Doomsday vs WW Hulk

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



swandivelmeistr
Title pretty much says it all. Most powerful version of canon Doomsday vs World War Hulk. Fight to the death. Who wins?

DarkSaint85
Oh my.

This thread is going to sh!t rapidly, as various agendas come out.

MF DELPH
I'll fire the first shot:

Doomsday, because he's already been beaten to death, and that's all Hulk brings to any table.

Cogito
H/P DD easily

carver9
Hulk easily.

Insane Titan
Could go either, lol at easily fanboy idiots at there best

Cogito
Originally posted by Insane Titan
Could go either, lol at easily fanboy idiots at there best

This isn't fanboyism, it's hardly even a challenge.

H/P Doomsday engaged bigger guns than WWH, and wasn't even hurt.

90's Darkseid, when he was beast and not a jobber? The same Darkseid who one-shot Hank and one-shot missiles Superman couldn't budge? Took his best shot and one-paneled him.

Amped Superman? Didn't hurt DD at all. DD broke his arm like a twig and shrugged off the force of a million nukes that rocked Superman.

Waverider (trans-level dude btw)? DD dispersed his energies with zero effort.

abhilegend
Also Radiant who killed the same doomsday who was mowing through green lanterns and survived a guardian's suicide in a blast that destroyed 1/5th of a planet (which if you've read enough Jurgens' comics is above pretty much any herald level fight he's written) had no effect on H/P Doomsday.

Cogito
Originally posted by abhilegend
Also Radiant who killed the same doomsday who was mowing through green lanterns and survived a guardian's suicide in a blast that destroyed 1/5th of a planet (which if you've read enough Jurgens' comics is above pretty much any herald level fight he's written) had no effect on H/P Doomsday.

Yeah I didn't mention that because it was a clear case of adaptation to a prior enemy's abilities, but yeah, DD adapts thumb up

janus77
Hulk wins this, pretty easily at that.

swandivelmeistr
Originally posted by janus77
Hulk wins this, pretty easily at that.


Any particular reason you'd care to share?

carver9
90's Superman, while amped isn't close in power to pre reboot or current Superman...let alone WWH. Superman back then also did well against this version of Doomsday. The Darkseid showing was great and all but that doesn't mean he would physically take down Hulk...someone who is clearly stronger than him and can adapt as well along with getting even more powerful while the fight progress.

Cogito
Originally posted by carver9
90's Superman, while amped isn't close in power to pre reboot or current Superman...let alone WWH. Superman back then also did well against this version of Doomsday. The Darkseid showing was great and all but that doesn't mean he would physically take down Hulk...someone who is clearly stronger than him and can adapt as well along with getting even more powerful while the fight progress.

1. Prove Hulk is "clearly" stronger than early Darkseid. Don't just make baseless statements, especially when you don't know shit about Darkseid.

2. Point is, Superman wasn't even close to being able to hurt Doomsday, let alone defeat him. We saw later the same H/P Doomsday was at least equal to Loeb Superman, as the two of them were tearing through Imperiex Probes like tissue paper. The same probes who were tearing through formidable teams of heroes (e.g. JLA, JSA, LOSH + Mordru).

abhilegend
Originally posted by carver9
90's Superman, while amped isn't close in power to pre reboot or current Superman...let alone WWH. Superman back then also did well against this version of Doomsday. The Darkseid showing was great and all but that doesn't mean he would physically take down Hulk...someone who is clearly stronger than him and can adapt as well along with getting even more powerful while the fight progress.
That superman was amped by kryptonite-x and that's where superman got his upgrade from byrne's weak superman. He was the same superman who was throwing ships the size of a small moon to other solar system and shit. He was absolutely comparable to preboot superman at the end.

carver9
Originally posted by abhilegend
That superman was amped by kryptonite-x and that's where superman got his upgrade from byrne's weak superman. He was the same superman who was throwing ships the size of a small moon to other solar system and shit. He was absolutely comparable to preboot superman at the end.

He really wasn't comparable to pre reboot based off fts. You know what I am saying is true, just type "I agree with you Carver".

carver9
Originally posted by Cogito
1. Prove Hulk is "clearly" stronger than early Darkseid. Don't just make baseless statements, especially when you don't know shit about Darkseid.

2. Point is, Superman wasn't even close to being able to hurt Doomsday, let alone defeat him. We saw later the same H/P Doomsday was at least equal to Loeb Superman, as the two of them were tearing through Imperiex Probes like tissue paper. The same probes who were tearing through formidable teams of heroes (e.g. JLA, JSA, LOSH + Mordru).

That wasn't the true Darkseid iirc. Even if it was, there's nothing supporting him being on Hulks level physically.

Superman did hurt him though and again, this version of Superman was weaker than current Superman before the reboot. I would give the latest version of Superman the majority against Doomsday as well since he received a major power increase after fighting HP.

Cogito
Originally posted by carver9
That wasn't the true Darkseid iirc. Even if it was, there's nothing supporting him being on Hulks level physically.

Superman did hurt him though and again, this version of Superman was weaker than current Superman before the reboot. I would give the latest version of Superman the majority against Doomsday as well since he received a major power increase after fighting HP.

1. No.

2. No, Superman did not hurt him. Closest he got was using sonics, which lasted about half a second before DD adapted.

3. See OWAW

carver9
Originally posted by Cogito
1. No.

2. No, Superman did not hurt him. Closest he got was using sonics, which lasted about half a second before DD adapted.

3. See OWAW

Glad we agree nothing supports him being on Hulks level.

Superman did hurt him.

Why do I need to read OWAW again? I know of all the times the probes been damaged.

Cogito
Originally posted by carver9
Why do I need to read OWAW again?

Because I don't actually believe you've read anything, ever.

abhilegend
Originally posted by carver9
He really wasn't comparable to pre reboot based off fts. You know what I am saying is true, just type "I agree with you Carver".
Now you're just being obtuse which for you is being normal.

carver9
Originally posted by Cogito
Because I don't actually believe you've read anything, ever.

Bring up an issue number and I will post the entire comic in this thread. Deal?

abhilegend
Originally posted by carver9
Why do I need to read OWAW again? Because you haven't read it.

abhilegend
Originally posted by carver9
Bring up an issue number and I will post the entire comic in this thread. Deal?
And get banned? Do it cogito.

deathslash
Doomsday wins this

Cogito
Originally posted by carver9
Bring up an issue number and I will post the entire comic in this thread. Deal?

I have tons of issues that I can post that I haven't actually read, what's your point?

bbrem123
i love how dc fans think all dc characters are superior to marvel

makes me laugh

Golgo13
Doomsday.

Cogito
Originally posted by bbrem123
i love how dc fans think all dc characters are superior to marvel

makes me laugh

Sometimes DC characters are superior to Marvel. Sometimes Marvel characters are superior to DC. In my experience, DC tends to play to physicality more than Marvel, which mixes in magic/science. Because of that, DC characters tend to have greater/more frequent physical feats, IMO.

carver9
Originally posted by abhilegend
And get banned? Do it cogito.

