Legion of 3 Worlds INVADE Asgard!

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



LordofBrooklyn
Legion of 3 Worlds

http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/077/388/i02/final_crisis_legion_of_3_worlds.jpg

VS

Asgard

No BFR

Sundipped
^That's a shit load of herald level beings. They would be hard to stop but beings like Bor or Gaea should tip the scales. Mordru vs. Odin should be a good fight tho.

cdtm
^ Odin's not Legion though.

Who's in Asgard?

wolverinos
Originally posted by cdtm
Who's in Asgard?

Thor rubbing Mjolnir

SquallX
Since Mordru is in this, are we also adding Prime?

Golgo13
Why is Mordru in this? He isn't on those teams.

pym-ftw
Odin throws the Coaw at them...

LeonBuco666
Odin bring the entire lifeforce of asgard into the destroyer
Hmmm, including gaea.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Asgard.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by Golgo13
Why is Mordru in this? He isn't on those teams.

Mordru's power was taken from him during the climax of the story.

Sundipped
^We're using everyone from that arc right? Time Trapper, Mordru, and Prime included?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Sundipped
^We're using everyone from that arc right? Time Trapper, Mordru, and Prime included?

Why would the Legion of 3 worlds get them? They are literally the opposing side.

It's like saying Asgard gets Surtur or something. Asgard still beats them down either way but it doesn't make much sense imo.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by Sundipped
^We're using everyone from that arc right? Time Trapper, Mordru, and Prime included?

Only the members of the Legions. Mordru's power can be used as it was taken from him in the end.

Sundipped
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why would the Legion of 3 worlds get them? They are literally the opposing side.

It's like saying Asgard gets Surtur or something. Asgard still beats them down either way but it doesn't make much sense imo.

The op was a bit misleading.
I know the pic in the op is of the legion of superheroes but the title says legion of 3 worlds which would include the legion of superheroes and legion of supervillians. There were alternate legions as well.

No Asgard wouldn't win either way like you stated...without the likes of beings like Sutur that is. Especially with beings like Time Trapper and Mordru being fair game.

cdtm
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Odin bring the entire lifeforce of asgard into the destroyer
Hmmm, including gaea.

Miracle Machine.

The Concentrator would be cooler, though, considering the underwhelming way it was used...

It's supposed to draw off energy from the entire universe, to the point of shutting down all the energy forms it's drawing from.. It sound like one of the most overpowered weapons ever, and all the LOSH does with it is clear up some falling asteroids.. To save a planet in the way, but still, kind of overkill..

Sundipped
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Only the members of the Legions. Mordru's power can be used as it was taken from him in the end.

Ok....and that was the mystical power of a whole universe too.
Since TT was in allegiance with the LoSV does this mean he's included?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Sundipped
The op was a bit misleading.
I know the pic in the op is of the legion of superheroes but the title says legion of 3 worlds which would include the legion of superheroes and legion of supervillians. There were alternate legions as well.

No Asgard wouldn't win either way like you stated...without the likes of beings like Sutur that is. Especially with beings like Time Trapper and Mordru being fair game.

Clearly it meant the superheroes. Otherwise you'd assume Asgard meant all the other Nine Worlds or something as they are apart of the Asgardian dominion. You have to be fair, but the logic is flawed either way imo. Anyways, doesn't really matter, the OP clarified.

If you're going to include villains, you have to do it for both sides. Not that beings like Gaea, Odin and so on aren't enough to win by themselves. Especially since Prime Time Trapper only showed some time warping abilities outside his regular powers IIRC. Although it's been a while.

Damborgson
It'll take more than heralds to take down an Asgard that actually fights to win. The artifacts of power alone are off the scale.

cdtm
Originally posted by Damborgson
It'll take more than heralds to take down an Asgard that actually fights to win. The artifacts of power alone are off the scale.

Depends on the Asgard, doesn't it?

If it came down to best of Asgard, vs best of LOSH, the Miracle Machine alone is equal to just about anything Odin can bring up, considering it's basically a giant wishing machine on level with a Cosmic Cube or Infinity Gauntlet..

And than there's the white witch/black witch who's well above herald level.. Other characters might be too, it could be argued. Element Lad, for one. His transmutation powers are top of the line, and the guy turned into an insane all powerful character at one point in his history..

abhilegend
Time Trapper would win solo. He was powerful enough to destroy everything in a universe in seconds untill only two planets, Krypton and Earth remained. That's above one eye could ever hope to achieve. Also Time Trapper's identity changes with flux in timeline, he is a sentient timeline and his power remains unchanged.

abhilegend
Here is Trapper casually creating a new universe and destroying everything but two planets in it in seconds.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16624862_Action_Comics_591_-_08.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16624864_AdventuresOfSuperman444p04and05.jpg

The proof that it was the same trapper as Prime-Trapper.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16624861_04.jpg

Superman slugged it out evenly with this same Trapper.

laughing out loud

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by abhilegend
Here is Trapper casually creating a new universe and destroying everything but two planets in it in seconds.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16624862_Action_Comics_591_-_08.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16624864_AdventuresOfSuperman444p04and05.jpg

The proof that it was the same trapper as Prime-Trapper.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16624861_04.jpg

Superman slugged it out evenly with this same Trapper.

laughing out loud

I don't understand, how is that proof that it was the same version of Time Trapper?

Especially since at the end of the comic, Brainiac outright says this:
Originally posted by Galan007
actually, it was explained in the story that TT's powers are exactly what prime will not be retaining - as those energies, and the person utilizing them, are in a constant state of fluctuation:

http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/1913341_tt1.jpg

---

if anything, prime will just keep his regular powers :

http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/1910123_sbp9.jpg

Unless you can show Prime Trapper doing the feat I don't understand how you can apply past feats to him.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by abhilegend
Time Trapper would win solo. He was powerful enough to destroy everything in a universe in seconds untill only two planets, Krypton and Earth remained. That's above one eye could ever hope to achieve. Also Time Trapper's identity changes with flux in timeline, he is a sentient timeline and his power remains unchanged.

Odin manipulating Surtur's energies.

cdtm
Prime Trapper is recalling history a past Trapper did, which proves even as there's multiple versions of Time Trapper with different motivations, they all have a shared history.. At the least, knowledge and experience of past Trappers apply to future, alternate versions of Trapper.

Think of Time Trapper as an abstract entity like Dream of the Endless. Lord Morpheus and Daniel Dream are different characters, but both are still Dream.. Both have the same function and capabilities.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by cdtm
Prime Trapper is recalling history a past Trapper did, which proves even as there's multiple versions of Time Trapper with different motivations, they all have a shared history.. At the least, knowledge and experience of past Trappers apply to future, alternate versions of Trapper.

Think of Time Trapper as an abstract entity like Dream of the Endless. Lord Morpheus and Daniel Dream are different characters, but both are still Dream.. Both have the same function and capabilities.

