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Sinestro
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/SIN_zpsad3bf5b5.jpg
Alan Scott (W/Starheart)
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/AS_zps80c94c1f.jpg
Cyborg Superman
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/CYB_zpscea98905.jpg
Atrocitus
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/ATRO_zps3ed18666.jpg
Mongul Jr.
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/MON_zpsbc7786ae.jpg
Black Hand
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/BH2_zps7a04bd3a.jpg

vs

Silver Surfer
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/SS_zps55936788.jpg
Starbrand
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/SB_zpsd43ef557.jpg
Black Bolt
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/BB_zps40f5caca.jpg
Quasar
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/QS_zpsab250629.jpg
Beta Ray Bill
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/BRB_zpsb082ce6c.jpg
Nova
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/NO_zpsba7bb820.jpg

how powerful is black hand?

i dont Know Team 1 has Atrocitus and Black Hand

This Alan is by far the biggest player here. Villains stomp

Starbrand might pose a valid treat still

Doesn`t this boil down to Starheart vs Starbrand?

Not sure but Villains got my vote for now.

Marvel Takes this because the Starbrand is one of the most powerful things in comics,
and Silver Surfer (when he's not being underused)

I'm rolling with the cheese here...

Originally posted by complexbrother
Marvel Takes this because the Starbrand is WAS one of the most powerful things in comics,
and Silver Surfer (when he's not being underused)
People, the Starbrand has been retconned. All the New Universe stuff from the 80s, Gruenwald's version in the 90s, and the Untold Tales of the New Universe showings are gone! They were retconned by Ellis in New Universal and Hickman is continuing where Ellis left off.

So the only valid showings for the Starbrand are anything from New Universal (not impressive............at all) and whatever Hickman did with it since then. At BEST, it's a trans level power item (and that's me being generous).

As to the thread, I'm going with Team Marvel because Surfer, Quasar and BRB can do some funky stuff with their powers and BFR isn't off.

Why is Nova here?

Alan wins for the villains.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Why is Nova here?

Alan wins for the villains. Then u should ask why is Quasar here too..

Starbrand just took out a fleet with a wave of his hands and this fleet took on and defeated Earth major defense, the Skrulls empire, Shiar Empire, along with more powerful forces. That alone is skyfather plus, probably abstract. The moral of this post is, don't listen to Zop Zop.

Forgot to add...that same fleet, one ship, put Captain Universe in a coma.

Really Surfer is the only person on his team worth a damn, Bill & Bolt can put up a fight...

But really this is just another spite thread.

So Surfer is above the Starbrand?

Please. Had these villains been defending Earth, the fleet would have disappeared. :-p

Originally posted by carver9
So Surfer is above the Starbrand?
In feats yes,...do you not think surfer could replicate the feats?

Originally posted by carver9
Starbrand just took out a fleet with a wave of his hands and this fleet took on and defeated Earth major defense, the Skrulls empire, Shiar Empire, along with more powerful forces. That alone is skyfather plus, probably abstract. The moral of this post is, don't listen to Zop Zop.

Defeating a powerful fleet is abstract level now? *****, please.

Originally posted by Cogito
Defeating a powerful fleet is abstract level now? *****, please.

one shoting Thor Hyperion and Hulk without knowing how to use the damn thing is certainly above herald though

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Really Surfer is the only person on his team worth a damn, Bill & Bolt can put up a fight...

But really this is just another spite thread.

talking about underestimating Quasar and Nova here

Originally posted by pym-ftw
In feats yes,...do you not think surfer could replicate the feats?

Lol...so you think Surfer at half power can take on Hulk, Thor, Hyperion, Ironman, etc...not only take them on but brush off their attacks. If your answer is yes, provide a scan proving your case.

Originally posted by Cogito
Defeating a powerful fleet is abstract level now? *****, please.

If this was an average Armada then yeah, you would have an argument but it isn't, especially look at their fts.

Originally posted by carver9
If this was an average Armada then yeah, you would have an argument but it isn't, especially look at their fts.

Look, defeating a fleet where the Galactus Engine is a small gun is an abstract feat. This shit is not.

