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Whether or not there will even be a connection is still under speculation, there is a good possibility that Palpatines existance, as a Sith Lord is never revealed and the threat of Sidious is dissolved when Palpatine makes his bid for power or when he tries to terminate the Jedi Order.

However, odds are, that because of the knowledge and reverance for the Emperors power in the Old Trilogy, and because of the mention of the Darth Sidious (both in Episode I when they are curious who the other Sith Lord was, and in Episode II when Dooku reveals there is a Sith Lord named Darth Sidious) has already occurred, there more then likely will be a connection made somewhere, if not by everyone, by Anakin at the very least.

Obviously Anakin Skywalker has to make the connection, because he is aware Palpatine is a Sith Lord during the Old Trilogy, but who else makes the connection? When do the Jedi pick up tents and start to head out? Before Palpatine is revealed to be a Sith Lord, or after? And when they do defect from the Republic, is it then that Palpatine goes after them or do they defect for those reasons?

I have a feeling that Obi-Wan Kenobi will make the connection, probably before Skywalker even gets a chance. I think by the start of Episode III there will be a growing concern among some (actually a minority) senators and systems of Palpatines extended term and his Emergency Powers. With the Clone Wars winding to a close, as we have already confirmed with Lucas' comments, there will be several individuals within the government and within the Jedi Order who will push for Palpatine to remove the Emergency Powers and stop the rule of marshal law, as there would be no need for it. Palpatine will find some way or excuse around it, and might even get support from the majority of the Senate.

Somewhere along the line we do need to see a complete transition between the Republic and the Empire, and I don't think Palpatine simply not removing the Emergency Powers will be the transition. This obvious transition could occur because the Jedi removal (in response to it) or it could occur because of other independent factors (causing the Jedi to remove).

Either way, somewhere along the line the Jedi probably become aware of Palpatine being Sidious. How do you think it will come?

It could be Dookus last dying words in hopes to make right with the Jedi Order. It could be part of another investigation that Obi-Wan partakes in, and he becomes aware of the very real threat before anyone else. It could be a relationship between Palpatine and another individual, which connects him to the Separatist Movement. It could be because the relationship between Dooku and Sidious becomes apparent to a Jedi.

I do believe a Jedi will uncover this and I believe the Jedi will more then likely be Kenobi, hence his awareness of the Emperors power in Episode III as indicated in his comments to Luke on Degobah in Episode VI (concerning separating the twins).

What do you think?

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Now tell me.. Has this been "Advanced" or discussed about in the Past in these forums ....

Not as far as I know. Best to ask a Moderator directly.

well nither of the EPIII mods are not on..

In that case go with your ideas and don't worry about them...until they show up.

Well, yeah, the idea of who works out that Palpatine is Sidious has been discussed before because it is a common source of discussion. But it has not been done for a while- not, I think, since AOTC came out, in fact.

Sadly AOTC is not GREATLY helpful...

Well, we know that Yoda and Obi-Wan know the Emperor is a Sith. We know that the powers of Vader and the Emperor are no great secret, much as their lackeys do not understand it. Hmmm.

I think one of the main questions is, is Sidious discovered, or does he purposely reveal himself at the right time?

I think that Sidious will be revealed as Palpatine by Anakin to Obi-Wan, possibly involving Anakins seduction to the Dark Side. Obi-wan could tell Yoda.

Ultimately though, Palpatine doesnt need anyone to know that he is a Sith and it will probably only be revealed to a very small number of characters. The Jedi at large don't even need to know, especially since there will be few left and fewer left in the future.

he doesn't even have to tell anyone except for maybe a select few. the trade federation didn't know in ep1 that sidious was palpatine. i don't remember the lines exactly but it was something like:

is this war legal?

I will make it legal.

letting us know that he has some power, but of course the TF is full of complete morons.

I'm sure anakin will know at some point or another, as will obi wan and yoda. buy why would sidious have to reveal to the entire galaxy? It would be better for him if everyone didn't know he was a sith lord, and he continued to manipulate the senate and possibly the jedi council undected, and therefore directly unchallenged. What i mean is, why would you reveal yourself to the jedi when they aren't sure who you are, what your intentions are, and how to fight you? So it would make no sense for him to reveal himself when the senate and the jedi are still
fairly strong.

