Beta Ray Bill vs. Immortal Hercules

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



byrdgang21
1. H2H only
2. Bill gets his hammer & Herc gets his mace



Who wins?

janus77
Herc.

Supra
Herc

zopzop
1) Herc in a close fight.
2) BRB ragestomps.

Supra
Originally posted by zopzop
1) Herc in a close fight.
2) BRB ragestomps.

Yes I agree with stombreaker he stomps

JakeTheBank
1.) Hercules.
2.) Bill. It's no rage stomp.

Bouboumaster
1- Hercules
2- Delta Ray Dave

Supra
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
1.) Hercules.
2.) Bill. It's no rage stomp.

I fail to see how its not a stomp...Beta wrecks him cmon man

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Supra
I fail to see how its not a stomp...Beta wrecks him cmon man

Hercules' feats don't matter?

Supra
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Hercules' feats don't matter?

Sure they do, getting slapped around with stormbreaker feats dont matter?

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Supra
Sure they do, getting slapped around with stormbreaker feats dont matter?

Bill has great feats, sure, which is why he'd likely win with Stormbreaker.

Hercules, however, has some good feats of his own, enough of which to justify that he wouldn't be stomped by Bill (barring him doing some OOC forum mode stuff). It also doesn't hurt that Thor with Mjolnir hasn't stomped Hercules, either.

Supra
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Bill has great feats, sure, which is why he'd likely win with Stormbreaker.

Hercules, however, has some good feats of his own, enough of which to justify that he wouldn't be stomped by Bill (barring him doing some OOC forum mode stuff). It also doesn't hurt that Thor with Mjolnir hasn't stomped Hercules, either.

I defer to your deeper understanding then.

abhilegend
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Bill has great feats, sure, which is why he'd likely win with Stormbreaker.

Hercules, however, has some good feats of his own, enough of which to justify that he wouldn't be stomped by Bill (barring him doing some OOC forum mode stuff). It also doesn't hurt that Thor with Mjolnir hasn't stomped Hercules, either.
He stomped Herc in his best showing against Thor by a few bolts of lightning. Thor almost never fights Herc with mjolnir.

leonidas
herc rarely uses his mace against thor either, so there is that. herc would win h2h for a good majority imo. hammer>mace so bill would take a solid majority in the second.

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
herc rarely uses his mace against thor either, so there is that. herc would win h2h for a good majority imo. hammer>mace so bill would take a solid majority in the second.
His mace isn't that useful to begin with and Herc has admitted it. Stormbreaker enhances striking power greatly though.

leonidas
the mace definitely increases the striking power. more importantly it's a good tool for blocking the hammer, and has done so many times in the past. it's at least as important for defense as offense if it's just a slugfest which in most cases is what this would be--with or without weapons.

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
the mace definitely increases the striking power. more importantly it's a good tool for blocking the hammer, and has done so many times in the past. it's at least as important for defense as offense if it's just a slugfest which in most cases is what this would be--with or without weapons.
Herc admitted that mjolnir strikes harder than his mace though.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by leonidas
herc would win h2h for a good majority imo.

Seriously?

Guys, Hercules got the brief edge on Thor in ONE fight. One, out of like 15 different encounters. And it was their second fight in canon, meaning they have had plenty of other stalemates since then.

The first fight is more or less a stalemate. Maybe an edge to Hercules if I had to choose.

Bill wins the second.

Supra
Originally posted by abhilegend
Herc admitted that mjolnir strikes harder than his mace though.

Tanks!

Warlord
Originally posted by zopzop
1) Herc in a close fight.
2) BRB ragestomps.

dial J for Josh
Originally posted by zopzop
1) Herc in a close fight.
2) BRB ragestomps.

thumb up

leonidas
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Seriously?

Guys, Hercules got the brief edge on Thor in ONE fight. One, out of like 15 different encounters. And it was their second fight in canon, meaning they have had plenty of other stalemates since then.

The first fight is more or less a stalemate. Maybe an edge to Hercules if I had to choose.

Bill wins the second.

thor and herc are identical equals imo, but i'd give herc a slight h2h edge, as was born out. thor>bill in h2h imo, as odin sort of set thor up for that loss. had thor been going for the kill in that fight, i'd say he'd win it. that said, each fight would obviously be very close, but i'd give herc a good 7/10 vs bill in straight h2h, but i'd give him 6/10 vs thor.

leonidas
Originally posted by abhilegend
Herc admitted that mjolnir strikes harder than his mace though.

i'd never argue that, only that the mace does increase the striking power and like i said, it prevents a lot of hammer blows, perhaps more importantly. regardless, bill wins if its weapons but anyone who thinks any of these fights would be a stomp doesn't know the characters involved very well.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by leonidas
thor and herc are identical equals imo, but i'd give herc a slight h2h edge, as was born out. thor>bill in h2h imo, as odin sort of set thor up for that loss. had thor been going for the kill in that fight, i'd say he'd win it. that said, each fight would obviously be very close, but i'd give herc a good 7/10 vs bill in straight h2h, but i'd give him 6/10 vs thor.