You of all people should know I've read it how much we've debated on the topic/comics.

jitay
Whoever gets punched onto the sun first

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
You of all people should know I've read it how much we've debated on the topic/comics.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm not denying you because you could be right...I just don't remember it. embarrasment

If it is true...thumbs up, another win on Carver9. Don't get use to it. mad

carver9
Lol...when did I post that?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Lol...when did I post that?

Mar 18th, 2012

A momentous day indeed, that is when I knew you and I could be best buddies.

-Pr-
lol, I love how HP/DD is only a complete monster when he's fighting other DC characters.

Dat bias.

He'd beat WWH.

Estacado
Doomsday whoops this overrated Hulk.....uhuh

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Mar 18th, 2012

A momentous day indeed, that is when I knew you and I could be best buddies.

thumb up

The most highlighted KMC moment ever.

Batman-Prime
HP DD every time

h1a8
DD is faster, far more durable, stronger, and can cut and rip WWH up faster than he can respond.

carver9
Hulk wins 7/10

quanchi112
Originally posted by bbrem123
i love how dc fans think all dc characters are superior to marvel

makes me laugh Being 2nd place to the big bads at Marvel makes people cranky.

WW Hulk wins.

maxivitopowe
WWH

abhilegend
Originally posted by carver9
You of all people should know I've read it how much we've debated on the topic/comics.
Your recent ability to download torrents don't make up for your ignorance.

quanchi112
Originally posted by abhilegend
Your recent ability to download torrents don't make up for your ignorance. Doesn't make up for your ignorance, irony.

Tony Stark
Originally posted by MF DELPH
I'll fire the first shot:

Doomsday, because he's already been beaten to death, and that's all Hulk brings to any table.


Has DD been torn in half before? He will have after this one. WWH wins

carver9
Originally posted by abhilegend
Your recent ability to download torrents don't make up for your ignorance.

Torrents doesn't have a thing to do with this. We've debated this topic numerous of times. You know I've read the books.

abhilegend
You have?

quanchi112
Originally posted by abhilegend
You have? Based on what does Dd win iyo ?

carver9
Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on what does Dd win iyo ?

ABHI...look at what Quan is asking.

abhilegend
He is asking for candy?

quanchi112
Originally posted by carver9
ABHI...look at what Quan is asking. He forfeited his honor to me when he backed out of our battlezone.

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
90's Superman, while amped isn't close in power to pre reboot or current Superman...let alone WWH. Superman back then also did well against this version of Doomsday. The Darkseid showing was great and all but that doesn't mean he would physically take down Hulk...someone who is clearly stronger than him and can adapt as well along with getting even more powerful while the fight progress.

Carver, before the Kryptonite-X power-up, Superman restrained Blaze in a dimension that was weakening him.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Strength/Relative%20Strength/Miscellaneous/Blaze

Blaze would show to be strong enough to make Black Adam her b!tch with one hand and to punk Shazam after he sucker-punched her.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Comparing/Blaze/Shazam%20Wielders

What has World War Hulk done to compare, buddy?

By the way, still waiting for you to message me your gamertag. mad

carver9
Originally posted by Delta1938
Carver, before the Kryptonite-X power-up, Superman restrained Blaze in a dimension that was weakening him.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Strength/Relative%20Strength/Miscellaneous/Blaze

Blaze would show to be strong enough to make Black Adam her b!tch with one hand and to punk Shazam after he sucker-punched her.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Comparing/Blaze/Shazam%20Wielders

What has World War Hulk done to compare, buddy?

By the way, still waiting for you to message me your gamertag. mad

thumb up good to have you back in the debating game. I will send my gamer tag in a message. I will also respond to this in a few.

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
thumb up good to have you back in the debating game. I will send my gamer tag in a message. I will also respond to this in a few.

And it only took a month after you said you'd send it!! big grin

Delta1938
Originally posted by Delta1938
Carver, before the Kryptonite-X power-up, Superman restrained Blaze in a dimension that was weakening him.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Strength/Relative%20Strength/Miscellaneous/Blaze

Blaze would show to be strong enough to make Black Adam her b!tch with one hand and to punk Shazam after he sucker-punched her.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Comparing/Blaze/Shazam%20Wielders

What has World War Hulk done to compare, buddy?

By the way, still waiting for you to message me your gamertag. mad

miffed Still waiting for both Carter. mad

Firefly218
Doomsday could probably defeat the hulk. their strength measures up pretty well, however doomsday is smarter and more skilled, also he took down superman.

Odekahn
HP DD would win. This is a lopsided battle imo.

SquallX
Originally posted by Firefly218
Doomsday could probably defeat the hulk. their strength measures up pretty well, however doomsday is smarter and more skilled, also he took down superman.

Doomsday is not smarter.

carver9
Originally posted by Odekahn
HP DD would win. This is a lopsided battle imo.

No it isn't and Hulk wins.

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
No it isn't and Hulk wins.

mad You ignore my question that I brought up again and I still have not received the PM?

80sBaby
Doomsday wins more often than not, imo.

Odekahn
Originally posted by carver9
ABHI...look at what Quan is asking.

CARVER...look at what Delta is asking.

carver9
Originally posted by Delta1938
mad You ignore my question that I brought up again and I still have not received the PM?

laughing out loud

I keep forgetting. I get carried away at debating and then, majority of the time, I'm at work, debating from my phone.

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
laughing out loud

I keep forgetting. I get carried away at debating and then, majority of the time, I'm at work, debating from my phone.

Being too busy to answer my question is one thing, but you can't PM me your gamertag? It's time to track you down and kick you in the groin!! mad mad mad mad mad mad mad mad mad

carver9
Originally posted by Delta1938
Being too busy to answer my question is one thing, but you can't PM me your gamertag? It's time to track you down and kick you in the groin!! mad mad mad mad mad mad mad mad mad


Hahahahahaha... laughing out loud

Out of all the places to kick me at, why there. My gamer tag is "FEAR ME" but I have a lot of E's in it...I need to count them and give you my gamer tag the way it is written.

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
Hahahahahaha... laughing out loud

Out of all the places to kick me at, why there.

'Cuz I'm good at making men cry via groin kick.

Originally posted by carver9
My gamer tag is "FEAR ME" but I have a lot of E's in it...I need to count them and give you my gamer tag the way it is written.

And by the time you get around it, I'm sure the Xbox Seven will be out.