Now if the senate and jedi have been disbanded or overthrown, it would make it different. Then it wouldn't matter if they knew who he was or what he was doing because there would be nothing they could do.

Even in the first trilogy, the majority of the public didn't know that he had sith powers. There were rumors sure, but they were just rumors. And didn't Han say something about the Force being an old myth or something along those lines? (sorry guys, i don't feel like busting out my star wars VHS tapes at the moment) This just shows that most people have either, not known that the emporer had these powers, or they had forgotten it completely. maybe it's both.

But anyways, it wouldn't be a good choice to reveal himself to everyone while the jedi council and senate is still strong. To anakin, it would be smart, since he is the one that is going to be seduced. And i'm sure from there obi-wan would be able to figure it out, as would yoda and maybe even windu, if he isn't dead by that time.

Because if he reveals himself the enemies of the Jedi will rally to his cause. Yoda and Windu fear such revelation.

ah...that's a good point. but who are the enemies of the jedi, other than the sith? the trade federation? any if they are enemies of the jedi, why would they trust a dark jedi?

from attack of the clones:


Yoda: "Joined the Dark Side Dooku has. Lies, deceit, creating mistrust are his ways now"

if that's what the dark side is all about, it would make more sense not to reveal himself and to lie, deceive, and create mistrust within the senate and jedi council and split them internally before revealing himself

maybe no one makes the connection and Sidious reveals himself.....as emperor.....Palpatine

Yoda and Windu made it clear that the Jedi have many potential enemies when they feared them multiplying. Sidious might reveal himself at the point it is politically wise to do so. Such a point could very like exist.

as when he declears himself emperor as Julie said

I agree with you, Julie

it WOULD be politically wise to do so when a schizm has already occured in the senate and the jedi council has been left in shambles.

From there, palpatine would be seen as the guy "who saved the republic" by restoring law and order, but gaining even more power.

Eventually, he would probably disband the senate, and the jedi by then are probably all destroyed.

it would be smartest to reveal himself

otherwise he would make himself look stupid.

Possibly my friend.

then the jedi would think they would be cool enough to out smart him.

Well, we know how many Jedi are left by the time he disbands the Senate, of course.

how do u think he killed so many. Death Star at the beginning of ep3?

i'm pretty sure it is gonna be mostly vader/anakin and the clone troopers.

some jedi was wiped out in the colosseum in ep2. and more will be killed in the clone war battles. that makes sidious's plan much easier.

im new here n probly wont post to often but i just thought u guys shud know how the connections is discovered if u dont know...

mace windu figures out that palpatine (sorry if its spelt wrong) is sideous and goes to confront him, anakin has already turned to the darkside and duels mace windu after he has talked to palpatine/sideous, thus resulting in anakin beheading mace windu.

i know other things coz i accidentally found the entire plot online, but i'll keep my mouth zipped unless u wanna know summat.

Didnt Dooku tell Obi-Wan that the Sith already controls the senate? I think this will ultimatley lead to Obi-Wan discovering the Truth. Possibly at the same time Anakin is seduced.

I think Mace will find out when its too late and he's being electrocuted....
And that's when Anakin finds out also. Well that would be cool at least.....

Yoda will figure it out and he'll tell Obi-Wan. But would Obi tell any non-Jedi?

yeah I was wondering will he stand up and say I am emperior palpatine and you can't do anything to defeat me.

Palpatine will wait and tip his hand at the last moment when its too late...
Mace probably questions something Palpatine does, then the old guy shows his true colors....

Remember: he's very clever.....

Very. That is perhaps the only msytery left in ROTS...

I'm starting to think that might be the way it goes: somethings not right, so Mace and some Jedi go and question the Supreme Chancellor about it.
He suddenly busts out some Force powers (probably the classic lightning), killing them with Anakin watching. Then he announces that the Jedi are planning to overthrow the gov't with their army and he must protect the Republic from them. That may not be it, but I think that's close....

Hmmm... that'd make Anakin very gullible... Then again, after that little scene with MAce in TPM, I can imagine him preferring Palpy's point of view. However, a sudden display of Jedi powers is quite suspicious.

