Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

From most powerful/impressive, just overall best to least.


Twighlight sword
Ebony blade
Mjoinir
Excalibur
Hercules Mace
Ghost Rider's chains
Claw of Horus
God Slayer sword
Grasscutter sword
Magik's Soul sword
Aquaman's trident
Wonder Woman's lasso
Cap's shield
Frankenstein's sword

Cool thread man. Unfortunately, I dont know that much about all of these weapons though. But I will give it a quick shot. Based off what I do know.

Twilight Sword
Mjolnir
Excalibir/Ebony Blade (both grant immortality or something along those lines.

Grasscutter/godslayer/magics/franks sword/-these I dont know

Trident
Lasso
Shield

Should have added the Anihliblade from The God Butcher Arc, that would have been at the top.

Twighlight sword


Mjoinir
Ebony blade
Frankenstein's Sword
Soul Sword
Trident
Excalibur
Claw of Horus
GrassCutter
God Slayer sword
Herc's Mace
Wonder Woman's lasso
Ghost Rider's chain
Cap's shield

There you go.

Wolvie`s clawz > All

Sword of Superman>>>>>>>>All.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Sword of Superman>>>>>>>>All.

If he has any

Lasso's kinda hard to rank since it's a completely different type of hax compared to the others (sword of hephaestus may be easier). It's the only mental hax weapon on the list.

Though even used as just a direct weapon, it's done major damage to gods, easily slicing off the demon god Dgrth's hand.

Originally posted by byrdgang21
From most powerful/impressive, just overall best to least.


Twighlight sword
Ebony blade
Mjoinir
Excalibur
Hercules Mace
Ghost Rider's chains
Claw of Horus
God Slayer sword
Grasscutter sword
Magik's Soul sword
Aquaman's trident
Wonder Woman's lasso
Cap's shield
Frankenstein's sword

Where is the Starbrand?

Originally posted by Stoic
Where is the Starbrand?

I see the Starbrand as more of a artifact/power source than a weapon. Especially compared to the types of weapons on this list.

Twilight
Ebony Blade/Mjolnir
Magik's Soulsword
The Rest
Originally posted by Stoic
Where is the Starbrand?
It has yet to do anything anywhere near as impressive as the items listed in this thread. Remember it was retconned by Ellis and Hickman so it's past feats don't count.

Originally posted by zopzop
Twilight
Ebony Blade/Mjolnir
Magik's Soulsword
The Rest

It has yet to do anything anywhere near as impressive as the items listed in this thread. Remember it was retconned by Ellis and Hickman so it's past feats don't count.

The Rest
Magik' Soulsword
Mjolnir/Ebony Blade
Twilight

Twilight Sword
Mjolnir




The rest

Oh what about Hulks thunderclap?

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
The Rest
Magik' Soulsword
Mjolnir/Ebony Blade
Twilight
........

You started it.

===================================

Excalibur, is beyond the rest.
(a gesture with the sword has re-created an entire Universe,
and even easily killed with one stroke 3 major-Universal Concepts (Oblivion/Death/Entropy) who had merged as one)

Twilight, would come next at some point far below.

The rest.

^ Excalibur had serious reality altering properties

Originally posted by Golgo13
Sword of Superman>>>>>>>>All.

Makes you one with the universe, maybe even the God of the Universe or maybe even the supreme being (arguable).

no actual feats from what i remember though, ri9ght

Originally posted by Mr Master
===================================

Excalibur, is beyond the rest.
(a gesture with the sword has re-created an entire Universe,
and even easily killed with one stroke 3 major-Universal Concepts (Oblivion/Death/Entropy) who had merged as one)

Twilight, would come next at some point far below.

The rest.
I was purposely ignoring that overpowered sword Mr. M, thanks for bringing it up.

Originally posted by Warlord
no actual feats from what i remember though, ri9ght

Whe he was about to become one with the Universe (or become the Universe or God, I can't recall it properly) he rejected the power and God said something like "you did well my son". So no, no feats, just the implications Universe-supreme being, everything was possible.

Where's the Annihiblade?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Where's the Annihiblade?
No one cares..........

Originally posted by Mr Master
===================================

Excalibur, is beyond the rest.
(a gesture with the sword has re-created an entire Universe,
and even easily killed with one stroke 3 major-Universal Concepts (Oblivion/Death/Entropy) who had merged as one)

Twilight, would come next at some point far below.

The rest.


Are alternate reality showings usable?

Also, i agree that Excalibur comes 1st but i wouldn't place Twilight far below, seeing how it was able to recreate all reality in a matter of seconds in an Avengers story.


Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Makes you one with the universe, maybe even the God of the Universe or maybe even the supreme being (arguable).

it was going to expand his consciousness across the universe, yes.

But apart from statements it didn't do much, though they're most likely true considering that on panel we see the sword forged from the big bang itself, and we see the sword draws its power from the primeval matter.

Though i doubt it makes the user a supreme being.

Originally posted by operator616
Twilight....... was able to recreate all reality in a matter of seconds in an Avengers story.

It wasn't just the Twilight Sword though was it? There were other artifacts no? And the Scarlet Witch had a role in that too, if I'm remembering correctly.

Originally posted by operator616

Are alternate reality showings usable?
I'm referring to 616 Excalibur which was located in Reality-9777 killing Jude.

In another arc, 616 Brian remade an alternate universe but he also used prime Excalibur.

The events took place in alternate realities, true,
but the weapon was the same one on the list above.
Originally posted by operator616

Also, i agree that Excalibur comes 1st but i wouldn't place Twilight far below, seeing how it was able to recreate all reality in a matter of seconds in an Avengers story.
Excalibur was waved and an entire Timeline was re-created anew.

Twilight needed the amping of the Scarlet Witch's reality altering abilities,
the asgardian Norn Stones,
plus Morgan's own inherent magics.
Originally posted by operator616

it was going to expand his consciousness across the universe, yes.

