The Lords of Chaos & Order Vs Marvel's Skyfather's

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Golgo13
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/LOAC_zps1cb5fe04.jpg

vs

Ones pictured:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/MSK_zps9cb8688e.jpg

operator616
Lords of chaos/order should take this fairly easily, imo.

Lords of Order battle with the Lords of Chaos determines the fate of entire realities and dimensions (who's who v2 #10):

http://i.imgur.com/HmAM5Rf.jpg?1

That was confirmed in the events of Dr Fate v2 (ill post the necessary scans if needed). We also see that an explosion of Chaos/Order created universes (plural) in Dr Fate v2 #6:

http://i.imgur.com/fqW5ZzZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0cAoEzr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zAJVUTB.jpg

Their multiversal power was also confirmed in DC Heroes: Atlas of DCU guidebook, but it's more than hundred pages so i can't find the particular statement where this is mentioned, i remember reading it though.

Anyway, all lords of chaos + lords of order are multiversal, so they should win, without a doubt against the skyfathers.

Cogito
Skyfathers

Edit: ^ Look, that's nice and all, but it doesn't really mean anything. Nabu was the most powerful Lord of Order, and his best is (imo) below Odin. He's good and all, but he's not really universal, let alone multiversal.

Golgo13
Originally posted by Cogito
Skyfathers

Edit: ^ Look, that's nice and all, but it doesn't really mean anything. Nabu was the most powerful Lord of Order, and his best is (imo) below Odin. He's good and all, but he's not really universal, let alone multiversal.

Don't forget Fate (Who is overall more impressive than Nabu) and Kismet. Not to mention the beings that warped reality. Can't think of their names.

operator616
Originally posted by Cogito
Skyfathers

Edit: ^ Look, that's nice and all, but it doesn't really mean anything. Nabu was the most powerful Lord of Order, and his best is (imo) below Odin. He's good and all, but he's not really universal, let alone multiversal.

Doesn't really mean anything? it's on panel + bio ............. and + a guidebook, here it is, DC Heroes: Atlas of the DCU:

http://i.imgur.com/sbsPXEv.png?1

Confirming again that the struggle between chaos/order is universal at the very least.

i never said that they are individually multiversal, but collectively they are, no denying it.

If you deny on panel evidence + bio + guidebook, well then, i can't really help you.

Cogito
Originally posted by Golgo13
Don't forget Fate (Who is overall more impressive than Nabu) and Kismet. Not to mention the beings that warped reality. Can't think of their names.

I'm sorry, you bring up Lords of Order and Chaos and I go to the big ones -- the ones who actually have some feats -- Nabu, Shazam, and Mordru. Their best feats include things like pocket dimension creation and the like, but I don't think that's out of the range of the Skyfathers. On the average end they're below Skyfather, being matched by teams like the JSA and LoSH. Ultimately I don't think those teams would seriously challenge high end Skyfathers.

I'm not going to get into Kismet because she's really ambiguous by definition, and has even more ambiguous feats.

Golgo13
Originally posted by Cogito
I'm sorry, you bring up Lords of Order and Chaos and I go to the big ones -- the ones who actually have some feats -- Nabu, Shazam, and Mordru. Their best feats include things like pocket dimension creation and the like, but I don't think that's out of the range of the Skyfathers. On the average end they're below Skyfather, being matched by teams like the JSA and LoSH. Ultimately I don't think those teams would seriously challenge high end Skyfathers.

I'm not going to get into Kismet because she's really ambiguous by definition, and has even more ambiguous feats.

Mordru, Fate, Nabu, SHAZAM, Kismet, Ynar all have good feats. That's just the top of my head. What Marvel Skyfathers (the ones listed) match those?

Cogito
Originally posted by operator616
Doesn't really mean anything? it's on panel + bio ............. and + a guidebook, here it is, DC Heroes: Atlas of the DCU:

http://i.imgur.com/sbsPXEv.png?1

Confirming again that the struggle between chaos/order is universal at the very least.

i never said that they are individually multiversal, but collectively they are, no denying it.

If you deny on panel evidence + bio + guidebook, well then, i can't really help you.

