Respect Emperor Palpatine

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Vitiate was the strongest of his time...Sidious was the strongest ever. Throw Sidious in that time period, he'll be bossing around Vitiate too.
Naah:

"The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed."

Just one of the servants of Vitiate was good enough to impress Sidious and teach him about how to maximize his power in the dark side.

Vitiate would reduce him to a trembling sycophant and take his thrown.

This explains the situation:

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/9/96986/2155841-the_emperor_in_descent.png

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://detroittransplant.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/why-you-mad-bro.jpg?w=594
Bow before the Sith Emperor

The_Tempest

Originally posted by psmith81992
Hm looks like the Sidious fanboys are hyped up on red bull today. Amusing indeed.

Nah, I just gentle roleplaying. (insert joke about your wife)

Would you prefer a less tongue-in-cheek, more mature debate?

Nephthys

An infantile display, Tempest.

ares834

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You are not making sense.

Vitiate have bossed around millions of Sith. In contrast, Palpatine have bossed around millions of citizens.

But I can understand your butthurt.

Join "his majesty" and relieve yourself from that butthurt:

thumb up

Good for him.

Too bad with those million Sith he couldn't wipe out the Jedi or conquer more than half the known Galaxy.

The_Tempest

Originally posted by Nephthys
An infantile display, Tempest.

Put the Tol Braga in front of my name and you've got the beginnings of a clever remark.

Don't get pissy simply because I'm making fun of Vitiate and gently teasing my beloved Beefcake.

Nephthys

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Put the Tol Braga in front of my name and you've got the beginnings of a clever remark.

Don't get pissy simply because I'm making fun of Vitiate and gently teasing my beloved Beefcake.

Reckless pride, limned by self-righteousness. You are master of nothing.

The_Tempest

Originally posted by Nephthys
Reckless pride, limned by self-righteousness. You are master of nothing.

I can't remember the Knight's response options. So... er... "No u"?

Nephthys

no u messed that up

The_Tempest

goddamnblessit, what would you have liked me to say?!

Nephthys

Maybe something Sidious said? I'm not your ****in' speech-writer, I thought you were supposed to be witty, lamer.

Also Vitiate's actually pretty cool in the game. His lines are suitably epic and his voice is sex.

The_Tempest

He will find your lost ship.

Nephthys

Originally posted by The_Tempest
He will find your lost ship.

I ship Emperor x HoT sooo hard!

I call it HoTiate. big grin

The_Tempest

How do you pronounce it?

Nephthys

Hotiate.

The_Tempest

... -.-

HO-SHEE-EIGHT?

Or HOT-EE-ATE?

DarthAnt66

Hint: Force-user ever...up to that time. (The Book was off of TOR era, they don't have knowledge on Palpatine's time)

Hint: But none have yet succeeded them. Vitiate's are up to his time, and none after Sidious have those kind of godly accolades. So, Palpatine's are still in play and rollin'.

DarthAnt66

Also on page 169, it says "Darth Malgus gathers his forces and prepares to reshape the galaxy." This shows the book timeline does not expand in other eras if the book really ends leading up to the final encounter with Malgus...

Nephthys

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Or HOT-EE-ATE?

Yes.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Hint: Force-user ever...up to that time. (The Book was off of TOR era, they don't have knowledge on Palpatine's time)

Yet they use the BBY dating system. wink

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Hint: Force-user ever...up to that time. (The Book was off of TOR era, they don't have knowledge on Palpatine's time)
Galactic history is very big up to that point. In-fact, your other favorites such as The Ones are part of that galactic history as well.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Hint: But none have yet succeeded them. Vitiate's are up to his time, and none after Sidious have those kind of godly accolades. So, Palpatine's are still in play and rollin'.
No, this is the latest compilation covering entire mythos:

http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Readers-Companion-Star-Wars/dp/0345511190

Surprise: No hype of Sidious in this sourcebook.

DarthAnt66

The Ones are not apart of the TOR era, and therefore are not included in the listings...

What? lol

Nephthys

Ahem. I said a thing.

ares834

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yet they use the BBY dating system. wink

Which, as noted in the preface, is used simply to avoid confusion. Otherwise, the book certainly seems to be written around the TOR era as the author does not have knowledge of future events.

Not that it matters, it's an in-universe source and thus is merely the opinion of the in-universe author.

Nephthys

And who is the author?

ares834

Why does it matter?

Nephthys

You say it was written in-universe?

By whom?

ares834

The preface mentions it is written in-universe but the author is not mentioned.

