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What's your top ten sith list? Please don't put 2 incarnations of the same character (sid for example)

1. Darth Sidious (DE)
2. Lord Vitiate as of swtor (i've finally succumbed)
3. Darth Nihilus
4. Darth Caedus
5. Exar Kun
6. Darth Vader
7. Emperor's Wrath/darth Nox
8. Emperor's Wrath/darth Nox
9. Darth Bane
10. Darth Jadus

Im probably missing some1, so don't blame me

1-5. Bandon.
6. Revan.
7. Bane.
8. Kas'im.
9-10. Bandon.

lol

1. Darth Sidious
2. Darth Plagueis
3. Emperor Vitiate
4. Darth Caedus
5. Darth Bane
6. Darth Nihilus
7. Darth Nox
8. Darth Revan
9. Exar Kun
10. Darth Vader

It pleases me to see Darth Nox and the Emperors Wrath on peoples lists.

Needs more Tulak Hord tho.

Because he has lots of feats and showings.

han, why is darth revan on your list then? he has no feats or showings lol

Edir: DAMN i knew i missed plagueis

'cause Revan's the heart of the Force.

Ok Master Han, you say Palpatine is the most powerful(which is correct), but you say Windu would beat Palpatine most of the time(LOL) which means by your logic Windu>All Sith which is retarded since Sidious would have killed Windu almost as easy as Fisto, Tiin, or Kolar.

Anyways here's my list.

1.Darth Sidious
2.Darth Plagueis
3.Darth Krayt
4.Exar Kun
5.Darth Cadeus(maybe put him at 3)
6.Sith Emperor
7.Darth Bane(Orbalisks)
8.Tulak Hord
9.Darth Vader
10.Emperors Wrath

yeah caedus > kun and probably krayt as well

Vitiate, Nihilus, Sidious, Plagueis, Krayt and Bane, Caedus, Kun, Nox, Vader...

What criteria by which are we ranking these guys?

combat power

My list would depend entirely on whether we would accept unverified legends, fables, and myths about certain characters to be true.

Ooooh, I'd love to see that list! Do it do it do it!

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Ok Master Han, you say Palpatine is the most powerful(which is correct), but you say Windu would beat Palpatine most of the time(LOL) which means by your logic Windu>All Sith which is retarded since Sidious would have killed Windu almost as easy as Fisto, Tiin, or Kolar.


I sense intense, intoxicating quantities of circular logic here.







Too low, actually.

Plaguies above Vitiate? Really? For nearly atomizing some defenseless adversaries?

Only the top list makes some sense but even that falls short on accuracy front. The other lists are utterly lame.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Plaguies above Vitiate? Really? For nearly atomizing some defenseless adversaries?
Plagueis is also much, much faster and vastly more skilled with a saber than Vitiate. Has impressive strength feats and some of the most potent esoteric powers in the mythos like midi-chlorian manipulation and unbalancing the Force with his will (albeit after ritual).

Originally posted by Stigma
Plagueis is also much, much faster and vastly more skilled with a saber than Vitiate. Has impressive strength feats and some of the most potent esoteric powers in the mythos like midi-chlorian manipulation and unbalancing the Force with his will (albeit after ritual).
First of all, it cannot be verified that Plagueis is supposedly faster then Vitiate. Reason is that speed feats are not easily quantifiable and we don't have much information about speed of Vitiate. However, it is apparent from the track record of Vitiate that he have never been blitzed during his long span of existence and this more then sufficient indication that Vitiate is incredibly fast.

In addition, Plagueis unbalanced The Force with aid of Palpatine. This objective was accomplished after a ritual spanning months; very impressive accomplishment indeed but neither Plagueis and nor Sidious deserve credit for this accomplishment on their own.

As far as accomplishments and Force abilities of Vitiate are concerned, check this thread for answers.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Plaguies above Vitiate? Really? For nearly atomizing some defenseless adversaries?


Firstly, both the omniscient narrator and Palpatine himself considered Plagueis to be the most powerful sith lord in history (until Sidious's own ascent).

Secondly, Plagueis's manipulation of the Force exceeds anything Vitiate's ever done.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
In addition, Plagueis unbalanced The Force with aid of Palpatine. This objective was accomplished after a ritual spanning months; very impressive accomplishment indeed but neither Plagueis and nor Sidious deserve credit for this accomplishment on their own.


Please don't add fanon into the evidence; they did not use a "ritual spanning months", they meditated for months. There's a pretty concrete difference, and it certainly comes out as more impressive than all of Vitiate's significant dabblings in the Force, which involve outright alchemy and plenty of willing and unwilling participants.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You are ignoring the ambiguity factor in the matters of speed.

We know that Sidious is very fast since he blitzed some skilled Jedi Masters. However, we CANNOT just assume by default that Sidious will manage to blitz every individual barring Mace, Luke and Yoda in history. Sidious didn't blitz Maul and Opress either.


You apply precisely the opposite logic to evaluating Nyax.

Originally posted by Master Han
Firstly, both the omniscient narrator and Palpatine himself considered Plagueis to be the most powerful sith lord in history (until Sidious's own ascent).
It has become a fashion among the authors to hype characters in this manner. In addition, its not as if authors of SWTORE agree with opinion of Luceno. Notable evidence comes from SWTERC which represents real world perspective of Star Wars history and it doesn't confirms Plagueis's supposed superiority over Vitiate.

Holistic picture wise, Vitiate > Plagueis.

Originally posted by Master Han
Secondly, Plagueis's manipulation of the Force exceeds anything Vitiate's ever done.
Doubtful

Originally posted by Master Han
Please don't add fanon into the evidence; they did not use a "ritual spanning months", they meditated for months. There's a pretty concrete difference, and it certainly comes out as more impressive than all of Vitiate's significant dabblings in the Force, which involve outright alchemy and plenty of willing and unwilling participants.
What do you think rituals are like? Force-users meditate and channel the power of the Force for an objective in a ritual. In rituals, multiple Force-users are typically involved to complete an objective and the hinted act of Plagueis and Sidious fits the description.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What do you think rituals are like? Force-users meditate and channel the power of the Force for an objective in a ritual.

The word "ritual" implies the use of sith alchemy or some measure of exotic power. Sidious and Plagueis performed their feats through sheer force of will. And I think upsetting the Force itself over the course of months surpasses Vitiate's "I need hundreds of years and thousands of sith lords" feats.

Actually Vitiate just needed the destruction of a planet to fuel is 'OM NOM' plan.

Sidious is inarguably number one, and my personal list would include Vader, Tyranus, Maul, Vol, Ragnos, Vitiate, Kun, Plagueis.

