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How powerful does Post-Swtor Revan become? Try to compare him in full to the person his strength matches if you can.

I didn't get the last part.

He is either dead or completely the same 'post-swtor'.

Considering Revan goes apeshit insane during TOR after his release, it's unlikely he becomes anything but a crazy Force spirit at some point. In fact, the way in which he dies in the flashpoint indicates he's pulling a Kun.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Considering Revan goes apeshit insane during TOR after his release, it's unlikely he becomes anything but a crazy Force spirit at some point. In fact, the way in which he dies in the flashpoint indicates he's pulling a Kun.
Lol, people still think he died, not making fun of you, I'm just saying that I highly doubt that is the last we'll see of Revan.

Well he did die originally.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well he did die originally.

Wait, so disappearing into a glowing white light is dying? O.o

Come to think of it, did Revan ever appear as a Force Spirit? O-o

He didn't do that in the original game. He just flat out died. But people complained about Revan going out like such a chump in a mid-game raid with virtually no build up or pay off, so they made it ambiguous.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He didn't do that in the original game. He just flat out died. But people complained about Revan going out like such a chump in a mid-game raid with virtually no build up or pay off, so they made it ambiguous.

That's because KOTOR was amazing, people wanted to believe the Prodigal Knight Revan could overcome any obstacle, if he had more training, he could've
gone one-on-one with Vitiate. Plus, Revan is a fan favorite, much like Cloud from FF or Sora from KH. Revan's become the mascot of Star Wars nowadays.

The common belief is that Revan did the fold space technique.

Originally posted by psmith81992
The common belief is that Revan did the fold space technique.

^ This. And I think it was adjusted due to feedback. Beta groups went wild.

I was stoked when I heard that was the official explanation.

To what? Why they changed it or that he used fold space?

Both

Yeah they caved rather quickly to the pressure. Far better than ME3's dev team did.

I was one of the vocal ones for Revan's return. Talk about nerd rage..

Well, I thought it was good that he was mentally broken from his torture session. I'm indifferent to any continuing his story since he's no longer a likeable hero. His plans for genocide are pretty crooked.

I think Revan was pretty much fully realized. Oh sure, he could learn more techniques and polish what he has, just like anyone, but I don't think he's going to increase much more, just some inching forward.

Yeah, the idea that he 'had' potential was burnt up in his substandard novel, and then he became a plot device - a small one - in the TOR series which is much much bigger in scale and epicness than his storyline.

That's putting it mildly. The best SW works tend to be the ones that surround the film era. The farther out you go, the lamer shit tends to be.

I'll be honest, KotOR games and even TOR when it was fresh outstripped the PT movies by far. And sticking closer to G-canon, the Clone Wars novels, ranging from The Approaching Storm to Labyrinth are better as well.

Then you have stuff like NJO that's just rubbish.

I meant that the best SW worksread: EU surrounds the films. Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, Revenge of the Sith, Labyrinth of Evil, Cloak of Deception, Shatterpoint, etc. outstrip everything I've seen of the KOTOR-era minus the first KOTOR game.

And NJO had its moments. Destiny's Way, Star By Star, Traitor, and The Unifying Force are all excellent.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's putting it mildly. The best SW works tend to be the ones that surround the film era. The farther out you go, the lamer shit tends to be.

I disagree. Dark Horse's KotoR comic is one of the best SW series there is, and I dig their Knight Errant and Legacy too.


Plus, there's been some really wretched stuff not far from the movies. Crystal Star? Black Fleet Crisis?


The primary decider seems to be who makes it. Most of Dark Horse's comics are pretty good (not counting some of their early ones). Bioware is good. Obsidian is ok. Bantam books is hit-and-miss (hits: Thrawn trilogy, X-wing books), Del Rey tends to have a lot more misses with a few gems.

The KotOR comics are fine, Knight Errant is excellent, and Legacy is a big steaming pile of meh.

And obviously the movie era has its shit releases. But it also happens to have more good ones than any other.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I meant that the best SW worksread: EU surrounds the films. Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, Revenge of the Sith, Labyrinth of Evil, Cloak of Deception, Shatterpoint, etc. outstrip everything I've seen of the KOTOR-era minus the first KOTOR game.

And NJO had its moments. Destiny's Way, Star By Star, Traitor, and The Unifying Force are all excellent.

