feats, and the others have hundreds upon hundreds......that, however, doesn't always make for the best, nor most convincing forms of argument, imho.

Originally posted by leonidas
based on displayed feats, a case could be made for the dc guys. if it happened in a comic, runner would likely run a train through them. he can traverse galaxies in moments without the gem and he's never even been threatened in a fight, let alone defeated. he quite literally toyed with ss (however you want to view his level). he's got high level tp, can turn intangible and can clearly amp his strength to well above cl100. i've always considered him second to maybe only grandmaster in terms of sheer power as an elder. pretty sure he would be a team wrecker if he wasn't so.....starfox-esque. he's basically flash if flash were almost completely invulnerable and possessed of greater than ss-style cosmic power. he SHOULD wreck these 2, but again, based on what has been shown, a case can be made for supes/ba. the same kind of case that can almost ALWAYS be made when one character has almost no feats, and the others have hundreds upon hundreds......that, however, doesn't always make for the best, nor most convincing forms of argument, imho.

well put

Superman wins on his lonesome.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Anyone vs Wolverine really. He's the same as Batman.
Everyone except Ethan Even Captain America's jobber aura was useless against him!

Originally posted by h1a8


Surfer is written shitty at times. Because he is so powerful. So getting him to job sometimes makes the story more appealing (makes the adversary seem more formidable).

Bingo.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Seriously, how can you guys be arguing over The runner beating Surfer? Its not an impressive feat at all, Thanos, Thor and Hulk and more have all done it, i mean, seriously, how many times has he been beaten to death by fighting? He gets destroyed by characters who on paper, arent even in the same league as him, IMHO on paper in a cisless an pisless story, surfer would bring superman and black adam to their goddamn knees with relative ease, but hes the worst written character ive seen, this is so stupid.

It's not that he beat him, it's the manner in which her appeared to outclass him. He admits or at least contemplates the idea that the Runner is more powerful. Also, let's not forget the Runner has been building his power for billions of years.

Runner

Honestly, the Runner should destroy these two chumps.

Originally posted by tkitna
Honestly, the Runner should destroy these two chumps.

based off him having no feats that shits on theirs. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

Originally posted by tkitna
Honestly, the Runner should destroy these two chumps.
Why? Because he beat a weakened surfer?

Originally posted by leonidas
based on displayed feats, a case could be made for the dc guys. if it happened in a comic, runner would likely run a train through them. he can traverse galaxies in moments without the gem and he's never even been threatened in a fight, let alone defeated. he quite literally toyed with ss (however you want to view his level). he's got high level tp, can turn intangible and can clearly amp his strength to well above cl100. i've always considered him second to maybe only grandmaster in terms of sheer power as an elder. pretty sure he would be a team wrecker if he wasn't so.....starfox-esque. he's basically flash if flash were almost completely invulnerable and possessed of greater than ss-style cosmic power. he SHOULD wreck these 2, but again, based on what has been shown, a case can be made for supes/ba. the same kind of case that can almost ALWAYS be made when one character has almost no feats, and the others have hundreds upon hundreds......that, however, doesn't always make for the best, nor most convincing forms of argument, imho.
How's he nearly invulnerable? Where did he amp his strength above class 100? You know superman has crossed galaxies too, right?

Thanks for the replies guys...

This fight is one of those situations where you have to look at more than just feats due to the fact that the team has far, far, more appearances than the The Runner does; you have to look at implied power as well...

I once made this very point in a thread where only high feats could be used as arguments and the contestants where Thanos, Thor, Surfer, Superman, and Hal; if you base things strictly on feats, Thanos finishes last compared to those Heralds...


This situation is no different; yes, Surfer was weakened when he fought the Runner, but the Runner wasnt trying very hard either (he was borderline toying with the Surfer) and still crushed him with ease...

The implication (especially combined with the Surfers thoughts at the beginning of the next issue) is that Elders are beyond High Heralds like the Surfer...


Anyway, I think Adam and Supes show more heart than the Surfer did against the Runner, but in the end the result is the exact same; The Runner wins...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Thanks for the replies guys...

This fight is one of those situations where you have to look at more than just feats due to the fact that the team has far, far, more appearances than the The Runner does; you have to look at implied power as well...

I once made this very point in a thread where only high feats could be used as arguments and the contestants where Thanos, Thor, Surfer, Superman, and Hal; if you base things strictly on feats, Thanos finishes last compared to those Heralds...


This situation is no different; yes, Surfer was weakened when he fought the Runner, but the Runner wasnt trying very hard either (he was borderline toying with the Surfer) and still crushed him with ease...

The implication (especially combined with the Surfers thoughts at the beginning of the next issue) is that Elders are beyond High Heralds like the Surfer...


Anyway, I think Adam and Supes show more heart than the Surfer did against the Runner, but in the end the result is the exact same; The Runner wins...

Originally posted by h1a8
based off him having no feats that shits on theirs. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

Based on the fact that he's faster, more versatile, and I would say probably physically superior. Yeah, i'm really not seeing a problem here.

Originally posted by tkitna
Based on the fact that he's faster, more versatile, and I would say probably physically superior. Yeah, i'm really not seeing a problem here.
You can't be serious here. Faster is absolutely arguable, more versatile and stronger? Don't make me laugh.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You can't be serious here. Faster is absolutely arguable, more versatile and stronger? Don't make me laugh.

Faster and being more versatile really arent arguable, the physically stronger bit may be pushing it. Regardless, with no CIS or PIS, the Runner should stomp even if he only has less then a handful of appearances.

Its ok to take the fanboy glasses off sometimes.

Originally posted by tkitna
Faster and being more versatile really arent arguable, the physically stronger bit may be pushing it. Regardless, with no CIS or PIS, the Runner should stomp even if he only has less then a handful of appearances.