Why are Hercules and Thor identical physical equals iyo? Because of many past stalemates? What about some moments where Thor physically outperforms Hercules? Do you consider them outliers and not really worthy of consideration? If so, then why would Hercules have a slight edge in hand to hand because of one fight (Which was canonically their second)?

Maybe, but if Thor is greater then Bill, it's because of a raw stat edge when push comes to shove, not some greater skill edge. Bill was the greatest warrior of his people and was intended to be Thor's equal in every aspect, even skill.

If Thor was going for the kill? Then the same could be said about Hercules as well, that's not really something to be held against Bill.

I think Thor and Hercules and Bill are about as equal as you can get, both in terms of stats and whatever perceived skill they decide to use.

Hercules got the edge over Thor for a reason no less contrived then Bill's win over Thor.

JakeTheBank
I really don't see why people think Bill rage stomps Hercules. erm

I mean, yeah, all powers coming into play, Bill should win. But it's not like he effortlessly crushes Hercules.

leonidas
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why are Hercules and Thor identical physical equals iyo? Because of many past stalemates? What about some moments where Thor physically outperforms Hercules? Do you consider them outliers and not really worthy of consideration? If so, then why would Hercules have a slight edge in hand to hand because of one fight (Which was canonically their second)?

Maybe, but if Thor is greater then Bill, it's because of a raw stat edge when push comes to shove, not some greater skill edge. Bill was the greatest warrior of his people and was intended to be Thor's equal in every aspect, even skill.

If Thor was going for the kill? Then the same could be said about Hercules as well, that's not really something to be held against Bill.

I think Thor and Hercules and Bill are about as equal as you can get, both in terms of stats and whatever perceived skill they decide to use.

Hercules got the edge over Thor for a reason no less contrived then Bill's win over Thor.

thor very rarely physically outperforms herc physically--ie--it;s extremely rare thor can perform a feat herc couldn't duplicate or perform. i can only think of one instance, and that was a lonnnngggg time ago. regardless, it's impossible to ignore the feat differences, but it's likewise impossible to ignore the simple appearance numbers and more importantly highlighted/solo appearances. their fights would indicate they are equal, their arm wrestle would indicate the same. in straight h2h though, i'd say herc has a slight skill edge, hence the 6/10 to herc imo.

you said bill was intended to be thor's equal, but he really wasn't intended to be a thor equal, it just sort of happened that he was. bill himself stated odin placed them in an environment that benefited bill. it seems odin WANTED bill to win that fight, and that's good enough for me. not sure how that is analogous to the herc/thor fight at all, tbh. what do you mean contrived?

i agree they are all relatively equal though, physically, but there is more, obviously, than just pure strength involved here.

zopzop
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I really don't see why people think Bill rage stomps Hercules. erm
Because with Stormbreaker he would?


Herc only wins H2H because he's had centuries of combat experience not because he dominates Bill strength wise.

All powers come into play and Hercules dies so many different ways it's not even funny.

leonidas
like how? what exactly would bill do to him?

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by zopzop

Because with Stormbreaker he would?


Herc only wins H2H because he's had centuries of combat experience not because he dominates Bill strength wise.

All powers come into play and Hercules dies so many different ways it's not even funny.

Just like Thor's dominated Hercules easily so many times?

Hercules would win H2H because he's more skilled and more experienced, yeah.

Bill wouldn't and couldn't kill Hercules in a multitude of ways. Beat him, sure. But give Hercules some credit here.

zopzop
Originally posted by leonidas
like how? what exactly would bill do to him?
Hurricane force winds, pounding rain and sleet, then a surprise SB strike to the back of the head...........FIN.

Or Hurricane force winds/pounding rain and sleet, then a God Blast to the face (he can God Blast, it was proven on panel).

He can get more creative but I'm just going for basic stuff.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Bill wouldn't and couldn't kill Hercules in a multitude of ways.
LOL. Thor/BRB would destroy Herc if Thor really wanted to end him.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by zopzop
LOL. Thor/BRB would destroy Herc if Thor really wanted to end him.

If Hercules wasn't as equally motivated to survive - or willing to kill either of them - and/or just stood there and let them, sure. no expression

It's obvious that both Thor and Bill can operate on a level higher than Hercules can, but it's also obvious that Hercules wouldn't be easily dispatched by either of them barring some wild or circumstantial tactics. I've read plenty of Thor comics to know that.

leonidas
Originally posted by zopzop
Hurricane force winds, pounding rain and sleet, then a surprise SB strike to the back of the head...........FIN.

