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Who wins?

Starbrand in a severe stomp.

Originally posted by Stoic
Starbrand in a severe stomp.

Stoic as true as that is zopzop will probably say that surfer stomps.

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
Stoic as true as that is zopzop will probably say that surfer stomps.

Well everyone has times when they are wrong. In this case I'm not.

Starbrand is not high herald I take it..

What level would he be? Skyfather?

Originally posted by Stoic
Well everyone has times when they are wrong. In this case I'm not.

Indeed and starbrand does stomp.

Originally posted by Supermex
Starbrand is not high herald I take it..

What level would he be? Skyfather?

Possibly, no one really knows right now for the starbrand has limitless potential that can only be hindered by its host. I am looking forward to seeing more of him.

I love Surfer but this fight isn't even fair. Surfer dies, BADLY.

Yea, Starbrand stomps hard.

Originally posted by Supermex
Starbrand is not high herald I take it..

What level would he be? Skyfather?

I can't quite categorize the Brand at this time, but I will say this; there are certain characteristics that a character needs before they can be considered a Sky Father even though they possess the power output of one, and that is versatility. Odin, and Zeus can do several things that Thanos for example can not do which is why the Titan should never be counted among this tier. I would place a Brand user at this point at High Trans, due to the idea that he can not create life, imbue objects with great power, stop time, impart portions of his own life force to make powerful Herald tier beings... yadda yadda. In my opinion in order to sport the Sky Father title, a character need to possess all of those things, and still have the ability to take out a team of Trans level beings or at least give such a team a very hard time in terms of figuring out how to take them down.

The Starbrand should be able to take on a team of herald level characters with moderate difficulty. He was able to take hits from Thor, the Hulk, and Hyperion, and it was clear that they could have included the Silver Surfer among them, with Blue Marvel, and still have a hard time taking him down.

Thor the Hulk, and Hyperion would destroy the Silver Surfer if you consider the idea that Thor alone got the better of Norrin in their most recent encounter. Thor hit the Starbrand, and he said that he barely even felt it. What would you call him?

Originally posted by Stoic
I can't quite categorize the Brand at this time, but I will say this; there are certain characteristics that a character needs before they can be considered a Sky Father even though they possess the power output of one, and that is versatility. Odin, and Zeus can do several things that Thanos for example can not do which is why the Titan should never be counted among this tier. I would place a Brand user at this point at High Trans, due to the idea that he can not create life, imbue objects with great power, stop time, impart portions of his own life force to make powerful Herald tier beings... yadda yadda. In my opinion in order to sport the Sky Father title, a character need to possess all of those things, and still have the ability to take out a team of Trans level beings or at least give such a team a very hard time in terms of figuring out how to take them down.

The Starbrand should be able to take on a team of herald level characters with moderate difficulty. He was able to take hits from Thor, the Hulk, and Hyperion, and it was clear that they could have included the Silver Surfer among them, with Blue Marvel, and still have a hard time taking him down.

Thor the Hulk, and Hyperion would destroy the Silver Surfer if you consider the idea that Thor alone got the better of Norrin in their most recent encounter. Thor hit the Starbrand, and he said that he barely even felt it. What would you call him?
Stoic....no.

You realize that the Starbrand's claim to fame is it's "planet busting" status right? Despite the fact that it hasn't done anything REMOTELY that impressive on panel feat wise.

Taking hits from Hulk/Hyperion/Thor is nice and all but you should remember they weren't going all out vs a freaking COLLEGE STUDENT.

The Surfer has busted planets (individually and shared), displayed planetary level TP, planetary level matter manipulation, time traveled under his own power (both forwards and backwards and he's used it offensively in battle when he BFRed an opponent into the distant future), created black holes, raised the dead, etc...

Show me ANYTHING current Starbrand has done that even approaches that and then we'll talk (remember Ellis/Hickman retconned everything relating to the Starbrand, so current Starbrand is the ONLY thing you can go by).

A PISless/CISless Surfer would push current Starbrand's shit in. Enjoy that black hole in your chest cavity Starbrand.

Originally posted by zopzop
Stoic....no.

You realize that the Starbrand's claim to fame is it's "planet busting" status right? Despite the fact that it hasn't done anything REMOTELY that impressive on panel feat wise.

Taking hits from Hulk/Hyperion/Thor is nice and all but you should remember they weren't going all out vs a freaking COLLEGE STUDENT.

The Surfer has busted planets (individually and shared), displayed planetary level TP, planetary level matter manipulation, time traveled under his own power (both forwards and backwards and he's used it offensively in battle when he BFRed an opponent into the distant future), created black holes, raised the dead, etc...

Show me ANYTHING current Starbrand has done that even approaches that and then we'll talk (remember Ellis/Hickman retconned everything relating to the Starbrand, so current Starbrand is the ONLY thing you can go by).