But apart from statements it didn't do much, though they're most likely true considering that on panel we see the sword forged from the big bang itself, and we see the sword draws its power from the primeval matter.

Though i doubt it makes the user a supreme being.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Wolvie`s clawz > All

Originally posted by Mr Master


I'm referring to 616 Excalibur which was located in Reality-9777 killing Jude.
The events took place in alternate realities, true,
but the weapon was the same one on the list above.

In another arc, 616 Brian remade an alternate universe but he also used prime Excalibur.




I know that you're referring to the Earth X trilogy - Paradise X to be more specific - i just didn't realize that alternate reality showings are usable. And im still not.

Yeah, Excalibur v2 mini. Never said otherwise.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Twilight needed the amping of the Scarlet Witch's reality altering abilities,
the asgardian Norn Stones,
plus Morgan's own inherent magics.


Originally posted by zopzop
It wasn't just the Twilight Sword though was it? There were other artifacts no? And the Scarlet Witch had a role in that too, if I'm remembering correctly.

Not sure i follow. She needed Wanda's power to tap into the power of the sword:

http://i.imgur.com/4xfyaaR.jpg?1

On panel it's been mentioned many times. 1st issue says that Wanda's power merely bridges the gap between Morgan's power and the sword's (to be able to tap into its power)

http://i.imgur.com/eu1oSYx.jpg?1

2nd issue says the same thing:

http://i.imgur.com/O8D1yGN.jpg?1

10th issue (a recap) says the same:

http://i.imgur.com/sBtMcda.jpg?1


And the 3rd issue says that Scarlet Witch's powers is what allows her to wield the sword (to be able to tap into its power):

http://i.imgur.com/9g1QrkG.jpg?1

All the reality-warping was done by the sword.

The ranking of Aquaman's trident depends on if it's the post or pre flashpoint one. The Trident he had pre flashpoint was a gift from Poseidon to thank him for freeing him from Hades. That trident wasn't far behind mjilnor with similar power. It countered all magic, allowed magic itself, dimensional manipulation, plus complete control over water. The water control was so great Aq could cause earth quakes by affecting the pressure on tectonic plates and could form control fog, most or even condensation/water vapor.

If it's that version it's only a few spots behind mjilnor nu 52 version nearer the bottom.

Originally posted by zopzop
No one cares..........
Ure butthurt is showing.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Ure butthurt is showing.
:yawn:

Bucky's Luger > anything here.

Originally posted by operator616
I know that you're referring to the Earth X trilogy - Paradise X to be more specific - i just didn't realize that alternate reality showings are usable. And im still not.

Yeah, Excalibur v2 mini. Never said otherwise.




Not sure i follow. She needed Wanda's power to tap into the power of the sword:

http://i.imgur.com/4xfyaaR.jpg?1

On panel it's been mentioned many times. 1st issue says that Wanda's power merely bridges the gap between Morgan's power and the sword's (to be able to tap into its power)

http://i.imgur.com/eu1oSYx.jpg?1

2nd issue says the same thing:

http://i.imgur.com/O8D1yGN.jpg?1

10th issue (a recap) says the same:

http://i.imgur.com/sBtMcda.jpg?1


And the 3rd issue says that Scarlet Witch's powers is what allows her to wield the sword (to be able to tap into its power):

http://i.imgur.com/9g1QrkG.jpg?1

All the reality-warping was done by the sword.

The Twilight Sword was also powerful enough to warp reality across the Nine Realms in Avengers Prime:
http://s22.postimg.org/tuskteuz1/Avengers_Prime_5_Zone_019.jpghttp://s22.postimg.org/rri5lqv65/Avengers_Prime_5_Zone_020.jpghttp://s22.postimg.org/g3o3r7619/Avengers_Prime_5_Zone_021.jpg

I also remember it warping reality to defeat Ymir who was merging with Earth's dimension or something in the Avengers one-shot.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

The Twilight Sword was also powerful enough to warp reality across the Nine Realms in Avengers Prime:


That's what it seems like from those 3 scans, but I'd like to read that in full,
including prior issues and follow ups. So, all I need is this particular #,
I'll research the rest myself and return.

I remember people once trying to pin Odin as a universal power.
Then I flipped pages and noticed it was based on him shunting the full power of Twilight
into the "Sea of Space"
also known as "Asgard Space" (a pocket-realm)
It didn't even burn all of that, it was contained, but whateva.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

I also remember it warping reality to defeat Ymir who was
merging with Earth's dimension or something in the Avengers one-shot.
That was local, just to close the rift between dimensions.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's what it seems like from those 3 scans, but I'd like to read that in full,
including prior issues and follow ups. So, all I need is this particular #,
I'll research the rest myself and return.

I remember people once trying to pin Odin as a universal power.
Then I flipped pages and noticed it was based on him shunting the full power of Twilight
into the "Sea of Space"
also known as "Asgard Space" (a pocket-realm)
It didn't even burn all of that, it was contained, but whateva.

That was local, just to close the rift between dimensions.

It was Avengers Prime, a mini-series. That was from #5.

It IS a feat of Universal power (And more) as negated a massive amount of power. Odin containing it by shunting it to his realm is no less of a feat:
http://s30.postimg.org/rdshcbscd/Thor_Zone_005.jpghttp://s30.postimg.org/dy5gmvjul/Thor_Zone_006.jpghttp://s30.postimg.org/ec6smh3y5/Thor_Zone_007.jpg

Asgard space isn't a pocket realm. The Nine Worlds are each fully fledged Universes and the World Tree links to the Megaverse as confirmed in Matt Fraction's run.

I need to double check scans as I don't have that issue, I'll let you know later.

proxima & corvus spears/blades?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It was Avengers Prime, a mini-series. That was from #5.