Krayt, Caedus, Wyyrlok, Tenebrous, XoXaan, and Karness Muur probably qualify too.

Sidious, Vader, Ragnos, Vitiate, Plagueus, Krayt, Tyranus, Naga Sadow, Tulak Horde, Sith Emperor

EDIT: Notable mentions to, Nihilus, Kun, Revan and Muur

Vitiate and the Sith Emperor? :?

Place Muur instead of Emperor: sorted.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sidious is inarguably number one, and my personal list would include Vader, Tyranus, Maul, Vol, Ragnos, Vitiate, Kun, Plagueis.

Krayt, Caedus, Wyyrlok, Tenebrous, XoXaan, and Karness Muur probably qualify too.

Caedus is above Vader.

According to the publisher's summary of Invincible. As publisher's summaries do not constitute a novel's text and are notoriously unreliable, I do not consider them binding.

Though hardly binding, they still count as evidence and cannot be dismissed on a whim. Caedus has his share of impressive feats and accolades, particularly his performance against Luke in Inferno...there's no basis to dismiss the summary's text.

The publisher's summary for Specter of the Past by Timothy Zahn refers to dead!Thrawn as the New Republic's "most dangerous enemy yet."

Taken literally, that means dead!Thrawn is more dangerous than live!Thrawn and, perhaps more importantly, the reborn Emperor.

Publisher's summaries have never been identified as canon sources. I disregard them, no matter what books they are and what they say.

Top 10 for me is: Sidious, Vitiate, Caedus, Vader, Plagueis, Marka, Dooku, Maul, Exar Kun, Traya. If not Traya then switch her with Naga Sadow.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The publisher's summary for Specter of the Past by Timothy Zahn refers to dead!Thrawn as the New Republic's "most dangerous enemy yet."

Taken literally, that means dead!Thrawn is more dangerous than live!Thrawn and, perhaps more importantly, the reborn Emperor.

Publisher's summaries have never been identified as canon sources. I disregard them, no matter what books they are and what they say.

Well, he has Skywalker blood in him (without a massive crippling), has been trained in the Force longer than Vader (without the suit inhibition/setback), and can take on his uncle, whereas Vader did not feel confident in taking RotS Sidious on even with Marek's help. As of RotJ, Luke has already evenly matched him in bladework, whereas there is little doubt that Caedus could dispatch his younger uncle in a matter of seconds. I'd still put him above Vader.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Top 10 for me is: Sidious, Vitiate, Caedus, Vader, Plagueis, Marka, Dooku, Maul, Exar Kun, Traya. If not Traya then switch her with Naga Sadow.

Vader above Plagueis?

Vader/Plagueisis debatable. Vader has better force feats such as throwing around V-wings, blasting through stone walls like nothing, tanking bombs directly going off on his face, getting back up from force lightning from Galen, casually force pushes people like Celeste Morne, lifts and crushes huge droids like nothing, amongst other feats although those are the ones I can name off the top of my head. Oh, and one of his accolades is from Sidious, who claims that he is the strongest Force user he's seen besides himself.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Oh, and one of his accolades is from Sidious, who claims that he is the strongest Force user he's seen besides himself.

Really? Where?

Can't remember the source, I think it was Star Wars: The Visual dictionary or another sourcebook. Seen it claimed on multiple places as well.

^that would make him stronger than Yoda.

Seriously, if such a quote exists it would seriously shake up our perceptions of the hierarchy. O_O

yeah, vader is alot stronger than people give him credit for (one of his most impressive feats was walking into a room full of jedi masters while he was still getting used to his suit, at least i think he was, and ended up killing 5 of them. prty impressive if u ask me)

Originally posted by Allankles
Sidious, Vader, Ragnos, Vitiate, Plagueus, Krayt, Tyranus, Naga Sadow, Tulak Horde, Sith Emperor

EDIT: Notable mentions to, Nihilus, Kun, Revan and Muur

I do like this list, but I wanna comment I wish we got to see more of Naga in action without his ship. I mean, he did big stuff in the comic, but largely using the ship as a force booster, and a sith apprentice with the same ship later replicated the big feats, saying it wasn't primarily Naga's power that did it.




Woot, remembering some of the hundred-year-darkness lords

Originally posted by Q99
I wouldn't go that far- we've seen the trio elsewhere. Of the three, Fisto was the most impressive, and in the novel he himself said he'd be more comfortable if Kenobi and Plo Koon were there, not even Fisto considered the trio the best in the order at the time, let alone all time.

That said, blitzing Fisto + two other highly skilled fighters before Windu could save them is still very impressive.

Well, the trio is identified as "celebrated swordsmen." Nevertheless, that Kenobi/Koon > Kolar/Tiin does not mean that the latter are not highly impressive and are not an elite of saber fighters in the Jedi history. It does mean that Kenobi and Koon are still better, which is mind-blowing.
Either way, as you said, this speed feat is highly impressive.

Originally posted by Q99


Savage was at a point giving hell to Anakin/Kenobi/Ventress.

Personally, I'd guess they're mostly counting post-Ruusian history, which is how ones of their level get so highly praised even though we the readers know so many great duelists from earlier eras. Before 1,000 years before, records get shakier and Jedi of the time wouldn't have as much precise data (only counting that span after the records were lost, mind, still puts them at some of the more celebrated in the last 1k years! Good amount of war experience).

Why would the records be lost? It's not like the Jedi were nearly wiped out during the NSW nor was their temple raided.

It was Yoda and, to a lesser extent, Obi-Wan that Kit mentioned in ROTS.

And there's no reason for it to refer to only the prior millennia.

Not in order.

Feat wise: Sidious, Plagueis, Vader, orbalisk Bane, Tyranus, Caedus, Maul, Krayt, Malgus, Zannah/Tenebrous

Power scaling: Sidious, Plagueis, Vitiate, Bane, Vader, Caedus, Nihilus, Tyranus, Malgus, Zannah

Vitiate isn't even on the Feat list?

Ghey. He's better than ****ing Maul at least.

well, he lacks the neccesary skill/speed feats. but he's hard to place

He's easily placed in the loser category.

y u hate on vitiate

My own Top 8 atm would be: Sidious, Plagueis, Vitiate, Bane, Nihilus, Tulak Hord, Exar Kun, Krayt.

After that I'm torn between Vader, Marka Ragnos, Zannah, Malgus and Nox for the last two. Maybe Caedus, though no-one's yet changed my mind about him. sneer

Honorable mentions to the Emperors Wrath, Nyriss, Jadus, Uliq Qel'Droma, the First Son, Baras, Wyyrlok, Tyrannus and Karness Muur. Also the Dread Masters but obvs they don't count.

is that top one in order neph?

