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DCNU Justice League VS WBH

DCNU JUSTICE LEAGUE

1. Superman
2. Captain Marvel
3. Orion
4. Wonder Woman
5. Flash
6. Aquaman
7. Zatanna

VS

WBH

Just wanted to see how this plays out for everybody.

Lol.

I was just wondering because many give the void the win over this team and WBH seems to be a peer by many

Originally posted by carver9
Lol. tell me what you think...or is only wwh need here hahahaha

Originally posted by bbrem123
tell me what you think...or is only wwh need here hahahaha

WWH would get murdered by this team.

WBH is just a ways above him... He's something else entirely.

At least, using the terminology of this forum, anyway.

Originally posted by bbrem123
tell me what you think...or is only wwh need here hahahaha

WWH would lose to this team. I was laughing at Pr facial thingy. As for this thread, I don't see anything wrong with it. I just think.it takes more than Herald level power to hurt this version of Hulk as proven by his fight with Armageddon. The same one that physically stomped merged Hulk and restrained Surfer.

Then you have to factor in how strong this version of Hulk is. Back to Armageddon, he amped himself to at the very least at the levels of WWH (amped off WBH power) and a holding back (tremendously) WBH killed him with two hits.

It would take 2 to 3 hits to take out everyone here and the shockwaves from his punch would kill half of the JLA...even if it's a missed punch.

With that said WBH wins.

Since BFR is not off, DCNU team wins. Flash BFR him to aceleration force.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Since BFR is not off, DCNU team wins. Flash BFR him to aceleration force. Not sure if serious.

Well, tell me why he cant do that.

Maybe because he will be incinerated before he can accomplish anything to WBH. Most of them won't survive the shock waves from WBH let alone attempt a BRF. Who has Flash BFR is DCNU that is anywhere close to WBH please tell me.

Now I have to ask: This is serious ?

WBH will react faster than Flash ?

But ok. Lets say WBH will be the first to act in This fight ( a thing that I really cant see). Flash can become intangible, then he BFR him.

He alredy came to a conclusion in DCNU: if he fight someone stronger than him, the only way to defeat him is via BFR ( done against Grood).

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Now I have to ask: This is serious ?

WBH will react faster than Flash ?

But ok. Lets say WBH will be the first to act in This fight ( a thing that I really cant see). Flash can become intangible, then he BFR him.

He alredy came to a conclusion in DCNU: if he fight someone stronger than him, the only way to defeat him is via BFR ( done against Grood).


Show us with scans...show us DCNU Flash doing any if that. Also, Hulk has an OMNI blast around his body. Show us Flash going intangible via an OMNI attack.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/8094189/Incredible_Hulks_632_021.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/8094156/Incredible_Hulks_632_012.jpg.html

Hulk wins.

WBH thunderclap and finishes the survivors with punches.

JLA should win this soundly...

Originally posted by Stranglehold300
JLA should win this soundly...

Why?

Originally posted by carver9
Why?

Do I really have to state why? The JLA have speed on their side which Hulk has no defense against. Thats more than enough to state why the JLA wins.

Originally posted by Stranglehold300
Do I really have to state why? The JLA have speed on their side which Hulk has no defense against. Thats more than enough to state why the JLA wins.


First thing, he starts off with an OMNI blast around his body. Second thing, a single punch from him did this...

https://imageshack.com/i/0i70848220j

You can't provide a single scan proving anyone on this team can survive this.

3rd thing, 3 peers to Savage Hulk was attacking him and he didn't flinch. Didn't move a muscle. Didn't even register their attack.

https://imageshack.com/i/1n39432975j

Now again, how does he lose this?

JL would blister Hulk's ass

Originally posted by carver9
First thing, he starts off with an OMNI blast around his body. Second thing, a single punch from him did this...

https://imageshack.com/i/0i70848220j

You can't provide a single scan proving anyone on this team can survive this.

3rd thing, 3 peers to Savage Hulk was attacking him and he didn't flinch. Didn't move a muscle. Didn't even register their attack.

https://imageshack.com/i/1n39432975j

Now again, how does he lose this?

1. You forgot to mention that feat was a duel feat along with the red she Hulk.

2. Supes, CM or Flash could speedblitz him before he even does anything. This is a battle forum and not comic story which involves plot devices, so they will be fighting at their best and Superman isn't going to be slugging it out with Hulk. He's going to first speedblitz Hulk.

3. We don't even know if Hulk survived that planet explosion.

4. Superman strength is above savage Hulks, especially New 52 Superman.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Now I have to ask: This is serious ?

WBH will react faster than Flash ?

I didn't say Hulk will react faster than Flash. But Flash will be pretty much useless he can't hurt or BFR this Hulk.

So what your telling me is that Flash can go intangible and BFR anyone? It's funny how this never happens this could have been pretty handy against Darksied no?

I'm not sure why people start making implausible scenarios when it comes to speedsters when it goes against what they have shown in comics.

Originally posted by kgkg
I didn't say Hulk will react faster than Flash. But Flash will be pretty much useless he can't hurt or BFR this Hulk.

So what your telling me is that Flash can go intangible and BFR anyone? It's funny how this never happens this could have been pretty handy against Darksied no?

I'm not sure why people start making implausible scenarios when it comes to speedsters when it goes against what they have shown in comics.

It worked well enough when they dumped Prime into the speed force

Originally posted by Stranglehold300
1. You forgot to mention that feat was a duel feat along with the red she Hulk.

2. Supes, CM or Flash could speedblitz him before he even does anything. This is a battle forum and not comic story which involves plot devices, so they will be fighting at their best and Superman isn't going to be slugging it out with Hulk. He's going to first speedblitz Hulk.

3. We don't even know if Hulk survived that planet explosion.

4. Superman strength is above savage Hulks, especially New 52 Superman.

You can split that ft 4 ways and it would still be greater than any force anyone felt here.

Flash is a non Factor. His punches will not do a thing.

Them blitzing him would run them right into an OMNI blast that was leveling a city. No one here is tanking that and if anything, it would leave them open for a one hitter quitter. This doesn't include the fact that Hulk has hit speedster before and recently Hulk has been shown as a speedster himself.

Why dont we know if he survived it or not? Here is him and She Rulk in the heart of the blast without a scratch while everyone else was melting.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/8901484/Incredible_Hulks_635_005.jpg.html

HAHAHAHAHA... DCNU Superman isn't stronger than Savage Hulk. Savage Hulk held planet Skaar with nothing but brute strength. Planet Sakaar was twice the size of Earth. Planetary fts isn't beyond Savage, let alone any other Hulks that is stronger than him.

Originally posted by Odekahn
It worked well enough when they dumped Prime into the speed force Wrong Flash also multiple Flash doing it.

Originally posted by kgkg
Wrong Flash also multiple Flash doing it.

