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Random encounter:

- No prep
- Bloodlust on
- Location: Walmart parking lot at 3:00 AM (No Civilians Nearby)

They can't do a thing to Cage.

yeah, team 2 takes it handily for a heavy majority, unless we take into account elektra's tp. if she can incapacitate cage somehow, or perhaps trick him into fighting on their side, team 1 can take it. i wouldn't say that would happen often though out of 10.

Iron fist wins

Not looking well for team 1

Originally posted by carver9
They can't do a thing to Cage.

1) Pressure points worked on him before.

2) Elektra's sai pierced She-Rulk with no trouble.

I wouldn't write off team one here at all. Matt has stalemated and or defeated Danny every thine they have crossed. Cage only has impervious skin the organs below are just as susceptible to damage as those of anyone else. Considering that Matt has taken on and taken down Tombstone who is more durable in many ways than Cage while fighting someone else ( a swordsman IIRC).

I see no reason why DD can't take down Cage with pressure points and considering how much trouble DD has every time he fights Elektra she should be equally able to give Danny trouble.

Not by any means calling a win either way. Matt and Danny are my two fav Marvel characters (with Longshot, Thor and Hellstrom they are in my top 5 for Marvel ). I will say that over recent years Danny has been greatly improved so mat's showing against would be difficult to repeat, but certainly not enough to completely rule out team 1.

t2 easily

Team 2 wins.

Cage could be a nightmare for Daredevil (thunderclap):
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111122629/3492842-2533740206-23012.png

But his vulnerability to pressure point attacks are still there.

However, IF could take them on.

Oh please Cage doing a thunderclap is pure and utter PIS. 25 ton strength just isn't enough to make any sort of decent shockwave.

How is cage any better than

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/1051831-img011iy9.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/1051833-img013zq5.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/1051836-img016ri8.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/1051835-img015pw6.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/1051834-img014hx2.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/1051837-img017vl4__1_.jpg.html

Yeah Cage is going to be so much more of a threat to Matt than Tombstone who DD fought for 6 pages while fighting others and put down.

As for Danny
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/Daredevil_178p.jpg.html

That's at least one time out of several when Danny couldn't even lay a glove on Matt. Now admittedly for two of them it went two way for the others it was Matt who had the upper hand. Elektra on the other hand has had no problem laying hands on Matt

Originally posted by beatboks
Oh please Cage doing a thunderclap is pure and utter PIS. 25 ton strength just isn't enough to make any sort of decent shockwave.

How is cage any better than

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/1051831-img011iy9.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/1051833-img013zq5.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/1051836-img016ri8.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/1051835-img015pw6.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/1051834-img014hx2.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/1051837-img017vl4__1_.jpg.html

Yeah Cage is going to be so much more of a threat to Matt than Tombstone who DD fought for 6 pages while fighting others and put down.

As for Danny
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/Daredevil_178p.jpg.html

That's at least one time out of several when Danny couldn't even lay a glove on Matt. Now admittedly for two of them it went two way for the others it was Matt who had the upper hand. Elektra on the other hand has had no problem laying hands on Matt

Good scans. He won with BFR against Tombstone, though, and this is a featureless environment (not to mention, no sledgehammer here).

Daredevil also broke his hands and feet when attempting to fight Kingpin...and Cage is significantly more durable than KP.

Tombstone got knocked out, next to last panel.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Tombstone got knocked out, next to last panel.

He was merely enjoying a refreshing dip. That look (which I missed before) is the look of bliss sneer.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Good scans. He won with BFR against Tombstone, though, and this is a featureless environment (not to mention, no sledgehammer here).

Daredevil also broke his hands and feet when attempting to fight Kingpin...and Cage is significantly more durable than KP.

