Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I have come up with a list of the top ten Jedi and the top ten Sith.
I am aiming to be as accurate as possible.
Doesn't include Revan (because you mention him, and fights break out).

Sith
1. Darth Sidious
2. Lord Vitiate
3. Darth Nihilus
4. Darth Bane
5. Exar Kun
6. Darth Krayt
7. Darth Malgus
8. Dooku
9. Darth Caedus
10. Darth Vader

Jedi
1. Luke Skywalker (NJO)
2. Yoda
3. Hero of Tython
4. Barsen'Thor
5. Galen Marek
6. Nomi Sunrider
7. Satele Shan
8. Cade Skywalker
9. Mace Windu
10. IDK, Anakin Skywalker?

Now as for questions on my choices

1. DOOKU HIER THAN CAEDUZ? WTF MAN?
Dooku has a better track record overall, while Caedus is inconsistent. Caedus hasn't beaten anyone through pure sabers (he baited Mara into a bad position, and he TK'd a shuttle at Katarn), and the Luke fight states that Luke was fighting extremely recklessly.

2. GALEN MAREK SO HI? BUT HE WAS A VIDIO GAEM GIMIK!!!
There was a novel (as we all know), Galen beat Vader (struggled, but stomped in the end), reflected and ADVANCED against Sidious' lightning (Yoda couldn't do this, and to those who think Sidious wasn't trying to kill Galen, realize Galen could have became Sidious' superior), his TK is INSANE (you don't just redirect a 900 meter ship and get downplayed), and his lightning killed a Mega Sarlacc, the biggest one in the galaxy.

Everything else should be somewhat obvious.

I really like your list.

And I agree about Caedus. Luke was fighting reckless as hell in that fight. Not sure I'd actually count Marek as a Jedi. mmm But if I did, thats where I'd put him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I really like your list.

And I agree about Caedus. Luke was fighting reckless as hell in that fight. Not sure I'd actually count Marek as a Jedi. mmm But if I did, thats where I'd put him.

Though I do ask one thing. Who is more powerful? HoT or Barsen'Thor? And technically shouldn't Galen be #3 because of his RIDICULOUS feats?

I mean like
-fried a Mega Sarlacc
-LOLSTOMP Vader
-reflected advanced against old fart's lightning
-the droid hurricane that you mentioned in a different thread
-REPULSE DA BESTEST
-Moved a Star Destroyer
-Distintegrated a frigate (again, something you mentioned in a different thread
-good saber ability

The Hero in my book.

Galens feats ARE ridiculous. Which is the point. They're purposefully exaggerated to be "unleashed" and as ridiculously over-the-top as possible. I take them with a serious grain of salt and rank him more in how he measures up against Vader. Marek is only a bit above Vader, so thats where he ranks to me.

This is judging them on power.

I'd be interested in seeing a list of top Jedi/Sith based on following the ideals of their respective orders.

I would imagine Obi-Wan would be top tier for the Jedi and Bane would be top tier for the Sith.

Revan and Anakin wouldn't make the list because becoming a Sith Lord totally misses the point of all that Jedi training.

Nihilus wouldn't make the list since the Sith are all about being masters of the force, while Nihilus seems to be a slave to it.

Darth Vader wouldn't be on the list because converting back to the light side misses the point of all that Sith training.

Uthar (KotOR) wouldn't make it because he let his master live, which isn't really the Sith way.

I think Exar Kun, Plagueis, and Sidious would be on the list for Sith.

Ajunta Pall is out because he was redeemed.

Luke may be out because he fell to the darkside.

Anyways, if I have freetime, I might compile a full list.

But the novelization only has him guiding or diverting the path of the falling Star Destroyer.

So does the game.

Vader should be higher. In fact higher than Nihilus.

Not a bad list

Originally posted by XRKun
Doesn't include Revan (because you mention him, and fights break out).