It showed their capabilities to do such. Flashes don't knock anyone out one panel into their books either but that doesn't mean in a forum fight they aren't able to do so. I do understand what you're saying though, and while I disagree with you, I can understand your not being satisfied with that showing by itself.

Originally posted by carver9
You can split that ft 4 ways and it would still be greater than any force anyone felt here.

Flash is a non Factor. His punches will not do a thing.

Flash is not limited to punches...He can phase(Hulk can't beat what he can't touch), time travel, speed/kinetic energy control (if Hulk can't move he can't hurt Flash),etc,etc...

Originally posted by carver9
Them blitzing him would run them right into an OMNI blast that was leveling a city. No one here is tanking that and if anything, it would leave them open for a one hitter quitter. This doesn't include the fact that Hulk has hit speedster before and recently Hulk has been shown as a speedster himself.

When has Hulk become a speedster??? Or at least on the level of Supes, Cap or the Flash???

Originally posted by carver9
Why dont we know if he survived it or not? Here is him and She Rulk in the heart of the blast without a scratch while everyone else was melting.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/8901484/Incredible_Hulks_635_005.jpg.html

Thats not really explaining anything. They could just have better healing factor than the other people.

Originally posted by carver9
HAHAHAHAHA... DCNU Superman isn't stronger than Savage Hulk. Savage Hulk held planet Skaar with nothing but brute strength. Planet Sakaar was twice the size of Earth. Planetary fts isn't beyond Savage, let alone any other Hulks that is stronger than him.

No...Hulk only held the continental plates of Skaar, not the whole planet, big differences.

Superman on the other hand was bench pressing the weight of Earth for five days...
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107504/3323265-superman13a.jpg

Originally posted by carver9

Flash is a non Factor. His punches will not do a thing.

O.o ^thisguy

Smdh

Originally posted by Stranglehold300
Flash is not limited to punches...He can phase(Hulk can't beat what he can't touch), time travel, speed/kinetic energy control (if Hulk can't move he can't hurt Flash),etc,etc...


When has Hulk become a speedster??? Or at least on the level of Supes, Cap or the Flash???


Thats not really explaining anything. They could just have better healing factor than the other people.



No...Hulk only held the continental plates of Skaar, not the whole planet, big differences.

Superman on the other hand was bench pressing the weight of Earth for five days...
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107504/3323265-superman13a.jpg

Again, show me this version of Flash, DCNU, doing anything you've mentioned. I'll be waiting for those scans.

He doesn't need to be on the level of anyone here since CIS is on. We dont debate based off powers, we still use their personality and on panel showings.

Why isn't it explaining anything. They are in the heart of the attack without a scratch while everyone else is turned to dust. That doesn't have a thing to do with healing factors since we dont see any damage on their skin. How about this, we dont debate on what YOU think, we go by on panel showings. I showed you them being unharmed, the proof is on you to show them dying during the attack.

LOL...are you still debating this planetary ft thingy.

Grey Hulk destroys an asteroid twice the size of Earth.

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Hulk%20Strength/GreyHulkStrikingPower05.jpg.html

Vector blast was so powerful that it was capable of pushing planets out of orbit. Hulk powers through it.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Strength/MindlessHulkPressing02.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Strength/MindlessHulkPressing03.jpg

I'm not posting every planetary ft he has. I can post him punching someone in the stomach causing planetary destruction. I can show him punching someone in the face affecting an INFINITE amount of dimensions. Whats the point? Planetary means nothing to Hulk. The thing about this is, I have NUMEROUS of showings, you only have one my friend.

You're not winning this.

Carver, calm down or you'll cause self combustion.

Originally posted by carver9
Show us with scans...show us DCNU Flash doing any if that. Also, Hulk has an OMNI blast around his body. Show us Flash going intangible via an OMNI attack.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/8094189/Incredible_Hulks_632_021.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/8094156/Incredible_Hulks_632_012.jpg.html

Here he BFR Grood ( which has Flash level of Superspeed and was unable to avoid):

http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/eaebiakuya/Flash%20DCNU/levarforca_zps60918596.jpg

And I really dont understand why a omni direcional attack will work against intangibility. He alredy vibrate too a wall - it means, all his body become intangible.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Here he BFR Grood ( which has Flash level of Superspeed and was unable to avoid):

http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/eaebiakuya/Flash%20DCNU/levarforca_zps60918596.jpg

And I really dont understand why a omni direcional attack will work against intangibility. He alredy vibrate too a wall - it means, all his body become intangible.

Good post.thumbsup

Originally posted by kgkg
I didn't say Hulk will react faster than Flash. But Flash will be pretty much useless he can't hurt or BFR this Hulk.

Cant see why he cant BFR him before he can react, since this Flash has femtoseconds reactions, and has calced to infinity in less than a second before act ( looking for the best strategy).



Flash only learned that in the fight against Grood. In Darkseid battle, 5 years in the past, he had no idea he could do that...he dont even know that aceleration force was the source of his powers, he never had heard anything about that in that time....



Flash has BFRed a guy far faster than Hulk, without touching him. It happened in a comic.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Here he BFR Grood ( which has Flash level of Superspeed and was unable to avoid):

http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/eaebiakuya/Flash%20DCNU/levarforca_zps60918596.jpg

And I really dont understand why a omni direcional attack will work against intangibility. He alredy vibrate too a wall - it means, all his body become intangible.

So Grood is as powerful as WBH? Four Savage Hulk level characters couldnt budge WBH but Flash is moving him? Yeah right.

LOL...thats not the same as vibrating through an OMNI attack while becoming tangible (have to grab Hulk some kind of way) and pushing him through whatever type of portal youre trying to bfr him in.

Cant see why the strengh of the guy Matter. As you can see in the image, what happen is a space time distorcion. If you are inside that area, you will be " teleported".

Carver, I think you dont saw the image. Flash never grabed Grood. He said he used the power of his mind. He dont touched Grood in the image. He dont have to touch Hulk to BFR him. He dont have to put him in any portal. Thats not how This BFR works. Flash "teleported" all that area, where he and Grood was, to Aceleration force.

Grood isent stronger than savage Hulk, but was far faster in This issue, and was unable to react.

Jla all day WBH is just a trans level character hes Darkseid minus the omega force or whatever the phuck

Originally posted by eaebiakuya Cant see why he cant BFR him before he can react, since this Flash has femtoseconds reactions, and has calced to infinity in less than a second before act ( looking for the best strategy). femtoseconds rections? This Flash can't even go more than escape velocity without using vibrations. Also Flash was getting tagged by Grodd's goon and had to be saved. Lets not pretend that Flash is someone that can't be touched.

When he teleported himself and Grodd to the speed force it wasn't instant- Grodd was just standing there and they were having a convo before he was actually transported. Grodd could have escaped if he knew what was happening.

Hulk doesn't need to be faster than Flash he just just has to connect once.