But how does the second scan prove that it was the same Time Trapper as Prime Trapper?

That's all well and good, but unless there is some actual evidence to support it, I'm not going to assume Prime Trapper did anything other then what was shown on panel as it outright says in the comic in which he appeared in that everything about the character is in constant flux. I just don't understand how you can get around that without hard evidence.

Sundipped
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Clearly it meant the superheroes. Otherwise you'd assume Asgard meant all the other Nine Worlds or something as they are apart of the Asgardian dominion. You have to be fair, but the logic is flawed either way imo. Anyways, doesn't really matter, the OP clarified.

If you're going to include villains, you have to do it for both sides. Not that beings like Gaea, Odin and so on aren't enough to win by themselves. Especially since Prime Time Trapper only showed some time warping abilities outside his regular powers IIRC. Although it's been a while.

We'll have to get the op to specify if the nine worlds are included but yeah he kinda clarified.

As it stands, it'll take more than just Odin and Gaea to get it done. Mordru energry manipulated a massive team of legion of superheroes and transfered their power. TT the entity was separated from Prime in this arc until Lo3W #5. Then emerges Time Trapper Prime as well as SBP who was still in existence.

There was TT/Prime at the end of the arc who it took a whole multiverse of Legionaire alternates to semi deal with. The entity himself appeared earlier beforehand.
Earlier he snatched Superman, Lightning Lad, Cosmic Boy, and Saturn Girl out the timestream, told them his plans then one shot em.

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16630979_FinalCrisisLegionofThreeWorlds4-2.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16631047_FinalCrisisLegionofThreeWorlds4-3-1.jpg

abhilegend
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't understand, how is that proof that it was the same version of Time Trapper?

Especially since at the end of the comic, Brainiac outright says this:


Unless you can show Prime Trapper doing the feat I don't understand how you can apply past feats to him.
He recalled creating the pocket dimensions to confuse Legion and removing superboy from history which never lasts long and that was . After Prime punched Trapper, he removed himself from the timestream and was sent to the Earth-prime. Doesn't mean Prime Trapper didn't do anything he said. Time-Trapper's identity changes with each flux in timestream, he remains the same entity throughout the history.Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Odin manipulating Surtur's energies.
Nothing compared to what Trapper did.

maxivitopowe
Am I the only one who thinks that there has to have been some mad orgies in the entire of the Legions run?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Sundipped
We'll have to get the op to specify if the nine worlds are included but yeah he kinda clarified.

As it stands, it'll take more than just Odin and Gaea to get it done. Mordru energry manipulated a massive team of legion of superheroes and transfered their power. TT the entity was separated from Prime in this arc until Lo3W #5. Then emerges Time Trapper Prime as well as SBP who was still in existence.

There was TT/Prime at the end of the arc who it took a whole multiverse of Legionaire alternates to semi deal with. The entity himself appeared earlier beforehand.
Earlier he snatched Superman, Lightning Lad, Cosmic Boy, and Saturn Girl out the timestream, told them his plans then one shot em.

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16630979_FinalCrisisLegionofThreeWorlds4-2.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16631047_FinalCrisisLegionofThreeWorlds4-3-1.jpg

Do you happen to have a scan of that? It's nothing beyond what Odin is capable of but I just don't remember seeing it in the arc.

What issue did Prime Trapper take on a Multiverse of Legions? Actually, I'll just get the whole arc. Did he actually one shot them or did he just knock them off his feet? Neither is really impressive at this level but I just want to be clear.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by abhilegend
He recalled creating the pocket dimensions to confuse Legion and removing superboy from history which never lasts long and that was . After Prime punched Trapper, he removed himself from the timestream and was sent to the Earth-prime. Doesn't mean Prime Trapper didn't do anything he said. Time-Trapper's identity changes with each flux in timestream, he remains the same entity throughout the history.
Nothing compared to what Trapper did.

So it's Prime Trapper narrating in that second scan? What issue is that from? I'd like to see for myself or post a scan if you're able. I still don't understand how that proves that they are the same entity. I'm guessing the Time Trapper from the first scans did what the Time Trapper of the second scan describes regarding Superboy? But still doesn't change the fact that Brainiac very specifically states that the entity's entire history and identity changes:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1913341/tt1.jpg.html

I have no problem using every past Time Trapper feat ever for Prime Trapper but it'd be something the OP has to specify as based on the information I have, I can only apply to Prime Trapper what we've seen him actually do.

Sutur had collected enough power to burn the entire Nine Worlds. Using Other World as a conduit for his energies, he'd have burned/destroyed the entire Multiverse. Which is far more impressive then Time Trapper time traveling to the past where he removes a tiny sliver of space/time so small it could not be measured to have devastating effects on the Universe in the future:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16624864/AdventuresOfSuperman444p04and05.jpg.html

I mean, it's still impressive, but in terms of raw sheer destructive power, not anywhere close.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So it's Prime Trapper narrating in that second scan? What issue is that from? I'd like to see for myself or post a scan if you're able. I still don't understand how that proves that they are the same entity. I'm guessing the Time Trapper from the first scans did what the Time Trapper of the second scan describes regarding Superboy? But still doesn't change the fact that Brainiac very specifically states that the entity's entire history and identity changes:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1913341/tt1.jpg.html

I have no problem using every past Time Trapper feat ever for Prime Trapper but it'd be something the OP has to specify as based on the information I have, I can only apply to Prime Trapper what we've seen him actually do.

Sutur had collected enough power to burn the entire Nine Worlds. Using Other World as a conduit for his energies, he'd have burned/destroyed the entire Multiverse. Which is far more impressive then Time Trapper time traveling to the past where he removes a tiny sliver of space/time so small it could not be measured to have devastating effects on the Universe in the future:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16624864/AdventuresOfSuperman444p04and05.jpg.html

I mean, it's still impressive, but in terms of raw sheer destructive power, not anywhere close.
Yes, its prime trapper narrating from Action Comics 864. Its nothing new, Time-Trapper's identity has changed several times from Cosmic boy to Glorith to a controller to some other being altogether.

Surtur wanted to create a chain reaction to destroy the multiverse using otherworld. On his own his energies were not enough to destroy even Asgard. Also you are not paying any attention to what the scan says, that portion of the time had every planet and star from the proper universe.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16624864/AdventuresOfSuperman444p04and05.jpg.html

Trapper destroyed everything but two planets in seconds.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, its prime trapper narrating from Action Comics 864. Its nothing new, Time-Trapper's identity has changed several times from Cosmic boy to Glorith to a controller to some other being altogether.

Surtur wanted to create a chain reaction to destroy the multiverse using otherworld. On his own his energies were not enough to destroy even Asgard. Also you are not paying any attention to what the scan says, that portion of the time had every planet and star from the proper universe.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16624864/AdventuresOfSuperman444p04and05.jpg.html

Trapper destroyed everything but two planets in seconds.