It IS a feat of Universal power (And more) as negated a massive amount of power. Odin containing it by shunting it to his realm is no less of a feat
Imo, it isn't universal let-alone anything more. The explosive power was shunted (directed)
into Asgard Space where it was contained, but not by anyone including Odin,
the fires are burning in there in some area, just not all areas.
There's actually no reference I found to what exactly happened to the fire.
But we know it couldn't have burned entirely the Pocket-universe Asgard Space/Sea of Space,
because we later saw Odin and that chic enter the portal into Asgard Space,
and they seemed just fined later conversing.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Asgard space isn't a pocket realm. The Nine Worlds are each fully fledged Universes and the World Tree links to the Megaverse as confirmed in Matt Fraction's run.

I need to double check scans as I don't have that issue, I'll let you know later.
Cool. But I gotta see the validation for self.
Because Asgard Space and the rest of the bordered realms like Meph's and such,
are Pocket-realms/universes/dimensions since back in the day.

Even in this official detailed description by Strange concerning the Multiverse: (a taste)

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17234468_Multiverse_Pockets.jpghttp://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17234469_Multiverse_Pockets2.jpg

I also have several more literal stamps of the term "Pocket"
labelled on Asgard Space/Sea of Space on panel which I have
on dvds so give me a good sec, but I am interested in seeing what
it is you're talking about.

Where is Hulk Hands?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Imo, it isn't universal let-alone anything more. The explosive power was shunted (directed)
into Asgard Space where it was contained, but not by anyone including Odin,
the fires are burning in there in some area, just not all areas.
There's actually no reference I found to what exactly happened to the fire.
But we know it couldn't have burned entirely the Pocket-universe Asgard Space/Sea of Space,
because we later saw Odin and that chic enter the portal into Asgard Space,
and they seemed just fined later conversing.

What? Surtur was going to burn All the Nine Realms, and using Other-world as a conduit would have burned the entire Multiverse. Even if you want to assume his fire would have been a spark that would have grown into a flame, that is still a feat far beyond Universal.

You do know that if Odin is capable of negating the totality of that power, protecting the two of them is well within his capabilities? We clearly saw Asgard Space burning, even the portal that they step into.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Cool. But I gotta see the validation for self.
Because Asgard Space and the rest of the bordered realms like Meph's and such,
are Pocket-realms/universes/dimensions since back in the day.

Even in this official detailed description by Strange concerning the Multiverse: (a taste)

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17234468_Multiverse_Pockets.jpghttp://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17234469_Multiverse_Pockets2.jpg

I also have several more literal stamps of the term "Pocket"
labelled on Asgard Space/Sea of Space on panel which I have
on dvds so give me a good sec, but I am interested in seeing what
it is you're talking about.

Here you go (The guy with the glasses explains it) along with some other World Tree related scans from Fraction's run:
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Tampering and unleashing its power literally warps all of reality, and if not careful it can destroy all of creation.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WorldTree1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WorldTree3.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WorldTree4.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WorldTree5.jpg

The Cosmic Axis also connects to not only the Nine Worlds but a much larger Metaverse structrue:
http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16179149_Thor_615_003.jpghttp://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16179150_Thor616-014-015.jpg

For something a bit more recent, the entire Galactus arc as about the World Seed, that will bloom and create the next cycle of creation as everything ends, it's power is unending:
http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16179241_The_Mighty_Thor_2_014-15.jpghttp://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16179236_MightyThor03-014-015.jpghttp://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16179238_MightyThor03-016-017.jpg

Also note that Asgard and all the Nine Worlds are the hearts of their own fully formed Universes like Earth is for the 616, Asgard's is known as Asgard-Space as of Fraction.The Tenth World came from their own Universe which was suffering Entropic Death:
http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16179151_Thor616-016-017.jpghttp://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16179152_Thor616-020-021.jpghttp://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16179153_Thor616-022-023.jpg

The feat was never impressive because the World Tree is big, it was impressive because the World Tree is powerful. Also, the World Tree is infinitely big, it spans all of space/time, what we see is just a visual representation. For example:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16179239/The_Mighty_Thor_1_013-14.jpg.html
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/RagnarokThor73.jpg

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Whe he was about to become one with the Universe (or become the Universe or God, I can't recall it properly) he rejected the power and God said something like "you did well my son". So no, no feats, just the implications Universe-supreme being, everything was possible. nice try

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

What? Surtur was going to burn All the Nine Realms, and using
Other-world as a conduit would have burned the entire Multiverse.
Even if you want to assume his fire would have been a spark that
would have grown into a flame, that is still a feat far beyond Universal.
This has nothing to do with anything beyond what it is my friend.

Which is nothing close to anything more than what it was stated to be: "universal."

Any extra affect of any kind needing an external source, like the Nexus,
makes any feat, even just via statements of potential, null/void.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

You do know that if Odin is capable of negating the totality of that power, protecting the two of them is well within his capabilities? We clearly saw Asgard Space burning, even the portal that they step into.
Odin simply shunted these fire/energies into the portal,
no different that a near dying Owen Reece shunting millions of
times the power of the infinite Multiverse into a portal leading into the Beyond Realm.

Does this make Owen = to Beyonder, or anything reasonably close?
No. Owen got stomped in less than two pages.

You have to be powerful to shunt potent energies elsewhere,
but by the time Owen shunted Beyonder's power he was so depleted
he needed to merge with Surfer's power cosmic to repair the Earth.

Imo, Odin had a feat, but did he do something that suggests to me
he can destroy a universe under his own power, or control in any
way shape or form a universal Aspect of Eternity/Infinity,
or the raw materials of an entire Universe? (countless galaxies/stars etc)

Nah, not at all.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Here you go (The guy with the glasses explains it) along with
some other World Tree related scans from Fraction's run:
Cool. Let me read this cause I gotta eat now but I wanted to respond really quickly.