Originally posted by XRKun
Sith
1. Darth Sidious
2. Lord Vitiate
3. Darth Nihilus
4. Darth Bane
5. Exar Kun
6. Darth Krayt
7. Darth Malgus
8. Dooku
9. Darth Caedus
10. Darth Vader
Some observations:-

- Put Sidious and Vitiate in a TIER.
- Darth Bane shouldn't be at 4th spot.
- Darth Malgus is noticeably stronger then Drath Krayt.
- Dooku shouldn't be in TOP TEN.
- Darth Caedus is noticeably stronger then Count Dooku.
- Darth Vader shouldn't be in TOP TEN either.

Originally posted by XRKun
Jedi
1. Luke Skywalker (NJO)
2. Yoda
3. Hero of Tython
4. Barsen'Thor
5. Galen Marek
6. Nomi Sunrider
7. Satele Shan
8. Cade Skywalker
9. Mace Windu
10. IDK, Anakin Skywalker?
Some observations:-

- Yoda is canonically the most powerful Jedi. If you want to put Luke above him then develop a TIER and put your top 4 in it.
- Galen Marek is not a Jedi.
- You can consider Aryn Leener, Tol Braga, Jacen Solo, Jaric Kaedan and Kao Cen Darach for this list.

Originally posted by XRKun
1. DOOKU HIER THAN CAEDUZ? WTF MAN?
Dooku has a better track record overall, while Caedus is inconsistent. Caedus hasn't beaten anyone through pure sabers (he baited Mara into a bad position, and he TK'd a shuttle at Katarn), and the Luke fight states that Luke was fighting extremely recklessly.
Well, Dooku have his low moments as well.

Katarn was part of a Strike Team and that entire Team couldn't stop Ceadus. In addition, I don't think that Count Dooku could hold up against Luke like Caedus did, reckless or not.

Originally posted by XRKun
2. GALEN MAREK SO HI? BUT HE WAS A VIDIO GAEM GIMIK!!!
There was a novel (as we all know), Galen beat Vader (struggled, but stomped in the end), reflected and ADVANCED against Sidious' lightning (Yoda couldn't do this, and to those who think Sidious wasn't trying to kill Galen, realize Galen could have became Sidious' superior), his TK is INSANE (you don't just redirect a 900 meter ship and get downplayed), and his lightning killed a Mega Sarlacc, the biggest one in the galaxy.

Everything else should be somewhat obvious.
See above

Quite arguable (as evidenced by the last Malgus/Krayt thread).

Originally posted by The Merchant
Vader should be higher. In fact higher than Nihilus.

LOLWUT.

Also, I think the idea of "tiers" is better. Looking at WotC's ranking system fo their top swordsman including a list of ten, but pointed out that they were so close in skill that they were always a legitimate threat to each other, barring PIS, and the ordering could change very rapidly. Ultimately, we might do ourselves more justice using tiers which can be agreed upon rather than pretending like A is better than B so much as to be differentiated.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD



Some observations:-

- Put Sidious and Vitiate in a TIER.
- Darth Bane shouldn't be at 4th spot.
- Darth Malgus is noticeably stronger then Drath Krayt.
- Dooku shouldn't be in TOP TEN.
- Darth Caedus is noticeably stronger then Count Dooku.
- Darth Vader shouldn't be in TOP TEN either.


Some observations:-

- Yoda is canonically the most powerful Jedi. If you want to put Luke above him then develop a TIER and put your top 4 in it.
- Galen Marek is not a Jedi.
- You can consider Aryn Leener, Tol Braga, Jacen Solo, Jaric Kaedan and Kao Cen Darach for this list.


Well, Dooku have his low moments as well.

Katarn was part of a Strike Team and that entire Team couldn't stop Ceadus. In addition, I don't think that Count Dooku could hold up against Luke like Caedus did, reckless or not.


See above

Marek is technically more of a jedi than Luke. He's had more jedi training.

I think Dooku would do reasonably well in sabers against Luke. I mean he was the greatest Makashi practicioner to ever live, he outfenced up to 4 duelists at one point, and gave Yoda a very good fight.

