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So here we have two popular fantasy universes with enormous lore that breaks fantasy tropes (Elder Scrolls is INCREDIBLE at this). This is an all out battle in which every force in one universe is united against the other.

The Maker (if he even exists), Tiber Septim, Talos and Vivec are banned from the fight due to being broken auto win characters (and Vivec shoving his dick up enemy throats).

This is to see people's opinions on the matter. I'm proudly on Elder Scrolls side.

Some examples?

Blood Mages vs Necromancers? Dread Wolf vs Lorkhan? Old Gods vs Daedric Princes? Demons vs Daedra? Undead vs Undead? Ash Creatures vs...?

I say dragon age wins

Argumented posts, where did they go...?

Dragon age wins because one if a darkspawn cuts you you become a darkspawn. They have Ogres that tank fire, and I think they have more dragons. Also blood magic that some powerful shit.

Originally posted by I am Vegeta
Dragon age wins because one if a darkspawn cuts you you become a darkspawn. They have Ogres that tank fire, and I think they have more dragons. Also blood magic that some powerful shit.

You become a ghoul, not a darkspawn. Ghouls are useless zombified humans. I don't think a darkspawn can make a god into a ghoul. The only dragon would be the Archdemon. Blood Magic... lets counter it with Dawn Magic, that broken shit Altmer like to pull that ****s you over inside a space in which time is non-linear

still they turn into ghouls still turns the table, apparently you have never played dragon age if you think the archdemon is the only dragon, allies in dragon age are more powerful then skyrim ones, and Ogres tank elemental spells. Theirs also the grey wardens

Originally posted by I am Vegeta
still they turn into ghouls still turns the table, apparently you have never played dragon age if you think the archdemon is the only dragon, allies in dragon age are more powerful then skyrim ones, and Ogres tank elemental spells. Theirs also the grey wardens

Played Origins and II from start to finish. This is a verse battle, mind you. Everything vs Everything. Allies ain't shit in this match and that is a gameplay mechanic by the way. Grey Wardens get nuked by Redguards and their swords And please don't resort to flaming, that thing hurts the forum

Grey wardens beat redguards also if thats the case then dragon age definitely wins. Because they have more then one game I thought it was like dragon age 2 but if its all of them skyrim gets outnumbered and crushed.

The old Gods > daedric princes, they can only be killed by a grey warden anyway.....

Also there's Corypheus, whom enslaved an entire group of Grey Wardens/Dwarves with his power, and was basically a master sorcerer. Plus there's the 2 factions of darkspawn led by the Mother/The Architect, there's armored ogres (normal ogres can tank almost anything), There's High Dragons, Mage armies (College of winterhold doesn't have nearly as many mages imo), Grey Wardens, dwarven/golem armies, etc.

Originally posted by I am Vegeta
Grey wardens beat redguards also if thats the case then dragon age definitely wins. Because they have more then one game I thought it was like dragon age 2 but if its all of them skyrim gets outnumbered and crushed.

Elder Scrolls SERIES. I mean all the games not just Skyrim

Then this is spite and needs to close down cause they have like 10 games so it would be unfair

Originally posted by I am Vegeta
Then this is spite and needs to close down cause they have like 10 games so it would be unfair

Not really....

Amount of games is irrelevant, many of the creatures in skyrim are the same as its predecessors.

Elder Scrolls. I'm just willing to bet. When you take it all into account, you have to include Magnus. Even if these Old Gods are more powerful than the Daedra, Magnus is bound to be even more powerful than them still.

As I said, the old gods can literally only be killed by a grey warden. There's also the ancient tevinter mages (whom tried to usurp the maker), There's legions of dragons, there's the darkspawn and demons (both of which vastly outnumber to armies of the Elder Scrolls).

It doesn't matter if you only have one way to die when you have no way to win. That's what we call a no limits fallacy anyway, typically banned in these threads to prevent the constant back and forth of no limit spear vs no limit shield type shit.