Originally posted by operator616

I know that you're referring to the Earth X trilogy - Paradise X to be more specific - i just didn't realize that alternate reality showings are usable. And im still not.
So, let's say 616 characters enjoy a story where they jump into alternate worlds or the many different types of twisted universes,
we shouldn't use it cause although it was the FF, in a mainstream FF book,
they ventured into an alternate reality where the story took place
so the events therein are null/void?

Imo, it's the same difference if 616/prime characters show up in alternate world books.
Like GOTG, where 616 Strange and 616 Quasar amongst many others
have involved themselves in.

Heck, while Dr Strange was leaving Alternate Universe 691 (GOTG storyline) to go home (616)
as he passed Time (universeS)
he actually witnessed ripples across Time, from Warlock's/Magus' battle over the incomplete IG,
which was affecting Time across universeS
cause it helped both Strange and GOTG get back to their individual Universes.

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17234267_Alternate_Futures.jpg


I remember that moment when Warlock struggled with Magus back in Infinity War:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17234271_IG_beyond_universe_7.jpg

Incomplete IG wrecking shop across UniverseS. (this doesn't really relate but it's juicy to know)
Originally posted by operator616

Not sure i follow. She needed Wanda's power to tap into the power of the sword:
http://i.imgur.com/4xfyaaR.jpg?1
On panel it's been mentioned many times. 1st issue says that Wanda's power merely bridges the gap between Morgan's power and the sword's (to be able to tap into its power)
http://i.imgur.com/eu1oSYx.jpg?1
2nd issue says the same thing:
http://i.imgur.com/O8D1yGN.jpg?1
10th issue (a recap) says the same:
http://i.imgur.com/sBtMcda.jpg?1

And the 3rd issue says that Scarlet Witch's powers is what allows her to wield the sword (to be able to tap into its power):

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17234306_9g1QrkG.jpg

All the reality-warping was done by the sword.
You have to realize that most of those scans let us know Morgan is using her own magic power.
So that's being added to Twilight.

But I wanted to address something you seemed to forget, although you also conveniently snipped it out of the scan.

The Norn Stones were integral in this feat:

Here's my half of her face where she cements this fact:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17234741_Morgan_Fey_1.jpg

"I stole the Mystic Norn Stones and with their Power
And that of the Twilight Sword, I remade blah, blah, blah."

------------------------------------------------------------------

616 Brian, doesn't have these kinds of abilities, he's a brute,
yet he instantly remade a Universe with Excalibur,
and with one stroke killed Jude (a cosmic entity representing 3 major Concepts: Death/Oblivion/Entropy)

Unlike, Twilight, which is riding Morgan Fey's magics,
some stipulation involving Wanda's reality altering abilities,
Plus the freakin Asgardian Norn Stones amping the sword.

Huge difference imo.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This has nothing to do with anything beyond what it is my friend.

Which is nothing close to anything more than what it was stated to be: "universal."

Any extra affect of any kind needing an external source, like the Nexus,
makes any feat, even just via statements of potential, null/void.

You denied that it was even Universal earlier but it's on par and then some.

No it doesn't because Surtur was going to use Otherworld as a conduit to channel his fire into the entire Multiverse in order to destroy it. Although Surtur said he didn't need anything at all later:
http://s12.postimg.org/h0fn5qyu1/Thor_Zone_010.jpg

Like I said, even if we assume his power was the spark that would grow to consume everything, as it's still far beyond Universal for Surtur as it's all the power he had collected up until that point in himself.

http://s30.postimg.org/fr10p7m0t/Thor_Zone_007.jpghttp://s30.postimg.org/5i8jjdxz1/Thor_Zone_008.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
Odin simply shunted these fire/energies into the portal,
no different that a near dying Owen Reece shunting millions of
times the power of the infinite Multiverse into a portal leading into the Beyond Realm.

Does this make Owen = to Beyonder, or anything reasonably close?
No. Owen got stomped in less than two pages.

You have to be powerful to shunt potent energies elsewhere,
but by the time Owen shunted Beyonder's power he was so depleted
he needed to merge with Surfer's power cosmic to repair the Earth.

Imo, Odin had a feat, but did he do something that suggests to me
he can destroy a universe under his own power, or control in any
way shape or form a universal Aspect of Eternity/Infinity,
or the raw materials of an entire Universe? (countless galaxies/stars etc)

Nah, not at all.

Cool. Let me read this cause I gotta eat now but I wanted to respond really quickly.

I don't remember the Owen scene accurately enough to comment on it. However, it has no reflection on what Odin accomplished nor what the intent was as the entire point of summoning Odin was specifically because he was the only being powerful enough to manipulate such massive energies:
http://s30.postimg.org/h8mh0rqrh/Thor_Zone_018.jpghttp://s30.postimg.org/m8jx8pwe5/Thor_Zone_019.jpg

Not to mention Odin's counterpart in the Dark Gods story line held off the Entropy of his Universe with his sheer will. In terms of sheer scale of power, Odin was definitely Universal and then some under Fraction.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Unlike, Twilight, which is riding Morgan Fey's magics,
some stipulation involving Wanda's reality altering abilities,
Plus the freakin Asgardian Norn Stones amping the sword.

Huge difference imo.

It was made explicitly clear that Wanda's magic was used to breach the gap between Morgan's magic and the Twilight Sword. And that Morgan used the Twilight Sword to accomplish the feat. At best the Norn Stones were added to the power of the Twilight Sword although even that is sketchy as the reality warping was constantly attributed only to the Twilight Sword. It was made explicitly clear that the sword possessed the power level to destroy and re-create creation:
http://s18.postimg.org/8ta211uol/Avengers_v3_001_19a.jpg

And as we see in Avengers Prime, it's more then capable of reality warping on it's own.

You seem to be doing a great deal of mental gymnastics when it comes to Asgard and it's denizens. Why is that when you so quickly accept statements regarding other cosmic beings and expect others to do so?

