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The debate Ares and I had could not be resolved with mere opinions, and he brought up some points that I needed to consider before I could continue. Something bothered me about the idea that the balance of the Force is only threatened in the PT/OT era and not for thousands upon thousands of years of Light Side versus Dark Side. The entire concept just seemed to defy reason. So here's what I've uncovered in a short time. The following are some arguments presented from other people with GL quotes, and I'd like to discuss them objectively, without a great deal of blind faith or literal interpretation.

Originally posted by Advent
1. George Lucas has stated that he is, in fact, the Chosen One. On numerous occasions actually. And it's obvious that "fulfilling the prophecy" equates to being the Chosen One.

"...which brings us up to films IV, V, and VI where Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe."

-- George Lucas, A New Hope Special Edition, VHS.

As well, on the most recent RotS DVD, there is a second disc that contains documentaries and bonus material. One of them is called the Chosen One. Lucas confirms that Anakin is the Chosen One in that. He says it's because he destroys Sidious in RotJ, and in the process he kills Darth Vader (basically himself). So, the prophecy is fulfilled.

George Lucas has said something similar in a Rolling Stone interview.

"There is a hint in the movie that there was a Sith Lord who had the power to create life. But it's left unsaid: Is Anakin a product of a super-Sith who influenced the Midichlorians to create him, or is he simply created by the Midichlorians to bring forth a prophecy, or was he created by the Force through the Midichlorians? It's left up to the audience to decide. How he was born ultimately has no relationship to how he dies, because in the end, the prophecy is true: Balance comes back to the Force."

-- George Lucas, Rolling Stone Magazine, June 2005.

As well, I believe the TPM novel also plainly outright states it. I'd hope all of this is suitable evidence for you.

2. The NEC confirms that. And while it is written in universe, it's pretty asinine to just throw it away with what all we know. Anakin is the Chosen One. I believe Escape has a quote that states his potential exceeds Sidious' own by double. From that, I really don't see anyone coming close.

However, at the moment I can't find any direct sources that you would take, so I'll continue looking. But, this is pretty obvious in my eyes.

3. Nowhere. Some people purely speculate from a statement made by George Lucas in a Rolling Stone interview. I've debated this numerous times, and nothing indicates such.

So, basically there has been no confirmation.

And Sexy, while I'd agree that it's ridiculous to assume the NEC is "fallible" (or rather not a source to go on), it is written from an in universe perspective. The narrator is Voren Na'al.

EDIT:

Or for Anakin being the Chosen One, just refer to ESB's post above, lol.

This post comes from Nov, '06, so it's hardly up to date, but one of the quotes was taken as the truth for some time; that the balance implied the destruction of the Sith (and apparently Anakin along with them, either as a byproduct of the struggle or as a necessity). It seemed reasonable that balance, according to GL and by extension G-canon, was the Sith being vanquished. The problem was, this doesn't sync with EU, where Sith exist continuously before and after the G-canon timeperiod.

--

And here's something from Gideon also back in '06:

Originally posted by Gideon
When did the Prophecy ever state that "balance" would be permenant? The Sith came back because Palpatine's essence fled to a clone body. Lumiya addresses this in LotF. She doesn't consider DE Palpatine to be a true Sith (like Vader and RotJ Palpatine were), but simply a clone with all of Palpatine's Sith teachings and techniques hardwired into it.
--

This following viewpoint is newer from July of this year, and is from poster "Beniboybling" at TOR forums. This was chosen because it was easily findable and contained some quotes we could use for examination:



I'm near my character limit, so please give me a few more minutes to compose a second post for additional info and clarity.

Here's some dialogue from RotS:

(after Anakin is assigned by the Jedi to spy on Chancellor Palpatine)
Obi-Wan Kenobi: Anakin did not take to his new assignment with much enthusiasm.
Mace Windu: It's very dangerous, putting them together. I don't think the boy can handle it. I don't trust him.
Obi-Wan Kenobi: With all due respect, Master, is he not the Chosen One? Is he not to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force?
Mace Windu: So the prophecy says.
Yoda: A prophecy that misread could have been.

