John Constantine Vs Doctor Who

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Golgo13
Which prep god wins? And state your reasoning.

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/JC_zps3eadb7cc.jpg

vs

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/DW_zpsc83d07b1.jpg

LeonBuco666
The Oncoming Storm >> John Constantine, The doctor has fought and beat tougher foes than Constantine has.

Golgo13
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
The Oncoming Storm >> John Constantine, The doctor has fought and beat tougher foes than Constantine has.

How? Constantine has bested universal, multiversal, and sometimes omniversal beings.

Brockalizer
The Doctor easily, based on quality and volume of feats.

LeonBuco666
The beast is 1 example, practically The Devil, survived the destruction of the last universe, and the creation of this one, precog, major reality warping, as stated by the doctor

Black Guardian
Sutekh
Chronovore
Mandragora Helix
The Great One(Approaching Omnipotence, very very very very very very very very very powerful, thanks to the crystals)
The master
Peak Dalek Empire
Nestene Consciousness

Digi
The butthurt backlash against the Doc is coming. I have no idea why this tendency is so cyclical.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
The beast is 1 example, practically The Devil, survived the destruction of the last universe, and the creation of this one, precog, major reality warping, as stated by the doctor

Black Guardian
Sutekh
Chronovore
Mandragora Helix
The Great One(Approaching Omnipotence, very very very very very very very very very powerful, thanks to the crystals)
The master
Peak Dalek Empire
Nestene Consciousness

To a non-fan this is just a bunch of words. Explain yourself if you're going to do this.

mhmamr
The Doctor easily, based on quality and volume of feats.

Golgo13
Please EXPLAIN. Constantine has bested omnipotent beings as well. And has loads of prep feats to his name. We're talking Vertigo Constantine. Not DCnU.

Uriel005
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
The beast is 1 example, practically The Devil, survived the destruction of the last universe, and the creation of this one, precog, major reality warping, as stated by the doctor

Black Guardian
Sutekh
Chronovore
Mandragora Helix
The Great One(Approaching Omnipotence, very very very very very very very very very powerful, thanks to the crystals)
The master
Peak Dalek Empire
Nestene Consciousness Several Great Old Ones and I mean Lovecraftian Great Old Ones as in true eldritch abominations not marvel knockoffs.
Omega who was god of the anti-matter universe
Celestial Tinkerer
Demon thing from before the start of the universe whose physics were contrary to the current universes.
Daleks (Inventions have had omniversal destructive capability most notibly in recent history being the reality bomb which would have caused the omniverse to suffer from cascading failures as reality after reality turned to dust and finally into nothing.

Several deity level beings

Who-verse, Great Vampires

Evil version of himself (Valeyard)

he is an utter dick... if you want to see some of it in the recent tv series check out what he did to the family of blood. They wanted immortality.. ok Dr. delivers. mom is trapped in an unending event horizon forever slowly falling to her death. Father I forget, Sister was trapped in every mirror to exist as the little girl you see out of the corner of your eye. Brother trapped as a scarecrow for all time ever conscious of his eternity but unable to move.

just tacking on to the list. Not sure if he beats John though.... they are hold titles for giver of supreme dicking to universal powers.

Digi
Originally posted by Golgo13
How? Constantine has bested universal, multiversal, and sometimes omniversal beings.

Same can be said of the Doctor. Or Reed. Or Lucifer. Or any of the 3-4 others that will pop up in threads this week against the Doctor.

And that's the point. Where do you draw a line? Which multiversal feat is better? Which "pull it out of your ass with duct tape and string" prep feat is more impressive? The Doctor tends to deal with such threats in an episode or two, usually in real time, and often is making it up as he goes along, doing in minutes what it takes others far longer to accomplish. So it ends up seeming more impressive than most comic feats that are equivalent in scope.

But really, it's a coin flip. Pick a side. Make sure to lowball the other character or it doesn't count.