Plus he was able to block a LOT of Zonakin's strikes before being disarmed and beheaded. And Zonakin is arguably the better saber duelist than Luke.

Luke is stronger than Yoda. Luke's fairly inconsistent, but when he's on a good day, he's incredible.

Dooku is better than Caedus. I'm sorry. Dooku has an amazing track record. Caedus doesn't.

Kao Cen Darach for this list? LOL
Jacen Solo is a Sith
Gimme some feats for Kaedan and Aryn, because all the former can do is resist the Dread Master's influence and the latter just has Force Empathy.
Dunno much about Braga either.

Top Ten Sith:
1. Darth Sidious
2. Darth Plagueis
3. The Sith Emperor
4. Darth Caedus
5. Dath Bane
6. Darth Krayt
7. Exar Kun
8. Darth Vader
9. Darth Malgus
10. Emperor's Wrath

Top Ten Jedi:
1. Luke Skywalker
2. Yoda
3. Revan
4. Hero of Tython
5. Mace Windu
6. Anakin Skywalker
7. Satele Shan
8. Barsen'thor
9. Galen Marek
10. Obi-Wan Kenobi

NOTE: Not including Darth Nihilus or Dread Masters

Actually no, raise Anakin up way higher for mine ^

"This is Anakin Skywalker:
The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace. He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it."
-Revenge of the Sith Novel

I doubt Anakin>Yoda, except in raw power.

Nihilus should be number one on the sith list if this is a measurement of power and force abilities. However if this is a measurement of galactic influence, than Sidious and Vitate are rightfully both #1/#2.

Nihilus has the most powerful TK in the mythos, as well as a a planetary drain that has no counter. Additionally Nihilus has no physical body and thus is much harder to harm physicall, such as with sabers and physical combat.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Actually no, raise Anakin up way higher for mine ^

"This is Anakin Skywalker:
The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace. He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it."
-Revenge of the Sith Novel

So C-canon is more binding than later evidence which demonstrates better Force use and saber use?

I never said Anakin>Yoda or the Hero...what I mean't was to put Anakin above Master Windu.




I never said he wasn't...I didn't include him on PURPOSE

Honestly that book is predicated on hyperbole.

Going to put this in tiers. My list is based purely off of combat abilities. I am not going to be including Darth Nihilus or Darth Sion for reasons I will explain later.

Sith:

Tier 1:

-Darth Sidious
-Darth Plagueis
-Darth Bane (Orbalisk)

Tier 2:

-Darth Caedus
-Lord Vitiate
-Darth Vader
-Lord Exar Kun
-Darth Tenebrous
-Darth Krayt
-Darth Malgus
-Darth Tyranus

Tier 3:

-Darth Nox (Should he be tier 2? I might just move him)
-Darth Bane
-Darth Maul
-Lord Karness Muur
-Darth Traya
-Lord Freedon Nadd

I'll to Jedi later.

Originally posted by Q99
Quite arguable (as evidenced by the last Malgus/Krayt thread).
In the same thread, no counterargument have been provided that can establish that Krayt is a match for Malgus.

Do I think Malgus is more powerful? TBH, yes I do. Do I think Krayt can give him a very good fight, as he would almost any sith? Yes.

Originally posted by XRKun
Marek is technically more of a jedi than Luke. He's had more jedi training.
Really? Marek became a Grand Master of the Jedi Order?

Originally posted by XRKun
I think Dooku would do reasonably well in sabers against Luke. I mean he was the greatest Makashi practicioner to ever live, he outfenced up to 4 duelists at one point, and gave Yoda a very good fight.
Luke (prime) would utterly destroy Count Dooku in single combat. Dooku benefitted from passivity of Yoda, Luke wouldn't be so kind.

Also, what confirms that Dooku is the greatest practitioner of Form II to ever live? Even if he is, he can still loose to experts of other Forms if he doesn't have advantage in Force Mastery aspects.