DarthAnt66

Its a team of BioWare writers ^ (Mentioned in back cover flap)

Nephthys

So it wasn't actually written in universe then.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Sarcastic-Clap-Happy-Ending.gif

Also it blatantly wasn't, since it says Jadus and Thanaton are both on the Council, despite them serving on there at mutually-exclusive points.

ares834

Originally posted by Nephthys
So it wasn't actually written in universe then.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Sarcastic-Clap-Happy-Ending.gif

Also it blatantly wasn't, since it says Jadus and Thanaton are both on the Council, despite them serving on there at mutually-exclusive points.

Uh, yes it is.

"Written entirely in-universe". That the name of the author is not mentioned does not contradict this in anyway.

Also not sure what your point of there being contradictions is...

Stealth Moose

NEC is written from fallible in-universe POV too.

And yes, cats are adorable.

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The Ones are not apart of the TOR era, and therefore are not included in the listings...
The Ones are ancient beings.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
What? lol
Yes,

Check this book: http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Readers-Companion-Star-Wars/dp/0345511190

And enjoy the butthurt you will feel afterwards.

ares834

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
NEC is written from fallible in-universe POV too.

I wouldn't be surprised. Alot of the guides are written in-universe to make them more interesting. In all honesty though, Sidious merely being called "the most powerful Sith ever" or some variation of that isn't sufficient proof that he is IMO.

SIDIOUS 66

Silver needs to update the force storm section with the SW: Comics companion, because it states that Palpatine's force storm threatened to consume ALL of space. Unmatched power right there.

Happy Dance

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by ares834
thumb up

Good for him.

Too bad with those million Sith he couldn't wipe out the Jedi or conquer more than half the known Galaxy.
Actually Vitiate is responsible for more Jedi deaths than any other being in galactic history.

As soon as he began to interfere in galactic affairs, outcome was devastating wars and unprecedented death and destruction:

1. Mandalorian Wars
2. Jedi Civil War
3. Sith Triumvirate

In these wars, the Jedi Order got eliminated and Republic weakened to such a level that it could be wiped out as well. However, Revan prevented Vitiate from capitalizing on these vulnerabilities.

Still, Vitiate made a comeback with Great Galactic War and came very close to eradicating both the Jedi Order and The Republic once again but Revan once again managed to prevent him from capitalizing on these developments. This led to disillusionment of Darth Malgus and the potential seeds of betrayal were sown.

Vitiate then arranged assassination of Revan and orchestrated his (super) ritual to consume the entire galaxy but this plan was thwarted, thanks to betrayal of Scourge.

Originally posted by ares834
I wouldn't be surprised. Alot of the guides are written in-universe to make them more interesting. In all honesty though, Sidious merely being called "the most powerful Sith ever" or some variation of that isn't sufficient proof that he is IMO.
You have an open mind. Appreciated.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Silver needs to update the force storm section with the SW: Comics companion, because it states that Palpatine's force storm threatened to consume ALL of space. Unmatched power right there.

Happy Dance

This is not possible because their is a limit to Palpatine's control in this aspect.

Stealth Moose

Originally posted by ares834
I wouldn't be surprised. Alot of the guides are written in-universe to make them more interesting. In all honesty though, Sidious merely being called "the most powerful Sith ever" or some variation of that isn't sufficient proof that he is IMO.

Ed Greenwood said that the top ten swordsmen of DnD, including Drizzt and Artemis, are so close in terms of skill as to be on the same plane, yet all are masters of their craft, and their respective ranking can shift very easily. Drizzt is fifth and Artemis is ninth, yet even this is dynamic and Artemis is not on a lower tier by comparison by Ed's own admission.

That is a fairer representation of power than any absolute statement, but you're right the ambiguity exists even in SW. In another example, the Elder Scrolls is chock full of ambiguity and the result is absolute truth does not exist.A power chart in TES is completely impossible because all lore is in-universe fallible.

DarthAnt66

Don't really understand the point...Dark Empire came after The Old Republic in Star Wars timeline, therefore it out rules it...

I understand your logic but disagree...your saying TOR outrules all of Palpatine quotes because its newer and up to date (on Earth), but Palpatine quotes came later in the actual Star Wars universe...get me?

Stealth Moose

No, no that's not how it works. DE sourcebook is years old. TOR content is new. This is why the THX remastered version of Empire Strikes Back does not retcon blu-ray Revenge of the Sith.

DarthAnt66

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
No, no that's not how it works. DE sourcebook is years old. TOR content is new. This is why the THX remastered version of Empire Strikes Back does not retcon blu-ray Revenge of the Sith.