Its ok to take the fanboy glasses off sometimes.
How's being faster and versatile isn't arguable? What has Runner done versatility anyway? Beating a weakened Surfer and outpacing him isn't that impressive. Makkari left him in the dust when he went lightspeed too.

Superman would punch his teeth in if he tried to do surfer route on him. Superman is far stronger than surfer and wouldn't nearly die by falling to a planet. Who is being a fanboy here? The guy who is arguing a character beats Superman and Black Adam just because he beat a weakened surfer or the guy who knows that beating surfer doesn't means you can suddenly beat everyone in herald category.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Thanks for the replies guys...

This fight is one of those situations where you have to look at more than just feats due to the fact that the team has far, far, more appearances than the The Runner does; you have to look at implied power as well...

I once made this very point in a thread where only high feats could be used as arguments and the contestants where Thanos, Thor, Surfer, Superman, and Hal; if you base things strictly on feats, Thanos finishes last compared to those Heralds...


This situation is no different; yes, Surfer was weakened when he fought the Runner, but the Runner wasnt trying very hard either (he was borderline toying with the Surfer) and still crushed him with ease...

The implication (especially combined with the Surfers thoughts at the beginning of the next issue) is that Elders are beyond High Heralds like the Surfer...


Anyway, I think Adam and Supes show more heart than the Surfer did against the Runner, but in the end the result is the exact same; The Runner wins... I'd be willing to agree with you if it wasn't a team up.

Basically the way I see it either Supes or Adam punch Runner away from their partner before the whole charm power starts messing with either one of them.

Originally posted by abhilegend
How's being faster and versatile isn't arguable? What has Runner done versatility anyway? Beating a weakened Surfer and outpacing him isn't that impressive. Makkari left him in the dust when he went lightspeed too.

The fact that he's an Elder Of The Universe with abilities to screw with peoples emotions, matter manipulation, energy output, etc,,,beats the flying bricks heat vision and a littlebit of frost breath. As for how fast he is, are people actually using that stupid story with Makkari and Barry Allen as actual ammo? The Runner is basically Marvels version of the Flash except on a cosmic scale. I cant sit here and say for sure that he's faster as I dont think an actual speed has been determined, but even if he's not, he'll be in the ballpark. Also, the fact that he was faster on every account then the Surfer sways me towards that conclusion.



Superman and BA would be there stroking themselves, blowing kisses to the Runner while he casually rips their windpipes out with his bare hands. I cant see anyway for them to win the more I think about it.

Its all right to disagree I cant force you to be right.

Originally posted by tkitna
The fact that he's an Elder Of The Universe with abilities to screw with peoples emotions, matter manipulation, energy output, etc,,,beats the flying bricks heat vision and a littlebit of frost breath. Haha, what? His only other ability is some type of starfox-esque charm. Superman has better energy projection feats with HV. That's not Barry Allen and it was a story from one of the biggest marvel cosmic writers ever, Mark Gruenwald. You saying its stupid doesn't means much anyway. It doesn't makes it non canon. That's just an asinine logic. you might as well say that Gladiator gets superman's feats because he's a clone of superman. He doesn't has feats to be faster than superman. By that logic Spider man is faster than superman too, midnight sun and Ganeymede too. Surfer wasn't FTL in flight speed under Englehart, much less combat speed in which superman lefts him in the dust. It was a weakened surfer to boot.



We're not talking about your wet dream last night. Then you don't know much about any character in this thread.

I can't force you to read comics and come out of your fantasy land too. Alas.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, what? His only other ability is some type of starfox-esque charm. Superman has better energy projection feats with HV.

Yeah, Superman has a billion years of feats to fall back on. The Runner used energy blasts in 2 or three panels total that i'm aware of. Marvel says he's a matter manipulator also (cant remember an example without pulling the books), but thats not hard to accept with a character that has tapped the Power Primordial and obtains the power cosmic.



Gladiator has Superman like feats. Just saying. Surfer being dragged down by Englehart would be the same as say,,,the Runner being written in a silly story and drug down by Gruenwald. I see how that works now.



I've read enough comics to conclude that the Runner is a character that appears and should be above the likes of a flying brick like Superman.

Just because Superman has a million years worth of comics by different writers doesnt mean he automatically wins because of his many, many, many feats. Sometimes you need to use common sense even when the character being discussed is the one you have hanging on your bedroom door.

Originally posted by tkitna
Yeah, Superman has a billion years of feats to fall back on. The Runner used energy blasts in 2 or three panels total that i'm aware of. Marvel says he's a matter manipulator also (cant remember an example without pulling the books), but thats not hard to accept with a character that has tapped the Power Primordial and obtains the power cosmic. So nothing but your opinion as what runner should be, not what he actually is. Several people have tapped power cosmic and power primordial. Even his fellow elder Obiletarator was unable to matter manipulate his guns after surfer transmuted them.



He wishes. Gruenwald wrote surfer as damn near unstoppable, quasar leeched a star's worth of energy from him and he didn't even felt it. Except Gruenwald's Runner isn't that out of norm when you consider that Englehart didn't write surfer as FTL himself.



"Should be" isn't enough. You can pick any character and say he should be above this character, that's not how things work.

Even his average is better than Runner's feats. Let me count Runner's feats. Beating a weakened Surfer, getting taken out by mantis, Thanos playing possum and getting better of him and then Makkari basically saying "**** you" to his speed. So which common sense says that Runner beating a weakened surfer who is both vastly weaker and slower than superman? Your insults are very childish I might add.

Originally posted by Diesldude
Only explanation is that he hasn't been laid in years. yep, thats it

Originally posted by abhilegend
Why? Because he beat a weakened surfer?