The conflict between Order and Chaos has always been shown as an eternal conflict that threatens reality -- that much is even stated in the first scan you provided. I'm not as impressed by potential destructive effects that may take forever to come about /shrug

Then your scan here doesn't really say anything. It says Chaos beat Order, and that effect would be felt in the next universal cycle. Nothing about that conflict directly ending the 3rd yuga.

As we saw in DoV, when the Spectre killed all of the Lords of Order and Chaos, there are rules and side effects of their existing that cause consequences. They play a vital role in creation (usually mentioned as destined or fated) and when one side or the other dominates the other it triggers the start of a new age.

operator616
^ Spectre didn't kill all of them, and he is above them, that was confirmed before DoV, which isn't supposed to diminish their status in any way.

Their conflict is eternal because chaos and order balance each other out, but when chaos gets the upper hand, then this happens (Dr fate v2 #10):

http://i.imgur.com/dZwoRU4.jpg

that aside, id like to know how the skyfathers handle Kismet, who as we saw in the Dominus storyline is Dominus' peer and he wants her status as the illuminator of All realities:

http://i.imgur.com/Mko8iOt.jpg

-----

same kismet (Lord of order) who can control the basic fabric of the universe: (JLA-Z #2):

http://i.imgur.com/JFDX8Ei.jpg


Same kismet who can warp reality to her wims (superman ultimate guide):

http://i.imgur.com/HCVgGWi.jpg?1

----

That's of course apart from the evidence already posted where chaos/order explosion creates entire universes.

Golgo13
Originally posted by operator616
^ Spectre didn't kill all of them, and he is above them, that was confirmed before DoV, which isn't supposed to diminish their status in any way.

Their conflict is eternal because chaos and order balance each other out, but when chaos gets the upper hand, then this happens (Dr fate v2 #10):

http://i.imgur.com/dZwoRU4.jpg

that aside, id like to know how the skyfathers handle Kismet, who as we saw in the Dominus storyline is Dominus' peer and he wants her status as the illuminator of All realities:

http://i.imgur.com/Mko8iOt.jpg

-----

same kismet (Lord of order) who can control the basic fabric of the universe: (JLA-Z #2):

http://i.imgur.com/JFDX8Ei.jpg


Same kismet who can warp reality to her wims (superman ultimate guide):

http://i.imgur.com/HCVgGWi.jpg?1

----

That's of course apart from the evidence already posted where chaos/order explosion creates entire universes.

Didn't Ynar warp reality with one other mystic?

Cogito
Originally posted by operator616
^ Spectre didn't kill all of them, and he is above them, that was confirmed before DoV, which isn't supposed to diminish their status in any way.
Spectre: "I've destroyed all the Lords of Order and Chaos, save you. You're the last surviving guardian of the Ninth Age of Magic."
Nabu: "And the most powerful"
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/th_Spectre-Nabu_zps04c9c256.jpg

So yes, he killed them. Several of their deaths were shown on panel, the rest were killed off panel. The point of my mentioning DoV was not to say that losing to the Spectre was a low feat (it isn't, of course), but merely supporting their relationship to the universe.


Originally posted by operator616
Their conflict is eternal because chaos and order balance each other out, but when chaos gets the upper hand, then this happens (Dr fate v2 #10):

http://i.imgur.com/dZwoRU4.jpg

This is supporting my point, that the Lords of Order and Chaos don't so much destroy reality as their balance is crucial to the universe's well-being.


Originally posted by operator616
that aside, id like to know how the skyfathers handle Kismet, who as we saw in the Dominus storyline is Dominus' peer and he wants her status as the illuminator of All realities:

http://i.imgur.com/Mko8iOt.jpg

-----

same kismet (Lord of order) who can control the basic fabric of the universe: (JLA-Z #2):

http://i.imgur.com/JFDX8Ei.jpg


Same kismet who can warp reality to her wims (superman ultimate guide):

http://i.imgur.com/HCVgGWi.jpg?1

----

That's of course apart from the evidence already posted where chaos/order explosion creates entire universes.

Other than handbooks, I don't know of any instances where Kismet has been referred to as a Lord of Order. When she was first introduced, she was basically DC's version of Eternity -- an abstract not a Lord of Order. Anyways, she's more hype than action.

beatboks
Originally posted by Golgo13
Didn't Ynar warp reality with one other mystic?