Originally posted by XRKun
Plus he was able to block a LOT of Zonakin's strikes before being disarmed and beheaded. And Zonakin is arguably the better saber duelist than Luke.

Luke is stronger than Yoda. Luke's fairly inconsistent, but when he's on a good day, he's incredible.
This whole "zonakin" thing is blown out of proportion.

Originally posted by XRKun
Dooku is better than Caedus. I'm sorry. Dooku has an amazing track record. Caedus doesn't.
I think that you have no idea how powerful Luke became after the battle of endor.

Originally posted by XRKun
Kao Cen Darach for this list? LOL
He have demonstrated more skill and power then majority of the Jedi in the mythos in just one footage.

Originally posted by XRKun
Jacen Solo is a Sith
Jacen Solo wasn't a Jedi?

Originally posted by XRKun
Gimme some feats for Kaedan and Aryn, because all the former can do is resist the Dread Master's influence and the latter just has Force Empathy.
Jaric Kaedan is among the elites of the Jedi Order. Learn more about him from here: http://www.torhead.com/codex/1TMLD1N/master-jaric-kaedan

Also, you think that capture of Dread Masters is not a big deal? (This is among the best feats in the mythos)

As far as Aryn Leener is concerned, she put up a very good fight against Malgus which is remarkable display of power and skill. Leener have killed two Sith Lords before without much issue (Neph can offer useful information in this regard). She is among the Jedi's finest.

Originally posted by XRKun
Dunno much about Braga either.
Braga is among the most powerful Jedi of the Order. He once fought a Dark Council member for 3 days and converted him to light.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Going to put this in tiers. My list is based purely off of combat abilities. I am not going to be including Darth Nihilus or Darth Sion for reasons I will explain later.

Sith:

Tier 1:

-Darth Sidious
-Darth Plagueis
-Darth Bane (Orbalisk)

Tier 2:

-Darth Caedus
-Lord Vitiate
-Darth Vader
-Lord Exar Kun
-Darth Tenebrous
-Darth Krayt
-Darth Malgus
-Darth Tyranus

Tier 3:

-Darth Nox (Should he be tier 2? I might just move him)
-Darth Bane
-Darth Maul
-Lord Karness Muur
-Darth Traya
-Lord Freedon Nadd

I'll to Jedi later.
This is better approach to rank Force-users but I am surprised by your sheer level of underestimation of Vitiate.

Vitiate would have punked the Jedi Strike Team - which put up a good fight against (Orbalisk) Bane - without much issue. In-fact, Vitiate would have eaten (Orbalisk) Bane alive without much issue. Vitiate have exterminated entire Councils of powerful Sith Lords with his powers.

I have told you before that you shouldn't rank Bane so high. Also, Plagueis isn't TIER 1 material either.

He was, but he was strongest as a Sith.

As a Jedi, there were multiple of the time on a level with him, I'd say.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
In the same thread, no counterargument have been provided that can establish that Krayt is a match for Malgus.

The thread had a lot of argument in it, after all, with lots of examples posted on both sides. You *disagreeing* with the examples doesn't mean people didn't have them, and it's disingenuous to say otherwise.


People provided examples of Krayt fighting foes with higher TK feats, of Krayt's impressive dueling record, his arsenal of powers, force knowledge both gleened from knowledge accumulated from past eras and new techniques pioneered by him.

Myself aside, Nephthys posted a lot of counter-arguments.


You may feel that TOR era people are inherently stronger, but I don't think that's how the actual feats posted in the thread balanced out, and whatever your opinion of the outcome arguments for Krayt existed in spades.

Krayt is a match for Malgus imo.

Originally posted by Q99
The thread had a lot of argument in it, after all, with lots of examples posted on both sides. You *disagreeing* with the examples doesn't mean people didn't have them, and it's disingenuous to say otherwise.