How's he nearly invulnerable? Where did he amp his strength above class 100? You know superman has crossed galaxies too, right?

an argument can easily be raised regarding your 'weakened' surfer theory. if you show the full scan, as opposed to the cropped one, you'll see the other elders suggest it's nothing more than his bruised ego that is talking, that he's making nothing more than a face-saving comment regarding runner's easy win over ss and his own loss. if you look at champ's fight against norrin, it is pretty clear ss didn't exactly have to push himself to win what was a very brief battle. even his battle against korvac was extremely brief. in short--take champ at his word if you must, but ss has fought FAR harder for FAR greater amounts of time against equally powerful opponents and not been considered 'weakened'. the other elders seem to agree with me.

as regards to invulnerability, he can't die. we've no real proof of the level of power that it would take to actually ko him, but he is certainly far above ss's level IMO. that opinion is bolstered by ss's own admission of such, not only against runner, but also against obliterator. he very specifically says obliterator's power is beyond him and obliterator agrees that ss's power cosmic is meaningless to him. that is why ss HAD to change his weapons. he couldn't win any other way. even thanos recently with his faux cube could do no more than banish the elders. and while it wasn't a true cube, it WAS exceptionally powerful.

in speed--sure supes has dozens of uber speed feats. but i'll take runner still. barring that pis-laden quasar arc of course where the speed of light was considered ultimate speed. lol too much versatility for runner. tp, emotional control, uber cosmic power well above ss, speed, intangibility, easily able to amp strength to cl100+ levels.....

i won't go feat-for-feat for obvious reasons. and me and everyone else on the forum already knows that nothing i or anyone else will say will change your stance in this, but those are MY opinions on runner and why i believe he is above both these guys.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Thanks for the replies guys...

This fight is one of those situations where you have to look at more than just feats due to the fact that the team has far, far, more appearances than the The Runner does; you have to look at implied power as well...

I once made this very point in a thread where only high feats could be used as arguments and the contestants where Thanos, Thor, Surfer, Superman, and Hal; if you base things strictly on feats, Thanos finishes last compared to those Heralds...


This situation is no different; yes, Surfer was weakened when he fought the Runner, but the Runner wasnt trying very hard either (he was borderline toying with the Surfer) and still crushed him with ease...

The implication (especially combined with the Surfers thoughts at the beginning of the next issue) is that Elders are beyond High Heralds like the Surfer...


Anyway, I think Adam and Supes show more heart than the Surfer did against the Runner, but in the end the result is the exact same; The Runner wins...

Agreed.

Originally posted by abhilegend
How's being faster and versatile isn't arguable? What has Runner done versatility anyway? Beating a weakened Surfer and outpacing him isn't that impressive. Makkari left him in the dust when he went lightspeed too.

Superman would punch his teeth in if he tried to do surfer route on him. Superman is far stronger than surfer and wouldn't nearly die by falling to a planet. Who is being a fanboy here? The guy who is arguing a character beats Superman and Black Adam just because he beat a weakened surfer or the guy who knows that beating surfer doesn't means you can suddenly beat everyone in herald category.

Unbunch you panties, dude. You really should stop getting all emotionally involved about something that doesn't exist.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
I'd be willing to agree with you if it wasn't a team up.

Basically the way I see it either Supes or Adam punch Runner away from their partner before the whole charm power starts messing with either one of them.

You realize The Runner has EP as well, right? He's a class above them, period.

Originally posted by leonidas
an argument can easily be raised regarding your 'weakened' surfer theory. if you show the full scan, as opposed to the cropped one, you'll see the other elders suggest it's nothing more than his bruised ego that is talking, that he's making nothing more than a face-saving comment regarding runner's easy win over ss and his own loss. if you look at champ's fight against norrin, it is pretty clear ss didn't exactly have to push himself to win what was a very brief battle. even his battle against korvac was extremely brief. in short--take champ at his word if you must, but ss has fought FAR harder for FAR greater amounts of time against equally powerful opponents and not been considered 'weakened'. the other elders seem to agree with me.

as regards to invulnerability, he can't die. we've no real proof of the level of power that it would take to actually ko him, but he is certainly far above ss's level IMO. that opinion is bolstered by ss's own admission of such, not only against runner, but also against obliterator. he very specifically says obliterator's power is beyond him and obliterator agrees that ss's power cosmic is meaningless to him. that is why ss HAD to change his weapons. he couldn't win any other way. even thanos recently with his faux cube could do no more than banish the elders. and while it wasn't a true cube, it WAS exceptionally powerful.

in speed--sure supes has dozens of uber speed feats. but i'll take runner still. barring that pis-laden quasar arc of course where the speed of light was considered ultimate speed. lol too much versatility for runner. tp, emotional control, uber cosmic power well above ss, speed, intangibility, easily able to amp strength to cl100+ levels.....

i won't go feat-for-feat for obvious reasons. and me and everyone else on the forum already knows that nothing i or anyone else will say will change your stance in this, but those are MY opinions on runner and why i believe he is above both these guys.

Bravo. This is real debating.

He's more than a class above them and here's why

he has matter manipulation on a planetary scale, neither superman nor adam have any variation of matter manipulation, im not sure if he can make something out of nothing, but he can certainly change entire structures of objects ie. Water to rock, rock to water. Theoretically he could click his fingers and turn supermans cape to kryptonite, but thats boring, so lets have a look at other reasons he can beat these too, dont forget he has powerful matter manip powers at his disposal

He's a speedster, but hes not grounded, meaning unlike a flash, he can combat superman or any other flying opponent in flight or on ground, his speed varies between the two but nonetheless hes faster than adam and superman.

