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Who has Saesee Tiin defeated in Single Combat or Otherwise?

Sidious.No one. I think he lead a strike team that got pinned down by pirates, and he washimself a pilot, but that's it.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Sidious.No one. I think he lead a strike team that got pinned down by pirates, and he washimself a pilot, but that's it. Well... Damn He has never had the opportunity to really face anyone in Single Combat since he joined the Jedi Order??

If he did, I can't recall it. In the novels, he is relatively featless, but held in some regard. I didn't read all the comics and I don't watch the show, so I may have missed something.

In the comics, he's taken down droids.

This, btw, is why I don't take claims of him being one of the best duelists too seriously. He's not the Jedi that the Jedi sent to deal with enemy saber user, ever.

Wasn't he sent to capture Quinlan Vos?

Originally posted by ares834
Wasn't he sent to capture Quinlan Vos?

Oh yea, there was that. But it was a, "Vos, submit yourself to arrest," "Ok." type thing. I guess it did mean they trusted him to be strong enough if Vos refused, but that's more 'pretty good' duelist rather than 'best.'

Originally posted by Q99
This, btw, is why I don't take claims of him being one of the best duelists too seriously. He's not the Jedi that the Jedi sent to deal with enemy saber user, ever.

Obi-Wan pursues more lightsaber duelists than Yoda or Mace, doesn't mean he's a superior swordsman.

You're just upset that Sidious punked three of the best ever and is pretty much better than Krayt in all ways.

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Smeagol4-v2/accentuate/pwned-sidious.gif

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Obi-Wan pursues more lightsaber duelists than Yoda or Mace, doesn't mean he's a superior swordsman.

Still, makes him a better duelist than those with *no* duels to speak of under their belt

And Mace and Yoda's duels they do have show their power.




You do know I rate Krayt under Sids, right?

Krayt's only got an advantage on Sids in one area, medical/immortality force powers, and even those only once he's resurrected.


And heh, Tiin as one of the 'best ever'... I mean, punking Fisto is impressive! Kolar's not bad himself, if to a lesser extent.... Tiin... hehehehe.

> No. How many times have you plead with your opponents to consider generously the abilities of the Imperial Knights Krayt felled when he staged his coup? They had no feats to speak of but you expect us not to regard them as complete newbz. The difference here is that Tiin (unlike the Knights) is explicitly and consistently noted to not be a "weak feeb" (to borrow one of Kurupt Thanosi's expressions), but a "celebrated swordsman" who is, per Obi-Wan's estimation at least, one of the best ever.

You can dismiss the claim as coming from Obi-Wan, but to dismiss it as not being supported by feats is ridiculous. Remind me to club you over the head with the whole feat wars thing every time we discuss Legacy henceforth. Smiting you with your own tactic will be glorious. excellent



I know you recognize that Sidious is stronger, faster, more skilled, smarter, more successful, better looking, and a more talented lover than Krayt. I just brought that up to be petty because petty is fun.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/109989/grinch-smile-o.gif

What is it that indicates Tiin is that good? Is it just Kenobi's dumb opinion?

Originally posted by Nephthys
What is it that indicates TiinTulak Hord is that good? Is it just KenobiKhem Vhal's dumb opinion?

lmao

How effortless it is to spring my devious and cunning traps.

Da fuq? Thats so not a valid comparison. It isn't an opinion for Khem Val to say that Tulak Hord pulled a capital ship the size of the Endar Spire out the sky, its an account of what he's witnessed.

Kenobi's opinion about Tiin could easily be incorrect since Kenobi hasn't seen the vast, vat majority of swordsman in history. Thus saying Tiin ranks amongst the best isn't really a particularly compelling opinion. Plus Kenobi could just be overestimating his for various reasons.

Khem Val saying Tulak Hord pulled a capital ship out of the sky is very unlikely to be incorrect unless he's like, schizophrenic? You think he imagined it? The only thing that's vaguely opinion related it the comparison of size.

I'm actually surprised you'd say something so..... dumb.

Fun fact: Pretty sure Fisto and Tiin disagree. He was all, "Wish Kenobi was handling this..." And Tiin was all, "We'll make do! Stop your complaining!"


Also, Kenobi called the group some of the "Best ever." This does not mean *every one* of the group qualifies for that, but just that it's a way you could describe the group. The group, y'know, with Mace Windu and Kit Fisto. He's probably primarily be thinking of them.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Plus KenobiKhem Val could just be overestimating his for various reasons



My genius is without limit!



Fun fact: None of this (emphasis on none) contradicts Obi-Wan's opinion.