A PISless/CISless Surfer would push current Starbrand's shit in. Enjoy that black hole in your chest cavity Starbrand.


Say what you will Zop, but in no way would Norrin ever toy with Thor alone, now add Hyperion to the mix, and throw in the Hulk for good measure, and he gets the toilet swirlies. The Surfer never raised the dead either. That deer that he healed wasn't dead yet. Close but it wasn't dead. The other things that you mentioned have nothing to do with the fact that a Brand user would beat norrin to death with his own arm.

Originally posted by Stoic
Say what you will Zop, but in no way would Norrin ever toy with Thor alone, now add Hyperion to the mix, and throw in the Hulk for good measure, and he gets the toilet swirlies.
If they were phucking around and underestimating Surfer, they'd get even worse treatment.

What did Starbrand do vs that trio that was so spectacular, keeping in mind they weren't going all out vs an innocent college student that just got his power? BFRing the Hulk? How is that beyond Surfer's power? Causing Hyperion pain? How is that beyond Surfer's power? Dismissing Mjolnir? How is that beyond Surfer's power (seeing as he's already done it before, see Chaos War).

Has Starbrand even WON a fight yet?

Now show me anything he's done on panel that can compare to those examples I gave you involving Surfer's feats.

Originally posted by zopzop
Stoic....no.

You realize that the Starbrand's claim to fame is it's "planet busting" status right? Despite the fact that it hasn't done anything REMOTELY that impressive on panel feat wise.

Taking hits from Hulk/Hyperion/Thor is nice and all but you should remember they weren't going all out vs a freaking COLLEGE STUDENT.

The Surfer has busted planets (individually and shared), displayed planetary level TP, planetary level matter manipulation, time traveled under his own power (both forwards and backwards and he's used it offensively in battle when he BFRed an opponent into the distant future), created black holes, raised the dead, etc...

Show me ANYTHING current Starbrand has done that even approaches that and then we'll talk (remember Ellis/Hickman retconned everything relating to the Starbrand, so current Starbrand is the ONLY thing you can go by).

A PISless/CISless Surfer would push current Starbrand's shit in. Enjoy that black hole in your chest cavity Starbrand.

Surfer cant take on Thor, Hulk, Hyperion, and Ms. Marvel at the same, even if they were holding back (and where did you get that from...they were holding back)?

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer cant take on Thor, Hulk, Hyperion, and Ms. Marvel at the same, even if they were holding back (and where did you get that from...they were holding back)?
They weren't fighting a super villain Carver. They were fighting an innocent college student that just got his power. I think they even mentioned that on panel but I don't care enough to look it up.

Originally posted by zopzop
If they were phucking around and underestimating Surfer, they'd get even worse treatment.

What did Starbrand do vs that trio that was so spectacular, keeping in mind they weren't going all out vs an innocent college student that just got his power? BFRing the Hulk? How is that beyond Surfer's power? Causing Hyperion pain? How is that beyond Surfer's power? Dismissing Mjolnir? How is that beyond Surfer's power (seeing as he's already done it before, see Chaos War).

Has Starbrand even WON a fight yet?

Now show me anything he's done on panel that can compare to those examples I gave you involving Surfer's feats.

So far the score for Infinity has the brand operating at a higher level than Noriin by quite a large margin. Norrin couldn't even stop those (I forgot their names at the moment) bots from destroying a planet. The Brand was never categorized as a world killer, but more to the tune of a world protector. It takes a lot more to protect something than it does to destroy it in many cases. Thor's Mjolnir shots have hurt Norrin in the past, whereas the Brand treated like a child's tap, and that was before he ever realized what kind of power he had. he also casually lifted his hand and blew up ships capable of destroying a planet. Again what has Norrin done aside from saving one Skrull child from his worlds destruction. This can go on for an entire night, and I just don't have the stuff of legends that you do Zop . So hows about this, I will gladly come back and apologize to you for being wrong about the Brand if Norrin proves to be a larger asset in the upcoming Infinity books, or I will gladly remind you that a Brand user is a High Trans level character when he outshines Norrin. Hows about that? You know I'm right. So you'd better get ready to eat crow... Bro.

Originally posted by zopzop
They weren't fighting a super villain Carver. They were fighting an innocent college student that just got his power. I think they even mentioned that on panel but I don't care enough to look it up.

Yet we have Hulk dive bombing him from Space and Ironman telling Thor to end it with a hammer shot. Yeah, that sounds like someone is holding back to me.