People provided examples of Krayt fighting foes with higher TK feats, of Krayt's impressive dueling record, his arsenal of powers, force knowledge both gleened from knowledge accumulated from past eras and new techniques pioneered by him.

Myself aside, Nephthys posted a lot of counter-arguments.


You may feel that TOR era people are inherently stronger, but I don't think that's how the actual feats posted in the thread balanced out, and whatever your opinion of the outcome arguments for Krayt existed in spades.
Much of that thread is about "this and that" and nothing in it establishes that Krayt is a match for Darth Malgus. I admit that I got caught up in the whole "quality of Sith" debate in that thread and the comparative analysis got overshadowed in this manner.

If you are so sure of Krayt's supremacy then create another thread about Krayt and list down all of his feats in it. I will rip apart all of your arguments in this comparative analysis, I assure you.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Krayt is a match for Malgus imo.
He isn't.

Also, expect my response to one of your arguments in the referred thread soon.

Only Sith!!

1.Marka Ragnos
2.Naga Sadow
3.Ludo Kressh
4.Freedon Nadd
5.Lord Vitiate
6.Darth Nihilus
7.Darth Traya
8.Darth Bane
9.Darth Sion
10.Darth Revan
11.Darth Zannah
12.Darth Malak
13.Exar Kun
14.Simus
15.Darth Malgus

You put a head in a jar on your list...?

Much of that thread is about "this and that" and nothing in it establishes that Krayt is a match for Darth Malgus.

I quite disagree, and I could easily say the same thing about your arguments for Malgus.

Asserting the other side is less is not the same as proving it.



The old thread is still there, and if you failed to rip them apart last time, why would next time be any different?

Disagreeing is not the same as ripping apart. Malgus does not have the TK feats of some Legacy era characters that Krayt's fought. Krayt has very good saber feats. Etc. etc..

I think the two of them would be a pretty good fight, but the Malgus superiority you claim is something that, whether or not you believe Malgus to be true, is absurd to claim there aren't opposing arguments to. You weigh your arguments more heavily, fine, but don't pretend the Krayt arguments aren't there.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is better approach to rank Force-users but I am surprised by your sheer level of underestimation of Vitiate.

Vitiate would have punked the Jedi Strike Team - which put up a good fight against (Orbalisk) Bane - without much issue. In-fact, Vitiate would have eaten (Orbalisk) Bane alive without much issue. Vitiate have exterminated entire Councils of powerful Sith Lords with his powers.

I have told you before that you shouldn't rank Bane so high. Also, Plagueis isn't TIER 1 material either.

I've played around with Vitiate's ranking for a long time now, and my decision of his combat ranking isn't really unsupported.

He punked the Jedi Strike team through the use of Force Storm. The Force Storm is an AoE power--An entire radius is attacked with the same level of power. Tol Bragga alone would have lasted no shorter against Vitiate's FLS than with the strike team with him. My verdict on this is that a FLS can be stopped by a singular opponent of high power much more efficiently than a group of mediocre Jedi Knights. The number of opponents becomes meaningless before Force Storm. This is also my explanation as to how the Hero of Tython in Act 3 was able to defeat Vitiate and not get crushed by the Force Storm like he did in Act 2, even though he had 3 Jedi Masters with him. And I rest my case by saying that someone like Orbalisk Bane or Darth Caedus could likely stop it.

RoT Darth Bane is so high because he has Force Feats that are on par with Vitiate's non-ritualistic Force Feats, and yet has far superior lightsaber and speed showings. I'm doubtless that RoT Bane is superior to the Hero of Tython.

Plagueis himself is extremely powerful. He's atomized armored Maladian Assassins with Force Waves, incinerated people with Force Lightning, was fast enough to appear like he was a streak of lightning, was too fast for a droid that could track blaster bolts to see, and has the skill feat of defeated Venamis while largely disadvantaged. On top of this he can stun his organs and use midichlorian manipulation to survive fatal injuries and continue on fighting. It is my personal belief that he is in fact tier 1 material.