Fun fact: Actually, he refers to them as "four of the greatest swordsmen our order has ever produced." Four referring to all four.

Fun fact: you apparently didn't read the book.

Fun fact: Sidious pwns Krayt.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
My genius is without limit!

How can you overestimate someone pulling a ****ing capital ship out of the sky, you silly man?

You can't 'overestimate' pulling a capital ship out of the sky. You remember them doing it. So they did it. Opinion doesn't factor into that at all.

Jesus.

He could have been exaggerating to embellish the legend of a man he idolized.

Just imagine the grinch smirk here; I'm getting tired of posting it.

Pssht. Maybe he was averaging them out ^^

I'm still grinch smirking here, bro. All day every day.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
He could have been exaggerating to embellish the legend of a man he idolized.

Just imagine the grinch smirk here; I'm getting tired of posting it.

You're reaching bro. That still has nothing to do with opinion.

So you don't deny that is very possible for Kenobi to be full of shit then?

I'm reaching... the heights of genius and looking down at you intellectual ants from afar. You're pathetic.

Well no.

Originally posted by Q99
Pssht. Maybe he was averaging them out ^^

In The Cestus Deception, Kit Fisto is arguably beyond AotC Obi-Wan, and the two share a healthy respect for each other. And Mace's mastery is well known. I suspect the other two were just for filler, with the underlying assumption of "two more decent Jedi masters can't hurt".

Originally posted by The_Tempest
> No. How many times have you plead with your opponents to consider generously the abilities of the Imperial Knights Krayt felled when he staged his coup? They had no feats to speak of but you expect us not to regard them as complete newbz. The difference here is that Tiin (unlike the Knights) is explicitly and consistently noted to not be a "weak feeb" (to borrow one of Kurupt Thanosi's expressions), but a "celebrated swordsman" who is, per Obi-Wan's estimation at least, one of the best ever.

Honestly it seems like practically every PT-era Council member (and most PT-era Masters) is "one of the best ever." That term gets thrown around so often I don't know if it means much anymore.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
> I know you recognize that Sidious is stronger, faster, more skilled, smarter, more successful, better looking,

Okay... I know beauty is in the beholder's eye but still...

Originally posted by The_Tempest
> and a more talented lover than Krayt.

I think I'm about to be sick.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/37410711.jpg

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
In The Cestus Deception, Kit Fisto is arguably beyond AotC Obi-Wan, and the two share a healthy respect for each other. And Mace's mastery is well known. I suspect the other two were just for filler, with the underlying assumption of "two more decent Jedi masters can't hurt".

Yep, my thought as well.

And Tiin is physically strong. If you've got someone already known for their physical agility like Fisto, a more brute force guy can't hurt.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/37410711.jpg

Well, whatever makes you happy...

The misery of others, mostly.

http://www.oocities.org/the_emperor1981/pictures/faces/coyish_smile-boyish_charm.jpg

A suitably sith motive

Saesee Tiin definitely isn't fodder. Guy's got speed feats like moving so fast he appears to be in 3 places at once, strength feats like casually smashing droids with his bare hands (Mace Windu even hints that Saesee Tiin is physically stronger than him) and Force feats like outdoing Mace Windu in a contest of raw telekinetic power. Plus, you know, he's a super telepath.

As for skill, he's noted in the RotS novel as one of the greatest swordsmen ever produced in the Jedi Order's 25,000 year history, and holds up in a sparring match against Mace Windu.

What's more? Shaak Ti downright admits inferiority to all of the B-Team's members too. That includes Tiin.

Saesee Tiin doesn't need to have defeated anyone to be better than mooks like Quinlan Vos.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
As for skill, he's noted in the RotS novel as one of the greatest swordsmen ever produced in the Jedi Order's 25,000 year history, and holds up in a sparring match against Mace Windu.


It seems like everybody and their gran is "one of the greatest swordsmen ever produced in the Jedi Order's 25,000 year history."

*Yoda
*Mace Windu
*Agen Kolar
*Saesee Tiin
*Kit Fisto
*Dooku (while still a Jedi)
* Shaak Ti
* Qui-Gon Jinn
* Anakin
* Obi-Wan
* Sora Bulq

And I'm sure I'm forgetting a few.

Like I said, that term gets thrown around so often I don't know if it means much anymore, especially if they don't have feats to indicate it.

To be fair, that is a small small sample of an order approaching 10,000. In Shatterpoint, Mace laments that a majority of the order focused on the Diplomat's Form and was woefully unprepared for war.

Then you have Jedi knights and masters being destroyed by the likes of Ventress, who is barely a dark jedi in comparison.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're reaching bro. That still has nothing to do with opinion.