Impressive? Yes.
Abstract? No.

Originally posted by carver9
If this was an average Armada then yeah, you would have an argument but it isn't, especially look at their fts.
But that's the thing, he didn't defeat anything.

The Avengers and their alien teammates were the ones that saved the day by hacking the World Killer ships and having them open fire on the Builders fleet causing the Builders and almost all of their armada to flee.

Starbrand destroyed like 8 or so stragglers. Hardly impressive at all.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...so you think Surfer at half power can take on Hulk, Thor, Hyperion, Ironman, etc...not only take them on but brush off their attacks. If your answer is yes, provide a scan proving your case.
Do you think any Avenger was remotely fighting even at average?

Originally posted by Warlord
talking about underestimating Quasar and Nova here
Lol

There is no reason to think Quasar can effect lantern energy, and standard Nova is going to be balled up by Atrocitus...

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Do you think any Avenger was remotely fighting even at average?

Do you have proof that they were holding back. Also, does this look someone that was holding back?

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15449083/Avengers_v5_008-014.jpg.html

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Lol

There is no reason to think Quasar can effect lantern energy, and standard Nova is going to be balled up by Atrocitus...

lol if dr. light can (and monica rambeau if you consider jla/avengers canon) I don't see why quasar can't. and nova can certainly hold his own against sinestro. not saying he win but he isn't insignificant either

Originally posted by zopzop
But that's the thing, he didn't defeat anything.

The Avengers and their alien teammates were the ones that saved the day by hacking the World Killer ships and having them open fire on the Builders fleet causing the Builders and almost all of their armada to flee.

Starbrand destroyed like 8 or so stragglers. Hardly impressive at all.

certainly not abstract feat or anything.
but unimpressive? I didn't see gladiator, thor or hyperion doing something among those lines and certainly not with just an energy burst.

Originally posted by carver9
Do you have proof that they were holding back. Also, does this look someone that was holding back?

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15449083/Avengers_v5_008-014.jpg.html

This. Also Carver you forgot to point out that inside sol's hammer starbrand told tony that he didn't even try when taking on the avengers who were trying to subdue him. So pyms point of the avengers not trying hard can be rendered invalid due to the fact that starbrand wasn't trying himself. And Pym a starbrand is a Universal defensive mechanism meant to eradicate threats on a universal scale, but I'm pretty sure you know that which surprises me that you feel that surfer is above him. I like you Pym but for the first time ever we have a disagreement

Originally posted by carver9
Do you have proof that they were holding back. Also, does this look someone that was holding back?

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15449083/Avengers_v5_008-014.jpg.html
This is what makes you Pr.'s punching bagOriginally posted by Warlord
lol if dr. light can (and monica rambeau if you consider jla/avengers canon) I don't see why quasar can't. and nova can certainly hold his own against sinestro. not saying he win but he isn't insignificant either
Quasar has a very finite control of the energy spectrum. I mean unless marvel adds an emotional spectrum we won't get a true answer but I don't think he could. That said the rings can manipulate the same energy as Quasar.

Nova could hold his own for a short while unless he flees...

Before you label me a haters I really like Quasar, he is probably my favorite HH other than Creel.

Pym...

Prove they were holding back. You saying it doesn't make it true.

Do you really believe the Avengers were trying to kill him?

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Do you really believe the Avengers were trying to kill him?

Considering what Thor and Hulk had in mind after they stunned him... I don't think they were trying to avoid killing him

But anyway, an alternate view of what Starbrand just did:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Cosmic/Captain-Marvel-016-19.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Cosmic/Captain-Marvel-016-20.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Cosmic/Captain-Marvel-016-21.jpg

Reed Starbrand is more powerful than this Starbrand... or at least, more experienced.

The Villains wins.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Do you really believe the Avengers were trying to kill him?



Do you believe Starbrand was trying to kill them.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Considering what Thor and Hulk had in mind after they stunned him... I don't think they were trying to avoid killing him

But anyway, an alternate view of what Starbrand just did:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Cosmic/Captain-Marvel-016-19.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Cosmic/Captain-Marvel-016-20.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Cosmic/Captain-Marvel-016-21.jpg

Reed Starbrand is more powerful than this Starbrand... or at least, more experienced.

