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One thing that I have noticed in my years at KMC is that whenever HP Doomsday is involved in a thread, someone throws around the words "writers intent" in an effort to make Doomsday nigh unbeatable. So, I plan to test that theory by posing the following question. In a match-up between Doomsday and the Hulk who would win based solely on writers intent and feats?

Writers Intent "Doomsday can evolve to beat any opponent".

Evidence: Doomsday has tanked the OE and the Guardian blast. He has faught and beaten some of DC's most powerful heroes, including but not limited to Superman, Wonder Woman, Orion. Doomsday is the only being to physically beat Superman to death. Doomsday has adapted to attacks from powerful beings such as Radiant, Waverider, and Superman+Motherbox. Doomsday has been stated by the writer in more than one issue to be able to adapt to any opponent.

Writers Intent "Hulk is the strongest there is".

Evidence: Hulk has survived damage that would kill most other heroes or villains. Throughout his nearly 50 year history this claim has been made by multiple writers in a small libraries worth of issues. Hulk has torn through "indestructible" objects as if they were moist tissue paper. When encounter a physically equal or superior opponent he has consistently been able to power up an beat those opponents, unless there is a plot device involved. Hulis battles have resulted in the shattering of reality and the breaking of worlds. Hulk has been shown to be powerful enough to punch through time.

Let the debate begin.

Ultimately, Hulk.

Hulk getting strong enough to beat Hunter Prey Doomsday is unlikely in the average portrayal but not impossible possible. After all, even non-Green Scar Hulk's have reached levels of strength I'd consider on par or above Hunter Prey's. The problem with these "writer intent" discussions is that they lead to no limit fallacies often and are very subjective. Even more so then usual comic book debates.

Anyways, if these two were to crossover, it'd probably go like the original Abomination fight. Hulk gets beat to death or something, Doomsday threatens Betty or pushes Banner, and Hulk gives him a rectal exam with his foot.

I guess, when it comes down to it, Hulk being the strongest one there is more true then Doomsday being unbeatable through evolution. To me anyways.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hulk getting strong enough to beat Hunter Prey Doomsday is unlikely in the average portrayal but not impossible possible. After all, even non-Green Scar Hulk's have reached levels of strength I'd consider on par or above Hunter Prey's. The problem with these "writer intent" discussions is that they lead to no limit fallacies often and are very subjective. Even more so then usual comic book debates.

Anyways, if these two were to crossover, it'd probably go like the original Abomination fight. Hulk gets beat to death or something, Doomsday threatens Betty or pushes Banner, and Hulk gives him a rectal exam with his foot.

I guess, when it comes down to it, Hulk being the strongest one there is more true then Doomsday being unbeatable through evolution. To me anyways.

Writer intent. Jurgens, the creator of Doomsday said Superman would beat Hulk in a few heartbeats. The greatest hulk writer ever PAD said that superman would beat Hulk too.


http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/VS%20HULK/supesvshulk40me.jpg

For all "Hulk is the strongest one there is" shit, if there is another crossover between superman and hulk and there must be a winner, you can bet its going to be superman. Can hulk grow strong enough to beat doomsday? Yes. He wouldn't get the chance before doomsday beats the shit out of him though.

^ how did you just happen to have that at the ready? it's a specific piece of information that would otherwise be completely useless, even against the rules but you still have it..... how many gigs of comic stuff do you possess?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
^ how did you just happen to have that at the ready? it's a specific piece of information that would otherwise be completely useless, even against the rules but you still have it..... how many gigs of comic stuff do you possess?
Its a thread talking about writer intent. I gave the intent of two of the most prominent writers on either hulk or superman. As for how I got that, blame salsa.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=371890&pagenumber=117#post14573041

But yeah, Hulk is no match for superman in a fight. Even PAD agrees to that. In a superman comic? "A few heartbeats" "no contest." Take that you puny small god.

All pieces if knowledge are trivial until they are used and Abhi is quiet comically obsessed. I like to think he makes up for all the marvel bias on kmc.

Originally posted by Decimus
All pieces if knowledge are trivial until they are used and Abhi is quiet comically obsessed. I like to think he makes up for all the marvel bias on kmc.
Obsessed? Nah. I'm just good at gathering information.

I will take the knowledge and the opinion of Peter David over most people when it comes to the Hulk

So the poll will come down to be a popularity contest but for someone like David to give the win to a Pre Dos Superman speaks volumes.

Also Greg Pak believes Darkseid can bust a planet while Hulk needs to reach WB mode to do this, funny thing is that by Pak's own writing in a comic Superman has the physical strength to challenge a world breaker like Darkseid.

And this is based on HIS own depiction of power levels.

DD will win not only because of adaptability, but because he is tougherand has dynamic strength as well. IMO

B-but carver knows more about hulk than PAD!!! Haven't you seen his last 40000 posts on KMC brimming with hulk knowledge?

Doomsday would **** hulk up.

Doomsday on average.

Trying to impose Superman's number one hero factor on Doomsday is illogical. A writer given Superman the win by the virtue of being Superman should not apply to Doomsday.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I will take the knowledge and the opinion of Peter David over most people when it comes to the Hulk

So the poll will come down to be a popularity contest but for someone like David to give the win to a Pre Dos Superman speaks volumes.

Tbf, Peter David's reasoning seemed to revolved around Superman's versatility. Doomsday trying to out-brawl the Hulk is an entirely different situation as plays directly to his strength. And Jurgens/David (I think it was them) had an all out (Post-Dos Superman mind you) just barely beat Professor Hulk. So you know, that's probably a more relevant basis for your reasoning.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Also Greg Pak believes Darkseid can bust a planet while Hulk needs to reach WB mode to do this, funny thing is that by Pak's own writing in a comic Superman has the physical strength to challenge a world breaker like Darkseid.



What? Where did Pak say that Hulk needed to reach World Breaker levels to bust planets? Even at the EARLY stages of World Breaker, Hulk was a danger to the planet with his mere footsteps.

It's one thing to assume Hunter Prey Doomsday would win (On average anyways) but these leaps in logic just undermine your entire argument. Hulk was said to be a planetary threat on his WAY to Planet Hulk fyi.

And for what it's worth, I remember Greg Pak making it clear Hulk would beat Superman during World War Hulk.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Writer intent. Jurgens, the creator of Doomsday said Superman would beat Hulk in a few heartbeats. The greatest hulk writer ever PAD said that superman would beat Hulk too.


http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/VS%20HULK/supesvshulk40me.jpg

For all "Hulk is the strongest one there is" shit, if there is another crossover between superman and hulk and there must be a winner, you can bet its going to be superman. Can hulk grow strong enough to beat doomsday? Yes. He wouldn't get the chance before doomsday beats the shit out of him though. That would be relevant if this was a Hulk vs Superman thread, but it isn't. Doomsday lacks the heat vision and maneuverability that both writers stated Superman would need to win. I have yet to see anything that would indicate that Hulk is significantly slower than Doomsday. Try showing a scan of Doomsday "making people look like statues" the way Superman has. You can because it doesn't exist. Someone simply saying that Doomsday is as fast as Flash isn't good enough. There needs to be actual on panel proof of him moving that fast, like covering hundreds of miles in the blink of an eye. Doomsday Wars isn't good enough. That version had Brainiacs mind, there is no way to prove that he was able to take out Flash with speed, rather than simply using intelligence to predict where Flash would be, just like when Deadshot stabbed the Flash. Hulk was smashing the indestructible decades before Doomsday was even conceptualized.

Originally posted by abhilegend
B-but carver knows more about hulk than PAD!!! Haven't you seen his last 40000 posts on KMC brimming with hulk knowledge?

All pray to the gamma prophet pray

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Trying to impose Superman's number one hero factor on Doomsday is illogical. A writer given Superman the win by the virtue of being Superman should not apply to Doomsday.



Tbf, Peter David's reasoning seemed to revolved around Superman's versatility. Doomsday trying to out-brawl the Hulk is an entirely different situation as plays directly to his strength. And Jurgens/David (I think it was them) had an all out (Post-Dos Superman mind you) just barely beat Professor Hulk. So you know, that's probably a more relevant basis for your reasoning.

What ever advantage of versatility Superman or the JLA had over Doomsday was useless, meaning that versatility advantage vs Doomsday will not play a role as big as it will play with Hulk.
The VS battle on the printed book has to be approved by both companies. The interview answer does not has to be approved by the company, is an opinion shared by the writer. So I rather go with their honest opinion than with a battle portrayed to appease fans and company suits. But to be fair, I could see it as a possible outcome of the fight as Superman basically out-brawl the Hulk.





Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What? Where did Pak say that Hulk needed to reach World Breaker levels to bust planets? Even at the EARLY stages of World Breaker, Hulk was a danger to the planet with his mere footsteps.

Thus I refer to it as WB mode and he did not say it specifically, he showed it, by portraying the Hulk irradiating green energy (WB mode)

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It's one thing to assume Hunter Prey Doomsday would win (On average anyways) but these leaps in logic just undermine your entire argument. Hulk was said to be a planetary threat on his WAY to Planet Hulk fyi.

Ummmm.... yes I know I have said this forever, that hulk fanboys are wanking over a feat that has been achievable since the 70's

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And for what it's worth, I remember Greg Pak making it clear Hulk would beat Superman during World War Hulk.

Yet his portrayal of planet busters says other wise, you have a problem with that? get it to him, I am just showing what he portrays on HIS comics

Originally posted by Brockalizer
That would be relevant if this was a Hulk vs Superman thread, but it isn't. Doomsday lacks the heat vision and maneuverability that both writers stated Superman would need to win. I have yet to see anything that would indicate that Hulk is significantly slower than Doomsday. Try showing a scan of Doomsday "making people look like statues" the way Superman has. You can because it doesn't exist. Someone simply saying that Doomsday is as fast as Flash isn't good enough. There needs to be actual on panel proof of him moving that fast, like covering hundreds of miles in the blink of an eye. Doomsday Wars isn't good enough. That version had Brainiacs mind, there is no way to prove that he was able to take out Flash with speed, rather than simply using intelligence to predict where Flash would be, just like when Deadshot stabbed the Flash. Hulk was smashing the indestructible decades before Doomsday was even conceptualized.

Well this will be really simple, If hulk has a feat where he basically defeats an equivalent team with one hand tied behind his back or something equivalent to that.

Hulk has tons of feats over the many years he has, so it should be easier for him to have a similar feat

Doomsday does not has the feats to compete vs Hulk or Superman, but under his original writer he was portrayed as very powerful.

Superman using his versatility edge over Hulk to beat him =/= Doomsday beating Hulk through brawling and adaptability. Writer intent for Hulk has also changed quite dramatically since then.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Superman using his versatility edge over Hulk to beat him =/= Doomsday beating Hulk through brawling and adaptability. Writer intent for Hulk has also changed quite dramatically since then. Shut up you Superman fanboy.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Trying to impose Superman's number one hero factor on Doomsday is illogical. A writer given Superman the win by the virtue of being Superman should not apply to Doomsday.



Tbf, Peter David's reasoning seemed to revolved around Superman's versatility. Doomsday trying to out-brawl the Hulk is an entirely different situation as plays directly to his strength. And Jurgens/David (I think it was them) had an all out (Post-Dos Superman mind you) just barely beat Professor Hulk. So you know, that's probably a more relevant basis for your reasoning.





What? Where did Pak say that Hulk needed to reach World Breaker levels to bust planets? Even at the EARLY stages of World Breaker, Hulk was a danger to the planet with his mere footsteps.

It's one thing to assume Hunter Prey Doomsday would win (On average anyways) but these leaps in logic just undermine your entire argument. Hulk was said to be a planetary threat on his WAY to Planet Hulk fyi.

And for what it's worth, I remember Greg Pak making it clear Hulk would beat Superman during World War Hulk. ditto.

this turning into a superman argument is one of the main issues of kmc. it doesn't have to be this way every single time

Originally posted by Brockalizer
That would be relevant if this was a Hulk vs Superman thread, but it isn't. Doomsday lacks the heat vision and maneuverability that both writers stated Superman would need to win. I have yet to see anything that would indicate that Hulk is significantly slower than Doomsday. Try showing a scan of Doomsday "making people look like statues" the way Superman has. You can because it doesn't exist. Someone simply saying that Doomsday is as fast as Flash isn't good enough. There needs to be actual on panel proof of him moving that fast, like covering hundreds of miles in the blink of an eye. Doomsday Wars isn't good enough. That version had Brainiacs mind, there is no way to prove that he was able to take out Flash with speed, rather than simply using intelligence to predict where Flash would be, just like when Deadshot stabbed the Flash. Hulk was smashing the indestructible decades before Doomsday was even conceptualized.
Jurgens' superman was less than a nuisance to Jurgens' doomsday. So was Superman. This is the same Jurgens who had superman no sell adamantium cutting lasers like nothing BTW.

http://i.imgur.com/a5hOGyM.jpg

You asked for writer intent and I provided two writers' intents. Sorry its not for your liking.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
ditto.

this turning into a superman argument is one of the main issues of kmc. it doesn't have to be this way every single time
Doomsday is only comparable to hulk via comparison with superman since he doesn't have any independent feats like Hulk does.

DD for average portrayals
Hulk at upper end (like world breaker mode)


But the only Hulk I see possibly beating DD is the one where he can and is willing to go world breaker instantly.

dd. i think the superman discussion is relevant only in the sense that we have a lot more info on hulk/superman than dd/hulk. hulk might be as strong, but he isn't beating a dd who is capable of adapting. not only will he continue to be as strong as hulk, but he'll continue to evolve ways to protect himself from damage while developing other abilities as the battle goes on. his speed alone would be a huge factor in this. hulk evolves healing and strength. dd evolves healing/strength+whatever else he needs. least imo.

Hulk. He's practically a cosmic-force now.

Going by "writer intent", I'd say Hulk is exactly as Marvel bills him, The Strongest One There Is. Period.

He'll make paste out of H/P DD.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I will take the knowledge and the opinion of Peter David over most people when it comes to the Hulk

So the poll will come down to be a popularity contest but for someone like David to give the win to a Pre Dos Superman speaks volumes.

Also Greg Pak believes Darkseid can bust a planet while Hulk needs to reach WB mode to do this, funny thing is that by Pak's own writing in a comic Superman has the physical strength to challenge a world breaker like Darkseid.

And this is based on HIS own depiction of power levels.

DD will win not only because of adaptability, but because he is tougherand has dynamic strength as well. IMO

Lol...Pak said Hulk st his weakest state can destroy a planet.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...Pak said Hulk st his weakest state can destroy a planet.

and he portrayed Darkseid casually destroying a planet

So what's your point "Peter David"?

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
and he portrayed Darkseid casually destroying a planet

So what's your point "Peter David"?

That you are basing your opinion off of old reviews. I know of 3 writers RECENTLY that said Hulk would kill Superman and one of the writers is doing Superman comics now. Hell, this same writer said nothing short of Galactus can beat WORLD WAR HULK (he didn't even bring up World Breaker). This same writer had Shield saying they never seen a power level like WWH (and remember who shield has in their files). This same writer had RED RICHARDS saying he had never seen a power level like Hulk. You honestly don't want to go with writers intent against the Hulk bro. Writers intent had Pak saying WBH could destroy a Galaxy with a punch. Writer intent stated that Hulk is stronger than the same Hyperion that held back two universes. Writers intent even during planet Hulk time had people and Hulk stating that he could annihilate a planet with ease.

By the way, Darkseid off panel (don't even know how he destroyed it) doesn't compare to WBH, not even close. Lets not go there though because Darkseid isnt in this thread. By the way, I'm not screaming at you.. capitalizing the most important parts.

Originally posted by carver9
That you are basing your opinion off of old reviews. I know of 3 writers RECENTLY that said Hulk would kill Superman and one of the writers is doing Superman comics now. Hell, this same writer said nothing short of Galactus can beat WORLD WAR HULK (he didn't even bring up World Breaker). This same writer had Shield saying they never seen a power level like WWH (and remember who shield has in their files). This same writer had RED RICHARDS saying he had never seen a power level like Hulk. You honestly don't want to go with writers intent against the Hulk bro. Writers intent had Pak saying WBH could destroy a Galaxy with a punch. Writer intent stated that Hulk is stronger than the same Hyperion that held back two universes. Writers intent even during planet Hulk time had people and Hulk stating that he could annihilate a planet with ease.

By the way, Darkseid off panel (don't even know how he destroyed it) doesn't compare to WBH, not even close. Lets not go there though because Darkseid isnt in this thread. By the way, I'm not screaming at you.. capitalizing the most important parts.