Originally posted by Mr Master

The Norn Stones were integral in this feat:

Here's my half of her face where she cements this fact:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17234741_Morgan_Fey_1.jpg

"I stole the Mystic Norn Stones and with their Power
And that of the Twilight Sword, I remade blah, blah, blah."


Also, wow. Here's the whole scan:
http://s22.postimg.org/apfb06fpb/Avengers_v3_003_04b.jpg



Morgana makes it explicitly clear that her feat depends on the power of the Twilight Sword and Wanda's magic that allows her to wield it. Throw in the fact that the Twilight Sword was referenced as the source of the reality warping like half a dozen times and Thor even confirms it on his own:
http://s18.postimg.org/8ta211uol/Avengers_v3_001_19a.jpg

And the intention of the writer is very clear and this is a reading comprehension fail on your part.

The Norn Stones amped Morgana's personal power, but the Twilight Sword is what warped reality.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

You denied that it was even Universal earlier but it's on par and then some.
I disagree.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

No it doesn't because Surtur was going to use Otherworld as a conduit to channel his fire into the entire Multiverse in order to destroy it. Although Surtur said he didn't need anything at all later:

Like I said, even if we assume his power was the spark that would grow to consume everything, as it's still far beyond Universal for Surtur as it's all the power he had collected up until that point in himself.
I disagree. Imo, still a universal power via verbal implication.

What it's "possibly" capable of using the Nexus is meaningless to me,
since I've seen potential Global powers like Erishkigel/Starbrand become cosmic threats via a Nexus,
even applying some influence in countless realities via the Nexus.

Outside the Nexus though? A chump!
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

I don't remember the Owen scene accurately enough to comment on it. However, it has no reflection on what Odin accomplished nor what the intent was as the entire point of summoning Odin was specifically because he was the only being powerful enough to manipulate such massive energies:
Odin did exactly what Owen did, and others have done.
Also yes, I agree and accepted "you have to be powerful to shunt potent energies"
but you don't have to be multiversal or universal to shunt energies that exceed your level of energy output.

When Odin destroys/remakes or even better creates a universe on panel then we can go wow.
If he ever shows power over a universal Concept I'll give em a bigger wow.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Not to mention Odin's counterpart in the Dark Gods story line held off the Entropy of his Universe with his sheer will. In terms of sheer scale of power, Odin was definitely Universal and then some under Fraction.
Reading.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

It was made explicitly clear that Wanda's magic was used to breach the gap between Morgan's magic and the Twilight Sword. And that Morgan used the Twilight Sword to accomplish the feat. At best the Norn Stones were added to the power of the Twilight Sword although even that is sketchy as the reality warping was constantly attributed only to the Twilight Sword. It was made explicitly clear that the sword possessed the power level to destroy and re-create creation:
At-least you're being a true debater and acknowledging this can't be denied.

Regardless of the percentage it added, it was needed to accomplish the feat.
Which stands to reason that in this instant under these circumstances,
Twilight could Not do it alone. Morgan's power boosted by Wanda's was also included,
measly as it may have been.

Interestingly enough Wanda's been used as a conduit of infinite energy before. Just sayin.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

And as we see in Avengers Prime, it's more then capable of reality warping on it's own.

You seem to be doing a great deal of mental gymnastics when it comes to Asgard and it's denizens. Why is that when you so quickly accept statements regarding other cosmic beings and expect others to do so?
Nah Rage, I would dispute that characterization of my posts.
Actually, I'm in the process of reading material friend as we speak.
I wanna know about details, possible stipulations, and basically a broader personal picture.

I will give you an honest feedback if I feel things have been retconned,
cause like I said, Asgard-Space/Sea of Space was always a Pocket from what I knew.
This whole 'world tree' thingy is twisting things up, and since I'm only getting a peek at the info,
I'm confused,
and therefore wouldn't feel comfortable making a statement with my name on it yet.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

And the intention of the writer is very clear
and this is a reading comprehension fail on your part.
Gibberish. Personal attacks will not be tolerated. Real simple.
One more time, and ignore you go. No need to insult you back. Simple.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

The Norn Stones amped Morgana's personal power, but the Twilight Sword is what warped reality.
That's your opinion/interpretation. And ... I disagree with it.

Because of this: (latest statement in the arc)

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17234741_Morgan_Fey_1.jpg

"I stole the Mystic Norn Stones and with their Power
And that of the Twilight Sword, I remade blah, blah, blah."

Originally posted by Mr Master
Gibberish. Personal attacks will not be tolerated. Real simple.
One more time, and ignore you go. No need to insult you back. Simple.

That's your opinion/interpretation. And ... I disagree with it.

Because of this: (latest statement in the arc)

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17234741_Morgan_Fey_1.jpg

"I stole the Mystic Norn Stones and with their Power
And that of the Twilight Sword, I remade blah, blah, blah."

And she went to clarify that it was the reality warping was ONLY depended on the Twilight Sword and Scarlet Witch bridging:
http://s22.postimg.org/apfb06fpb/Avengers_v3_003_04b.jpg

Morgana makes it explicitly clear that her feat depends on the power of the Twilight Sword and Wanda's magic that allows her to wield it. Thor even confirms that it has the power to destroy or re-create reality:
http://s18.postimg.org/8ta211uol/Avengers_v3_001_19a.jpg

I fully admit that Morgan had the power of the Norn Stones as this was stated more then once, but it was also repeatedly clarified that Morgan's reality warping was accomplished through the power of the sword SPECIFICALLY. The Norn Stones amped Morgan's personal power, it was the Twilight Sword however that warped reality. Besides the scans already posted, here are some more:
http://s24.postimg.org/kp8tubu9t/Avengers_v3_003_06a.jpghttp://s24.postimg.org/jo8l57da9/Avengers_v3_003_13b.jpghttp://s17.postimg.org/8569f228b/Avengers_v3_003_02b.jpg

As a matter of fact, reality reset immediately after Morgan lost control over the sword. What a coincidence that is.