Hulk annihilates

JLA wins. This is basically like Thanos vs the avengers from infinity. Except WBH has no generals to occupy the team. And WBH being significantly less versatile than Thanos. I wonder how the fight would have turned out if every powerhouse on the avengers bombarded a Thanos who isn't able to use shields, exotic cosmic powers and could only punch.

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
JLA wins. This is basically like Thanos vs the avengers from infinity. Except WBH has no generals to occupy the team. And WBH being significantly less versatile than Thanos. I wonder how the fight would have turned out if every powerhouse on the avengers bombarded a Thanos who isn't able to use shields, exotic cosmic powers and could only punch.

World Breaker takes the majority in a random encounter scenario.

Few on panel facts:

1. Hulk didn't just blow up "a planet", he also caused Arm'Cheddon (a Herald Class foe) to dust simply from the Gamma Bursts he radiated.
For those who say that Red She-Hulk and WB's impact did the trick- my reply is "so what?"- the result is the same. Hulk hits someone "not Red She-Hulk" and mulches them while mimicking the same Feat.
The driving power level here was Hulk- and he can self replicate.
He also dusted Fing Fang Foom Wendigo, Bi-Beast, and a few billion powerful demonic beings.
All of them incinerated, and he didn't even need to punch them.

2. Hulk is the only one who survived the planetary explosion(s) *it wasn't just one- he repeated this Feat numerous times before he was stopped*; the fact that Hulk survived is quoted on-panel and can be provided as a scan if needed.

World Breaker is Marvel's version of "Super Hulk Prime"- he is more than capable of landing a K.O. on the JLA.

The biggest kicker for majority, is the fact that his bursts alone would hit the entire team with geometrically more force than any standard "enraged Hulk punch" has been shown to do.

I look at like this-

A). "Normal" Hulk (typical rage) is equal or better than Thor and Gladiator in raw striking power.
B). Superman is likely above Thor/Gladiator in raw strength; but they are not leagues apart. A knockout could occur on either side in a given battle.
C). World Breaker is "Normal Hulk" to the 10th Power. INSANELY boosted.
D). If normal Hulk can match Thor, and Thor is in the same basic "durability league" as Superman, and World Breaker is geometrically more powerful than normal Hulk...
E). Then WB, by simple contrast, should also be geometrically stronger than Thor.
F). If you take Thor and increase his power tenfold or better- he should own Superman.
G). World Breaker HAS that strength level by definition. And his Gamma Bursts allow him to hit every person on the planet at once. That degree of damage from a radius attack is an incredible equalizer for JLA power-set diversity.

When you factor in the actual character personalities at work (Superman holding back at first, no one knowing what they are facing at first, etc.)- the chances that Hulk will land a full powered Gamma Burst prior to the team understanding the scope of their foe is quite high.

And a single Gamma Burst that can turn a Herald Class Foe into dust is more than enough to lay out the vast majority of the JLA, and stun the ones who survive/cling to consciousness.

This is without even factoring in an "active" attack from Hulk.
A blitz of smashes from Super Hulk Prime here would likely drop any JLA member that tanks a point blank blast that can dust billions of foes at once, including multiple Class 100 heavies.

Can JLA win? Or course. I can come with a thousand scenarios for either side.

But if these characters acted in character; the JLA would be a group of high powered heroes with morality turned on who have no idea what they are facing.

While WB Hulk is an "already Mega Class hitter" that has been amped to ridiculous levels and has morality turned off. He doesn't care what he is facing- he is not holding back and he is going for the kill from the gate.

The JLA would not follow this mindset. And cannot afford the luxury of not following this mindset against WB Hulk.

Thus, this battle falls to the hands of the uber-boosted Gamma Doomsday.

In a comic DCNU JL wins. In a Forum fight JL wins.

The only chance for WBH to win this is, CIS off for him and CIS on for the JL.

That means Forum WBH, like Forum SS or anyone else will have the first move and use instantly everything you can come up with. If you let him fight an "comic" JL they will let him do what he wants and just react. Against an Forum JL they will use their far superior speed instantly and stomp the sh1t out of him.

In a comic, with CIS on, they might have a harder time, because they will wait and see but with their devices, speed and power it's still a solid majority.

In a DC/Marvel crossover, Superman would still solo .

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
In a comic DCNU JL wins. In a Forum fight JL wins.

The only chance for WBH to win this is, CIS off for him and CIS on for the JL.

That means Forum WBH, like Forum SS or anyone else will have the first move and use instantly everything you can come up with. If you let him fight an "comic" JL they will let him do what he wants and just react. Against an Forum JL they will use their far superior speed instantly and stomp the sh1t out of him.

In a comic, with CIS on, they might have a harder time, because they will wait and see but with their devices, speed and power it's still a solid majority.

In a DC/Marvel crossover, Superman would still solo .

World Breaker is Hulk with morals off by definition.
To apply morals to him, you would need to add CIS.
As shown in HotM; Hulk is there to kill things, gloves off, over and over again.

It's akin to saying "DOS Doomsday with morality turned on"- there really is no such thing.

The JLA, by contrast, are not monsters. And they do have morality on. They are superheroes led by one of the biggest boy scouts in comic history.

Hulk would go for the kill. Superman would eat it on the chin while still deciding how hard he can punch without killing "this odd glowing green guy."

And that is a big part of why the JLA lose here.

@ McAbe- On a side note, I do enjoy your debating style. We are bound to disagree on this one, but your posting style has been most amusing to read in other debates.

Hulk via speedblitz

World benching Superman rips any version of Hulk apart.

Doubtful.

WWHulk had planetary feats of his own, long before going World Breaker.

At World Breaker Level, he was able to disintegrate foes ranging from High Class 100 to Herald Class, without even needing to punch them.
The power hike was ludicrously high. It really is Marvel's version of "Super Hulk Prime."
Add that Hulk in this form was as much energy as flesh, he was eradicating entire worlds, ignoring hits from Fing Fang Foom, Arm'Cheddon, Bi-Beast and billions of demons at the same time, with absolutely no noted affect AND battling a magically enhanced RSHulk at the same time.
Nothing was stopping him. Or even slowing him.
Considering the fact that Hulk's other abilities amp along with his strength, God only knows how fast he was healing at this point.

This an incarnation this pretty much beyond conventional damage.

Weird debaters here. Just outright weird.

Im waiting you explain why Flash needs to grab Hulk to BFR him.

I'm waiting on you to show me Flash speeding through an OMNI blast. Also, how many times out of 10 will Flash attempt that move.

LoL. Do you believe WBH will react first or you believe intangibility dont work against omni attacks ? Or you think WBH is faster than Grood with aceleration force ? I dont understand your point.

After he learned he could BFR people, he was in a situation like This only one time. And he used that...

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
LoL. Do you believe WBH will react first or you believe intangibility dont work against omni attacks ? Or you think WBH is faster than Grood with aceleration force ? I dont understand your point.