Pertinent facts to remember
1. DD was fighting someone else as well as Lonnie
2. Lonnie is more skilled than Cage, let's not forget he was a threat to Spidey ( and able to take him) long before he gained his powers.
3. Dad was alone, here he has help ( though Elektra will be busy with Danny)
4. Lonnie has less morals than Luke so would likely have been fighting harder

I could just as easily have posted scans on the time DD took down Namor as he flew, or when he took on 4 or 5 Abengers single handedly, or then men, but anyone with a brain would know they were PIS

Originally posted by beatboks
Pertinent facts to remember
1. DD was fighting someone else as well as Lonnie
2. Lonnie is more skilled than Cage, let's not forget he was a threat to Spidey ( and able to take him) long before he gained his powers.
3. Dad was alone, here he has help ( though Elektra will be busy with Danny)
4. Lonnie has less morals than Luke so would likely have been fighting harder

I could just as easily have posted scans on the time DD took down Namor as he flew, or when he took on 4 or 5 Abengers single handedly, or then men, but anyone with a brain would know they were PIS

All good points:

1. With regards to this one, in the fight, Tombstone and Matador were getting in each other's way (Tombstone even knocks Matador away in page 4)
2. Agreed.
3. Agreed. Saying that, Cage also has help here, and him and Danny will be more used to fighting alongside each other than T and Matador.
4. Debateable. Luke can and does give it his all when fighting.

TS and Cage fought in 616. Scans were posted a long time ago, but Luke looked better, iirc.

Cage's recent upgrades put him closer to class 50 or more.

Not to mention neither of team one can take hits from either of team two's members.

Don't be so sure, DD survived the encounter with Savage Hulk and Elektra took hits from Skrullossus.

Originally posted by beatboks
Oh please Cage doing a thunderclap is pure and utter PIS. 25 ton strength just isn't enough to make any sort of decent shockwave.

How is cage any better than

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/1051831-img011iy9.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/1051833-img013zq5.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/1051836-img016ri8.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/1051835-img015pw6.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/1051834-img014hx2.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/1051837-img017vl4__1_.jpg.html

Yeah Cage is going to be so much more of a threat to Matt than Tombstone who DD fought for 6 pages while fighting others and put down.

As for Danny
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/daredevil/Daredevil_178p.jpg.html

That's at least one time out of several when Danny couldn't even lay a glove on Matt. Now admittedly for two of them it went two way for the others it was Matt who had the upper hand. Elektra on the other hand has had no problem laying hands on Matt You are aware that Cage beat the ever loving crap out of Tombstone and Nitro at the same time right(and that was back when he was still just a 15 tonner)?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Don't be so sure, DD survived the encounter with Savage Hulk and Elektra took hits from Skrullossus. okay, let me re-word it.

If either survived an iron fist/non holding back cage punch it would be a very high outlier.

Originally posted by beatboks
I wouldn't write off team one here at all. Matt has stalemated and or defeated Danny every thine they have crossed. Cage only has impervious skin the organs below are just as susceptible to damage as those of anyone else. Considering that Matt has taken on and taken down Tombstone who is more durable in many ways than Cage while fighting someone else ( a swordsman IIRC).

I see no reason why DD can't take down Cage with pressure points and considering how much trouble DD has every time he fights Elektra she should be equally able to give Danny trouble.

Steel Serpent did better against Spidey then Matt ever has, though.

Even accounting for Spidey holding back, as he'd do against both, it's a point for Iron Fist.

Davos as of the Immortal City arc would stomp his older self and pre powerup Danny at the same time. And he was still nothing to current Danny.

Originally posted by cdtm
Steel Serpent did better against Spidey then Matt ever has, though.

Even accounting for Spidey holding back, as he'd do against both, it's a point for Iron Fist.

Davos as of the Immortal City arc would stomp his older self and pre powerup Danny at the same time. And he was still nothing to current Danny.

I made no mention of Spidey in the post you quoted. I mentioned fight Matt had with Danny and against a powered Tombstone. Lonnie gave Pete trouble BEFORE he had powers and Matt has take Him down since. Those powers are equal to Cage in strength and above in durability and Lonnie is a better more skilled combatant than Cage ( hence why he was a problem for Spidey as a normal human). Lonnie is faster than Cage and his durbility goes to a little more than just his skin.