Yes with Vandeamon. Ynar being a Lord of Order and Vandeamon being a Lord of Chaos both of whom had grown tired of their eternal conflict and instead chose to serve their own self interests. Classic Fate also warped it back at the end of the tale ( part of the Immortal Dr fate mini).


Considering he had also not killed Mordru who was shown to be leaving the Rock of Eternity after making Shazam waist most of his prepared amassed power in fighting him when he escaped the rock obviously Nabu wasn't the only one not killed. Though I'd agree Nabu isn't Odin level the closest one of the Lords of order and Chaos who is IMO would be Mordru and only his 30th Century self. Even he isn't quite there



Depending on the tale there are some stories that also support the concept that the creation of the universe was due to their conflict and the balance that results. In one Story (unfortunately I can't remember the issue) Phantom Stranger stated that the Presence created them so that their conflict would result in life. In another ( V
Dr fate shortly after Inza Nelson took on the role of Fate we see the Lords of order referencing their role in the creation of life. Considering the number of different creation myths that have been played out within DC ( 4th world Omnibus, Rama Kushna's statements in early Deadman tales and several others) I've long held the view that the the energy discharged by the conflict between the two of them caused the God wave that in turn caused everything else. It's the easiest way of keeping ALL contradictory creation myths as canon

Considering the many low showings of Shazam, Shat-Ru, Nabu himself (though for the most part they were in a mortal shell which naturally restricts them) I can't see how anyone can say they would beat marvel Skyfathers. Not to mention there are a LOT less named Lords of order and Chaos with feats we can apply than there are Skyfathers.

Rage.Of.Olympus
I probably don't know every single Lord of Chaos & Order but from what I've seen of Nabu, Mordru and so on (Who are intended to be the most powerful AFAIK) the Skyfathers win. Odin is just too much. I'm assuming we aren't taking into account Supergod Hercules, King or Rune Thor, Dormammu and the rest.

abhilegend
Lords Of chaos and order win.

Cogito
Originally posted by beatboks
Considering he had also not killed Mordru who was shown to be leaving the Rock of Eternity after making Shazam waist most of his prepared amassed power in fighting him when he escaped the rock obviously Nabu wasn't the only one not killed. Though I'd agree Nabu isn't Odin level the closest one of the Lords of order and Chaos who is IMO would be Mordru and only his 30th Century self. Even he isn't quite there

Yeah, Mordru doesn't quite fit in with the Spectre's comments because we did see him leave the RoE alive, and it's his destiny to survive. Some unknown amount of time did pass between when the RoE scene happened and when Nabu confronted the Spectre though, so who knows what might have happened. Given that we saw multiple Lords killed on panel and we got statements that certain Lords were killed, I don't think there's any reason to disregard the statements by two dudes with a certain amount of cosmic awareness (even if one of them was in a poor mental state)

operator616
Originally posted by Cogito
Spectre: "I've destroyed all the Lords of Order and Chaos, save you. You're the last surviving guardian of the Ninth Age of Magic."
Nabu: "And the most powerful"
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/th_Spectre-Nabu_zps04c9c256.jpg

So yes, he killed them. Several of their deaths were shown on panel, the rest were killed off panel. The point of my mentioning DoV was not to say that losing to the Spectre was a low feat (it isn't, of course), but merely supporting their relationship to the universe.




This is supporting my point, that the Lords of Order and Chaos don't so much destroy reality as their balance is crucial to the universe's well-being.




Other than handbooks, I don't know of any instances where Kismet has been referred to as a Lord of Order. When she was first introduced, she was basically DC's version of Eternity -- an abstract not a Lord of Order. Anyways, she's more hype than action.

which is false, because Mordru survived it, and had appearances afterwards, Amythest survived as well, as shown in infinite Crisis, and there are other Lords of Order/Chaos who are possibly alive as well.


I don't see how that supports your point tbh, because what the scan tells us is: When Lords of Chaos gain the upper hand, chaos dominates the cosmos and ultimately all creation dies. Just so we're clear, all creation = all universes, according to what's been shown in Dr Fate. I have proof if needed.