So we see Prime Trapper narrating or are you just assuming it's him? I just want to be clear before I bother getting the issue.

No, it's specifically said that he'd use Otherworld as a conduit for destroying the Multiverse:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16631813_Thor-Zone-007.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16631814_Thor-Zone-008.jpg

Asgard? What are you talking about? His energies were redirected by the one being who can render them harmless:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16631815_Thor-Zone-017.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16631816_Thor-Zone-018.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16631818_Thor-Zone-019.jpg

That scan outright says that Time Trapper did what he did by pruning that small sliver of space/time:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16624864_AdventuresOfSuperman444p04and05.jpg

Nowhere even close to Surtur's level of sheer raw power. There's a difference between unleashing a blast of energy equivalent to a nuclear explosion and creating a nuclear explosion by splitting an atom.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So we see Prime Trapper narrating or are you just assuming it's him? I just want to be clear before I bother getting the issue.

No, it's specifically said that he'd use Otherworld as a conduit for destroying the Multiverse:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16631813_Thor-Zone-007.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16631814_Thor-Zone-008.jpg

Asgard? What are you talking about? His energies were redirected by the one being who can render them harmless:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16631815_Thor-Zone-017.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16631816_Thor-Zone-018.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16631818_Thor-Zone-019.jpg

That scan outright says that Time Trapper did what he did by pruning that small sliver of space/time:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16624864_AdventuresOfSuperman444p04and05.jpg

Nowhere even close to Surtur's level of sheer raw power. There's a difference between unleashing a blast of energy equivalent to a nuclear explosion and creating a nuclear explosion by splitting an atom.
No, we see him on the last page.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/16631922_22.jpg

It was just a way to create a chain reaction to destroy the nine realms which are separate dimensions.

Trapper created a universe from that time and it still had all the planet and stars which he destroyed untill only two planets remained.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/16631915_11.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/16631917_12.jpg


Are you blind or something? Your BS aside Trapper casually destroying a whole universe in seconds shits on Odin shunting Surtur's energies to asgard-space which later burned that space too.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16032764/Sur12.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16032762/Sur10.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16032763/Sur11.jpg.html

That fire alone wasn't universal and Odin didn't render it harmless either.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, we see him on the last page.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/16631922_22.jpg

It was just a way to create a chain reaction to destroy the nine realms which are separate dimensions.

Trapper created a universe from that time and it still had all the planet and stars which he destroyed untill only two planets remained.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/16631915_11.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/16631917_12.jpg

Okay, that's fair. Assuming that is Prime Trapper, you still have to prove that all the history applies to this version. Normally I wouldn't be so critical of a character's background, but Brainiac very specifically told us that his history is in constant flux.

no expression

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16631915/11.jpg.html

"And removing a slice of the cosmos, a fraction of time so small it could not be measured...yet contained within it all the Star's and planets of a whole Universe."

Time Trapper stole a piece of time/space from the past that would contain everything. And then he pruned the unwanted from that section. What don't you understand? Well, whatever agree to disagree as Odin's feat is still significantly better.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Are you blind or something? Your BS aside Trapper casually destroying a whole universe in seconds shits on Odin shunting Surtur's energies to asgard-space which later burned that space too.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16032764/Sur12.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16032762/Sur10.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16032763/Sur11.jpg.html

That fire alone wasn't universal and Odin didn't render it harmless either.

What are you talking about? The fire was Universal at least and using Otherworld as a conduit to amplify/channel the energies, would burn the Multiverse. This was explicitly pointed out:
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
No, it's specifically said that he'd use Otherworld as a conduit for destroying the Multiverse:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16631813_Thor-Zone-007.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16631814_Thor-Zone-008.jpg

Asgard? What are you talking about? His energies were redirected by the one being who can render them harmless:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16631815_Thor-Zone-017.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16631816_Thor-Zone-018.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16631818_Thor-Zone-019.jpg


Odin shunted the energies into Asgard-Space where they would burn harmlessly. How does this change anything? I thought I made it very clear to you already that under Fraction, each of the Nine worlds are infinite Universes onto themselves. Asgard Space isn't the same Asgard that's on Earth.

ares834
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
No, it's specifically said that he'd use Otherworld as a conduit for destroying the Multiverse:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16631813_Thor-Zone-007.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16631814_Thor-Zone-008.jpg

While Otherworld serves as a conduit Surtur also hints it will amplify the fire.

Here is what he says in issue 20, "Otherworld is the home of all magic. It connects with all other realms. To strike a match there would make all realities a pyre, all universes kindling."

abhilegend
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Okay, that's fair. Assuming that is Prime Trapper, you still have to prove that all the history applies to this version. Normally I wouldn't be so critical of a character's background, but Brainiac very specifically told us that his history is in constant flux.

no expression

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16631915/11.jpg.html

"And removing a slice of the cosmos, a fraction of time so small it could not be measured...yet contained within it all the Star's and planets of a whole Universe."

Time Trapper stole a piece of time/space from the past that would contain everything. And then he pruned the unwanted from that section. What don't you understand? Well, whatever agree to disagree as Odin's feat is still significantly better.



What are you talking about? The fire was Universal at least and using Otherworld as a conduit to amplify/channel the energies, would burn the Multiverse. This was explicitly pointed out:


Odin shunted the energies into Asgard-Space where they would burn harmlessly. How does this change anything? I thought I made it very clear to you already that under Fraction, each of the Nine worlds are infinite Universes onto themselves. Asgard Space isn't the same Asgard that's on Earth.
Haha, what? It directly states "to be continued in legion of three worlds" and you still want me to prove that it was prime trapper?

laughing out loud

Yes, he sliced the time but he destroyed everything else after doing that. I'm not sure why are you continuing this BS when just the next panel states he destroyed everything untill only two planets remained.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16631917/12.jpg.html

I will let Mr. Master speak for myself.

Originally posted by Mr Master
============================

I decided to research the recent Surtur/Odin event more closely since I was
debating off the scans posted in this thread without having read the arc.
I used judgement based on my own knowledge concerning Marvel Cosmography
and what made sense with said scans posted.
I came to the conclusion that the power Surtur amassed was Not "universal"
but rather 'pocket-universal' .. I called it a "mini-cosmos" ...
(which is the Pocket-universe containing Asgard as one of the Nine Realms)
It's actually called the "Sea of Space" ... sometimes referred to as "Asgard-Space"

Well,
since it was suggested I had evil plans due to my opinionated conclusion,
I got my hands on the entire arc and read it fully
and not surprisingly I found out I was right all along.