I am bringing Darkseid because We are talking about writers and the same writer who portrayed Hulk at his most powerful level is the same writer who has Darkseid CASUALLY destroying planets and saying that Superman is his physical equal, so If you have a beef with that, I will suggest to you to write to Greg Pak and complain with him, not with me.

As for "other writers" and "old reviews" believe me, I think the word of Peter David is better that the word of Scan Daddy. Other writers have stated and shown that Superman will destroy the Hulk, lets take Joe Casey for example, he had the Hulk getting choke by a giant snake, while he portrayed Superman with standing the pressure of the center of the earth and a star. and that is just one example.

Carver actually believes what he says, right?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Carver actually believes what he says, right?


He has to

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/image/Hulk_Catholic.jpg

Just want to throw out there that you are on ignore ABHI...per Pr request. I have a feeling you are replying to my comment. Let Rao handle this.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I am bringing Darkseid because We are talking about writers and the same writer who portrayed Hulk at his most powerful level is the same writer who has Darkseid CASUALLY destroying planets and saying that Superman is his physical equal, so If you have a beef with that, I will suggest to you to write to Greg Pak and complain with him, not with me.

As for "other writers" and "old reviews" believe me, I think the word of Peter David is better that the word of Scan Daddy. Other writers have stated and shown that Superman will destroy the Hulk, lets take Joe Casey for example, he had the Hulk getting choke by a giant snake, while he portrayed Superman with standing the pressure of the center of the earth and a star. and that is just one example.

Show me that scan of Darkseid destroying that planet physically. I will be waiting.

Also, you just dont get it. Every writer have different opinions on who would win between Hulk and Superman. It's just how it is. One thing I do know is, Pak said Hulk would destroy Superman. Pak said nothing short of Galactus can stop WWH. Pak wrote Hulk lungs withstanding a 100+ Hercs (and yes, one Herc has planetary fts..the guy held Earth on his shoulders...held up the universe). Pak is writing Superman but lets not forget, Pak said Hulk would DESTROY Superman.

Like I've stated before, you using old scans from a Wizard comic (the same source that told us Superman top speed is 2000 mps) has credibility here...yeah right.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its a thread talking about writer intent. I gave the intent of two of the most prominent writers on either hulk or superman. As for how I got that, blame salsa.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=371890&pagenumber=117#post14573041

But yeah, Hulk is no match for superman in a fight. Even PAD agrees to that. In a superman comic? "A few heartbeats" "no contest." Take that you puny small god.

You want to quote a writer so I will do the same.


RC: What do you think of the idea of Superman defeating Thor, which we recently saw in JLA/Avengers?


DAN JURGENS: No . . . not even possible. Even if you bring back Thor to his basic self, the Thor of issue one of my run, he would beat Superman.

Again, Pak disagrees as do other writers. All of these writers agree Hulk has Superman in strength so since you introduced this as your evidence I take it you share their opinions as well in this regard.

Ah yes, the same interview which says Superman is millions of times stronger than Thor. Take away a few millions and Doomsday still curbstomps Hulkie boy.



What to chose? Decisions, decisions!!!

Originally posted by carver9
Show me that scan of Darkseid destroying that planet physically. I will be waiting.

I don't know if you like to play dumb, but your game is quite tiresome at times

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/DCnU/DARKSEID/th_LastScan11_zps61d31c21.jpghttp://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/DCnU/DARKSEID/th_LastScan16_zps7d822685.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/DCnU/DARKSEID/th_LastScan17_zpseb49f3b6.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Also, you just dont get it. Every writer have different opinions on who would win between Hulk and Superman. It's just how it is. One thing I do know is, Pak said Hulk would destroy Superman. Pak said nothing short of Galactus can stop WWH. Pak wrote Hulk lungs withstanding a 100+ Hercs (and yes, one Herc has planetary fts..the guy held Earth on his shoulders...held up the universe). Pak is writing Superman but lets not forget, Pak said Hulk would DESTROY Superman.

LOL, I would like to see Pak making those same claims 1 or 2 years into Superman's books. Look at the scans posted and that is giving you a preview of what He has in mind for Superman. Also Joe Casey stated in an interview that nothing not even Galactus can defeat a no mental block Superman. Do I believe this is true and preach it like gospel? NO, I don't. Unlike you. So whats the point here?

Originally posted by carver9
Like I've stated before, you using old scans from a Wizard comic (the same source that told us Superman top speed is 2000 mps) has credibility here...yeah right.

Fail Carver, I do not care for what the Wizard magazine has to say about the matter, I care for what PETER DAVID has to say about it, and
Peter David's opinion>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yours. IMO

and lol at your silly attempt to discredit the Wizard Magazine while YOU have said before numerous times that Superman's top speed is 2000 mps. Like I said I don't care what the wizard magazine has to say about this matter, I care what PETER DAVID former writer of the Hulk for 12 years + 11 issues has to say about it. Peter David EXPLORED most hulk incarnations like NO OTHER writer.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ah yes, the same interview which says Superman is millions of times stronger than Thor. Take away a few millions and Doomsday still curbstomps Hulkie boy.



What to chose? Decisions, decisions!!! Thor still wins and he took back those comments. Thor wins according to Jurgens. Jurgens also says Superman is limited by his upbringing. He is no Orion or Thor. You pick and choose what comments to listen to which doesn't work.

Jurgens believes it isn't possible for Superman to ever beat Thor.


All your writers agree Hulk is stronger than Superman and Jurgens believes 95 percent power which is less than Hulk strength which is dynamic beats Doomsday in a knock down drag out battle. Hulk definitely wins here.

Regarding Darkseid's planet-busting feat: carver is correct.

While we know that Darkseid destroyed a planet, we do not know how he did so.
http://i.imgur.com/5QWiGxn.jpg

It could have been accomplished through physical means, or it could have been accomplished through energy-based means. We just don't know.

Yup, according to Casey nobody can stop not holding back Superman. Not even Galactus.



http://www.comicboards.com/joecasey-rc.php

Take that puny hulk.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I don't know if you like to play dumb, but your game is quite tiresome at times

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/DCnU/DARKSEID/th_LastScan11_zps61d31c21.jpghttp://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/DCnU/DARKSEID/th_LastScan16_zps7d822685.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/DCnU/DARKSEID/th_LastScan17_zpseb49f3b6.jpg



LOL, I would like to see Pak making those same claims 1 or 2 years into Superman's books. Look at the scans posted and that is giving you a preview of what He has in mind for Superman. Also Joe Casey stated in an interview that nothing not even Galactus can defeat a no mental block Superman. Do I believe this is true and preach it like gospel? NO, I don't. Unlike you. So whats the point here?



Fail Carver, I do not care for what the Wizard magazine has to say about the matter, I care for what PETER DAVID has to say about it, and
Peter David's opinion>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yours. IMO

and lol at your silly attempt to discredit the Wizard Magazine while YOU have said before numerous times that Superman's top speed is 2000 mps. Like I said I don't care what the wizard magazine has to say about this matter, I care what PETER DAVID former writer of the Hulk for 12 years + 11 issues has to say about it. Peter David EXPLORED most hulk incarnations like NO OTHER writer.

so Darkseid Omegas destroying a planet proves to us he is Hulks equal physically?.

Come on Rao. Like I've stated before, if you want to do match comparison, you would lose since Hulk lungs is more powerful than a guy that held a planet on his shoulders and held the universe with brute strength alone.

Lol...Pak wrote Hulk and is writing Superman and he pretty much said a holding back Hulk would kill (not beat, but kill) Superman. You showing me Darkseid taking out a planet with Omegas (lol) isn't helping your case. You showing me scans back in the 90s when Hulk power level has changed drastically doesn't help you either. I could make a claim that WWH lungs>>>Superman if I want since Herc fts of strength poops all over current Superman (that's IF I use your debating style, which I'm not).

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yup, according to Casey nobody can stop not holding back Superman. Not even Galactus.



http://www.comicboards.com/joecasey-rc.php

Take that puny hulk. That is his opinion but Superman did not do so. He was saved from Imperiex. The funny thing is this writer seems as cuckoo as they come. I can never take anything this guy says seriously.

Pak gave Hulk the feats which adds more weight than Casey's opinion.

Originally posted by Galan007
Regarding Darkseid's planet-busting feat: carver is correct.

While we know that Darkseid destroyed a planet, we do not know how he did so.
http://i.imgur.com/5QWiGxn.jpg

It could have been accomplished through physical means, or it could have been accomplished through energy-based means. We just don't know.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That is his opinion but Superman did not do so. He was saved from Imperiex. The funny thing is this writer seems as cuckoo as they come. I can never take anything this guy says seriously.

