Doomsday vs the Fantastis Four

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Brockalizer
Fantastic Four

vs

DoS Doomsday



Scenario: The JLA has been monitoring the asteroid containing the body of DoS Doomsday and discover that it is approaching a tear in space that will send it to an alternate universe. After extensive calculation, it is determined that in 24 hours the monster will arrive in New York City on Marvel Earth. Feeling somewhat responsible the JLA, unable to reach the Avengers, contact their friends the Fantastic Four and give them the heads up. They also agree to give Reed full access to Watchtower's computer during that time period so that they may formulate a strategy.

No BFR, no Franklin or Valerie

tkitna
Reed has 24 hours of prep? Doomsday dies.

Tony Stark
Originally posted by tkitna
Reed has 24 hours of prep? Doomsday dies.


Reed with 10 minutes prep Doomsday dies

Stoic
If there was no prep Sue would likely be the only one that would be able to do any real lasting damage on Doomsday, but she would have to be acting out of character in order to do this. in other words she'd have to go for the force field to the brain tactic.

Tony Stark
Originally posted by Stoic
If there was no prep Sue would likely be the only one that would be able to do any real lasting damage on Doomsday, but she would have to be acting out of character in order to do this. in other words she'd have to go for the force field to the brain tactic.


Ben would KO his ass wink

Rao Kal El
Reed can figure out "everything" as plot dictates, except that his wife cheats on him... on a second thought, maybe he knows and he likes it.

As for the thread, if it goes like in comics, the FF will fare worse then when they go against the HULK.

They had like 40 + years of data on the Hulk and they still struggle with him, so unless Reed pulls a TOAA killer because the plot dictates, I think DD takes this.

Also by now Reed should have figure out a way to defeat hulk, but then again in comics He does not. is always the plot in any case.

Imo anyway

Cogito
Originally posted by Tony Stark
Ben would KO his ass wink

I sure hope you're joking, but with you I never know how far your Marvel loyalty lies.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Tony Stark
Ben would KO his ass wink
laughing out loud

Stoic
Originally posted by Tony Stark
Ben would KO his ass wink


Lulz

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Tony Stark
Ben would KO his ass wink not even in a "what if?"

tkitna
Reed could always just grab the Anti Galactus armor and just kick Doomsdays ass, but i'm sure he would come up with something way more interesting then that.

Based
Dozens of Reeds combined had months of prep time and not even they can be invincible despite what the circle jerk believes.

Now in 24 hours Reed probably does win this but lol at 10 minutes.

DTM
Funny thing, if this is DOS Doomsday on the asteriod, that means when he revives hell essentially be HP Doomsday. smile

That being said, if Reed has DD info and a full day to prep and plan, then the FF win (or Reed wins), if they dont get that, DD rips the FF to pieces easily.

kgkg
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Reed can figure out "everything" as plot dictates, except that his wife cheats on him... on a second thought, maybe he knows and he likes it.

As for the thread, if it goes like in comics, the FF will fare worse then when they go against the HULK.

They had like 40 + years of data on the Hulk and they still struggle with him, so unless Reed pulls a TOAA killer because the plot dictates, I think DD takes this.

Also by now Reed should have figure out a way to defeat hulk, but then again in comics He does not. is always the plot in any case.

Imo anyway PIS/CIS

Intelligent like Reed is harder to write than super speed.

Brockalizer
Originally posted by Rao Kal El


They had like 40 + years of data on the Hulk and they still struggle with him, so unless Reed pulls a TOAA killer because the plot dictates, I think DD takes this.

Also by now Reed should have figure out a way to defeat hulk, but then again in comics He does not. is always the plot in any case.

Imo anyway One problem with that, Reed seems to be more concerned with curing Banner of the Hulk then he is with defeating him once and for all.
Unless Reed learns the Speed Force formula while accessing Watchtower's computer, I think DD should win pretty handily.

iscaremonkeys
FF with no prep wins

SquallX
Originally posted by iscaremonkeys
FF with no prep wins

What?

iscaremonkeys
yea you heard me. No prep and they win. Their going Against DOS doomsday

SquallX
Originally posted by iscaremonkeys
yea you heard me. No prep and they win. Their going Against DOS doomsday

1. Nothing the FF have in there arsenal without prep would hurt DD. He'll do to them what he did to the Justice League and friends, but 10 times worst.

2. DD on the Asteroid after resurrection is actually HP DD. Good luck with that.

iscaremonkeys
Originally posted by SquallX
1. Nothing the FF have in there arsenal without prep would hurt DD.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a3/Thing_v2_1_coverart.jpg

SquallX
Originally posted by iscaremonkeys
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a3/Thing_v2_1_coverart.jpg

You're a funny one.

Thing at his best is still far weaker than DOS Superman.

iscaremonkeys
ik that. But he'd still hurt him. Reed is a frigging genius. as sue thing and jhonny fight he could create something to kill DD or throw him into sun.....now HP dm Reed needs HUGE prep

SquallX
Originally posted by iscaremonkeys
ik that. But he'd still hurt him. Reed is a frigging genius. as sue thing and jhonny fight he could create something to kill DD or throw him into sun.....now HP dm Reed needs HUGE prep

None of them are fast enough, DD was able to react to the Flash like it was nothing.

iscaremonkeys
WHEN? WHEN THE HELL DID HE DO THAT?

svex
DOOMSDAY FTW.
THING IS A non-factor here, so is torch. sue can't handle such power.
she will be dead meat.
reed now, with prep, he might be able to stop him a lot but eventually he will be only surprised to see doomsday coming outta all and ending him .
the end DOOMSDAYbig grinOFF

Brockalizer
Originally posted by SquallX
None of them are fast enough, DD was able to react to the Flash like it was nothing. It's pretty well known that Doomsday can adapt to what he's being attacked with. Is Doomsday hitting Flash more of an evolved ability, rather than an indicator of natural speed? Are there any scans of someone with a known speed actually dodging an attack from Doomsday?

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by kgkg
PIS/CIS

Intelligent like Reed is harder to write than super speed.

Yes, I imagine, it is hard to write super smart, but there could be a limit to it. Even if he is a genius he cannot possible know everything or figure it out everything (well of course he can in comics) but on a forum fight what will he be able to figure it out?

Some feats of Reed DO LOOK more like bad writing, like you said, super intelligence is harder to write, I agree with you.

Come to think of it, it will be interesting to see what is the general opinion about Super intelligence and what limits has. Can Reed or Doom be considered more intelligent than say Galactus, or Odin? I think not, even if it has been shown, because how can someone know more than a nigh omniscient?

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by Brockalizer
One problem with that, Reed seems to be more concerned with curing Banner of the Hulk then he is with defeating him once and for all.
Unless Reed learns the Speed Force formula while accessing Watchtower's computer, I think DD should win pretty handily.

I agree, but I do think that Reed should have already have found a cure for Hulk and Thing, of course WE know this is not going to happen

Of course there is always the BFR option the FF will have, and I think in that case FF should win.

But physically, this should be a win for DD

That could be a piece of data the FF should get, that the best option to deal with DD is BFR, in that case the FF should win

SquallX
Originally posted by Brockalizer
It's pretty well known that Doomsday can adapt to what he's being attacked with. Is Doomsday hitting Flash more of an evolved ability, rather than an indicator of natural speed? Are there any scans of someone with a known speed actually dodging an attack from Doomsday?

DOS DD didn't have on the fly evolution, that was HP DD.

TheLordofMurder
The moment Doomsday DARES lay his hands on any member of the FF, Franklin shows up, unleashes Celestial level power upon Doomsday, and annihilates him to the point of no return...

Woe to anyone who harms Franklins parents/close friends...

ODG
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
As for the thread, if it goes like in comics, the FF will fare worse then when they go against the HULK.

They had like 40 + years of data on the Hulk and they still struggle with him, so unless Reed pulls a TOAA killer because the plot dictates, I think DD takes this.

Also by now Reed should have figure out a way to defeat hulk, but then again in comics He does not. is always the plot in any case.