Edit: caedus is probably top 5, tho i doubt i can change your mind.

No. If it was Tulak Hord the Omnimagnificent would be at the front.

Why should he be in the top 5?

He could use Shatterpoint, Lightning and Choke instinctively, Aing-Tii Fighting-sight, the memory-rub technique, He could also project near perfect illusions of others in the mind of the viewer, He even briefly transformed into the most powerful manifestation of the force ever recorded when he achieved oneness, he could even probe the future, a far more advanced version of Precognition, He could actively bend the will of other powerful force users, all but his uncle, Vergere considered him the Jedi dream and the Jedi even believed Luke to be the only jedi who could compare to and defeat Jacen, and this was before his turn to the Dark Side.

Edit: plus he was only defeated by Jaina, the sword of the jedi, when he only had one arm, and he coulda killed her despite all this, but he opted not to.

Bane really shouldn't be in the top 10. If we're going by feats alone, then I need to put that random ass Jedi from the Clone Wars miniseries in the top 10 for holding a Venator-class Star Destroyer aloft with her TK.

yeah caedus and arguably vader > bane

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Bane really shouldn't be in the top 10. If we're going by feats alone, then I need to put that random ass Jedi from the Clone Wars miniseries in the top 10 for holding a Venator-class Star Destroyer aloft with her TK.

Not if it was a one time thing. Which, incidentally, it seemed to be.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
He could use Shatterpoint, Lightning and Choke instinctively, Aing-Tii Fighting-sight, the memory-rub technique, He could also project near perfect illusions of others in the mind of the viewer, He even briefly transformed into the most powerful manifestation of the force ever recorded when he achieved oneness, he could even probe the future, a far more advanced version of Precognition, He could actively bend the will of other powerful force users, all but his uncle, Vergere considered him the Jedi dream and the Jedi even believed Luke to be the only jedi who could compare to and defeat Jacen, and this was before his turn to the Dark Side.

Edit: plus he was only defeated by Jaina, the sword of the jedi, when he only had one arm, and he coulda killed her despite all this, but he opted not to.

Meh, as you said, none of this is convincing to me.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Bane really shouldn't be in the top 10. If we're going by feats alone, then I need to put that random ass Jedi from the Clone Wars miniseries in the top 10 for holding a Venator-class Star Destroyer aloft with her TK.

Or maybe Ganner Rhysode for holding off hundreds of Vong at once. Jedi can do amazing feats when they push themselves beyond their limits. As ares said, that was a one-time thing. Bane is consistently powerful.

Also I'm not merely going by feats. Bane has the standing in the mythos to be one of the greats. He outclasses everyone in his era, possesses 3 (4?) holocrons worth of knowledge and has incredible skills in most areas of the Force.

does one have to be top 10 to be great? i mean, i dont consider half of the ancient sith to be top 10, but they're sure as hell great.

Edit: plus didnt caedus kinda pwn kyle katarn, a very powerful jedi in his own right?

Originally posted by ares834
Not if it was a one time thing. Which, incidentally, it seemed to be.

If it was a one-time thing contradicted by other showings, I'd agree.

But the only way Bane deserves a place here is if we determine such things by feats alone. And if we do that, someone like Starkiller annihilates Bane.

And Vitiate.

Feats shouldn't be just be ignored though Tempest. Logical arguments and accolades are important but so too are their actual showings.

Of course feats shouldn't be ignored. If that were the case, I'd never bother defending any character with feats, now would I?

But as I have matured in my understanding of Star Wars canon and bolstered by constant validation of my interpretation, I'm aware of stylization and creative discrepancies.

Feats, even consistent feats, do not alone determine placement. Starkiller demonstrates consistently incredible feats that put to shame characters such as Bane and Vitiate. And while I may put Starkiller above the former, I wouldn't put him above the latter.

Even though, feat-wise, he is. By miles and miles and miles and miles.

If Bane were endorsed by accolade elsewhere, I'd be more sensitive to it. But I simply can't in good conscience put him so highly due to exaggerated feats just as I wouldn't put Dooku above Revan.

Uh-huh, yet you seem to be advocating that we ignore Banes feats and judge him solely by..... being the lowest of the RoT Sith? You can say you're not ignoring his feats but you are clearly putting more stock in your personal extrapolations in terms of power-levels than them.

Except Starkillers feats are noted as being exaggerated whilst Banes are not. How do you judge what is exaggerated? Would you say Sidious' lightning in Sithisis is? His mind-raping billions of Coruscanti? Draining an entire planet? Or Plagueis disintegrating dozens of attacks with a Force Wave? What about Dooku pulling down that platform in the Republic Heroes game? Or Anakin pushing that ship platform in the CS comic? Pfft,of course you wouldn't. So how are you judging Bane as being exaggerated when other characters pull out much crazier shit than he does whilst Banes feats have only ever been consistent with what other high-tier combatants have shown. But of course, that exactly why you consider them exaggerated I'll bet. Because you can't believe that Bane could be close to the Top Tiers therefore his feats must be faulty. Which is obviously bullshit and arbitrary bias on your part.


Also, since Revan was written by the same guy as Bane would you not also say his feats are exaggerated as well? Meaning that Dooku, who you already imply has feats above Revan, would seem even more above him?

...Do you really want to derail this thread into an argument about bias and whose bias is greater? Seems like an exhausting and unproductive enterprise to me.

Of course I think Sidious, Dooku, et al. have exaggerated feats. And you'll note that, using Sidious as an example, I do my best to confine feats to context-specific situations and endorse limitations on such powers.

All I'm saying is that its extremely arrogant to think that you have the right to decide what is and isn't exaggerated and pass it off as fact, based just off your own opinion. Dismissing Banes feats as exaggerations is completely baseless.

wait, what about bane's feats are exaggerated, exactly?

Originally posted by Nephthys
All I'm saying is that its extremely arrogant to think that you have the right to decide what is and isn't exaggerated and pass it off as fact, based just off your own opinion.

Even if that were true, Nebaris and S_W_LeGenD openly engage in the same sort of conduct and yet not once have you brought them to task. Perhaps because they are part of the SWTOR camp?

And we're back to bias again, but just something to think about.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dismissing Banes feats as exaggerations is completely baseless.

Not at all. We know that the meta-theme of the Rule of Two is about each successive Sith surpassing his or her predecessor. We have outright confirmation in the TPM Scrapbook that Sith powers increased with each generation. And we know for a fact that stylistic discrepancy ultimately means jack in an objective assessment of power (e.g. The Father sitting at the top of the heap despite never knocking down a Temple, unleashing a Force storm, or draining planets.)