Or Hurricane force winds/pounding rain and sleet, then a God Blast to the face (he can God Blast, it was proven on panel).

He can get more creative but I'm just going for basic stuff.

LOL. Thor/BRB would destroy Herc if Thor really wanted to end him.

wind and rain? no expression not in this lifetime.... lightning might do it, depends if his mace would let him block it or not. godblast? ooc much....? bill WOULD fight him in a slugfest style, 9/10 fights. energy blasts could be blocked, storms aren't winning anything for him. best bet is lightning, but i'd wonder how many controlled lightning strikes bill has used. gb? never happen in this type of fight, c'mon.....

eaebiakuya
Idk, if I put Hercules in Stardust place I cant se him doing much. Being unable to fly is a big problem.

JakeTheBank
Obviously Hercules' lack of mobility and versatility are disadvantages against some of the foes Bill and Thor have faced (and Bill and Thor as well), but his track record and feats in general are too good to justify him being easily dispatched by either of them.

zopzop
Originally posted by leonidas
wind and rain? no expression not in this lifetime.... lightning might do it,
Mjolnir summoned storms washed Savage Hulk away. If they did that to Hulk, Herc ain't resisting it.

The storms are just a distraction for the epic beatdown Thor/BRB would unleash upon that turd.

The point is, BRB or Thor CAN unleash that type of punishment on Herc ANY time they want to.

Colossus-Big C
http://i49.tinypic.com/2q0ps2a.jpg

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by leonidas
thor very rarely physically outperforms herc physically--ie--it;s extremely rare thor can perform a feat herc couldn't duplicate or perform. i can only think of one instance, and that was a lonnnngggg time ago. regardless, it's impossible to ignore the feat differences, but it's likewise impossible to ignore the simple appearance numbers and more importantly highlighted/solo appearances. their fights would indicate they are equal, their arm wrestle would indicate the same. in straight h2h though, i'd say herc has a slight skill edge, hence the 6/10 to herc imo.

I can think of like two different instances where Thor has come out looking more impressive then Hercules in a physical encounter. Three if you count their battle with the First Man but I give Hercules some slack there because he wasn't at 100% due to moving Manhattan the day before but the sheer difference in performance was as if Thor was twice as strong. That's not counting the times Thor's gone above and beyond his limitations and showed strength greater then what Hercules could seemingly accomplish. Anyways, my point is that as rare as the case may be, it's happened and yet here you are arguing that Hercules would beat Thor/Bill because he once got the edge once in a fight.

Originally posted by leonidas
you said bill was intended to be thor's equal, but he really wasn't intended to be a thor equal, it just sort of happened that he was. bill himself stated odin placed them in an environment that benefited bill. it seems odin WANTED bill to win that fight, and that's good enough for me. not sure how that is analogous to the herc/thor fight at all, tbh. what do you mean contrived?

He was in every way, in both courage and power. He was also the greatest warrior of his people before the augmentations. Yes, the environment was necessary so that Bill could WIN.

I mean contrived in that Hercules got the edge for absolutely no reason other then the writer believing he should (Because Thor had so many other powers) despite all history and canon saying otherwise.

You know what the irony is? In their past fights, THOR has actually used skillful maneuvers more often then Hercules has. It being their second meeting also doesn't make any sense as Hercules has never showed any edge again. I guess Thor must have done some training or something.

Originally posted by leonidas
i agree they are all relatively equal though, physically, but there is more, obviously, than just pure strength involved here.

I think Bill and Hercules would be a stalemate in hand to hand. Anything else is about as likely as Thor overpowering Hercules in a hand to hand fight.

dial J for Josh
Originally posted by leonidas
like how? what exactly would bill do to him?

He's Beta Ray Bill. He hits him with hammers.

carver9
I love Thor but Herc strength fts piss on his fts and it is one of the best. Held Earth on his shoulders...pulled an entire state, held the universe up with nothing but brute strength. Don't see what the problem is...Herc is physically a high Herald.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by leonidas
wind and rain? no expression not in this lifetime.... lightning might do it, depends if his mace would let him block it or not. godblast? ooc much....? bill WOULD fight him in a slugfest style, 9/10 fights. energy blasts could be blocked, storms aren't winning anything for him. best bet is lightning, but i'd wonder how many controlled lightning strikes bill has used. gb? never happen in this type of fight, c'mon.....

Why is that surprising? Either Bill or Thor can win by summoning a powerful enough storm alone. His weather powers have proved effective even against Silver Age Mangog....

Sad as it is, Thor's rain is more powerful then Hercules. Lightning would do it. Even in that Blood Oath fight you're using as your main basis, lightning pretty much ended it.

When has Hercules' mace ever shown the ability to block the kind of energy onslaught that Bill can unleash? As a matter of fact, I'm trying to think of a time when it's been used to block any notable energy period.