Imo anyway Reed has created plot devices that have defeated and/or subdued the Hulk multiple times.

iscaremonkeys
Originally posted by svex
DOOMSDAY FTW.
THING IS A non-factor here, so is torch. sue can't handle such power.
she will be dead meat.
reed now, with prep, he might be able to stop him a lot but eventually he will be only surprised to see doomsday coming outta all and ending him .
the end DOOMSDAYbig grinOFF is he new here?

Brockalizer
Originally posted by SquallX
DOS DD didn't have on the fly evolution, that was HP DD. I meant Doomsday in general, not just the one in this fight.

Damborgson
Originally posted by iscaremonkeys
ik that. But he'd still hurt him.

Pretty sure he wouldn't.

Tony Stark
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
The moment Doomsday DARES lay his hands on any member of the FF, Franklin shows up, unleashes Celestial level power upon Doomsday, and annihilates him to the point of no return...

Woe to anyone who harms Franklins parents/close friends...



big grin

-Pr-
Straight up fight, Doomsday wins. People like the Thing and Sue would get annihilated.

If Reed has any sort of access to his gear, then F4 win, obviously.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Yes, I imagine, it is hard to write super smart, but there could be a limit to it. Even if he is a genius he cannot possible know everything or figure it out everything (well of course he can in comics) but on a forum fight what will he be able to figure it out?

Some feats of Reed DO LOOK more like bad writing, like you said, super intelligence is harder to write, I agree with you.

Come to think of it, it will be interesting to see what is the general opinion about Super intelligence and what limits has. Can Reed or Doom be considered more intelligent than say Galactus, or Odin? I think not, even if it has been shown, because how can someone know more than a nigh omniscient? The guy went to the other side of the universe, put a micro galaxy inside a ring, and then went back in time to celebrate his anniversary so him and Sue could watch them first meeting...
He's pretty handy when it comes to tech, and smarts

More so than Odin, not Galactus. It's already been shown Galactus' tech is way above Reed and Doom's. Galactus actually prepping would be pointless in comics due to how high that'd be. Mind you we seen that when Doom had his powers and beat PR Beyonder
Odin is wiser though.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by SquallX
1. Nothing the FF have in there arsenal without prep would hurt DD.

Cept for the Anti-Galactus suit and the Ultimate Nullifer.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by -Pr-
Straight up fight, Doomsday wins. People like the Thing and Sue would get annihilated.

If Reed has any sort of access to his gear, then F4 win, obviously.

With 24 hours prep and access to JLA files, his plan would not include simply fighting him straight up. There likely would not even be a fight.

kgkg
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Yes, I imagine, it is hard to write super smart, but there could be a limit to it. Even if he is a genius he cannot possible know everything or figure it out everything (well of course he can in comics) but on a forum fight what will he be able to figure it out?
It's hard to limit someone who can create devices to siphon energy from an entire universe , create tools that could kill abstracts level beings etc.

as for how does he stop DOS Doomsday- a KO would suffice and that is well within Reeds capabilities. As for your Hulk example he has stopped the Hulk using tech before.

The argument here is if he is so smart why did he fail in X , Y , Z situations. Most of those can be explained by PIS like Reed not even using the tools he has shown in the past to take down the same opponent.


This is like Flash struggling against Gorilla Grodd even though he has shown FTL reaction speed.

I would say Reed is more innovative than Galactus and Odin. Even Galactus has acknowledged Reed universal intelligence.

I think if we use Full capacity there is no way Reed loses. Using averages -DOS Doomsday probably wins but using averages greatly diminishes attributes like Strength , Speed etc for all comic book characters.

tkitna
Originally posted by iscaremonkeys
is he new here?

He has to be.

tkitna
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Cept for the Anti-Galactus suit and the Ultimate Nullifer.

Reed probably has more then that actually.

We all know that DD would end up in the negative zone somehow anyways.

ODG
Originally posted by kgkg
I would say Reed is more innovative than Galactus and Odin. Even Galactus has acknowledged Reed universal intelligence. Weren't a few seconds of being in Galactus' Worldship enough to stagger Reed into dumbfounded silence during Secret Wars?

Mindset
Johnny sets DD on fire then Ben eats him.

iscaremonkeys
Originally posted by Damborgson
Pretty sure he wouldn't. thing fights hulk and gets the upper hand until he gets tired and hulk gets stronger. Thing has gone to small feats of strength like throwing cars All the way to the epic feat of picking up a whole freaking skyscraper. Trust. He'd harm DOS doomsday

Villelater
i imagine the fight going like this...Reed at the start wraps around Doomsday so the Thing can start landing hits...then Reed leaves leaving Invisible Woman to turn the Thing invisible while Human torch does whatever to help the Thing...i mean i know this boils down to what Reed Richards inventions but this is how i think they can buy the most time

abhilegend
Originally posted by iscaremonkeys
thing fights hulk and gets the upper hand until he gets tired and hulk gets stronger. Thing has gone to small feats of strength like throwing cars All the way to the epic feat of picking up a whole freaking skyscraper. Trust. He'd harm DOS doomsday
facepalm

SquallX
I gotta ask. With Reed's smarts, does he knows that his wife a whore?

iscaremonkeys
Originally posted by SquallX
I gotta ask. With Reed's smarts, does he knows that his wife a whore? hes blinded by love

kgkg

ClayWorm
Reed isn't smart enough to cure cancer, cure Banner, create good anti Hulk weapon to put him down for good yet he has ridiculous feats(just like any comic character which is PIS) that don't play with his feats on official crossovers or nowadays comics. Was it Reed who stopped rampaging Thing empowered by Serpent, was it Reed who stopped anything in our world or build a machine that could take away powers of super criminals? He did nothing against them, he can't.

I can't see any option to throw DD insto space or harm him. Even in DOS DD is evolving, DD is faster then Superman, DD is stronger than Superman, DD flattened Justice League(with tones of different abilities) AND Superman. There is no way FF would be any threat.

kgkg
Originally posted by ClayWorm
Reed isn't smart enough to cure cancer, cure Banner, create good anti Hulk weapon to put him down for good Reed has done all the above the only reason why these can't be applied permanently is due to plot.1.) Ben is the Thing so he can't be cured permanently. Reed has cured him momentary many times. 2.) Reed has also cured cancer again they can't make this world wide due to plot reasons --- Stories needs to be relevant to real life and cancer is a real problem in today's world. 3.) Reed has created anti Hulk weapons lol.

Mindset
I thought Doom cured Ben when Reed couldn't?

kgkg
Originally posted by Mindset
I thought Doom cured Ben when Reed couldn't? Doom has been more successful.

Mindset
Well, yea, he's Doom.

maxivitopowe
Only option I see is negative zone

maxivitopowe
Either that or they phase him into a solid block of a vibranium/adamantium alloy surrounded by a reverbium cage

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by ODG
Reed has created plot devices that have defeated and/or subdued the Hulk multiple times.

Care to share reference #?, all I have seen are temporary restraining devices which exploit the need for the Hulk to breath at certain stages.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
The guy went to the other side of the universe, put a micro galaxy inside a ring, and then went back in time to celebrate his anniversary so him and Sue could watch them first meeting...
He's pretty handy when it comes to tech, and smarts

More so than Odin, not Galactus. It's already been shown Galactus' tech is way above Reed and Doom's. Galactus actually prepping would be pointless in comics due to how high that'd be. Mind you we seen that when Doom had his powers and beat PR Beyonder
Odin is wiser though.

You see? this is what I mean.

How come a guy can go to the other side of the universe and back in time and still he acknowledges that He cannot find a way to stop the Hulk or miscalculates that a Thor clone will go rogue?

I mean when it comes to the forum some character perform well above their tier.

Yes and Doom defeating PR Beyonder is PIS for the PR Beyonder, all and all a being of that much power will not even have the need of curiosity and will create a charade to study the human race in the whole multiverse. IMO anyway

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by kgkg
It's hard to limit someone who can create devices to siphon energy from an entire universe , create tools that could kill abstracts level beings etc.

as for how does he stop DOS Doomsday- a KO would suffice and that is well within Reeds capabilities. As for your Hulk example he has stopped the Hulk using tech before.