Interesting...

Stealth Moose

Yeah, logic usually is that way.

Stealth Moose

I like how you edited your post after. Well played.

The_Tempest

Retcons only matter when there is explicit contradictions anyway.

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Don't really understand the point...Dark Empire came after The Old Republic in Star Wars timeline, therefore it out rules it...

I understand your logic but disagree...your saying TOR outrules all of Palpatine quotes because its newer and up to date (on Earth), but Palpatine quotes came later in the actual Star Wars universe...get me?
Timeline based argument is useless.

Authors always make decisions on the basis of "information available to them," and even they are susceptible to bias/promotions of their favorites in the mythos. Some years back, authors had ample reasons to believe that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord and/or practitioner of the dark side because no content was challenging his relative position, so Sidious received hype accordingly.

However, Star Wars lore continuously expands and within recent years we have newcomers such as Abeloth, The Father, The Daughter, The Son, Vitiate and Dread Master Styrak - all whom are remarkably powerful Force-users with considerably hype going for them.

So it doesn't makes sense to rely on outdated information to unnecessarily wank your favorites.

It is better to regard all of the premium Force-users as contenders for the top spot or consider TIER based ranking. In this manner, you can not just respect canon in its entirety but also respect the beliefs of your fellow fans.

You can say that following are TIER 1 (in no specific order):

- Abeloth
- The Father
- Vitiate
- Palpatine (DE)
- Dread Master Styrak

and vice versa.

Nephthys

Woah, Styrak shouldn't be in that tier dude.

Stealth Moose

So Vitiate is the embodiment of the dark side and the dark side made Sidious it's instrument. Sounds legit. Vitiate went on to become the Dark Side itself and helped Plageuis and Sidious create imbalance.

/thread.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ

Bestia is considered "perhaps the most powerful of the dread masters" by the by.

The_Tempest

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Nephthys
Woah, Styrak shouldn't be in that tier dude.
It is just an explanation.

Also, Dread Masters have The Ones like Force abilities. They can resurrect the dead, shapeshift, telepathically dominate, unleash potent dark side powers and all kinds of shit.

"The Dread Masters possess incredible, unprecedented power over the dark side of the Force."

Stealth Moose

I typo it to make you mad bro.

The_Tempest

I typo... your face...?

Stealth Moose

*Clap*

The_Tempest

You've got the clap?

Stealth Moose

Yeah you need to get checked too.

The_Tempest

I've had the clap for so long it might as well be called the standing ovation.

Stealth Moose

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I've had the clap for so long it might as well be called the standing ovation.

http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/just-slow-clap-it-out-gif.gif

Mizukage Yoda

Legend the Ones are firmly above any other being in terms of force power in galactic history.

Tier 0:
Father
Abeloth
Max Potential Anakin

Tier 0.5:
Son
Daughter
Luke Skywalker

Tier 1:
Sidious
Vitiate
Yoda

Tier 2:
Mace
Dooku
Hero of Tython
Revan
ect.

Tier 3:
The Rest

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ

If Vitiate's in tier 1, so should the hero stick out tongue

Mizukage Yoda

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
If Vitiate's in tier 1, so should the hero stick out tongue

Not at all. Vitiate has force feats that put him up there with the greatest in the verse. The Hero does not. He has excellent saber feats for repelling Vitiate's lightning though. Just like how Mace managed to corner Sidious in spite of being weaker than he is.

Dolos

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Legend the Ones are firmly above any other being in terms of force power in galactic history.

Tier 0:
Father
Abeloth
Max Potential Anakin

Father is Balance, Abeloth is Chaos, and Anakin's potential achieved through Luke in FoTJ and the rest of the Skywalkers down through history represented Balance in Father's absence.

Stealth Moose

I wish "Balance" wasn't personified by a stupid moron who thinks killing Sand people women and children as well as killing Jedi younglings is ever morally correct.

But he had a selfish need to connect with his son in the end, after millions died, so it's okay. He was a true hero.

DarthAnt66

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
So Vitiate is the embodiment of the dark side and the dark side made Sidious it's instrument. Sounds legit. Vitiate went on to become the Dark Side itself and helped Plageuis and Sidious create imbalance.

/thread.

No, Sidious>Vitiate. ^.^ You can't just bash away hundreds of accolades claiming their outdated...especially when some were just released as recently as 2011. Don't get me wrong, Vitiate is up their in the Top 3 Sith, but Plagueis ("Plagueis was the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived... -Plagueis Novel), and then Sidious (numerous accolades and feats) ahead of Vitiate. Vitiate's accolades apply to up to himself. If you disagree, explain to me why Malgus's death is not even yet recorded in the book. The encyclopedia ends with the conclusion of the Hero's quest, and does not go into other later eras.
Sidious>Plagueis>Vitiate>Ragnos.