Yes Danny has been upgraded with regards the IF but not in skill and in skill he has only ever been a match for Matt while Elektra has been Matt's superior. I could go through and bring up scans of Matt taking on Namor and causing him trouble, engaging the Avengers ( Cap, Herc, Giantman and Ironman ) and also giving them trouble when they were trying to bring somone into federal custody and deny his civil rights. Matt has taken on vastly more powerful and capable opponents and done well because he's smart and agile. Neither Cage or Danny have reaction feats to match Matt and there is no reason to assume he can't avoid them for as long as he needs he's managed to even evade the senses of BP and Logan when the need arose.

I'm not even saying team 1 wins just that it's closer than Many here are saying and arguments can be made for both sides

Danny 100/10

Just curious, how much strength do you guys think would be required for a thunderclap?

Originally posted by beatboks
I made no mention of Spidey in the post you quoted. I mentioned fight Matt had with Danny and against a powered Tombstone. Lonnie gave Pete trouble BEFORE he had powers and Matt has take Him down since. Those powers are equal to Cage in strength and above in durability and Lonnie is a better more skilled combatant than Cage ( hence why he was a problem for Spidey as a normal human). Lonnie is faster than Cage and his durbility goes to a little more than just his skin.

Yes Danny has been upgraded with regards the IF but not in skill and in skill he has only ever been a match for Matt while Elektra has been Matt's superior. I could go through and bring up scans of Matt taking on Namor and causing him trouble, engaging the Avengers ( Cap, Herc, Giantman and Ironman ) and also giving them trouble when they were trying to bring somone into federal custody and deny his civil rights. Matt has taken on vastly more powerful and capable opponents and done well because he's smart and agile. Neither Cage or Danny have reaction feats to match Matt and there is no reason to assume he can't avoid them for as long as he needs he's managed to even evade the senses of BP and Logan when the need arose.

I'm not even saying team 1 wins just that it's closer than Many here are saying and arguments can be made for both sides

matt has some GREAT feats, but any character can say the same and some of what you mentioned weren't really that great. he danced around namor for a while and frustrated him, he jumped around the avengers who never attacked him. he's done well agaisnt cap and spidey often enough though among many others. danny has his share of uber feats too though, and danny has at least 1 reaction/agility feat that surpasses anything dd has (dodging machine gun fire at close range and for a prolonged length of time--in his respect thread somewhere). elektra being superior to matt is also a bit misleading. at times it has gone that way, but other times matt has been clearly superior. his emotions often get in the way with her. she could barely match bullseye while matt has literally schooled him.

anyway, you're right in regards to relative skill though regarding danny and matt--i've always said they are near equals. danny does have a clear power edge though and he should beat dd for a solid majority based on that alone, though no fight would be easy imo.

cage WOULD be a problem for either dd or elektra though. could they take him? sure, not impossible, but not for a majority imo, at least not without some tp help from elektra. i'd say they could take 2, maybe 3/10, here, but i wouldn't give more than that.

edit.

Originally posted by leonidas
matt has some GREAT feats, but any character can say the same and some of what you mentioned weren't really that great. he danced around namor for a while and frustrated him, he jumped around the avengers who never attacked him. he's done well agaisnt cap and spidey often enough though among many others. danny has his share of uber feats too though, and danny has at least 1 reaction/agility feat that surpasses anything dd has (dodging machine gun fire at close range and for a prolonged length of time--in his respect thread somewhere). elektra being superior to matt is also a bit misleading. at times it has gone that way, but other times matt has been clearly superior. his emotions often get in the way with her. she could barely match bullseye while matt has literally schooled him.

anyway, you're right in regards to relative skill though regarding danny and matt--i've always said they are near equals. danny does have a clear power edge though and he should beat dd for a solid majority based on that alone, though no fight would be easy imo.

cage WOULD be a problem for either dd or elektra though. could they take him? sure, not impossible, but not for a majority imo, at least not without some tp help from elektra. i'd say they could take 2, maybe 3/10, here, but i wouldn't give more than that.