Hes very very strong, hes far above class 100 again unlike flash who has top human strength, above the likes of thor, hulk etc

he ruined thanos via speedblitz, thanos managed to trick him though, by turning him to an old man by using the time gem, he would of destroyed thanos if he had not listened to thanos story to stop him from beating him down
Death has banished him from her realm so that no force or injury no matter how severe he will not perish to the realm of the dead
his primordial blasts are more powerful than surfers cosmic blasts(able to level large citys) so im betting his blasts are gonna do some damage here
Hes a beast, able to wreck thanos an surfer with ease (surfer fight was abit shitty an unimpressive) hes more than capable than pwning superman an black adam
they will probably like it aswell
he is also enhanced by the power primordial>>>>>>>>power cosmic and can enhance his abilities like strength,blasts and molecular manipulation evem further then they already are, the runner takes this 10/10 im betting the runner could go at it with odin judging by thanos gettin an ass beatin

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
He's more than a class above them and here's why

he has matter manipulation on a planetary scale, neither superman nor adam have any variation of matter manipulation, im not sure if he can make something out of nothing, but he can certainly change entire structures of objects ie. Water to rock, rock to water. Theoretically he could click his fingers and turn supermans cape to kryptonite, but thats boring, so lets have a look at other reasons he can beat these too, dont forget he has powerful matter manip powers at his disposal

He's a speedster, but hes not grounded, meaning unlike a flash, he can combat superman or any other flying opponent in flight or on ground, his speed varies between the two but nonetheless hes faster than adam and superman.

Hes very very strong, hes far above class 100 again unlike flash who has top human strength, above the likes of thor, hulk etc

he ruined thanos via speedblitz, thanos managed to trick him though, by turning him to an old man by using the time gem, he would of destroyed thanos if he had not listened to thanos story to stop him from beating him down
Death has banished him from her realm so that no force or injury no matter how severe he will not perish to the realm of the dead
his primordial blasts are more powerful than surfers cosmic blasts(able to level large citys) so im betting his blasts are gonna do some damage here
Hes a beast, able to wreck thanos an surfer with ease (surfer fight was abit shitty an unimpressive) hes more than capable than pwning superman an black adam
they will probably like it aswell
he is also enhanced by the power primordial>>>>>>>>power cosmic and can enhance his abilities like strength,blasts and molecular manipulation evem further then they already are, the runner takes this 10/10 im betting the runner could go at it with odin judging by thanos gettin an ass beatin also, intangibility is one i forgot

Originally posted by leonidas
an argument can easily be raised regarding your 'weakened' surfer theory. if you show the full scan, as opposed to the cropped one, you'll see the other elders suggest it's nothing more than his bruised ego that is talking, that he's making nothing more than a face-saving comment regarding runner's easy win over ss and his own loss. if you look at champ's fight against norrin, it is pretty clear ss didn't exactly have to push himself to win what was a very brief battle. even his battle against korvac was extremely brief. in short--take champ at his word if you must, but ss has fought FAR harder for FAR greater amounts of time against equally powerful opponents and not been considered 'weakened'. the other elders seem to agree with me.
Leo, I think a case can be made for either view. This is the full scan :
http://s15.postimg.org/w0k62tbzb/boastfact.jpg
Champion was right, Surfer did fight him then Korvac THEN went up against the Runner. But like you said, another Elder (Collector?) said he was just saying that to save face.

IMHO what settles this argument is that an amped Champion faced off vs Surfer later and Surfer would have still beat him (but Mephisto/Nova went and got Dumb Drax to do it because he/she knew Surfer didn't want to hurt champion).

i already said an argument for his position could be made.... if he wants to accept champ's word, i don't care. just know that it is equally likely he was speaking from the position of a bruised ego.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
power primordial>>>>>>>>power cosmic>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>power of the sun.

Originally posted by leonidas
i already said an argument for his position could be made.... if he wants to accept champ's word, i don't care. just know that it is equally likely he was speaking from the position of a bruised ego.

Not only that, I think it is significant that Surfer himself said NOTHING about him being weakened or tired from battle, nor did he think it based on the panel. He asked himself is Runner's power could be stronger, period. This is being overlooked.

And when taken in context with Conteplator's comments about Champion's bruised ego , the message is quite clear. Champions was clearly trying to make himself feel better about his loss by saying that Surfer was weakened, which is battle board speak. Surfer himself all but stated that Runner's power is simply greater.

Originally posted by leonidas
i already said an argument for his position could be made.... if he wants to accept champ's word, i don't care. just know that it is equally likely he was speaking from the position of a bruised ego.
Yup, I understand and that's why I said this :

Surfer >>>> Champion (even an amped one) yet Runner beat him with seeming ease.

Ego, Grandmaster, Runner are the elite among the Elders and are comfortably above herald level.

ah.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yup, I understand and that's why I said this :

Surfer >>>> Champion (even an amped one) yet Runner beat him with seeming ease.

Ego, Grandmaster, Runner are the elite among the Elders and are comfortably above herald level. ABC logic doesn't fly here. Not only do characters job (both Champion and Surfer job) but it is how you beat a character that matters and not the fact that you beat them.

Runner out muscled Surfer. This isn't a good feat because there are lots of heralds stronger than Surfer. Also Surfer was said to be weakened. You can't ignore that.

Beating Surfer in that way has no bearing on how Superman would beat him solo.

Superman wouldnt stand a chance imho

So you guys are basing that runner can beat Superman alone because of him defeating Surfer by holding his hand? Obviously Runner didn't want Surfer to blast him because Surfer blasts would hurt him. Otherwise, why prevent him?

Lastly, defeating Surfer doesn't mean you can defeat Superman. That's faulty ABC logic.
Superman would knock runner out.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Superman wouldnt stand a chance imho based off nothing.
Superman has feats that shit on runner all day, including speed.

Based on my mega post earlier on, high showings arent everything, implied power and stature also come into play, imo the flash would hand supes his ass, the runner is basically a flash on steroids, far beyomd c100 strength, can travel almost instantly to any point of the universe, can own thanos easily(thats a good feat considering thanos nearly killed surfer with a few punches) only to be pis phucked (cant destroy the character the whole arc is about can you)

at the end of the day, The runner is leaps and bounds ahead of both supes and adam

Originally posted by h1a8
ABC logic doesn't fly here. Not only do characters job (both Champion and Surfer job) but it is how you beat a character that matters and not the fact that you beat them.