And honestly, G-canon states Sidious as number one various times, while Vitiate's quotes only fall into C-canon. G-canon>C-canon bro.

Nephthys

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And honestly, G-canon states Sidious as number one various times,

False.

DarthAnt66

Oh wow, you're right. Well while I'm on a hunt for a Lucas quote on Palpatine, here is some G-Canon quotes from Revenge of the Sith Novel:

And then there was Palpatine, of course: he was beyond power. He showed nothing of what might be within. Though seen with the eyes of the dark side itself, Palpatine was an event horizon. Beneath his entirely ordinary surface was absolute, perfect nothingness. Darkness beyond darkness.
A black hole of the Force.
-Revenge of the Sith

In that lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and blades and bashing machines, his vision finally pierced the darkness that had clouded the Force.
-Revenge of the Sith

Dooku could not argue. Not only had the Dark Lord introduced Dooku to realms of power beyond his most spectacular fantasies, but Sidious was also a political manipulator so subtle that his abilities might be considered to dwarf even the power of the dark side itself. It was said that whenever the Force closes a hatch, it opens a viewport...and every viewport that had so much as cracked in this past thirteen standard years had found a Dark Lord of the Sith already at the rim, peering in, calculating how best to slip through.
-Revenge of the Sith

Also just as a side note, what is the level of canon for a Star Wars Insider?

Stealth Moose

1. What is the context of those quotes? Are they omniscient third person narrator, or someone's in-universe POV?

2. At what point do we draw the line with hyperbole? With this kind of logic, Exar Kun is 100,000 times himself with amulets. Kun > everything.

3. An Insider magazine is an official magazine, IIRC, but not everything within it is G-canon. It includes editor's articles, fan mail, events, pictures, and even interviews with people spouting their opinions. It depends greatly on where the source is coming from, if it is quoted correctly and not trimmed or distorted, and how old it is.

Dolos

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I wish "Balance" wasn't personified by a stupid moron who thinks killing Sand people women and children

He admitted, "I know I'm better than this" in AoTC, he did not believe it was okay to kill Sand People women and children.

Anakin had lost his sense of morality and was purely following orders to eliminate Force sensitives who've been initiated into the Jedi teachings for Palpatine.

How is that selfish? It's an intrinsically motivated sense of morality.

It served as an indicator that a part of Anakin remained in that he was unable to put his responsibilities as Emperor's Executor over his natural, altruistically driven paternal instincts.

People change every moment of their lives, Lucas makes a clear distinction between Anakin, Vader, and redeemed Anakin.

In the end "good is a point of view"; from a certain point of view Sidious was a hero for destroying the Jedi.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Not at all. Vitiate has force feats that put him up there with the greatest in the verse. The Hero does not. He has excellent saber feats for repelling Vitiate's lightning though. Just like how Mace managed to corner Sidious in spite of being weaker than he is.

Except that it is kinda mentioned that, "For all the Emperor's power, he was no match for you." In terms of the force, the Emperor himself notes his power as immense, and I believe he does have some impressive force feats. He uses the force to do things like blitz sith lords anyways, he's the complete opposite of, say, the consular. Even then, if you count the dark side ending, he does actually manage to ragdoll Vitiate and release some large pillar on him.

Stealth Moose

Originally posted by Dolos
He admitted, "I know I'm better than this" in AoTC, he did not believe it was okay to kill Sand People women and children.

That's like Stalin saying "Oops" after killing people, or Hitler. Recognition of guilt with the subsequent refusal to atone and/or learn from it does not equal any kind of good moral standing. Anakin is headstrong, selfish, aggressive, dominating, amoral when it comes to people who have no personal attachment to him, and manipulative. He's a rotten bastard.

Again, would you firebomb a German school to kill Hitler Youth? Would you slash North Korean children born under the current regime?

This isn't an ethical argument; it's apologist rhetoric and it fails to stand to scrutiny.

1. A planet blows up. He doesn't care.

2. He tortures his own daughter unknowingly. Doesn't apologize.

3. He helps the oppression and murder of perhaps millions during the Empire's lifetime.

4. He slaughtered younglings, Jedi unaffiliated with him, and others at the drop of a hat, because Sidious promised him life for his wife.