Pak gave Hulk the feats which adds more weight than Casey's opinion.

Also, for someone that can take out Imperiex, why did Superman almost die from one attack from Imperiex Prime? Darkseid had to save him.

Originally posted by Galan007
Regarding Darkseid's planet-busting feat: carver is correct.

While we know that Darkseid destroyed a planet, we do not know how he did so.
http://i.imgur.com/5QWiGxn.jpg

It could have been accomplished through physical means, or it could have been accomplished through energy-based means. We just don't know.

While that might be true, the depiction of the battle is that of a physical confrontation and Darkseid has his fist ready to punch Izaya in the previous panel of the planet busting.

But yeah I agree We are not 100% sure how this was accomplished, though by the depiction of the battle I will tend to say that it was physical means while this depicted was energy based

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/DCnU/DARKSEID/LastScan14_zps9e4369e7.jpg

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
As for "other writers" and "old reviews" believe me, I think the word of Peter David is better that the word of Scan Daddy. Other writers have stated and shown that Superman will destroy the Hulk, lets take Joe Casey for example, he had the Hulk getting choke by a giant snake, while he portrayed Superman with standing the pressure of the center of the earth and a star. and that is just one example.

Are you serious with this? So because Hulk had one low showing and Superman had a high end showing under this same writer, it means Superman....

Actually nvm. Going to stick on topic. Ugh, f*cking Superman. EVERY SINGLE F*CKING TIME. It's like the entire fanbase has an inferiority complex.

No evidence Darkseid destroyed the planet physically.

Originally posted by carver9
Also, for someone that can take out Imperiex, why did Superman almost die from one attack from Imperiex Prime? Darkseid had to save him. Abhi always does this to threads. He comes in talks trash about Hulk and Thor in a trollish manner and starts. He then says he isn't doing anything wrong. I mean he is even attacking Thor who isn't even in his thread by comments such as "puny god."

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Are you serious with this? So because Hulk had one low showing and Superman had a high end showing under this same writer, it means Superman....

Actually nvm. Going to stick on topic. Ugh, f*cking Superman. EVERY SINGLE F*CKING TIME. It's like the entire fanbase has an inferiority complex.

This is going to turn ugly soon. Good luck trying to deal with carver and quan salsa. I'm going to heed bada's advice. Not eager to get banned again.

@ Rage calling a fanbase with inferiority complex. Comedy gold right there.

Originally posted by carver9
so Darkseid Omegas destroying a planet proves to us he is Hulks equal physically?.

You are not sure if that is OE, actually most likely by the depiction of the fight is physical

Originally posted by carver9
Come on Rao. Like I've stated before, if you want to do match comparison, you would lose since Hulk lungs is more powerful than a guy that held a planet on his shoulders and held the universe with brute strength alone.

Really? This is the most silly number throw in the history of comics, but I know you love to that

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...Pak wrote Hulk and is writing Superman and he pretty much said a holding back Hulk would kill (not beat, but kill) Superman. You showing me Darkseid taking out a planet with Omegas (lol) isn't helping your case. You showing me scans back in the 90s when Hulk power level has changed drastically doesn't help you either. I could make a claim that WWH lungs>>>Superman if I want since Herc fts of strength poops all over current Superman (that's IF I use your debating style, which I'm not).

And Casey wrote Superman to be more powerful than Galactus what's your point?

Like I said PETER DAVID >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your opinion

In other words I care for what Peter David has to say in the matter because he wrote the hulk for 12 years, so I believe he is a more accurate source of information than lets say you.

Also I will agree with Pak that a regular Superman will porbably loose vs a WB mode Hulk so I can see Paks view too, but also I can see a Joe Casey's Superman pooping all over Pak's Hulk's

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Are you serious with this? So because Hulk had one low showing and Superman had a high end showing under this same writer, it means Superman....

Actually nvm. Going to stick on topic. Ugh, f*cking Superman. EVERY SINGLE F*CKING TIME. It's like the entire fanbase has an inferiority complex.

I was bringing other examples and Casey has that point of view on those two characters, If you read Caseys run of HULK and then you read Casey's run on Superman you will notice a big difference on the power level He portrayed both.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
What ever advantage of versatility Superman or the JLA had over Doomsday was useless, meaning that versatility advantage vs Doomsday will not play a role as big as it will play with Hulk.
The VS battle on the printed book has to be approved by both companies. The interview answer does not has to be approved by the company, is an opinion shared by the writer. So I rather go with their honest opinion than with a battle portrayed to appease fans and company suits. But to be fair, I could see it as a possible outcome of the fight as Superman basically out-brawl the Hulk.





You're still comparing apples to oranges. There's a reason why Surfer's versatility means a lot more against Hulk then Thor despite how Thor matches up with Hulk.

How do you not understand that Peter David saying Superman can beat Hulk by using flight etc. to set some sort of trap up for Hulk is not applicable to Doomsday? There is a huge difference between Superman winning because of heat vision and flight and Doomsday winning by out punching Hulk. Not to mention Hulk's stature has grown in the last two decades more then any other character's I can think of.

So Hulk did as well as he did because Marvel couldn't stand to have him embarrassed or something? Lol. Ironically, that's an argument many would use for Superman and I'd guess how you'd feel about using interviews in favor of what happens in crossovers in his situation.

Superman used his flight and heat vision to his advantage in that fight, it wasn't a simple slug fest. Also, you do realize that this is the post DC vs. Marvel interview they did in Wizard that you're referencing? The fact that Hulk was in the Professor era (And they didn't even bring up angrier/stronger factor) makes the use of this even more pointless.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Ummmm.... yes I know I have said this forever, that hulk fanboys are wanking over a feat that has been achievable since the 70's

World Breaker's feat wasn't impressive JUST because his battle resulted in planetary destruction. The fact that you do not understand this like two years later is outright troubling as I'm sure this has been explained to you like a dozen times.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Yet his portrayal of planet busters says other wise, you have a problem with that? get it to him, I am just showing what he portrays on HIS comics

Hulk destroying a planet as World Breaker and Darkseid doing so doesn't in itself mean that Darkseid and World Breaker Hulk are automatically physical equals or peers (Not to mention Darkseid probably used energy powers IIRC).

These conclusions make absolutely no sense in light of the evidence we have. As far as Pak is concerned World War Hulk is easily as strong as elite top tiers and can climb far higher before even reaching World Breaker.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
You are not sure if that is OE, actually most likely by the depiction of the fight is physical



Really? This is the most silly number throw in the history of comics, but I know you love to that



And Casey wrote Superman to be more powerful than Galactus what's your point?

Like I said PETER DAVID >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your opinion

In other words I care for what Peter David has to say in the matter because he wrote the hulk for 12 years, so I believe he is a more accurate source of information than lets say you.

Also I will agree with Pak that a regular Superman will porbably loose vs a WB mode Hulk so I can see Paks view too, but also I can see a Joe Casey's Superman pooping all over Pak's Hulk's

You are the only one that is saying physical.

Lol..ok, stick to your 90s scan while I hold on to a more current source.

Lol again, Pak said WWH would kill Superman...WBH wasn't even introduced yet when Pak said this. WBH would melt Superman with a punch.

With that said, all of your attempts failed. You really don't have an argument here. Just give it up buddy.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
But yeah I agree We are not 100% sure how this was accomplished, though by the depiction of the battle I will tend to say that it was physical means while this depicted was energy based Not saying this isn't possible. Just saying that we can't know for sure, because we didn't see how it was done.

So yea hulk wins

Originally posted by abhilegend
Jurgens' superman was less than a nuisance to Jurgens' doomsday. So was Superman. This is the same Jurgens who had superman no sell adamantium cutting lasers like nothing BTW.

http://i.imgur.com/a5hOGyM.jpg

You asked for writer intent and I provided two writers' intents. Sorry its not for your liking. Nice try, but crossovers are non cannon so they don't count. Besides like I've said before this is a DOOMSDAY VS HULK thread, not HULK VS SUPERMAN. Just because Superman can do something does mean that Doomsday can also do it by default. Using your logic a Kryptonite hollow point to the skull would kill Doomsday, since it would kill Superman.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Doomsday is only comparable to hulk via comparison with superman since he doesn't have any independent feats like Hulk does. The OP, specifically said feats. As in Doomsday and Hulk feats. It's not like Doomsday is a new character that has only been around for less than a year. The Doomsday character has been around for over 20 years, HP Doomsday for almost 20 years. He does have independent feats, Doomsday Year 1 for example. Nothing in that suggested that Doomsday would be significantly faster or more powerful than Hulk. If after 20 years Doomsday still doesn't have enough of his own feats to win a battle based on feats then Hulk wins by default.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Originally posted by Brockalizer
Using your logic a Kryptonite hollow point to the skull would kill Doomsday, since it would kill Superman.