After he learned he could BFR people, he was in a situation like This only one time. And he used that...

It's not about reacting first...Hulk will start the battle off with the blast around him.

The proof is on you to show us him moving through an OMNI attack...not me. Also, he has used this trick once, why are you making it seem like it is something he would do right off the bat?

Vibrate to a wall = all body get intangible = omni blast went work. What is your point ? Why a omni blast will affect intagibility.

Thats Nice to see your saying " if Flash act like you say, he wins, but he will not".

Flash has a capability of thinking infinity differents strategys to a battle. Thats not hard to see he will find out BFR is the solution in This fight.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Vibrate to a wall = all body get intangible = omni blast went work. What is your point ? Why a omni blast will affect intagibility.

Thats Nice to see your saying " if Flash act like you say, he wins, but he will not".

Flash has a capability of thinking infinity differents strategys to a battle. Thats not hard to see he will find out BFR is the solution in This fight.

Him accelerating his atoms doesn't mean he can do it through every object, especially energy.

Show us Flash bfring someone more than once and you'll have a legit case. It's an option but it's an implausible one. Show me him vibrating through energy.

GL construct is energy, right ?

http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/eaebiakuya/Flash%20DCNU/vibrarconstruto_zpscec5de80.jpg

And since when we have This "do more than one time" rule ? He learned that and never had to use again after This fight. It was not so long ago.

If we know he can do that, and he used in a situation against a stronger enemy, cant see why is so hard to believe he would do that in a no PIS match ?

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
GL construct is energy, right ?

http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/eaebiakuya/Flash%20DCNU/vibrarconstruto_zpscec5de80.jpg

And since when we have This "do more than one time" rule ? He learned that and never had to use again after This fight. It was not so long ago.

If we know he can do that, and he used in a situation against a stronger enemy, cant see why is so hard to believe he would do that in a no PIS match ?

Exactly. Saying "he can do it, he just won't" when it's a perfectly viable tactic is the most retarded argument I've ever heard. When people result to such, it's admission of defeat imo.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
GL construct is energy, right ?

http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/eaebiakuya/Flash%20DCNU/vibrarconstruto_zpscec5de80.jpg

And since when we have This "do more than one time" rule ? He learned that and never had to use again after This fight. It was not so long ago.

If we know he can do that, and he used in a situation against a stronger enemy, cant see why is so hard to believe he would do that in a no PIS match ?

Your doing good. Name the most powerful person Flash bfred. Also, we don't debate off powerset...personalities is still in play.

You have to tell me why WBH cant be teleported away. Cant see why phisical strengh can stop a BFR like This.

He only BFR Grood( with aceleration force), a being far faster than WBH. Hulk certantly cant run from This attack.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
You have to tell me why WBH cant be teleported away. Cant see why phisical strengh can stop a BFR like This.

He only BFR Grood( with aceleration force), a being far faster than WBH. Hulk certantly cant run from This attack.

How many times out of 10 would Flash do this? Remember, personalities is still in play. Flash has starred in numerous of comics outside of this so why doesn't he use this tactic when him and the JLA are losing?

lol I love how superspeed is extrapolated in forum fights to the point where these characters are basically just skewed power sets and not the actual characters using them.

The fact of the matter is that when this Hulk throws a fist, even without directly hitting anyone, they're going to feel the aftermath of it. Nobody on the League is packing that kind of offensive power let alone the durability to endure it. The League has to have things play very specifically in order to win this whereas all Hulk has to do is try attacking them.

Originally posted by carver9
How many times out of 10 would Flash do this? Remember, personalities is still in play. Flash has starred in numerous of comics outside of this so why doesn't he use this tactic when him and the JLA are losing?

The record is 1/1. In trinity war Flash get depowered. Also This is a non PIS match. Dont use a power without reason = pis, also in a similar situation, he used.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
The record is 1/1. In trinity war Flash get depowered. Also This is a non PIS match. Dont use a power without reason = pis.

You are still failing to realize that personality is still on. 'We do not debate based off powerset, we still use on panel showings and depictions while talking about these characters. Debating in your fashion, Surfer beats everyone and their grandmomma in the Herald tier.

Now again, Flash bfring right off the bat...is that something consistent for the character? If so, provide scans proving it. One time isn't enough.

Superman flies through his head then HV his corpse to end it for good.

This is getting silly, so if people can't be realistic and provide some actual , logical way for the League to have a chance, then I'm closing it.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
lol I love how superspeed is extrapolated in forum fights to the point where these characters are basically just skewed power sets and not the actual characters using them. "Kal-uenza"

Not fair for Hulk.

Originally posted by carver9
You are still failing to realize that personality is still on. 'We do not debate based off powerset, we still use on panel showings and depictions while talking about these characters. Debating in your fashion, Surfer beats everyone and their grandmomma in the Herald tier.

Now again, Flash bfring right off the bat...is that something consistent for the character? If so, provide scans proving it. One time isn't enough.

And you fail to realize the Full Capacity rule is still in effect. If Flash has done it before, he could do it again. He has the capability to do such, in a forum fight it makes sense.

Originally posted by -Pr-
This is getting silly, so if people can't be realistic and provide some actual , logical way for the League to have a chance, then I'm closing it.

To have a chance? They win this solidly.

They Boom Tube him away like they did Darkseid.

Originally posted by -Pr-
This is getting silly, so if people can't be realistic and provide some actual , logical way for the League to have a chance, then I'm closing it.

Sorri, but can you tell me what is wrong against Flash BFR way ?

The only argument that carver bring was" he will not do that". Thats like admit Flash would win via BFR.

I provide the scans and you can find in This thread.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Sorri, but can you tell me what is wrong against Flash BFR way ?

The only argument that carver bring was" he will not do that". Thats like admit Flash would win via BFR.

I provide the scans and you can find in This thread.

I never said he wouldnt. I said he wouldn't do it for the majority. Bfring is a desperate move anyways. A cop out.

Originally posted by carver9
You are still failing to realize that personality is still on. 'We do not debate based off powerset, we still use on panel showings and depictions while talking about these characters. Debating in your fashion, Surfer beats everyone and their grandmomma in the Herald tier.

Now again, Flash bfring right off the bat...is that something consistent for the character? If so, provide scans proving it. One time isn't enough.

Thats not hard to happen. Fight starts,Flash see Superman being overpowered, he vibrate against shockwaves, then he calcs the best strategy and BFR Hulk.

Flash using his super Brain to discover the best strategy against a enemy or a situation is a thing he done some times in his comic book.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Thats not hard to happen. Fight starts,Flash see Superman being overpowered, he vibrate against shockwaves, then he calcs the best strategy and BFR Hulk.