============================


Anyway ... from the get we know only the "Nine Realms" are in danger here:

(excerpt from the inside cover writer's prologue)



-------------------------------------------


"Surtur, his city will destroy the Nine Realms of Yggdrasil"

-------------------------------------------




"Manchester Gods are Surtur's conduit ... which threatens the Nine Realms"

-------------------------------------------




============================


When Surtur's "conduit" is destroyed, All the power he's collected is again,
a threat to the Nine Realms ... in fact, that's the Only thing that was gonna burn here:



-------------------------------------------


This really isn't shocking, I mean all this power Surtur gathered,
was from the Nine Worlds anyway:



-------------------------------------------


All they need is a "Conduit" to get rid of this problem.
Thor doesn't have the power to get this done. Welcome Odin.

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16033018_Sur13.jpg



Odin was in the Pocket-Reality that housed Asgard,
known as the Sea of Space or Asgard Space:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16033019_Sur14.jpg


*** Continues below **** Originally posted by Mr Master
============================


The Odin scenario:

============================


So, Odin is in the Sea of Space, Davis chose the other term used, "Asgard-Space,"
which is the same Pocket-universe.
Odin is tricked by Loki & Leah to help Thor.
Odin opens a dimensional-portal and they appear on the battlefield with Surtur:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16033020_Sur15.jpg

------------------------------------------


Surtur explodes, the fire-power is released.
Odin does not block, absorb or withstand the flames,
instead he shunts the flames through the portal he came from:




It does seem Odin is directing the flames through the portal:




============================


Cool.

So, what happened to the "all-consuming" Flame-Power Surtur had collected?

Where did Odin guide these energies to?

Did they burn away an entire Universe where they landed?


============================


Odin is pissed not only cause he was tricked into helping Thor,
but also cause the place where he guided Surtur's burning-power through the portal
was "Asgard-Space" (as I suspected before reading this story myself)


Here's Odin, peering into a ball witnessing Asgard-Space burning:

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16032764_Sur12.jpg



Surutr's power being released into "Asgard-Space"

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16032762_Sur10.jpg



Odin opens another portal to "Asgard-Space" (we see Fire withIN the portal)

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16032763_Sur11.jpg


============================


So, what are we left with?

1) All the power Surtur collected was enough to burn the Pocket-Dimension containing Asgard,
known as the "Sea of Space" or "Asgard-Space."

2) Surtur nor Odin ever acted on an actual "Universal" scale in this arc.

3) Odin never affected any Eternity and/or any Universe's Space-Time.

4) Odin was able to open a Conduit and shunt Surtur's power
into the Pocket-Dimension containing Asgard.

============================


IMO! based on what I read/saw.

Surtur was threatening nine realms by the power he had collected from the nine realms. It wasn't universal in any sense of the world. Also shunting something through a portal isn't something power related. I can find herald level beings shunting that level of power. Where did you prove anything about asgard being infinite when its just a pocket dimension?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by ares834
While Otherworld serves as a conduit Surtur also hints it will amplify the fire.

Here is what he says in issue 20, "Otherworld is the home of all magic. It connects with all other realms. To strike a match there would make all realities a pyre, all universes kindling."

Yea we know that Otherworld was used to feed Surtur until he grew to be that powerful. But Loki and the others make it clear in the next issue that Surtur had already collected all the power from Otherworld and his city into himself which is why Odin's feat is particularly impressive.

Or are you saying something else?

Here are the scans for those who are interested:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16632033_Thor-Zone-015.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16632034_Thor-Zone-016.jpg

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, what? It directly states "to be continued in legion of three worlds" and you still want me to prove that it was prime trapper?

laughing out loud

Yes, he sliced the time but he destroyed everything else after doing that. I'm not sure why are you continuing this BS when just the next panel states he destroyed everything untill only two planets remained.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16631917/12.jpg.html

I will let Mr. Master speak for myself.


Surtur was threatening nine realms by the power he had collected from the nine realms. It wasn't universal in any sense of the world. Also shunting something through a portal isn't something power related. I can find herald level beings shunting that level of power. Where did you prove anything about asgard being infinite when its just a pocket dimension?

I said, it's fine. Yes, he destroyed the Universe, but he did so by pruning away at his sliver of time until only the planets he wanted remained. It's like wiping out the human race by stepping on the fish that crawled out of the sea. But like I said, agree to disagree.

Mr. Master's information is outdated about Asgard and the Nine Realms. As I pointed out:
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The Cosmic Axis also connects to not only the Nine Worlds but a much larger Metaverse structrue:
http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16179149_Thor_615_003.jpghttp://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16179150_Thor616-014-015.jpg

The feat was impressive because the World Tree is powerful. For something a bit more recent, the entire Galactus arc as about the World Seed, that will bloom and create the next cycle of creation as everything ends, it's power is unending:
http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16179241_The_Mighty_Thor_2_014-15.jpghttp://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16179236_MightyThor03-014-015.jpghttp://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16179238_MightyThor03-016-017.jpg

Also note that Asgard and all the Nine Worlds are the hearts of their own fully formed Universes like Earth is for the 616, Asgard's is known as Asgard-Space as of Fraction.The Tenth World came from their own Universe which was suffering Entropic Death:
http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16179151_Thor616-016-017.jpghttp://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16179152_Thor616-020-021.jpghttp://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16179153_Thor616-022-023.jpg

Asgard-Space and the rest of the Nine Worlds are all fully fledged Universes. Seriously, how on Earth could you have forgotten all of this so soon?

Odin was specifically called because he was the only one capable of channeling that much power into a place big enough where it could burn without destroying everything.

ares834
The way Surtur describes it seems to indicate that by burning Otherworld it will burn down the Multiverse via a sorta chain reaction. So, while impressive, neither Surtur or Odin are manipulating energies capable of destroying the multiverse through a "direct attack". Rather they are manipulating energies capable of destroying Otherworld.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I said, it's fine. Yes, he destroyed the Universe, but he did so by pruning away at his sliver of time until only the planets he wanted remained. It's like wiping out the human race by stepping on the fish that crawled out of the sea. But like I said, agree to disagree.

Mr. Master's information is outdated about Asgard and the Nine Realms. As I pointed out:


Asgard-Space and the rest of the Nine Worlds are all fully fledged Universes. Seriously, how on Earth could you have forgotten all of this so soon?

Odin was specifically called because he was the only one capable of channeling that much power into a place big enough where it could burn without destroying everything.
Nah, he destroyed the whole universe straight up.

Its still nothing that is noteworthy against destroying a whole universe. Odin shunted it through a portal. Also where in those scans was Asgard stated to be an infinite universe? Asgard has always been a pocket universe and nothing in those scans contradicted it.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by ares834
The way Surtur describes it seems to indicate that by burning Otherworld it will burn down the Multiverse via a sorta chain reaction. So, while impressive, neither Surtur or Odin are manipulating energies capable of destroying the multiverse through a "direct attack". Rather they are manipulating energies capable of destroying Otherworld.

What Surtur meant was that by burning Otherworld, his fire would spread to all other Universes. Like he said, "Fire grows.". This might have been open to interpretation before but in the next issue, Loki very specifically clarified what was happening.