The argument here is if he is so smart why did he fail in X , Y , Z situations. Most of those can be explained by PIS like Reed not even using the tools he has shown in the past to take down the same opponent.


This is like Flash struggling against Gorilla Grodd even though he has shown FTL reaction speed.

I would say Reed is more innovative than Galactus and Odin. Even Galactus has acknowledged Reed universal intelligence.

I think if we use Full capacity there is no way Reed loses. Using averages -DOS Doomsday probably wins but using averages greatly diminishes attributes like Strength , Speed etc for all comic book characters.

I believe PIS or bad writing works in both ways. Honestly killing abstracts. I mean Superman has defeated guys well above just by being smart, that does not mean I buy that. Because PIS is working in favor of Superman and against the other character. Killing an abstract being that is probably omniscient should fall into that category. IMO

I mean, yes I can believe that in one in a million chance the FF defeated Galactus because they found Galactus UN. but that's it.

And while I could see how Reed could come up with something to stops DD (after all 24 hrs of prep time and access to all his gear of years), what I will like to know, is how much are We willing to accept feats like the ones writers apply to beings operating well above their tier.

ODG
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Care to share reference #?, all I have seen are temporary restraining devices which exploit the need for the Hulk to breath at certain stages. Incredible Hulk #122 and 153. Originally posted by Rao Kal El
You see? this is what I mean.

How come a guy can go to the other side of the universe and back in time and still he acknowledges that He cannot find a way to stop the Hulk He's stopped Hulk before.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by ODG
Incredible Hulk #122 and 153. He's stopped Hulk before.

Those two look more like weakness exploitation. And mainly it looks like the Hulk rage level is not at high levels of stress.

Yet, the scenario changes a lot when facing someone like a mindless hulk, bannerless hulk or a WWH, which IMO will be closer to what DD power level is.

But mind this two scenarios mentioned are more like an specific weakness exploitation. Which "technically" DD does not has.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
You see? this is what I mean.

How come a guy can go to the other side of the universe and back in time and still he acknowledges that He cannot find a way to stop the Hulk or miscalculates that a Thor clone will go rogue?

I mean when it comes to the forum some character perform well above their tier.

Yes and Doom defeating PR Beyonder is PIS for the PR Beyonder, all and all a being of that much power will not even have the need of curiosity and will create a charade to study the human race in the whole multiverse. IMO anyway If you're talking about WWH then his big plan was to calm Hulk down.
He wasn't trying to actually beat Hulk, and quite frankly thinking he can't is being way too happy to ignore everything he's accomplished, ALL of Hulk's feats withstanding.
The Thor clone was just a desperate time.

Reed doesn't have a tier though. He's not overpowering things, he's not punching holes in space. He's just creating inventions. He will lose 100 fights, but that has nothing to do with his mind, same in reverse.
Anyway, Reed whipped out his Anti Galactus suit to one shot CAP who was beating characters like Sentry, Dr Strange, and like 20 other heroes at the same time easily. He had a gun that could fire anti matter that bounced around repeatedly that did what alternate UNs could not when he took down a Celestial. The guy literally pulled out a random gun that closed a black hole that was swallowing Earth, and all he wanted to do was contain Nova at the time. Hell right now the guy is traveling through time and even visited the Big Bang.
What Reed can do, he won't do in comics against his buddies like Hulk. He likes Hulk, he's not going to destroy him.

Well, Beyonder started fighting Doom with Galactus's power and he ultimately lost due to Galactus tech.
Beyonder's curiosity had nothing to do with that one. It just shows the tech Galactus is capable of

ODG
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Those two look more like weakness exploitation. Those two are guns Reed invented that basically one-shot Hulk. Making excuses for how effective Reed created those guns doesn't change that he's created tech that has brought Hulk down. After all, he's created tech that has laid Abstracts low.

So your supposition that Doomsday would present some sort of odd obstacle because Reed never seems to deal with superpowered bricks like he does with other problems is both baseless and contradictory to actual comics. Reed's smarts and ingenuity aren't stymied by Punchy McPunchers.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by ODG
Weren't a few seconds of being in Galactus' Worldship enough to stagger Reed into dumbfounded silence during Secret Wars?
That was then. Years later, in the very same spaceboat, Galactus matter-of-factly stated that Reed had a universally relevant intelligence.

Guess it makes sense, since he's the only intellectual peer of Doom.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
That was then. Years later, in the very same spaceboat, Galactus matter-of-factly stated that Reed had a universally relevant intelligence.

Guess it makes sense, since he's the only intellectual peer of Doom. http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/Tech/HE%20Galactus%20tech/SS_5_009.jpg

Reed knows Galactus is vastly smarter than him, even now. And that's under Pak

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/Tech/HE%20Galactus%20tech/SS_5_009.jpg

Reed knows Galactus is vastly smarter than him, even now. And that's under Pak
You misunderstood my point. I am not saying that he's smarter than Galactus himself.

To have your intellect directly acknowledged by one of the universe's premier Abstracts is quite telling. Which is in line with the fact that his mind was used as a blueprint for remaking reality.

ODG
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Which is in line with the fact that his mind was used as a blueprint for remaking reality. Non-feat.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
You misunderstood my point. I am not saying that he's smarter than Galactus himself.

To have your intellect directly acknowledged by one of the universe's premier Abstracts is quite telling. Which is in line with the fact that his mind was used as a blueprint for remaking reality. Yes it is good.
I'm just saying he's dumb compared to Galactus. But smarter than everyone else in the universe, though equal with Doom.

Which reminds me of the arc you brought up, though no relevance. Lightwave, Maestro Jr, and Goddess X are on Earth apparently. I'd like to see them brought up some time since that could make for an interesting arc. Maybe under Miller (who really hammered how smart Reed was as well).

ODG
^ They left Earth on a ship made from their alternate Galactus' corpse to go... somewhere.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by ODG
Non-feat.
Based on what?

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by ODG
^ They left Earth on a ship made from their alternate Galactus' corpse to go... somewhere. Oh shit, I forgot about that.

The Galactus ship was utterly hilarious too. I don't know how I could forget that

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by ODG
^ They left Earth on a ship made from their alternate Galactus' corpse to go... somewhere.
IIRC, they decided to go and explore the universe or some such sh1t.

Though it's strange why the galactuscraft wasn't able to attain ftl speeds. Maybe Hickman trying to incorporate real life interstellar travel concepts?

ODG
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Based on what? The comic.

iscaremonkeys
why are people treating thing as a non-factor here? Thing stalemates hulk until anger ensues. hes pretty strong in his own right

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by iscaremonkeys
why are people treating thing as a non-factor here? Thing stalemates hulk until anger ensues. hes pretty strong in his own right Because with beings like Namor and Thing it doesn't matter how many good feats they have on the forum because bios said they were lower than class 100 so their feats don't matter.

Not saying Thing would matter, it's just that this is how it works here for some reason. Thing is class '80', not the guy who has given numerous good fights to Thor, Hulk, and pretty much every other being along that level.

iscaremonkeys
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Because with beings like Namor and Thing it doesn't matter how many good feats they have on the forum because bios said they were lower than class 100 so their feats don't matter.