Flash using his super Brain to discover the best strategy against a enemy or a situation is a thing he done some times in his comic book. Except in pretty much every team fight he's been involved in so far since DCnU started.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Thats not hard to happen. Fight starts,Flash see Superman being overpowered, he vibrate against shockwaves, then he calcs the best strategy and BFR Hulk.

Flash using his super Brain to discover the best strategy against a enemy or a situation is a thing he done some times in his comic book.

So you admit, with this strategy and calculating brain of Flash, he can beat HP Doomsday, Thanos, Superman Prime for the majority?

Originally posted by ODG
Except in pretty much every team fight he's been involved in so far since DCnU started.

Originally posted by ODG
Except in pretty much every team fight he's been involved in so far since DCnU started.

PiS.

Wouldn't be a very exciting issue of JL if Flash did everything.

It's not PIS. It's how Flash fights. In character, he doesn't became the Avatar of the Speed Force and toss out IMPs, steal speed, vibrate though people, Speed Force dump, or do even half of the crazy and absurd stuff people love arguing him doing.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
"Kal-uenza"

Originally posted by Odekahn
PiS.

Wouldn't be a very exciting issue of JL if Flash did everything.

I like your posting style. But I agree with Carver on this point.
PIS occurs when a writer ignores a power-set in a one-off setting (i.e.- when they ignore the "norm" for the character simply to advance their writing plot).

However; CIS occurs when a character limits himself by virtue of personality and/or by typical fighting style.

Thor (for example) could BFR or Godblast most foes from the gate.
But he doesn't.
Part is preference- he doesn't want to kill if he doesn't need to. And he likes battle.
Part is simply "how he tends to fight"- it would not naturally occur to Thor to begin each battle with a BFR or Godblast.
He simply does not fight that way.
He will "if" he realizes that this is the ONLY way to win.
But if not, he "chooses" to be a brick/blaster.

By the same note- Flash will not begin a match with a BFR into the Flash Force, or anything akin to this.
He will not risk that his foe cannot survive the trip.
Much like Thor- Flash "chooses" to be a speedster that relies on fast strikes and dodging.
He "can" do more, and will if it is absolutely needed.
But he does not, nor has he ever, begun a fight with a brand-new foe, by BFRing him or I.M. punching him.
That is not Flash.
That is how certain fans would fight "if they had Flash's powers."

That's what Carver is saying about personality.
It's not just morality.
It's "everything" about the character's fighting style and choice making matrix.
It's the reason that Prof. X doesn't mind wipe every Magneto.
It's the reason that Superman didn't throw Doomsday into the Sun.

And it's the reason that Flash doesn't start out a fight with an instant win/instant murder tactic.

It's not that "cannot", it is simply that he historically has proven that he "does not."
It is simply not how he tends to open combat.
He's not Zoom. He's not Wolverine. He's not Thanos.
He's a good guy. On a good guy team. With all the boons and baggage that comes with it...
Including risking (and often eating) a loss, due to the fact he chooses to gauge his foe's power level prior to hitting them with what may amount to a killing blow.

That's not PIS. That's character design.

Such is my opinion anyway.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's not PIS. It's how Flash fights. In character, he doesn't became the Avatar of the Speed Force and toss out IMPs, steal speed, vibrate though people, Speed Force dump, or do even half of the crazy and absurd stuff people love arguing him doing.





Exactly. Well said, Jake. I've been digging your posts too.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's not PIS. It's how Flash fights. In character, he doesn't became the Avatar of the Speed Force and toss out IMPs, steal speed, vibrate though people, Speed Force dump, or do even half of the crazy and absurd stuff people love arguing him doing.








@Jax...

Jake is a reasonable poster. Non biased at all.

Will somebody please break down what's happening in this thread regarding full capacity vs in character? Please don't embellish, finger point or show bias.

WBH is too much for them.

Originally posted by Badabing
Will somebody please break down what's happening in this thread regarding full capacity vs in character? Please don't embellish, finger point or show bias.

This is how it got brought up. A tactic was mentioned via speed BFR and then it was dismissed due to the number of times it's been used.

Originally posted by carver9
How many times out of 10 would Flash do this? Remember, personalities is still in play. Flash has starred in numerous of comics outside of this so why doesn't he use this tactic when him and the JLA are losing?

Originally posted by jaxthejester
I like your posting style. But I agree with Carver on this point.
PIS occurs when a writer ignores a power-set in a one-off setting (i.e.- when they ignore the "norm" for the character simply to advance their writing plot).

However; CIS occurs when a character limits himself by virtue of personality and/or by typical fighting style.

Thor (for example) could BFR or Godblast most foes from the gate.
But he doesn't.
Part is preference- he doesn't want to kill if he doesn't need to. And he likes battle.
Part is simply "how he tends to fight"- it would not naturally occur to Thor to begin each battle with a BFR or Godblast.
He simply does not fight that way.
He will "if" he realizes that this is the ONLY way to win.
But if not, he "chooses" to be a brick/blaster.

By the same note- Flash will not begin a match with a BFR into the Flash Force, or anything akin to this.
He will not risk that his foe cannot survive the trip.
Much like Thor- Flash "chooses" to be a speedster that relies on fast strikes and dodging.
He "can" do more, and will if it is absolutely needed.
But he does not, nor has he ever, begun a fight with a brand-new foe, by BFRing him or I.M. punching him.
That is not Flash.
That is how certain fans would fight "if they had Flash's powers."

That's what Carver is saying about personality.
It's not just morality.
It's "everything" about the character's fighting style and choice making matrix.
It's the reason that Prof. X doesn't mind wipe every Magneto.
It's the reason that Superman didn't throw Doomsday into the Sun.

And it's the reason that Flash doesn't start out a fight with an instant win/instant murder tactic.

It's not that "cannot", it is simply that he historically has proven that he "does not."
It is simply not how he tends to open combat.
He's not Zoom. He's not Wolverine. He's not Thanos.
He's a good guy. On a good guy team. With all the boons and baggage that comes with it...
Including risking (and often eating) a loss, due to the fact he chooses to gauge his foe's power level prior to hitting them with what may amount to a killing blow.

That's not PIS. That's character design.

Such is my opinion anyway.

Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power level

Originally posted by Odekahn
this is how it got brought up. A tactic was mentioned via speed BFR and then it was dismissed due to the number of times it's actually been used in comics. I see, thank you. I was just curious is all.

Well, this is directly from the rules and has been since before I joined KMC: "It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels."

It's not like anyone saying Flash is going to kill, that would be out of character. I would think that people would debate whether Flash could speed BFR somebody on WBH's level. That's just my opinion.

Originally posted by Badabing

It's not like anyone saying Flash is going to kill, that would be out of character. I would think that people would debate whether Flash could speed BFR somebody on WBH's level. That's just my opinion.

Exactly

And it's an understandable opinion too. I like the approach of using a boom tube to BFR him like they did Darkseid.

Originally posted by Badabing
I see, thank you. I was just curious is all.