Odekahn
I like the part where carver still avoids the question lol

DTM
Most powerful Doomsday vs. WWHulk?? Really? DD wins Solidly. HP DD was taking on Superman, Orion and Jonn together, and they could only hold him for a few minutes, WWHulk I wouldnt even say could beat Superman alone.

jitay
Originally posted by DTM
Most powerful Doomsday vs. WWHulk?? Really? WWH wins Solidly. Though HP DD was taking on Superman, Orion and Jonn together and they could only hold him for a few minutes, I don't see how he could win this. WWHulk I would say without a doubt could Stomp Superman alone.
Fixed

DTM
Uh, no, not even remotely close. Comic instances support what Ive posted over your clever alteration. smile

jitay
You know this cos

DTM
Cos I actually read the comics and can compare characters therein pretty solidly.

This isnt a Marvel or DC thing, I collect both for going on 25 years now. The proof of both characters strongly supports HP DD over WWHulk.

Besides, quanchi voted for WWH, so you KNOW that DD wins this now. smile

Mindset
Originally posted by carver9
Hahahahahaha... laughing out loud

Out of all the places to kick me at, why there. My gamer tag is "FEAR ME" but I have a lot of E's in it...I need to count them and give you my gamer tag the way it is written. Carver, you are amazing.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Odekahn
I like the part where carver still avoids the question lol

But Carver's busy and keeps forgetting!! Just like several other questions I've asked him before, and Rao's in-depth analysis and comparison showing WWH isn't leagues beyond previous Hulks(and in fact weaker than several) and is really rather overrated..

Odekahn
Originally posted by Delta1938
But Carver's busy and keeps forgetting!! Just like several other questions I've asked him before, and Rao's in-depth analysis and comparison showing WWH isn't leagues beyond previous Hulks(and in fact weaker than several) and is really rather overrated..

He's responded since, so he's had time to make a post. If he has reasons for his position he could have stated them in the time it took him to write that paragraph about his gamer tag. If he doesn't have any reasons off the top of his head for saying Hulk can win, then it just shows he's answering out of bias.

deathlife
Ummm...did anyone see the Infinity #6 preview?

It shows the Hulk diving at Thanos and Thanos casually punching him off the page.

It's up at Newsarama.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Odekahn
He's responded since, so he's had time to make a post. If he has reasons for his position he could have stated them in the time it took him to write that paragraph about his gamer tag. If he doesn't have any reasons off the top of his head for saying Hulk can win, then it just shows he's answering out of bias.


PSSSST-- (whispers) I was actually picking on hm for avoiding questions. Also, he still hasn't sent me a friend request. mad

carver9
What question did I avoid?

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by DTM
Cos I actually read the comics and can compare characters therein pretty solidly.

This isnt a Marvel or DC thing, I collect both for going on 25 years now. The proof of both characters strongly supports HP DD over WWHulk.

Besides, quanchi voted for WWH, so you KNOW that DD wins this now. smile


thumb up

carver9
Originally posted by deathlife
Ummm...did anyone see the Infinity #6 preview?

It shows the Hulk diving at Thanos and Thanos casually punching him off the page.

It's up at Newsarama.

Why wouldn't Thanos be able to punch Hulk off of him?

Odekahn
Originally posted by carver9
What question did I avoid?

My question in the other thread asking you to post that scan of Hulk regrowing his head.

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
What question did I avoid?

My question of if WWH did anything along the lines of the scans I showed for Superman. On the Silver Surfer VS Darkseid topic, you dodged me asking if you really think Surfer's performance was a valid one and not bad writing considering all the examples I showed of Surfer getting overwhelmed/owned by those on-par or weaker than Orion, as well as pointing-out how earlier before the Surer/Orion fight, Surfer was getting owned by Parademons(unless you think a powerless, amnesic Superman>>>Silver Surfer>>Orion). Rao's analysis comparing different versions of Hulk to WWH/WBH. I'm sure other stuff I can't think of right now.

And I'm still waiting for that friend request. miffed

carver9
I'm basing this off fts. Hulk is stronger, faster, and has high end durability along with a high end healing factor. The thing about this is, Doomsday punching Hulk will do nothing more than increase everything I've mentioned about hulk.

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
I'm basing this off fts. Hulk is stronger, faster, and has high end durability along with a high end healing factor. The thing about this is, Doomsday punching Hulk will do nothing more than increase everything I've mentioned about hulk.

If you're talking straight-up feats and ignore fights, then yes, Hulk is far stronger than Doomsday, I wouldn't say more durable though. But if you go purely by feats, Kurse and Mangog are nothing compared to Thor, yet their fights wouldn't show that. If you go purely by straight-up feats, I can think of Mid-Tiers and even Street Level characters stronger than Orion. And you're still dodging my question.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Carver, before the Kryptonite-X power-up, Superman restrained Blaze in a dimension that was weakening him.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Strength/Relative%20Strength/Miscellaneous/Blaze

Blaze would show to be strong enough to make Black Adam her b!tch with one hand and to punk Shazam after he sucker-punched her.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Comparing/Blaze/Shazam%20Wielders

What has World War Hulk done to compare, buddy?

By the way, still waiting for you to message me your gamertag. mad

carver9
Originally posted by Delta1938
If you're talking straight-up feats and ignore fights, then yes, Hulk is far stronger than Doomsday, I wouldn't say more durable though. But if you go purely by feats, Kurse and Mangog are nothing compared to Thor, yet their fights wouldn't show that. If you go purely by straight-up feats, I can think of Mid-Tiers and even Street Level characters stronger than Orion. And you're still dodging my question.

Not just lifting...his punching fts as well. Don't know why you keep bringing up those scans. That's like me bringing Hulk stalemating Galaxy master and using that ft to help support Juggernaut since he has went h2h with Hulk.

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
Not just lifting...his punching fts as well. Don't know why you keep bringing up those scans. That's like me bringing Hulk stalemating Galaxy master and using that ft to help support Juggernaut since he has went h2h with Hulk.

Quit playing dumb and answer the question. I'm bringing those scans up because Blaze was Above Top-Tier, and Superman was still restraining her despite the dimension was sapping his powers. A Superman who was less powerful than the one Doomsday showed to be superior to in HUNTER/PREY. Now, what has World War Hulk done on the level of what Superman did in those scans?

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
I'm basing this off fts. Hulk is stronger, faster, and has high end durability along with a high end healing factor. The thing about this is, Doomsday punching Hulk will do nothing more than increase everything I've mentioned about hulk.

You're flat out lying.

Just admit you want Hulk to win and will disregard feats to do it. Come on. I'll be waiting.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by carver9
I'm basing this off fts. Hulk is stronger, faster, and has high end durability along with a high end healing factor. The thing about this is, Doomsday punching Hulk will do nothing more than increase everything I've mentioned about hulk.

Doomsday has all that x 2 at least, plus that he can somehow poison his enemy and cancel energy based beings or chronal manipulation

oh did I mention that DD also has dynamic strength? so the only one getting stronger will be Hulk?