I've seen you stick to the claim that the Infinity Gauntlet is Multiversal based on the fact that you felt more evidence supported this stance over it being Universal despite their being contradictions. And yet here you are arguing this? I'm sorry, but common.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I disagree.

I disagree. Imo, still a universal power via verbal implication.

What it's "possibly" capable of using the Nexus is meaningless to me,
since I've seen potential Global powers like Erishkigel/Starbrand become cosmic threats via a Nexus,
even applying some influence in countless realities via the Nexus.

Outside the Nexus though? A chump!

Why are you referencing previous comics in favor of evidence from the event itself when those examples were not referred to in this particular story?

It was specifically pointed out that this was power Surtur amassed himself. Whatever, we're going in circles at this point so I'm done repeating myself on this particular subject. Congratulations I guess.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Odin did exactly what Owen did, and others have done.
Also yes, I agree and accepted "you have to be powerful to shunt potent energies"
but you don't have to be multiversal or universal to shunt energies that exceed your level of energy output.

Completely disagreed based on the implications of the scene and that Odin was specifically needed due to the sheer magnitude of the power.

Originally posted by Mr Master
When Odin destroys/remakes or even better creates a universe on panel then we can go wow.
If he ever shows power over a universal Concept I'll give em a bigger wow.

Reading.

At-least you're being a true debater and acknowledging this can't be denied.

Regardless of the percentage it added, it was needed to accomplish the feat.
Which stands to reason that in this instant under these circumstances,
Twilight could Not do it alone. Morgan's power boosted by Wanda's was also included,
measly as it may have been.

Interestingly enough Wanda's been used as a conduit of infinite energy before. Just sayin.

No, I said it was a possibility, although a very slim one based on the evidence.

No, it was not as it was specifically referenced more then once that the Twilight Sword was what was warping reality.

It was SPECIFICALLY said that the sword can in fact do it alone. Please look at the scans that I post.



Wanda's reality warping power was used to BRIDGE THE GAP between the sword and Morgan's magic. That is all.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nah Rage, I would dispute that characterization of my posts.
Actually, I'm in the process of reading material friend as we speak.
I wanna know about details, possible stipulations, and basically a broader personal picture.

I will give you an honest feedback if I feel things have been retconned,
cause like I said, Asgard-Space/Sea of Space was always a Pocket from what I knew.
This whole 'world tree' thingy is twisting things up, and since I'm only getting a peek at the info,
I'm confused,
and therefore wouldn't feel comfortable making a statement with my name on it yet.

That's fine. Let me know if you need issue numbers.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

And she went to clarify that it was the reality warping was ONLY depended on the Twilight Sword and Scarlet Witch bridging:
Morgana makes it explicitly clear that her feat depends on the power of the Twilight Sword and Wanda's magic that allows her to wield it.
There are scans
that suggests she's using Wanda solely as an amp to bridge herself to Twilight,
there are scans that suggests she's using Wanda's hex/reality altering powers
to boost Twilight's affects.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Thor even confirms that it has the power to destroy or re-create reality
I believe its possible.
But I also think it takes a proper measure of force wielding it.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

I fully admit that Morgan had the power of the Norn Stones as this was stated more then once, but it was also repeatedly clarified that Morgan's reality warping was accomplished through the power of the sword SPECIFICALLY. The Norn Stones amped Morgan's personal power, it was the Twilight Sword however that warped reality. Besides the scans already posted, here are some more:
http://s17.postimg.org/8569f228b/Avengers_v3_003_02b.jpg

As a matter of fact, reality reset immediately after Morgan lost control over the sword. What a coincidence that is.
I disagree.
From where I stand she possibly used a personal amp via Wanda,
and definitely used the Norn Stones in culmination with Twilight
to do it's thing.

And that last scan strongly suggest what I theorized earlier.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

I've seen you stick to the claim that the Infinity Gauntlet is Multiversal based on the fact that you felt more evidence supported this stance over it being Universal despite their being contradictions. And yet here you are arguing this? I'm sorry, but common.
Bad example. When the IG and even Incomplete IG have multiversal feats under their belts,
heck, the IG did something unheard of, when Thanos sent out a reality ripple,
that landed in the Beyond Realm located beyond/outside the ends of all creation.
Man, the Incomplete IG left residual affects across all of Time,
where Dr Strange witnessed this leaving an Alternate Universe
representing the 31st Century of Earth-616,
namely Reality-691 (GOTG universe)
to reach his home across centuries of time to the Present. (616)

Originally posted by Mr Master
There are scans
that suggests she's using Wanda solely as an amp to bridge herself to Twilight,
there are scans that suggests she's using Wanda's hex/reality altering powers
to boost Twilight's affects.

I believe its possible.
But I also think it takes a proper measure of force wielding it.

I disagree.
From where I stand she possibly used a personal amp via Wanda,
and definitely used the Norn Stones in culmination with Twilight
to do it's thing.

And that last scan strongly suggest what I theorized earlier.

Bad example. When the IG and even Incomplete IG have multiversal feats under their belts,
heck, the IG did something unheard of, when Thanos sent out a reality ripple,
that landed in the Beyond Realm located beyond/outside the ends of all creation.
Man, the Incomplete IG left residual affects across all of Time,
where Dr Strange witnessed this in an Alternate Universe
representing the 31st Century of the Earth-616,
namely Reality-691. (GOTG alternate universe)

Wanda was used solely as a bridge between Morgan's Celtic magic and the Asgardian magic of the Twilight Sword. Her power did not amp the Twilight Sword's reality amping.

If you have scans that indicate otherwise, please post them.

The last scan says that Wanda was used as a conduit, yes. I don't understand how that changes our argument at all? Everyone knows that Wanda's power was what allowed Morgan to control the Asgardian magic of the sword, that was a big plot point. This however doesn't mean it amped the swords power in anyway as Wanda's role was very much clarified and she was what allowed Morgan to channel's the swords massive power. Someone who is not foreign to Asgardian magic such as Thor for example does not need such a conduit.