Frankly, though, the Doctor isn't about power levels. It's almost depressing how much focus gets put on this stuff.

Uriel005
Originally posted by Digi
Same can be said of the Doctor. Or Reed. Or Lucifer. Or any of the 3-4 others that will pop up in threads this week against the Doctor.

And that's the point. Where do you draw a line? Which multiversal feat is better? Which "pull it out of your ass with duct tape and string" prep feat is more impressive? The Doctor tends to deal with such threats in an episode or two, usually in real time, and often is making it up as he goes along, doing in minutes what it takes others far longer to accomplish. So it ends up seeming more impressive than most comic feats that are equivalent in scope.

But really, it's a coin flip. Pick a side. Make sure to lowball the other character or it doesn't count.

Frankly, though, the Doctor isn't about power levels. It's almost depressing how much focus gets put on this stuff. meh its for the purpose of the debates more than anything and the fun of it.

Digi
Originally posted by Uriel005
meh its for the purpose of the debates more than anything and the fun of it.

You say that. But then we have people making bait or reactionary threads to make a point to another poster, or for/against a character. And/or weekly analytical talks about the feats of the week and how characters were portrayed, instead of focusing on literally anything else. Many members don't hope for fully realized story arcs, they hope that {insert character} doesn't job in an upcoming fight, and that {writer} will stop wanking {character}. It's an epidemic side effect of the vs. forum.

There are some that just become silly. Take the Watchmen. The least important thing about those characters are their feats. I honestly think even trying to lock them down to a power level obscures the purpose of the book. Several others are like that, and even power-based characters used to be like that. It's why PC power levels were so nutty, or any comic from that day. You think Hulk writers cared about power levels? Hell no. The Hulk was an outlet for anger, a metaphor for our inner struggles, not walking rage and fan service.

I feel like trying to translate DW "feats" to comic terms is equally fruitless, and a bit demeaning to the utter joy and brilliance of the show. The Doctor is f*cking brilliant, and a prep god. But I die a little bit trying to nit-pick the level at which his prep compares to others. It's like deconstructing an awesome toy until it's just a bunch of gears and bolts. Cold, clinical. And the most laughable part is, it's probably a giant tie between him and most of these others, given enough prep. At best, someone would win, but we have no way of actually knowing because the power levels are incomprehensibly absurd.

See what I mean?

Golgo13
Originally posted by Digi
Same can be said of the Doctor. Or Reed. Or Lucifer. Or any of the 3-4 others that will pop up in threads this week against the Doctor.

And that's the point. Where do you draw a line? Which multiversal feat is better? Which "pull it out of your ass with duct tape and string" prep feat is more impressive? The Doctor tends to deal with such threats in an episode or two, usually in real time, and often is making it up as he goes along, doing in minutes what it takes others far longer to accomplish. So it ends up seeming more impressive than most comic feats that are equivalent in scope.

But really, it's a coin flip. Pick a side. Make sure to lowball the other character or it doesn't count.

Frankly, though, the Doctor isn't about power levels. It's almost depressing how much focus gets put on this stuff.


Im not against who winning. I like the character. But all the reasons im hearing
Can be said about constantine too.

Uriel005
Originally posted by Digi
You say that. But then we have people making bait or reactionary threads to make a point to another poster, or for/against a character. And/or weekly analytical talks about the feats of the week and how characters were portrayed, instead of focusing on literally anything else. Many members don't hope for fully realized story arcs, they hope that {insert character} doesn't job in an upcoming fight, and that {writer} will stop wanking {character}. It's an epidemic side effect of the vs. forum.

There are some that just become silly. Take the Watchmen. The least important thing about those characters are their feats. I honestly think even trying to lock them down to a power level obscures the purpose of the book. Several others are like that, and even power-based characters used to be like that. It's why PC power levels were so nutty, or any comic from that day. You think Hulk writers cared about power levels? Hell no. The Hulk was an outlet for anger, a metaphor for our inner struggles, not walking rage and fan service.