Odekahn
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Doomsday has all that x 2 at least, plus that he can somehow poison his enemy and cancel energy based beings or chronal manipulation

oh did I mention that DD also has dynamic strength? so the only one getting stronger will be Hulk?

Not to mention, Hulk does have a limit to his strength, because at some point he would end up going World Breaker, but since WBH and WWH are considered two separate entities, WBH isn't legal here.

The Sorrow
Originally posted by Odekahn
Not to mention, Hulk does have a limit to his strength, because at some point he would end up going World Breaker, but since WBH and WWH are considered two separate entities, WBH isn't legal here.
At least you acknowledge that WW Hulk needs to be neutered, in order for Doomsday to stand a chance thumb up

-Pr-
WWH isn't being neutered. He's just being used as WWH, not WBH. there's a difference.

Odekahn
Originally posted by The Sorrow
At least you acknowledge that WW Hulk needs to be neutered, in order for Doomsday to stand a chance thumb up

Why don't you visit the Hulk vs Superman with no Super Speed thread if you're wanting to point out a handicap.

thumb up @ Pr

The Sorrow
Originally posted by -Pr-
WWH isn't being neutered. He's just being used as WWH, not WBH. there's a difference.
WB was the extension of Hulk's power in that arc so how is he not?
Whoever came up with the ruling created the "difference" because it definitely didn't happen in any comicbook.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Why don't you visit the Hulk vs Superman with no Super Speed thread if you're wanting to point out a handicap.

thumb up @ Pr
Probably because anyone with eyes can see in the title of the thread that one of the contestants is handicapped.

Odekahn
Originally posted by The Sorrow
Probably because anyone with eyes can see in the title of the thread that one of the contestants is handicapped.

That's not what I'm talking about though. You said I was admitting DD needs a handicap (which this isn't one) to beat Hulk, yet you aren't complaining that Hulk needs a handicap to beat Superman in the other thread.

The Sorrow
Originally posted by Odekahn
That's not what I'm talking about though. You said I was admitting DD needs a handicap (which this isn't one) to beat Hulk, yet you aren't complaining that Hulk needs a handicap to beat Superman in the other thread.
What do the two threads have to do with each other?

Odekahn
Originally posted by The Sorrow
What do the two threads have to do with each other?

Irony.

The Sorrow
Originally posted by Odekahn
Irony.
So nothing then. Ok glad we cleared that up thumb up

Odekahn
Originally posted by The Sorrow
So nothing then. Ok glad we cleared that up thumb up

Smdh. Sorry, I thought it was painfully obvious but I will spell it out for you.

Since you came to this thread pointing out a handicap that isn't even there, I was directing you to a real handicap thread so you could complain there instead. It's ironic to me that you would say DD needs Hulk to be handicapped to stand a chance, yet aren't pointing out that Hulk needs Superman to be handicapped is quite telling of your bias.

carver9
Crazy thing about this is, WBH, was in the WWH arc. Its not like he made appearance after the arc.

carver9
Originally posted by Odekahn
Not to mention, Hulk does have a limit to his strength, because at some point he would end up going World Breaker, but since WBH and WWH are considered two separate entities, WBH isn't legal here.

He doesn't have a limit to his strength...Doomsday does though.

Delta1938
Sorrow, there was something pretty specific that triggered WBH to come about. Tell me the odds of WWH turning into WBH while facing Doomsday? He didn't randomly go WB mode just because he was in a fight.

Originally posted by carver9
He doesn't have a limit to his strength...Doomsday does though.

Based on what? And still waiting for you to reply to this--

Originally posted by Delta1938
Quit playing dumb and answer the question. I'm bringing those scans up because Blaze was Above Top-Tier, and Superman was still restraining her despite the dimension was sapping his powers. A Superman who was less powerful than the one Doomsday showed to be superior to in HUNTER/PREY. Now, what has World War Hulk done on the level of what Superman did in those scans?

You and I both know why you're avoiding it.

Odekahn
Originally posted by carver9
He doesn't have a limit to his strength.

Within the confines of the thread barriers, he does.

-Pr-
Originally posted by The Sorrow
WB was the extension of Hulk's power in that arc so how is he not?
Whoever came up with the ruling created the "difference" because it definitely didn't happen in any comicbook.


Probably because anyone with eyes can see in the title of the thread that one of the contestants is handicapped.

We use it to differentiate between power levels. Hulk has had classifications before, this is just another one to promote fair debate.

Originally posted by carver9
Crazy thing about this is, WBH, was in the WWH arc. Its not like he made appearance after the arc.

No we didnt.

Originally posted by carver9
He doesn't have a limit to his strength...Doomsday does though.

Prove it.

janus77
Originally posted by -Pr-
No we didnt.



Prove it.
Carver's correct. "WBH" was Green Scar all along. From Planet Hulk to World War Hulk and on, Green Scar could - at any moment - have done the things that he did during HOTM.

It's just that he held back. Something that wouldn't be a consideration in normal forum fights.

The comics do not show any distinction between "WBH" and "WWH" in terms of character, mentality, powers or anything, merely in context.

All through WWH, Green Scar was mindful of the frailty of others, he pulled _all_ his punches, never beat anyone beyond their capacity to heal and basically avoided all collateral damage.

Once in the Dark Dimension, he made sure that there was no chance of endangering innocents and then he started to let lose.

The character remained the same, read the comics, you'll see.

carver9
What I am saying is...when people say WWH, per the rules, we can only use the Hulk during that arc. What people are forgetting is, even if we use the Hulk during the World War Hulk arc...he did THIS during that arc which contradict the fact of us not being able to use WBH.

http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/wwh033.jpg.html
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/wwh034.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/wwh035.jpg

It doesn't matter to me, I think Savage Hulk and WWH is enough to beat Doomsday. In regards to WWH, Pak made it clear that he doesn't think anyone short of Galactus could stop him.

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
What I am saying is...when people say WWH, per the rules, we can only use the Hulk during that arc. What people are forgetting is, even if we use the Hulk during the World War Hulk arc...he did THIS during that arc which contradict the fact of us not being able to use WBH.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/wwh034.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/wwh035.jpg

It doesn't matter to me, I think Savage Hulk and WWH is enough to beat Doomsday. In regards to WWH, Pak made it clear that he doesn't think anyone short of Galactus could stop him.

What you and Janus are missing is that there was a trigger that caused Hulk to do that. Who's going to step-up and tell why Hulk will be triggered like that fighting against a stranger like Doomsday.

By the way Carter, still waiting.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Carver, before the Kryptonite-X power-up, Superman restrained Blaze in a dimension that was weakening him.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Strength/Relative%20Strength/Miscellaneous/Blaze

Blaze would show to be strong enough to make Black Adam her b!tch with one hand and to punk Shazam after he sucker-punched her.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Comparing/Blaze/Shazam%20Wielders

What has World War Hulk done to compare, buddy?

