Lucifer Morningstar vs. Dr. Who

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Sixth_Winged
Can the doctor's deux ex machina prep skills triumph over the original primordial prep-master?

1 month prep for both

TheGodKiller
This is a difficult one. The Doctor is used to taking on guys of Lucifer's level, but Lucifer is a guy who's used to triumphing even when stripped of his God-given abilities.

abhilegend
The morningstar talks doctor into committing suicide.

/thread

Endless Mike
Lucifer

Flyattractor
Originally posted by abhilegend
The morningstar talks doctor into committing suicide.

/thread Unless its the 10th Doctor. Lucy spends only 10 minutes with that one and HE commits suicide just to get away from ....IT!

Digi
I have no desire to troll Lucifer backers. Reed backers, sure, that's been fun this past week. But I think we can all agree that the flavor of the week (DW) has run his course.

LeonBuco666
This is a tough one, and for that reason.....Im Out

guy222
LM

LeonBuco666
If The Doctor can get the Eye Of Harmony, then, well he rapes shit curb stomps LM

Digi
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
This is a tough one, and for that reason.....Im Out

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
If The Doctor can get the Eye Of Harmony, then, well he rapes shit curb stomps LM

laughing out loud

Way to stay out of it.

LeonBuco666
Originally posted by Digi
laughing out loud

Way to stay out of it.
laughing

Couldn't resist letting LM backers know The Good Doctor could just obliterate LM laughing out loud

abhilegend
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
If The Doctor can get the Eye Of Harmony, then, well he rapes shit curb stomps LM
facepalm

Do you even know who the Morningstar is?

Digi
Originally posted by abhilegend
facepalm

Do you even know who the Morningstar is?

That's half the problem with non-comic threads in the first place. If you aren't well-versed on both characters (and this goes for any thread, actually), your opinion should not carry any weight. And no, it's pretty clear he doesn't.

I love the Doctor, but lopsided bias serves no one.

DarkSaint85
The Eye of Harmony is just a black hole, right? That they used for Galifrey?

A simple black hole......

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
If The Doctor can get the Eye Of Harmony, then, well he rapes shit curb stomps LM

No.

LeonBuco666
It is not a simple black hole, it was used to rewrite the laws of the universe, the time lords used to to easily create black holes and make them a natural occurance, they also used it to make magic almost non existent in the who verse.

So no not a simple black hole.

DarkSaint85
Quick question before we proceed - do you know who Lucifer Morningstar is, and what he can do?

LeonBuco666
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Quick question before we proceed - do you know who Lucifer Morningstar is, and what he can do? he's a buddy of mine roll eyes (sarcastic)

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
he's a buddy of mine roll eyes (sarcastic)

So...that's a no? Just wondering what your starting point is.

LeonBuco666
There was no starting point, i simply stated that IF he had the Eye Of Harmony he would win

DarkSaint85
...

Maybe I'm not being clear. How much do you know about Lucifer Morningstar?

abhilegend
Originally posted by Digi
That's half the problem with non-comic threads in the first place. If you aren't well-versed on both characters (and this goes for any thread, actually), your opinion should not carry any weight. And no, it's pretty clear he doesn't.

I love the Doctor, but lopsided bias serves no one.
thumb up

To even suggest that Doctor can beat the Lightbringer is laughable.

LeonBuco666
How much do you know about the eye of harmony

DarkSaint85
Answering a question with another one.

Good call.

Digi
Originally posted by abhilegend
thumb up

To even suggest that Doctor can beat the Lightbringer is laughable.

Not necessarily. But to treat LM so dismissively is.

abhilegend
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
How much do you know about the eye of harmony
Enough that its next to nothing for someone like Lucifer.Originally posted by Digi
Not necessarily. But to treat LM so dismissively is.
So Doctor can beat Lucifer in some way?

Digi
Originally posted by abhilegend
So Doctor can beat Lucifer in some way?

Doubtful. If forced, I'd have to side with LM here. But the "laughable" comment was my main sticking point. More than the other recent prep fights, I can't gift this one to the Doctor. The Time Lords as a whole, perhaps. But I always shy away from absolutes in these type of fights. To pretend we can make accurate determinations when considering reality-warping, multiversal potential requires more than a bit of hubris, imo. The Doctor's starting advantages (TARDIS) and ability to improvise better than most give him the edge over many other known prep gods. But Lucifer has no such disadvantages.

abhilegend
Ok.