Actually, Revan is the exception really. The other books for TOR were pretty good. And even then it's not horrid bad bad; it just fails to justify the reputation KotOR II lumped on Revan, because Drew either didn't play the game or didn't agree with its conclusions.

And the Clone Wars cartoon was rubbish too. GL had his grubby mitts all over it, and it's a Johnny Bravo looking atrocity, with Yoda ragdolling entire armies and Jedi doing stupid things that defy established G-canon. Then you have Asoka the Godlike being, etc. etc.

I disagree that good material stems immediately off of G-canon; I accept that G-canon breeds the most immediate material but just as much is terrible. CW cartoon, TFU, etc. are abominations.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Actually, Revan is the exception really. The other books for TOR were pretty good. And even then it's not horrid bad bad; it just fails to justify the reputation KotOR II lumped on Revan, because Drew either didn't play the game or didn't agree with its conclusions.

None of them come close to rivaling the books I mentioned.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
And the Clone Wars cartoon was rubbish too. GL had his grubby mitts all over it, and it's a Johnny Bravo looking atrocity, with Yoda ragdolling entire armies and Jedi doing stupid things that defy established G-canon. Then you have Asoka the Godlike being, etc. etc.

The Clone Wars mini was all right, I don't have a particular attachment to it. But if a story is bad because its characters are wanked, there's a lot more to face the guillotine.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I disagree that good material stems immediately off of G-canon; I accept that G-canon breeds the most immediate material but just as much is terrible. CW cartoon, TFU, etc. are abominations.

Most of the good material stems immediately from G-canon because it's the most important and successful of all the Star Wars storylines. Naturally, the most talented authors tend to gravitate towards it.

Though again, it's conceded that it has its fair share of literary fecal matter.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

And obviously the movie era has its shit releases. But it also happens to have more good ones than any other.

Isn't that just because the stuff surrounding the movie still makes up, like, 70-80% of SW releases?


It's only relatively recently that the past has had stuff outside the Tales of the Jedi comic, that the future has had more than the immediate future a few years past the movies, and that the past has multiple well-developed time frames.



Also, the new Legacy comic is turning out pretty good. More likable main and better pacing than the first one.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Actually, Revan is the exception really. The other books for TOR were pretty good. And even then it's not horrid bad bad; it just fails to justify the reputation KotOR II lumped on Revan, because Drew either didn't play the game or didn't agree with its conclusions.

And the Clone Wars cartoon was rubbish too. GL had his grubby mitts all over it, and it's a Johnny Bravo looking atrocity, with Yoda ragdolling entire armies and Jedi doing stupid things that defy established G-canon. Then you have Asoka the Godlike being, etc. etc.

I disagree that good material stems immediately off of G-canon; I accept that G-canon breeds the most immediate material but just as much is terrible. CW cartoon, TFU, etc. are abominations.

Woah woah woah woah! Which CW cartoon? The Tartakovsky cartoon from 2003 was ****ing amazing, G-canon be damned. Its the new one thats shit on a piss sandwich.

Originally posted by Q99
Isn't that just because the stuff surrounding the movie still makes up, like, 70-80% of SW releases?


It's only relatively recently that the past has had stuff outside the Tales of the Jedi comic, that the future has had more than the immediate future a few years past the movies, and that the past has multiple well-developed time frames.



Also, the new Legacy comic is turning out pretty good. More likable main and better pacing than the first one.

^ This. G-canon also gets a lion's share of the EU. So naturally it is going to get a larger share of better authors. I'm sure if the same authors wrote TOR era books, they would probably you know, still be good. There's nothing inherently superior about G-canon, except for consistency.

No wait, that's a joke. There's no consistency.

Revan went fvcking nuts in TOR. I realized that entirely when he programmed HK to annihilate every being with Sith ancestry. Like, wtf Revan? WHAT ABOUT PRAVEN?!?!

Originally posted by Petrus
Revan went fvcking nuts in TOR. I realized that entirely when he programmed HK to annihilate every being with Sith ancestry. Like, wtf Revan? WHAT ABOUT PRAVEN?!?!

Yeah, but considering he was tortured and mindraped for years, this is rather light. At least he didn't go completely hurr hurr evil and try to kill everyone.

I think of it as this way; Revan may perhaps be more powerful after his recovery than he was before his capture, but his mind is cracked and he's a shadow of his former glory. I also think that his characterization is horrible given the persona KotOR I and II built up and the lackluster savant we see in his personal novel and then the crazy old dude in TOR. Wasted potential.