I feel like trying to translate DW "feats" to comic terms is equally fruitless, and a bit demeaning to the utter joy and brilliance of the show. The Doctor is f*cking brilliant, and a prep god. But I die a little bit trying to nit-pick the level at which his prep compares to others. It's like deconstructing an awesome toy until it's just a bunch of gears and bolts. Cold, clinical. And the most laughable part is, it's probably a giant tie between him and most of these others, given enough prep. At best, someone would win, but we have no way of actually knowing because the power levels are incomprehensibly absurd.

See what I mean? absolutely correct, but as I said this is just fun for me. Theory-crafting in my head how different characters would respond that is. For me most threads aren't about power levels or anything more along the lines of how can I make it more interesting to me and challenging myself to find/come up with supporting arguments for different characters to pitch them against another. Heck sometimes I support characters I don't think will win just to see what other people can come up with and eke out more than... i think character x wins. which is just boring. Unfortunately this has led more often than not to people trying to disprove canon feats rather than trying to prove their own characters capabilities to stack up against it.

Digi
Originally posted by Golgo13
Im not against who winning. I like the character. But all the reasons im hearing
Can be said about constantine too.

Ok. And it can be said about the Doctor.

Maybe we'll open an internet portal if we keep going with the recursion.

Golgo13
So a split?

Digi
Originally posted by Golgo13
So a split?

So a "we don't know" or a "pick your favorite." It's ok not to have an answer.

srug

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Digi
You say that. But then we have people making bait or reactionary threads to make a point to another poster, or for/against a character. And/or weekly analytical talks about the feats of the week and how characters were portrayed, instead of focusing on literally anything else. Many members don't hope for fully realized story arcs, they hope that {insert character} doesn't job in an upcoming fight, and that {writer} will stop wanking {character}. It's an epidemic side effect of the vs. forum. I do this, but it's because the stories aren't good to begin with. And with a shitty story, I don't want to see the characters I like thrown in there for the sole purpose of losing.
It's going to happen when Pak and Bendis keep touching my favorite characters. Bendis is literally obsessed with making Thanos say "Earthers" too

Not sure how I feel about Infinity either.

I'd rather have a good story than an action story, but with so many shitty stories and such a huge focus on action, all I can hope for is the best. srug

Mindset
They have both worn trench coats in the past.

Fact.

Golgo13
Originally posted by Mindset
They have both worn trench coats in the past.

Fact.

thumb up

Diesldude
Originally posted by Digi
The butthurt backlash against the Doc is coming. I have no idea why this tendency is so cyclical.



To a non-fan this is just a bunch of words. Explain yourself if you're going to do this.


Linky

Digi
Originally posted by Diesldude
Linky

Usually "Let Me Google that for you" is a sarcastic reply to something easily ascertainable. The link you sent me to was neither specific to Doctor Who (though one of the links it had was), nor did it disambiguate the post I asked Leon to extrapolate on. I'm not sure what you were going for with it. Yes, it's possible to google that character. But Leon listed way too many characters without proper context. My original point - that the post needed further justification - stands.

Mindset
Originally posted by Digi
Usually "Let Me Google that for you" is a sarcastic reply to something easily ascertainable. The link you sent me to was neither specific to Doctor Who (though one of the links it had was), nor did it disambiguate the post I asked Leon to extrapolate on. I'm not sure what you were going for with it. Yes, it's possible to google that character. But Leon listed way too many characters without proper context. My original point - that the post needed further justification - stands. Link

Digi
Originally posted by Mindset
Link

Free Chilean Dating Service appears in that search, about 8 links down. Jackpot.

abhilegend
Constantine wins. The only right answer in this thread.

Mindset
What if I said The Doctor loses?