I was going to reference other stories but you haven't read them yet so we'll save that for later.

^^ What I see is a particular amount of power is needed to wield this thing
with Cosmic scale affects.

No different than a person's "will" making the difference in how far a CCU can go,
or the UN in the right hands (like a Cosmic) can do far more damage,
same goes with Starbrand (grant it on much lower scale)
even Eternity may have possibly boosted his power with the IG to challenge TLT.

I'm jumping around but basically, I think in Twilight's case, like many others,
its scale of influence on Reality depends on the amount of power wielding it.

The Sword alone imo, in meager hands can't do these things. (Not in this arc at-least)

Originally posted by Mr Master
same goes with Starbrand (grant it on much lower scale)

Originally posted by Mr Master
So, let's say 616 characters enjoy a story where they jump into alternate worlds or the many different types of twisted universes,
we shouldn't use it cause although it was the FF, in a mainstream FF book,
they ventured into an alternate reality where the story took place
so the events therein are null/void?

Imo, it's the same difference if 616/prime characters show up in alternate world books.
Like GOTG, where 616 Strange and 616 Quasar amongst many others
have involved themselves in.

Heck, while Dr Strange was leaving Alternate Universe 691 (GOTG storyline) to go home (616)
as he passed Time (universeS)
he actually witnessed ripples across Time, from Warlock's/Magus' battle over the incomplete IG,
which was affecting Time across universeS
cause it helped both Strange and GOTG get back to their individual Universes.



I remember that moment when Warlock struggled with Magus back in Infinity War:

Incomplete IG wrecking shop across UniverseS. (this doesn't really relate but it's juicy to know)



Ok, but the thing is, those are 616 characters, Excalibur on the other hand, im not so sure.

Remember that, Excalibur was portrayed to be the same thing as the sword in the star in trilogy.

At the beginning of Universe X #5 we see this:

http://i.imgur.com/aj6ie0T.jpg

Wayfinder creating the microverse, and its association with the Enigma Force. Which is how the Sword in the Star was shown in Micronauts v1 #35

http://i.imgur.com/DD5RStp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uQ5Eq82.jpg

Or a more recent example, from X-23 v2 #15:

http://i.imgur.com/XLqduvi.jpg

-------

While the prime Excalibur is the one forged in the fires of creation (which is nice) as stated in Excalibur v2 #3:

http://i.imgur.com/ETr3xDW.jpg?1

Though it should be noted that (as im sure you know, i just want the readers of this thread to be aware of this) Mastermind was impersonating Roma in this instance.



Originally posted by Mr Master


You have to realize that most of those scans let us know Morgan is using her own magic power.
So that's being added to Twilight.

But I wanted to address something you seemed to forget, although you also conveniently snipped it out of the scan.

The Norn Stones were integral in this feat:

Here's my half of her face where she cements this fact:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17234741_Morgan_Fey_1.jpg

"I stole the Mystic Norn Stones and with their Power
And that of the Twilight Sword, I remade blah, blah, blah."

------------------------------------------------------------------

616 Brian, doesn't have these kinds of abilities, he's a brute,
yet he instantly remade a Universe with Excalibur,
and with one stroke killed Jude (a cosmic entity representing 3 major Concepts: Death/Oblivion/Entropy)

Unlike, Twilight, which is riding Morgan Fey's magics,
some stipulation involving Wanda's reality altering abilities,
Plus the freakin Asgardian Norn Stones amping the sword.

Huge difference imo.

Yes Morgan is using her magic and Wanda's to be able to tap into the power of the sword, nothing more. I already proved this along with bio confirmations.

Morgan states in the same speech that all the process depends on the twilight sword and the power of the Scarlet Witch which allows her to wield it, here's her stating it for the 2nd time (again, no mention of the norn stones):

http://i.imgur.com/dircQqK.jpg?1

So according to this statement Morgan with the power of the SW (to be able to tap into the power of TS) can reshape the cosmos any moment she desires (no mention of the norn stones whatsoever)

Sure, in your scan it's stated that the Norn Stones had a role to play in it, but in other instances (like mine) it's completely ignored. Seems to me, the Norn stones didn't have any major part to play, and as thor mentions in the 1st issue, Twilight Sword is capable of remaking creation when wielded by a sufficient user.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It was made explicitly clear that the sword possessed the power level to destroy and re-create creation:
http://s18.postimg.org/8ta211uol/Avengers_v3_001_19a.jpg

And as we see in Avengers Prime, it's more then capable of reality warping on it's own.



forgot about that scan, it confirms that the Twilight Sword can warp reality on its own (with a sufficient user, that is)

Though regarding the world tree: it doesn't link to the megaverse but the metaverse (which is different). Megaverse includes realities outside the multiverse itself (so it's impossible for it to be linked to literally every reality outside Marvel multiverse).

Here's one example from a New Mutants issue (2 years after the thor issue which references the metaverse) where the metaverse is threatened:

http://i.imgur.com/jUFbnoL.jpg?1

And the threat didn't affect any realities beyond the multiverse, so we know they're different.

Originally posted by operator616

Yes Morgan is using her magic and Wanda's to be able to tap into the power of the sword, nothing more. I already proved this along with bio confirmations.
Morgan states in the same speech that all the process depends on the twilight sword and the power of the Scarlet Witch which allows her to wield it, here's her stating it for the 2nd time (again, no mention of the norn stones):
So according to this statement Morgan with the power of the SW (to be able to tap into the power of TS) can reshape the cosmos any moment she desires (no mention of the norn stones whatsoever)
Sure, in your scan it's stated that the Norn Stones had a role to play in it, but in other instances (like mine) it's completely ignored. Seems to me, the Norn stones didn't have any major part to play, and as thor mentions in the 1st issue,

Twilight Sword is capable of remaking creation when wielded by a sufficient user.
Morgan used Wanda and the Norn Stones to amp her power,
so she would be able to achieve cosmic scale affects with Twilight.