Originally posted by Stoic
So far the score for Infinity has the brand operating at a higher level than Noriin by quite a large margin. Norrin couldn't even stop those (I forgot their names at the moment) bots from destroying a planet. The Brand was never categorized as a world killer, but more to the tune of a world protector. It takes a lot more to protect something than it does to destroy it in many cases. Thor's Mjolnir shots have hurt Norrin in the past, whereas the Brand treated like a child's tap, and that was before he ever realized what kind of power he had. he also casually lifted his hand and blew up ships capable of destroying a planet. Again what has Norrin done aside from saving one Skrull child from his worlds destruction. This can go on for an entire night, and I just don't have the stuff of legends that you do Zop . So hows about this, I will gladly come back and apologize to you for being wrong about the Brand if Norrin proves to be a larger asset in the upcoming Infinity books, or I will gladly remind you that a Brand user is a High Trans level character when he outshines Norrin. Hows about that? You know I'm right. So you'd better get ready to eat crow... Bro.

A) The Starbrand did jack vs that Builder fleet my friend. It was the Avengers and their allies that saved the day by hacking and then decimating the Builders fleet. The Starbrand destroyed the already wounded stragglers.

B) Surfer's showing during Infinity means jack because he has a HISTORY of spectacular feats that are beyond anything Starbrand has done. And unlike the Starbrand, this hasn't been retconned. So Hickman phucking over Surfer during Infinity is meaningless.

Oh and I forgot to add something to the list of things the mere "high herald" Surfer has done with his power, additions and corrections in RED :


Hickman's Starbrand is outclassed by Surfer.
Originally posted by carver9
Yet we have Hulk dive bombing him from Space and Ironman telling Thor to end it with a hammer shot. Yeah, that sounds like someone is holding back to me.
They were though, so....

Zop there will be a direct comparison of whom will be the largest asset in the story at large, and once we get the score it won't matter about what Norrin did in the past. Currently, he would simply be out-shined by a larger power than his own. The brand is simply being written up to be above the Surfer and his peer group of High Herald level beings. no matter how you may attempt to flatten the feat, the idea of him simply raising his hand, and blowing up that much matter is above anything that i have seen Norrin do to space War Ships of that caliber. I have his entire run that was sketched by Ron Lim back in the day, and I can't see a guy like Khoon nearly killing a Brand user. However i see a Brand user casually ripping him apart. Like I said before though, let's see how Marvel scales the Brand in this series, and that will count as canon to all of the characters taking part in it in terms of power levels. After all the brand just got his powers, and he hasn't even gone for broke with them yet. So far as I said the Surfer was far less impressive in this arc than the Brand. Let's just wait and see.

Me and Carver are going to waiting to show you the error of your ways.

Originally posted by Stoic
Zop there will be a direct comparison of whom will be the largest asset in the story at large, and once we get the score it won't matter about what Norrin did in the past. Currently, he would simply be out-shined by a larger power than his own. The brand is simply being written up to be above the Surfer and his peer group of High Herald level beings. no matter how you may attempt to flatten the feat, the idea of him simply raising his hand, and blowing up that much matter is above anything that i have seen Norrin do to space War Ships of that caliber. I have his entire run that was sketched by Ron Lim back in the day, and I can't see a guy like Khoon nearly killing a Brand user. However i see a Brand user casually ripping him apart. Like I said before though, let's see how Marvel scales the Brand in this series, and that will count as canon to all of the characters taking part in it in terms of power levels. After all the brand just got his powers, and he hasn't even gone for broke with them yet. So far as I said the Surfer was far less impressive in this arc than the Brand. Let's just wait and see.
It matters what he did in the past because we see how Hickman is writing his "story". He's already had the LT humiliated by these guys. The phucking LT humiliated by people that go around busting planets with spaceships (that had to run when the Avengers turned their ships against them!). So you can see why him screwing the Surfer over is meaningless.

And like I said, nothing the Surfer has done in the past has been retconned by Hickman (unlike the Starbrand) so despite this pitiful showing by an @$$hole writer, Surfer still outclasses ANYTHING the Starbrand has done on panel.

@Zop...

Provide scans proving they were holding back against the Brand. Im asking for simple proof to back your statement.

Originally posted by zopzop
Stoic....no.

You realize that the Starbrand's claim to fame is it's "planet busting" status right? Despite the fact that it hasn't done anything REMOTELY that impressive on panel feat wise.

Taking hits from Hulk/Hyperion/Thor is nice and all but you should remember they weren't going all out vs a freaking COLLEGE STUDENT.

The Surfer has busted planets (individually and shared), displayed planetary level TP, planetary level matter manipulation, time traveled under his own power (both forwards and backwards and he's used it offensively in battle when he BFRed an opponent into the distant future), created black holes, raised the dead, etc...

Show me ANYTHING current Starbrand has done that even approaches that and then we'll talk (remember Ellis/Hickman retconned everything relating to the Starbrand, so current Starbrand is the ONLY thing you can go by).