The Villains wins.

You were right the second time he is not more powerful but more experienced. There is no limit to the starbrands power. The starbrands power is only limited by the host.

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
Do you believe Starbrand was trying to kill them.
I believe Starbrand isn't in full control.

By placement he SHOULD be above HH but in feats he is barely Thor/Surfer class.

Originally posted by pym-ftw

Quasar has a very finite control of the energy spectrum. I mean unless marvel adds an emotional spectrum we won't get a true answer but I don't think he could.

what? com on... I know he had some low showings but in general he has complete (and by complete I eman complete) control over the EM energy spectrum while he was shown to affect other types of energy like Jack of Heart's zero energy or even Worlock's magic. As I said, the rings have been affected by energy manipulators that have nothing to do with the emotional spectrum before and in any case Quasar doesn't have to affect the rings energy to give the lanterns a hell of a fight.

Hal has beaten Arthur through will power when he was trying to control his energy too. Light can control ANYTHING light. Even magic based artifacts, so he's pretty uber that way.

I know. not saying Quasar wil de facto drain the ring or enything. I am just saying that affecting the energies of the ring is well within his powers.
What happens next is debatable. Also I don't think Quasar's only way to beat a lantern is to drain/manipulate his energy. I always viewed Hal and Wendel as peers more or less

Originally posted by pym-ftw
I believe Starbrand isn't in full control.

By placement he SHOULD be above HH but in feats he is barely Thor/Surfer class.

Please tell me you are playing.?

Originally posted by Warlord
I know. not saying Quasar wil de facto drain the ring or enything. I am just saying that affecting the energies of the ring is well within his powers.
What happens next is debatable. Also I don't think Quasar's only way to beat a lantern is to drain/manipulate his energy. I always viewed Hal and Wendel as peers more or less

Well, who do you think wins this fight? Did you read one of the last Alan Scott storyline where he went crazy?

yes. I'm not saying Wendel can beat the likes of Alan, or Agent Orange when he was first introduced or the likes of Cyborg Supes with rings.
I was just mentioning all this because Pym dismissed him as insignificant.
For me Quasar can even split or even slightly beat the top lanterns like Hal or Sinestro as he doesn't need focus for his constructs and his bands don't need recharging. Now characters like the ones I stated above are well beyond a normal lantern as they are either significantly pumed up (Agent Orange, Starheart) or their own traits make the addition of a power ring overkill (cyborg supes)

Originally posted by Warlord
what? com on... I know he had some low showings but in general he has complete (and by complete I eman complete) control over the EM energy spectrum while he was shown to affect other types of energy like Jack of Heart's zero energy or even Worlock's magic. As I said, the rings have been affected by energy manipulators that have nothing to do with the emotional spectrum before and in any case Quasar doesn't have to affect the rings energy to give the lanterns a hell of a fight.
Quasar is completely ****ed outside EM spectrum and he has said that on several times.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Quasar is completely ****ed outside EM spectrum and he has said that on several times.

only he has affected energies outside the EM spectrum before like the ones I stated. On pannel. Anyway as I said people within the EM spectrum have affected the rings but that's not the debate.
It is whether Quasar is useless here or not. Which he isn't. Or debate otherwise

Originally posted by pym-ftw
I believe Starbrand isn't in full control.

By placement he SHOULD be above HH but in feats he is barely Thor/Surfer class. wat

Starbrand annihilated an entire wing of the Builder's fleet on his own. Neither Thor, nor Surfer have done anything on that magnitude in the war against the Builders.

Even against the Annihilation Wave, Surfer didn't do anything like that..

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Quasar has a very finite control of the energy spectrum. I mean unless marvel adds an emotional spectrum we won't get a true answer but I don't think he could. That said the rings can manipulate the same energy as Quasar.

Nova could hold his own for a short while unless he flees...

