Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

There is a coiled 1 mile long adamantium tow rope. One end is tied to the Juggernaut at the other end is attached to Mjolnir.
Which enchantment is stronger Cytorakk's "unstoppable"or Odin's "worthy"?

Can enchantment has been stopped before whereas Mjlonir hasn't.

The Adamantium line snaps.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
The Adamantium line snaps.

facepalm

Originally posted by Digi
facepalm Of the three I'd technically call this the weaklink though if Juggs has full Cytorak backing.

That's not the point. Obviously the point of the OP was to make it unbreakable. We can be pedantic, or we can actually discuss the intent of the thread's premise.

Originally posted by Digi
That's not the point. Obviously the point of the OP was to make it unbreakable. We can be pedantic, or we can actually discuss the intent of the thread's premise. Fine then it comes down to the Crimson King's backing. Mjolnir is consistent Jugg enchant is not. Fully backing I'd go with Juggs. I'd put the Odin as the lower of the two in terms of raw power, furthermore the Juggernaut actually gains the body and raw power of Cyt and I just don't think Mjolnir has that much oomph in it.

I should've tried a triple enchantment thread and replaced the tow rope with Wonder Woman's lasso.

Universe explodes.

Originally posted by Digi
That's not the point. Obviously the point of the OP was to make it unbreakable. We can be pedantic, or we can actually discuss the intent of the thread's premise.
I wasn't wrong.



Really Mjoinir would probably crack before lifted.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
I wasn't wrong.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Fine then it comes down to the Crimson King's backing. Mjolnir is consistent Jugg enchant is not. Fully backing I'd go with Juggs. I'd put the Odin as the lower of the two in terms of raw power, furthermore the Juggernaut actually gains the body and raw power of Cyt and I just don't think Mjolnir has that much oomph in it.

What does full backing mean? That Cytorrak channels all of his power into Juggernaut? What is the precedent for that? Why not just make a Cytorrak vs. Mjolnir thread instead?

Simply put, Classic Juggernaut's unstoppable enchantment while powerful is not as powerful as Mjolnir's worthiness enchantment.

Also, I have no idea why you think Odin is less powerful then Cytorrak? That's just weird.

Where does it say that Juggernaut gets the body and raw power of Cytorrak? I have never come across the ideas you've expressed in this post before. I'm assuming there are some comics I've missed?

Originally posted by carver9
Can enchantment has been stopped before whereas Mjlonir hasn't.

Completely false; Mjolnir's enchantment has been overcome...

Cains enchantment wins btw...

Elder God Enchantment>>>>>Skyfather Enchantment.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Completely false; Mjolnir's enchantment has been overcome...


When?

Originally posted by carver9
When?

Wow...I know you dont really read comics, but come on man...really!?

Is...that Zeus?

Another Skyfather?

Cain tried desperately in the past to lift Mjolnir, and he failed. He will fail this as well.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Cains enchantment wins btw...

Elder God Enchantment>>>>>Skyfather Enchantment.

Lol, what is your basis for this?

The closest comparison we have (The Serpent) implies that Odin is far more powerful then Cytorrak.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Wow...I know you dont really read comics, but come on man...really!?

Zeus didn't overcome Mjolnir's worthiness enchantment, but the return enchantment.

Not that it matters, Zeus would stop Juggernaut in his tracks as well.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Is...that Zeus?

Another Skyfather?

Yes...another Skyfather.

Cains enchantment comes from Cytorrak...an Elder God...a being thats beyond Skyfather.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Yes...another Skyfather.

Cains enchantment comes from Cytorrak...an Elder God...a being thats beyond Skyfather.

This is like saying that since Hogun is a God and Superman is only a mortal, Hogun is beyond Superman.

Being an Elder God (Also, where has Cytorrak been called an Elder God?) implies great power yes, but that's not enough when dealing with Odin who has concrete feats and history.

Fyi, Thor has fared better against Atum then any other Elder God has.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Wow...I know you dont really read comics, but come on man...really!?

WTF...I do read comics, crazy. Also, which one is worse, the scan you posted or this...

http://s30.photobucket.com/user/Hulk3389/media/hulk457-stopsjuggernaut.jpg.html

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Yes...another Skyfather.