LeonBuco666
Black Guardian --- the embodiment of chaos throughout space and time, 1 part of the 6 fold god, guardian of time, counterpart to the white guardian of light, the guardian of chaos is as powerful as his element is in the universe, omnipotent being
Sutekh ------ known as The destroyer he seeked to destroy all life in the universe, he feared all life would one day challenge his hegemony, he had immense power, able to change the entire course of history, destroy entire stellar systems and bring back the dead, could easily read the mind of the doctor, and many other time lords, said to be far above time lords at peak power, apart from ours truly of course.
Chronovore ---- a race of transcendental beings, god like, feasting on alternate dimensions, humanoid pasts(favoured timelords) able to change history, future & completey erase anything from existence, powerful reality warping powers
Mandragora Helix --- made of pure helix energy, existed within its own domain in the uncharted area of the time vortex, can change physical appearance at will. Astral form capable of speech, higher intelligence, could pretty much do whatever it wanted with its intangible mind, may or may not act as hive mind.
The Great One(Approaching Omnipotence, very very very very very very very very very powerful, thanks to the crystals) ---- infinite power and knowledge but failed to vent it, was dastardly powerful with her mind, lol, dastardly.
The master --- well well well, do i have to do this *******? Think, the doctor, not as dangerous, but he outperformed the doctor when they were children in everything, his mental abilities are more, pronounced than the doctors are, but are said to be the same, he can anticipate the doctors moves also, the doctor has stated him to be "stone cold brilliant" and he could be something "more" if he would not always try to dominate.
Peak Dalek Empire ---- fought the time lords head on, they were winning and would have outright wiped out the timelords if not for the doctor simply obliterating their entire race along with the entire race of time lords, to stop the destruction of the entire multiverse, the great time war >>> John constantine would have a ****ing jar of glue how to handle that.
Nestene Consciousness -- a super duper uber higher intelligence, able to take control of all and any form of plastic in the omniverse, multiverse, universe etc a being of pure and utter psychic energy.

The Doctor >>> John Constantine

Endless Mike
They both do similar things against similar odds but generally John has less to work with. However one mainly deals with technological threats and the other deals with mystical. So not exactly sure how that would work. They should probably team up.

LeonBuco666
Oh yeah, i forgot about john being all magical and such, this is something the doctor wouldnt need to do but all he has to do is use the eye of harmony, used to rewrite the laws of the universe, ie make black holes naturally occur or make any form of magic almost non existent.

jitay
A John Constantine/Dr Who team up would be ****ing awesome

LeonBuco666
They would be unstoppable, imagine a Doctor, Doom, John & Reed vs Dc/Marvel

beatboks
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
They would be unstoppable, imagine a Doctor, Doom, John & Reed vs Dc/Marvel

Throw in Ultra Humanite and a few hours prep ( OK MAYBE a Day) with full co-operation of their knoweldge and Ultra to link all their minds and they'd rape stomp

LeonBuco666
**** it im doing that thread

Diesldude
Originally posted by Digi
I'm not sure what you were going for with it. Yes, it's possible to google that character. But Leon listed way too many characters without proper context. This^^^

I was under the impression that you could learn by example and google the rest of the character you were unaware of. stick out tongue

Digi
Originally posted by Diesldude
This^^^

I was under the impression that you could learn by example and google the rest of the character you were unaware of. stick out tongue

I'm aware of all of them. I'm a big DW fan. But debate generally involves explaining one's position, not making a list and expecting others to do the legwork. As it is, Leon has followed up (either in this threads or another), so the situation is mostly rectified. Thanks for the attempted lesson though.

wink

LeonBuco666
Sorry about the half assed list guys, now stop bitching an trying to be smart to digi

Digi
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Sorry about the half assed list guys, now stop bitching an trying to be smart to digi

Lol, I'm getting the hate? I was just responding to the "Let Me Google That..." trolling.

I don't know enough about Constantine to have an opinion here. But this prep mess that's running rampant atm is amusing to me.