Wookiepedia explains the theory as this:



It seems that Lucas' earlier statements about the Dark Side being cancerous have been retconned and explained away as the mislead ideas of the Jedi in relation to the prophecy. Things are also vague on whether or not Anakin was created by the Sith, or created in response to the Sith. GL himself even leaves this vague on purpose and for that reason we should give this some considerate thought.

--

Here's my concern:

1. The interpretation of the balance of the Force being solely tied to the Chosen One implies that before and after this time period, things were balanced.

2. This is again in spite of many many vicious wars against the Dark Side and its agents, chiefly in the form of Sith, throughout the ages when billions died and entire planets were stripped of life. In the case of the purge of the Jedi (KotOR II) time, the Jedi were at their lowest numbers since the OT.

3. Ares brought up the Force ritual used by the Sith before Sidious' rise, and the events on Mortis as clear indicators that the Force was tipped in favor of darkness, as well as the impaired ability of the Jedi in sensing danger/the future.

4. Regarding the ritual, it is admittedly the clumsiest part of Luceno's otherwise awesome work and does not explain how Sith can use the Force to.... force the Force to Force itself Forcy Dark Side etc. It just sounds like as Vene said "woo woo magic bullshit".

5. Regarding Mortis, I am less familiar with the events here, so I reserve judgment.

6. Regarding the impaired ability of the Force, Yoda says explicitly in ESB that the future is "always in motion" and is difficult to see. Nowhere in the mythos are Jedi shown to be accurate fortune tellers as a whole, and the Jedi Council is normally the last party to be aware of danger. Monumental failures to sense anything include the failure to sense Sadow's mass-illusion army, failure to sense the Sith Emperor behind the Mandalorian Wars, failure to sense the Sith Triumvirate, failure to figure out Malgus was going to pull an Avon Calling at their doorstep, and failure to notice Sith for a thousand years before Sidious was even spawned.

On this point, the Jedi Council is about as accurate as the weather channel.

My point is that the balance of the Force implies some kind of equilibrium. It's not the genocide of the red Sith post Great Hyperspace Wars, or the slaying of Sidious and Vader and their ilk. Nor is it the obliteration of the Jedi as per the Purge of TSL era. It seems logical enough that any time one side threatens the other greatly, or becomes too dominant in terms of power over the other, that balance is threatened, and therefore the Chosen One theory, while still valid within the context of G-canon and the movie era, does not adequately explain the rest of EU. Indeed, it may even be the case that other figures are saviors of their own eras of upheaval, such as Ulic Qel-Droma, Revan redeemed, Gav (a long shot, I agree), and the Hero of Tython to name a few.

What are your arguments? What are your thoughts?

Arawn_Fenn explained it pretty well at RoK: the dark side itself isn't the problem; the Sith are. More specifically, the Banite Sith. Most specifically, Sidious and Plagueis.

The Jedi didn't sense a change in the Force until approximately 200 years before Yavin (Labyrinth of Evil), a change which became further aggravated by Sidious & Plagueis's ritual in Plagueis, and exacerbated further still by Palpatine's actions post-Plagueis.

BTW, have you read Plagueis yet?

So then I have to ask:

1. How are the Bainite Sith worse to the balance of the Force than say, Nihilus being a wound and killing Force users en masse, and leaving planets barren in his wake?

2. How are the Bainite Sith worse to the balance of the Force than Vitiate's attempt to drain the cosmos?

3. How are the Bainite Sith worse to the balance of the Force than Kun corrupting and mass murdering Jedi, building the Dark Reaper, and creating vast corruptions of life using the Dark Side?

I have not read Plagueis yet, because I am going to reread some of my other EU books. It's been awhile for most of them. And I never did finish Maul's book.

It's a shame your fascination for poorly written, unpopular KOTOR/TOR-era books clouds your judgment. You're missing out on superior EU.

As to your questions, I'm not sure what you mean: The Banite Sith were responsible for far more Jedi deaths than either Nihilus or Kun and Vitiate's attempt to drain the cosmos failed miserably.

1. I was going to reread Clone War era books. You fail at assumptions.

2. LOLWUT? Nihilus and Sion drove the Jedi to the verge of extinction. Like, besides the Exile there's three Jedi Masters left and pretty much no one else. Most of the council was murderred at Katarr when Nihilus nom'd the entire planet, and Sion and his assassins routinely murdered those Nihilus didn't devour. When was the last time you played the game, bro?