A PISless/CISless Surfer would push current Starbrand's shit in. Enjoy that black hole in your chest cavity Starbrand.

Wow Stoic what did I tell you. Zopzop you have officially lost all credibility by flaunting your apparent bias towards surfer. And you are saying that the starbrand has done nothing impressive on panel yet? Umm he is relatively new so of coarse not, and he is a tool needed in a large event when a threat faces the protagonist that it too much for them. In essence the star brands sole purpose to be a protector on a universal scale so the character was solely created to be above all heralds. According to you it seems as if surfer is a trans being. And when I told stoic you would probably say surfer stomps I was kidding because I did not think someone would be that foolish enough to say something like that.

Surfer wins by feats,... Unless you lowball him.

Starbrand has looked better than Capt. Marvel, so he is being hyped up on here.

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
Wow Stoic what did I tell you. Zopzop you have officially lost all credibility by flaunting your apparent bias towards surfer. And you are saying that the starbrand has done nothing impressive on panel yet? Umm he is relatively new so of coarse not, and he is a tool needed in a large event when a threat faces the protagonist that it too much for them. In essence the star brands sole purpose to be a protector on a universal scale so the character was solely created to be above all heralds. According to you it seems as if surfer is a trans being. And when I told stoic you would probably say surfer stomps I was kidding because I did not think someone would be that foolish enough to say something like that.
On panel proof of what you stated or GTFOoH. On panel, according to statements only so far, Ellis/Hickman's Starbrand is a PLANETARY level power at BEST.

I'm sorry I find it very hard to believe that a character who was handling an entire avengers squad including 3 of the most powerful heralds in marvel, who were trying their best to neutralize him when he wasn't even trying to be beneath surfer. Surfer couldn't even do that in his dreams. One of those heralds alone can give him a solid match. It's one thing to have greater feats than a character which the surfer has over star brand, but its another thing for a new character to be solely created for the purpose of being above everyone else for a specific reason. But I am done talking about this only time will tell how this story unravels.

Did you read that comic?

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
I'm sorry I find it very hard to believe that a character who was handling an entire avengers squad including 3 of the most powerful heralds in marvel, who were trying their best to neutralize him when he wasn't even trying to be beneath surfer. Surfer couldn't even do that in his dreams. One of those heralds alone can give him a solid match. It's one thing to have greater feats than a character which the surfer has over star brand, but its another thing for a new character to be solely created for the purpose of being above everyone else for a specific reason. But I am done talking about this only time will tell how this story unravels.
He wasn't handling the entire Avengers squad on his own. He had help from Nightmask.

And the trio were holding back because they knew he was young and not really evil, just confused.

Originally posted by Stoic
Thor alone got the better of Norrin in their most recent encounter. In previous encounters that's true, especially the B&T arc. But in "Galactus Seed"? That was a tie, imo, a rather unimaginative blow-for-blow exchange. I've analyzed that fight, panel by panel, more times than I care to admit, hoping for something better. But nay.

Thor most certainly did not "get the better of Norrin" in their last encounter. The Surfer basically fought Thor to a draw using nothing but strength, EP and his board. He stopped Mjolnir mid-swing and took all of Thor's shots without missing a beat.

Originally posted by Dampyre
Thor most certainly did not "get the better of Norrin" in their last encounter. The Surfer basically fought Thor to a draw using nothing but strength, EP and his board. He stopped Mjolnir mid-swing and took all of Thor's shots without missing a beat.

What is your point here? My point was that it was more than just Thor going at the Brand user, and only Thor was needed or is needed to leave the Surfer with his hands more than filled. The brand was able to easily dispatch not only Thor, but the Hulk, and Hyperion. These three would put a beating on the Surfer in less time that it took me to write this. It's clear as day what the writers intended for the Starbrand to be in terms of raw power, and he is above the likes of a High Herald like the Silver Surfer. Even Zop who has decided to vote for the Surfer in this very thread has mentioned that the Brand is at least trans level in posts before this thread began. Which is a direct contradiction to what he is claiming now. The Surfer is a High herald, and from what I know, the Trans tier trumps High herald by a country mile.

Originally posted by Stoic
What is your point here? My point was that it was more than just Thor going at the Brand user, and only Thor was needed or is needed to leave the Surfer with his hands more than filled. The brand was able to easily dispatch not only Thor, but the Hulk, and Hyperion. These three would put a beating on the Surfer in less time that it took me to write this. It's clear as day what the writers intended for the Starbrand to be in terms of raw power, and he is above the likes of a High Herald like the Silver Surfer. Even Zop who has decided to vote for the Surfer in this very thread has mentioned that the Brand is at least trans level in posts before this thread began. Which is a direct contradiction to what he is claiming now. The Surfer is a High herald, and from what I know, the Trans tier trumps High herald by a country mile.
That was me being generous. So far it's done NOTHING to lay claim to the Trans Tier title.