Cains enchantment comes from Cytorrak...an Elder God...a being thats beyond Skyfather.

But we have Hulk stopping him dead in his tracks, TWICE.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This is like saying that since Hogun is a God and Superman is only a mortal, Hogun is beyond Superman.

Being an Elder God (Also, where has Cytorrak been called an Elder God?) implies great power yes, but that's not enough when dealing with Odin who has concrete feats and history.

Fyi, Thor has fared better against Atum then any other Elder God has.

Thor is a mainstream character; other characters job to mainstream characters as the story demands...

Thor also outperformed the 2000ft Destroyer against the 4th Celestial Host, so Thor performing well against Atum (relative to the other Elder Gods) doesnt carry that much weight...

Originally posted by carver9
But we have Hulk stopping him dead in his tracks, TWICE.

Hulk is a mainstream character...

Juggs jobbed to Hulk unless you want to believe that Hulk can just match Thors God Blast on demand...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Thor is a mainstream character; other characters job to mainstream characters as the story demands...

Thor also outperformed the 2000ft Destroyer against the 4th Celestial Host, so Thor performing well against Atum (relative to the other Elder Gods) doesnt carry that much weight...

Thor directly disproving the notion that being an Elder God doesn't automatically means superiority means little? Okay, whatever.

As long as you've dropped the notion that Cytorrak is more powerful just because Odin is a Skyfather. Which is silly especially in a post Chaos War world.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Thor is a mainstream character; other characters job to mainstream characters as the story demands...

Thor also outperformed the 2000ft Destroyer against the 4th Celestial Host, so Thor performing well against Atum (relative to the other Elder Gods) doesnt carry that much weight...

I am glad you didnt dispute this factual information...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I am glad you didnt dispute this factual information...



What factual information? Your response to my point was that it doesn't count because Thor's a main character.

That's not even worth discussing as a serious point of contention. Especially since compared to Cytorrak, Odin would count as a main character as well which means that the rule that Elder Gods > Skyfather wouldn't apply to him either.

Now, do you have any evidence that supports Cytorrak being greater then Odin? Do you have any feats for Cytorrak that match what Odin has accomplished? Or does it not count because Odin's a main character?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Hulk is a mainstream character...

Juggs jobbed to Hulk unless you want to believe that Hulk can just match Thors God Blast on demand...

What kind of argument is this? Hulk stopped him, that's all that matters. My scan is no different than your Zeus scan.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What does full backing mean? That Cytorrak channels all of his power into Juggernaut? What is the precedent for that? Why not just make a Cytorrak vs. Mjolnir thread instead?

Simply put, Classic Juggernaut's unstoppable enchantment while powerful is not as powerful as Mjolnir's worthiness enchantment.

Also, I have no idea why you think Odin is less powerful then Cytorrak? That's just weird.

Where does it say that Juggernaut gets the body and raw power of Cytorrak? I have never come across the ideas you've expressed in this post before. I'm assuming there are some comics I've missed? Considering every time someone calls on the crimson bands they're directly calling on cytorrak's power I'd say he definitely has the feats. Have to dig for it but it was Dr. Strange that explained it such as when he calls on the power of the Vishanti he calls on Cytorrak to cast the spell. That said the spell has held up to Zom at his best when he was running up against eternity and Dormammu. So... yeah. Also Fear Itself run made it pretty clear that the Juggernaut enchant is directly linked to the desire of the user to fulfill their desires. Also the only time I'd say the Crimson Kings power was directly called into contest was when Illyana broke the enchant on her Colossus but the caveat to that was that it was in her hell dimension where she had absolute authority.

Cytorrak is not an Elder god.

War Hulk stopped Juggernaut in his tracks, War Hulk would not lift Mjolnir.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Hulk is a mainstream character...

Juggs jobbed to Hulk unless you want to believe that Hulk can just match Thors God Blast on demand...


You play DCUO? The stats that you boast are impossible to have btw. You're Dom is way too high for a hard light user. Also you can't just dismiss a feat simply because you don't like it. The Hulk is just that damned powerful. Cain wasn't able to budge Mjolnir in the past when he tried with all of his might, and he won't be able to do it here. It's simple Mjolnir wins this.

i was actually thinking of making something like this as i'm also curious which enchantment is stronger. if its full backing from their respective source, i'd give it to Cytorakk on the ground that he's an elder god.