3. So you're saying it's based on the quantity of those who die that determines balance? Ares said that was incorrect.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
1. I was going to reread Clone War era books. You fail at assumptions.

Plagueis must be read first.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
2. LOLWUT? Nihilus and Sion drove the Jedi to the verge of extinction. Like, besides the Exile there's three Jedi Masters left and pretty much no one else. Most of the council was murderred at Katarr when Nihilus nom'd the entire planet, and Sion and his assassins routinely murdered those Nihilus didn't devour. When was the last time you played the game, bro?

Sounds like you really ought to reread the Clone Wars books, son.

...Nihilus and Sion were merely mopping up the remnants of the Jedi not claimed by the wars against Revan, Malak, and the Mandalorians. Between the Clone Wars and Order 66, the Banite Sith slaughtered far more.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Plagueis must be read first.



Sounds like you really ought to reread the Clone Wars books, son.

...Nihilus and Sion were merely mopping up the remnants of the Jedi not claimed by the wars against Revan, Malak, and the Mandalorians. Between the Clone Wars and Order 66, the Banite Sith slaughtered far more.

Except that TSW indicates explicitly that there are ten thousand Jedi in the Order, which is comparable to the PT Order in numbers. And yes, Revan owes some responsibility for their purge, but the fact remains that by the time Nihilus and Sion are defeated, the Jedi could all comfortably fit in a Volkswagen Golf.

So yeah, IF the number of Jedi slain is indicative of Force imbalance, THEN it seems reasonable the Force was out of balance then.

Slaughtered more than Revan and his empire? Debatable.

What are the figures for the Jedi just prior to Revan's war and after?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Except that TSW indicates explicitly that there are ten thousand Jedi in the Order, which is comparable to the PT Order in numbers.

How many were left after Kun and Qel-droma were defeated?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
And yes, Revan owes some responsibility for their purge, but the fact remains that by the time Nihilus and Sion are defeated, the Jedi could all comfortably fit in a Volkswagen Golf.

That's not a fact in dispute and Revan is responsible for far more than just 'some' of the Triumvirate's purge. The Banite Sith (specifically Palpatine and his apprentices) were responsible for the deaths of thousands of Jedi Knights; didn't the Triumvirate only kill less than a hundred?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
So yeah, IF the number of Jedi slain is indicative of Force imbalance, THEN it seems reasonable the Force was out of balance then.

Not at all. You merely asked me how could the Banite Sith's efforts be worse than the actions of Kun, Nihilus, and Vitiate in the context of casualties and rituals. It's simple: The Banite Sith killed more and their rituals succeeded.

Vitiate is surely responsible for far more dead Jedi than Sidious.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate is surely responsible for far more dead Jedi than Sidious.

I should hope so, given that he had 14 centuries and an empire of Sith to achieve something meritorious.



What I meant is that the Banites killed more than Nihilus or Kun and their ritual succeeded, unlike Vitiate.

Tempest, ten thousand Jedi unite above Yavin IV to use the Wall of Light against Exar Kun. Forty years later, KotOR occurs. So unless thousands died of influenza in the interim, it's reasonable to assume that number remained stable until the Jedi Civil War and subsequent purge.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Tempest, ten thousand Jedi unite above Yavin IV to use the Wall of Light against Exar Kun. Forty years later, KotOR occurs. So unless thousands died of influenza in the interim, it's reasonable to assume that number remained stable until the Jedi Civil War and subsequent purge.

You're forgetting about the Mandalorian wars in between, bro.

NOW WHO DIDNT PLAY THE GAME?

http://www.mikymas.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/online-dating-profile-examples-no-flawless-victory.jpg

You mean, the Mandalorian wars that barely any Jedi fought in? As in, just the ones who followed Revan? Who then turned into Sith afterwards?

Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean, the Mandalorian wars that barely any Jedi fought in? As in, just the ones who followed Revan?

Coulda been a lot.