Those three were going easy on the freaking COLLEGE KID. If that trio was playing around with Surfer like that, they'd get schooled just the same. And even then what did the Starbrand do? BRFed Hulk, BFD. Made Hyperion cry out in pain, BFD. Did NOTHING to Thor except singe his clothing, BFD.

Originally posted by Stoic
What is your point here? My point was that it was more than just Thor going at the Brand user, and only Thor was needed or is needed to leave the Surfer with his hands more than filled. The brand was able to easily dispatch not only Thor, but the Hulk, and Hyperion. These three would put a beating on the Surfer in less time that it took me to write this. It's clear as day what the writers intended for the Starbrand to be in terms of raw power, and he is above the likes of a High Herald like the Silver Surfer. Even Zop who has decided to vote for the Surfer in this very thread has mentioned that the Brand is at least trans level in posts before this thread began. Which is a direct contradiction to what he is claiming now. The Surfer is a High herald, and from what I know, the Trans tier trumps High herald by a country mile.

This is exactly what I have been saying. But stoic don't waste your breathe, according to zop Surfer is a sky father who can never lose and he will never be convinced otherwise.

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
This is exactly what I have been saying. But stoic don't waste your breathe, according to zop Surfer is a sky father who can never lose and he will never be convinced otherwise.
Where did I say Surfer is a skyfather you lunatic? Or that he never loses?

All I said is, he's not losing to this feeb. He has way more showings aka experience and his on panel fights and feats sh|t all over Ellis/Hickman's Starbrand.

Now instead of acting like a child, how about you post on panel evidence supporting your position. I gave you examples of crap Surfer has done.

Again, nothing was stated about the Avengers holding back against the Brand. The guy just killed numerous of humans during his retreaval of the Starbrand (by mistake), so I see no reason they would hold back.

Originally posted by Stoic
What is your point here? My point was that it was more than just Thor going at the Brand user, and only Thor was needed or is needed to leave the Surfer with his hands more than filled. The brand was able to easily dispatch not only Thor, but the Hulk, and Hyperion. These three would put a beating on the Surfer in less time that it took me to write this. It's clear as day what the writers intended for the Starbrand to be in terms of raw power, and he is above the likes of a High Herald like the Silver Surfer. Even Zop who has decided to vote for the Surfer in this very thread has mentioned that the Brand is at least trans level in posts before this thread began. Which is a direct contradiction to what he is claiming now. The Surfer is a High herald, and from what I know, the Trans tier trumps High herald by a country mile.

The point was that you lied and I decided to call you on it. I never said anything about who wins between the Surfer and the Starbrand. Also, the Surfer would certainly beat either Hyperion or the Hulk for a majority but not both together.

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
This is exactly what I have been saying. But stoic don't waste your breathe, according to zop Surfer is a sky father who can never lose and he will never be convinced otherwise.

The Surfer isn't skyfather level. He just has an unmatched array of high-level powers in his class.

Originally posted by zopzop
That was me being generous. So far it's done NOTHING to lay claim to the Trans Tier title.

Those three were going easy on the freaking COLLEGE KID. If that trio was playing around with Surfer like that, they'd get schooled just the same. And even then what did the Starbrand do? BRFed Hulk, BFD. Made Hyperion cry out in pain, BFD. Did NOTHING to Thor except singe his clothing, BFD.

When Carol Danver's threw the Hulk from space aimed towards the Brand this was not him or her playing around, he hit the Brand with a shit ton of damage, and it did nothing to him. Thor was not playing with him when he tossed Mjolnir at him either. The kid barely grunted at the impacts, and this was before he even knew what the Brand was, or how to properly use it. I told you before that you would need to wait and see what and how powerful the Brand has been retconned to. This was way back when you began saying that it's been heavily reduced. So far I don't see anything that points to it being that weak. What I see is an inexperienced, and doubtful wielder of it's immense power.

What would happen if the Brand defeats Thanos all on his own? Will he still be less than Norrin in your eyes? Like I said, let's wait and see. My post before this one was in reply to Dampyre. I'd nearly given up on this thread, because it is simply too early to give a solid answer on who would really dominate. However the Brand was able to hold off 3 characters that would wipe the floor with Norrin, and do it with ease. He's fallen to far less than Thor, Hulk, and Hyperion, with a splash of Captain Marvel.

Did you also take into account that the Brand was playing with them? They were far more serious about taking him down than he was about taking them down. Let's just see how it unfolds though.

Meh the Avengers said they knew the Starbrand user wasnt in control of the power at his disposal having said that they didnt go easy on him they wanted to put him down.