Kismet, right from her very first appearance, was said to be associated with lords of chaos and order, though it's often stated that she oversees the pahtways to reality for both, but it's evident that she is on the side of order instead of chaos, simply due to the fact that she's good, unlike Dominus.

Also, It's been literally stated that if Kismet dies, then reality dies with her, in action comics #748:

http://i.imgur.com/khgpCxD.jpg?1

And this applies to all the lords, 1 example from DC comics presents #75, says that a lord of chaos called Chaon, who is necessary for the continuation of existence:

http://i.imgur.com/m5yHnxk.jpg?1

Much like Kismet.

We also have Mordru (at least in the 31st century) has showings that are well above anyone save for Odin, here are universal showings:

absorbs half (the other half went to Glorith) of Infinite Man's power, which gave him control over time and space (though he was later overwhelmed by the whole power) in LoSH v4 #60:

http://i.imgur.com/q2b7uJw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/C3QVd19.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Zgx5qP5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/E2hLlVB.jpg


And in the 31st century (Lo3W #5), he absorbed the magic of the whole 247 universe (through kinetix):

http://i.imgur.com/Oi7lTkp.jpg

---

And in Adventure comics #370, Mordru has the power to annihilate entire galaxies:

http://i.imgur.com/2gZ0Yzr.jpg

He's also handled the Legion/JLA, pre crisis, and post crisis as well. I have those too, so let me know.

Of course, Odin has that kind of showings, but Zeus and Vishnu (the other 2 most prominent skyfathers) don't, Vishnu doesn't have much appearances to begin with, and there's nothing noteworthy to say about him, Zeus has been consistently shown to be weak, ive posted this on another thread, here it is again:




I can post more low shoiwngs for the skyfathers.

Kismet > Odin, Zeus, and Vishnu.

Mordru > Zeus and Vishnu.

That's setting aside the other lords of chaos and order (like Phantom Stranger for one)

That's also setting aside the showing i provided at the beginning of the thread, where they collectively create universes.

So id really like to know how can the Skyfathers win.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Didn't Ynar warp reality with one other mystic?

Originally posted by beatboks
Yes with Vandeamon. Ynar being a Lord of Order and Vandeamon being a Lord of Chaos both of whom had grown tired of their eternal conflict and instead chose to serve their own self interests. Classic Fate also warped it back at the end of the tale ( part of the Immortal Dr fate mini).


Considering the number of different creation myths that have been played out within DC ( 4th world Omnibus, Rama Kushna's statements in early Deadman tales and several others) I've long held the view that the the energy discharged by the conflict between the two of them caused the God wave that in turn caused everything else. It's the easiest way of keeping ALL contradictory creation myths as canon

Considering the many low showings of Shazam, Shat-Ru, Nabu himself (though for the most part they were in a mortal shell which naturally restricts them) I can't see how anyone can say they would beat marvel Skyfathers. Not to mention there are a LOT less named Lords of order and Chaos with feats we can apply than there are Skyfathers.

Correct though I believe, that happened in a Flash comic.

There are many creation stories which had nothing to do with the godwave, and others that don't fit together at all, so it's impossible to fit them all together, though they mustn't be ignored either, several of them have even secondary evidence backing them up.

I disagree, the skyfathers have low showings as well, Odin is the only one who consistently operates on a level beyond many of the lords of chaos/order.

Cogito
^ Working some PC feats in there erm

Anyways, what we keep getting to is the balance between Lords of Order and Chaos being necessary. What happens when that balance is disrupted has no meaning with regards to their power specifically, just as universal destruction has no meaning with regards to Galactus if he dies.

Kismet is a lot of hype and no feats.

Glorificus
Skyfathers win.

beatboks
@operator yes it was from a Flash comic back up. The 85 mini series immortal Dr Fate reprinted the stories from Flash 305 to 310 ( or there a outs) it also had the tale of Fate vs Khalis and Fate vs Kotec and a retelling of his origin.

Golgo13
Originally posted by Glorificus
Skyfathers win.

HOW? Please explain some other skyfathers (SHOWN in the pic) that match the Lords of Chaos and Order.