All Bane has going for him is feats. And if we go by feats, we must accept Starkiller curbstomps him.

yeah i consider bane in my lower half of my top 10 sith, no doubt. my revised list would be:

1. Sidious
2. Plagueis
3. Vitiate
4. Caedus
5. Darth Krayt
6. Exar Kun
7. Tulak Hord
8. Darth vader
9. Darth Nox/Emperor's wrath
10. Darth Nox/Emperor's wrath

i probably forgot some1

actually bane isnt even on my list lol

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Starkiller demonstrates consistently incredible feats that put to shame characters such as Bane and Vitiate.

The difference is that TFU is primarily a videogame, that has been confirmed to feature incredibly exagerrated displays of Force power and includes individuals from other sources where they don't perform anywhere near as impressively.

The Bane trilogy for the most part does not consist of exaggerated displays of the Force, the great displays are basically exclusive to Bane and are corroborated by his standing in the era where it's made clear that he's head and shoulders above everyone else, as well as numerous accolades and his status as a prophecied entity, as well as (by DoE) his considerable experience, vast knowledge base and understanding of the darkside, and unparalleled learning rate. With Bane it's not just a question of feats, his informed ability is arguably just as impressive. I'd also be interested to see how you'd address the orbalisks, assuming we're talking about RoT Bane.

Bane definitely has Starkiller beat in feats btw, he has the superior feats of speed, precision and scale, and demonstrates a greater variety of knowledge and greater technical ability with a lightsaber.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Even if that were true, Nebaris and S_W_LeGenD openly engage in the same sort of conduct and yet not once have you brought them to task. Perhaps because they are part of the SWTOR camp?

And we're back to bias again, but just something to think about.

Nice deflection, but we're talking about your argument, not mine. And I have mentioned many times that I don't agree with all of Neb and Legends arguments.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Not at all. We know that the meta-theme of the Rule of Two is about each successive Sith surpassing his or her predecessor. We have outright confirmation in the TPM Scrapbook that Sith powers increased with each generation. And we know for a fact that stylistic discrepancy ultimately means jack in an objective assessment of power (e.g. The Father sitting at the top of the heap despite never knocking down a Temple, unleashing a Force storm, or draining planets.)

All Bane has going for him is feats. And if we go by feats, we must accept Starkiller curbstomps him.

Which doesn't mean Bane is not in the top 10 known Sith Lords. Plus, as many people have told you the RoT is not infallible nor is it a "magic rule" that makes the apprentice always more powerful in terms of combat than their master. And its never said to what degree they increase. Perhaps they're half a percent more powerful.

Wrong. Bane has more than feats, he's heavily implied to be the Sith'ari for Jegus' sake.

The only relevance that the story's medium has to the equation is the fact that there would be far greater constraints imposed on visual media (due to budget and time) than on literature. Animators have to vividly capture "lolz blow shiz up" whereas all Karpyshyn need do is lovingly detail it with words at a comparatively trivial cost. More importantly, that Karpyshyn himself does not ascribe superiority to Bane over the likes of Revan or even Vader is in itself telling of his authorial intentions: He could have answered the question by saying "lolz Vader fights like an old man, Bane BLOWS UP TEMPLES AND DISINTEGRATES SHIT LOL" but elects not to. Even in the realm of Lucas-canon, we observe a noticeable increase in choreography and performance from characters (not just Jedi and Sith). In the OT, they moved awkwardly and clumsily, lifting X-wings with constipated expressions; in the PT, they move smoothly and fluidly at greater speeds and with greater agility, throwing mini-van sized Senate pods like frisbees; in the Clone Wars microseries, characters annihilate armies and use Trade Federation landing craft like an Asian might wield gongs; in the Clone Wars CGI series, fighters openly engage in acrobatics despite the presence of heavy armor; Darth Maul drags a Jedi shuttle around like Tonka toys, Savage Opress destroys a room by merely flexing. And, in fact, you even notice a Power Creep between Clone Wars seasons 2 & 3+.

Stylistic variance simply does exist. The fact that Leland Chee declared The Father as the most powerful Star Wars character and not, say, Nihilus or Bane or Vitiate makes argument to the contrary untenable.

Bane, as the lowest link in the Rule of Two, is simply the product of exaggeration.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Even if that were true, Nebaris and S_W_LeGenD openly engage in the same sort of conduct and yet not once have you brought them to task. Perhaps because they are part of the SWTOR camp?

And we're back to bias again, but just something to think about.



Not at all. We know that the meta-theme of the Rule of Two is about each successive Sith surpassing his or her predecessor. We have outright confirmation in the TPM Scrapbook that Sith powers increased with each generation. And we know for a fact that stylistic discrepancy ultimately means jack in an objective assessment of power (e.g. The Father sitting at the top of the heap despite never knocking down a Temple, unleashing a Force storm, or draining planets.)

All Bane has going for him is feats. And if we go by feats, we must accept Starkiller curbstomps him.

I don't know if I'd consider myself part of the SWTOR camp, lol, seeing as I haven't even started playing the game. NSW and TotJ perhaps.

But anyway, the difference here is that the EU stuff surrounding the characters from the movies for the most part directly contradicts what we see in the G-Canon movies. You can't say the same thing regarding characters that don't feature in the movies.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nice deflection, but we're talking about your argument, not mine. And I have mentioned many times that I don't agree with all of Neb and Legends arguments.

I'm merely illustrating the quagmire of bias-whining. We can't have an open discussion about it simply because that would require too much openness.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Which doesn't mean Bane is not in the top 10 known Sith Lords. Plus, as many people have told you the RoT is not infallible nor is it a "magic rule" that makes the apprentice always more powerful in terms of combat than their master. And its never said to what degree they increase. Perhaps they're half a percent more powerful.

And yet we have explicit confirmation that the Rule of Two was a success in this regard through each generation.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wrong. Bane has more than feats, he's heavily implied to be the Sith'ari for Jegus' sake.

He was the Sith'ari. But unless we interpret that prophecy illogically and literally ("a perfect being", his cosmological and political importance has no bearing on his Force power.

Unless you'd be willing to confer the same to Palpatine simply by virtue of being history's most successful Sith?

I actually partially agree with you here, in that Bane at his peak is one of the most powerful characters in the mythos; that he was considered to be the possible sith'ari upon first joining the Korriban academy is quite the accolade.