How would just burning Otherworld destroy the rest of the Multiverse? That doesn't even make sense.

ares834
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What Surtur meant was that by burning Otherworld, his fire would spread to all other Universes. Like he said, "Fire grows.". This might have been open to interpretation before but in the next issue, Loki very specifically clarified what was happening.

How would just burning Otherworld destroy the rest of the Multiverse? That doesn't even make sense.

I'd assume Surtur would know more about his plan than Loki. Not to mention Loki doesn't contradict the notion that Otherworld will sorta fuel his fire or whatever.

And magic.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by abhilegend
Nah, he destroyed the whole universe straight up.

Its still nothing that is noteworthy against destroying a whole universe. Odin shunted it through a portal. Also where in those scans was Asgard stated to be an infinite universe? Asgard has always been a pocket universe and nothing in those scans contradicted it.

Whatever you say. If you wanted people to think that, you shouldn't have posted the scans that you did.

Lol.

"What you know as worlds are Universes. Complex, discrete, fully-formed. Look. You've take the heart of one of those Universes and put it inside of another."

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16179150/Thor616-014-015.jpg.html

Asgard is a fully formed Universe. He even describes taking the heart of Asgard and putting into another Universe (616).

Not to mention the rest of my scans. But whatever.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by ares834
I'd assume Surtur would know more about his plan than Loki. Not to mention Loki doesn't contradict the notion that Otherworld will sorta fuel his fire or whatever.

And magic.

Maybe, but probably not. But seriously, Loki had a very vital role in this story. If your view point needs to ignore his statement, you need to re-examine your position. Loki clarified very clearly what Otherworld's role in this was. What Surtur said could be taken your way but I don't see how that's possible after the following issue. Me, I think it's pretty obvious that Surtur meant unleashing a fire in Otherworld would spread his fire (Through the conduits) into the rest of the Multiverse:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16632034/Thor-Zone-016.jpg.html

Still doesn't make any sense. Why use those conduits to other realities when he could simply destroy Otherworld itself?

You're open to this interpretation, but it kind of flies in the face of most of this story. Just saying.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Whatever you say. If you wanted people to think that, you shouldn't have posted the scans that you did.

Lol.

"What you know as worlds are Universes. Complex, discrete, fully-formed. Look. You've take the heart of one of those Universes and put it inside of another."

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16179150/Thor616-014-015.jpg.html

Asgard is a fully formed Universe. He even describes taking the heart of Asgard and putting into another Universe (616).

Not to mention the rest of my scans. But whatever.
Whatever you say rage.

And where did it say it was infinite? Asgard was and is a pocket universe. Replacing its heart whatever that is with another universe which wasn't even mentioned as 616 universe and claiming that makes asgard an infinite universe is just laughable when even 616 universe isn't infinite.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by abhilegend
Whatever you say rage.

And where did it say it was infinite? Asgard was and is a pocket universe. Replacing its heart whatever that is with another universe which wasn't even mentioned as 616 universe and claiming that makes asgard an infinite universe is just laughable when even 616 universe isn't infinite.

The writer very specifically said that the Nine Worlds are fully formed Universes. Post a more recent scan that says Asgard-Space is a pocket Universe.

He's talking about Thor moving Asgard to Midgard which is part of the 616 Universe, but okay. I didn't mean infinite on the same scale as a Multiverse, I meant infinite on the same scale of the Universe. I thought that was obvious but sorry for the confusion.

Also, in regards to feats, Odin's dark counter part held his Universe's entropy at bay through sheer force of will.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The writer very specifically said that the Nine Worlds are fully formed Universes. Post a more recent scan that says Asgard-Space is a pocket Universe.

He's talking about Thor moving Asgard to Midgard which is part of the 616 Universe, but okay. I didn't mean infinite on the same scale as a Multiverse, I meant infinite on the same scale of the Universe. I thought that was obvious but sorry for the confusion.

Also, in regards to feats, Odin's dark counter part held his Universe's entropy at bay through sheer force of will.
And it still doesn't mean much in terms of power. Odin merely shunted the fire through a portal, he didn't render it harmless as you said. Captain Atom has done better than that, Animal man with two other morphogenic field users have done better than that, Byrne superman+Ray+Darkstar+Captain Atom have done better than that, etc.

Ok. Its still just a shunting feat.

Amped by the actual abstracts Infinity as retconned in Quasar. Time-Trapper IS entropy and not puny entropy of MU. In DC entropy kills universes and shit. The entire Zero hour was based upon Parallax absorbing Trapper's power and Parallax destroyed an infinite number of timelines which were full universes by that power. Hell Time-Trapper while being absolutely powerless was maintaining the whole 31st century universe by his power and Glorith tapping in Trapper's power destroyed the whole universe.

jitay
Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Am I the only one who thinks that there has to have been some mad orgies in the entire of the Legions run? dude really

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What Surtur meant was that by burning Otherworld, his fire would spread to all other Universes. Like he said, "Fire grows.". This might have been open to interpretation before but in the next issue, Loki very specifically clarified what was happening.

How would just burning Otherworld destroy the rest of the Multiverse? That doesn't even make sense.
It was hardly open to interpretation. Which was in line with Surtur's explanation.

Because, apart from housing an omniversal/multiversal nexus, Otherworld has traditionally been an access point to all realities? Or the fact that it was described as being the home of all magic in the series?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by abhilegend
And it still doesn't mean much in terms of power. Odin merely shunted the fire through a portal, he didn't render it harmless as you said. Captain Atom has done better than that, Animal man with two other morphogenic field users have done better than that, Byrne superman+Ray+Darkstar+Captain Atom have done better than that, etc.

Ok. Its still just a shunting feat.

Amped by the actual abstracts Infinity as retconned in Quasar. Time-Trapper IS entropy and not puny entropy of MU. In DC entropy kills universes and shit. The entire Zero hour was based upon Parallax absorbing Trapper's power and Parallax destroyed an infinite number of timelines which were full universes by that power. Hell Time-Trapper while being absolutely powerless was maintaining the whole 31st century universe by his power and Glorith tapping in Trapper's power destroyed the whole universe.

Shunted? Surtur exploded. Odin did not only have to manipulate the energies so it didn't harm anyone, he negated the energies as he threw them into Asgard Space:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16635827_Thor-Zone-001.jpg

All of which he did casually. I don't care about what anyone else did, stick to the topic at hand. We're comparing Odin's feat vs. the Time Trapper feat that you presented.

Smh, you didn't even look at the scans I posted. I'm talking about this scene:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16179151/Thor616-016-017.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16179152/Thor616-020-021.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16179153/Thor616-022-023.jpg.html

I was going to counter and reply to that but unless you can prove those apply to Prime Trapper, I don't see the point.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
It was hardly open to interpretation. Which was in line with Surtur's explanation.

Because, apart from housing an omniversal/multiversal nexus, Otherworld has traditionally been an access point to all realities? Or the fact that it was described as being the home of all magic in the series?

erm

Are you sure you replied to the right post? Because that's what I said.