Golgo13
Originally posted by operator616
which is false, because Mordru survived it, and had appearances afterwards, Amythest survived as well, as shown in infinite Crisis, and there are other Lords of Order/Chaos who are possibly alive as well.


I don't see how that supports your point tbh, because what the scan tells us is: When Lords of Chaos gain the upper hand, chaos dominates the cosmos and ultimately all creation dies. Just so we're clear, all creation = all universes, according to what's been shown in Dr Fate. I have proof if needed.

Kismet, right from her very first appearance, was said to be associated with lords of chaos and order, though it's often stated that she oversees the pahtways to reality for both, but it's evident that she is on the side of order instead of chaos, simply due to the fact that she's good, unlike Dominus.

Also, It's been literally stated that if Kismet dies, then reality dies with her, in action comics #748:

http://i.imgur.com/khgpCxD.jpg?1

And this applies to all the lords, 1 example from DC comics presents #75, says that a lord of chaos called Chaon, who is necessary for the continuation of existence:

http://i.imgur.com/m5yHnxk.jpg?1

Much like Kismet.

We also have Mordru (at least in the 31st century) has showings that are well above anyone save for Odin, here are universal showings:

absorbs half (the other half went to Glorith) of Infinite Man's power, which gave him control over time and space (though he was later overwhelmed by the whole power) in LoSH v4 #60:

http://i.imgur.com/q2b7uJw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/C3QVd19.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Zgx5qP5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/E2hLlVB.jpg


And in the 31st century (Lo3W #5), he absorbed the magic of the whole 247 universe (through kinetix):

http://i.imgur.com/Oi7lTkp.jpg

---

And in Adventure comics #370, Mordru has the power to annihilate entire galaxies:

http://i.imgur.com/2gZ0Yzr.jpg

He's also handled the Legion/JLA, pre crisis, and post crisis as well. I have those too, so let me know.

Of course, Odin has that kind of showings, but Zeus and Vishnu (the other 2 most prominent skyfathers) don't, Vishnu doesn't have much appearances to begin with, and there's nothing noteworthy to say about him, Zeus has been consistently shown to be weak, ive posted this on another thread, here it is again:




I can post more low shoiwngs for the skyfathers.

Kismet > Odin, Zeus, and Vishnu.

Mordru > Zeus and Vishnu.

That's setting aside the other lords of chaos and order (like Phantom Stranger for one)

That's also setting aside the showing i provided at the beginning of the thread, where they collectively create universes.

So id really like to know how can the Skyfathers win.





Correct though I believe, that happened in a Flash comic.

There are many creation stories which had nothing to do with the godwave, and others that don't fit together at all, so it's impossible to fit them all together, though they mustn't be ignored either, several of them have even secondary evidence backing them up.

I disagree, the skyfathers have low showings as well, Odin is the only one who consistently operates on a level beyond many of the lords of chaos/order.

Cool. Do you have the scans? Didn't Doctor Fate (merged) warp reality right back?

Golgo13
Don't forget that ONE of the agents of Order is a 5-D Imp.

operator616
Originally posted by Golgo13
Cool. Do you have the scans? Didn't Doctor Fate (merged) warp reality right back?

From Flash #312:

http://i.imgur.com/uJ4PlOz.jpg

And here the world is returned to normal by Fate:

http://i.imgur.com/qRce4DI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iacoio5.jpg

Golgo13
Originally posted by operator616
From Flash #312:

http://i.imgur.com/uJ4PlOz.jpg

And here the world is returned to normal by Fate:

http://i.imgur.com/qRce4DI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iacoio5.jpg

Awesome. Don't forget Amythest in her prime? An overlooked feat was she owned Mordru in a panel or 2. She was most uber.

Cogito
Originally posted by Golgo13
Don't forget that ONE of the agents of Order is a 5-D Imp.

What?

Golgo13
Originally posted by Cogito
What?

http://www.comicvine.com/mixyezpitelik/4005-60985/

Knight of Order.

operator616
Originally posted by Golgo13
Awesome. Don't forget Amythest in her prime? An overlooked feat was she owned Mordru in a panel or 2. She was most uber.