Dragons in Elder Scrolls are also only killed by Dragonborn. Their soul remains, which is how Alduin brought them back. A no limits thing, again, but I'm hoping this helps me make the point not to underestimate the races of Tamriel.

Anyway, Daedra are some of the most powerful godlike beings in existence, capable of doing just about anything. And the creation story in ES goes that, when Lorkhan tricked the other gods, their divinity was being drained to create the realm of Mundus. When some gods caught on, they left the realm and went back to Aetherius, creating the stars, holes into Aetherius through which the Magicka flows into Nirn. Magnus was the first to leave, retaining the most of his power, which is why the hole he left is the largest, the sun.

There are also scores of things in ES that we don't know anything about. The vast majority of the continent of Akavir, for example. It's apparently home to the Tsaeci snake people, who may or may not be immortal like the dragons, an entire nation of tiger people who's leader found a way to turn himself into a dragon, a nation of "snow demons," hundreds of islands populated by monkey people, the old continents of Aldermis and Atmora, as well as possibly thousands of smaller and larger islands between all of these continents.

Like I said. I don't know Dragon Age, but if that one dragon from a thread with Quanchi was one of their most powerful living beings, the ES verse has the mortal battlefield claimed already, and I'm betting Magnus won't be highly bothered by these Old gods.

lol, Elder Scrolls stomps.

In the ESverse there are swordsmen that can cut atoms apart and create atomic blasts. Mages that can move huge islands. And a dragon that has devoured the world several times.

And no, the Old Gods are not more powerful than the Daedric Princes who can rip huge asteroids out of orbit and devastate continents for the lulz.

Lets discuss some more "Mortal" stuff. I don't want this to become a fight that depends on gods to win. So, in favor of Dragon Age, I think Blood Magic can harness lots of hit power if left in the hand of a skilled magister with many slaves. Enough to one shot many people I guess



Aldmeris doesn't exist and Atmora is a forzen wasteland. There are more powerful beings than Daedra, but they are banned

Originally posted by trexalfa
Lets discuss some more "Mortal" stuff. I don't want this to become a fight that depends on gods to win. So, in favor of Dragon Age, I think Blood Magic can harness lots of hit power if left in the hand of a skilled magister with many slaves. Enough to one shot many people I guess



Aldmeris doesn't exist and Atmora is a forzen wasteland. There are more powerful beings than Daedra, but they are banned

What is it that makes you think Aldmeris doesn't exist? And why is Atmora a frozen wasteland? I've never heard anything about either of these options.

Get me one Dragonborn. Blood Magic is inferior. The Greybeards have shaken their entire continent/planet with the Voice.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
What is it that makes you think Aldmeris doesn't exist? And why is Atmora a frozen wasteland? I've never heard anything about either of these options.

Get me one Dragonborn. Blood Magic is inferior. The Greybeards have shaken their entire continent/planet with the Voice.

I know right? Because of Atmora being frozen did men (except Redguards) come to Tamriel. Aldmeris is a collection of residual memories of the Dawn Era (in which time was non-linear and Men and Mer were et'ada) which remain in Mer and has become a myth about their origin, which they continue to believe to consider themselves superior to Men. All life originated in Mundus originated in Tamriel in TES.

Got a source for that? I don't remember any of it, myself.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Got a source for that? I don't remember any of it, myself.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept

The Nu Mantia Intercept is very lore heavy, but it isn't nearly as confusing like, say, the Loveletter. In this Intercepts you can find info about the nature of Aldmeris and where did life originate from. Plus some important info about Mundus' metaphysics, which is the main part of this letters

Atmora being a frozen wasteland is known from the First Pocket Guide I believe:

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-and-its-environs-first-edition

The Redguards migrated from Yokuda not Atmora. The Nords are said to be from Atmora.

With that said, no one knows what Yokuda is like at the time of Skyrim, Atmora is a frozen wasteland, atleast people think so.