Damn ****ing straight. Revan was a genius who thought years ahead of everyone else and was unconventional and interesting. Drew turned him into the worst thing he could: Just another Jedi. He was bland and boring and he was an idiot.

Just like Bane, bro.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Damn ****ing straight. Revan was a genius who thought years ahead of everyone else and was unconventional and interesting. Drew turned him into the worst thing he could: Just another Jedi. He was bland and boring and he was an idiot.

Vene said it best when he likened Revan to Caesar or Alexander. Revan was a war hero, a charismatic leader, and a rebel movement figurehead. Drew turned him into a mechanic with Force powers.

His voice actor did a good job in TOR at least.

True. But everyone was an amateur next to the male SI.

I don't think he was that good, myself.

ERMAGERD TROLL.

I admit there were some others good too. I just don't recall which is which. I was surprised Nolan North's JC wasn't that good though, considering he is an established voice actor with a lot of credits to his name. It just felt very flat.

North's JC was so bad I restarted as female in under 15 minutes. He's just such a pompous nerd.

Yeah, Athena Karkanis is much better.

The most badass voice acting is BH. Followed by Warrior and Inq. The rest I've played are meh.

I think the sub-par VO, the generic hero storylines and the "hate it like rats" Coruscant missions pretty much make the Republic side dead to me.

I think Inquisitor is pretty good. He sounds like a manipulative genius as he should at least.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
How powerful does Post-Swtor Revan become? Try to compare him in full to the person his strength matches if you can.
Revan, in his prime, could handle whole armies and possibly dominate world(s) by himself with proper homework.

To answer the question of this thread:

Revan (along with Malak) was the most gifted Jedi of his era. I would imagine that a full potential Revan would be equal to Dooku.

But could you see Dooku no-selling Nyriss' lightning?

He reached his peak just like almost every Jedi but Anakin before he even was redeemed.

The rest was just Force powers and their effects. The boost of tapping into the light side, the dark side, etc that Luke, Jacen, etc experience when in states like Oneness, or the boost Malgus felt, etc. Or a temporary boost from tutanimis, or from Force drain, etc.

Yoda's ability to no-sell lightning with his bare hands was indicative of his own amazing power. Revan replicated the same feat shortly after being released from torture against someone whose lightning previously ashed someone and thus is stronger. Revan's raw power probably eclipses Yoda's if there's a direct
cocorrelation between the technique and power in the Force.

Different force users have different specialties. Horn was awesome at that technique but less powerful overall.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Yoda's ability to no-sell lightning with his bare hands was indicative of his own amazing power. Revan replicated the same feat shortly after being released from torture against someone whose lightning previously ashed someone and thus is stronger. Revan's raw power probably eclipses Yoda's if there's a direct
cocorrelation between the technique and power in the Force.

Are you saying Nyriss' lightning was more powerful than Sidious'?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Yoda's ability to no-sell lightning with his bare hands was indicative of his own amazing power. Revan replicated the same feat shortly after being released from torture

So did Luke for a fraction of a second in the RoTJ novelization.



Dooku was nearly RoTS Anakin and Vader's equal in raw Force power - like 90-95% of him I'd say.

Yoda often defeated Force users with TK alone (Book of Sith and TCW: Ambush) not to mention Obi-wan uses the Grand Master as the bar for Force sensitives (TPM) and Lucas claims he's this Uber Jedi (ESB: 30 years later documentary).

Every other Jedi that was Yoda's species (there were 2 of them: one in KoToR I and another featured in TPM era EU continuity) were among the top Masters; as they were Members Council - suggesting Force sensitivity as a trait common among that species.

Then there's CW to stack his TK abilities fairly to the exaggerations of the Force in general during KoToR/ToR - there's Starkiller II's feats and the implications of Yoda's far greater feats as he was within 90-95% of Sidious (RoTS). I doubt Revan's Force repel could go a fraction of the way Yoda's could, just the explosion of Sidious' Force lightning kills TK beast Starkiller.

Sidious himself turned traitors to ash in Darth Vader and the Ghost Prison part 5 - he insta-killed 24 Storm Troopers with it in the beginning of Dark Horse's Empire series. He disintegrated his Sith Spawn with it in Visionaries. He insta-killed hundreds of Ewoks with it in Empire At War: Forces of corruption.