Originally posted by Dampyre
The point was that you lied and I decided to call you on it. I never said anything about who wins between the Surfer and the Starbrand. Also, the Surfer would certainly beat either Hyperion or the Hulk for a majority but not both together.

I lied about the Thor vs Surfer battle? In my eyes Thor got the better of the fight slightly, if I was judging the fight. You know why there are several judges for boxing matches? Because everyone has an opinion. So no I didn't lie, I gave my opinion. You think that they were dead even. Should I call you a liar based on your opinion of the fight?

Originally posted by Stoic
When Carol Danver's threw the Hulk from space aimed towards the Brand this was not him or her playing around, he hit the Brand with a shit ton of damage, and it did nothing to him. Thor was not playing with him when he tossed Mjolnir at him either. The kid barely grunted at the impacts, and this was before he even knew what the Brand was, or how to properly use it. I told you before that you would need to wait and see what and how powerful the Brand has been retconned to. This was way back when you began saying that it's been heavily reduced. So far I don't see anything that points to it being that weak. What I see is an inexperienced, and doubtful wielder of it's immense power.

What would happen if the Brand defeats Thanos all on his own? Will he still be less than Norrin in your eyes? Like I said, let's wait and see. My post before this one was in reply to Dampyre. I'd nearly given up on this thread, because it is simply too early to give a solid answer on who would really dominate. However the Brand was able to hold off 3 characters that would wipe the floor with Norrin, and do it with ease. He's fallen to far less than Thor, Hulk, and Hyperion, with a splash of Captain Marvel.

Did you also take into account that the Brand was playing with them? They were far more serious about taking him down than he was about taking them down. Let's just see how it unfolds though.

Thor and crew weren't going all out vs a kid that a) wasn't a villain and b) obviously confused as to what was going on. That's not even debatable.

And like I said, what did the Brand do that was so impressive? You think Surfer can't BFR Hulk, while causing Hyperion pain and singeing Thor's clothing? Because that's ALL Starbrand did.

Regarding the Starbrand's reaction to a Mjolnir strike, the Surfer took one from a pissed off Thor that thought he was attacking his homeland and Surfer was just fine (exactly like the Starbrand) :
http://s23.postimg.org/7bbs4h9tz/2415954_1837157_thor_versus_silver_surfer_mighty.jpg
And this was a Surfer that was trying to reason with Thor.

Regarding Thanos, I don't know if you've noticed but Hickman doesn't respect power levels or character history. Thanos is going to get jobbed out like a cheap whore (just like the LT was under Hickman's pen). And unless I'm mistaken, it's the Earth based heroes that are going to take him on, not Starbrand and crew. So there goes that.

Starbrand shit stomps.

I mean...really?

Originally posted by zopzop
Thor and crew weren't going all out vs a kid that a) wasn't a villain and b) obviously confused as to what was going on. That's not even debatable.

And like I said, what did the Brand do that was so impressive? You think Surfer can't BFR Hulk, while causing Hyperion pain and singeing Thor's clothing? Because that's ALL Starbrand did.

Regarding the Starbrand's reaction to a Mjolnir strike, the Surfer took one from a pissed off Thor that thought he was attacking his homeland and Surfer was just fine (exactly like the Starbrand) :
http://s23.postimg.org/7bbs4h9tz/2415954_1837157_thor_versus_silver_surfer_mighty.jpg
And this was a Surfer that was trying to reason with Thor.

Regarding Thanos, I don't know if you've noticed but Hickman doesn't respect power levels or character history. Thanos is going to get jobbed out like a cheap whore (just like the LT was under Hickman's pen). And unless I'm mistaken, it's the Earth based heroes that are going to take him on, not Starbrand and crew. So there goes that. It doesn't matter who writes it because we are going with characters as they are currently. i mean imagine if i went with the most powerful version of the Hulk? WB Hulk. He would tear the Surfers arms off, but that's not done because we go with what is currently happening in Marvel. If Hickman were doing such a bad job, why hasn't he been fired yet? Why would Marvel back him if he was getting it all wrong? Ok so LT had a poor showing. How many of those has the Spectre gotten? First of all we know one thing is certain, the Builders are greater than Heralds, or Norrin would have stopped those guys from destroying the Skrull kids planet. he was useless there. The only thing that he was able to save was his own hide, and the Skrulls. Currently speaking the Surfer has a lot of yardage to make up, because I am far more impressed by the Brand's performance so far in the story. Keep it current, or it really doesn't matter at this point. At least to a certain degree. And keep in mind that Norrin has been ass whipped by less than a power capable of defending an entire planet alone. Did you take into account just what type of forces it was meant to defend against? Galactus is a planets worst nightmare. So....