Not saying Thing would matter, it's just that this is how it works here for some reason. Thing is class '80', not the guy who has given numerous good fights to Thor, Hulk, and pretty much every other being along that level. but...that's ****ing retarted

tkitna
I think its the fact that DD handled characters of more ilk then Benjy during his comic appearances. People dont usually include Ben in the Superman tier. Sure he might get a few haymakers in, but what would that result in? DD will end up killing him.

iscaremonkeys
Originally posted by tkitna
I think its the fact that DD handled characters of more ilk then Benjy during his comic appearances. People dont usually include Ben in the Superman tier. Sure he might get a few haymakers in, but what would that result in? DD will end up killing him. im not saying thing BY HIMSELF distracts DD. Him jhonny and Sue. My argument is that Thing could hurt DD

Brockalizer
Originally posted by iscaremonkeys
but...that's ****ing retarted I totally agree, but life isn't fair. Feats get ignored and good characters like Sabastian Shaw and or Thing get underestimated because one DC and Marvel display combat speed differently.

tkitna
Originally posted by iscaremonkeys
im not saying thing BY HIMSELF distracts DD. Him jhonny and Sue. My argument is that Thing could hurt DD

Not enough to sway the results in any way or form. The Thing is a non factor here. He would be quickly dealt with. Johnny has nothing here either. Sue has maybe less then a snow balls chance in hell too. Reed is the only person who can tip the scales.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by ODG
The comic.
Contradicts your claim.

ODG
^ Non-feat was deconstructed years ago. Using the comic. Either reread it to figure it out yourself or feel free to use the search function.

TheGodKiller
I am not going to bother wasting time browsing several year old posts. Either explain where in the comic it's implied to be a non-feat, or shut the phuck up.

Either ways it doesn't change the fact that he has a universally relevant intelligence.

ODG
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I am not going to bother wasting time browsing several year old posts. Either explain where in the comic it's implied to be a non-feat, or shut the phuck up.

Either ways it doesn't change the fact that he has a universally relevant intelligence. But I have to waste my time explaining it to someone who can't bother to read the comic itself or look up the previous discussion where this myth got busted? Irony. Feel free to take your own advice. I'm not going to bother extending this charade of your's as you've made it quite obvious you'd rather plead ignorance than have your preconceptions overturned.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the Alien Entity.

TheGodKiller
^Yep. Afterall, it was you who made the claim that it was a non-feat in this thread. Put up or shut up.

As simple as that, browski.

DarkSaint85
How long does the fight go on for?

The FF win handily when they all get into the Zeno Room (all of them, so no BFR) and just sit there watching Doomsday run at them.

h1a8
Without prep DD wins. With prep Reed can win.

Brockalizer
Originally posted by h1a8
Without prep DD wins. With prep Reed can win. Even with prep this may be a tall order without bfr. Reed could possibly learn the Speed Force formula, but I'm not sure that's enough. It would be interesting to see if DD could take an IMP to both sides of the head from Reed.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Brockalizer
Even with prep this may be a tall order without bfr. Reed could possibly learn the Speed Force formula, but I'm not sure that's enough. It would be interesting to see if DD could take an IMP to both sides of the head from Reed. ...

What

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I am not going to bother wasting time browsing several year old posts. Either explain where in the comic it's implied to be a non-feat, or shut the phuck up.

Either ways it doesn't change the fact that he has a universally relevant intelligence. Basically, the question posed created the spark of the big bang, and then the Alien Entity's view of the universe made everything into chaos, so he needed Reed's knowledge of how the universe worked so planets didn't collide with each other or suns swallow planets.

Together they created a working universe. And Reed sent the cosmic rays to make himself Fantastic

Also, the Alien Entity was a giant pussy.

JayDaDon
Originally posted by Brockalizer
Even with prep this may be a tall order without bfr. Reed could possibly learn the Speed Force formula, but I'm not sure that's enough. It would be interesting to see if DD could take an IMP to both sides of the head from Reed.

C'mon, Doomsday would be a memory if Reed got prep.

Brockalizer
Originally posted by JayDaDon
C'mon, Doomsday would be a memory if Reed got prep. Reed's smart, but he's not McGuyver smart. Without the benefit of bfr, he's going to need to take the time to study the Watchtowers computer to learn what he can about Doomsday. Even if he comes up with an idea that MIGHT work, he still has to design and build the weapon, as well as fabricate any parts that aren't just lying around the lab. Reed is famous for "I just need you to buy me a few more minutes". Against Doomsday, "a few more minutes" might be to much to ask for. I like Ben, but he's outta his depth on this one, Torch is a non factor, and Sue's forcefield won't hold up to a sustained attack from someone as strong as Doomsday.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Brockalizer
Reed's smart, but he's not McGuyver smart. Without the benefit of bfr, he's going to need to take the time to study the Watchtowers computer to learn what he can about Doomsday. Even if he comes up with an idea that MIGHT work, he still has to design and build the weapon, as well as fabricate any parts that aren't just lying around the lab. Reed is famous for "I just need you to buy me a few more minutes". Against Doomsday, "a few more minutes" might be to much to ask for. I like Ben, but he's outta his depth on this one, Torch is a non factor, and Sue's forcefield won't hold up to a sustained attack from someone as strong as Doomsday.

Or he just uses the Watchtower's database to learn what can and cannot kill Doomsday (i.e. he's unstoppable) then goes home and pulls out his Celestial gun.

All that can be done in thirty minutes.

JayDaDon
Originally posted by Brockalizer
Reed's smart, but he's not McGuyver smart.

no expression reed has tech in his lab onhand that I'd be willing to bet would dust Doomsday. Imagine if he had prep on top of that.

Brockalizer
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Or he just uses the Watchtower's database to learn what can and cannot kill Doomsday (i.e. he's unstoppable) then goes home and pulls out his Celestial gun.

All that can be done in thirty minutes.
A.) At the time Doomsday was on the astariod they hadn't yet learned of his adaptability, so that very important piece of information wouldn't be available to Reed.

and

B.) I doubt Reed's first reaction would be to use an Abstract busting weapon on what he would most likely consider a Hulk-class threat. Reed doesn't do overkill very often.

Tony Stark
Originally posted by Brockalizer
A.) At the time Doomsday was on the astariod they hadn't yet learned of his adaptability, so that very important piece of information wouldn't be available to Reed.

and

B.) I doubt Reed's first reaction would be to use an Abstract busting weapon on what he would most likely consider a Hulk-class threat. Reed doesn't do overkill very often.


Doomsday wishes he could receive an amp to HULK level; assumed or not...

-Pr-
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
With 24 hours prep and access to JLA files, his plan would not include simply fighting him straight up. There likely would not even be a fight.

I didn't read the OP, therefore shut up. uhuh

Endless Mike
Reed wins. Probably comes up with something to teleport him back to DC.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Brockalizer
A.) At the time Doomsday was on the astariod they hadn't yet learned of his adaptability, so that very important piece of information wouldn't be available to Reed.

and

B.) I doubt Reed's first reaction would be to use an Abstract busting weapon on what he would most likely consider a Hulk-class threat. Reed doesn't do overkill very often.

Yes, but what WOULD be on the database would be how 'normal' tactics (i.e. blasting him with energy projection from Guy, Booster etc) didn't even phase him, plus that laser cannon Emil developed.

So long range weaponry won't work.

Close range weaponry (i.e. fists) would definitely not work.

In other words, if you're going to fire a long range weapon at him, better make sure its damn powerful. I.e. the Celestial gun - or something similar, at least.

He's not turning up with a standard comic book laser gun, that's for sure. It'll either be a plot device weapon that would stop Doomsday, or something he already has lying around.

ODG
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
^Yep. Afterall, it was you who made the claim that it was a non-feat in this thread. Put up or shut up.

As simple as that, browski. Considering that it was your initial statement that Reed's mind was used as a blueprint for remaking reality that I took issue with, I believe the shoe is on the other foot here. But by all means, since you want to invoke the burden of proof game with me over a complete non-issue, explain what exactly you thought Reed did there that relates somehow to him being a universally relevant intelligence.

All this wasted effort to avoid rereading the comic for yourself.

kgkg
Originally posted by h1a8
Without prep DD wins. With prep Reed can win.

zopzop
Originally posted by h1a8
Without prep DD wins. With prep Reed can win.
This.

Without prep, DD stomps the FF. With prep, Reed wins (the other members aren't even needed).

Brockalizer
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, but what WOULD be on the database would be how 'normal' tactics (i.e. blasting him with energy projection from Guy, Booster etc) didn't even phase him, plus that laser cannon Emil developed.