Yeah, though Mordru wasn't exactly in his prime, he was just beginning, in fact, and that was 20/21st century Mordru who is less impressive than 30/31st century version

Branlor Swift
So... feats from alternate characters, alternate futures, PC feats and a whole mess of statements are applicable to the Lords?

Originally posted by Golgo13
HOW? Please explain some other skyfathers (SHOWN in the pic) that match the Lords of Chaos and Order. So you purposefully made a spite thread again?

operator616
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
So... feats from alternate characters, alternate futures, PC feats and a whole mess of statements are applicable to the Lords?



I guess this was directed at me.

As long as the thread starter doesn't have the problem with using the future version of Mordru then yes, if not then ill back down.

I only posted 1 PC feat, disregard it if you like, the others are better, imo.

What specific statements are you referring to?

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by operator616
I guess this was directed at me.

As long as the thread starter doesn't have the problem with using the future version of Mordru then yes, if not then ill back down.

I only posted 1 PC feat, disregard it if you like, the others are better, imo.

What specific statements are you referring to? Why would alternate versions be applicable? The only reason that should apply here is if there is double versions of characters. Like if there are two Mordrus

How many statements did you use?

operator616
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Why would alternate versions be applicable? The only reason that should apply here is if there is double versions of characters. Like if there are two Mordrus

How many statements did you use?

I used him because this Mordru is the one associated with LoSH in the future, and he's been introduced before present Mordru, even post crisis.
There are actually 2 Mordrus, in JSA, Hourman confirmed that the present Mordru (the one in the 20th century back then) wasn't the one from the future (he didn't time travel back in time), meaning he was a different version.

I used several, point to me which ones you don't see as applicable and ill see what i can do (confirm them further)

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by operator616
I used him because this Mordru is the one associated with LoSH in the future, and he's been introduced before present Mordru, even post crisis.
There are actually 2 Mordrus, in JSA, Hourman confirmed that the present Mordru (the one in the 20th century back then) wasn't the one from the future (he didn't time travel back in time), meaning he was a different version.

I used several, point to me which ones you don't see as applicable and ill see what i can do (confirm them further)
OK, and both Mordru's are in this thread then? Because otherwise you're using the current lords, and then using a completely different character to fill in the slot of a character who should be getting used instead.

Then all of the statements

Golgo13
Originally posted by operator616
I used him because this Mordru is the one associated with LoSH in the future, and he's been introduced before present Mordru, even post crisis.
There are actually 2 Mordrus, in JSA, Hourman confirmed that the present Mordru (the one in the 20th century back then) wasn't the one from the future (he didn't time travel back in time), meaning he was a different version.

I used several, point to me which ones you don't see as applicable and ill see what i can do (confirm them further)

You can use whatever mordru you like. Whatever one that wkuld make a good battle.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Golgo13
You can use whatever mordru you like. Whatever one that wkuld make a good battle. Can I use any Skyfather?

Golgo13
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Can I use any Skyfather?

This was injtially the ones shown in the pic plus odin. Only the god type beings like zeus and odin.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Golgo13
This was injtially the ones shown in the pic plus odin. Only the god type beings like zeus and odin. But any version?

I mean, if we're supposed to bypass Post Crisis Mordru and pretend he's off doodling with his Etch a Sketch in favor of a more powerful one in a thread you think is spite...

Golgo13
Standard versions of all.

Branlor Swift
lol

Anyway, the Lords win.

Not because of statements mind you or the collective power of like 23 plus beings using "love" to create universes (wait, was that even the beings themselves that did that?), but because there's 3 actual "high level" Skyfathers (and Amethyst) on their side compared to Marvel's 2.

The rest of the Lords are pretty much featless. Same with the rest of the Skyfathers. Few exceptions on either side.

Kismet is garbage too.

quanchi112
Marvel sky fathers and rather easily. None of them from the dc side can compete with Odin.

Golgo13
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
lol

Anyway, the Lords win.

Not because of statements mind you or the collective power of like 23 plus beings using "love" to create universes (wait, was that even the beings themselves that did that?), but because there's 3 actual "high level" Skyfathers (and Amethyst) on their side compared to Marvel's 2.