But he's not as powerful as Palpatine. Or Plagueis. Or Vitiate (in the Force). Or Caedus. Or prime Revan. Or Nihilus. Or Yoda. Or Luke. Or possibly some of the upper tier ancient sith (in raw Force ability). Or Kyp Durron (in raw Force ability). Or Mace Windu (with vaapad). Or Abeloth. Or the Father. Or the Son. Or the Daughter. Or Zonakin. Or Zonama Sekot. Or possibly Satele Shan (Force). Or very possibly Vader (Force).

Originally posted by ?YLLAER
But anyway, the difference here is that the EU stuff surrounding the characters from the movies for the most part directly contradicts what we see in the G-Canon movies. You can't say the same thing regarding characters that don't feature in the movies.

Even if I were to agree to that fundamentalist interpretation, the fact remains that the EU is entirely subordinate to the films & TV series... not merely the EU that pertains to film & TV characters.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Even if I were to agree to that fundamentalist interpretation, the fact remains that the EU is entirely subordinate to the films & TV series... not merely the EU that pertains to film & TV characters.

One of the most powerful, and under-emphasized combat feats in the mythos occurs in TPM, with Qui Gon Jinn and Obi Wan Kenobi's super-speed.

I must once again cite Darth Wong:

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=9851

Originally posted by The_Tempest
And yet we have explicit confirmation that the Rule of Two was a success in this regard through each generation.



He was the Sith'ari. But unless we interpret that prophecy illogically and literally ("a perfect being", his cosmological and political importance has no bearing on his Force power.

Unless you'd be willing to confer the same to Palpatine simply by virtue of being history's most successful Sith?

Yeah, except we don't since that quote isn't nearly conclusive.

Except the description of the Sith'ari is "One who has freed themselves from all restrictions has reached perfection, their potential fulfilled. Perfect strength, perfect power, perfect destiny." Even if you don't take it literally, it still indicates strength as a large part of the Sith'ari. Recall that the first Sith'ari was called it because of his strength in battle.

The Rule of Two was largely founded upon the principle that secrecy and deception were the greatest weapons of the Sith, that if an apprentice was able to overcome his master using those means he rightfully succeeded him, and that the Sith could be considered as being more powerful based on such a succession in the sense that it reflects a methodologically more progressive hierearchy. We know that this happened multiple times and it simply doesn't logically follow that each generation of Sith would always grow more powerful (in the manner that we deal with the term) than the last. I acknowledge that the order's knowledge base increased over time but I don't know if we can say this would have particularly influenced the individual power of its members given that they always seemed to rely on the same few core abilities in combat. It would seem that natural talent would be far more important, and such an attribute would presumably be entirely random for the most part.

I can only assume that any text that states that they grew consecutively more powerful each generation is either referring to how resourceful the order was or is operating under an unrealistic interpretation of canon.

Plagueis and Sidious both achieved possible positions of the most powerful sith lord to ever live, the former subjectively, the latter objectively through canon and authorial fiat (including interview statements), within their lifetimes.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, except we don't since that quote isn't nearly conclusive.

Except the description of the Sith'ari is "One who has freed themselves from all restrictions has reached perfection, their potential fulfilled. Perfect strength, perfect power, perfect destiny." Even if you don't take it literally, it still indicates strength as a large part of the Sith'ari. Recall that the first Sith'ari was called it because of his strength in battle.

And I'm not saying Bane is frail or a weak feeb, to borrow KT's terminology. I just don't think he's top 10 anymore.

And I'm not seeing why not.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ

because there are too many peeps stronger than him

yeah i consider bane in my lower half of my top 10 sith, no doubt. my revised list would be:

1. Sidious
2. Plagueis
3. Vitiate
4. Caedus
5. Darth Krayt
6. Exar Kun
7. Tulak Hord
8. Darth vader
9. Darth Nox/Emperor's wrath
10. Darth Nox/Emperor's wrath

i probably forgot some1

actually bane isnt even on my list lol

Edit: AND I left out nihilus

So anyway, any thoughts on who my final two should be?

Originally posted by Nephthys
My own Top 8 atm would be: Sidious, Plagueis, Vitiate, Bane, Nihilus, Tulak Hord, Exar Kun, Krayt.

After that I'm torn between Vader, Marka Ragnos, Zannah, Malgus and Nox for the last two. Maybe Caedus, though no-one's yet changed my mind about him. sneer

Honorable mentions to the Emperors Wrath, Nyriss, Jadus, Uliq Qel'Droma, the First Son, Baras, Wyyrlok, Tyrannus and Karness Muur. Also the Dread Masters but obvs they don't count.

nah, i think vader, nox, and caedus should be ahead of bane

Originally posted by Nephthys
My own Top 8 atm would be: Sidious, Plagueis, Vitiate, Bane, Nihilus, Tulak Hord, Exar Kun, Krayt.

After that I'm torn between Vader, Marka Ragnos, Zannah, Malgus and Nox for the last two. Maybe Caedus, though no-one's yet changed my mind about him. sneer

Honorable mentions to the Emperors Wrath, Nyriss, Jadus, Uliq Qel'Droma, the First Son, Baras, Wyyrlok, Tyrannus and Karness Muur. Also the Dread Masters but obvs they don't count.

I'm leaving out the ancient sith, 'cause their unknowns, and not-Vitiate TOR era sith, because I don't know any of them. I also haven't read Legacy, so...f*ck Krayt.

1. Sidious (Neph has flipped to our side yet again)
2. Plagueis
3. Vitiate
4. Bane
5. Caedus
6. Darth Nihilus
7. Darth Revan
8. Darth Vader
9. Darth Jadus ('cause I realized I was running out of sith)
10. Count Dooku

They're not in order, I copy-pasted the first four from Intrepids list them added the rest as they occured to me.

wait, bane ahead of caedus and vader? darth revan anywhere near your list? and also neph said it wasnt in order, he's still being controlled by a LeGenD

edit: no exar? krayt was pretty powerful, tho it still makes me wonder why all other forums think he'll be pwned by dooku.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And I'm not seeing why not.

I gather that. Likewise, I don't see why Vitiate is more powerful than Sidious. Doesn't stop you from opining as such.

I don't recall making that opine.

Anyway, Vader, Marka Ragnos, Zannah, Malgus, Caedus, Emperors Wrath, Nyriss, Jadus, Uliq Qel'Droma, the First Son, Baras, Wyyrlok, Tyrannus, Karness Muuror or Nox? Pick two.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The only relevance that the story's medium has to the equation is the fact that there would be far greater constraints imposed on visual media (due to budget and time) than on literature. Animators have to vividly capture "lolz blow shiz up" whereas all Karpyshyn need do is lovingly detail it with words at a comparatively trivial cost.