Well, this is directly from the rules and has been since before I joined KMC: "It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels."

It's not like anyone saying Flash is going to kill, that would be out of character. I would think that people would debate whether Flash could speed BFR somebody on WBH's level. That's just my opinion.


Well, that would mean Hulk loses and you know Carvster.

Originally posted by Badabing
I see, thank you. I was just curious is all.

Well, this is directly from the rules and has been since before I joined KMC: "It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels."

It's not like anyone saying Flash is going to kill, that would be out of character. I would think that people would debate whether Flash could speed BFR somebody on WBH's level. That's just my opinion.

It is a good opinion, friend. And well stated. But I do believe that an element is missing from it.

"fight to their best ability, but still within the character's personality "

The last part of that sentence is a direct reference to the fact that a character's personality still dictates how they are most likely to apply that "maximum potential."

How a characters reacts to a given threat directly determines what their most likely attack scheme will be. Prior on-panel fights dictate this norm.
And it is not always a "light speed BFR" or an "Infinite Mass Punch."
A character's attack scheme is highly context sensitive to the situation at hand.
And it is often determined after an initial assessment is first made.

For example :

A character will not typically BFR someone if they think they can land a K.O.
There is no reason to force a temporary retreat when they can simply end the threat.
Thus a BFR is not always the "best potential move" for a given encounter.
Keep in mind that the hero has no idea at first who or what they are facing here. They don't even know if a BFR will work yet, or if the foe can teleport (and thus come right back).
They need some assessment time.

Here is a great analogy for this :

How do you think that a "Flash vs. Kingpin" match would play out?

What would you think of when picturing this match in your head?
Keep in mind the sum of all of Flash's past encounters, and take into account his typical tactics and reactions to "brand new" villains.
He has no idea how powerful Kingpin is or what he can do.
What would Flash do when he sees a giant "brick" with an unknown power level?

I personally believe that Flash would be most likely to open by blitzing Kingpin out with a flurry of super fast punches.
This follows the norm for Flash, and it lets him assess the threat.
Based on Flash's past encounters- I find this to be the most likely opening move when facing a new foe of unknown power level.

Thus by contrast-

I find it exceedingly unlikely that Flash would open combat by instead charging Kingpin at maximum speed and BFRing him into the Speed Force to take care of him.

This is not to say that Flash lacks this power option.
It is not that he "could not." He can. He has the power to act "at his highest potential."
I am instead saying he "would not." Because it would make no sense to him to enact such an opening move.

1. He has no idea who this foe is, or if they can survive the trip.
2. If he goes for a "harmless BFR" then he is choosing to drop off a potentially deadly foe, when he could have instead knocked them out and had them placed in prison.
3. And simply put- Flash's history shows that he is FAR more likely to respond to an unknown threat with typical speedster attack schemes.

Now if Flash tried to speed blitz Kingpin, and it had no effect- then one could indeed argue that Flash would take things up to the extreme.
If he simply cannot harm his foe at all, it would be logical to BFR them for the sake of survival.

But to think that Flash would open every single fight with an immediate light speed BFR seems unreasonable.
Not all characters should be BFRd. What about the ones that teleport right back? How would Flash know what he is facing here?

No, I believe that it is far more likely that Flash would react to virtually any new foe with a standard "speed dodge and punch blitz" combo, as opposed to "charging them full-boar" from the gate and pushing himself to the breaking point to rip open a portal to BFR them.

That is all this truly boils down to: Probability.
If you believe that Flash would open more than 50% of all "first time met, random encounter" scenarios with an uber BFR attempt- then by all means, keep your stance. Such is your prerogative.
But if you believe that Flash is more likely to start out by using speed to attack his foe and determine first what it is, and second how to deal with it- then you and I are not in disagreement.

It's not that Flash cannot attempt this maneuver. He would- if and when he deemed it necessary.

But it is contrary to his personality and established fighting style to open every encounter with every foe by using this single maneuver.

That is not limiting his power. That is simply filtering it through his own common sense.
I.E.- Applying the "personality" side of that power/choice restriction.

Originally posted by jaxthejester


I like your posts. You've been a well-reasoned and articulate poster since I've read your posts - and I am NOT being sarcastic.

That said, I just want to raise a couple of points. If they seem combative or hostile, please don't take it in that manner.

You say, first of all, that Flash wouldn't do it right off the bat, and use the example of Kingpin. That's all and well, but we're not talking about a big fat guy in a white suit and a bitchin' pimp cane. We are talking about the Flash seeing this guy:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/8901484/Incredible_Hulks_635_005.jpg.html

There is NO way he starts a battle by running up and trying to punch him.

Secondly - you and others bring up the 'in character' rule. That's a fair point.

Pak, when creating the incarnation of WBH, went specifically out of his way to show how, in character, the Hulk does not kill. He holds back his power. He only unleashed it when he was sure they would all magically come back, or against Mindless Ones (which, by definition, are mindless). He is NOT, in character, just going to spam his energy blasts and planet destroying punches against people he has never seen before, and whom he does not know would be able to come back. CIS is still on, after all.

And with the Hulk, more than most characters, CIS is a pretty big deal. Hulk has always held himself back.

@Dark Saint. The issue is, that due to CIS hulk woundnt even go WBH mode on these opponents because one missed attack could very well level the field. However since the forum makes the hard distinction between WBH and just regular Greenscar (even tho no such distinction exists within the comic), then hulk attacking them while in this mode should be fair game.

WBh is Greenscar when he has stopped holding back in the comics....ergo the hulk with limits taken off...and with a very specific mindset..not holding back.. That mindset is imported into the thread as soon the character WBH and not just regular GreensScar is specified. He wouldn't suffer from the same CIS inhibitions that Green Scar does because he is by definition GreenScar without the inhibitions. In this case along as he believes the JLA are his enemies and there are no innocents around...he will come out swinging...and whether he lands or not..that's pretty much all that's needed.

Originally posted by Naija boy
@Dark Saint. The issue is, that due to CIS hulk woundnt even go WBH mode on these opponents because one missed attack could very well level the field. However since the forum makes the hard distinction between WBH and just regular Greenscar (even tho no such distinction exists within the comic), then hulk attacking them while in this mode should be fair game.

WBh is Greenscar when he has stopped holding back in the comics....ergo the hulk with limits taken off...and with a very specific mindset..not holding back.. That mindset is imported into the thread as soon the character WBH and not just regular GreensScar is specified. He wouldn't suffer from the same CIS inhibitions that Green Scar does because he is by definition GreenScar without the inhibitions. In this case along as he believes the JLA are his enemies and there are no innocents around...he will come out swinging...and whether he lands or not..that's pretty much all that's needed.

I actually agree with this, which is what my first point to jax was - this isn't the Kingpin that Flash is seeing on the battlefield. It's the guy who's got energy roiling off him in waves, whose every step is creating destruction etc etc.