Not to mention that Jedi apostates flocked to Revan in droves after the war, meaning that the order Revan attacked was already wracked with desertion and dereliction.

Revan's purge was as effective as Sidious'.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Coulda been a lot.

Not to mention that Jedi apostates flocked to Revan in droves after the war, meaning that the order Revan attacked was already wracked with desertion and dereliction.

Yeah, and all those Jedi turned into Sith and died anyway, which I imagine would be a lot worse for the balance than just killing them.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
What are the figures for the Jedi just prior to Revan's war and after?
Before JCW: 10,000
After JCW: 100
Aftermath of JCW: Elimination of the Jedi Order.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's not a fact in dispute and Revan is responsible for far more than just 'some' of the Triumvirate's purge. The Banite Sith (specifically Palpatine and his apprentices) were responsible for the deaths of thousands of Jedi Knights; didn't the Triumvirate only kill less than a hundred?
Thousands died during various wars in TOR era timeline as well.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Not at all. You merely asked me how could the Banite Sith's efforts be worse than the actions of Kun, Nihilus, and Vitiate in the context of casualties and rituals. It's simple: The Banite Sith killed more and their rituals succeeded.
Vitiate is responsible for deaths of greatest number of Jedi in galactic history.

In addition, Vitiate's first (super) ritual was success, creating a massive disturbance in the Force and leaving a planet a void. His second (super) ritual was stopped (it did not failed).

http://blogs.vso.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Moving-the-goalposts-300x2402.jpg

Originally posted by psmith81992
Revan's purge was as effective as Sidious'.

Wow... I guess repeating shit over and over again without proof constitutes a logical argument. Check your crippling bias at the door you liberal hippie sumbitch and make me a sammich.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
http://blogs.vso.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Moving-the-goalposts-300x2402.jpg


Personally I'd think turning Jedi would rate much higher than killing them.

Plus they all died anyway.

Cool.

I am cool.

Ha, a Sidious fanboy calling me biased. Now THAT's amusing. Seeing as how there were less than 100 jedi remaining after Revan got done with his war, that's proof enough.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Ha, a Sidious fanboy calling me biased. Now THAT's amusing. Seeing as how there were less than 100 jedi remaining after Revan got done with his war, that's proof enough.

Omg you're an embarrassment to mankind. The purge would only be as effective if you could prove that Revan began with as many Jedi and killed as many Jedi as Sidious did. Or maybe you should just leave the arguments for Gideonno one because all Revan fanbois are stupid and lame and gay.

Also, where's my sammich?

http://perfectlycursedlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Queen-come-at-me-bro.jpg

So the argument stands. Your concession tastes delicious, like your tears.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
So the argument stands. Your concession tastes delicious, like your tears.

Those are not my tears you're drinking.

I actually addressed all of Beefy's points and yours; neither of you has elected to respond.

Thus, I WIN THIS THREAD (and all others)

Almost 200 Jedi survived the phase of Order 66.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Those are not my tears you're drinking.

I actually addressed all of Beefy's points and yours; neither of you has elected to respond.

Thus, I WIN THIS THREAD (and all others)

LOLNOPE.

You implied something vague about the Mando Wars even though we've dmeonstrated that the Jedil Civil War meets or surpasses the devastation to the Order from Order 66.

This still assumes that the death of many Jedi is instrumental in the shift or at least important.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose


LOLYES x infinity

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
You implied something vague about the Mando Wars even though we've dmeonstrated that the Jedil Civil War meets or surpasses the devastation to the Order from Order 66.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
LOLNOPE.

The devastation of the Jedi by the time of Kreia's death was the product of three different wars: the Mandalorian wars, the Jedi Civil War, and whatever we're calling Exile vs. The Triumvirate.

Revan's efforts constitute the lion's share of Jedi killing and countless Jedi flocked to his cause during the conflict. Meaning he may have very well killed far less Jedi than Palpatine and the Banites since a lot of the Jedi left to join his team.

In contrast, Order 66 and the Clone Wars that preceded them were entirely the product of Palpatine's singular efforts, meaning his purge was more impressive. And he didn't ask droves of them to join his team.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
This still assumes that the death of many Jedi is instrumental in the shift or at least important.