It might, seeing as Kryptonite hurts Doomy too.



My next thread, Living Tribunal vs Superman benchpressing thread

Doomsday.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

My next thread, Living Tribunal vs Superman benchpressing thread LT would have a chance, but only because Superman's "bench pressing the Earth for 5days" wouldn't count since technically speaking it wasn't a bench press exercise. It all depends on how you word the thread.

Originally posted by carver9
Just want to throw out there that you are on ignore ABHI...per Pr request. I have a feeling you are replying to my comment. Let Rao handle this.

So you put everyone on ignore who you can't convert and who uses logic when sifting through your Hulk exaggerations? What a little titbaby, lol. I will never put someone on ignore for disagreeing with me.

DD wins btw.




...smdh carver

Wow. Voting is tied 50/50.

I would say that this is about as close to a Draw as you can get.

Doomsday is DC's version of Hulk.

'Nuff said?

Originally posted by jaxthejester
Wow. Voting is tied 50/50.

I would say that this is about as close to a Draw as you can get.

Doomsday is DC's version of Hulk.

'Nuff said?


Both can adapt, both have super speed, both jump great heights, they even added 'madder he gets the stronger he gets' to Doomsday. I don't know if it's on the level of Hulk but it's there. Doomsday is a replica of Savage Hulk, he is a lil lamer though.

Originally posted by Brockalizer
Nice try, but crossovers are non cannon so they don't count. Besides like I've said before this is a DOOMSDAY VS HULK thread, not HULK VS SUPERMAN. Just because Superman can do something does mean that Doomsday can also do it by default. Using your logic a Kryptonite hollow point to the skull would kill Doomsday, since it would kill Superman.

The OP, specifically said feats. As in Doomsday and Hulk feats. It's not like Doomsday is a new character that has only been around for less than a year. The Doomsday character has been around for over 20 years, HP Doomsday for almost 20 years. He does have independent feats, Doomsday Year 1 for example. Nothing in that suggested that Doomsday would be significantly faster or more powerful than Hulk. If after 20 years Doomsday still doesn't have enough of his own feats to win a battle based on feats then Hulk wins by default.
Writer's intent bro. Writer's intent was that Superman can withstand adamantium cutting lasers. And anything Superman can do in durability, Doomsday can definitely do it since he is far more durable than Superman.

Haha, what? HP doomsday was a specific version of character who appeared in only 7 issues and was killed after that and replaced by other version of character.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Writer's intent bro. Writer's intent was that Superman can withstand adamantium cutting lasers. And anything Superman can do in durability, Doomsday can definitely do it since he is far more durable than Superman.

Haha, what? HP doomsday was a specific version of character who appeared in only 7 issues and was killed after that and replaced by other version of character. It isn't canon though. You also ignore certain writers intent while championing specific parts advantageous to your agenda.


Hp Doomsday lacks the Hulk's feats and portrayal. We also know the writer of Hp specifically addressed Doomsday's power level which is roughly on par with a different Superman at 95 percent power level.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


It might, seeing as Kryptonite hurts Doomy too.



My next thread, Living Tribunal vs Superman benchpressing thread Holy shit Darksaint, i thought you were dead

So is this basically HP Doomsday vs. The Hulk? If so, DD takes it much more than not. I dont see Hulk taking on Superman, Orion and Jonn together, or slaughtering Darkseid (Both feats with ease), HP DD has done so. HP DD is everything Hulk is, and More.

Originally posted by DTM
So is this basically HP Doomsday vs. The Hulk? If so, DD takes it much more than not. I dont see Hulk taking on Superman, Orion and Jonn together, or slaughtering Darkseid (Both feats with ease), HP DD has done so. HP DD is everything Hulk is, and More. By the same writer Darkseid isn't that powerful it is his mind which makes him dangerous. The writer believes Doomsday beats him ten out of ten unless Darkseid can take countermeasures but it doesn't matter as he doesn't have a high opinion of Darkseid's physicality.

Hulks greatest portrayal ala Heart of the Monster would pulverize Doomsday.

So is this the strongest version of Hulk vs. HP Doomsday, or just standard Hulk vs DD?

Originally posted by DTM
So is this the strongest version of Hulk vs. HP Doomsday, or just standard Hulk vs DD? Greatest feats or portrayals versus each other. Hulk is on another level. Pak cemented Hulk on another levels than previously seen.

Well, OK, I suppose I could see WB Hulk beating HP DD, but it would be the only version of Hulk that I would give the win against him to.

They're not nearly as alike as some might hope, and they fulfil completely different roles in their companies.

That said, in a comic, Hulk would generally be written to win more often than not.

Hulk recent fts poops on Doomsday fts and yes, Doomsday took out Darkseid but Hulk matched a full powered Onslaught...my bad, he overpowered a fully developed Onslaught; punched his physical shell to dust. They were punching each other so hard that the shockwaves from their punches was pushing the hero's back.

Originally posted by DTM
So is this the strongest version of Hulk vs. HP Doomsday, or just standard Hulk vs DD?

no i don't think that is what the thread is getting at at all. i THINK it's more along the lines of where each could be taken ultimately. there is no reason to speculate that the hp version of dd was the finished version, that he simply couldn't have continued to evolve well beyond what we saw. i think it's simple--when the characters were written, who was intended to be the more powerful. could wbh beat dd? maybe. but that isn't the question being addressed in this thread. the question is, if both were taken as far as you believe they could go, who would ultimately be the more powerful, not who had the single greatest portrayal of power on paper. do you really think the creators of hunter/prey intended for it to be possible for one single hero to defeat him, even the company's most powerful? do you think the writers of the hotm arc really intended to display hulk as the single most powerful hero, maybe ever, in marvel? based on your answers to those questions, you'll have your answer to this thread.

Originally posted by -Pr-
in a comic, Hulk would generally be written to win more often than not.

while i'd agree with your initial statement, i'd disagree with the above statement 100%. to suggest otherwise would be akin to dd running a train on the avengers only to have hulk come in and save the day by doing what all of them combined--and in the case of hp dd, that included superman, waverider and darkseid--couldn't do. marvel would never let a guy wreck all the avengers, including thor and perhaps even surfer to keep the hp/dd analogy in check--only to have him lose single-handedly to the hulk, wbh or not. and that is the reason why i believe that based on the intent of the characters, dd would take this every time.

Originally posted by leonidas
while i'd agree with your initial statement, i'd disagree with the above statement 100%. to suggest otherwise would be akin to dd running a train on the avengers only to have hulk come in and save the day by doing what all of them combined--and in the case of hp dd, that included superman, waverider and darkseid--couldn't do. marvel would never let a guy wreck all the avengers, including thor and perhaps even surfer to keep the hp/dd analogy in check--only to have him lose single-handedly to the hulk, wbh or not. and that is the reason why i believe that based on the intent of the characters, dd would take this every time.

But Hulk has single handedly ripped through a enemy that the entire planet couldn't stop.

Originally posted by leonidas
while i'd agree with your initial statement, i'd disagree with the above statement 100%. to suggest otherwise would be akin to dd running a train on the avengers only to have hulk come in and save the day by doing what all of them combined--and in the case of hp dd, that included superman, waverider and darkseid--couldn't do. marvel would never let a guy wreck all the avengers, including thor and perhaps even surfer to keep the hp/dd analogy in check--only to have him lose single-handedly to the hulk, wbh or not. and that is the reason why i believe that based on the intent of the characters, dd would take this every time.

I thought we were talking about a straight fight, here?

In terms of general portrayals doomsday was seemingly a level above. But if we get into Pak hulk and the writer intent regarding that? Then doomsday would get absolutely annihilated. Pak wrote a hulk that was specifically meant to be exponentially more powerful than hulk ha ever been in the past....and then said that that version of hulk ( pre HOTM Worldbreaker) was holding back. Simplistic and downright retarded downplaying of that writer intent which focus on the fact that WBhulk destroyed a planet and then compare it to other cases of planetary destruction while ignoring the fact that the nature of the planetary destruction ( as well as other aspects) is what makes the feat exponentially more impressive...shows the level of willful ignorance and recalcitrance some people are willing to demonstrate in order to still preserve their idea of what hulk "should be".