5. He then suddenly has this need to connect to Luke. So instead of being motivated to turn because of all that wrong doing, he's motivated by a personal connection and a personal need to do right by his own son.

That's my point. Incredibly selfish.

And padawan Obi-Wan is not the same man as RotS Obi-Wan or ANH Obi-Wan. But the point remains that Vader is self-serving and amoral to those outside of his sphere of personal connection.

And Rome 'civilized' the West by killing, enslaving, and conquering much of Europe, Asia Minor, and north Africa.

You can use "from a certain point of view" to establish subjectivism, but not any kind of general moral truth. If I say stealing is wrong, this isn't from a "certain point of view" but from the viewpoint of society, an overwhelming majority. They don't equate.

Anakin is a failed hero, and his moral standing is entirely questionable, which explains why I've had nothing but utter loathing for him since AotC hit the theaters.

Dolos

He's not manipulative, he's direct. He's not afraid, fight and maybe get get ****ed up in the process, for what he believes. He's courageous in the heat of battle, that's the one admirable trait the character possesses. As much violence he's seen, as much damage as has been done to him after RoTS, he's still fearless in the heat of battle.

He hates himself for all that he's done after becoming Vader, he's so conflicted that he cannot reach his full potential.

Sidious is manipulative, he's a liar, he's a afraid to engage in battles even if the odds of winning those battle are in his favor he'll send someone else to fight for him.

Anakin had no control of his emotions, yes, but he didn't intend to be taken from his mother, thrown into a life of servitude and celibacy, to be brought up as the chosen one, to see the death he saw, to have his limbs amputated or to be burned, worst of all to lose literally everyone that gave a **** about him which mainly his fault. He didn't know right from wrong, and he was irrational, oblivious to the damage he caused, blinded by anger and later so repressed that he developed the Vader persona to cope.

I don't think he was a rotten bastard, I think Sidious was a rotten bastard, I think Vader was a warrior hardened into amorality to cope with his actions. He wasn't nice, he was the "bad father", the "bad lover", the "brutal killer".

After RoTS, no one cared about him, he was a killer, and in the end you have to feel some empathy for the character.

Vader is very similar to Homeric Achilles, greatest warrior of all time, seeking immortality, etc.

Based

TOR vs not TOR is quickly becoming a discussion as toxic as religion or politics.

Dolos

Originally posted by Based
TOR vs not TOR is quickly becoming a discussion as toxic as religion or politics. Well the thing is, and I'll admit it, ToR has a gazillion more Force powers than the PT and OT era -- but that is because the OT and PT eras were created first, and the powers featured in ToR are derived from the expanded literature of JA, ToTJ, KoToR, NJO, DN, FoTJ and so on.

Nephthys

Also because TOR is obviously the superior era in terms of ability and PTfags don't want to admit it. awepedo

Dolos

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also because TOR is obviously the superior era in terms of ability I just did admit it.

They knew more Force powers.

Force powers are what put a Jedi over a Clone Trooper. I would be erroneous in asserting that a warrior Jedi is better with less of an esoteric arsenal.

Also, Force Drain tm

Nephthys

Awesome.

Sorry, its just been such a big thing for people to argue that the PT era was the best ever in terms of Jedi fighting power that its an automatic assumption in terms of outlook.

Dolos

Originally posted by Nephthys
Awesome. thumb up

Sorry, its just been such a big thing for people to argue that the PT era was the best ever in terms of Jedi fighting power that its an automatic assumption in terms of outlook. They were; that's all they focused on.

But augmenting the body and mind, and using kinetic Force abilities doesn't leave a lot of defense for more esoteric abilities, as demonstrated when Exar Kun wtf pwns Luke and struggles to win battle against the entire Jedi Academy on Yavin 4 whereas reborn Sidious, far stronger, struggles to beat Luke and Leia.

Then you have Force-enhancing crystals like the Kaiburr Crystal in Splinter of the Mind's Eye, you have Force drain, you have vergences like Nihilus - you have crazy rituals, you have the Nightsisters of Dathomir in TCW and The Courtship of Princess Leia.

But as far as a straight-up fight, without those abilities to use, TOR characters get stomped. I mean, as far over-the-top pure-combat feats in TOR, watch the CW cartoon, read the CW comics, etc.

Only difference is TOR Sith and Jedi are challenged in combat by non-Force sensitives with a lot of tech, powerful Sorcerers are bested by lesser Warrior Sith - whereas in the PT era, Force powers aren't sporadic, even powerful Sith and Jedi still combated each other with kinetic Force powers and the Nightsisters were powerful sorceresses but were afraid to battle directly (Talzin being forced to rely on a Voodoo doll to get back at Tyranus), the hierarchy of Force users was easier to follow.