Originally posted by Ragnosfan1998
Only Sith!!

1.Marka Ragnos
2.Naga Sadow
3.Ludo Kressh
4.Freedon Nadd
5.Lord Vitiate
6.Darth Nihilus
7.Darth Traya
8.Darth Bane
9.Darth Sion
10.Darth Revan
11.Darth Zannah
12.Darth Malak
13.Exar Kun
14.Simus
15.Darth Malgus

Bane, Vitiate, Kun, and Nihilus would MAUL Ragnos, Nadd, Traya, Sion, Revan, Malak, Sadow, and Kressh.

Originally posted by Q99
I quite disagree, and I could easily say the same thing about your arguments for Malgus.

Asserting the other side is less is not the same as proving it.
Malgus have:

1. more impressive combat record.
2. been recognized as one of the most powerful dark side practitioners in history by (mighty) Sidious.
3. can summon powers that make him seemingly unstoppable.
4. more impressive feats.

While Krayt have some impressive talents and feats as well, he isn't as good as you suggest him to be. Krayt's esoteric capabilities make him dangerous like he can recover from seemingly death like situations until his body is destroyed but this isn't beneficial capability in lets say a versus scenario.

Originally posted by Q99
The old thread is still there, and if you failed to rip them apart last time, why would next time be any different?

Disagreeing is not the same as ripping apart. Malgus does not have the TK feats of some Legacy era characters that Krayt's fought. Krayt has very good saber feats. Etc. etc..
Really?

Fans have history of going out of their way to vouch for their favorites in versus debates. This doesn't makes their position credible just like yours often is (not) in debates featuring Krayt.

Malgus haven't collapsed buildings either but he destroyed an individual who did. How does this analogy sounds to you? Or you would continue to harp around supposed supremacy of your favorites without merit?

Originally posted by Q99
I think the two of them would be a pretty good fight, but the Malgus superiority you claim is something that, whether or not you believe Malgus to be true, is absurd to claim there aren't opposing arguments to. You weigh your arguments more heavily, fine, but don't pretend the Krayt arguments aren't there.
Well, Krayt may put up a decent fight against Malgus but would be eventually outmatched.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I've played around with Vitiate's ranking for a long time now, and my decision of his combat ranking isn't really unsupported.
And you haven't figured out yet that how powerful and dominating he is.

Maybe you need to check this thread to improve your knowledge: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t587136.html

Originally posted by NewGuy01
He punked the Jedi Strike team through the use of Force Storm. The Force Storm is an AoE power--An entire radius is attacked with the same level of power. Tol Bragga alone would have lasted no shorter against Vitiate's FLS than with the strike team with him.
I admit, this is an excellent point. However, see below.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
My verdict on this is that a FLS can be stopped by a singular opponent of high power much more efficiently than a group of mediocre Jedi Knights.
I disagree with this assessment.

The Jedi Strike Team which Vitiate defeated was an extremely capable one, featuring some of the Order's most powerful and proven Jedi.

You should give credit to Vitiate for possessing the capability to prevent an entire Strike Team (of aforementioned caliber) to advance and gain on him. Vitiate actually disarmed that entire Strike Team with his powers, which I don't think is possible for majority of Force-users in the mythos. Even Sidious haven't demonstrated this level of capability, outside his FS (W) talent.


Originally posted by NewGuy01
The number of opponents becomes meaningless before Force Storm. This is also my explanation as to how the Hero of Tython in Act 3 was able to defeat Vitiate and not get crushed by the Force Storm like he did in Act 2, even though he had 3 Jedi Masters with him. And I rest my case by saying that someone like Orbalisk Bane or Darth Caedus could likely stop it.
Vitiate was not in the position to maximize his powers during his second clash with HoT because he was interrupted from the most ambitious ritual - to have been ever attempted - and this seemingly backfired on him.