Before you label me a haters I really like Quasar, he is probably my favorite HH other than Creel. Quasar has come up across several energies he cannot manipulate, magical energies, for instance. But for the most part, that's the exception, not the rule. Despite being limited to the "EM spectrum," the Quantum Bands have shown the ability to absorb/manipulate the following:
Her's cosmic energies
Adam Warlock's spirit (despite being quantum magic)
the Power Cosmic
Klaw's sonic energies
Jack of Hearts' zero energy
Kree lifeforce energies
Ego's cosmic energies
Gladiator's energies
the Novaforce
Ronan's Universal power
Beta Ray Bill's Asgardian lifeforce (again, despite being magic)
Major Victory's psychokinetic energies
a Watcher's energies
Terminus' energies
the Infinity Gauntlet's power (although karmic energies specifically from the Soul Gem were apparently beyond him)
the Presence's energies
and obviously Quantum energies

That's all off the top of my head. There's definitely more examples. Quasar's really limited to the EM spectrum "in name" only. Because all those energies above -- except for maybe Klaw's sonic energies and Presence's nuclear energies -- can hardly be thought to be contained within the traditional EM spectrum as we know it. For whatever reason, in comics, the EM spectrum encompasses a whole heck of a lot of energies.

Quasar definitely sh1ts on GLs in terms of energy absorption and manipulation. It's literally his schtick. And he should get the benefit of the doubt here with regards to GL energy. GL energies are part of the emotional electromagnetic spectrum, after all.

Originally posted by Warlord
only he has affected energies outside the EM spectrum before like the ones I stated. On pannel. Anyway as I said people within the EM spectrum have affected the rings but that's not the debate.
It is whether Quasar is useless here or not. Which he isn't. Or debate otherwise
That's an exception not the rule. GL energies are outside EM spectrum and adapt energy manipulators like Dr. Light (who has manipulated all type of energies including magic) has failed to manipulate it after the retcon.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
In feats yes,...do you not think surfer could replicate the feats?

Thor the Hulk,and Hyperion would beat the snot out of Norrin faster that he could blink. The Starbrand is far above Norrin.

Originally posted by Warlord
one shoting Thor Hyperion and Hulk without knowing how to use the damn thing is certainly above herald though

No kidding. I would place Starbrand high enough to give The Dark Phoenix a run for her money if not stalemate her, and she was eating stars. The Starbrand is still filled with doubt, and is just now testing the waters of his power.

We know Starbrand is above high herald, but how much? Is he on the same level as Alan Scott?

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's an exception not the rule. GL energies are outside EM spectrum and adapt energy manipulators like Dr. Light (who has manipulated all type of energies including magic) has failed to manipulate it after the retcon.

refer to ODG's post for the exception thing.
After all I already said I am not backing Quasar against a GL just because of him draining the ring. Again, I replied only to specified he's far from useless in this fight

Originally posted by carver9
Starbrand just took out a fleet with a wave of his hands and this fleet took on and defeated Earth major defense, the Skrulls empire, Shiar Empire, along with more powerful forces. That alone is skyfather plus, probably abstract. The moral of this post is, don't listen to Zop Zop.
That fleet was already decimated, with their most powerful ships being turned on them. On top of that, The Builders had left long before StarBrand got there and, iirc, an Ex Nihila had destroyed itself to facilitate the retreat (causing further damage to the crippled and broken vessels).

SB's feat was impressive, but it was basically destroying a tonne of already destroyed ships. With all the remaining heroes in the blast zone, surviving unharmed.

Surfer definitely could have replicated that feat, imo.

Sadly Surfer's being nerfed throughout this saga. Bleeding, taking ages to heal a cut and not even being able to attack an armada of Alephs.

Originally posted by Warlord
refer to ODG's post for the exception thing.
After all I already said I am not backing Quasar against a GL just because of him draining the ring. Again, I replied only to specified he's far from useless in this fight

Either way, who do you got and why?