Surtur's power would have destroyed the Multiverse using Otherworld to spread his power into every reality. Without Otherworld, it's still enough to consume whichever Universe he's in but wouldn't destroy everything.

Sundipped
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Do you happen to have a scan of that? It's nothing beyond what Odin is capable of but I just don't remember seeing it in the arc.

What Mordru depowering the legion?

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/bea4fbe6-f491-4790-a1a2-44d4f90acfe6_zps362f5ef7.jpg

If you didn't remember that, then you probably don't emember the fact that White Witch took Mordru's power and then one shot a majority of the LoSV either.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16636166_FinalCrisisLegionofThreeWorlds5-6.jpg

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What issue did Prime Trapper take on a Multiverse of Legions? Actually, I'll just get the whole arc. Did he actually one shot them or did he just knock them off his feet? Neither is really impressive at this level but I just want to be clear.

In Lo3W 5 the LoSH sent out a distress call to all legionnaires.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/legion-of-3-worlds-every-legionnaire-ever_zps9d7f663a.jpg

The fight was moreso him taking everything they dished out but he couldn't be defeated until Prime tried to punch him. The glitch shunted SBP back to Earth Prime.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16636165_FinalCrisisLegionofThreeWorlds5-8.jpg

LordofBrooklyn
The White Witch is a problem for Odin.

There is no way that One-Eye can dismiss the power of Mordru combined with the power of the Witch.

cdtm
Originally posted by Sundipped

The fight was moreso him taking everything they dished out but he couldn't be defeated until Prime tried to punch him. The glitch shunted SBP back to Earth Prime.

At one point he did knock out the heavy hitters, including Sodam Yat.

And IMO, Rage is kind of downplaying the Legion of Super Heroes.. (Although he's not the only one..) IMO, a single Legion could defeat a skyfather. Mordru is Skyfather level himself, arguably.

Three of them, including substitutes and honoraries?

abhilegend
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Shunted? Surtur exploded. Odin did not only have to manipulate the energies so it didn't harm anyone, he negated the energies as he threw them into Asgard Space:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16635827_Thor-Zone-001.jpg

All of which he did casually. I don't care about what anyone else did, stick to the topic at hand. We're comparing Odin's feat vs. the Time Trapper feat that you presented.

Smh, you didn't even look at the scans I posted. I'm talking about this scene:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16179151/Thor616-016-017.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16179152/Thor616-020-021.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16179153/Thor616-022-023.jpg.html

I was going to counter and reply to that but unless you can prove those apply to Prime Trapper, I don't see the point.
The energies were still burning asgard space after Odin shunted it and he saw it through a portal. Using a narration box over the actual on panel evidence is laughable.

Nothing but a shunting feat.

Prime Trapper is Time-trapper's one identity among various identities. Why would I try to prove something that's already proven by his own admission that he was the one who tormented the legion by creating pocket universes and what not? What kind of shit is this?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Sundipped
What Mordru depowering the legion?

If you didn't remember that, then you probably don't emember the fact that White Witch took Mordru's power and then one shot a majority of the LoSV either.



Okay, so I re-read the mini. You're right, with the power boost Mordru received, he started (A distinction worth noting) draining the powers of some Legion members and transferring it into the evil Legion:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16648697/Final_Crisis-_Legion_of_Three_Worlds_005-007.jpg.html

Which is pretty impressive, but he's facing Odin here.

Originally posted by Sundipped
In Lo3W 5 the LoSH sent out a distress call to all legionnaires.

The fight was moreso him taking everything they dished out but he couldn't be defeated until Prime tried to punch him. The glitch shunted SBP back to Earth Prime.




Lol? Prime Time Trapper was straight up knocked unconscious, even though it was temporary. Anyways, here's the entire fight against the Prime Time Trapper:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16648692_Final_Crisis-_Legion_of_Three_Worlds_004-028.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16648693_Final_Crisis-_Legion_of_Three_Worlds_004-029.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16648694_Final_Crisis-_Legion_of_Three_Worlds_004-030.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16648695_Final_Crisis-_Legion_of_Three_Worlds_005-003.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16648696_Final_Crisis-_Legion_of_Three_Worlds_005-005.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16648701_Final_Crisis-_Legion_of_Three_Worlds_005-008.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16648707_Final_Crisis-_Legion_of_Three_Worlds_005-009.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16648712_Final_Crisis-_Legion_of_Three_Worlds_005-010.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16648716_Final_Crisis-_Legion_of_Three_Worlds_005-015.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16648717_Final_Crisis-_Legion_of_Three_Worlds_005-016.jpg

This guy is pretty powerful, definitely above Herald level. But he's maybe superior to Superboy Prime in stats with some time manipulation powers. Unless you try and apply past feats to him (Which I find extremely sketchy due to the nature of the entity itself), this dude has absolutely no business being in the same room with Odin on his better days. And it should be noted, that of the Legion members present, only a few number actually attacked Prime.

Also lol, Conner did better then I even remembered against Prime.

Sundipped
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Okay, so I re-read the mini. You're right, with the power boost Mordru received, he started (A distinction worth noting) draining the powers of some Legion members and transferring it into the evil Legion:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16648697/Final_Crisis-_Legion_of_Three_Worlds_005-007.jpg.html

While you choose to focus on a "distinction" I'm looking at what the White Witch did. She wasted LoSV's just off transformation alone (into the Black Witch) with Mordru's power. Mordru would be fully capable of wrecking any team like that under his own power.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Which is pretty impressive, but he's facing Odin here.

Ok but this is Mordru with all the mystical power of a universe. Even though the necessary feats aren't displayed, that fact alone should indicate this is a somewhat high level force. I don't care if universe 247 was just a pocket universe, it would still be impressive. Most rank Mordru in the skyfather tier as is.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol ? Prime Time Trapper was straight up knocked unconscious, even though it was temporary. Anyways, here's the entire fight against the Prime Time Trapper:

This guy is pretty powerful, definitely above Herald level. But he's maybe superior to Superboy Prime in stats with some time manipulation powers. Unless you try and apply past feats to him (Which I find extremely sketchy due to the nature of the entity itself), this dude has absolutely no business being in the same room with Odin on his better days. And it should be noted, that of the Legion members present, only a few number actually attacked Prime.

Out for what.... a minute? And as we saw, Prime and Prime Trapper were what ultimately defeated themselves.

I never wanted to apply past feats. I just alerted you to the Entity appearing in the arc. The one who is seen propelling Prime through time and blasting Superman, Saturn Girl, Lighting Lad, and Cosmic Boy all at once. Nowhere is It stated in the op that he's not applicable. I asked for specification because that's the one I prefer to use.