Runner out muscled Surfer. This isn't a good feat because there are lots of heralds stronger than Surfer. Also Surfer was said to be weakened. You can't ignore that.

Beating Surfer in that way has no bearing on how Superman would beat him solo.
What are you talking about? We aren't going by ABC logic here we are going by COMMON FOE argument.

Surfer and Champion fought twice. Champion lost the first time and an AMPED Champion was LOSING the second time. So Champion claiming the only reason Runner won was because Surfer was weakened is SUSPECT.

Runner beat Surfer straight up.

So going by their COMMON FOE, Runner>>>Surfer>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Champion.

One way i could see this going down

superman and adam are on there way to confront the runner, the runner has been spotted charging towards them by supes due to super speed vision(what ever) as he tells adam to brace himself adam disapears asif its a poof of smoke,the runner and adam are poofing all over the place adam is then launched at supes but clark dodges him, adam is bloodied and unconsious, he turns back to the runner who is no were to be seen, clark then realizes he cannot stop smiling even though he is angry, then in literally lquicker than a blink superman gets upper cutted into earths higher atmosphere, the runner squares of with supes, then after a little scuffle the runner using his cosmic awareness and primordial powers senses the increasing solar radiation coming from clarks body, he then puts two am two together and realizes superman gains power from absorbing radiation from the yellow star, using his vast almost instant speed he transports him an supes to different regions of the universe in front of different stars, after a 10 minute fighting session, come across a red star, superman becomes astronomically weaker and runner begins to toy with him, then out of no were somehow adam had found them, he sucker punches runner who applauds adam on his efforts to save his friend, adam is then pasted and launched into the red sun, the runner can feel supermans heart and spirit, pulling through against all odds, he smirks at superman and tells him he loves a challenge, using his vast molecular manipulation powers he gives his cape the mass/density of a large planet, with adam dead and superman almost slug like to the runner, he realizes supermans tremendous strength, heart an spirtit will not be broken, he goes at clark with every ounce of power hes got for one final blow, enhancing his speed and strength beyond measure using his control over the power primordial, implants his fist into clarks face, causing shockwaves and ripples through out the milky way, supermans limp body drifted away, and a blurred line of fine gold vanished.

thats just being generous, the runner would of ended them in the first paragraph

Originally posted by tkitna
Marvel says he's a matter manipulator also (cant remember an example without pulling the books), but thats not hard to accept with a character that has tapped the Power Primordial and obtains the power cosmic. he was seemingly able to make moondragon immune to walking on a star(?)

http://imageshack.us/a/img14/2539/defenders14317.jpg

Implied power wont work with the Superman camp here. You better have a concrete feat or its an easy win for Superman. I dont buy the weakened Surfer theory either, but its here nor there. I will never believe that Superman (even with Adam) can beat the Runner.

Its a shame that Marvel allowed Gruenwalds silly story to even be published. All he was doing was stroking his love for Barry Allen (Buried Allen, yeah takes a real sleuth to figure that out) and low balling the Runner in it. I hold that story with about as much faith as I do a story like She-Hulk beating the Champion cause she worked out, or Spiderman beating up Firelord. Yeah, it was good for a laugh or two, but everybody should know better.

he didn't lowball him. the race was for running, not full flight speed. runner set up the rules so that competitors would be disqualified if their feet didn't hit the ground every 50,00 feet or something like that, for him that crossed the line into flight. the point is, runner has no issue catching surfer, skimming the "skin of galaxies", or that thanos incident when his rules don't apply.

him being relegated to sub-light speed running doesn't mean all his speed is the same, proof being when makkari learned the means to run at light speed to win the race, he was locked in hyper speed and only the runner and grandmaster 9time manip powers) could perceive him. makkari only gained that after he hit light speed, something he was unable to do prior, but runner had no issue with it.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
he was seemingly able to make moondragon immune to walking on a star(?)

http://imageshack.us/a/img14/2539/defenders14317.jpg

Holy crap! Good find.

The runner one shots adam then gives supermans cape the density of a neutron syar and speed blitz' him into dust

Originally posted by h1a8
ABC logic doesn't fly here. Not only do characters job (both Champion and Surfer job) but it is how you beat a character that matters and not the fact that you beat them.

Runner out muscled Surfer. This isn't a good feat because there are lots of heralds stronger than Surfer. Also Surfer was said to be weakened. You can't ignore that.

Beating Surfer in that way has no bearing on how Superman would beat him solo.

First, off, it's not ABC logic. Secondly, he didn't "out muscle Surfer" so you argument there is invalid. It was not a test of strenght, it was a test of power. If it were a test of strength, Surfer would have simply enhanced his strength. You need to get to know the character. Surfer can be as strong as he needs to be, but in this cases it was a comparison of power.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
First, off, it's not ABC logic. Secondly, he didn't "out muscle Surfer" so you argument there is invalid. It was not a test of strenght, it was a test of power. If it were a test of strength, Surfer would have simply enhanced his strength. You need to get to know the character. Surfer can be as strong as he needs to be, but in this cases it was a comparison of power. i agree, surfer tried to blast golden boy of his bored when the runner played abit of baseball with him(surfer was the ball and his board was the bat) and he didnt even flinch lol but i disagree that surfer could enhance his strength all he wants, the rummer would always be above him
power primordial >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> power cosmic

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
i agree, surfer tried to blast golden boy of his bored when the runner played abit of baseball with him(surfer was the ball and his board was the bat) and he didnt even flinch lol but i disagree that surfer could enhance his strength all he wants, the rummer would always be above him
power primordial >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> power cosmic
Not a chance.