By the way, still waiting for you to message me your gamertag. mad

Still waiting for that friend request, too. But if your debating "skills" are a reflection of your ability to play online, I don't want you on my team. stick out tongue

janus77
Originally posted by Delta1938
What you and Janus are missing is that there was a trigger that caused Hulk to do that. Who's going to step-up and tell why Hulk will be triggered like that fighting against a stranger like Doomsday.
What "trigger"? you mean like deciding it is necessary to put a little more force into a blow? Hulk beat up 1000x amped Wendigo & Bi-Beast, he just upped the amount of force he displayed.

He instantly went "WBH" several times, whilst on Earth, but kept the power output from destroying the planet.

There is no trigger necessary, just read the comics, he is that powerful if he wants to be (and most likely, far more powerful if he ever needs to be).

This is the same Hulk who held a planet together, whose power stores whilst at "WBH" levels during the closing of WWH, were siphoned off by the Intelligencia, and then used to empower an _army_ of Rulk level beings, to boost dozens of heroes into Thor like strength-levels (SpiderHulk and Thulk could actually have a fight, without one of them being splattered instantly)...

The only distinction is one of convenience and it has no comic-based validity.

Delta1938
Originally posted by janus77
What "trigger"? you mean like deciding it is necessary to put a little more force into a blow? Hulk beat up 1000x amped Wendigo & Bi-Beast, he just upped the amount of force he displayed.

He instantly went "WBH" several times, whilst on Earth, but kept the power output from destroying the planet.

There is no trigger necessary, just read the comics, he is that powerful if he wants to be (and most likely, far more powerful if he ever needs to be).

This is the same Hulk who held a planet together, whose power stores whilst at "WBH" levels during the closing of WWH, were siphoned off by the Intelligencia, and then used to empower an _army_ of Rulk level beings, to boost dozens of heroes into Thor like strength-levels (SpiderHulk and Thulk could actually have a fight, without one of them being splattered instantly)...

The only distinction is one of convenience and it has no comic-based validity.

I'm referring to what happened before Carter's scans. After Rick was nearly killed, finding-out Miek I think it was had been responsible.

janus77
Originally posted by Delta1938
I'm referring to what happened before Carter's scans. After Rick was nearly killed, finding-out Miek I think it was had been responsible.
And there have been many instances since, as well as his feat of holding Sakaar together, that demonstrate that he can amp it up instantly, when really necessary.

There is no need for some sort of plot-contrivance to bring about higher end power displays, he can do that naturally. "WBH" is just the label attached to those displays so it follows that he was always "WBH capable".

Delta1938
Originally posted by janus77
And there have been many instances since, as well as his feat of holding Sakaar together, that demonstrate that he can amp it up instantly, when really necessary.

There is no need for some sort of plot-contrivance to bring about higher end power displays, he can do that naturally. "WBH" is just the label attached to those displays so it follows that he was always "WBH capable".

So, you're just repeating yourself?

janus77
Originally posted by Delta1938
So, you're just repeating yourself?
Hope it helps wink


No, I'm just saying that you are wrong to assert that the circumstances are relevant when it comes to "WBH".

There is no need for a "trigger", Doomsday will be dead before Hulk has to amp. And if not, then the annoyance of Doomsday will be enough to convince Hulk to step it up a little.

Either way, no need for some special "trigger".

Delta1938
Originally posted by janus77
Hope it helps wink


No, I'm just saying that you are wrong to assert that the circumstances are relevant when it comes to "WBH".

There is no need for a "trigger", Doomsday will be dead before Hulk has to amp. And if not, then the annoyance of Doomsday will be enough to convince Hulk to step it up a little.

Either way, no need for some special "trigger".

You're simply repeating something that comes down to "there's no trigger 'cuz I said so." You may be correct that there's no trigger, but your argument has come off as nothing but because you say there's no need to.

And.....you think Hulk will kill Doomsday before getting to WB level. El. Oh. El. Superman was more powerful than in their first encounter, and Doomsday's superiority over him was greater. But hey, if Doomsday survived Entropy, regardless of how brief it was, then nothing WB Hulk can do will scratch him, and since Doomsday has already adapted to energy beings and was shown to immediately adapt to time being frozen around him, he'll simply adapt a way to feed on Hulk's energy while disrupting his powers. Fun to make arguments like this, huh?

-Pr-
Originally posted by janus77
Carver's correct. "WBH" was Green Scar all along. From Planet Hulk to World War Hulk and on, Green Scar could - at any moment - have done the things that he did during HOTM.

It's just that he held back. Something that wouldn't be a consideration in normal forum fights.

The comics do not show any distinction between "WBH" and "WWH" in terms of character, mentality, powers or anything, merely in context.

All through WWH, Green Scar was mindful of the frailty of others, he pulled _all_ his punches, never beat anyone beyond their capacity to heal and basically avoided all collateral damage.

Once in the Dark Dimension, he made sure that there was no chance of endangering innocents and then he started to let lose.

The character remained the same, read the comics, you'll see.

I have read them. So has bada. We both disagree.

janus77
Certainly it seems quite puzzling that both Planet Hulk and WWH clearly state that he is the "World Breaker" and all through WWH the writer makes it perfectly clear that he is holding back by choice.

I don't see anything in the comics supporting the distinction, I accept that you have one for KMC Vs forums, but Carver is correct, as far as I can see.

carver9
Lol...people tend to forget that a fraction of WWH power before even going World Breaker empowered a group of people to Herald+ statuses. Crazy thing about it is, one of the individuals that received the amp was knocking out skyfathers...hell, he killed a skyfather and again, he only received a fraction of Hulks power. This doesn't include Hulks inside withstanding a 100+ Hercs. Hulk piss on Herald levels...hell, a small dose of his power creates Heralds and trans tier characters. Now I see why Pak said the things he said about WWH. Doomsday gets ripped in half.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by -Pr-
I have read them. So has bada. We both disagree. you guys are wrong, tho

-Pr-
Wrong about what? Classifying them?

You guys really want us to just ban guys like Hulk, Flash, Thor and Superman from the forum? Because that's what happens if we remove classifications like this.

Stoic
Originally posted by -Pr-
I have read them. So has bada. We both disagree.

Really? Because the armor that he wore was from Sakaar. You sure you didn't see any kind of resemblance between the two? WW Hulk, and WB Hulk are the very same character. They even referred to him as being the World Breaker when he was on Sakaar. You and Bada are incorrect.

carver9
Honestly, don't know why we ars fussing about this. What's done is done. I don't see anything wrong with splitting the two, tbh. Lets not pretend like WWH isn't powerful. I just think that Greenscar aka WWH fts extended outside of his run against the hero's, that's all. Consistently using WBH as an argument would take away from his other personas. What fun would it be using the best Hulk (WWH) and every time he's on the losing end, someone switch the argument to WBH. There should be a seperation bc overall, its better. That's just my two cents on it...and the rule has been put into play anyways, so why argue against it?