And no, Bane and Caedus do not stand a chance against Vitiate. Vitiate would utterly destroy either one with his powers or even both put together.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
RoT Darth Bane is so high because he has Force Feats that are on par with Vitiate's non-ritualistic Force Feats, and yet has far superior lightsaber and speed showings. I'm doubtless that RoT Bane is superior to the Hero of Tython.
You are mistaken:

Vitiate is so powerful and well-versed in the ways of the Force that he doesn't needs a lightsaber to defeat or punk potential adversaries. He have felled expert swordsmen without difficulty.

As far as Force feats are concerned:-

- At the age of 10, Vitiate punked the most powerful Sith Lord of his homeworld by severing his connection with the Force (a dark variant of Sever Force talent) and destroying his mind with his telepathic abilities.

- Vitiate acquired absolute mastery of telepathic abilities; he could instill fear, mentally dominate, produce illusions/apparitions, possess and even destroy the minds of his targets. He went as far as to create "alternate dark personas" of thousands of other Force-users, triggering them from time to time to serve him (Children).

- Vitiate acquired absolute mastery of Force Drain talent; he could consume life-forces of other beings from even light-year distances. He siphoned energies of countless individuals to fuel his power.

- Vitiate acquired absolute mastery of unleashing (offensive) energies in purest forms of the dark side; he unleashed an FLS of this caliber on Revan (This FLS would have eaten Revan alive, if T3-M4 had not stopped Vitiate on time). He could also unleash Force blasts of purest dark side energies with bare hands.

- Vitiate acquired absolute mastery of telekinetic applications; he could perform telekinetic actions without gestures (nearly atomized T3-M4; prevented Scourge from striking Revan with his lightsaber; collapsed structures). Furthermore, he could conjure up Force waves, break bones, shatter organs and even atomize biota with his telekinetic abilities.

- Vitiate once destroyed an entire Dark Council with a mysterious application; this application swiftly killed/incapacitated all Dark Council members simultaneously.

- Vitiate acquired highest degree of immortality; could shift his essence from body to body (Essence Transfer) and permanently prolonged the existence of his original body, preventing its decay and destruction (Midichlorian manipulation). Vitiate was close to acquiring omnipotence when he was stopped.

I am sure that Vitiate acquired lot of other talents; he even altered the atmosphere and environment of Dromund Kaas on planetary scale.

---

And no! Bane isn't as good as Hero of Tython is.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Plagueis himself is extremely powerful. He's atomized armored Maladian Assassins with Force Waves,
Correction: all but atomized.

Vitiate can actually atomize biota, evident from what he did to T3-M4 (an heavily customized droid).

Originally posted by NewGuy01
incinerated people with Force Lightning,
Vitiate's servants could do this. He (himself) can utterly destroy even the most powerful individuals with his Force lightning, he is this damn potent.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
was fast enough to appear like he was a streak of lightning,
Gifted Force-users are known to react and move lightning fast.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
was too fast for a droid that could track blaster bolts to see, and has the skill feat of defeated Venamis while largely disadvantaged.
Droids have excellent tracking capabilities in the mythos but they cannot react so fast. Venamis isn't such a big deal.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
On top of this he can stun his organs and use midichlorian manipulation to survive fatal injuries and continue on fighting. It is my personal belief that he is in fact tier 1 material.
Don't get me wrong, I admire Plagueis and regard him as one of the most powerful Sith Lords in the mythos. However, I don't think that he is in the league of Vitiate.