Starbrand for the stomp

Originally posted by Stoic
It doesn't matter who writes it because we are going with characters as they are currently. i mean imagine if i went with the most powerful version of the Hulk? WB Hulk. He would tear the Surfers arms off, but that's not done because we go with what is currently happening in Marvel. If Hickman were doing such a bad job, why hasn't he been fired yet? Why would Marvel back him if he was getting it all wrong? Ok so LT had a poor showing. How many of those has the Spectre gotten? First of all we know one thing is certain, the Builders are greater than Heralds, or Norrin would have stopped those guys from destroying the Skrull kids planet. he was useless there. The only thing that he was able to save was his own hide, and the Skrulls. Currently speaking the Surfer has a lot of yardage to make up, because I am far more impressed by the Brand's performance so far in the story. Keep it current, or it really doesn't matter at this point. At least to a certain degree. And keep in mind that Norrin has been ass whipped by less than a power capable of defending an entire planet alone. Did you take into account just what type of forces it was meant to defend against? Galactus is a planets worst nightmare. So....
Isn't Surfer "tethered" to Earth? The farther away he is the weaker he becomes. I'm willing to wager that the Skrull planet is LIGHTYEARS away from Earth, so he'd be pretty phucked engaging in a fight with anything there.

The Builders ran for their lives when the Avengers and crew turned their "World Busting" ships against them and their fleet. FAIL. The Starbrand then destroyed the few remaining stragglers that were damaged by the World Busters the Avengers hacked.

Again, the Starbrand has done nothing impressive so far.

Originally posted by Stoic
If Hickman were doing such a bad job, why hasn't he been fired yet? Why would Marvel back him if he was getting it all wrong?

Because he sells. I don't hate him, but I don't like him as much as other do either.

And Marvel would keep him even if he did everything wrong because it's Marvel. Bendis and Loeb can testify to that.

Originally posted by zopzop
Isn't Surfer "tethered" to Earth? The farther away he is the weaker he becomes. I'm willing to wager that the Skrull planet is LIGHTYEARS away from Earth, so he'd be pretty phucked engaging in a fight with anything there.

The Builders ran for their lives when the Avengers and crew turned their "World Busting" ships against them and their fleet. FAIL. The Starbrand then destroyed the few remaining stragglers that were damaged by the World Busters the Avengers hacked.

Again, the Starbrand has done nothing impressive so far.

He casually lifted his hand and caused that type of widespread destruction to the remaining fleet. i could see if he went all out and caused that much damage, but this was casual. He wasn't called into the main plan because he was in stasis along with the other universal avatars.

The Surfers condition has obviously changed, because being tethered to something literally means bound to it. Where did it state that just because he was bound to the Earth that he would be less than 100% if he went several light years away from it? I think that they made up that story because they were making it clear that Surfer may be once again counted as one of Earths main champions. I wouldn't give it much thought if I were you.

I am baffled how you can be less than impressed with the Brand while giving the Surfer such high praise, because if it were me, I'd be saying "shit, the Brand isn't all that, but gee, the Surfer's performance was several orders of magnitude crappier."

Originally posted by Stoic
He casually lifted his had and caused that type of widespread destruction to the remaining fleet. i could see if he went all out and cased that much damage, but this was casual. He wasn't called into the main plan because he was in stasis along with the other universal avatars.
You mean the fleet that was already crippled by the AVENGERS hacked World Killers? Some feat. Check out Surfer vs the Annihilation Wave fleet for a comparison and you'll see why I'm not impressed with the Brand's performance.


Where was that stated on panel, that his condition changed? Because you can ask any forum member with the scan that Surfer IS tethered to Earth and the farther away he is the weaker he'll become.


The Starbrand had HELP from the Avengers hacked World Killers that did almost ALL the work for him. The Surfer is fighting by himself in a weakened condition. See the difference?

Originally posted by zopzop

You mean the fleet that was already crippled by the AVENGERS hacked World Killers? Some feat. Check out Surfer vs the Annihilation Wave fleet for a comparison and you'll see why I'm not impressed with the Brand's performance.


Where was that stated on panel, that his condition changed? Because you can ask any forum member with the scan that Surfer IS tethered to Earth and the farther away he is the weaker he'll become.


The Starbrand had HELP from the Avengers hacked World Killers that did almost ALL the work for him. The Surfer is fighting by himself in a weakened condition. See the difference?


He casually lifted his hand, He wasn't trying to destroy the vessels, he casually destroyed them. Do you see the difference? The Surfer was going for broke in Annihilation.

Are you serious right now? Are you saying that the Surfer feels pain as soon as he is a block away from Earth? And yet he is now several light years away from it? If that were the case, he'd be as potent as a fart in the wind. it's obvious that they have disregarded his condition for this arc. Don't be surprised though, because you and I both know that this happens all of the time. Terrax ring a bell? He was land locked at one time by Galactus himself, and now suddenly without explanation he can once again travel throughout space. Tyrant ring a bell? The list of continuity glitches are light years long. Like I said, I wouldn't read too deeply into the Surfer's condition in this arc.