So long range weaponry won't work.

Close range weaponry (i.e. fists) would definitely not work.

In other words, if you're going to fire a long range weapon at him, better make sure its damn powerful. I.e. the Celestial gun - or something similar, at least.

He's not turning up with a standard comic book laser gun, that's for sure. Even seeing the damage soak data that the League would have accumulated during the DoS incident, Reed would still be more likely to consider Doomsday a Hulk-class threat, rather than Abstract level threat. Reed would be more likely to try to use one of the weapons that had been developed for the Hulk, probably slightly modified but equally unsuccessful. If this were Dr. Doom, in this scenario then it would be different. Vic would go all in and try to humble the beast with some over the top ridiculously overpowered super weapon, but IMO it's Reed's tendency to try to do just enough to squeak by, rather than go all out that would give Doomsday the win.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It'll either be a plot device weapon that would stop Doomsday, or something he already has lying around. Unless the plot happens to be "Death of the Fantastic 4".

maxivitopowe
Have they ever tried using magic against him

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Have they ever tried using magic against him

Not DoS Doomsday.

Originally posted by Brockalizer
Even seeing the damage soak data that the League would have accumulated during the DoS incident, Reed would still be more likely to consider Doomsday a Hulk-class threat, rather than Abstract level threat. Reed would be more likely to try to use one of the weapons that had been developed for the Hulk, probably slightly modified but equally unsuccessful. If this were Dr. Doom, in this scenario then it would be different. Vic would go all in and try to humble the beast with some over the top ridiculously overpowered super weapon, but IMO it's Reed's tendency to try to do just enough to squeak by, rather than go all out that would give Doomsday the win.

Nah, Vic would Ovoid Mind Swap.



And that's the problem with superintelligence. Either the plot calls for him to win, where he'll then develop a weapon that's tuned to the molecular vibrations blah blah blah and it'll work, or they get turned to mush.

A third option is that Reed wins, but at the cost of his family.

A fourth is, rather than engaging the beast, he just fires a rocket/kinetic missile at the asteroid and nudges it into the Sun, so it never hits Marvel Earth. It won't take him 24 hours to do the calculations and I'm sure he has the parts lying around the Baxter Building to do so.

So either he wins - by avoiding the fight in the first place (likely, as the Watchtower's databases have him on record as killing the strongest being on DC Earth, and Booster's statement on record that he's 'faster than Flash'), or developing the specific weapon needed;

he loses - by being smeared into dust.

stalemate - by going into the Zeno Room.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by ODG
Considering that it was your initial statement that Reed's mind was used as a blueprint for remaking reality that I took issue with, I believe the shoe is on the other foot here. But by all means, since you want to invoke the burden of proof game with me over a complete non-issue, explain what exactly you thought Reed did there that relates somehow to him being a universally relevant intelligence.

All this wasted effort to avoid rereading the comic for yourself.
I see that you don't want to bring the proof to the table.

In that case, concession accepted. thumb up

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not DoS Doomsday.



Nah, Vic would Ovoid Mind Swap.



And that's the problem with superintelligence. Either the plot calls for him to win, where he'll then develop a weapon that's tuned to the molecular vibrations blah blah blah and it'll work, or they get turned to mush.

A third option is that Reed wins, but at the cost of his family.

A fourth is, rather than engaging the beast, he just fires a rocket/kinetic missile at the asteroid and nudges it into the Sun, so it never hits Marvel Earth. It won't take him 24 hours to do the calculations and I'm sure he has the parts lying around the Baxter Building to do so.

So either he wins - by avoiding the fight in the first place (likely, as the Watchtower's databases have him on record as killing the strongest being on DC Earth, and Booster's statement on record that he's 'faster than Flash'), or developing the specific weapon needed;

he loses - by being smeared into dust.

stalemate - by going into the Zeno Room.

Actually magic was used against him, I forgot the voodoo guys name, but it didn't work out very well for him in the end.

MF DELPH
I say the Fantastic 4 because Reed is smart enough to know a drawn out battle with a being like Doomsday would cause too much damage and casualties in a populated area. He'd likely have a device set up to make Doomsday intangible and out of phase with the 616 universe so he can't interact with anything (not a bfr). Doomsday would just spend his time punching and swinging through everything and doing zero damage.

maxivitopowe
Was wondering cos if they did and he adapts past it...
That can't be good for anyone

JayDaDon
Originally posted by MF DELPH
I say the Fantastic 4 because Reed is smart enough to know a drawn out battle with a being like Doomsday would cause too much damage and casualties in a populated area. He'd likely have a device set up to make Doomsday intangible and out of phase with the 616 universe so he can't interact with anything (not a bfr). Doomsday would just spend his time punching and swinging through everything and doing zero damage.

That would be an awesome invention laughing

MF DELPH
OP says DOS Doomsday, so his HP active adaptations aren't on the table I believe. Putting him out of phase with reality or having him stuck in a teleporter loop should work and wouldn't be BFR. Whatever course of action is taken has to take into consideration protecting the civilians of New York, and a battle won't accomplish that.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Stoic
Actually magic was used against him, I forgot the voodoo guys name, but it didn't work out very well for him in the end.

That was Bloodwynd, and I believe he was actually Martian Manhunter in disguise.

comic_book_fan
if they didn't have prep the ff would stall using tactics and combined powers to hold dd off. sue shielding the others ben could knock doomsday around. it wouldn't hurt him. but he could be a distraction with sue and Johnny. just to distract long enough for reed to grab what he need from his lab.
with prep it just saves ben sue and Johnny some time and energy and the city millions in property damage.

ODG
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I see that you don't want to bring the proof to the table.

In that case, concession accepted. thumb up I see that you didn't even have a position you were even willing to back.

Easiest argument I ever won. I tell you to elaborate what you claim and you wilt utterly. thumb up

But wait... instead of assuming you're afraid, I'll simply assume you read the comic and/or searched past deconstructions and realized how foolish your initial assumptions were.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by ODG
I see that you didn't even have a position you were even willing to back.

Easiest argument I ever won. I tell you to elaborate what you claim and you wilt utterly. thumb up

But wait... instead of assuming you're afraid, I'll simply assume you read the comic and/or searched past deconstructions and realized how foolish your initial assumptions were.
Irony.

Quanchi.

Lol.

On a side note, did I mention that your concession was accepted in the previous post? Or are you really the semi-literate twit that you're pretending to be in this case?

LeonBuco666
So 4 meta humans vs a mid herald

A guy who can fly and say "flame on!" and he engulfs himself in fire
A girl who can go invisible and make strong force fields
A super smart stretchy guy
And a walking garden feature

And the super ultra smart stretchy guy has full details on DD
Yeah FF WIN BRUTALLY SEEING AS REED HAS UNSPECIFIED PREP

Hm
Who knows :roll eyes:

comic_book_fan
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
So 4 meta humans vs a mid herald

A guy who can fly and say "flame on!" and he engulfs himself in fire
A girl who can go invisible and make strong force fields
A super smart stretchy guy
And a walking garden feature

And the super ultra smart stretchy guy has full details on DD
Yeah FF WIN BRUTALLY SEEING AS REED HAS UNSPECIFIED PREP

Hm
Who knows :roll eyes:
it's funny how you use mid herald level to describe and try to simplify the ff to make them sound weaker if only those four that always find away to beat galcatus and his heralds if only those guys were in this fight.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by ODG
Those two are guns Reed invented that basically one-shot Hulk. Making excuses for how effective Reed created those guns doesn't change that he's created tech that has brought Hulk down. After all, he's created tech that has laid Abstracts low.

A few problems with your argument.

First that Gun Reed created was thanks to ALL the info Reed thanks to his own studies and BANNERS studies, which I am sure they probably were quite extensive, noticing how one of the contributors is the actual HULK and who will be better suited to create a WEAKNESS exploitation device to deal with the HULK than the HULK himself with the smartest man in the world.

Mind that the GUN while it achieved to stop the HULK briefly thanks to what it could be considered a weakness exploitation and it never achieved the effect desired by Reed Richards, so his calculations with the HULK are often wrong.