The rest of the Lords are pretty much featless. Same with the rest of the Skyfathers. Few exceptions on either side.

Kismet is garbage too.

She may not have a lot of feats, but her implied power is more than your average Marvel skyfather. stick out tongue

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Golgo13
She may not have a lot of feats, but her implied power is more than your average Marvel skyfather. stick out tongue Good. Odin is omnipotent

Golgo13
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Good. Odin is omnipotent

Impotent, you mean? big grin

beatboks
Originally posted by Golgo13
Awesome. Don't forget Amythest in her prime? An overlooked feat was she owned Mordru in a panel or 2. She was most uber.

Ohh FFS, that was shortly after mordu had taken on the body of the Gem World wizard and absorbed a soul. It was one of his first (chronological not in comics) appearances. Mordru's power grows over time, he absorbs the power of those he defeats. Almost all of Mordru's best showings in the 20th century are after he has absorbed the power of several Lords of Order and chaos. Most of Mordu's GOOD feats are actually feats for the power of several LOO/C. His greatest feats are in the 30th century after he has absorbed much of the power of sorcerers world.



Sorry??? In JSA hourman one million told the JSAers there was no part of his time line that was lower in power (which of course was wrong because in the Amethyst series he was). However hector showed his future as clearly the Mordru of the thirtieth century fighting the LoSH when he goaded him at not looking at his fate when he took possession of Nabu's artifacts. In fact the image we saw of that future was a cameo of the pre crisis JLA/JSA/ LoSH cross over (the one where Mordru was searching the Bell, the jar and the Wheel)

operator616
^ Are you referring to the JSA Prince of Darkness arc? in which case, yeah, we see Mordru's future, doesn't change the fact that Mordru wasn't the same one in the present, as explained in the same series, in JSA #3:

http://i.imgur.com/iDdig1O.jpg?1

"the Mordru we encountered is NOT from the future"

Which is what my point is.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

Then all of the statements

Upon rereading the thread i came to the realization that every statement has been backed up by actual showings, apart from the ones concerning Kismet (let me know if i missed something, though)

Kismet doesn't really have much feats, though imo, the implication was pretty clear regarding her status, she is the embodiment of reality (possibly even on a multiversal scale considering she can comprehend them).

Think you read the canon JLA/Avengers crossover, and she was in Eternity's league there.

Also what are the 3 "high level" Lords of Order you have in mind? Im curious to know.


While Odin has been called omnipotent/all powerful more times than i can count, it doesn't take away from the fact that it is a hyperbole .......... or maybe not, considering Marvel has levels of omnipotence/infinity, and has used terms such as "minor omnipotents".

I don't know about you, but a universal embodiment (at the very least) should be beyond Odin's level.

beatboks
Originally posted by operator616
^ Are you referring to the JSA Prince of Darkness arc? in which case, yeah, we see Mordru's future, doesn't change the fact that Mordru wasn't the same one in the present, as explained in the same series, in JSA #3:

http://i.imgur.com/iDdig1O.jpg?1

"the Mordru we encountered is NOT from the future"

Which is what my point is.




Yes I was referencing Prince of Darkness arc but also the issue and in fact scan you posted in this post.


You stated there are two different Mordru's



The very scan you posted says he's not form the future , that "he exists now in our present" it also says that "HE"S NOT DESTINED to menace the Legion for another thousand years". This isn't two different Mordru's at all or a different version . the Mordru who fights Legion is the same one who fights the JSA he's just a 1000 years older and more powerful for having had a 1000 more years to absorb and build power (which is my point).

Senor Cage
The Lords of Order can shatter reality. They are above Skyfather it seems. And to think Mordru is going to face these guys. Yikes!

https://i.imgur.com/Pmx6Kkg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Wjazjkn.jpg

MrMind
which skyfathers?

Senor Cage
These. Main ones like Zeus and Odin.

https://i.imgur.com/5qin693.jpg

Senor Cage
Vs

https://i.imgur.com/LHrjLkc.jpg

&

https://i.imgur.com/tW5CIcX.jpg

MrMind
The Lords of Order are enough to take this by themselves, they are multiversal in power

completely different level compare to the skyfathers

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