Again, he casually lifted his hand up. He didn't even try to destroy the crippled ships, he simply raised his hand and took them out. Imagine if he wasn't locked down and was able to get into the battle? The avengers wouldn't have needed to hack the ships. he would have likely been able to do most of the damage himself. i mean based on him just casually raising his hand, and causing that much damage without trying. I don't see the Surfer just casually lifting his hand, and seeing a fleet of war ships explode.

Crippled or otherwise.

Originally posted by Stoic
He casually lifted his hand, He wasn't trying to destroy the vessels, he casually destroyed them. Do you see the difference? The Surfer was going for broke in Annihilation.
He "casually" destroyed a few crippled ships. The Avengers already did the heavy lifting by hacking the World Busters and using them to crush the Builders fleet. The Builders themselves ran for their lives. Starbrand did next to nothing, hence why it's a meaningless "feat".


Unless it's stated otherwise on panel, the tethering is still in effect. It's not like this was some distant thing, it happened like a year or two ago. So your example fails.

Terrax's problem was he was depowered by Doom and then they both wound up killing each other. Doom was raised by the Beyonder and a New Warriors villain rezzed Terrax. The reason why Terrax couldn't travel between worlds was because he was in a mortal host body when that villain rezzed him. And his condition was faithfully adhered to during the Herald Ordeal much later. So your example fails.

And what about Tyrant?


Imagine, would have, could have, should have. This is basically just an opinion. I'm talking about concrete fights and/or feats. Surfer's SH|T all over Ellis/Hickman's Starbrand. You can keep avoiding this issue but it changes nothing.

Originally posted by zopzop

He "casually" destroyed a few crippled ships. The Avengers already did the heavy lifting by hacking the World Busters and using them to crush the Builders fleet. The Builders themselves ran for their lives. Starbrand did next to nothing, hence why it's a meaningless "feat".


Unless it's stated otherwise on panel, the tethering is still in effect. It's not like this was some distant thing, it happened like a year or two ago. So your example fails.

Terrax's problem was he was depowered by Doom and then they both wound up killing each other. Doom was raised by the Beyonder and a New Warriors villain rezzed Terrax. The reason why Terrax couldn't travel between worlds was because he was in a mortal host body when that villain rezzed him. And his condition was faithfully adhered to during the Herald Ordeal much later. So your example fails.

And what about Tyrant?


Imagine, would have, could have, should have. This is basically just an opinion. I'm talking about concrete fights and/or feats. Surfer's SH|T all over Ellis/Hickman's Starbrand. You can keep avoiding this issue but it changes nothing.

Those crippled ships were not structurally damaged, and therefore he destroyed the ships while they were intact. I have never seen the Surfer just raise his hand and destroy a fleet that large. i have seen him fly around and take out one ship at a time though in the past.


There was no indication of the Surfer being weakened by his this crippling force that you are speaking of, so I will take it that it was not written into this arc. As in the writer forgot that the Surfer was weakened. Unless you can come up with some concrete proof that the Surfer is crippled during this arc, this is a non point. Moving on.

I'm talking about how none of those feats matter due to the nature of this discussion. For one the Brand has very few feats, and thus since the Surfer is operating at lower levels than the Brand we need to stick to current events. This arc has nothing to do with what the Surfer did in Annihilation, or any of his other adventures. As of this point the Surfer that was unable to save a world from doom, and was only able to save himself, and a Skrull teen was operating at far less than the brand, who would likely casually raise his hand, and destroy the guys that Norrin failed to. neither of us are going to win this discussion, because we still need to see more feats from the Starbrand. From this point in time the Surfer would obviously win a feat war, so if that's what you're aiming at fine. However he still has been far less impressive than the Starbrand in this arc. I'm sure that i am not the only person that sees this, just like I am sure that you will be proven wrong about just how powerful the Starbrand is.

Starbrand seens to be more powerfull.

But if we go be feats, with no pis, Surfer should win. But i think in some time Starbrand will win in feats too.

Based on feats/showings ... Silver Surfer ftw.

Starbrand wins.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Based on feats/showings ... Silver Surfer ftw.

Which showings?

FTL Speed, Time Travel, Planet + durability, Matter Manipulation, Planet level TP, energy absorption, attacking with Black Holes, Intangibility etc...


Off Topic: I agree that high heralds like Gladiator or Thor, should be able to do more damage to spacecrafts than "planet killers" ships... but against space armys the heralds always get weaker, i dont know how why... PIS Less, galactus heralds could destroy good part of annihilation wave, just spamming black holes + teleport...