In the past perhaps. With today's technology and with the kinds of budgets these games have, it really isn't that costly to animate big imagery at all, certainly not to the extent that it would be a meaningful barrier on what they creatively want to achieve.

I mentioned videogames as they are usually marketed in a visually exciting manner and every design decision is usually made to accomodate the kind of gameplay they wish to present, both of which would make designers more inclined to feature over the top, exciting action (and more improtantly this is indeed what the TFU designers were going for). Novels by comparison are concerned solely with telling a story and will usually have more of an emphasis on keeping things realistic and grounded.



Drew could very well consider Bane the most powerful of the three, he basically chose not to give his opinion on the matter.



Now here's where technological limitations would account for such differences (though for what it's worth George does give in-universe explanations for those variances).



Likewise with videogames, cartoons will also have a higher propensity for over the top action, and in the case of the original CW cartoon I believe this was also the intention as it was with TFU.



Indeed they do, but not always, and I don't think the Bane trilogy is an example where you can say they do.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't recall making that opine.

Anyway, Vader, Marka Ragnos, Zannah, Malgus, Caedus, Emperors Wrath, Nyriss, Jadus, Uliq Qel'Droma, the First Son, Baras, Wyyrlok, Tyrannus, Karness Muuror or Nox? Pick two.

Caedus, vader, and arguably nox/emperor's wrath are ahead of bane, so...

wait, so you don't think vitiate > sidious?

Don't care, you've said that repeatedly already. Whose highest out of those guys on the list?

I didn't say I didn't think that either.

well, for your error filled list, you may as well put the first son and baras


Edit: it's not WHO'S on your list as much as it matters what order i suspect you'll put em in

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't recall making that opine.

Anyway, Vader, Marka Ragnos, Zannah, Malgus, Caedus, Emperors Wrath, Nyriss, Jadus, Uliq Qel'Droma, the First Son, Baras, Wyyrlok, Tyrannus, Karness Muuror or Nox? Pick two.

Caedus and Vader.

And, upon further arbitrary mathematics, I'd flip Vader above Darth Revan.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
well, for your error filled list, you may as well put the first son and baras


Says the guy who forgot Nihilus from his own list. >:T

yes, and i corrected my self on making such an error, and i editted my post that you just responded to

Fair enough.

1. Vitiate
2. Tulak Hord
3, Nihilus
4. Bane
5. Sidious
6. Plagueis
7. Exar Kun
8. Krayt
9. Marka Ragnos
10. Zannah

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6ifkomwmt1qzno5fo1_500.gif

I'll go with... Muur and Caedus.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ

edit: no exar? krayt was pretty powerful, tho it still makes me wonder why all other forums think he'll be pwned by dooku.

Because they aren't biggest comic fans/haven't seen all the Krayt arguments (an opinion on the internet doesn't equal an informed opinion). Oh yea, and because Bane and Andeddu didn't like him- overlooking that Bane's dislike was philosophical (Bane would've hated a big sith empire who's leader was twice as strong as Bane was), and Andeddu was stomped by Krayt's subordinate.


A lot of people who don't really follow the comics only know some of his early stuff, and not really examine his badass stuff before he lost the armor/examine the power scaling of events, let alone post-resurrection.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Fair enough.

1. Vitiate
2. Tulak Hord
3, Nihilus
4. Bane
5. Sidious
6. Plagueis
7. Exar Kun
8. Krayt
9. Marka Ragnos
10. Zannah

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6ifkomwmt1qzno5fo1_500.gif


edit: as master han once told me, i shouldnt be surprised if ur serious

Originally posted by Nephthys
1. Vitiate
2. Tulak Hord
3, Nihilus
4. Bane
5. Sidious
6. Plagueis
7. Exar Kun
8. Krayt
9. Marka Ragnos
10. Zannah


You forgot Darth Bandon.

And every member of the TOR dark council. Especially Nyriss. Since all ancient named characters are more powerful than named PT era characters.

Neph is being facetious. He already admitted Sidious edges out Vitiate; he's just perturbed that I don't think Bane is top 10 material.

Originally posted by Master Han
You forgot Darth Bandon.

And every member of the TOR dark council. Especially Nyriss. Since all ancient named characters are more powerful than named PT era characters.

Don't be stupid, there are 12 Dark Council members, how am I supposed to fit them all on without pushing off Tulak Hord?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Neph is being facetious. He already admitted Sidious edges out Vitiate; he's just perturbed that I don't think Bane is top 10 material.

I'm still interested in your own list btw. You were vague earlier in the thread.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm still interested in your own list btw. You were vague earlier in the thread.

Arguing exact placement is a fool's errand. The only position given consistently with any measure of exactitude is the first, belonging to Sidious.

What list would you give?

yeah, it'd be interesting to see your list, although i hope it's more similar to mine...

My list is something like:

1. Sidious
---
2. Plagueis/Vitiate
3. Plagueis/Vitiate

The other foolz.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Arguing exact placement is a fool's errand. The only position given consistently with any measure of exactitude is the first, belonging to Sidious.

What list would you give?

I'm not talking about exact placement, just the top 10 in any order. I'm not giving them numbers for much the same reason.

I think I gave you a list a few pages back.

ok good, at least our top 3 are the same

i would have loved to see more of plagueis in action, as he seems extremely powerful, and i believe he may have been able to manipulate his foe's midichlorians mid battle, to which i believe there is no defense. so if plagueis gets prep, he > almost all, if not all other than sidious

Originally posted by The_Tempest
He already admitted Sidious edges out Vitiate;

Seeing that he's admitted and retracted this statement probably literally a hundred times by this moment...

But yeah, it's obvious his list is a joke, lol. But he genuinely seems to possess a fetish for Tulak Hord.


Originally posted by The_Tempest
My list is something like:

1. Sidious
---
2. Plagueis/Vitiate
3. Plagueis/Vitiate

The other foolz.

This. I'm pretty confident in my top three:

1. Sidious
2. Plagueis
3. Vitiate

But whether you put, say, Exar Kun above or below Vader...is almost entirely guesswork.


Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
ok good, at least our top 3 are the same

i would have loved to see more of plagueis in action, as he seems extremely powerful, and i believe he may have been able to manipulate his foe's midichlorians mid battle, to which i believe there is no defense. so if plagueis gets prep, he > almost all, if not all other than sidious

He and Sidious unbalanced the Force itself - I'd put that above any of Vitiate's fancy busting rituals.

wasnt plagueis also a master of saber combat?

To be fair Hord is pretty smexy.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070701155453/swfanon/images/b/b4/Hord6.jpg

Mmmm, he's triple-layer beefcake. He can wield my saber anytime. Unf!