Sorry.

Nephthys

Originally posted by Dolos
They were; that's all they focused on.

Nooooo, they focused on fighting blaster wielding opponents, in blocking blaster shots etc and in the easy to learn diplomats form. Why would they be so awesome in lightsaber fighting when they hadn't fought lightsaber wielding foes in a thousand years? This is specifically noted to not be the case in numerous texts.

As Moose said, they were specifically not focused on fighting. erm

Originally posted by Dolos
But as far as a straight-up fight, without those abilities to use, TOR characters get stomped. I mean, as far over-the-top pure-combat feats in TOR, watch the CW cartoon, read the CW comics, etc.

Those examples are exaggerated materials. They don't represent the PT Jedi's actual abilities.

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Legend the Ones are firmly above any other being in terms of force power in galactic history.
The Ones have such hype but Dread Masters have shown similar abilities.

Do not mix G-canon ground realities with C-canon ground realities. You will end up being more confused.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Tier 0:
Father
Abeloth
Max Potential Anakin

Tier 0.5:
Son
Daughter
Luke Skywalker

Tier 1:
Sidious
Vitiate
Yoda

Tier 2:
Mace
Dooku
Hero of Tython
Revan
ect.

Tier 3:
The Rest
You think that mortals can match immortals in potential? Think again.

Luke Skywalker almost rivals The Chosen One in potential (confirmed in the official commentary about Episode V movie) and he is far behind Abeloth even at his peak. Therefore, Star Wars has moved beyond the whole "midichlorian" concept.

Also, I wouldn't put Dooku in the league of Hero of Tython and Yoda in the league of Vitiate.

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No, Sidious>Vitiate. ^.^ You can't just bash away hundreds of accolades claiming their outdated...especially when some were just released as recently as 2011. Don't get me wrong, Vitiate is up their in the Top 3 Sith, but Plagueis ("Plagueis was the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived... -Plagueis Novel), and then Sidious (numerous accolades and feats) ahead of Vitiate. Vitiate's accolades apply to up to himself. If you disagree, explain to me why Malgus's death is not even yet recorded in the book. The encyclopedia ends with the conclusion of the Hero's quest, and does not go into other later eras.
Sidious>Plagueis>Vitiate>Ragnos.

And honestly, G-canon states Sidious as number one various times, while Vitiate's quotes only fall into C-canon. G-canon>C-canon bro.
Sidious is not no. 1 as per G-canon. In addition, his evaluation is based on the content excluding latest developments (SWTOR; Mortis; FOTJ). It is better to consider TIER ranking logic.

Plagueis have been hyped like that in the backcover of the novel (not in "in-universe" writing). Holistically and evidently, he doesn't matches the power of Vitiate and neither Sidious. However, if you are going to rely upon that quote then keep in mind that it kind of nullifies Sidious's official wanking as well. So exercise caution and not stupidity.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Oh wow, you're right. Well while I'm on a hunt for a Lucas quote on Palpatine, here is some G-Canon quotes from Revenge of the Sith Novel:

And then there was Palpatine, of course: he was beyond power. He showed nothing of what might be within. Though seen with the eyes of the dark side itself, Palpatine was an event horizon. Beneath his entirely ordinary surface was absolute, perfect nothingness. Darkness beyond darkness.
A black hole of the Force.
-Revenge of the Sith

In that lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and blades and bashing machines, his vision finally pierced the darkness that had clouded the Force.
-Revenge of the Sith

Dooku could not argue. Not only had the Dark Lord introduced Dooku to realms of power beyond his most spectacular fantasies, but Sidious was also a political manipulator so subtle that his abilities might be considered to dwarf even the power of the dark side itself. It was said that whenever the Force closes a hatch, it opens a viewport...and every viewport that had so much as cracked in this past thirteen standard years had found a Dark Lord of the Sith already at the rim, peering in, calculating how best to slip through.
-Revenge of the Sith

Also just as a side note, what is the level of canon for a Star Wars Insider?
Novels are c-canon.

ROTS novel is almost entirely written in hyperbolic language.

Intrepid37

I feel like making a SW_LeGenD respect thread where I look through his posting history and collect all of his funny SWVF claims.

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I feel like making a SW_LeGenD respect thread where I look through his posting history and collect all of his funny SWVF claims.
Go ahead and try. If a ban follows, do not complain. Similar mistake have happened before, I assure you.

It is OK to disagree on Sci-Fi stuff but it is NOT OK to get personal.