And if I remember correctly, usually when he gets to defeat low abstracts it is usually based on some sort of tech that he ends up stealing or adapting from someone else.


Originally posted by ODG
So your supposition that Doomsday would present some sort of odd obstacle because Reed never seems to deal with superpowered bricks like he does with other problems is both baseless and contradictory to actual comics.

Reed will not have years of studying DD neither Doomsday is going to hand him a formula to create a "Nega Gun" like Hulk did




Originally posted by ODG
Reed's smarts and ingenuity aren't stymied by Punchy McPunchers.

That is contradictory to what has been shown in comics, I should probably re-read WWH, how many days did he had to prep? and he came up with what? "Sentry light"?



Now, while I am full aware of the capabilities of Reed and how he has defeated low abstracts, taking into the context behind them gives a different point of view.

so a few things with this thread.

I pretty much agree with what PR said, If reed gets his hands on his gear, the FF wins.

but this is not part of the forum rules, neither it seems the OP was thinking about Reed having access to his full gear of his lab, or it is not part of his standard gear for a forum fight.

Now what the OP said is this.

Originally posted by Brockalizer
Fantastic Four

vs

DoS Doomsday



Scenario: The JLA has been monitoring the asteroid containing the body of DoS Doomsday and discover that it is approaching a tear in space that will send it to an alternate universe. After extensive calculation, it is determined that in 24 hours the monster will arrive in New York City on Marvel Earth. Feeling somewhat responsible the JLA, unable to reach the Avengers, contact their friends the Fantastic Four and give them the heads up. They also agree to give Reed full access to Watchtower's computer during that time period so that they may formulate a strategy.

No BFR, no Franklin or Valerie

So this is pretty much HP Doomsday.

The Doomsday in the asteroid is HP Doomsday, the FF are getting all the information from the watchtower regarding DOS DD.

By the time the information gathered by the JLA about DD is pretty much non-existent.

The only information available for Reed to work is that DD fought the league and stalemated Superman, Reed does not knows that Radiant had to destroy 1/5 of Calaton neither does he know that DD has faced a Guardian of the Galaxy or that He survived a tear in space, He does not knows that DD has no internal organs, minimal fluids, healing factor, etc, etc. Reed does has basically NO INFO on this DD, which it actually puts him in disadvantaging position, because he has all that they know about DOS DD, But he is basically facing HP DD.

So yes, this is a pretty tough fight for the FF and most likely the will loose it, unless Reed gets his NON-STANDARD gear, IMO. Though I see how he can come with the teleprotation device too

ODG
^ Reed knows everything that the JLA would know about Doomsday. Which probably includes some things you erroneously say they don't. For instance, Superman is the one who discovered firsthand that Doomsday has no internal organs. Unless Superman is keeping secrets from the JLA, there isn't any reason to argue otherwise.

Reed has dealt with Punchy McPunchers on Doomsday's level before. Shocking, I know. You probably thought you had a genuine insight onto Reed's failings and thought it applied wonderfully. That frankly, fell flat on its face. Reed isn't trying to calm Doomsday down peacefully to atone for his crimes against him, the situation in World War Hulk. He's trying to defeat him. I imagine even if Reed were to completely eschew weapons that have taken out Celestials, he might just use a mind-control device like Braniac did or just spatially entrap him between teleporters. Something the JLA would surely know about as well, since they fought a mind-controlled Doomsday and defeated him with such tactics.

This isn't beyond your capacity to imagine. Just something you're not willing to admit openly. Your unwillingness changes nothing. Reed's got sh1t lying around in his closet that have taken out Abstracts. Punchy McPunchers do not offer some special challenge to him. Particularly those that aren't his dear friends. Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Irony.

Quanchi.

Lol.

On a side note, did I mention that your concession was accepted in the previous post? Or are you really the semi-literate twit that you're pretending to be in this case? Fling insults all you want. You can't even taken a position. That you tremble so much over a complete non-issue because you fear a complete dressing down is not something I am here to remedy.

In fact, any such danger you perceive can be avoided simply by reading the comic or searching for past deconstructions of myths that have promulgated about it. But we all know that instead of actually discussing any issue, you're more than happy to drag out a non-argument for non-argument's sake.

I haven't seen that before. kinda

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
If you're talking about WWH then his big plan was to calm Hulk down.
He wasn't trying to actually beat Hulk, and quite frankly thinking he can't is being way too happy to ignore everything he's accomplished, ALL of Hulk's feats withstanding.
The Thor clone was just a desperate time.

Reed doesn't have a tier though. He's not overpowering things, he's not punching holes in space. He's just creating inventions. He will lose 100 fights, but that has nothing to do with his mind, same in reverse.
Anyway, Reed whipped out his Anti Galactus suit to one shot CAP who was beating characters like Sentry, Dr Strange, and like 20 other heroes at the same time easily. He had a gun that could fire anti matter that bounced around repeatedly that did what alternate UNs could not when he took down a Celestial. The guy literally pulled out a random gun that closed a black hole that was swallowing Earth, and all he wanted to do was contain Nova at the time. Hell right now the guy is traveling through time and even visited the Big Bang.
What Reed can do, he won't do in comics against his buddies like Hulk. He likes Hulk, he's not going to destroy him.

Well, Beyonder started fighting Doom with Galactus's power and he ultimately lost due to Galactus tech.
Beyonder's curiosity had nothing to do with that one. It just shows the tech Galactus is capable of

Honestly, While I like the FF I think a lot of Reed or Doom feats are bad writing or PIS, this will probably be better discuss, in the character ruling thread.

And the last part about Galactus tech vs PR Beyonder, Honestly there is no amount of tech galactus could use against PR beyonder, if it weren't because of PIS.

That will be actually be a low showing for PR Beyonder.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Rao Kal El


The only information available for Reed to work is that DD fought the league and stalemated Superman, Reed does not knows that Radiant had to destroy 1/5 of Calaton neither does he know that DD has faced a Guardian of the Galaxy or that He survived a tear in space, He does not knows that DD has no internal organs, minimal fluids, healing factor, etc, etc. Reed does has basically NO INFO on this DD, which it actually puts him in disadvantaging position, because he has all that they know about DOS DD, But he is basically facing HP DD.

So yes, this is a pretty tough fight for the FF and most likely the will loose it, unless Reed gets his NON-STANDARD gear, IMO

Didn't only stalemate Supes; killed him. This is the strongest being on DC Earth.

Booster Gold also said he was 'faster than the Flash'. Cross referencing the data with Flash, Reed will think that Doomsday is some kind of lightspeeder.

So you have a threat who is faster and stronger than almost anyone you have ever seen. But crucially, cannot fly.

Why even get into a fight? Just redirect that asteroid away from Marvel Earth. Simples.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by ODG
^ Reed knows everything that the JLA would know about Doomsday. Which probably includes some things you erroneously say they don't. For instance, Superman is the one who discovered firsthand that Doomsday has no internal organs. Unless Superman is keeping secrets from the JLA, there isn't any reason to argue otherwise.

Reed has dealt with Punchy McPunchers on Doomsday's level before. Shocking, I know. You probably thought you had a genuine insight onto Reed's failings and thought it applied wonderfully. That frankly, fell flat on its face. Reed isn't trying to calm Doomsday down peacefully to atone for his crimes against him, the situation in World War Hulk. He's trying to defeat him. I imagine even if Reed were to completely eschew weapons that have taken out Celestials, he might just use a mind-control device like Braniac did or just spatially entrap him between teleporters. Something the JLA would surely know about as well, since they fought a mind-controlled Doomsday and defeated him with such tactics.

This isn't beyond your capacity to imagine. Just something you're not willing to admit openly. Your unwillingness changes nothing. Reed's got sh1t lying around in his closet that have taken out Abstracts. Punchy McPunchers do not offer some special challenge to him. Particularly those that aren't his dear friends.