Fact is I doubt any writer would have any doomsday come in and out brawl WBH as Pak intended him....just not even close.

Originally posted by Naija boy
In terms of general portrayals doomsday was seemingly a level above. But if we get into Pak hulk and the writer intent regarding that? Then doomsday would get absolutely annihilated. Pak wrote a hulk that was specifically meant to be exponentially more powerful than hulk ha ever been in the past....and then said that that version of hulk ( pre HOTM Worldbreaker) was holding back. Simplistic and downright retarded downplaying of that writer intent which focus on the fact that WBhulk destroyed a planet and then compare it to other cases of planetary destruction while ignoring the fact that the nature of the planetary destruction ( as well as other aspects) is what makes the feat exponentially more impressive...shows the level of willful ignorance and recalcitrance some people are willing to demonstrate in order to still preserve their idea of what hulk "should be".

Fact is I doubt any writer would have any doomsday come in and out brawl WBH as Pak intended him....just not even close.

Originally posted by carver9
Also, for someone that can take out Imperiex, why did Superman almost die from one attack from Imperiex Prime? Darkseid had to save him.

lol at the reading comprehension fail, it says right there in plain english, Superman snapped out of his non mental block state.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You're still comparing apples to oranges.

Ummm. Marvel and DC are like apples and oranges

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
There's a reason why Surfer's versatility means a lot more against Hulk then Thor despite how Thor matches up with Hulk.

Don't know if you ever notice, but Surfer does uses his powers instead rather than trying to out-brawl Hulk like Thor does. While they might be more versatile, Surfer does uses his powers and versatility and has a better record vs Hulk than Thor who does not uses his versatility and tries to out brawl the hulk. Now Superman has the Super speed advantage on top of the Superman packed punches and the heat vision, Super speed in low balled ratio of 2 to 1 is the least advantage Superman has over the Hulk and Thor does not has that advantage over the Hulk, I also mention something about the combined efforts in a blast of the JLA "pouring everything" which Doomsday just with stood with one hand tied behind back. IIRC hulk does not has something close to that.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How do you not understand that Peter David saying Superman can beat Hulk by using flight etc. to set some sort of trap up for Hulk is not applicable to Doomsday?

How can you not understand that Peter David is NOT saying that Superman will lay out a trap, he said Hulk could win if he sets a trap, please read the interview again.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
There is a huge difference between Superman winning because of heat vision and flight and Doomsday winning by out punching Hulk.

I will suggest for you to re-read the interview, Peter David is not saying that Superman will win because of "heat vision and flight" but because of his COMBINATION of "strength, invulnerability, super speed and heat vision" as for Doomsday, he has the strength, speed, poison, adaptability, invulnerability and Healing factor

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Not to mention Hulk's stature has grown in the last two decades more then any other character's I can think of.

Lol no, I think this is why you champion the Hulk more than Thor now a days, since you dog does not bite hard enough, you have to find a better dog. Hulks has decent showings and like most popular characters grows in power over time.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So Hulk did as well as he did because Marvel couldn't stand to have him embarrassed or something? Lol. Ironically, that's an argument many would use for Superman and I'd guess how you'd feel about using interviews in favor of what happens in crossovers in his situation.

Yes, I believe so, Superman has to be toned down when facing the Hulk, otherwise, it will be boring. and lol at your attempt of trying to dismiss the interview, I am using the interview, because if you had not read the OP is called "W-r-i-t-e-r-'s I-n-t-e-n-t"

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Superman used his flight and heat vision to his advantage in that fight,

Barely

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
it wasn't a simple slug fest.

Mostly,yes

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Also, you do realize that this is the post DC vs. Marvel interview they did in Wizard that you're referencing? The fact that Hulk was in the Professor era (And they didn't even bring up angrier/stronger factor) makes the use of this even more pointless.

The fact that Superman defeated the Hulk in a "mostly" slug fest speaks volumes, not to mention that this is not a regular but a hulk who is stronger at base than other incarnations of hulk and what it baffles me is that probably you do not even know that Peter David gave this interview when he had almost explored all the Hulk personas he came up with and all the Hulk personas that were already established.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
World Breaker's feat wasn't impressive JUST because his battle resulted in planetary destruction. The fact that you do not understand this like two years later is outright troubling as I'm sure this has been explained to you like a dozen times.

No,I have read it and still I don't see what's the fuzz about as I have read Hulk comics previous Pak Era, I know Hulk strength is POTENTIALLY limitless, so He did what he has done since always. with the difference that now hulk holds back and the introduction of green scar persona, pak added to the Hulk mitos, but no where near of what Peter David did with the Hulk.


Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hulk destroying a planet as World Breaker and Darkseid doing so doesn't in itself mean that Darkseid and World Breaker Hulk are automatically physical equals or peers (Not to mention Darkseid probably used energy powers IIRC).

What the heck is this, I mentioned How PAK portrays a power level to bust a planet, PAK, not me, and the depiction of the art point at a physical fight with a punch about to being thrown BEFORE the planet explodes.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
These conclusions make absolutely no sense in light of the evidence we have. As far as Pak is concerned World War Hulk is easily as strong as elite top tiers and can climb far higher before even reaching World Breaker.

lol no, did Carver hacked this account?

@ Rage. Simply baffling.

Originally posted by carver9
You are the only one that is saying physical.

Depicted physically, let me ask you this Carver, did Darkseid seem to use a physical attack or an energy attack in this scan?

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/DCnU/DARKSEID/th_LastScan14_zps9e4369e7.jpg

Now in this one, does he seems to be ready to use a physical attack or an energy attack?

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/DCnU/DARKSEID/th_LastScan11_zps61d31c21.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Lol..ok, stick to your 90s scan while I hold on to a more current source.

I am sticking with what David rather than you, has to say on the matter, unless you think Greg Pak is a more influential writer then Peter David on the Hulk's matter?


Originally posted by carver9
Lol again, Pak said WWH would kill Superman...WBH wasn't even introduced yet when Pak said this. WBH would melt Superman with a punch.

LOL, No Carver, OK I tell you what I accept that if you accept what Joe Casey said about Superman, that not even Galactus will stop him, does that sounds like a fair trade of idiocy to you?

Originally posted by carver9
With that said, all of your attempts failed. You really don't have an argument here. Just give it up buddy.

Like your attempt to show the equivalent of Hulk defeating a going all out JLA with one hand tied behind his back?



NOW Back on Topic and a question to the OP

Will this writer's intent is only involving certain writers or any writer who has worked with the Hulk and Doomsday?

Originally posted by -Pr-
I thought we were talking about a straight fight, here?

that wasn't my understanding of the thread....i think it's more an opinion thread on what each character is intended to be. again, i'm not sure anyone would unanimously agree that hulk--even wbh--was intended to be far more powerful than marvel's biggest guns, namely thor or ss. in fact i've seen the threads. it is clear that dd was intended to be far beyond superman, dc's greatest. but he was also far beyond even darkseid, one of dc's iconic villains. the intimation of power is crystal clear. with wbh we had umar bascially cracking jokes while hulk was going off. while his feat was greater than anything dd did, i think the intentions of the characters are blatantly different. while umar was cracking jokes, darkseid himself was terrified of dd and in fact feared for all of apokalips. superman was likewise terrified. again, a clear difference in terms of portrayal and seeming intent. also, the comparison in characters involved matters imo--had we seen wbh destroy thor and ss without effort, it WOULD carry a lot more weight than bi-beast and the others. the fodder effect can't be ignored in the overall picture. while the feat is awesome, the feats are not what are necessarily be compared here. it is the intention of each, what each is supposed to represent. imo, dd was intended to be clearly beyond even dc's most powerful heroes and villains. hulk? not so sure we can say that, at least not as clearly. again, imo.

Originally posted by leonidas
while i'd agree with your initial statement, i'd disagree with the above statement 100%. to suggest otherwise would be akin to dd running a train on the avengers only to have hulk come in and save the day by doing what all of them combined--and in the case of hp dd, that included superman, waverider and darkseid--couldn't do. marvel would never let a guy wreck all the avengers, including thor and perhaps even surfer to keep the hp/dd analogy in check--only to have him lose single-handedly to the hulk, wbh or not. and that is the reason why i believe that based on the intent of the characters, dd would take this every time.