Mizukage Yoda

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The Ones have such hype but Dread Masters have shown similar abilities.

Do not mix G-canon ground realities with C-canon ground realities. You will end up being more confused.

You think that mortals can match immortals in potential? Think again.

Luke Skywalker almost rivals The Chosen One in potential (confirmed in the official commentary about Episode V movie) and he is far behind Abeloth even at his peak. Therefore, Star Wars has moved beyond the whole "midichlorian" concept.

Also, I wouldn't put Dooku in the league of Hero of Tython and Yoda in the league of Vitiate.

No they are not. If you mention your bullshit ground realities again I will not respond to your posts in this thread. A time after that in another thread and its straight on the ignore list. Its the biggest asspull you've made up. Also don't think I haven't seen your shameful editing of the Sidious page on the Star Wars wiki to satisfy your endless need to secure Vitiate's immortal cock betwixt your lips.

No all that was said was Luke was what Anakin could have been. That does not mean Luke=Anakin in raw power + Force potential. Eh I am 50/50 on the HoT. And Yoda would demolish Vitiate in a straight 1v1.

Intrepid37

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Also don't think I haven't seen your shameful editing of the Sidious page on the Star Wars wiki
lol really?

pencilcrayon

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Also don't think I haven't seen your shameful editing of the Sidious page on the Star Wars wiki to satisfy your endless need to secure Vitiate's immortal cock betwixt your lips.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk messed

_W_LeGenD
Is this it?

Nephthys

That..... is pretty gay, Legend. erm

Stealth Moose

Originally posted by Dolos
He's not manipulative, he's direct.

Anakin manipulates Padme's emotions. Their love has passion and commitment, but lacks true intimacy. He's also got shades of an abusive spouse. You know, get mad, choke a *****.

Conviction without context is not a virtue. Alexander the Great had conviction that he was the son of a god and it was his destiny to conquer the known world. To this end, among other atrocities, he sacked Thebes and murdered most of the inhabitants, selling the survivors into slavery.

This reminds me of that scene in Gladiator.

List of Virtues. Keep in mind the person championing alternate virtues is completely missing the point that the primary virtues listed make someone a moral man, not a great man. You can be great and terrible as well.

Yet the turning point in his 'redemption' is again, that selfish connection with his son. Not those he doomed to die elsewhere. Not the perhaps hundreds of young Jedi he personally killed to protect his wife, whom he later choked anyways.

And I respect the character more, because no one masquerades him as a good guy. He's an excellent villain, and played by an amazing actor (in fact, in the PT pretty much any good part is played by someone from Scotland, England, Northern Ireland, etc.).

A lot of people have rough childhoods. But a fraction of a percentage of those people go out to massacre whole groups of people including children. His background is not an excuse for his moral failings, and he was surrounded by paragons of social morality; the Jedi explicitly worked to bring peace and harmony to the galaxy, and it was his own failings that prevented him from embracing this lifestyle and instead throwing the entire Order under the bus because one person promised him a vague answer to his imagined problems.

I'm pretty sure killing unarmed children is the height of rotten. Everything else he did just cements it. Even his slaughter of the sand people is a dehumanizing event.

LOLNOPE. I wouldn't feel any empathy for someone who himself lacks empathy.

Achilles was an unlikable douche too, putting himself and those personally attached to him above all others. His treatment of Hector's body was vicious considering the honor of the man, and his death was entirely karmic because of how he decided to live his life. I have to give Achilles some credit though: he didn't choke Patroclus after slaughtering the children of the Greeks.

Nephthys

Trying to edit Sidious' wookie page and arguing about who's the most powerful Sith Lord there. Just no.....

Mizukage Yoda

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
-snip-

Baseless? Dude you participated in the shitshow of a flamewar on the 'is Sidious the strongest Sith' on the starwars wiki. Then you expect me to believe you weren't responsible for at least some of the edit wars that have been happening on that page? laughing

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Palpatine#Powerful

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Nephthys
Trying to edit Sidious' wookie page and arguing about who's the most powerful Sith Lord there. Just no.....
I have never edited Sidious's wookie page. I have better things to do in life, seriously.

Also, their is no shame in participating in debates in any medium. I provided some information that many were unaware of.

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Baseless? Dude you participated in the shitshow of a flamewar on the 'is Sidious the strongest Sith' on the starwars wiki. Then you expect me to believe you weren't responsible for at least some of the edit wars that have been happening on that page? laughing

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Palpatine#Powerful
Its a "talk page."