"Power Primordial" wasn't enough to stop them from being eaten by Galactus (who is Power Cosmic).

As for Runner/Surfer. Surfer definitely wasn't in his right mind and he could have done a whole lot more (and it would definitely have affected Runner - Sufer's taken down more powerful opponents) but, Runner has him matched/beaten in speed, has him beaten in physical power and (so long as Surfer's jobbing) in intellect.

The elders nearly replaced the cosmic abstracts and reformed 616, imho power primordial > power cosmic
the runner out muscled surfer, out powered him and all in all, owned him the whole 'state of mind' thing is BS, the runner didnt even exert himself while surfet gave it his all and then got whooped

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
The elders nearly replaced the cosmic abstracts and reformed 616, imho power primordial > power cosmic
the runner out muscled surfer, out powered him and all in all, owned him the whole 'state of mind' thing is BS, the runner didnt even exert himself while surfet gave it his all and then got whooped
That "nearly" was worth nothing as Galactus basically killed them (Death's the only reason they're around).

Individually they're all over the place, from feeble old men like Gardener (clubbed by Savage Hulk, then robbed of his staff and gem) to paper tigers like Grandmaster (KO/killed by Rulk) and that cosmic cretin Champion.

Aside from Runner and maybe Ego (selective showings), they really are an embarrassment.

The Power Cosmic is far and away superior, it's the same source that fuels "Insane" Genis, that empowered Korvac and that makes Galactus the omniversal threat he is.


And re the "BS" about Surfer not being in his right mind, he even says so during the fight with Runner. That he should be angry, should hate him but can't help liking him.

It's part of Runner's powerset, but Surfer would be able to deal with it, if he was aware of it.

Still, I'm not saying Surfer would win many, just that he would make a proper fight of it.

Fair do's my man!

Yeah, the House of Odin and the House of El have en-camped on KMC VF.

The Church of Thanosianity is the religion of the locals and Speedblitz is the favoured local ale...

The Power Cosmic needs some representation, from time to time...

There is another aspect to all of this that would go in the Runner's favor. The elders LIVE for challenges. Superman and BA would be a challenge for Runner, one that he would eat up.

I seriously dont think adam would propose any sort of threat at all, and considering everything the runner is capable of, hebwould more thank likely end superman

The Runner should win this.

Just to chime in.
Surfer was pretty upset with Runner toying with him

http://m20.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/VoltronForce/runnersurfer3.jpg.html


http://m20.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/voltronforce/runnersurfer3.jpg.html

Originally posted by Inhuman
Just to chime in.
Surfer was pretty upset with Runner toying with him

http://m20.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/VoltronForce/runnersurfer3.jpg.html


http://m20.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/voltronforce/runnersurfer3.jpg.html

picture was messed up :/
lets try again.



http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/VoltronForce/runnersurfer3.jpg

As a rule of thumb, the more upset the Surfer is, the less he talks about it.

That's just his standard issue "you vile fiend! I shall smiii... oops, forgot, the footy's on, bye"...

Originally posted by janus77
As a rule of thumb, the more upset the Surfer is, the less he talks about it.

That's just his standard issue "you vile fiend! I shall smiii... oops, forgot, the footy's on, bye"...

Originally posted by Inhuman
picture was messed up :/
lets try again.



http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/VoltronForce/runnersurfer3.jpg

LMAO at the panel of him jacking Surfer's board.

Epic trolling right there lol

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
First, off, it's not ABC logic. Secondly, he didn't "out muscle Surfer" so you argument there is invalid. It was not a test of strenght, it was a test of power. If it were a test of strength, Surfer would have simply enhanced his strength. You need to get to know the character. Surfer can be as strong as he needs to be, but in this cases it was a comparison of power. I don't know what you been smoking but Surfer tried to blast Runner and Runner held his arms by force to prevent it. It showed Runner being physically stronger. Also it implied that Runner could be hurt from Surfer's blast.

Superman's feats shit on that display. There is no way based off that Runner is beating Superman.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't know what you been smoking but Surfer tried to blast Runner and Runner held his arms by force to prevent it. It showed Runner being physically stronger. Also it implied that Runner could be hurt from Surfer's blast.

Superman's feats shit on that display. There is no way based off that Runner is beating Superman.

I don't smoke, but you make me want to start. You know about the scene because I posted it. And it's not a test of physical strength IMO being that Surfer said Runner's POWER, not strength, is greater than his. Surfer has strength, but he isn't a strength based character.

Originally posted by leonidas
an argument can easily be raised regarding your 'weakened' surfer theory. if you show the full scan, as opposed to the cropped one, you'll see the other elders suggest it's nothing more than his bruised ego that is talking, that he's making nothing more than a face-saving comment regarding runner's easy win over ss and his own loss. if you look at champ's fight against norrin, it is pretty clear ss didn't exactly have to push himself to win what was a very brief battle. even his battle against korvac was extremely brief. in short--take champ at his word if you must, but ss has fought FAR harder for FAR greater amounts of time against equally powerful opponents and not been considered 'weakened'. the other elders seem to agree with me.

as regards to invulnerability, he can't die. we've no real proof of the level of power that it would take to actually ko him, but he is certainly far above ss's level IMO. that opinion is bolstered by ss's own admission of such, not only against runner, but also against obliterator. he very specifically says obliterator's power is beyond him and obliterator agrees that ss's power cosmic is meaningless to him. that is why ss HAD to change his weapons. he couldn't win any other way. even thanos recently with his faux cube could do no more than banish the elders. and while it wasn't a true cube, it WAS exceptionally powerful.

in speed--sure supes has dozens of uber speed feats. but i'll take runner still. barring that pis-laden quasar arc of course where the speed of light was considered ultimate speed. lol too much versatility for runner. tp, emotional control, uber cosmic power well above ss, speed, intangibility, easily able to amp strength to cl100+ levels.....

i won't go feat-for-feat for obvious reasons. and me and everyone else on the forum already knows that nothing i or anyone else will say will change your stance in this, but those are MY opinions on runner and why i believe he is above both these guys.
I don't have to guess here who was right or wrong, I take the writing as proof. If there was a claim that Surfer was weakened, it was there for a reason. I've never seen surfer nearly die from falling to a planet and needing to be healed by someone like Mantis.