Well, I said it was close....

That's my way out. If Palpatine suddenly reveals himself (so to speak), that would force (no pun intended) to choose a side right then and there...

With a baby on the way, who knows how his mind is working at that point...
He probably thinks what he does is right- he would have to....

I'd expect Palpy to manipulate Anakin to manouver him into position actually. Unless he's cornered. He does the same in ROTJ. Vader's out, can't fight anymore so only when he really has to and tehre's no one to do his dirty work for him, he'll use the Force.

Palpatine is a master manipulator.....he is probably found out by one of the Jedi ; but it would make sense for Mace to confront Palpatine with another Jedi to bring him into custody, then Anakin becoming involved......
Palpatine having Anakin under his influence now, pursudes Anakin to aid in the defeat of Mace.....
While all of that is going on, Yoda is enroute seeing more time is needed for Padme to get away with the twins.....

hhhummm.....

So why Mace?

Because it would explain his heroic death scene......remember he goes out in a BLAZE.....

this is what i have on this for now....
(possible spoilers below):






















obi wan is tracking grievous, and spies on him from a hidden location, where he witnesses a transmission from palpatine which reveals certain damning evidence....he then sends a message via hologram to the jedi council alerting them to the facts, after which mace decides those present should go and confront palpatine about what they have learned...

Yep, thats what I've read up also.

Interesting. Now that part of the movie is starting to make sense.....

Guiro,
I like that theory......I really do.....

if Sidious and Palpatine are the same why the OFFICIAL SITE have them with different heights?


http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/darthsidious/

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/palpatine/

He slouches when he's Palps lol

i know what it is

What?



Couldn't SW.com have done that just to throw off geeks?
The height difference, I mean.

saying that it was done purposely is what SW.com always do .

I would know what do those extra 5 cm come from ; the pointy hood upon sidious's head maybe........but it still doesnt alter his physical stature.

what say you ?

perhaps sidious' elephant man forhead.

it was sidious who was declared taller?

anyway the topic has shifted a bit, with the knowledge of mace vs palps.
so here's my 2 cents:

i see palps alone with anakin, sensing that obiwan has figured out his scheme. he realises that it's time to reveal himself to his would-be apprentice. at this point, he gives a speech to anakin about how the jedi are flawed and weak because they dont realize the true nature of the force. with the leadership of such a master force user, it would be possible to "end this distructive conflict, and bring order throughout the galaxy."

after which he would admit to anakin that he is a sith, and reveal his true self (my theory is that he masks his true appearence through the darkside) palpatine would then go on to feed anakin's forever starving ego with talks of his potential not being fully realized, and how he is the most gifted force user etc etc.

enter mace, who confronts palpatine. anakin is having a crisis, but then palpatine urges him to stay out of the fight, so that he may demonstrate the power of the darkside. after a intense battle, palpatine proves just that.

mace is wounded, but alive. palpatine then continues his selling to anakin, with talks of "he has held you back your whole life" "he is weak, and jealous of your power" "the jedi are weak, and will never end these conflicts" manipulative stuff of this nature, to dicredit the jedi, feed his ego, and play on anakins virtues at the same time.

"you must choose"

anakin walks toward palps...then hestates..then walks behind the wounded mace, who is standing up at this point. mace then looks relieved as he thinks anakin has chosen to stay with the jedi, as he sees anakin walk toward, around, and behind him....and then *wham* anakin thrusts his lightsaber through mace's back and out the front of his chest.

dark side

I'd still like it when Anakin does all the fighting with Mace, defending Palpy. After all, Palpy has always been nice and appreciatative to Anakin. Mace's first impression to Anakin was that he was a complete a$$ in TPM. Somehow it fits with Anakin taht way: the Jedi have always held him back. From his POV of course.

there is a shot of mace that looks very much like he is being bombarded by sith lightning....i think all have made good points....no sides for me yet....combination perhaps?.....