If you focus on your last comment I bolded, it leads us to agree.

Originally posted by operator616

Twilight Sword can warp reality on its own

(with a sufficient user, that is)
See, you're a reasonable man, and we agree cause that's been my point.
Originally posted by operator616

Though regarding the world tree: it doesn't link to the megaverse but the metaverse (which is different). Megaverse includes realities outside the multiverse itself (so it's impossible for it to be linked to literally every reality outside Marvel multiverse).

Here's one example from a New Mutants issue (2 years after the thor issue which references the metaverse) where the metaverse is threatened:
http://i.imgur.com/jUFbnoL.jpg?1
And the threat didn't affect any realities beyond the multiverse, so we know they're different.
I'm still learning about this "tree" joint.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Sword of Superman>>>>>>>>All.
Hyperbole imo.

Anyways, as for this thread, toss-up between Twilight and Ebony.

^^ The Ebony blade isn't in the same breadth as Twilight or especially Excalibur.
Originally posted by operator616

Ok, but the thing is, those are 616 characters, Excalibur on the other hand, im not so sure.

Remember that, Excalibur was portrayed to be the same thing as the sword in the star in trilogy.

At the beginning of Universe X #5 we see this:

http://i.imgur.com/aj6ie0T.jpg


Yea, while I always found that strange how the X saga linked "Excalibur"
to the "Sword in the Star" from the Micro-Cosmos,
Excalibur itself in the X stories is still the same Excalibur forged in Heaven,
or the fires of creation whathaveyou.
This Excalibur was given to 616 Brian by Merlin/Roma in the X saga likewise,
just like the original/initial truth. Merlin/Roma have no alternates.

Originally posted by operator616
forgot about that scan, it confirms that the Twilight Sword can warp reality on its own (with a sufficient user, that is)

Though regarding the world tree: it doesn't link to the megaverse but the metaverse (which is different). Megaverse includes realities outside the multiverse itself (so it's impossible for it to be linked to literally every reality outside Marvel multiverse).

Here's one example from a New Mutants issue (2 years after the thor issue which references the metaverse) where the metaverse is threatened:

http://i.imgur.com/jUFbnoL.jpg?1

And the threat didn't affect any realities beyond the multiverse, so we know they're different.

My bad, I think I used that word interchangeably. It was called a quantum Metaverse specifically.

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ What I see is a particular amount of power is needed to wield this thing
with Cosmic scale affects.

No different than a person's "will" making the difference in how far a CCU can go,
or the UN in the right hands (like a Cosmic) can do far more damage,
same goes with Starbrand (grant it on much lower scale)
even Eternity may have possibly boosted his power with the IG to challenge TLT.

I'm jumping around but basically, I think in Twilight's case, like many others,
its scale of influence on Reality depends on the amount of power wielding it.

The Sword alone imo, in meager hands can't do these things. (Not in this arc at-least)

I understand what you're saying but I think in the Twilight Sword's case, you simply have to be able to tap into the Asgardian magic. In the Avenger's arc, the only caveat given, was that Morgan needed to bridge the gap between the two foreign magics. Besides that, no other specific requirements regarding the Twilight Sword's reality warping was given. Morgan was specifically concerned about only two things: The twilight sword because it gave her the ability to warp reality and the Scarlet Witch who allowed her to control the sword through her reality warping.

Anyways, I think this particular discussion has run it's course.

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ The Ebony blade isn't in the same breadth as Twilight or especially Excalibur.
It being able to slice Nemesis in half tells me differently. I don't care about Excalibur though.

Originally posted by Epicurus

It being able to slice Nemesis in half tells me differently.

I see. Although I'm not sure where you're drawing your info from.

You see, the Ebony you're referring to, was an Alternate Ebony blade,
which conveniently Nemesis brought into the Ultraverse,
and more conveniently Nemesis allowed the Black Night to survive
when she wiped out every Alternate Avenger from the infinite prime multiverse,
and every Alternate Ultraforce member from the infinite Ultraverse multiverse.
(telling us the Gems wanted this to happen to Nemesis)

So, it never slice anything in any portion.
Dane snuck up on a disoriented, vulnerable Nemesis who was
struggling for control of her being against the sentient Gems that make her up.

Then, with this stipulation involved,
did this Alternate Blade break the crown on Nemesis' head
where the Gems were placed.

But to even slightly suggests that any Ebony, or any Sword of any kind in Marvel
could harm Nemesis, (save for plot/pis) ... is silly friend.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I see. Although I'm not sure where you're drawing your info from.

You see, the Ebony you're referring to, was an Alternate Ebony blade,
which conveniently Nemesis brought into the Ultraverse,
and more conveniently Nemesis allowed the Black Night to survive
when she wiped out every Alternate Avenger from the infinite prime multiverse,
and every Alternate Ultraforce member from the infinite Ultraverse multiverse.

So, it never slice anything in any portion,
it snuck up on a disoriented, vulnerable Nemesis who was
struggling for control of her being against the sentient Gems that make her up.

Then, with this stipulation involved,
did this Alternate Blade break the crown on Nemesis' head
where the Gems were placed.

But to even slightly suggests that any Ebony, or any Sword of any kind in Marvel
could harm Nemesis, (save for plot/pis) ... is silly friend.
IIRC, that Ebony was supposed to be identical in terms of power and attributes to the actual Ebony.

Originally posted by Epicurus

IIRC, that Ebony was supposed to be identical in terms of power and attributes to the actual Ebony.
Scans? ...

and even so, the Nemesis encounter is not a proper way to define it's "power/attributes," since that was ridiculously circumstantial.

^

The Ebony blade only hit the crown anyway and disrupted an already conflicting infinity gems.