Based on this, and we know Flash's analytical speeds (a second to us would be like years to him..) - it is, IMO, far fetched to think that he would lead with a flurry of superspeed punches.

To be fair... some people are giving Worldbreaker Hulk more credit than he deserves.

Ones does not need planetary level durability to withstand his regular hits. If we look at the fight, then we come to realize that the collision between Hulk and Red She-Hulk made thet planet blow up, kill everyone around and shatter few nearby planets, which is all great and good and still establishes him as a powerful being, but ...

... with that being said: We also saw them fighting regulary and their punches were not busting the planet.
In a way it's the same like it's for Thanos, who blew up a planet, when he collided with Drax, but in all of his other fights he had he never came close to such a level of destruction, when simply throwing fists.

... and with that being said: Worldbreaker Hulk still wins this fight easily. No one in the new Justice League has proven to have the durability to withstand his attacks and I'm not even talking about the planet-busting showing, but his regular hits, which at that point are still more amplified than anything we've ever seen before. Not even Superman has feats, which suggest that he is capable of taking all too many from these shots.

He fought Darkseid, but he got overwhelmed and Darkseid was even holding back, because he wanted him alive. All of his other opponents didn't have such a damage output yet. Helspont and guys like that have a lot of hype going on for them, but it's not really clear how powerful they truly are.

Originally posted by Enzeru
To be fair... some people are giving Worldbreaker Hulk more credit than he deserves.

Ones does not need planetary level durability to withstand his regular hits. If we look at the fight, then we come to realize that the collision between Hulk and Red She-Hulk made thet planet blow up, kill everyone around and shatter few nearby planets, which is all great and good and still establishes him as a powerful being, but ...

... with that being said: We also saw them fighting regulary and their punches were not busting the planet.
In a way it's the same like it's for Thanos, who blew up a planet, when he collided with Drax, but in all of his other fights he had he never came close to such a level of destruction, when simply throwing fists.

... and with that being said: Worldbreaker Hulk still wins this fight easily. No one in the new Justice League has proven to have the durability to withstand his attacks and I'm not even talking about the planet-busting showing, but his regular hits, which at that point are still more amplified than anything we've ever seen before. Not even Superman has feats, which suggest that he is capable of taking all too many from these shots.

He fought Darkseid, but he got overwhelmed and Darkseid was even holding back, because he wanted him alive. All of his other opponents didn't have such a damage output yet. Helspont and guys like that have a lot of hype going on for them, but it's not really clear how powerful they truly are.

In the Dark dimension....Hulk and Betty kept blowing up the planet and disintegrating everyone one around them indirectly with their hits on each other....over and over again while Hulks wish kept reforming the planet..rinse and repeat. And that was to go on virtually forever... It is not some kind of one time thing nor the same thing as Thanos vs Drax at all.

He and Red She hulk, dsintegrated an army of beings who were flat out stated to be to powerful in conjunction for a skyfather to put down in her own realm, Wendigo, bi beast, and Armcheddon as well as a highly amped Fing Fang Foom.....with the shockwave from indirect hits miles away. His direct punches would be astronomically more effectual than that residual shockwave ( Yes in actuality, billions of times more effectual) which would itself be enough to kill them. A direct hit at that level isnt needed but if he did happen to land one....im sure you can imagine it.

WBH wins. He punches The Speed Force out of existence, turning the Flash into a regular human in a red outfit. Then he punches DCnU out of existence, just for good measure.

Behold, DC Hulk Universe:

Hulkerman - faster than a speeding segway, able to leap tall Australians in a single bound, stronger than that fat kid with the PSP Vita.

Wonder Whoaman! - Greek Godess of PMS (PMT to some), able to channel the red rage of womandom from time immemorial, and smite her enemies from the face of the Earth.

The Gamma Green Lantern - Channelling the force of the cosmic GammaFather's rage, through their GL rings, the most powerful weapon in the universe.

...

If WBH is going HoTM, right from the start, then the JL are disintegrated instantly. They cannot withstand the energies coming from him, nevermind the backwash of any punches he may through.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I like your posts. You've been a well-reasoned and articulate poster since I've read your posts - and I am NOT being sarcastic.

Jax is always respectful and doesn't get upset when people disagree with him. He's a joy to have discussions with imo no matter if we agree or not.

With that said, I'd like to bring up another point.

If Superman or Flash is pissed off, they use and fight with their abilities way different than if they were just trying to stop a bank robber. Hulks anger is what gives him his power, so why is Hulk allowed to be in a pissed off mindset but not anyone else? It IS within Superman's character to blitz while angry and not holding back. The whole point in a VS forum fight is that both characters want to win. Thus the reason (imo) the full capacity rule was implemented.

Originally posted by Naija boy
In the Dark dimension....Hulk and Betty kept blowing up the planet and disintegrating everyone one around them indirectly with their hits on each other....over and over again while Hulks wish kept reforming the planet..rinse and repeat.

I know that.

My point was that they also had regular punch exchanges, while the other characters were talking after a resurrect.
That proves that not every punch the Hulk throws is not as devastating and some people might thing. It proves that the planet got destroyed, when they unleashed a bigger attack like for example a big collision between the two of them.

So in a way it's just like the Thanos instance, where he clashed with Drax and destroyed the planet, yet all of his other regular attacks are much more to the ground. It even proves further that the planet Thanos was on, when it got destroyed ... was actually quite small :-| It's a great showing for him nonetheless. A standard planetary level feat.

Originally posted by Enzeru
I know that.

My point was that they also had regular punch exchanges, while the other characters were talking after a resurrect.
That proves that not every punch the Hulk throws is not as devastating and some people might thing. It proves that the planet got destroyed, when they unleashed a bigger attack like for example a big collision between the two of them.

So in a way it's just like the Thanos instance, where he clashed with Drax and destroyed the planet, yet all of his other regular attacks are much more to the ground. It even proves further that the planet Thanos was on, when it got destroyed ... was actually quite small :-| It's a great showing for him nonetheless. A standard planetary level feat.

Originally posted by Enzeru
I know that.

My point was that they also had regular punch exchanges, while the other characters were talking after a resurrect.
That proves that not every punch the Hulk throws is not as devastating and some people might thing. It proves that the planet got destroyed, when they unleashed a bigger attack like for example a big collision between the two of them.

So in a way it's just like the Thanos instance, where he clashed with Drax and destroyed the planet, yet all of his other regular attacks are much more to the ground. It even proves further that the planet Thanos was on, when it got destroyed ... was actually quite small :-| It's a great showing for him nonetheless. A standard planetary level feat.

So that's all you got from that showing was planetary?.

Originally posted by carver9
So that's all you got from that showing planet]was planetary?.

Pretty much.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
WBH is too much for them.

Aquaman is their only hope.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Aquaman is their only hope.