Even though he's never taken any attacks of that caliber? We're assigning durability on random? Really? Here is Runner trapped in a black hole and unable to escape untill Galactus saves his and Elders' collective asses

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/15417321_SS_v3_009_14a_zps6f32b324.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/15417322_SS_v3_009_14b_zps4ceb7f9c.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/15417323_SS_v3_009_15b_zps9032f545.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/15417324_SS_v3_009_16b_zpsa306f7a4.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/15417325_SS_v3_009_17a_zps6821d593.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/15417326_SS_v3_010_03a_zps6798bc21.jpg

Say that is PIS too, why don't you? The fact is that Englehart didn't write either Surfer or Runner with lightspeed reactions. You can call everything PIS which doesn't suits your purpose but that wouldn't be truth.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Unbunch you panties, dude. You really should stop getting all emotionally involved about something that doesn't exist.
Haha, what?

Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't have to guess here who was right or wrong, I take the writing as proof. If there was a claim that what champion said was just his bruised ego talking, it was there for a reason. I've never seen surfer nearly die from falling to a planet and needing to be healed by someone like Mantis.

fixed.



never taken attacks of that caliber? lolwut? i could list the guys ss fought and beat prior to that book but that is basic knowledge. if you think he never took attacks of the caliber of.....champion punching him maybe 3 times? well, you should drop out of the thread. seriously. and i've seen ss ko'd by a friggin laser gun. he has FAR worse showings than that.

black holes are at times portrayed as uber, other times superman holds them in his hand. not sure what your point is. ss himself (who has also been shown to be able to easily escape black holes) was ALSO about to die. hell, even galactus was going to die. malestrom created a black hole that even the combined watchers and celestials couldn't stop. grandmaster was also going to be lost and he's displayed uber reality warping powers nearly on par with a skyfather. of course, the elders would have been fine because they, you know, couldn't DIE.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/15417321_SS_v3_009_14a_zps6f32b324.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/15417322_SS_v3_009_14b_zps4ceb7f9c.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/15417323_SS_v3_009_15b_zps9032f545.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/15417324_SS_v3_009_16b_zpsa306f7a4.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/15417325_SS_v3_009_17a_zps6821d593.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/15417326_SS_v3_010_03a_zps6798bc21.jpg



again, so? if one writer views things differently that's his perogative. it doesn't render null and void previously established abilities. if you really want to go ahead and think runner can't reach the speed of light, welllll......good for you. it's a terrible stance but you can pick and choose to accept that like you can pick and choose to accept champ's word. you just have a huge problem acknowledging that other viewpoints are equally possible. maybe one day......

if you really want to go ahead and think runner can't reach the speed of light, welllll......good for you. it's a terrible stance but you can pick and choose to accept that like you can pick and choose to accept champ's word. you just have a huge problem acknowledging that other viewpoints are equally possible. maybe one day......

Let's just say he has discriminating tastes.

Let's put an end to the Champion stuff now. Champion recovers from Thanos' humiliation. Finds a new amp "Bracelets of Power" and goes seeking revenge on Thanos. Thanos tps him away to some lifeless world and in anger Champion busts the planet :
http://s18.postimg.org/yxdcp0ctx/planet.jpg
Surfer and Mephisto/Nova come across this destruction and find Champion is the cause of it. Surfer asks how did he do this since he doesn't have the Power Gem anymore and Champion explains his new amp :
http://s18.postimg.org/il3az9yid/planet2.jpg
This suggests that Champion sans power up is NOT a planet buster. But it gets better.

They fight and Nova sees that this is going nowhere finds PG Drax and he one shots Champion. When Surfer asks why she did this (getting Drax), she suggests that she knows Surfer was holding back because he didn't want to hurt Champion but Drax has no such qualms :
http://s18.postimg.org/jm3joefhx/surfer_mercy.jpg
Champion is NO match for the Surfer even with an amp (the Bracelets) so Champion was talking sh|t when he said Runner only beat Surfer because Surfer was weak from fighting him or Korvac.

Originally posted by zopzop
Let's put an end to the Champion stuff now. Champion recovers from Thanos' humiliation. Finds a new amp "Bracelets of Power" and goes seeking revenge on Thanos. Thanos tps him away to some lifeless world and in anger Champion busts the planet :
http://s18.postimg.org/yxdcp0ctx/planet.jpg
Surfer and Mephisto/Nova come across this destruction and find Champion is the cause of it. Surfer asks how did he do this since he doesn't have the Power Gem anymore and Champion explains his new amp :
http://s18.postimg.org/il3az9yid/planet2.jpg
This suggests that Champion sans power up is NOT a planet buster. But it gets better.

They fight and Nova sees that this is going nowhere finds PG Drax and he one shots Champion. When Surfer asks why she did this (getting Drax), she suggests that she knows Surfer was holding back because he didn't want to hurt Champion but Drax has no such qualms :
http://s18.postimg.org/jm3joefhx/surfer_mercy.jpg
Champion is NO match for the Surfer even with an amp (the Bracelets) so Champion was talking sh|t when he said Runner only beat Surfer because Surfer was weak from fighting him or Korvac.



Good find my man, Champion was definitely trying to save face. It's all right there in pictures and print. Burden met.

Also, notice on the last panel how Nova says that Surfer would be a god with the bracelets.