-Pr-
Originally posted by Stoic
Really? Because the armor that he wore was from Sakaar. You sure you didn't see any kind of resemblance between the two? WW Hulk, and WB Hulk are the very same character. They even referred to him as being the World Breaker when he was on Sakaar. You and Bada are incorrect.

You're not listening, or you're not reading the rulings we put in place.

We separate them for the purposes of the debate. Same way we separate several other characters for the purposes of debate.

We do that, because otherwise threads would become redundant.

What's the problem? Where did we say they aren't the same character?

janus77
Originally posted by -Pr-
Wrong about what? Classifying them?

You guys really want us to just ban guys like Hulk, Flash, Thor and Superman from the forum? Because that's what happens if we remove classifications like this.
I think it's more a case of being accurate about the meaning of the classification, in this case.

There is a KMC VS position and there is a comic-book fact.

KMC VS-wise, you wish to have a short-hand for a limited, modest Hulk that can be used in fights, because without it there really is no point to 80% of the threads with him. He'd simply snap his fingers and obliterate the opposition. As such you choose to use "WWH" as the term.

That's what you seem to mean, when you go into the matter.

What you've stated though, is factually erroneous and will always cause problems because of it. You state that Hulk was indeed in the limited and modest capacity that you call "WWH", during the events of WWH.

Marvel states otherwise, presenting instead a character who on Sakaar is continually called "The World Breaker" and Green Scar. Who demonstrates power enough to hold together a world threatening to explode (both literally and figuratively, that was his role on Sakaar) and who is often feared not for the power he displays but for the power that lies within him.

At no point do they delineate the "WBH" 'character' from the Green Scar. In fact, they take great pains to drive home the message that he could destroy the planet if he wanted to, that he was keeping it all in check, holding it all back.

Without any basis for the supposition that "WBH" was a separate character/externally-amped-character from Green Scar, there is no grounds to assert that "WWH" (the KMC VS character) is at all any different from the "WBH" character.

Neither identity exists in the comics, the latter only exists as an appellation given to Green Scar and a sign of the power that he wields. Whilst the former is a misnomer because WWH is the name of an arc, featuring the Green Scar iteration of Hulk.

At no time, whilst on Earth, does he receive any power-ups/power-downs or have any mental obstacles to his powers removed/added. His body and mind remain within the normal parameters of a single coherent character that he has been since first landing on Sakaar.

So, there's nothing that has been added or changed to Green Scar, that makes any difference when it comes to his capacity to be "WBH" mode.

What would be better - at least more accurate and clear about intent - is to state that "WWH" (a character existing purely in the KMC VS forum only), is not a separate character but the same Green Scar operating within parameters derived from a range of feats, taken from the beginning of the WWH arc to just after he defeats Sentry but before he starts to lose control and go World Breaker on Earth.

With that, you would effectively have a Hulk who could reasonably tussle with Thor (though WWH would win every time) and other heralds and monsters that make up the usual KMC VS fare.

-Pr-
Where did I say that when I wasn't alluding to our ruling?

janus77
Originally posted by -Pr-
Where did I say that when I wasn't alluding to our ruling?
Carver was talking about Hulk during the WWH arc, having "WBH" powers.

You asserted otherwise, but weren't clear whether you were referring to the KMC VS made "WWH" or the Hulk of World War Hulk arc, which Carver was talking about.

I replied that Carver was correct and that indeed there was no "WWH" but merely a Green Scar who was always holding back. That "WBH" was merely another name for him, signalling the threat and power he represented.

Later you seemed to assert that WWH was a classification of convenience (the KMC VS character that I mention in my last post) but again, it's not clear whether that was your intent or not.

-Pr-
Originally posted by janus77
Carver was talking about Hulk during the WWH arc, having "WBH" powers.

You asserted otherwise, but weren't clear whether you were referring to the KMC VS made "WWH" or the Hulk of World War Hulk arc, which Carver was talking about.

I replied that Carver was correct and that indeed there was no "WWH" but merely a Green Scar who was always holding back. That "WBH" was merely another name for him, signalling the threat and power he represented.

Later you seemed to assert that WWH was a classification of convenience (the KMC VS character that I mention in my last post) but again, it's not clear whether that was your intent or not.

Oh, at first, I was disagreeing with Carver, because no, I believe there's a clear distinction in power between Hulk at the levels we saw him at in WWH, and what came after (and what was hinted at near the end of the arc).

That's completely separate from any ruling made on the character though, which was done months ago and seems to have been ignored by everyone.

I don't necessarily agree with all of what you wrote on the previous page, but that doesn't really matter, as I'm speaking now about how they're treated. Terms like WWH, WBH, Savage etc, are terms based on the power depictions of a character during an arc, not the character themselves on some deeper level.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by -Pr-
Wrong about what? Classifying them?

You guys really want us to just ban guys like Hulk, Flash, Thor and Superman from the forum? Because that's what happens if we remove classifications like this. again: with hulk it's false dichotomy when trying to separate "WBH" from "WWH".

abriged version: people of sakaar have a legend about a savior and long story short within that 1st arc hulk is named both "green scar" and "worldbreaker", there he gains the totality of the power he ever shows in the next several arc. then wwh (part 2) occurs and people start losing their small minds calling him "WWH" and other dumb shit.

look, you can't paint hulk with the same brush as the sentry or something. everything hulk would even exhibit powerwise he gained from the warp core breach and even if you want to say his personality changed well he addressed that he was just holding back in manhattan and vegas, then goes on to unleash greater power after

janus77
Maybe a name other than "WWH" would help for flagging up the appearance of a Hulk limited to the feats of the WWH arc up until he began to go WBH.

WWH is easy to understand as shorthand for the Hulk that appeared in WWH, which ofcourse is Green Scar, the same Hulk as in Planet Hulk and post WWH in WWHs etc etc.

Maybe call "WWH" "Carver's Hulk"?

And you can label a non-limited Green Scar "The tears of The Houses of El and Odin" TTOTHOEAO or Theo for short, because you know that'd happen! yes

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
again: with hulk it's false dichotomy when trying to separate "WBH" from "WWH".

abriged version: people of sakaar have a legend about a savior and long story short within that 1st arc hulk is named both "green scar" and "worldbreaker", there he gains the totality of the power he ever shows in the next several arc. then wwh (part 2) occurs and people start losing their small minds calling him "WWH" and other dumb shit.

look, you can't paint hulk with the same brush as the sentry or something. everything hulk would even exhibit powerwise he gained from the warp core breach and even if you want to say his personality changed well he addressed that he was just holding back in manhattan and vegas, then goes on to unleash greater power after

I know all this. It's just not relevant to the ruling that was made. We're talking power levels. Why is that such an issue? You want to change the names or something?