There is no correlation between how fast or innately one can learn esoteric techniques and Force potential, Darth Plagueis affirms this much.

Plagueis also asserts the efficacy of development in such esoteric techniques is not exclusive, claiming Force talent is dependent on determination.

Force power is innate, but there are probably infinite are techniques within the Force that can effect power levels - Force Harmony, Dark Side Corruption (Nexus), lots of Hatred or lots of Compassion (limitless when you consider Oneness can be achieved through it), Tutaminus, Essence transfer, and all kinds of other ways to increase power level for a time.

'Power level' is merely how far one can go with an ability like Force push.

Gods no. But only because typing on this tablet takes forever and I don't want to fight off the legions without PC access and a whole bottle of no-doze.

Also, the direct comparison here is between Dooku and Nyriss, and Nyriss struck me as the better of the two in the lightning department.

Originally posted by Q99
Different force users have different specialties. Horn was awesome at that technique but less powerful overall.

Horn has a genetic issue which makes this the case so the comparison is moot.

Oneness, stop using novelizationsto ignore movie canon and buff your faves. It takes me a long time to post anything on this tablet so I'm being selective in my replies. Or just lazy.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Oneness, stop using novelizations

I'm not just going to use G Canon, I'm going to use everything unless you want to exclude EU material like the entire pre-Trilogy or post-trilogy continuity from the versus debates.

In that case I suggest you go into the Star Wars Trilogy Forum and make versus debates there.

If we exclude the novelizations, the whole thing breaks down, nothing makes any sense; why would every member of TOR's Jedi order be literally hundreds of thousands of times more powerful than everyone from the films if they were just a normal Jedi!?

Lol!

The novelizations even explain a lot of the victories in the films that otherwise make no sense.

Read the SW canon page on Wookiepedia, chock full of quotes from LFL. They don't agree with your decision to use lesser canon to contradict G-canon so why should we? It's just cherry picking on your part. You refuse to accept anything TOR related because it's not the movies or it stood you up at prom or something and then you use BS novelizations to further stack the deck in your favor.

Be consistent.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Gods no. But only because typing on this tablet takes forever and I don't want to fight off the legions without PC access and a whole bottle of no-doze.

Also, the direct comparison here is between Dooku and Nyriss, and Nyriss struck me as the better of the two in the lightning department.

Interesting. I have and would again say that Nyriss' lightning is at least comparable to Sidious'. Sidious' lightning has shown the ability to completely disintegrate a being, and so has Nyriss'. In fact, it does this even after breaking through a Force barrier, a superior feat on the surface.

This doesn't mean Nyriss is as powerful as Sidious. This is her charged lightning we are comparing to Sidious' lightning at base level. But the fact is that Revan still caught that charged lightning with minimal difficulty and threw it back at her. Yoda didn't manage that with Sidious'.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Read the SW canon page on Wookiepedia, chock full of quotes from LFL. They don't agree with your decision to use lesser canon to contradict G-canon so why should we? It's just cherry picking on your part. You refuse to accept anything TOR related because it's not the movies or it stood you up at prom or something and then you use BS novelizations to further stack the deck in your favor.

Wookieepedia says the novels are g canon - which is more than I can say for any TOR cinematic seen in game.

A different way something plays in the novelizations is still legally considered as canon material, that is probably because these differences don't affect the moral of the story.



The capabilities of Jedi in ToR are legitimately inconsistent with the abilities of the Jedi in the films.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Interesting. I have and would again say that Nyriss' lightning is at least comparable to Sidious'.

Sidious' may as have been above Vitiate's. There's zero evidence to the contrary.



Vitiate's hasn't shown to be capable of doing that, yet it is understood that it is a great deal stronger.



But can she kill hundreds of opponents from all directions within a 600 meter radius with standard Force lightning?

Originally posted by Oneness
Sidious' may as have been above Vitiate's. There's zero evidence to the contrary.

But it isn't.

Originally posted by Oneness
Vitiate's hasn't shown to be capable of doing that, yet it is understood that it is a great deal stronger.

Indeed, its said to be infinitely more powerful than hers.

Originally posted by Oneness
But can she kill hundreds of opponents from all directions within a 600 meter radius with standard Force lightning?

No. But neither can Sidious.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But it isn't.

And there is zero evidence to back that claim.



There are ToR sequences like busting through blast doors, and there's the Empire at War: Forces of Corruption Victory sequences where Sidious kills the Ewoks. It is a part of the game.