Originally posted by ODG
Cytorrak is not an Elder god.



Really? huh, well that changed my opinion lol. I always thought he was Elder god tier.

Again I reiterate a Spell POWERED by Cyt was strong enough to restrain Zom... The Crimson bands are to him what Vishanti invoked spells are to the Vishanti...

Originally posted by Uriel005
Again I reiterate a Spell POWERED by Cyt was strong enough to restrain Zom... The Crimson bands are to him what Vishanti invoked spells are to the Vishanti...


Didn't the Sentry pretty much walk right through those same crimson bands and pwn Doom while he held the other Avengers captive within those bands as well? Just because Cain is powered by this same power, does not mean that he has the ability to operate at those levels. He never has therefore he loses this. He was never able to even budge the hammer with all of his might, and he will not be able to do it here either. This is based on his past failed attempt. Mjolnir wins. I mean it's the only logical conclusion friend.

Originally posted by Stoic
You play DCUO? The stats that you boast are impossible to have btw. You're Dom is way too high for a hard light user. His stats aren't impossible, look at his vit. He's basically crowd control, while his vit is like tier 4.5.

But anyway, Cyttorak could be abstract level. That has no bearing on the enchantment we've seen overpowered on panel. The enchantment isn't all of his power or even close. Just like the Mjolnir enchantment isn't all of Odin's power or even close.

And Mjolnir's enchantment is def stronger than Cain's.

Cyttorak is one of the mystic principalities, not an elder god, and being an elder god doesn't really mean anything considering several of them aren't really powerful, full of low showings, and don't really have the feats.

Cyttorak isn't much better, he (or rather his aspect) got one shotted into a thousand pieces by juggernaut (when he was helped into using ruby's power) in x men unlimited #12.

Juggs man

Originally posted by Stoic
You play DCUO? The stats that you boast are impossible to have btw. You're Dom is way too high for a hard light user

Those stats are very real; I have a hybrid build that emphasis's Precision and Dominance with only a small amount of Vit...

Every single piece of gear I have is modded with Precision plus either Dom or Vit; only 4 items are Precision/Vit with the other 6 items modded by Precision/Dom...

My rings (both of which are item level 86) are DPS rings (with the Precision affinity) modded with Precision/Dom expert Mods...

So I say again, those stats are very real...

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
His stats aren't impossible, look at his vit. He's basically crowd control, while his vit is like tier 4.5.



My character is fully designed to be a secondary troll that excells at crowd control...

She pumps out ridiculous amounts of precision based (power free) damage (and I often make use of my infinite combos so I dont burn through power by clipping as 99.99999% of HL trolls do; I also fully specialize in the Support Tree which excells at this...I dont have a single point into Assault...not even Light Claws)...

And she boasts very strong shields; at present both Light Barrier and Group Shielding negate 2590 points of damage...

Maybe Juggernaut could drag or pull the Mjolnir, via rope, since it is not lift ?

Originally posted by carver9
But we have Hulk stopping him dead in his tracks, TWICE.

Celestial Might>>>>>Juggs
not Hulk>>>>>Juggs
Hulk never stopped Juggs other than the War incident.

Originally posted by ODG
Cytorrak is not an Elder god.

War Hulk stopped Juggernaut in his tracks, War Hulk would not lift Mjolnir. War Hulk took a mighty long time to amp to those levels to stop Juggs. War Hulk didn't spend the same time amping to lift Mjolnir.

Originally posted by carver9
But we have Hulk stopping him dead in his tracks, TWICE.

Negative

Originally posted by Stoic
You play DCUO? The stats that you boast are impossible to have btw. You're Dom is way too high for a hard light user. Also you can't just dismiss a feat simply because you don't like it. The Hulk is just that damned powerful. Cain wasn't able to budge Mjolnir in the past when he tried with all of his might, and he won't be able to do it here. It's simple Mjolnir wins this. I have seen a few trolls go the dom/damage route his stats are possible my trolls cr is 99 but he is a pure troll with balanced vit/dom 1858/1000+