So basically the gun and weakness exploitation argument is not working and Reed is using non standard gear includes Abstract killing weapons.

I understand your argument, Is wrong, but is yours anyway.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
So basically the gun and weakness exploitation argument is not working and Reed is using non standard gear includes Abstract killing weapons.

I understand your argument, Is wrong, but is yours anyway.

So you want him to show up and ram Doomsday with the Fantasticar?

I mean, he's the inventor, the guy who builds things. What do you expect he'll do when he gets the Watchtower info and 24 hours of prep?

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Didn't only stalemate Supes; killed him. This is the strongest being on DC Earth.

Booster Gold also said he was 'faster than the Flash'. Cross referencing the data with Flash, Reed will think that Doomsday is some kind of lightspeeder.

So you have a threat who is faster and stronger than almost anyone you have ever seen. But crucially, cannot fly.

Why even get into a fight? Just redirect that asteroid away from Marvel Earth. Simples.

Superman and DD stalemated as both died, actually He "lost" as he "died" first.

And yes DD is fast, but not flash fast, well maybe that ere flash fast but not light speed.

And I think the OP wanted to see fight, otherwise why is he pitting DD vs the FF, but yes, I guess it could be a viable option. if it does not count as BFR.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Superman and DD stalemated as both died, actually He "lost" as he "died" first.

And yes DD is fast, but not flash fast, well maybe that ere flash fast but not light speed.

And I think the OP wanted to see fight, otherwise why is he pitting DD vs the FF, but yes, I guess it could be a viable option. if it does not count as BFR.

Well, whether he is Flash fast or not, records show Booster Gold's battle reports referring to him as being faster than Flash. So Reed will have to at least consider he's a fast mofo, and a threat.

He'll also see the insane tanking abilities of Doomsday, where he tanked Booster, Guy, Maxima, Fire, Supes, Bloodwynd etc...so he's not going to show up to a fight with a pissy little laser gun. It's going to be loaded for bear.

Or just all get into the Zeno Room, and Doomsday will never be able to get them.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So you want him to show up and ram Doomsday with the Fantasticar?

I mean, he's the inventor, the guy who builds things. What do you expect he'll do when he gets the Watchtower info and 24 hours of prep?

What ever he is building he is building on outdated info, asteroid DD is not DOS DD is HP DD. meaning he is prone to more miscalculations.

ODG
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
So basically the gun and weakness exploitation argument is not working and Reed is using non standard gear includes Abstract killing weapons.

I understand your argument, Is wrong, but is yours anyway. He'll just use tech that has done things ranging from defeating Hulk to defeating Abstracts. Stuff that he even has lying around for no apparent reason other than because hes already built it and can summon at will easily. On-panel.

Of course, your backhanded insinuation that Doomsday is somehow beyond the reach of Reed's tech or that somehow Reed cannot use mind-control and teleporters that have subdued and defeated Doomsday like before, is such a solid argument.

But like you said, we all have rights to our opinions. Even wrong ones like your's built on the flimsiest of assumptions and willful ignorance. I also have the right to laugh myself out of this conversation.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well, whether he is Flash fast or not, records show Booster Gold's battle reports referring to him as being faster than Flash. So Reed will have to at least consider he's a fast mofo, and a threat.

He'll also see the insane tanking abilities of Doomsday, where he tanked Booster, Guy, Maxima, Fire, Supes, Bloodwynd etc...so he's not going to show up to a fight with a pissy little laser gun. It's going to be loaded for bear.

Or just all get into the Zeno Room, and Doomsday will never be able to get them.

Does he has to get DD inside the Baxter Building?

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by ODG
He'll just use tech that has done things ranging from defeating Hulk to defeating Abstracts. Stuff that he even has lying around for no apparent reason other than because hes already built it and can summon at will easily. On-panel.

Of course, your backhanded insinuation that Doomsday is somehow beyond the reach of Reed's tech or that somehow Reed cannot use mind-control and teleporters that have subdued and defeated Doomsday like before, is such a solid argument.

But like you said, we all have rights to our opinions. Even wrong ones like your's built on the flimsiest of assumptions and willful ignorance. I also have the right to laugh myself out of this conversation.

Cool I acknowledge the teleportation device for you to notice, but is always with the backhanded insults with you. I wonder where did you learned all those social skills of yours..... Are you happy with your life???

Never mind, forget about that question

But yeah Like PR said.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Does he has to get DD inside the Baxter Building?

Nah - from what Reed said, it was pretty easy to make:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vJUPrvwEkYg/UHGGH09wIGI/AAAAAAAALQU/9YgfSmXlSvs/s1600/025.jpg

Now imagine having that spatial distortion field all around Doomsday. It needn't be in a room, it could be anytime he tries to interact with anything on Marvel U.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Nah - from what Reed said, it was pretty easy to make:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vJUPrvwEkYg/UHGGH09wIGI/AAAAAAAALQU/9YgfSmXlSvs/s1600/025.jpg

Now imagine having that spatial distortion field all around Doomsday. It needn't be in a room, it could be anytime he tries to interact with anything on Marvel U.


Pretty good trick, but this is a room apparently he calls it "my room", care to share issue #? so I can see what are all its properties and how he came with.

Cool scan BTW.

Mindset
DD gets raped.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Pretty good trick, but this is a room apparently he calls it "my room", care to share issue #? so I can see what are all its properties and how he came with.

Cool scan BTW.

Mighty Avengers 26

ODG
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Cool I acknowledge the teleportation device for you to notice, but is always with the backhanded insults with you. I wonder where did you learned all those social skills of yours..... Are you happy with your life???

Never mind, forget about that question

But yeah Like PR said. I'm insulting your arguments. Because they are weak and flimsy. This is the internet. Toughen up cupcake. When someone tells you you're wrong or your opinions are wrong, they're not telling you you're entire existence is an insult to humanity. I could care less about the person you are or where your current lot in life stands. It's the internet.

I imagine you have nothing further to contribute to this conversation than backhanded trolling though. I mean, this coming from the poster who has habitually told me to lighten up when the jabs and barbs are slung around playfully. Irony.

Let me know in advance, if you're going to bump this thread 20 months in the future. I'll set my calendar it.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/lol.gif

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by ODG
I'm insulting your arguments. Because they are weak and flimsy. This is the internet. Toughen up cupcake. When someone tells you you're wrong or your opinions are wrong, they're not telling you you're entire existence is an insult to humanity. I could care less about the person you are or where your current lot in life stands. It's the internet.

I imagine you have nothing further to contribute to this conversation than backhanded trolling though. I mean, this coming from the poster who has habitually told me to lighten up when the jabs and barbs are slung around playfully. Irony.

Let me know in advance, if you're going to bump this thread 20 months in the future. I'll set my calendar it.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/lol.gif

lol and you haven't even come up with new insults.

Classic ODG

Take two of this and move along big grin

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb4/mikeyair/TheHulkwithMidol.jpg

ODG
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
lol and you haven't even come up with new insults.

Classic ODG

Take two of this and move along big grin

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb4/mikeyair/TheHulkwithMidol.jpg Not like I have much to work with here. You haven't done anything much dumber than swear off the forum for a year just to come back and bump a dead thread. T'was a highlight of your posting career.

And you clearly won't even discuss the thread topic anymore. I mean, you tell me my opinion is wrong and I am entitled to it. I say the same exact thing about your opinion in response. And all of a sudden, thus stymied, you fall back into the prototypical behavior of trolling me personally about my life outside this forum.

Rich irony for one who used to plead with mods that these conversations aren't anything to get personal over. But this has all happened before, and gods willing, it'll all happen again.

Probably in 16 months or so.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by ODG
Not like I have much to work with here. You haven't done anything much dumber than swear off the forum for a year just to come back and bump a dead thread. T'was a highlight of your posting career.

And you clearly won't even discuss the thread topic anymore. I mean, you tell me my opinion is wrong and I am entitled to it. I say the same exact thing about your opinion in response. And all of a sudden, thus stymied, you fall back into the prototypical behavior of trolling me personally about my life outside this forum.