So you don't deny that is very possible for Kenobi to be full of shit then? Neph, I think they made him say that they were the the top four swordsman for a reason, despite it just being an Opinion, Obi-Wan himself has the best Soresu in the entire Jedi Order, which puts him UP THERE as a Lightsaber Duelist during the Clone War Era. His opinion means something. It's stupid how people always say "It's an opinion, that's all." They put that in there for a reason.

I don't think Obi-Wan says "Those four are some of the greatest swordsman in the order... But **** my opinion, because everything I say is Bullshit"

Obi-Wan's opinion would mean a lot more if Fisto and Mace weren't the only ones in that crew with exceptional track records. These are also the only two who do anything besides stand there like morons.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Neph, I think they made him say that they were the the top four swordsman for a reason, despite it just being an Opinion, Obi-Wan himself has the best Soresu in the entire Jedi Order, which puts him UP THERE as a Lightsaber Duelist during the Clone War Era. His opinion means something. It's stupid how people always say "It's an opinion, that's all." They put that in there for a reason.

I don't think Obi-Wan says "Those four are some of the greatest swordsman in the order... But **** my opinion, because everything I say is Bullshit"

Obi-Wans opinion in the same book is also that he's only 'proficient' in Soresu and that the other masters are all superior to him. His view of things could just be skewed by modesty and overestimation, as the writer stressed that he possesses those attributes.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
It seems like everybody and their gran is "one of the greatest swordsmen ever produced in the Jedi Order's 25,000 year history."

*Yoda
*Mace Windu
*Agen Kolar
*Saesee Tiin
*Kit Fisto
*Dooku (while still a Jedi)
* Shaak Ti
* Qui-Gon Jinn
* Anakin
* Obi-Wan
* Sora Bulq

And I'm sure I'm forgetting a few.

Like I said, that term gets thrown around so often I don't know if it means much anymore, especially if they don't have feats to indicate it.

That's because the PT era is full of powerhouse lightsaber duelists.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Saesee Tiin definitely isn't fodder. Guy's got speed feats like moving so fast he appears to be in 3 places at once, strength feats like casually smashing droids with his bare hands (Mace Windu even hints that Saesee Tiin is physically stronger than him) and Force feats like outdoing Mace Windu in a contest of raw telekinetic power. Plus, you know, he's a super telepath.

As for skill, he's noted in the RotS novel as one of the greatest swordsmen ever produced in the Jedi Order's 25,000 year history, and holds up in a sparring match against Mace Windu.

What's more? Shaak Ti downright admits inferiority to all of the B-Team's members too. That includes Tiin.

Saesee Tiin doesn't need to have defeated anyone to be better than mooks like Quinlan Vos.
To be honest, all of this hype means jack when he got punked by Sidious. When push came to shove, Mace Windu proved to be a standout.

I think that some individuals achieve great technical proficiency in bladework but they are not gifted Force-users and their effectiveness is poor accordingly. Tinn seems to fit in this category.

In case of lightsaber combat, Force Mastery is actually more relevant then martial skills.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
To be fair, that is a small small sample of an order approaching 10,000. In Shatterpoint, Mace laments that a majority of the order focused on the Diplomat's Form and was woefully unprepared for war.

Then you have Jedi knights and masters being destroyed by the likes of Ventress, who is barely a dark jedi in comparison.

That's true.

If it makes you feel any better, Tiin has two decent accoaldes:

Saesee's flying practise also helped to hone his Force abilities. By the time he arrived at the Jedi Temple, he was already adept at channeling his Force connection. As he progressed in the Order, he was acknowledged as having one of the strongest Force abilities of all the Jedi.
--Taken from The Official Star Wars Fact File #114

Most of the Jedi are deployed on distant worlds, but Mace manages to assemble a trio of celebrated swordmasters to assist him in arresting Palpatine: Agen Kolar, a Zabrak known among the Jedi to strike first and ask questions later; Saesee Tiin, a solitary Iktotchi who has never chosen a Padawan learner; and Kit Fisto, Nautolan master of Form 1 lightsaber technique, who distinguished himself on Geonosis and Mon Calamari, and who partnered Mace in battling Grievous on Coruscant.
--Taken from The Complete Visual Dictionary

Still no one??

He's beaten some droids, lol.

Seriously, it's more about who you fight than who you lose to, as well as hype, and so on. I mean, Sadow and Nadd have no notable victories with a blade, but that hardly makes them unskilled.

I WANT SAESEE TIIN TO BEAT DARTH MAUL!