You would be wrong in your assumption that the only legionnaires that participated in this battle were what is only shown on panel. Unless you're under the presumption that the distress signal was was of only minor importance and there was no code red type of threat that would garner that much attention. The writer isn't going to show every single legionnaire in attack mode but you can kinda get the gist of what's taking place. No question a lot more fighting was taking place off panel.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
lol, Conner did better then I even remembered against Prime.

lol, Connor had help from Bart, the legion etc. and they still couldn't put him down. How did you like scene with Superboy reminiscing when he was beat to a pulp?

LordofBrooklyn
Rage, do you see Mordru as an equal to Odin?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Sundipped
While you choose to focus on a "distinction" I'm looking at what the White Witch did. She wasted LoSV's just off transformation alone (into the Black Witch) with Mordru's power. Mordru would be fully capable of wrecking any team like that under his own power.

Paying attention to detail is important. Also, what the Black Witch did with that power is irrelevant as feats don't transfer like that. Not that one-shotting some Metas is noteworthy, but still.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Ok but this is Mordru with all the mystical power of a universe. Even though the necessary feats aren't displayed, that fact alone should indicate this is a somewhat high level force. I don't care if universe 247 was just a pocket universe, it would still be impressive. Most rank Mordru in the skyfather tier as is.

The most impressive thing this Mordru did was partially drain the power out of like a dozen Legion members (Who aren't exactly High Heralds) and torture Golem. And then he was owned with one counter spell from his understudy.

I'm sorry, but those being his only feats in that incarnation is pretty bad. This isn't some random Skyfather who lacks feats and something of this nature would be noteworthy.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Out for what.... a minute? And as we saw, Prime and Prime Trapper were what ultimately defeated themselves.

I never wanted to apply past feats. I just alerted you to the Entity appearing in the arc. The one who is seen propelling Prime through time and blasting Superman, Saturn Girl, Lighting Lad, and Cosmic Boy all at once. Nowhere is It stated in the op that he's not applicable. I asked for specification because that's the one I prefer to use.

You very specifically said that it was just Prime tanking attacks that could not put him down. But he was down and out. That's a very important fact to leave out.

laughing out loud

Yea, a sucker shot from Prime Trapper only knocking Superman, Lighting Lad, Cosmic Boy, and Saturn Girl off their feet definitely helps his case against Odin instead of making him look meh:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16650314_Final_Crisis-_Legion_of_Three_Worlds_004-011.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16650315_Final_Crisis-_Legion_of_Three_Worlds_004-012.jpg

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16650318_Final_Crisis-_Legion_of_Three_Worlds_004-028.jpg

erm

Originally posted by Sundipped
You would be wrong in your assumption that the only legionnaires that participated in this battle were what is only shown on panel. Unless you're under the presumption that the distress signal was was of only minor importance and there was no code red type of threat that would garner that much attention. The writer isn't going to show every single legionnaire in attack mode but you can kinda get the gist of what's taking place. No question a lot more fighting was taking place off panel.

laughing out loud

You're going to have to post some evidence to support that.

Originally posted by Sundipped
lol, Connor had help from Bart, the legion etc. and they still couldn't put him down. How did you like scene with Superboy reminiscing when he was beat to a pulp?

Probably more then Prime as he was getting his teeth fed to him at the time.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Rage, do you see Mordru as an equal to Odin?

Some depictions can be competitive to an extent, some aren't. But in short, no.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Some depictions can be competitive to an extent, some aren't. But in short, no.

LIES!

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
LIES!

I think Legion Mordru could be pretty damn powerful and is a good match for Odin but modern Mordru was a lot more meh.

Golgo13
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I think Legion Mordru could be pretty damn powerful and is a good match for Odin but modern Mordru was a lot more meh.

Which modern Mordru?

the Darkone
Odin
Gaea
Frigga
Freyja
Bor
Hela
Twiaz Buri
Thor
Silver Surfer
Beta Ray Bill
Loki
Kurse
Warriors Three
Balder
Tyr
Sif
Valkyrie
Echantress
Karnilla
Vider
Hermond
Destroyer Armor
Casket of Winters
and other arifacts, Asgard wins

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
erm

Are you sure you replied to the right post? Because that's what I said.

Surtur's power would have destroyed the Multiverse using Otherworld to spread his power into every reality. Without Otherworld, it's still enough to consume whichever Universe he's in but wouldn't destroy everything.
It honestly appears as if you made it sound like the creation-burning fire operates at the same scope irrespective of Otherworld or not.

Loki and Surtur's explanation of events about to transpire were pretty much this: throwing the fire into Otherworld would have been akin to flinging a lighter into a lake of gasoline. Surtur's fire on its own could only raze a single reality, Otherworld would have exponentially amped its power to a multiversal scale.

Apart from the above-mentioned little tidbit, I agree with your side of the debate mostly in this thread regarding Odin's recent feats.

TheGodKiller
From a writer's perspective, any 2 high herald level characters can cause a similar scope of damage.

Writers, unlike battleboarders, are only limited by characters traits and powersets after all. thumb up

Batman-Prime
This Team has too many Herald level beings.

DarkOdin
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
It honestly appears as if you made it sound like the creation-burning fire operates at the same scope irrespective of Otherworld or not.

Loki and Surtur's explanation of events about to transpire were pretty much this: throwing the fire into Otherworld would have been akin to flinging a lighter into a lake of gasoline. Surtur's fire on its own could only raze a single reality, Otherworld would have exponentially amped its power to a multiversal scale.

Apart from the above-mentioned little tidbit, I agree with your side of the debate mostly in this thread regarding Odin's recent feats. It didn't amp the fire but acted as a door way to the rest of the reailtes

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by DarkOdin
It didn't amp the fire but acted as a door way to the rest of the reailtes
The way Surtur and Loki were talking about it, the fire did would have done exactly what I said.

A flaming matchstick can't burn a mountain on its own, but dip it in an ocean of petrol....phew!

Sundipped
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Paying attention to detail is important. Also, what the Black Witch did with that power is irrelevant as feats don't transfer like that. Not that one-shotting some Metas is noteworthy, but still.

High meta to mid herald range but are you actually saying Mordru couldn't have done it. Do you actually need to be shown Mordru doing it? Spend some time applying logic instead of downplaying.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The most impressive thing this Mordru did was partially drain the power out of like a dozen Legion members (Who aren't exactly High Heralds) and torture Golem. And then he was owned with one counter spell from his understudy.

I'm sorry, but those being his only feats in that incarnation is pretty bad. This isn't some random Skyfather who lacks feats and something of this nature would be noteworthy.

He was owned by his own spell. WW used Mordru's own incantation against him. Not a counter. With you pointing out how I left out information you turn around and do the same. Kinda hypocritical.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/74330a55-89b7-493e-ac14-04ea0c68cf62_zpseaa084c2.jpg

Mordru has gone blow for blow with Nabu. A being who was giving DOV Spectre problems. Now with the power of a universe behind him, you don't think Odin would have any major problems? He had no low showings in this arc and that energy manipulation feat by WW is something that could be used against Asgard being that it was Mordru's power anyway.