I'm not assuming that at all. You merely asked me how Banite efforts surpassed those of other Sith with respect to Jedi killing.

From Plagueis, we know what was instrumental in the shift: Plagueis & Palpatine pushing the Force out of balance via ritual.

That's true. And since you can't prove how many jedi Sidious had destroyed, looks like I win!

Originally posted by psmith81992
That's true. And since you can't prove how many jedi Sidious had destroyed, looks like I win!

lol fanboi! why u mad that revan sux?

Actually, "Casualty Report: Order 66" says that "fewer than a hundred" remained after Sidious issued it.

Ah, same as Revan's purge. Looks like I win

lol except 4 the fact that revan converted many more jedi than he killed according to kreia so he actually killed a lot less than sidious trolololol revan fanboi hahahahaha

lol

http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-rationalization-may-be-defined-as-self-deception-by-reasoning-karen-horney-238578.jpg
Figured out by an old ***** hahahahahha

lol @ her last name

http://www.troll.me/images/pissed-off-obama/no-im-not-youre-gay.jpg

Originally posted by The_Tempest
LOLYES x infinity





The devastation of the Jedi by the time of Kreia's death was the product of three different wars: the Mandalorian wars, the Jedi Civil War, and whatever we're calling Exile vs. The Triumvirate.

Revan's efforts constitute the lion's share of Jedi killing and countless Jedi flocked to his cause during the conflict. Meaning he may have very well killed far less Jedi than Palpatine and the Banites since a lot of the Jedi left to join his team.

In contrast, Order 66 and the Clone Wars that preceded them were entirely the product of Palpatine's singular efforts, meaning his purge was more impressive. And he didn't ask droves of them to join his team.



I'm not assuming that at all. You merely asked me how Banite efforts surpassed those of other Sith with respect to Jedi killing.

From Plagueis, we know what was instrumental in the shift: Plagueis & Palpatine pushing the Force out of balance via ritual.

Read again, I asked how the Bainites were worse enough in comparison to warrant the shifting of the balance. The underlying premise is that balance is just fine until they came along, even though the quotes provided in the first two posts even point out that they alone aren't the only ones capable of disharmony.

The imbalance of the force was due to Plagueis and Palpatine's ritual, shoving the force in favor of the dark side, which had nothing to do with jedi deaths, but by them asserting their authority over the force, which allowed Plagueis to outright defy the force in that he was able to manipulate midichlorians. Then Sidious further imbalanced it by clouding the jedis' far sight ability (AOTC graphic novel has Yoda trying to perceive the future, but it was blocked by an apparition of a hooded figure ), giving him more than just a one up on the jedi. During the PT era, the dark side reigned, and according to the DP novel, the dark side and Sidious were in complete harmony with one another, as the dark side made Palpatine it's property (most likely because of his intellect among his other traits) while Palpatine made the dark side his.

As of the PT and OT, the imbalance had more to do with the force being in Palpatine's favor (the dark side), with Palpatine--the dark side's instrument--being in complete control of almost everything, and in a way, even making the jedi servants of the dark side (which eventually lead to their own near extinction, and was a major cause of Palpatine's rise to power), as opposed to the number of jedi he wiped out. Almost everything went Sidious' way, which is why he had to be destroyed in order for balance to be brought back to the force.

That's my interpretation anyway.

^ Basically this.

Moose, your premise is outdated. Darth Plagueis reveals that imbalance was introduced to the Force due to the ritual undertaken by Plagueis and Sidious. The darkening of the Force 200 BBY was the result of cosmological experiments conducted by Tenebrous and his unnamed Master, which are also mentioned therein.

Like you, I much prefer the idea that the Force's imbalance was the product of the machinations of the Banite Sith, culminating in Palpatine's unprecedented rise to galactic power.

Luceno's take is unimaginative and petty, even though it confers what is arguably the most impressive display of Force manipulation in the entire mythology to Palpatine and Plagueis.

I don't see how my ideas are outdated when nothing GL or lore has stated has explicitly said the imbalance of the Force -only- occurred during the movie ra.

However, I admit that excluding this possibility by adding conditionals not in the theory smacks of stubbornness bordering on closed mindedness. Or in laymen's, it just seems like some people refuse to consider the possibility, perhaps because it takes away from the specialness of Anakin.