Top Ten Sith:
1. Darth Sidious- ROTS and above
2. Darth Plagueis "Plagueis was the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived. But could he be the only one who never died?"
3. Vitiate
4. Nihilus
5. Exar Kun
6. Darth Malgus/Darth Tyranus/ Darth Krayt
9. Darth Bane
10. Darth Caedus

Jedi:
1. Luke Skywalker
2. Yoda
3. Anakin Skywalker (Yeah I said it. He's got the accolades to back them as well)
4. Mace Windu
5. Barsen'thor
6. Revan
7. Galen Marek
8. Jedi Dooku
9. Nomi Sunrider
10. Satele Shan

Someone needs to make a Plagueis and a Dooku respect thread, because they are the characters that sorely need it.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Top Ten Sith:
1. Darth Sidious- ROTS and above
2. Darth Plagueis "Plagueis was the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived. But could he be the only one who never died?"
3. Vitiate
4. Nihilus
5. Exar Kun
6. Darth Malgus/Darth Tyranus/ Darth Krayt
9. Darth Bane
10. Darth Caedus

Jedi:
1. Luke Skywalker
2. Yoda
3. Anakin Skywalker (Yeah I said it. He's got the accolades to back them as well)
4. Mace Windu
5. Barsen'thor
6. Revan
7. Galen Marek
8. Jedi Dooku
9. Nomi Sunrider
10. Satele Shan

Someone needs to make a Plagueis and a Dooku respect thread, because they are the characters that sorely need it.

IMO (because of Neph's consistenty strong arguments though somewhat biased) Bane is more powerful than Kun. And IMO, Marek is destructive as heck. He would beat Revan IMO. And Sunrider and Shan were more powerful in the Force than Jedi Dooku (Jedi Dooku was considerably weaker than Sith Dooku anyway).

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/silver2467/blog/darth-plagueismagister-hego-damask-respect-thread/83363/

Thanks XRKun. Yeah, I'm really not sure why you're putting Anakin above Windu, Revan, the Barsen'thor and Marek, Mizu. All of them are more powerful than he is (in actual ability). And indeed, as far as I know Jedi Dooku is a virtual unknown.

I'm assuming he is based on this little guy:

"This is Anakin Skywalker:
The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace. He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it."
-Revenge of the Sith Novel

...and the thousands (Yes, atleast thousands) of other accolades Anakin has got over the years.

As someone said, that novel is 90% hyperbole and 20% grandiose statements. Plus:

-He is the most powerful Jedi of his generation, which doesn't say much when his biggest rival in that regard is... Kenobi? A generation is only about 20 years.
-He is the most powerful Jedi of any generation depending on what we're talking about. Mizu still puts Yoda above him, so I doubt he's taking that quote literally.
-As above, all those other things don't put him above the rest on the list.
-As I recall that statement is from Anakins own perspective.

The same could be said for Kenobi, yet I don't see him on the list.

Of course, Anakin IS the Chosen One. His actual ability though, is stil below the ones I mentioned.

Originally posted by Nephthys

-He is the most powerful Jedi of any generation depending on what we're talking about. Mizu still puts Yoda above him, so I doubt he's taking that quote literally.


The key word was "perhaps". That at least makes him comparable to Yoda, even though Yoda is still numero uno.



Originally posted by Nephthys
-As I recall that statement is from Anakins own perspective.

I don't think it was judging from the "This is Obi-Wan Kenobi," and "This is Count Dooku," passages.
But in any case he was also "arguably" the most powerful Jedi from Mace's perspective as well. And a couple of the council members actually thought he was the best person to challenge Sidious.

Anakin is in no way comparable to Yoda.

Ok, conceded on the second point. I remembered wrong. Those council members are wrong though. They were likely only going off of the prophecy that he'd bring balance to the Force.

Indeed the Council is all hung up on the Prophecy. Anakin's latent powers were great but his actual realized powers were much lower. Otherwise, everyone else would be a stain on the ground. We've seen Force users do stuff with the Force approaching broken, yet Anakin just displays some TK and aggressive saber usage. His actual knowledge of the Force is inferior to Keonbi's.

Also, lol at his "immeasurable power" attributed to Qui-Gon Jinn. In the film, he gives an exact midi-chlorian count. That's the definition of measurable right there.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Those council members are wrong though. They were likely only going off of the prophecy that he'd bring balance to the Force.

The council members were all referring to Skywalkers power. One was going by how he defeated Dooku, and Windu outright uses the word power.