Originally posted by leonidas
that wasn't my understanding of the thread....i think it's more an opinion thread on what each character is intended to be. again, i'm not sure anyone would unanimously agree that hulk--even wbh--was intended to be far more powerful than marvel's biggest guns, namely thor or ss. in fact i've seen the threads. it is clear that dd was intended to be far beyond superman, dc's greatest. but he was also far beyond even darkseid, one of dc's iconic villains. the intimation of power is crystal clear. with wbh we had umar bascially cracking jokes while hulk was going off. while his feat was greater than anything dd did, i think the intentions of the characters are blatantly different. while umar was cracking jokes, darkseid himself was terrified of dd and in fact feared for all of apokalips. superman was likewise terrified. again, a clear difference in terms of portrayal and seeming intent. also, the comparison in characters involved matters imo--had we seen wbh destroy thor and ss without effort, it WOULD carry a lot more weight than bi-beast and the others. the fodder effect can't be ignored in the overall picture. while the feat is awesome, the feats are not what are necessarily be compared here. it is the intention of each, what each is supposed to represent. imo, dd was intended to be clearly beyond even dc's most powerful heroes and villains. hulk? not so sure we can say that, at least not as clearly. again, imo.

@Rao...

Got a question buddy. Since versatility plays a huge role in your argument, would you give Surfer a 10/10 against Superman?

Originally posted by carver9
@Rao...

Got a question buddy. Since versatility plays a huge role in your argument, would you give Surfer a 10/10 against Superman?

I think Surfer puts a better fight than the Hulk, for sure, buddy

Originally posted by leonidas
that wasn't my understanding of the thread....i think it's more an opinion thread on what each character is intended to be. again, i'm not sure anyone would unanimously agree that hulk--even wbh--was intended to be far more powerful than marvel's biggest guns, namely thor or ss. in fact i've seen the threads. it is clear that dd was intended to be far beyond superman, dc's greatest. but he was also far beyond even darkseid, one of dc's iconic villains. the intimation of power is crystal clear. with wbh we had umar bascially cracking jokes while hulk was going off. while his feat was greater than anything dd did, i think the intentions of the characters are blatantly different. while umar was cracking jokes, darkseid himself was terrified of dd and in fact feared for all of apokalips. superman was likewise terrified. again, a clear difference in terms of portrayal and seeming intent. also, the comparison in characters involved matters imo--had we seen wbh destroy thor and ss without effort, it WOULD carry a lot more weight than bi-beast and the others. the fodder effect can't be ignored in the overall picture. while the feat is awesome, the feats are not what are necessarily be compared here. it is the intention of each, what each is supposed to represent. imo, dd was intended to be clearly beyond even dc's most powerful heroes and villains. hulk? not so sure we can say that, at least not as clearly. again, imo.

Ah. That's opening a whole can of worms, imo.

What I will say is that I always viewed Hulk and Superman as occupying largely the same role on their team when it comes to fight. They don't arrive first, or if they do, they're taken out quickly while the rest of the team does battle. When they get their second wind, or finally arrive, the team has largely been beaten down, and they're the ones that turn the tide, whether it be for a short time or a long time.

Doomsday, typically, is written with the intent that he beats all comers. He's supposed to be above any team or one person for the most part, but he's not unbeatable; beating him should come at a cost, as we saw in DOS. He's the boogeyman.

The big problem, is that once you start taking power levels in to account, things get derailed quite quickly, and writer intent can go out the window.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I think Surfer puts a better fight than the Hulk, for sure, buddy


Surfer has everyone of Superman powers plus a thousand more. If this is a versatility argument, using your style of debate, Surfer should pull a 10/10, correct. This also include Lanterns. They are able to create Kryptonite...would you give them a 10/10 against Superman.

As for your comment about Superman vs Imperiex...does Superman mental block have anything to do with his durability (decrease or increase it). If not, why would a writer say Superman would beat Imperiex if Imperiex Prime could kill Superman with one attack?

I don't think Surfer could beat Superman 10/10...it's debatable if he could pull a majority...I'm just pointing out how crazy your argument is.

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer has everyone of Superman powers plus a thousand more. If this is a versatility argument, using your style of debate, Surfer should pull a 10/10, correct. Thus also include Lanterns. They are able to create Kryptonite...would you give them a 10/10 against Superman.

As for your comment about Superman vs Imperiex...does Superman mental block have anything to do with his durability (decrease or increase it). If not, why would a writer say Superman would beat Imperiex if Imperiex Prime could kill Superman with one attack?

All this will be answered if you read Superman comics or Surfer comics.

As for what Casey said on the interview, it is written on plain English, as much as you hate to read, I will suggest you do it, so you can understand it, instead of trying to bait me with questions and avoiding the topic at hand

as for "my argument" brainiac the op says writers intent "my argument" is Peter David's (a writer) argument "a COMBINATION of strength, invulnerability, super speed and heat vision" he says that it is too much and enough to defeat the Hulk

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
All this will be answered if you read Superman comics or Surfer comics.

As for what Casey said on the interview, it is written on plain English, as much as you hate to read, I will suggest you do it, so you can understand it, instead of trying to bait me with questions and avoiding the topic at hand

I read Superman comics...probably read more than you. That still doesn't answer my question.

I'm not baiting you. Im asking you a simple question. If a writer said Gladiator could kill Superman with ease but during the time they fought, Superman hits him one time and kill Gladiator, wouldn't that contradict what was stated about Gladiator?

So Superman mental block does have something to do with his durability? Is this what you are saying? If you say yes, I have another question for you.

Originally posted by carver9
So Superman mental block does have something to do with his durability? Is this what you are saying? If you say yes, I have another question for you.

LOL

That is what APPARENTLY Joe Casey is saying, but shoot the question

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
LOL

That is what Joe Casey is saying, but shoot the question

But his showing against Imperiex states otherwise.

My question is...do you have a scan proving Superman durability is dependent on his mindset? Never knew his powers worked like Gladiators of Sentry.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Ah. That's opening a whole can of worms, imo.

What I will say is that I always viewed Hulk and Superman as occupying largely the same role on their team when it comes to fight. They don't arrive first, or if they do, they're taken out quickly while the rest of the team does battle. When they get their second wind, or finally arrive, the team has largely been beaten down, and they're the ones that turn the tide, whether it be for a short time or a long time.

Doomsday, typically, is written with the intent that he beats all comers. He's supposed to be above any team or one person for the most part, but he's not unbeatable; beating him should come at a cost, as we saw in DOS. He's the boogeyman.

i agree with this almost completely, especially the underlined part.



no doubt. which is why i think the discussion of feats in this thread is actually a bit counter-productive. it muddles the spirit of this thread and turns it into high-end vs high-end. i don't believe that was the intent of this thread. anywho, i think we're on the same page. welcome to the side of right.

Superman's powers (strength, durability, speed) can all be affected by how much solar energy he's absorbing. The more he absorbs, the stronger, more durable, and faster he gets.

Why are people even asking this? I thought people read the comics?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman's powers (strength, durability, speed) can all be affected by how much solar energy he's absorbing. The more he absorbs, the stronger, more durable, and faster he gets.

Why are people even asking this? I thought people read the comics?

I agree with this 100%. That's not my question though. I'm asking Rao if Superman durability is dependent on his mindset...not solar absorption. Help me out here since Rao doesn't want to answer it.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree with this 100%. That's not my question though. I'm asking Rao if Superman durability is dependent on his mindset...not solar absorption. Help me out here since Rao doesn't want to answer it.

His solar absorption is tied in to his mindset, though. I thought you knew this?

Originally posted by -Pr-
His solar absorption is tied in to his mindset, though. I thought you knew this?

Yes, I know that...I posted the scan before. During the scene we are discussing, the sun wasn't even nearby...there wasn't any solar energy to absorb.

Pretty sure the writers intend for Carver not to read or talk about their comics.

well played.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Pretty sure the writers intend for Carver not to read or talk about their comics.

Originally posted by carver9
Yes, I know that...I posted the scan before. During the scene we are discussing, the sun wasn't even nearby...there wasn't any solar energy to absorb.

what scene.

Originally posted by -Pr-
what scene.

The Superman and Doomsday scene during the Imperiex Probe scene.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Writer's intent bro. Writer's intent was that Superman can withstand adamantium cutting lasers. And anything Superman can do in durability, Doomsday can definitely do it since he is far more durable than Superman.