Originally posted by leonidas
matt has some GREAT feats, but any character can say the same and some of what you mentioned weren't really that great. he danced around namor for a while and frustrated him, he jumped around the avengers who never attacked him. he's done well agaisnt cap and spidey often enough though among many others. danny has his share of uber feats too though, and danny has at least 1 reaction/agility feat that surpasses anything dd has (dodging machine gun fire at close range and for a prolonged length of time--in his respect thread somewhere). elektra being superior to matt is also a bit misleading. at times it has gone that way, but other times matt has been clearly superior. his emotions often get in the way with her. she could barely match bullseye while matt has literally schooled him.

anyway, you're right in regards to relative skill though regarding danny and matt--i've always said they are near equals. danny does have a clear power edge though and he should beat dd for a solid majority based on that alone, though no fight would be easy imo.

cage WOULD be a problem for either dd or elektra though. could they take him? sure, not impossible, but not for a majority imo, at least not without some tp help from elektra. i'd say they could take 2, maybe 3/10, here, but i wouldn't give more than that.

I'd say more like 3 or 4. Where Namor is concerned he's faced him 4 or 5 times one ( in a harbor) was as you say dancing around him. Another he swung at Namor and took him Down briefly with pressure points. The Avengers thing he actually took down three of them ( granted solely with plot) IIRC a well placed baton throw deflected caps shield st it struck IM's boot rocket sending him into a spin and knocking Giantman into Herc. Matt was however only capable of the because I his senses. Danny has dodged machine gun fire for four panels ( by here gunmen- I'm one of the guys who uses that scan a lot) I have DD issues where he has dodged a room full of gunman for three pages. The two feats IMO just don't compare as well as you believe. As to comparing Electra vs Bullseye to Matt vs him Matt does well against bullseye because of his power not just his skill. His radar and other senses means his depth perception is far far greater. He can track the trajectory of bullseye's projectiles better than anyone else in marvel. Matt is his perfect opponent

Luke stomps Electra via Boxkicking. Did I mean to say Kickboxing?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/98988/3452366-b13f9_orig-luke_cage_vs_elektra.jpg

No.

Tha hell was that?

Are her Sai's adamantium. If so she could just throw one through Lukes throat r real quick

Typical comic written by Bendis, there must be at least one WTF moment. That was a Skrull, btw (but Luke had no idea about it).

Elektra's regular sais pierced She-Rulk and blocked Class 10 strikes from SS (who might --- might --- have been using the indestructible Black Blade).

Spite

Rand wins

Originally posted by leonidas
matt has some GREAT feats, but any character can say the same and some of what you mentioned weren't really that great. he danced around namor for a while and frustrated him, he jumped around the avengers who never attacked him. he's done well agaisnt cap and spidey often enough though among many others. danny has his share of uber feats too though, and danny has at least 1 reaction/agility feat that surpasses anything dd has (dodging machine gun fire at close range and for a prolonged length of time--in his respect thread somewhere). elektra being superior to matt is also a bit misleading. at times it has gone that way, but other times matt has been clearly superior. his emotions often get in the way with her. she could barely match bullseye while matt has literally schooled him.

anyway, you're right in regards to relative skill though regarding danny and matt--i've always said they are near equals. danny does have a clear power edge though and he should beat dd for a solid majority based on that alone, though no fight would be easy imo.

cage WOULD be a problem for either dd or elektra though. could they take him? sure, not impossible, but not for a majority imo, at least not without some tp help from elektra. i'd say they could take 2, maybe 3/10, here, but i wouldn't give more than that.

Good post.

Matt is near the top of the martial arts food chain, and has the feats to prove it, so I'm comfortable with him and Danny being near equals in a pure skill sense.. Considering Matt called Danny as good a fighter as he's ever seen when he was impersonating him and copying his style, he'd have to be at LEAST Matt's equal.

His chi amped stats (With or without his Iron Fist, as he can use his internal chi) and Iron Fist tricks edge Danny out over him.

Originally posted by tkitna
Spite

Rand wins

Rand ftw