Another thing, let's say Odin appears in an arc but doesn't do much. Would that incarnation always lose by default to a being considered his peer because of a lack of feats from said arc?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You very specifically said that it was just Prime tanking attacks that could not put him down. But he was down and out. That's a very important fact to leave out.

Yea, a sucker shot from Prime Trapper only knocking Superman, Lighting Lad, Cosmic Boy, and Saturn Girl off their feet definitely helps his case against Odin instead of making him look meh:

He tanked a multiverse worth of legion attacks and was only koed a minute which isn't bad at all.

It's pretty clear that before Trapper Prime was revealed, the threat of Time Trapper was assessed by a alternate Brainiac as something that can eradicate universes.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/e4702288-04a1-4e61-9f1c-664c769054f4_zps88ec6c92.jpg

It's just that this particular idea of becoming Trapper Prime didn't go as planed because Prime wasn't intrested in helping.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You're going to have to post some evidence to support that.

Instructions from Brainiac 5:
"you need to weaken Time Trapper as much as you can, right now"

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/b2f2286a-7212-4ac6-8a40-dec85ff8928c_zpsbe01a481.jpg

^ Obviously, the legionnaires already present weren't sufficient. Pretty sure Johns is letting the reader know that this will take a TOTAL team effort.


Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Probably more then Prime as he was getting his teeth fed to him at the time.

Imaginary loose teeth>>>beat to death

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Sundipped
High meta to mid herald range but are you actually saying Mordru couldn't have done it. Do you actually need to be shown Mordru doing it? Spend some time applying logic instead of downplaying.

Mordru didn't accomplish it, he only started. You said he did. Excuse me for clarifying and not being misleading.

Originally posted by Sundipped
He was owned by his own spell. WW used Mordru's own incantation against him. Not a counter. With you pointing out how I left out information you turn around and do the same. Kinda hypocritical.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/74330a55-89b7-493e-ac14-04ea0c68cf62_zpseaa084c2.jpg

I didn't mean the counter-spell was her own invention. You posted the scan and I specified she was his understudy. Thought that was obvious, my apologies.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Mordru has gone blow for blow with Nabu. A being who was giving DOV Spectre problems. Now with the power of a universe behind him, you don't think Odin would have any major problems? He had no low showings in this arc and that energy manipulation feat by WW is something that could be used against Asgard being that it was Mordru's power anyway.

No, not with what how he was portrayed in his arc I'm afraid. His big feat was draining some power of a dozen Legion members. erm

No it cannot. White Witch absorbing all of Mordru's power into herself is irrelevant as to what Mordru can accomplish. Not only would she have more power, we saw that when the chips are down, she's the craftier magician.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Another thing, let's say Odin appears in an arc but doesn't do much. Would that incarnation always lose by default to a being considered his peer because of a lack of feats from said arc?

If Odin doesn't do much, that's fine. But if everything that he does do is incredibly mediocre and very much unimpressive, then I'd wager this Odin isn't very powerful in regards to portrayals.

Originally posted by Sundipped
He tanked a multiverse worth of legion attacks and was only koed a minute which isn't bad at all.

Correction, he tanked attacks from some Legion members of a Multiverse of Legions.

Originally posted by Sundipped
It's pretty clear that before Trapper Prime was revealed, the threat of Time Trapper was assessed by a alternate Brainiac as something that can eradicate universes.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/e4702288-04a1-4e61-9f1c-664c769054f4_zps88ec6c92.jpg

It's just that this particular idea of becoming Trapper Prime didn't go as planed because Prime wasn't intrested in helping.

That's cool but I have no idea how you think that overrides his actual fight which is far more relevant in a vs. thread? Especially since that talks about his potential and possible threat level and Time Trapper is known to mess with time. Which issue is that scan from incidentally?

Originally posted by Sundipped
Instructions from Brainiac 5:
"you need to weaken Time Trapper as much as you can, right now"

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/b2f2286a-7212-4ac6-8a40-dec85ff8928c_zpsbe01a481.jpg

^ Obviously, the legionnaires already present weren't sufficient. Pretty sure Johns is letting the reader know that this will take a TOTAL team effort.

Possibly, but using such flimsy logic to assume that every single Legion member attacked Prime Trapper off-panel is a completely different animal and needs to be supported by actual scans.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Sundipped
Mordru has gone blow for blow with Nabu. A being who was giving DOV Spectre problems. Now with the power of a universe behind him, you don't think Odin would have any major problems? He had no low showings in this arc and that energy manipulation feat by WW is something that could be used against Asgard being that it was Mordru's power anyway. Different Mordru?

Sundipped
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Mordru didn't accomplish it, he only started. You said he did. Excuse me for clarifying and not being misleading.



I didn't mean the counter-spell was her own invention. You posted the scan and I specified she was his understudy. Thought that was obvious, my apologies.



No, not with what how he was portrayed in his arc I'm afraid. His big feat was draining some power of a dozen Legion members. erm

No it cannot. White Witch absorbing all of Mordru's power into herself is irrelevant as to what Mordru can accomplish. Not only would she have more power, we saw that when the chips are down, she's the craftier magician.



If Odin doesn't do much, that's fine. But if everything that he does do is incredibly mediocre and very much unimpressive, then I'd wager this Odin isn't very powerful in regards to portrayals.



Correction, he tanked attacks from some Legion members of a Multiverse of Legions.



That's cool but I have no idea how you think that overrides his actual fight which is far more relevant in a vs. thread? Especially since that talks about his potential and possible threat level and Time Trapper is known to mess with time. Which issue is that scan from incidentally?



Possibly, but using such flimsy logic to assume that every single Legion member attacked Prime Trapper off-panel is a completely different animal and needs to be supported by actual scans.


1. You still didn't answer the question.

2. Ok it just sounded like you were trying to make Mordru out to be some weak feeb or something.

3. You didn't answer the question, would Odin lose or not?

4. Yeah, I'd wager a high number.

5.It doesn't but I didn't see the word potential there. Lo3W 2.

6. Maybe not every single one but a good majority.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Sundipped
1. You still didn't answer the question.

2. Ok it just sounded like you were trying to make Mordru out to be some weak feeb or something.

3. You didn't answer the question, would Odin lose or not?

4. Yeah, I'd wager a high number.

5.It doesn't but I didn't see the word potential there. Lo3W 2.

6. Maybe not every single one but a good majority.

1. Yes, if you claim Mordru did something, you need to post scans of him doing so. I thought that went without saying?

2. I don't need to do that. Posting scans from the comic does that for me. shifty

3. Lose to who? I'm unclear by what you meant here.

4. I'd wager that the only Legion members that you can conclusively claim attacked Prime Time Trapper, are the only ones that we see attacking him. Because that's how things work.

5. I'll be more specific then, he said: could.

6. Prove it.

quanchi112
Asgard, handily.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.