However there is still, Aldmeris, Thras, Pyandorea and Akavir. Continents that we know little about. Not to mention the countless small groups of islands which we have no knowledge about.

Elder Scrolls for the win imo.

Originally posted by Utrigita
The Redguards migrated from Yokuda not Atmora. The Nords are said to be from Atmora.

With that said, no one knows what Yokuda is like at the time of Skyrim, Atmora is a frozen wasteland, atleast people think so.

However there is still, Aldmeris, Thras, Pyandorea and Akavir. Continents that we know little about. Not to mention the countless small groups of islands which we have no knowledge about.

Elder Scrolls for the win imo.

I said that every man, EXCEPT Redguards, came from Atmora. We know how Yokuda is like however, a complete desert, destroyed by Redguards who abused the Pankratosword, which is basicly a sword style that cuts atoms apart. We know very little about the other continents (we know the most about Akavir of them, such as an aspect of the Time God being the leader of a race).

As I said previously, Aldmeris doesn't exist

Originally posted by trexalfa
I said that every man, EXCEPT Redguards, came from Atmora. We know how Yokuda is like however, a complete desert, destroyed by Redguards who abused the Pankratosword, which is basicly a sword style that cuts atoms apart. We know very little about the other continents (we know the most about Akavir of them, such as an aspect of the Time God being the leader of a race).

As I said previously, Aldmeris doesn't exist

We know that it appears that way yes. We also don't know if it was the sword or another reason. We know about Thras and that Sload that they has signifant strength, enough to challenge the Summerset Isles. We know the Maormer lives on Pyandorea. My point is that there is plenty of unknown factors in regards to the army that Elder Scrolls can field, but that the army is significantly stronger and larger then just Tamriels forces.

The Altmer certainly seems to think that it still exist. But ultimately no proof of it existing or not can be provided as far as I know. But it most certainly have existed. Although I know the Moth Priests disagree.

Originally posted by Utrigita
We know that it appears that way yes. We also don't know if it was the sword or another reason. We know about Thras and that Sload that they has signifant strength, enough to challenge the Summerset Isles. We know the Maormer lives on Pyandorea. My point is that there is plenty of unknown factors in regards to the army that Elder Scrolls can field, but that the army is significantly stronger and larger then just Tamriels forces.

The Altmer certainly seems to think that it still exist. But ultimately no proof of it existing or not can be provided as far as I know. But it most certainly have existed. Although I know the Moth Priests disagree.

Read the Intercept in the post above. It certainly proves that Aldmeris still exists, in the minds of Mer. It never existed as a physical place and thus hasn't got any inhabitants. Here is the exact quote:

"This sundering of purpose is the myth of the "destruction of Aldmeris." Outside of the Dawn, and even then only in the dreamtime of its landscape, there was never a terrestrial homeland of the Elves. "Old Ehlnofey" is a magical ideal of mixed memories of the Dawn."

Vivec blatantly states that Yokuda is that way because of Pankratosword, so I take that as fact due to CHIM

Originally posted by trexalfa
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept

The Nu Mantia Intercept is very lore heavy, but it isn't nearly as confusing like, say, the Loveletter. In this Intercepts you can find info about the nature of Aldmeris and where did life originate from. Plus some important info about Mundus' metaphysics, which is the main part of this letters


Oh, more of this stuff. I've read some of this material before, but I assumed it was just more work from Kirkbride or whoever and not technically a full part of the games.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Oh, more of this stuff. I've read some of this material before, but I assumed it was just more work from Kirkbride or whoever and not technically a full part of the games.

Deemed canon until Bethesda says otherwise, which won't happen cause Kirkbride's got very influential friends among the writers

There is no opinion involved.

TES wins, easily.

Even discounting those of divine origin (I'll even include the Tribunal in this listing), there are mages who can erase you from existence with math, and immensely powerful Masters of the Voice like Miraak would solo, what with their large island level Thu'ums and shit.