If Bill uses a tactic as simple as this, Hercules is pretty much f*cked:
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/galanphotos/th_brb_fenris1.jpg http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/galanphotos/th_brb_fenris2.jpg http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/galanphotos/th_brb_fenris3.jpg http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/galanphotos/th_brb_fenris4.jpg

Best case scenario, this goes about as well as Bill's fight with Tanaraq amped Sasquatch:
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/galanphotos/th_brb_sasquatch1.jpg http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/galanphotos/th_brb_sasquatch2.jpg http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/galanphotos/th_brb_sasquatch3.jpg http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/galanphotos/th_brb_sasquatch4.jpg

The maneuverability and the sheer raw striking power wins it for Bill. The fight gets more and more lopsided the more capabilities you add such as lightning etc. Thor is content to simply swing his hammer the entire time out of honor, he doesn't even use flight, but Bill is not the same.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/galanphotos/th_brb_strike4.jpg

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by carver9
I love Thor but Herc strength fts piss on his fts

Lol. Not sure if serious.

carver9
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol. Not sure if serious.

Can't think of a Herald that has his fts.

Colossus-Big C
hercules did beat the shit out of sentry

zopzop
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
hercules did beat the shit out of sentry
P.lot
I.nduced
S.tupidity

carver9
Originally posted by zopzop
P.lot
I.nduced
S.tupidity

So the Namor and Thing fight wasn't PIS? Stop picking and choosing Zop.

zopzop
Originally posted by carver9
So the Namor and Thing fight wasn't PIS? Stop picking and choosing Zop.
No because Namor and Thing have a history of going at it and they are mostly draws. This time Thing won. Namor and Thing are in the same Tier power wise.

Sentry > Hercules, period.

carver9
Originally posted by zopzop
No because Namor and Thing have a history of going at it and they are mostly draws. This time Thing won. Namor and Thing are in the same Tier power wise.

Sentry > Hercules, period.

When has Thing and Namor been even?

leonidas
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I can think of like two different instances where Thor has come out looking more impressive then Hercules in a physical encounter. Three if you count their battle with the First Man but I give Hercules some slack there because he wasn't at 100% due to moving Manhattan the day before but the sheer difference in performance was as if Thor was twice as strong. That's not counting the times Thor's gone above and beyond his limitations and showed strength greater then what Hercules could seemingly accomplish. Anyways, my point is that as rare as the case may be, it's happened and yet here you are arguing that Hercules would beat Thor/Bill because he once got the edge once in a fight.



He was in every way, in both courage and power. He was also the greatest warrior of his people before the augmentations. Yes, the environment was necessary so that Bill could WIN.

I mean contrived in that Hercules got the edge for absolutely no reason other then the writer believing he should (Because Thor had so many other powers) despite all history and canon saying otherwise.

You know what the irony is? In their past fights, THOR has actually used skillful maneuvers more often then Hercules has. It being their second meeting also doesn't make any sense as Hercules has never showed any edge again. I guess Thor must have done some training or something.



I think Bill and Hercules would be a stalemate in hand to hand. Anything else is about as likely as Thor overpowering Hercules in a hand to hand fight.

how many times have they fought purely h2h, no weapons. i base things in THAT fight, because THAT is the type of fight this would be...hence, it's the most appropriate.

not sure what you're getting at with the contrived portion of your argument. they're not the same, at all. the writer wrote herc as the winner? and that's contrived? when they've stalemated many times over in the past, and they are fighting purely h2h? my as well say spidey beating ock is contrived, batman beating joker, ad infinitum. ODIN contrived thor's loss to bill. the 2 things aren't anything at all alike.

anyway, herc has plenty of feats to suggest he is at least as strong thor, (for example, in none of their matches did classic hulk ever beat herc down the way he beat thor down--never even came close) and we have seen he is at least as skilled, and by one writer's estimate, more skilled. hence, again, i give herc a slight edge. since it took plot help for bill to beat thor, i say thor beats bill for a slight majority, so following that imo bill<thor, i give herc another win over bill.

as for your other post--there are definitely instances of the mace blocking energy, but i'd need to dig them up. the mace doesn't have all that many appearances though. i absolutely do NOT see rain taking herc out. ever. blinding him? sure. his best bet is still lightning though unless it can be blocked, which is probably doubtful. he could use wind to left herc i guess and attack from the air. one of the drawbacks to being one-dimensional. the fights would go almost exactly as thor's fights with hulk would go though. staying in character, this would be a weapon slugfest, and it wouldn't be easy though obviously bill and thor have a versatility edge over herc and have many more ways to take him out. remove weapons to even it up and the pendulum shifts slightly imo. that's about the best we'll agree on so i'll just say merry christmas and be on my way.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.