And Vol is pretty high on my list, too. Top 5 probably.

What did he do again?

Remember what Obi Wan does to Grievous's lightsaber blades in RotS? In 25 seconds? That's how long it'll take him to do the same, to Tulak Hord's head, arms, penis and vagina.

lol at Hord fan art.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
wasnt plagueis also a master of saber combat?

So Tenebrous claimed.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What did he do again?

Mindraped Abeloth. Who later admitted he had "much the power of" Luke.

meh, tenebrous's claim is enough for me to put him ahead of vitiate in that regard, lol

Well Palpatine had to learn it from someone.

that is also very true

Originally posted by ares834
lol at Hord fan art.

Theres actually a........ disturbing amount of fanon to go with that fanart.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Mindraped Abeloth. Who later admitted he had "much the power of" Luke.

But she later casually kills him off-screen, with no apparent difficulty or injury.

She was in disguise at the time and we aren't given details over the nature and duration of their battle.

She might have ambushed him.

Besides, I'm not saying they're equals. But mindraping her and being on par with Luke is pretty damn impressive.

Actually, this Tulak Hord fanfic is getting kind of interesting.

Edit: Ahahaha, the ghost of Ajunta Pall was the priest at Hords wedding. F*cking genius!

The Official Sith list is.
1st Marka Ragnos.
2nd Darth Nihilus.
3rd Tulak Hord.
4th Darth Vitiate.
5th Freedon Nadd.
6th Exar Kun.
7th Simus.
8th Naga Sadow.
9th Darth Zannah.
10th Ludo Kressh.
11th Ajunta Pall.
12 Darth Sion..
13th Darth Vader.
14th Darth Plagueis.
15th Darth Malak.
16th Darth Sidious
17th Darth Annedu

that list

is

so

bad

dont talk on matters you CLEARLY know little to nothing about.

Swirch Vitiate and Ragnos around and I'm down with that list. 8^y

How can you have Darth Andeddu on a list but not Wyyrlok or Krayt above him? Considering they're both better at Andeddu in the stuff Andeddu is best at.

And Simus? He lost his duel for leadership, ended up a severed head, and served purely as an advisor from then on.

I wonder if Scourge still counts....... mmm

Originally posted by Master Han
Remember what Obi Wan does to Grievous's lightsaber blades in RotS? In 25 seconds? That's how long it'll take him to do the same, to Tulak Hord's head, arms, penis and vagina.

HELL NO. Hord would PWN Kenobi. He defeated armies of Jedi and pulled down the endar spire and was stated to make the KOTOR Jedi look like "children playing with toys".

I would say.

1.Darth Sidious
2.Darth Plagueis
3.Sith Emperor
4.Tulak Hord
5.Darth Krayt
6.Exar Kun
7.Darth Cadeus
8.Emperors Wrath
9.Darth Bane(RoT)
10.Darth Vader

anyone i'm missing?.

we dont know the details of any of hord's feats (like if he was being amped in any way)

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
anyone i'm missing?.

Nihilus?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
that list

is

so

bad

dont talk on matters you CLEARLY know little to nothing about.

Why don't you STOP IGNORING FACTS!. AND GO BY FEATS ANC ACCOMPLISHMENTS!. IT SEEMS LIKE YOU HAVE A HARD TIME AGREEING WITH FACTS!.

Accept the FACT, that whoever has superior FEATS AND ACCOMPLISHMENTS IS THE MORE POWER!, PERIOD!.

Ragnos, Hord, Vitiate and Sadow have done things that MAKE SIHITIOUS (THE LEADER OF THE SHIT SIDE OF THE DARK SIDE OF THE FORCE!) LOOK LIKE PEACE OF CRAP HE IS!.

So why don't you stop talking about matters you can't understand, BOY.

(:

what have they done that puts them ahead of sidious? sidious has:

Clouded the vision of 1000's of jedi

Aided plagueis in knocking THE FORCE ITSELF off balance

Has been stated in NUMEROUS SOURCES as the most powerful sith ever

Is canonically one of the greatest duelists in the mythos

Is canonically one of the greatest force wielders in the mythos

was the ONLY SITH to bring down the jedi order

Slowly drained a planet of 20,000,000,000 people

Turned a "lush, fertile planet," into "One of the most potent dark side nexuses in the galaxy."

Has moved at near-relativistic speeds

Has created force storms that can consume fleets and planets

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
what have they done that puts them ahead of sidious? sidious has:

Clouded the vision of 1000's of jedi

Aided plagueis in knocking THE FORCE ITSELF off balance

Has been stated in NUMEROUS SOURCES as the most powerful sith ever

Is canonically one of the greatest duelists in the mythos

Is canonically one of the greatest force wielders in the mythos

was the ONLY SITH to bring down the jedi order

Slowly drained a planet of 20,000,000,000 people

Turned a "lush, fertile planet," into "One of the most potent dark side nexuses in the galaxy."

Has moved at near-relativistic speeds

Has created force storms that can consume fleets and planets

1.FALSE
2.FALSE
3.SIDIOUS IS FAR FAR FAR INFERIOR TO THE SITH OF OLD.
4.No he's not.
5.NOPE
6.Ragnos was planning to--however he died of old age. Kun could have so could Revan so could Hord. They just had bIGGER PLANS. AND SIDIOUSES PLANS FAILED BADLY DIDINT THEY WHEN HE GOT HIS ***** ASS THROWN DOWN A SHAFT BY A WEAKASS CYBORG WHO CAN BARLEY MOVE.
7.Not in the movies he didint do that shit. Don't even bring up DE Sidious because thats some fake shit made by EU writers to redeem Sidiouses PATHETIC DEATH HE DIED LIKE WHAT HE WAS A SHIT STAIN AND A WEAKLING!.
8.Not in the movies. He moved slower then Windu. Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh moved 10X faster then him in their fight.
9.FAKEEEEE

Ancient Sith/KOTOR Sith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sidious PERIOD ACCEPT IT.

I think your trolling me.

I have a question, and I want you to answer honestly: how much canon knowledge do you have of the PT EU and onward? The Sidious of DE is canonical, your opinion cannot change that. He did all of those things, read the novelizations/Plagueis

1.Tulak Hord pulled down a GIANT ASS SHIP 100X THE SIZE OF THE ONE MAUL PULLED WITH EASE!. Tulak slaughtered MILLIONS of Jedi at once and defeated ARMIES OF JEDI. Sidious is NOWERE NEAR THAT HE GOT A BEATDOWN FROM MACE WINDU AND VADER LIKE THE PUNK HE IS!. TULAK HORD WOULD KILL SIDIOUS IN 1SWING OF HIS LIGHTSABER!.