LeonBuco666
Originally posted by Digi
Lol, I'm getting the hate? I was just responding to the "Let Me Google That..." trolling.

I don't know enough about Constantine to have an opinion here. But this prep mess that's running rampant atm is amusing to me. lol no not you, i was saying to everyone else to stop being smart asses towards you

Golgo13
Originally posted by Endless Mike
They both do similar things against similar odds but generally John has less to work with. However one mainly deals with technological threats and the other deals with mystical. So not exactly sure how that would work. They should probably team up.

thumb up Plus, he's a master manipulator. He can also summon uber beings as well.

operator616
in Paul Jenkins' last Hellblazer arc, john outsmarted God - The Presence.

That's his best showing.

LeonBuco666
The presence isnt god, the presence also has very very little showings, TP has also stated that there are beings above him.
So his best feat in a forum fight? No

operator616
Right. Which is why his bio specifically states that he's God (vertigo encyclopedia 2008)

http://i.imgur.com/j3ZSe8d.jpg?1

In the issue itself (hellblazer #128), he's been called God, as well as "the creator"

http://i.imgur.com/obwvgEJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NqxjnNS.jpg

The Presence is the God by which most writers go on, however there are a few exceptions, like the over monitor who has been also called God in an interview by grant morrison.

LeonBuco666
Thank you, i was just stating that the presence himself has stated that there are others above him, how many I dont know, but its bold for anybody to call him the creator god when he has been Stated to be below others, when Lucifer and Michael have been stated as to create the Multiverse in DC but yeah, in terms of implied power and status, its an uber feat, but when you look at the presence' feats he has next to none with nearly no appearances

Endless Mike
In terms of intelligence though the Presence was able to completely outwit and outplan Lucifer.

Golgo13
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Thank you, i was just stating that the presence himself has stated that there are others above him, how many I dont know, but its bold for anybody to call him the creator god when he has been Stated to be below others, when Lucifer and Michael have been stated as to create the Multiverse in DC but yeah, in terms of implied power and status, its an uber feat, but when you look at the presence' feats he has next to none with nearly no appearances

Those are the writers/creators he's referring to. Like TOOA.

operator616
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Thank you, i was just stating that the presence himself has stated that there are others above him, how many I dont know, but its bold for anybody to call him the creator god when he has been Stated to be below others, when Lucifer and Michael have been stated as to create the Multiverse in DC but yeah, in terms of implied power and status, its an uber feat, but when you look at the presence' feats he has next to none with nearly no appearances

Not really, considering that the Presence has been referenced as being the creator more times than i could count and is shown doing so, on panel (im putting the Lucifer series aside, in which it was established that lucifer and michael were its creators) . Still, that's no surprise that we have a contradiction since there's also many more different creation stories which contradict each other.

A supreme being doesn't really has to have any feats, but if you want any; The Presence was literally holding all of creation with 1 hand, and was deciding whether to destroy it or preserve it through Elaine and Lilith.
When the spectre was shown the nature of God, he contained all the multiverse inside him, and was feeling every particle of it.

operator616
Originally posted by Endless Mike
In terms of intelligence though the Presence was able to completely outwit and outplan Lucifer.

Yep, funny enough, Lucifer's whole rebellion was revealed to be nothing more than one of Presence's preordained events in the scheme of things.

now that we're comparing Lucifer and John, that's what Mike Carey had to say, when asked who's better:

---

Interview Link:

http://www.slushfactory.com/content/EpVlVFklZAmiBZDaKS.php

---

AN: If Constantine and Lucifer were in a drag down take out no-holds-barred fight, who wins?

MC: Lucifer wins, then as he's walking away he realizes his wallet's gone.

complexbrother
Who

Golgo13
Originally posted by complexbrother
Who

How?

Kazenji
I'm going with Who

as for the how part....you will have to wait.

Golgo13
Originally posted by Golgo13
How?

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