Originally posted by janus77
Maybe a name other than "WWH" would help for flagging up the appearance of a Hulk limited to the feats of the WWH arc up until he began to go WBH.

WWH is easy to understand as shorthand for the Hulk that appeared in WWH, which ofcourse is Green Scar, the same Hulk as in Planet Hulk and post WWH in WWHs etc etc.

Maybe call "WWH" "Carver's Hulk"?

And you can label a non-limited Green Scar "The tears of The Houses of El and Odin" TTOTHOEAO or Theo for short, because you know that'd happen! yes

Look, i'm sorry if this seems blunt, but this isn't up for discussion.

We're not trying to alter the Hulk or anything like that. We're not trying to sully his good name. We're just trying to make sure that when people make threads, they know what Hulk they're going to be seeing. Separating power levels for the purposes of threads was deemed the best option, and "WWH" was chosen because it's the most common, well-known term that could be used for such a depiction. Same with WBH.

psycho gundam
"WWH" will hold back against a nearly mindless monster in a featureless battle arena devoid of bystanders when that was the sole reason he bluffed the war on earth in the first place........ it's not like when those factors were likewise removed as they are on kmc he shat on his opponents for the most part.

this whole thing is facepalm worthy

psycho gundam
Originally posted by -Pr-
I know all this. It's just not relevant to the ruling that was made. We're talking power levels. Why is that such an issue? You want to change the names or something? Look, i'm sorry if this seems blunt, but this isn't up for discussion.
he used as much power as was necessary to beat who he wanted to beat, doomsday + the scenario stands a good chance of making him at least glow

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
he used as much power as was necessary to beat who he wanted to beat, doomsday + the scenario stands a good chance of making him at least glow

So what do you want me to do, then?

What do you want changed about Hulk?

Instead of whining about how it's facepalm worthy, how about offering a suggestion.

ODG
^ It's evident what people want. Don't make statements like this: Originally posted by -Pr-
WWH isn't being neutered. The comic character as he is in the comics is being neutered in the forums. To promote this amorphous "fair debate" protocol. That's the prerogative of the mods. Just don't confuse people with statements that could easily be construed as utter misinterpretations of the comics.

-Pr-
Originally posted by ODG
^ It's evident what people want. Don't make statements like this: The comic character as he is in the comics is being neutered in the forums. To promote this amorphous "fair debate" protocol. That's the prerogative of the mods. Just don't confuse people with statements that could easily be construed as utter misinterpretations of the comics.

Enlighten me then, please.

They wouldn't be confused if they wouldn't jump the gun and would just be straightforward. Not rehashing the same ****ing argument from months ago would also help.

Rage.Of.Olympus
So what, is World Breaker Hulk being treated as separate from World War Hulk? If so, that would be incorrect. World Breaker is Green Scar. All of his feats are applicable for World War Hulk because it's literally the same being. Hulk had just gained incredible control of his strength and had such a high base, that even when calm he could access power noticeably greater then most elite herald strongmen. It's not rocket science.

This isn't like Superman taking a Sun Dip. It's like Superman dropping mental blocks and going all out.

-Pr-
Guys, the mods are going to be using separate classifications for the Hulk during the WWH arc, and the one that came after.

It's that simple.

if you want different names to be used? Fine, we'll consider it. They're still being kept separate though, and that isn't up for discussion.

janus77
WWH "is" the Hulk from WWH , but limited to the power-level displayed within the arc, up to and just before he began to lose control of himself and go "WBH".

WWH's power-levels are as inferred from the feats shown within the above referenced arc-period, and do not bear any relation to the implied, stated, previously or later demonstrated or otherwise inferable power-levels of the character "Green Scar" whose feats are the superset of those which represent "WWH".

ODG
Originally posted by -Pr-
Enlighten me then, please.

They wouldn't be confused if they wouldn't jump the gun and would just be straightforward. Not rehashing the same ****ing argument from months ago would also help. It's pretty clear what happened in this thread. A Doomsday supporter used your ruling to argue that WWH has a cap to his strength. Because he is not allowed to go Worldbreaker. The Hulk fan ended up backhandedly conceding this point but rubbed it in that Hulk was being neutered with this limitation since it does not exist in the comics.

Then you, the mod, ended up contradicting him and flatly stating WWH was not being neutered. But he is being neutered (for the purposes of discussion). You shouldn't have to defend your rulings incessantly. And in a perfect world, you never should at all. But saying stuff like that, even in an offhand manner, makes your mod ruling look misinformed -- as if you thought there were some comics-driven reason behind delineating between WWH and WBH. Which is why you've got several posters lecturing you about storyline details and acting like you haven't read the comics.

There is no reason in the comics to think that WWH can't go WBH when he needs or wants to. There is a reason in these forums to act that way though. That's the end of the story. No?

psycho gundam
Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, the mods are going to be using separate classifications for the Hulk during the WWH arc, and the one that came after.

It's that simple.

if you want different names to be used? Fine, we'll consider it. They're still being kept separate though, and that isn't up for discussion. it's not a big deal, just stop being illogical is all

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, the mods are going to be using separate classifications for the Hulk during the WWH arc, and the one that came after.

It's that simple.

if you want different names to be used? Fine, we'll consider it. They're still being kept separate though, and that isn't up for discussion.

I don't get it, so World Breaker feats can't be used for World War Hulk? Why?

Are you choosing to separate them by eras? Otherwise it's like saying Superman's feats while he's angry need to be separate from normal Superman. It's a nonsensical distinction using the character as explained.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So what, is World Breaker Hulk being treated as separate from World War Hulk? If so, that would be incorrect. World Breaker is Green Scar. All of his feats are applicable for World War Hulk because it's literally the same being. Hulk had just gained incredible control of his strength and had such a high base, that even when calm he could access power noticeably greater then most elite herald strongmen. It's not rocket science.

This isn't like Superman taking a Sun Dip. It's like Superman dropping mental blocks and going all out.


WHAT???!!!

This will be like Superman dropping his mental blocks

It is a character going all out, not holding back

janus77
Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, the mods are going to be using separate classifications for the Hulk during the WWH arc, and the one that came after.

It's that simple.

if you want different names to be used? Fine, we'll consider it. They're still being kept separate though, and that isn't up for discussion.
Pr, not being funny but there is a big (well, as far as comic book forums go) distinction to be made here.

Calling a character WWH != saying that character is Green Scar during the period of WWH.

Giving WWH all of Green Scar's feats during that period != being Green Scar during that period.

Green Scar was holding back (to staggering levels), during the whole arc, so in a VS fight, you would be perfectly fine to say "he'll just kick it up a notch".

"WWH" (as defined by KMC VS) just doesn't have that "notch" to kick it up to, he is neither as soft and gentle as the Green Scar that fought Caeira nor as powerful as the one that almost destroyed the Earth with a casual footstep.