It's outdated in that the old theory -- that Palpatine's machinations and actions resulted in the imbalance -- has been debunked by newer literature. Instead of a gradual process of corruption and manipulation by the Sith, it pretty much came when Plagueis and Sidious sat down and literally pushed the Force out of balance.

Is there absolute proof that that hasn't happened elsewhere? No. But it's not noted nor is there any proof of any other Sith doing anything similar.

The only thing in the EU that truly undermines Anakin's uniqueness is Dark Empire.

Fair concession. And Dark Empire runs all over of the Chosen One theory, but context is important. In his world, GL never agreed that DE ever happened. This explains why the Sith rise to prominence and die utterly in his viewpoint.

Which would probably be better tbh. Not only would Anakin's uniqueness be preserved, but let's be honest: The Sith are, by and large, dismal failures. Who on earth would willingly become one?

Palpatine, bro.

And he was extremely successful. Why would anyone else not named Palpatine want to become one?

Palpatine's machinations may have imbalanced the force even further (I think Maul implied it in when his sanity was restored in TCW), but the force was out of balance even before Palpatine's rise to chancellorship.

I'm pretty sure Mace being the first black Jedi Master on the Council upset the dark side of the Force initially.

http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080624180538/starwars/images/thumb/8/85/Dorak.jpg/250px-Dorak.jpg

Ahem.

Those are some light colored eyes. He's clearly from the Hindu region, bro.

New food for thought:

The Sith created Anakin to bring their version of balance to the Force by wiping out those pesky Jedi. Anakin does his job more or less, but the Force has a will of its own and is extremely passive aggressive, so it arranges for Anakin to be turned back to the light side and eliminate the Sith.

At this point, the Jedi ranks one barely knight, Luke, and no major Sith Lords of note. Some semblance of balance is achieved, although at great horrific cost and open to shifting in the future.

Additional premise: both the Sith and the Jedi think balance means destruction of one another, while the Force itself realizes duality is an unavoidable factor of life and always takes obscure measures to make sure things don't get out of hand (like noming a galaxy)

Conclusions based on additional premise: Heroes like HoT overcame Vitiate because the Force favored the elimination of a very real threat to the cosmos. Same reason why Sidious was overcome by weaklings Luke and Leia, or why Nomi was able to magically overcome Ulic's considerable Force power with an ability she had barely learned and never tested.

I disagree with Locus' intended philosophy of Star Wars.

To me, the story tells me that society can never escape the "destruction and creation" of "the balance of good and evil": that while one can exist without the other, the collective of all life that compose the society will never let it.

Obviously, balance is not the will of the Force, it is the collective of those who personify it, the life that "creates it". Dark and Light are neither good nor bad and I agree entirely with Plagueis' philosophy up to the extent that the Force is neither intrinsically good or evil. Beyond that point I oppose Plagueis' social darwinism, that the weak should be killed off, then I take up Obi-Wan's belief that the weak should be provided for by the strong...and somewhere in there I sympathize with Anakin's quest to conquer death for those he loves. Though conquering death would require him to use the dark side as a means to better the galaxy, I uphold Plagueis' belief that the Force is unbiased to the light or the dark - and as Anakin I would use my powers to provide for everyone, and allow all to grow strong and expand.

I disagree with balance entirely, and that, in place of balance, life should be allowed to create, improve, and grow abundantly so that life as the skill to assume nature's role, so that creation does not become over-cumbersome to nature. See, Potentium.

The idea of "balance of the force" was a really good one but its execution was piss poor.

My belief is impractical to George's vision, I mean, it takes the 'Wars' out of Star Wars. Creation and Destruction. Star Wars is about action, that's why I've always loved it.

It was also a bit of freshman college philosophy. Heavy lifting of Asian religions and some classic hero archetypes melded with what was originally a sci fi epic inspired by Buck Rogers.

For me, the strongest part of the OT wasn't the heavy writing or the philosophy, but the unique atmosphere. SW stood out in contrast to Star Trek, or Buck Rogers, or whathaveyou, and remained unique. The PT era just muddied the waters.