Maybe Anakin farted...

that makes a lot of sense to me, nice post

I doubt Anakin is good enough to beat Mace one-on-one, not if he loses to Obi-Wan. I feel Palpatine is going to light-up Mace and force Anakin to choose
sides. Palpatine must have some kind of information that sways Anakin, perhaps that History Lesson pic?

no joke, he DOES have that "damn thats nasty" look on his face.

thanks

ill admit i sprinkled it with some wishful thinking, with a dash of my own theory on palpatine. but other than that, i see this as the scenario

Still, even with diminished capacity in the Force, a Jedi would sense a Force user in the same room with them......

apparently not....

apart from yoda and mace giving him frequent funny looks like they're talking to someone who's name they've forgotten while suffering from a migraine in aotc.

"he's behind you!!"......

i too have this funny feeling that Mace with be struck down by Anakin posibly....but i think Palpatine will have more to do with Maces demise especially since we know that Palpatine now will use his lightsaber in ROTS.....

kadub, what you've said above matches with what i've heard....only thing is i see the lightsabres first appearance being for the yoda duel, and the mace scene to be mainly force lightning and tht kind of thing....then again apparently there are several jedi with mace when the confrontation takes place, so a sabre makes sense from that point of view....i have nothing concrete on the topic of sabre use in the scene, it's just how i visualise it, and that is admittedly influenced by the fact that i still have trouble imagining palpatine with a sabre at all at this point....basically though, you're right on the money from what i've heard...

Vader sensed Obi-Wan on the other side of the Death Star, don't forget.
They've been blinded in their ability to read into the future and sensing trouble out in the galaxy. But they clearly still can use the Force....


Anyone heard if Mace confronts Palpatine before he declares himself Emperor?
I'm kind of thinking its before that and he uses the attack as part of his anti-
Jedi legislation.....

i don't think they're still suffering from "force blindness" by the time of anh....

yeah, what you say about palpatine becoming emperor matches with what i believe....he convinces the senate that the jedi have turned to evil and are out to assasinate him with the intention to take power....

I like the idea of Palpatine using their actions against them that way.
Maybe he'll bring up the clones being ordered by a Jedi master....


Jedi still have the ability to use the Force on a personal level in Ep.2 which is why I have trouble with the darkside disguise theory. They would sense it.
I think Yoda might have gotten a hint of something in Palpatine's office.
Or he didn't like the way they were being ordered around....

yep that is true yoda turned and looked at him with sort of a grin and new something at that point like he could'nt trust him.

"she is a politician, and cannot be trusted"

an old jedi prejudice it would seem.

yoda could just have heard the BS sentiment in palps' voice and thought "huh another crooked politician"

Maybe Palpy just farted...

mace looks like he's struggling with some nagging feeling in some of the earlier scenes in aotc....i think they definitely sense something....i tend to think one of palpatine's powers is to cloud people's minds at will, it ties in with his other major power, which is the power of persuasion (convincing jar jar to make the right moves in the senate, anakin to turn from the jedi order etc.).....it's an intense dark side version of the jedi mind trick (these aren't the droids we're looking for).....when you think about it, up until now all we've really seen him do is hit vader with a bit of lightning when he was already incapacitated....he is supposed to be so powerful that even yoda is somewhat in awe, yet from what we know so far, he only possesses this one power.....so it makes sense for it to be an almost unbelievably strong talent that he wields....

LOL

why dont we wait for rammstein to make his 4th sock account and post a useless thread...then we can continue the fart debate

or he just farted....

The ultimate downer on any thread by now.

but then again...yoda makes the EXACT same face i make, when im in an elevator with someone else...and they fart...and i KNOW they farted...but they just stand there and act as if the fart just materialized out of thin air...so i give them that look like "yeah, your not fooling me pal"

so maybe queeq is right?

queeq is always right.

but what else are you supposed to do in an elevator situation?....shout "TOUCHDOWN!!!!!"?....

"how you like me now, m***af***a?"....

Errrr.... or you could fart.

i see what's happened here now....rammstein's flatulent business thread has been closed, so it's wafted over into one of the real threads....

you gotta keep this stuff contained.....

its a product of reading rammsteins threads...

we are all stupid now

what was once endless intelligent debates has turned into a bunch of fart jokes.

Farts do terrible things to the mind.

ok, lets all stop mixing carbs with protein,
and pray that ramm man never comes back...

then things should return to normal

queeq is always right.

Amen