Originally posted by ares834
Originally posted by Oneness
So if you can do that for one game, and no other game or cartoon or anything, than that's not fair is it?

It's a double standard pure and simple.

Originally posted by Oneness
Wookieepedia says the novels are g canon - which is more than I can say for any TOR cinematic seen in game.

No, that's incorrect. It says elements within the novels that come directly from GL are G-canon and anything else is C-canon. In the event two G-canon depictions clash, the newer one is considered more valid per LFL. Trust me, I wish that wasn't always the case. Han will always shoot first otherwise.

Compare the release dates too - the novelization came out April 2005, while the movie came out in May. The movie is newer, even if you insist that the novel is absolutely 100% G-canon. Zonakin never appears.

Your anti-TOR crusade is something else entirely.



No again, this is blatantly contradicted by LFL. Read the entire page, don't just skim it to prove your bias. You were also wrong about the release date.



So is TFU, post-RotJ EU, CW cartoon and series, KotOR, TotJ, GAotS, and anything surrounding Bane and the Battle of Ruusan. In fact, the OT is inconsistent with the PT due to changes in film technology and director vision, as well as a new fight choreographer.

Consistency isn't a given. It is up to the fans to attempt to recouncile EU with movies. If you can't or won't do that, your next best option is to go to the movies only forums with other people who don't care or refuse to deal with EU issues.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
It's a double standard pure and simple.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=562050&pagenumber=4
wrong quote?

XiOFE8B5er8&start=116&end=119

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
But could you see Dooku no-selling Nyriss' lightning?

I've never seen Dooku use tutaminis at all, so probably not.

My mapping of Revan to Dooku is completely subjective, but here are my reasons:

1) Both are considered the best of their eras.
2) This keeps Anakin > Revan, which just feels right to me for some reason, even though I think Revan is a more interesting character (at least the KotOR version of him).

Originally posted by Oneness
And there is zero evidence to back that claim.

Vitiates lightning overpowered 4 of the most powerful Jedi in the Order at the same time 'easily.' Nyriss' lightning is comparable to Sidious' and yet Vitiates is stated to be infinitely more powerful than hers. So there is evidence actually.

Originally posted by Oneness
There are ToR sequences like busting through blast doors, and there's the Empire at War: Forces of Corruption Victory sequences where Sidious kills the Ewoks. It is a part of the game.

Did that canonically happen?

This dude has lost his ever loving mind.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiates lightning overpowered 4 of the most powerful Jedi in the Order at the same time 'easily.' Nyriss' lightning is comparable to Sidious' and yet Vitiates is stated to be infinitely more powerful than hers. So there is evidence actually.

You're wanking Nyriss just a bit. Accept that, or don't I don't care it's the truth.

When reflected the amped blast disintegrated her (never was it stated that she still had her shield up).

I'd put her Force lightning between Mother Talzin and Starkiller II based on what we have seen.



Did TOR canonically happen? NO

Game cinematics, no books.

^^^

Nyriss had her defenses up, when her own charged lightning got deflected back towards her.

She, after gathering her power, unleashed Sith lightning lethal enough to incinerate Force-users of lets say Dooku's caliber.

TOR is non-canon? So is this "canon according to Oneness" now? Whatever bogus outdated novelization or Empire at War cutscene (lmao) is more valid than a 200+ million dollar licensed LFL franchise that is explicitly C-canon?

I love how you rate canon as "whatever benefits my POV."

For our forum-wide amusement, why don't you list who is above the following according to you:

- Luke
- Anakin
- Sidious

I never understood the desire of some people to white knighting movie characters in an EU forum when they clearly don't like EU unless it involves the movie characters. Boggles the mind.

Forces of Corruption, the expansion, indeed only has one campaign. The original Empire At War has two and Sidious's massacre of the Bothans is part of the Imperial campaign.

Thank you.

I don't think Anakin is greater than Revan...respectfully.
Revan is more powerful...
I wouldn't put Dooku in the same category as Revan...respectfully...either
Revan still has Dooku beat with just TK and Tutminus...alone...

I think he can become more powerful...respectfully than the chosen one
and Yoda...imo he was....

imo I don't think Anakin or Yoda could last 5min against Vitiate...
And imo Vitiate is more powerful than Sids...Three centuries vs Palpatine's rule....
I'm going with the True Sith Emperor Vitiate...on this one.