He is, to all intents and purposes, a separate character from Hulk (though he is based on a set of Hulk's exploits).

That's the difference.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
WHAT???!!!

This will be like Superman dropping his mental blocks

It is a character going all out, not holding back

What? You aren't making sense.

Hulk didn't go all out and unleash his full strength because he was holding back (As explained). It's a different way of phrasing the same mechanism.

Rao Kal El
Also I wonder why none of you complaining about Superman not having super speed vs Hulk on the other thread.

That is even worse! Super speed is a power that Superman displays EVERY TIME not only when he reaches critical mass or stops holding back, but no one complained about this..

I wonder why...

janus77
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Also I wonder why none of you complaining about Superman not having super speed vs Hulk on the other thread.

That is even worse! Super speed is a power that Superman displays EVERY TIME not only when he reaches critical mass or stops holding back, but no one complained about this..

I wonder why...
Maybe because it was a thread titled "Hulk vs superman(no super speed)" - you make the thread, you set your criteria (however unfair).

And as for your intimation that Superman would otherwise have prevailed, well, a non-capped Hulk (like in the comics) would just turn Superman to dust by kicking up the power output.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What? You aren't making sense.

Hulk didn't go all out and unleash his full strength because he was holding back (As explained). It's a different way of phrasing the same mechanism.

Both characters are using their full potential with out tapping into external sources of energy

-Pr-
Originally posted by ODG
It's pretty clear what happened in this thread. A Doomsday supporter used your ruling to argue that WWH has a cap to his strength. Because he is not allowed to go Worldbreaker. The Hulk fan ended up backhandedly conceding this point but rubbed it in that Hulk was being neutered with this limitation since it does not exist in the comics.

Then you, the mod, ended up contradicting him and flatly stating WWH was not being neutered. But he is being neutered (for the purposes of discussion). You shouldn't have to defend your rulings incessantly. And in a perfect world, you never should at all. But saying stuff like that, even in an offhand manner, makes your mod ruling look misinformed -- as if you thought there were some comics-driven reason behind delineating between WWH and WBH. Which is why you've got several posters lecturing you about storyline details and acting like you haven't read the comics.

There is no reason in the comics to think that WWH can't go WBH when he needs or wants to. There is a reason in these forums to act that way though. That's the end of the story. No?

...That isn't what I asked. Not being snippy, I honestly was just asking what people actually want me to do.

I honestly don't believe he's being neutered. I get that people won't agree or will say I'm flat out wrong, but I really don't know how anything I said is supposed to contradict or overrule a mod ruling.

And just to be clear, it isn't MY ruling. It was something that Bada and I worked on, and it was something WE both agreed on. We've both spoken about WHY the ruling was made ie to keep debates easier.

Just because I happen to also believe that they are actually separate doesn't invalidate the mod ruling that doesn't actually have that as a condition.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
it's not a big deal, just stop being illogical is all

You're welcome to think it's illogical; I really don't mind.

The ruling was agreed upon months ago. It won't change unless some new evidence comes to light.

Originally posted by janus77
Pr, not being funny but there is a big (well, as far as comic book forums go) distinction to be made here.

Calling a character WWH != saying that character is Green Scar during the period of WWH.

Giving WWH all of Green Scar's feats during that period != being Green Scar during that period.

Green Scar was holding back (to staggering levels), during the whole arc, so in a VS fight, you would be perfectly fine to say "he'll just kick it up a notch".

"WWH" (as defined by KMC VS) just doesn't have that "notch" to kick it up to, he is neither as soft and gentle as the Green Scar that fought Caeira nor as powerful as the one that almost destroyed the Earth with a casual footstep.

He is, to all intents and purposes, a separate character from Hulk (though he is based on a set of Hulk's exploits).

That's the difference.

What are you actually getting at?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Both characters are using their full potential with out tapping into external sources of energy

..................

So you're repeating literally exactly what I said?

I feel like you didn't understand what I meant in my post.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by -Pr-
Just because I happen to also believe that they are actually separate doesn't invalidate the mod ruling that doesn't actually have that as a condition.



They aren't separate. They are literally the exact same being. World Breaker Hulk is World War Hulk, except angrier. He can go from Banner to World Breaker or from Banner to World War Hulk to World Breaker at the drop of a hat. It depends entirely on how much he is holding back.

I'm curious, what gave you the impression that they were separate? It doesn't make much sense to me personally.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by janus77
Maybe because it was a thread titled "Hulk vs superman(no super speed)" - you make the thread, you set your criteria (however unfair).

And as for your intimation that Superman would otherwise have prevailed, well, a non-capped Hulk (like in the comics) would just turn Superman to dust by kicking up the power output.

There was another thread where it was tittled Doomsday vs HOTM Hulk.

This one as unfair as it might seem is called Doomsday vs WWH and OP states:

Originally posted by swandivelmeistr
Title pretty much says it all. Most powerful version of canon Doomsday vs World War Hulk. Fight to the death. Who wins?

He is reffering to a particular HULK used in one arc.

Otherwise He can go and make a thread called HP Doomsday vs FULL POTENTIAL HULK, OR Hp Doomsday vs WBH.

And set his stipulations.

As much as I believe is dumb to have stips like this, because when in the world a character is going to fight in a world made of indestructible adamantuim is the way it has been in KMC for quite a long time.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
They aren't separate. They are literally the exact same being. World Breaker Hulk is World War Hulk, except angrier. He can go from Banner to World Breaker or from Banner to World War Hulk to World Breaker at the drop of a hat. It depends entirely on how much he is holding back.

I'm curious, what gave you the impression that they were separate? It doesn't make much sense to me personally.

At the time of reading it, I honestly felt like Banner wasn't able to reach that highs until the end of WWH. Up until then, I feel like he was operating at a level that was closer to Savage Hulk, and that was sort of the tipping point for him with the whole footsteps thing.

Let me say, though, that isn't why the ruling was made. It was made because people were going in to threads that were designed to have the Hulk operating at the level that he was during the arc and saying "He goes WBH/HOTM and wins" which is ultimately pointless and makes threads redundant.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
..................

So you're repeating literally exactly what I said?

I feel like you didn't understand what I meant in my post.

No I got it perfectly, Hulk goes critical mass and reaches "WB MODE" in which he has two gears, holding back and non holding back.

Superman drops his mental block and his thumb cracks imperex armor he kicks it up a notch and starts one shoting Imperex probes.

I got it perfectly, none of them are tapping into external sources of power and can go either WB MODE or No mental block any time they want.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Also I wonder why none of you complaining about Superman not having super speed vs Hulk on the other thread.

That is even worse! Super speed is a power that Superman displays EVERY TIME not only when he reaches critical mass or stops holding back, but no one complained about this..

I wonder why... you should maybe sit this one out

<< THERE IS MORE FROM THIS THREAD HERE >>