He would take his trident and teach Banner what a popsicle feels like

I see that Odekahn is still lingering around in Hulk threads. I'm pretty sure he is voting against him as well.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Jax is always respectful and doesn't get upset when people disagree with him. He's a joy to have discussions with imo no matter if we agree or not.

With that said, I'd like to bring up another point.

If Superman or Flash is pissed off, they use and fight with their abilities way different than if they were just trying to stop a bank robber. Hulks anger is what gives him his power, so why is Hulk allowed to be in a pissed off mindset but not anyone else? It IS within Superman's character to blitz while angry and not holding back. The whole point in a VS forum fight is that both characters want to win. Thus the reason (imo) the full capacity rule was implemented.

Thanks man. You bring up a helluva point- Why is the deck stacked so much in Hulk's favor here?

It is certainly fair to ask.

This is my take on the issue that folks are seeing with this particular match up:

IMHO- The reason that Hulk is getting the "morals off" treatment here, and the JLA is not, is based simply on the title of the incarnations applied.

If this were simply "Green Scar vs. The JLA", then Hulk would have morality on.
If this were "Green Scar vs. Blood Lusted JLA", then Hulk would the one at a disadvantage.

But this is "World Breaker" vs. the JLA.
And World Breaker is a specific power level AND mind-set for Hulk.
It is Hulk with all morality turned off. He is a killer by definition.

Now if the title of this match were "Superman after watching Wonder Woman and Lois get ripped in half by Hulk vs. World Breaker"- then I would agree that the sides would be equal when it comes to extreme initial reactions.

But the Thread Maker designed this as "normal JLA" vs. "insanely power-boosted murdering Hulk."

Which, as you correctly noted, is not a fair match.
It highly favors Hulk by design.
But then, Hulk is also facing the entire JLA here. So the question that the Threat Maker is asking seems to be this:

Can the JLA, with normal personality and morality restrictions, take on Hulk at his most powerful/most murderous state, and hope to win a majority given these conditions?

http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad138/jaxthejester/WorldBreaker_zps6a6e79f5.jpg
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad138/jaxthejester/worldbreaker2_zpsc7ff5d1e.jpg
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad138/jaxthejester/hulksurvivesburst_zps4465d504.jpg

...I would have to say no. But I also accept that such is my stance, and not everyone is going to share it.

Great post bud!

Guys, no one is talking about I.m punches. DCnu Flash dont even has This power. I think most of people here just dont know new 52 Flash.

1 - He used the power of his Super Brain a plenty of times in his comic. The power is: calculate every single possible cenario before act. Since he used it some times, I ask: not using This power dont configurate PIS ?

2 - When he faced a stronger enemy - Grood with aceleration force - he came with a conclusion: the only way to save the City is BFR. Do you guys think that is hard to think " if we fight here, the green monster will destroy the City and many people will die."

3 - A possible cenario is: he see Superman being overpowered + the colateral damage of the fight,, he vibrates/avoid the shockwaves, then he calcs to find out the best solution: a easy way would be the BFR to aceleration force.

If Hulk fights anyone, the shockwaves from his swing would kill Flash along with some of the other members of the JLA (it would probably take out the entire group).

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Guys, no one is talking about I.m punches. DCnu Flash dont even has This power. I think most of people here just dont know new 52 Flash.

1 - He used the power of his Super Brain a plenty of times in his comic. The power is: calculate every single possible cenario before act. Since he used it some times, I ask: not using This power dont configurate PIS ?

2 - When he faced a stronger enemy - Grood with aceleration force - he came with a conclusion: the only way to save the City is BFR. Do you guys think that is hard to think " if we fight here, the green monster will destroy the City and many people will die."

3 - A possible cenario is: he see Superman being overpowered + the colateral damage of the fight,, he vibrates/avoid the shockwaves, then he calcs to find out the best solution: a easy way would be the BFR to aceleration force.

"When he faced a stronger enemy - Grood with aceleration force - he came with a conclusion"

I honestly think that the only real difference we have is how we interpret the last part of what you just posted:

"He came to a conclusion."

He had to get there first. He did not start out with said conclusion.
That's all I'm really saying here.

At first, he will not know what Hulk is.
After a few rounds, sure. But not immediately.

Folks were arguing that Flash would go for an immediate light speed BFR.
That is not how he reacts until "after" he knows what his foe can do.
Not prior.

Even the fastest brain on Earth still needs to rely on the actions of others prior to gathering needed data.
Someone needs to interact with Hulk before Flash knows the nature of the Beast he is facing.
And that interaction will take a few moments to play out.

Thus the "come to the conclusion" part that you noted.

Deciding how to react to any given threat typically first requires understanding what the threat is, and what it can do.

Originally posted by jaxthejester
Thanks man. You bring up a helluva point- Why is the deck stacked so much in Hulk's favor here?

It is certainly fair to ask.

This is my take on the issue that folks are seeing with this particular match up:

IMHO- The reason that Hulk is getting the "morals off" treatment here, and the JLA is not, is based simply on the title of the incarnations applied.

If this were simply "Green Scar vs. The JLA", then Hulk would have morality on.
If this were "Green Scar vs. Blood Lusted JLA", then Hulk would the one at a disadvantage.

But this is "World Breaker" vs. the JLA.
And World Breaker is a specific power level AND mind-set for Hulk.
It is Hulk with all morality turned off. He is a killer by definition.

Now if the title of this match were "Superman after watching Wonder Woman and Lois get ripped in half by Hulk vs. World Breaker"- then I would agree that the sides would be equal when it comes to extreme initial reactions.

But the Thread Maker designed this as "normal JLA" vs. "insanely power-boosted murdering Hulk."

Which, as you correctly noted, is not a fair match.
It highly favors Hulk by design.
But then, Hulk is also facing the entire JLA here. So the question that the Threat Maker is asking seems to be this:

Can the JLA, with normal personality and morality restrictions, take on Hulk at his most powerful/most murderous state, and hope to win a majority given these conditions?

http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad138/jaxthejester/WorldBreaker_zps6a6e79f5.jpg
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad138/jaxthejester/worldbreaker2_zpsc7ff5d1e.jpg
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad138/jaxthejester/hulksurvivesburst_zps4465d504.jpg

...I would have to say no. But I also accept that such is my stance, and not everyone is going to share it.

Great post bud!

I agree with everything you've said here, and if you were to literally pluck the characters from the comics it would play out exactly in the way you've stated. I just feel that in a forum fight the characters are trying, within their personalities and powersets of course, and fully understand the intention is to "win the fight" rather than their usual mindset of "stop the monster". Depending on the circumstances, neither view would be "out of character" imo.

I still stand by the stance that the League would BFR via Boom Tube like they did to Darkseid. With Orion on the team here it's the obvious choice.

Really no point in leaving this open. WBH would win, but some of the arguments on both sides are laughable. Some people...