Also, these type of discussions have occurred before in Sidious's talk page.

Check the title "He's not the most powerful Sith" down below.

I have never even started these discussions there. I just checked the pages and gave my 2 cents.

Intrepid37

Who are your top 5 favorite characters, LeGenD?

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Who are your top 5 favorite characters, LeGenD?
From Jedi:

1. Hero of Tython
2. Revan
3. Yoda

From Sith

1. Darth Sidious
2. Sith Emperor (Vitiate)
3. Tulak Hord
4. Darth Nox

Seven in total.

Their are some other characters that I find fascinating.

Intrepid37

That's my lists as well.

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Intrepid37
That's my lists as well.
We finally have something in common in case of Star Wars mythos. smile

Mizukage Yoda

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Its a "talk page."

Also, these type of discussions have occurred before in Sidious's talk page.

Check the title "He's not the most powerful Sith" down below.

I have never even started these discussions there. I just checked the pages and gave my 2 cents.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/466/626/c18.gif

God I love catching you in the act of fiercely blowing Vitiate. Dude the sw wiki is a shitstorm. Stay away from it.

Freedon Nadd

@The Tempest

You always solely said that Sidious mastered all the 7 forms of lightsabers...

Well where is that source,cause I can't find it?!

Freedon Nadd

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
We finally have something in common in case of Star Wars mythos. smile

Some always solely said and claimed that Sidious mastered all the 7 forms of lightsabers...

Well where is that source,cause I can't find it?!

AncientPower

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Baseless? Dude you participated in the shitshow of a flamewar on the 'is Sidious the strongest Sith' on the starwars wiki. Then you expect me to believe you weren't responsible for at least some of the edit wars that have been happening on that page? laughing

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Palpatine#Powerful
This is beautiful, LeGenD completely exposed. He tried to lie and said I was spreading rumors about him by pointing that out, ah the hilarity.

DarthAnt66

You still have no credibility though, so it doesn't matter.

AncientPower

You talking about credibility (or lack thereof) is equivalent to the irony of Ben Carson judging prison inmates. However if you wish to continue humiliating yourself by trolling others and attempting to maintain a facade of respect whilst doing so, then please carry on.

Stigma

Originally posted by AncientPower
You talking about credibility (or lack thereof) is equivalent to the irony of Ben Carson judging prison inmates. However if you wish to continue humiliating yourself by trolling others and attempting to maintain a facade of respect whilst doing so, then please carry on.
thumb up

http://m.memegen.com/sjua07.jpg

Trocity

Legend is so disgustingly biased towards TOR, I've never seen someone more blatantly biased except for maybe Marco and Maul.

carthage

DMB, Appletonia, and Neph for Bane???

Aurbere

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You still have no credibility though, so it doesn't matter.

thumb up

Ninja thumb.

Nephthys

Originally posted by Selenial
thumb up

You for Meetra and Traya.

|King Joker|

Originally posted by carthage
DMB, Appletonia, and Neph for Bane??? Don't group appletonia with them. He's a... special case.

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by AncientPower
This is beautiful, LeGenD completely exposed. He tried to lie and said I was spreading rumors about him by pointing that out, ah the hilarity.
Sometimes I have serious doubt about your comprehension and intellectual abilities.

You need to revisit my statement about this matter, that I have never edited the Sidious character article (itself) in the Wookiee regarding the "most powerful" argument and I didn't even start this debate in that source to begin with, that I have participated only in the talk section about this matter of the Sidious character.

Is it now a crime to participate in talk pages of characters and discuss different points in the Wookiee?

You, on the other hand, accused me of being a Wookiee troll and engaging in edit-wars about the "most powerful" argument for Sidious character article, which I never did.

Let me get one thing straight here, I do not fabricate information and do not lie. Same cannot be said with confidence about you, given your history here.

DarthAnt66

Originally posted by Stigma
thumb up

http://m.memegen.com/sjua07.jpg

Stigma

Ant siding with LeGenD on that one....Interesting development mmm

AncientPower

So you engaging in said talk page debate at the same time as the edit war that happened is purely coincidental? I think not.

LeGenD exactly what have I fabricated? The only point in time I ever posted something that I couldn't personally source was a description of Exar Kun vs Vodo Siosk Baas.

You on the other hand routinely dismiss any and all evidence set against you in debates and routinely claim other people are biased or intellectually challenged for not agreeing.

You and your clown of a cheerleader are both excessively biased, one of you is a glorified troll and the other merely a quote dumper with a facade of superiority. I'll leave it to your superior cognitive faculties to decide which of the two ye are.