Yeah, She-Hulk alone beat the crap out of Champion after he gave up the gem.

He's a joke w/o it these days.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, She-Hulk alone beat the crap out of Champion after he gave up the gem.

He's a joke w/o it.
In Champion's defense though, that fight took place in a She-Hulk comic and those things are more PIS/CIS ridden than Deadpool's crap.

Keep in mind Champion without the Gem, beat the crap out of many Marvel bricks in Marvel Two-in-One Annual #7.

Originally posted by leonidas
fixed. Do you have any evidence that this was just bruised ego talking?



Yes. I was talking about Runner's showings of durability. He took a single blast from a guy who was holding back due to Runner's charms. Why? So Runner=a laser gun? BTW that showing happened under the same writer.

They were simply not fast enough to escape that.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/16448362_SS_v3_015_07b.jpg

It was just a matter of speed.


BTW Surfer has failed to get out of black holes three times. When did Surfer escape a black hole? It was just a normal black hole after Nova collapsed that sun.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/16448360_SS_v3_009_13b.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/15417321_SS_v3_009_14a_zps6f32b324.jpg


Because he was too weak at that point as infinity gems drained him. A special black hole. It was a normal black hole which consumed elders and surfer. They could die in that realm as explained by Reed later. Elders couldn't get out of the black hole.




It does. in defenders 143 which you are talking about, it was explained that if Runner stops even for a moment he would die. That's obviously not the case in his later appearances. I'm not thinking anything. Runner failed to achieve lightspeed twice. So, let me get this straight. You ignore Gruenwald's depiction of Runner because its PIS, you ignore Runner unable to achieve lightspeed under Englehart well because you can just ignore anything you don't like about a character and then arguing that Runner beats this team based upon the same writer's depiction of Runner? What kind of hypocrisy is that? If we ignore both Englehart's depiction of Runner and Gruenwald's too, we're only left with Starlin's runner and Runner from Defenders 143, which have no feats to beat this team. Unless you think walking on Sun's surface makes you unbeatable to Superman and Black Adam.

Originally posted by zopzop
Let's put an end to the Champion stuff now. Champion recovers from Thanos' humiliation. Finds a new amp "Bracelets of Power" and goes seeking revenge on Thanos. Thanos tps him away to some lifeless world and in anger Champion busts the planet :
http://s18.postimg.org/yxdcp0ctx/planet.jpg
Surfer and Mephisto/Nova come across this destruction and find Champion is the cause of it. Surfer asks how did he do this since he doesn't have the Power Gem anymore and Champion explains his new amp :
http://s18.postimg.org/il3az9yid/planet2.jpg
This suggests that Champion sans power up is NOT a planet buster. But it gets better.

They fight and Nova sees that this is going nowhere finds PG Drax and he one shots Champion. When Surfer asks why she did this (getting Drax), she suggests that she knows Surfer was holding back because he didn't want to hurt Champion but Drax has no such qualms :
http://s18.postimg.org/jm3joefhx/surfer_mercy.jpg
Champion is NO match for the Surfer even with an amp (the Bracelets) so Champion was talking sh|t when he said Runner only beat Surfer because Surfer was weak from fighting him or Korvac.

not that it will mean much to abhi, but, yeah. champ was was talking chump.

Originally posted by zopzop
In Champion's defense though, that fight took place in a She-Hulk comic and those things are more PIS/CIS ridden than Deadpool's crap.

Keep in mind Champion without the Gem, beat the crap out of many Marvel bricks in Marvel Two-in-One Annual #7.

That's why I edited my post to read: "He's a joke w/o it these days", because you're right-- back in the day Champ was beastly.

Originally posted by Galan007


That's why I edited my post to read: "He's a joke w/o it these days", because you're right-- back in the day Champ was beastly.
Oh I agree. Nowadays he's a joke like the rest of the Elders . Marvel really needs to get their sh|t together fast.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Do you have any evidence that this was just bruised ego talking?



Champion is not the only bruised ego present.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I don't smoke, but you make me want to start. You know about the scene because I posted it. And it's not a test of physical strength IMO being that Surfer said Runner's POWER, not strength, is greater than his. Surfer has strength, but he isn't a strength based character. Strength and power are the same thing in particular context. Doesn't matter because what is shown is what we go by.

My point is that scene alone doesn't justify Runner beating Superman considering Superman's feats.

Originally posted by h1a8
Strength and power are the same thing in particular context. Doesn't matter because what is shown is what we go by.

My point is that scene alone doesn't justify Runner beating Superman considering Superman's feats.

And again, it's not that scene alone being used to formulate people's opinions. In his few appearances, The Runner's portrayal is above the herald tier. I don't know what that is so hard for you to accept.

Originally posted by leonidas
not that it will mean much to abhi, but, yeah. champ was was talking chump.
Haha, really?Originally posted by Blue Area Vet


Champion is not the only bruised ego present.
Have you nothing else to do other than following me around?

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
If the Runner is anywhere near serious, this is not a contest. They only touch him if he wants them to. And unlike Flash, he has class 100 strength and is not grounded. Do you people just make this stuff up.
1)Elders of the universe are not universally class 100+ in strength.
2) Speed force travel is not limited by ground travel. It's essentially a dimension in and of itself consisting of pure kinetic energy.
3) At least as far as the Flash's go their hitting power is not based on their physical strength in fact they can cause their fists to increase their mass near infinitely by accelerating their fists towards lightspeed so strength is moot in the comparison.
4) That said I don't think that the team could catch runner but if Runner gets tagged by anything from the pair its going to hurt.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
And again, it's not that scene alone being used to formulate people's opinions. In his few appearances, The Runner's portrayal is above the herald tier. I don't know what that is so hard for you to accept. Portrayals? You mean ABC logic? Characters job or vary in comics.
What about feats?
What other showings convinces you that Runner can beat Superman?