Digi
Not sure you caught the edit where I try to work through the fight. But here it is...

So like, if the Doc decided to use the Eye of Harmony to rewrite the laws of reality to benefit him and/or hurt LM, and weaponized the Heart of the TARDIS (essentially, the entirety of time and space converted to a power source) to use against LM, and managed to make the fight take place in some pocket dimension or abstract dimension outside LM's primary influence, whose properties level the playing field, or maybe the "un-space" between dimensions that is outside causal control...maybe we're getting close? But that also assumes a lopsided view of the fight, with LM doing nothing while the Doctor brings his best weapons to bear.

It would also be out of character for the Doctor, so we'd have to assume CIS is off.

Mindset
Originally posted by Digi
Not sure you caught the edit where I try to work through the fight. But here it is...

So like, if the Doc decided to use the Eye of Harmony to rewrite the laws of reality to benefit him and/or hurt LM, and weaponized the Heart of the TARDIS (essentially, the entirety of time and space converted to a power source) to use against LM, and managed to make the fight take place in some pocket dimension or abstract dimension outside LM's primary influence, whose properties level the playing field, or maybe the "un-space" between dimensions that is outside causal control...maybe we're getting close? But that also assumes a lopsided view of the fight, with LM doing nothing while the Doctor brings his best weapons to bear.

It would also be out of character for the Doctor, so we'd have to assume CIS is off. There are places where Lucifer's powers don't work or are weakened?

Digi
Originally posted by Mindset
There are places where Lucifer's powers don't work or are weakened?

Probably not. But a lot of things tend to go pear-shaped when you're in a place where the laws of reality are defined by another. A lot of this is hypotehtical, as it must be when trying to interpret how two abstract-level characters interact.

In any case, I was just outlining possible avenue(s) of victory. I wasn't saying that's the most likely outcome. As stated, I would side with LM in this thread.

LeonBuco666
So an object which can redefine the entire universe as the user see's fit will do nothing to Lucifer? I am aware that there is an argument that Michael and Lucifer created DC's creation etc but still someone like the doctor using the EOH to gain an advantage over an opponent and say that it would do squat is nonsensical, also, like digi stated, The Heart Of The Tardis is Immensly powerful, if he weaponised that and this is just a theory weaponised it to target Lucifer he has a chance imho but i was just stating he could win with the EOH.

Golgo13
Probably Lucifer.

Cogito
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
So an object which can redefine the entire universe as the user see's fit will do nothing to Lucifer? I am aware that there is an argument that Michael and Lucifer created DC's creation etc but still someone like the doctor using the EOH to gain an advantage over an opponent and say that it would do squat is nonsensical, also, like digi stated, The Heart Of The Tardis is Immensly powerful, if he weaponised that and this is just a theory weaponised it to target Lucifer he has a chance imho but i was just stating he could win with the EOH.

Lucifer already wrote a multiverse to his whim. He also tanked the Demiurgic Power (God's power) point blank and didn't flinch.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
but i was just stating he could win with the EOH.

Mmm not quite lol, you not only said he WOULD win, but that he'd rape curb stomp.

In either case, whether he would use it or not, its not a stomp in eithers favour.

cdtm
Spite. Lucifer goes down to the awesomeness that is Quadrophenia.

Digi
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
In either case, whether he would use it or not, its not a stomp in eithers favour.

thumb up

I do think I outlined the best case scenario for the Doctor. I'd be shocked if LM no-sold the attacks I mentioned. But in the myriad ways this fight could go, LM wins most of them.

TheGodKiller
@Digi: Don't listen to abhi's nonsense. Lucifer has come close to(or actually been) beaten before, so it's not a question of whether the Doctor is capable of doing so or not.

Nope, the conundrum that lies here is that Lucifer isn't exactly the standard plot device omnipotent "jobber" that characters can just plot-defeat and get it over with. Lucifer is capable of overcoming great odds(and by great, I mean GREAT) even when stripped of his vast abilities. He finds a way even when there is no way, much like the Doctor himself.

This is what makes this such a hard battle to figure out.

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