2.Marka Ragnos had a scepter capable of absorbing the energy out of his opponent and using it for himself (like vaapad but 500X better). He could drain planets and make NON force sensitive users INTO force sensitives. He defeated 126Jedi with ease and only lost because the Jedi Women collapsed the cave. He ruled over the Sith Empire(the 2nd most powerful dark side orginiazation) for generations UNAPOSSED.

3.Freedon Nadd KILLED MORE JEDI WITH HIS BLASTER THEN ANYJEDI DID WITH A LIGHTSABER! MEANING HIS JEDI KILL COUNT IS IN THE MILLIONS!. HE WOULD KILL SIDIOUS BEFORE HE COULD REACT.

4.Darth Nihilus DRAINED PLANETS OF THEIR ENTIRE LIFE JUST BY SPEAKING.

All of the ABOVE would KILL SIDIOUS, YODA, WINDU, AND DOOKU COMBINED IN 1SECOND. Sidious sucks ALL HE DID WAS GET HIS ASS RIPPED APART BY MACE WINDU AND VADER BOTH OF WHOM ARE CHILDREN PLAYING WITH TOYS COMPARED TO THE ANCIENT SITH AND ARE NOTHING!.

Everything I have stated is a FACT. Sidious could barley lift SENATE PODS, Ludo Kressh SMASHED A GIANT STATUE JUST BY GETTING ANGRY A STATUE 5X THE SIZE OF THOSE PODS!.

Face it, even Sithlords like Darth Bane and Ludo Kressh would solo Sidious. He is the shitstain of the darkside.

This is funny.

Originally posted by Ragnosfan1998
1.Tulak Hord pulled down a GIANT ASS SHIP 100X THE SIZE OF THE ONE MAUL PULLED WITH EASE!.

Stop embellishing facts. Nowhere is it stated that he did it "with ease". You just tacked that onto your recounting. And, as I've pointed out to Neph, this feat is vague and difficult to quantify. How do you determine how difficult it is to pull a ship "down"? Why wasn't it already falling? Was it using repulsorlifts, engines or was it in orbit?

And BTW, Palpatine's Force storms have ravaged planets and destroyed entire starfleets.



Show me the quote where it states he slaughtered "millions" of Jedi.



Circular logic, since Windu is no weakling, and IDK why you think Vader's surprise attack matters.



So what? He has a scepter - that's not indicative of his own power. I could just as validly point towards Sidious's Death Star.

BTW, Sidious has destroyed entire star fleets with Force storms. Just so you know.



Source.



Sidious did this without needing to be a wound in the Force, or whatever.

BTW, Sidious is stated by canon to be the most powerful sith lord of all time.

Originally posted by Master Han
This is funny.



Stop embellishing facts. Nowhere is it stated that he did it "with ease". You just tacked that onto your recounting. And, as I've pointed out to Neph, this feat is vague and difficult to quantify. How do you determine how difficult it is to pull a ship "down"? Why wasn't it already falling? Was it using repulsorlifts, engines or was it in orbit?

And BTW, Palpatine's Force storms have ravaged planets and destroyed entire starfleets.



Show me the quote where it states he slaughtered "millions" of Jedi.



Circular logic, since Windu is no weakling, and IDK why you think Vader's surprise attack matters.



So what? He has a scepter - that's not indicative of his own power. I could just as validly point towards Sidious's Death Star.

BTW, Sidious has destroyed entire star fleets with Force storms. Just so you know.



Source.



Sidious did this without needing to be a wound in the Force, or whatever.

BTW, Sidious is stated by canon to be the most powerful sith lord of all time.

Tulak Hord pulled down a GIANT SHIP WITH TOTAL EASE. That feat is FAR GREATER THEN ANYTHING SIDIOUS HAS EVER DONE. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD, BOY!.

Everything Sidious did in the EU is fake, in the movies he was UNABLE to destroy planets, unable to do force storms. Could do NONE OF THAT.

The Real Sidious is a peace of shit that lost to a funny black guy and a old ass cryborg.

Compared to the REAL SITH

MARKA RAGNOS, FREEDON NADD, AND TULAK HORD, Sidious is a SHIT STAIN IN THE BACK OF A CAR.

Tulak hord SLAUGHTERED over MILLIONS OF JEDI AND ARMIES OF JEDI.

SIDIOUS WAS TO PUSSY TO KILL 300JEDI AT THE JEDI TEMPLE BECAUSE HE WAS A ****ING PUNK AND WEAKLING!.

RAGNOS COULD DRAIN WORLDS SO COULD NIHILUS.

FACE THE FACTS, SIDIOUS IS FAR WEAKER THEN THE ANCIENT SITH. THAT IS A FACT, GET OVER YOURSELF. DARTH SHITIOUS IS THE DARK SHIT OF THE FORCE!.

If Shitious was even half as powerful as Marka Ragnos he would have killed all 4 of the Jedi that attacked him 1second then killed Yoda with his lightning.

BUT HE DIDINT, DID HE!?. BECAUSE HE WAS A WIMP!.

NADD KILLED MORE JEDI WITH A BLASTER THEN ANYONE DID WITH A LIGHTSABER! HE WOULD SQAUSH DARTH SHITIOUS LIKE A BUG!.

Everything I have said is a fact: arguing against it is pointless.

I have said this again, and I will SAY IT AGAIN THOSE WHO HAVE GREATER FEATS AND ACCOMPLISHMENTS WILL ALWAYS BE CONSIDERED GREATER!.

My list would be.

1.marka ragnos
2.naga sadow
3.freedon nadd
4.tulak hord
5.ludo kressh
6.lord simus
(vitiate)
7.exar kun
8.darth revan
9.darth nihilus
10.uliq quel droma

i really hate the pt jedi i mean they did nothing but die to droids the ancient sith are the TRUE lords.

Originally posted by Ancient Sithfan
My list would be.

1.marka ragnos
2.naga sadow
3.freedon nadd
4.tulak hord
5.ludo kressh
6.lord simus
(vitiate)
7.exar kun
8.darth revan
9.darth nihilus
10.uliq quel droma

i really hate the pt jedi i mean they did nothing but die to droids the ancient sith are the TRUE lords.

DAMN amazing list. FINALLY SOMEONE WHO KNOWS STARWARS HERE!.

Originally posted by Ragnosfan1998
DAMN amazing list. FINALLY SOMEONE WHO KNOWS STARWARS HERE!.

thanks man i found this forum by looking for topics on naga sadow and i found naga sadow vs darth revan and i came here naga sadow is my favorite character.