Rich irony for one who used to plead with mods that these conversations aren't anything to get personal over. But this has all happened before, and gods willing, it'll all happen again.

Probably in 16 months or so.

I understand that You don't have a business to run and maybe you have enough free time to discuss this things, I wish I had enough time as yourself to do it, but I don't.

This might be the reason why I "bump threads" because is not like I am the only who does it, after all.

But then again, somehow We are getting into my biography here and the things I do, and you seem to keep a record in a notebook about them.

The irony as you say is rich wink

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Mighty Avengers 26

It seems that on that arc traveling at speed of sound will cross the room.

I think it will be with in the capabilities of Hulk or DD to defeat this room.

ODG
^ Reread the scene. Sound itself can cross the room. Nothing else. Certainly not something that simply moves at the speed of sound or above. Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I understand that You don't have a business to run and maybe you have enough free time to discuss this things, I wish I had enough time as yourself to do it, but I don't.

This might be the reason why I "bump threads" because is not like I am the only who does it, after all.

But then again, somehow We are getting into my biography here and the things I do, that you seem to keep a recor in a notebook about them.

The irony as you say is rich wink Not at this time of night I do. I don't care about your personal life. Pretty sure I stated that before.

We all know why you bump threads that nobody cares about anymore.

No, we're not getting into your personal life outside of these threads. I was discussing what you do in these threads. There's a difference.

And thus, the only irony comes from you trying to share more about yourself on a personal level when I clearly don't give a sh1t what you do outside of these forums and have said so a number of times. Get over it.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by ODG
^ Reread the scene. Sound itself can cross the room. Nothing else. Certainly not something that simply moves at the speed of sound or above. Not at this time of night I do. I don't care about your personal life. Pretty sure I stated that before.

We all know why you bump threads that nobody cares about anymore.

No, we're not getting into your personal life outside of these threads. I was discussing what you do in these threads. There's a difference.

And thus, the only irony comes from you trying to share more about yourself on a personal level when I clearly don't give a sh1t what you do outside of these forums and have said so a number of times. Get over it.

Just a clarification, because only someone with the IQ of a worm will think (insinuate or state) that I leave for long period of times with the purpose of bumping threads in 16 months or so.

"We all know, you bump threads nobody cares anymore"

Is that and statement? if so was this a "dead thread"?

I think that sound better if you say it like this.

"I (ODG) THINK, You bump threads, that I (ODG) don't care anymore"

That sounds more like it. smile

ODG
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Just a clarification, because only someone with the IQ of a worm will think (insinuate or state) that I leave for long period of times with the purpose of bumping threads in 16 months or so.
A misogynist as well as a dullard. How unsurprising. Originally posted by Rao Kal El
"We all know, you bump threads nobody cares anymore"

Is that and statement? if so was this a "dead thread"?

I think that sound better if you say it like this.

"I (ODG) THINK, You bump threads, that I (ODG) don't care anymore"

That sounds more like it. smile "We all know why you bump threads that nobody cares about anymore." <--- Actually what I said. Not sure what you're quoting or how you even managed to copy what I said incorrectly. You managed to completely stop this conversation in its tracks with sheer unintentional absentmindedness. Shame, I suppose? I'm sure we were about to get into your abused childhood because really, that's what you were trying to turn this thread into. All about you, in real life... in a Doomsday vs Fantastic Four thread.

Stick with arguing about comics. Arguing about your personal life as it relates to how you argue about comics, is both a fruitless and witless endeavor.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by ODG
^ Reread the scene. Sound itself can cross the room. Nothing else. Certainly not something that simply moves at the speed of sound or above.

You see the Dimensional wave inducer? That seems to be a SOLID object riding a sonic wave, which moves at the speed of what?

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by ODG
A misogynist as well as a dullard. How unsurprising. "We all know why you bump threads that nobody cares about anymore." <--- Actually what I said. Not sure what you're quoting or how you even managed to copy what I said incorrectly. You managed to completely stop this conversation in its tracks with sheer unintentional absentmindedness. Shame, I suppose? I'm sure we were about to get into your abused childhood because really, that's what you were trying to turn this thread into. All about you, in real life... in a Doomsday vs Fantastic Four thread.

Stick with arguing about comics.

THIS

Originally posted by ODG
Arguing about your personal life as it relates to how you argue about comics, is both a fruitless and witless endeavor.

As fruitless as mentioning that I leave for 16 months, 2 months, bump thread and so on? Oh the Irony wink

ODG
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
You see the Dimensional wave inducer? That seems to be a SOLID object riding a sonic wave, which moves at the speed of what? What is a sonic wave made of? It's not the speed the sound was moving at that allowed it to cross the room. It was its nature as a sonic wave. They quite literally tell you that in the comic.Originally posted by Rao Kal El
THIS



As fruitless as mentioning that I leave for 16 months, 2 months, bump thread and so on? No, you leaving for 16 months and bumping dead threads was stupid. You trying to make excuses about why you did it by trying to explain your real life was fruitless and witless. Me pointing out that your actions are either stupid, fruitless, or witless is really just me pointing out that your actions are either stupid, fruitless, or witless. Not that hard. These are very dry statements.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by ODG
What is a sonic wave made of? It's not the speed the sound was moving at that allowed it to cross the room. It was its nature as a sonic wave. They quite literally tell you that in the comic. No, you leaving for 16 months and bumping dead threads was stupid. You trying to make excuses about why you did it by trying to explain your real life was fruitless and witless. Me pointing out that your actions are either stupid, fruitless, or witless is really just me pointing out that your actions are either stupid, fruitless, or witless. Not that hard. These are very dry statements.

It could be the frequency, but seeing as the Reed voice does not sound like "ZWRRZ" I doubt is the frequency.

You said NOTHING can pass except Reed voice, which is a LIE. seeing as a sonic beam can pass.

I said DD or Hulk or mos high tiers with some degree of super speed will be pretty much capable of pass this room and I back up my claim with showing a physical object riding a sonic wave.

The burden of proof falls on you to show that "NOTHING" but Reeds voice can pass that room.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by ODG
No, you leaving for 16 months and bumping dead threads was stupid. You trying to make excuses about why you did it by trying to explain your real life was fruitless and witless. Me pointing out that your actions are either stupid, fruitless, or witless is really just me pointing out that your actions are either stupid, fruitless, or witless. Not that hard. These are very dry statements.

Lets just leave it at that and talk about comics. but making those "dry statements" are also fruitless, stupid and witless. to say the least.

ODG
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Lets just leave it at that and talk about comics. I agree. Comics it is.

EDIT: Nice edit though. By all means, I'm sure you can't leave the discussion without a backhanded insult. But whatever. Statement stands. You can think what you want. Your behavior was stupid, fruitless and witless. And now with retorting with the equivalent of, "Nyahnyah, I know you are, but what am I???", you can also add childish to the mix. Originally posted by Rao Kal El
It could be the frequency, but seeing as the Reed voice does not sound like "ZWRRZ" I doubt is the frequency.

You said NOTHING can pass except Reed voice, which is a LIE. seeing as a sonic beam can pass.

I said DD or Hulk or mos high tiers with some degree of super speed will be pretty much capable of pass this room and I back up my claim with showing a physical object riding a sonic wave.

The burden of proof falls on you to show that "NOTHING" but Reeds voice can pass that room. I meant that only sounds or sonic waves (of which Reed's voice is) can cross the room. Obviously, Hank's voice also crossed the room.

Something that didn't cross the room that probably moves faster than the speed of sound? Hank's bio-electric blasts. Which did nothing. It wasn't speed that bypassed the spatial distortions. It was sonics, because that was the loophole Reed devised to keep Hank away but leave him open to a lecturing. Which is why Hank used a sonic beam emitter. He didn't use a faster-than-sound waves emitter.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by ODG
I agree. Comics it is.

You believe something like a thunderclap will affect this room?

Endless Mike
Does anyone want me to bring out my huge archive of scans of the crazy crap Reed has invented? Because I will.

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