I know nothing of Black hand, but this alan and cyborg supes are very tough nuts to crack. it will go down to how powerful Starbrand really is but I see the lanterns edging it unless some bizzare stuff are involved (quantum zone jumps, warmholes, ring transmutation by surfer, energy draining via Bill's hammer)

Originally posted by janus77
That fleet was already decimated, with their most powerful ships being turned on them. On top of that, The Builders had left long before StarBrand got there and, iirc, an Ex Nihila had destroyed itself to facilitate the retreat (causing further damage to the crippled and broken vessels).

SB's feat was impressive, but it was basically destroying a tonne of already destroyed ships. With all the remaining heroes in the blast zone, surviving unharmed.

Surfer definitely could have replicated that feat, imo. Surfer isn't annihilating an entire fleet with the casual raising of a hand like Starbrand did. A neophyte Starbrand has already proven himself well beyond Surfer and Thor already in his first appearance against the Avengers. Originally posted by janus77
Sadly Surfer's being nerfed throughout this saga. Bleeding, taking ages to heal a cut and not even being able to attack an armada of Alephs. He's away from Earth. But even were he not weakened by being so far away from it, he's still not replicating what Starbrand did.

Originally posted by ODG
Surfer isn't annihilating an entire fleet with the casual raising of a hand like Starbrand did. A neophyte Starbrand has already proven himself well beyond Surfer and Thor already in his first appearance against the Avengers. He's away from Earth. But even were he not weakened by being so far away from it, he's still not replicating what Starbrand did.
Why not? He destroyed a planet with a simple gesture and the most powerful ships in The Builders' fleets where "Planet Killers".

Moreover, that feat wasn't exactly a case of overcoming the defensive shields and such of the armada, but merely destroying debris (the Planet Killer that the Skrull was operating had already destroyed the bulk of the fleet before The Builders left)...

I don't think it would be out of place for Surfer to do something like that with similar ease. If he wasn't weakened and if he wasn't arbitrarily lumbered with a very weak physical body.

Remember how he shielded all of Sakaar's ships, with a mere thought, when Galactus ate Sakaar?

Originally posted by janus77
That fleet was already decimated, with their most powerful ships being turned on them. On top of that, The Builders had left long before StarBrand got there and, iirc, an Ex Nihila had destroyed itself to facilitate the retreat (causing further damage to the crippled and broken vessels).
I even mentioned this to Carver too.


Easily. As could Thor or any other Herald level being worthy of the name.


Yup. Hickman is just sh|tting all over established characters (Starbrand, Living Tribunal, Surfer, etcc) for the sake of his overrated story.

Originally posted by zopzop

I even mentioned this to Carver too.


Easily. As could Thor or any other Herald level being worthy of the name.


Yup. Hickman is just sh|tting all over established characters (Starbrand, Living Tribunal, Surfer, etcc) for the sake of his overrated story.

So Surfer can take on the Avengers like Starbrand did?

Originally posted by carver9
So Surfer can take on the Avengers like Starbrand did?
You mean act like a punching bag while occasionally blasting? Yeah.

Originally posted by zopzop




Yup. Hickman is just sh|tting all over established characters (Starbrand, Living Tribunal, Surfer, etcc) for the sake of his overrated story.

To be fair, Surfer is SUPPOSED to be weakened the further away he is from earth now right? But who knows if Hickman even has that detail in his thouht process.

Originally posted by Warlord
refer to ODG's post for the exception thing.
After all I already said I am not backing Quasar against a GL just because of him draining the ring. Again, I replied only to specified he's far from useless in this fight
Most of those fall into EM spectrum as specified when quasar manipulated them.

Good.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Most of those fall into EM spectrum as specified when quasar manipulated them.


Especially any of those that took place in his series because Quasar's entire series had only one writer : Gruenwald. He stated repeatedly that the Q-bands, on their own, have no control over anything outside the EM Spectrum.

So if he manipulated energy in his series it was understood to be within the EM Spectrum.

I'm astounded of what the EM spectrum in the Marvel universe consists of then cause some the above examples certainly are not part of the EM spectrum in real life. anyway, moving on...

Originally posted by Warlord
I'm astounded of what the EM spectrum in the Marvel universe consists of then cause some the above examples certainly are not part of the EM spectrum in real life. anyway, moving on...

So true