Originally posted by trexalfa
Read the Intercept in the post above. It certainly proves that Aldmeris still exists, in the minds of Mer. It never existed as a physical place and thus hasn't got any inhabitants. Here is the exact quote:

"This sundering of purpose is the myth of the "destruction of Aldmeris." Outside of the Dawn, and even then only in the dreamtime of its landscape, there was never a terrestrial homeland of the Elves. "Old Ehlnofey" is a magical ideal of mixed memories of the Dawn."

Vivec blatantly states that Yokuda is that way because of Pankratosword, so I take that as fact due to CHIM

I'm well aware of what the Moth Priests think. I have said so already. I however also think that it's quite clear that what is shown in the lore books like this one, is meant as a debate concerning Aldmeris, and a attempt to debuke the myth. However that certainly doesn't mean that Aldmeris didn't exist. The Moth Priests doesn't think so, and good for them, but other scholars those with elven heritage disagree. Hence my previous statement that you can't draw anything conclusive out of the game concerning Aldmeris.

I have never head Vivec claim such a thing. source? I heard Vivec talk about Stone Magic but that is it.

Originally posted by Utrigita
I'm well aware of what the Moth Priests think. I have said so already. I however also think that it's quite clear that what is shown in the lore books like this one, is meant as a debate concerning Aldmeris, and a attempt to debuke the myth. However that certainly doesn't mean that Aldmeris didn't exist. The Moth Priests doesn't think so, and good for them, but other scholars those with elven heritage disagree. Hence my previous statement that you can't draw anything conclusive out of the game concerning Aldmeris.

I have never head Vivec claim such a thing. source? I heard Vivec talk about Stone Magic but that is it.

"You would destroy the home of your ancestors even more? And in the fashion that they had done, which is now forbidden in your hands?"

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/lord-vivecs-sword-meeting-cyrus-restless

Originally posted by trexalfa
"You would destroy the home of your ancestors even more? And in the fashion that they had done, which is now forbidden in your hands?"

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/lord-vivecs-sword-meeting-cyrus-restless

I'm sorry, but I need to have this clarified. Are we taking into account, text written by a former developer, as lore equal to that lore which is shown in the books ingame?

Originally posted by Utrigita
I'm sorry, but I need to have this clarified. Are we taking into account, text written by a former developer, as lore equal to that lore which is shown in the books ingame?

I don't know about the rest of us, but he certainly is:

Originally posted by trexalfa
Deemed canon until Bethesda says otherwise, which won't happen cause Kirkbride's got very influential friends among the writers

I don't think so. If he's no longer a writer for the actual games, his extra material should probably be considered secondary canon and debatable. You wouldn't call all Star Wars EU material primary material until Lucas say otherwise, would ya? Well maybe you would, I don't know. But I probably wouldn't.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I don't know about the rest of us, but he certainly is:



I don't think so. If he's no longer a writer for the actual games, his extra material should probably be considered secondary canon and debatable. You wouldn't call all Star Wars EU material primary material until Lucas say otherwise, would ya? Well maybe you would, I don't know. But I probably wouldn't.

I agree with the star wars example, I was just slightly confused. I'm not familiar with what you perceive as canon in the Games versus section

But in the end it doesn't matter, Elder Scrolls verse still wins this. In a rather crushing fashion imo.

Michael Kirkbride's writings are not valid until actually referenced in-game.

ES Verse stomps. Mundus isn't the only world/dimension of existence, there's like one for each Daedric Prince and every single daedra can't be permanently killed, only banished.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Michael Kirkbride's writings are not valid until actually referenced in-game.

The Aldudagga was referenced in Skyrim. MK still returns to work at TES in some points.



We got way off topic here



The entire lore community deems them as canon until proved otherwise, take a look at the official lore forums and the forums at the Imperial Library. Nobody in there screaming "Non-canon" at the writings of MK

Concerning The Albudagga, what are you arguing?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Concerning The Albudagga, what are you arguing?

Painted Cows which were in it and got referenced in Skyrim