Haha, what? HP doomsday was a specific version of character who appeared in only 7 issues and was killed after that and replaced by other version of character. I wish I could spell this out in crayon for you so that any round headed chimp-like creature can understand what I am trying to say. Doomsday is not Superman. In a thread that depends on feats from both Doomsday and Hulk you can't just cherry pick scans of Superman and basically say "Doomsday can do that". Going off of WRITERS INTENT it has been made abundantly clear over the years that Doomsday has been intended be able to evolve and adapt to attacks that don't kill him after the first few tries. Making him a threat to almost any living being. Sure he has beaten up and killed some impressive individuals, but as far as combat strength feats(punching power and or collateral damage) go that is pretty flimsy. Hulk has been shown to get consistently stronger and more durable the angrier he gets, regardless of the strength of the opponent. His footstep have literally caused earthquakes and his fists/hands have destroyed the indestructible, have shaken realities, have broken through time, have destroyed armies with their shock waves, and have destroyed dimensional barriers. Doomsday is only a direct physical threat to the people living on the planet. Meaning that "if he sees you he will try to kill you". Hulk has powered upto levels that not only kill his opponents, but also endanger the both the planets entire population AND it's overall structural integrity. Hulk has been proven to be extremely durable and hard to kill as well. Doomsday has been physically beaten to death, Hulk has not, but he has been close. Hulk has been eaten alive, survived it, and recovered. Doomsday has received that type of damage (Doomsday year 1) and when he did he DIED from it and THEN recovered and evolved. Based on the Doomsday's own punching and strength feats there is no reason to believe that he would be capable of one shot killing the Hulk. Sure, Hulk would take damage from Doomsday's punches, but they wouldn't kill him, just piss him off until he powers up to a level well beyond what Doomsday has at the time. Hulk on the other hand doesn't have to on shot kill Doomsday he just needs to power-up enough to either A.) break the planet just by walking thus winning by BFR when Doomsday is hurtled away in the explosion or B.) rip him in half like a phone book.

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk matched a full powered Onslaught...my bad, he overpowered a fully developed Onslaught; punched his physical shell to dust. They were punching each other so hard that the shockwaves from their punches was pushing the hero's back.

Except Hulk was technically "amped" when this happened...

Originally posted by Brockalizer
I wish I could spell this out in crayon for you so that any round headed chimp-like creature can understand what I am trying to say. Doomsday is not Superman. In a thread that depends on feats from both Doomsday and Hulk you can't just cherry pick scans of Superman and basically say "Doomsday can do that". Going off of WRITERS INTENT it has been made abundantly clear over the years that Doomsday has been intended be able to evolve and adapt to attacks that don't kill him after the first few tries. Making him a threat to almost any living being. Sure he has beaten up and killed some impressive individuals, but as far as combat strength feats(punching power and or collateral damage) go that is pretty flimsy. Hulk has been shown to get consistently stronger and more durable the angrier he gets, regardless of the strength of the opponent. His footstep have literally caused earthquakes and his fists/hands have destroyed the indestructible, have shaken realities, have broken through time, have destroyed armies with their shock waves, and have destroyed dimensional barriers. Doomsday is only a direct physical threat to the people living on the planet. Meaning that "if he sees you he will try to kill you". Hulk has powered upto levels that not only kill his opponents, but also endanger the both the planets entire population AND it's overall structural integrity. Hulk has been proven to be extremely durable and hard to kill as well. Doomsday has been physically beaten to death, Hulk has not, but he has been close. Hulk has been eaten alive, survived it, and recovered. Doomsday has received that type of damage (Doomsday year 1) and when he did he DIED from it and THEN recovered and evolved. Based on the Doomsday's own punching and strength feats there is no reason to believe that he would be capable of one shot killing the Hulk. Sure, Hulk would take damage from Doomsday's punches, but they wouldn't kill him, just piss him off until he powers up to a level well beyond what Doomsday has at the time. Hulk on the other hand doesn't have to on shot kill Doomsday he just needs to power-up enough to either A.) break the planet just by walking thus winning by BFR when Doomsday is hurtled away in the explosion or B.) rip him in half like a phone book.

People dont realize this. The longer the fight goes on, the more of a chance you have at losing. Hulk is a dangerous opponent to fight and the only way Doomsday is winning this is by one shotting the Hulk and looking at Hulk recent portrayals, it aint happening.

Originally posted by leonidas
no i don't think that is what the thread is getting at at all. i THINK it's more along the lines of where each could be taken ultimately. there is no reason to speculate that the hp version of dd was the finished version, that he simply couldn't have continued to evolve well beyond what we saw. i think it's simple--when the characters were written, who was intended to be the more powerful. could wbh beat dd? maybe. but that isn't the question being addressed in this thread. the question is, if both were taken as far as you believe they could go, who would ultimately be the more powerful, not who had the single greatest portrayal of power on paper. do you really think the creators of hunter/prey intended for it to be possible for one single hero to defeat him, even the company's most powerful? do you think the writers of the hotm arc really intended to display hulk as the single most powerful hero, maybe ever, in marvel? based on your answers to those questions, you'll have your answer to this thread. I already posted the writers intent on Doomsday with regards to HP. Your own opinion on the matter goes against the guy who penned HP.

Originally posted by carver9
Yes, I know that...I posted the scan before.

If you already knew it, then why were you asking?

Lol...I had to be sneaky and clicked on Odekahns post. As for your comment, I don't think you read my post. Reread it buddy.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Pretty sure the writers intend for Carver not to read or talk about their comics. post of the year

After several beatings from Hulk...

Doomsday finally evolves into a Marvel character.

Originally posted by jaxthejester
After several beatings from Hulk...

Doomsday finally evolves into a Marvel character.

Originally posted by Brockalizer
I wish I could spell this out in crayon for you so that any round headed chimp-like creature can understand what I am trying to say. Doomsday is not Superman. In a thread that depends on feats from both Doomsday and Hulk you can't just cherry pick scans of Superman and basically say "Doomsday can do that". Going off of WRITERS INTENT it has been made abundantly clear over the years that Doomsday has been intended be able to evolve and adapt to attacks that don't kill him after the first few tries. Making him a threat to almost any living being. Sure he has beaten up and killed some impressive individuals, but as far as combat strength feats(punching power and or collateral damage) go that is pretty flimsy. Hulk has been shown to get consistently stronger and more durable the angrier he gets, regardless of the strength of the opponent. His footstep have literally caused earthquakes and his fists/hands have destroyed the indestructible, have shaken realities, have broken through time, have destroyed armies with their shock waves, and have destroyed dimensional barriers. Doomsday is only a direct physical threat to the people living on the planet. Meaning that "if he sees you he will try to kill you". Hulk has powered upto levels that not only kill his opponents, but also endanger the both the planets entire population AND it's overall structural integrity. Hulk has been proven to be extremely durable and hard to kill as well. Doomsday has been physically beaten to death, Hulk has not, but he has been close. Hulk has been eaten alive, survived it, and recovered. Doomsday has received that type of damage (Doomsday year 1) and when he did he DIED from it and THEN recovered and evolved. Based on the Doomsday's own punching and strength feats there is no reason to believe that he would be capable of one shot killing the Hulk. Sure, Hulk would take damage from Doomsday's punches, but they wouldn't kill him, just piss him off until he powers up to a level well beyond what Doomsday has at the time. Hulk on the other hand doesn't have to on shot kill Doomsday he just needs to power-up enough to either A.) break the planet just by walking thus winning by BFR when Doomsday is hurtled away in the explosion or B.) rip him in half like a phone book.
And you're being your usual marvel cock stroking self where Namor can beat doomsday. Doomsday isn't superman, he is far stronger and far more durable. Can hulk grow stronger and more durable? Yes. Is he typically even as strong as Superman? No. Doomsday beats the shit out of him before he grows strong enough to beat him. There is a reason Thor and Thing hang with hulk in slugfests like a dozen times, Hulk doesn't grow strong enough to beat them fully. Now Thor and Thing would beat Doomsday in a slugfests too?

HP Doomsday shreds Hulk.

Doomsday is too fast and becomes tougher as the fight goes on.

DOS Doomsday COULD lose to Hulk but it would still be a hard fight for Hulk.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...I had to be sneaky and clicked on Odekahns post. As for your comment, I don't think you read my post. Reread it buddy.

Respectfully carver, I still feel I read it correctly the first time. You were asking Rao for proof of Superman's durability being tied to his mindset, and then When Pr said it's always been that way, you said "I know". So... Do you?

Originally posted by abhilegend
And you're being your usual marvel cock stroking self where Namor can beat doomsday. Doomsday isn't superman, he is far stronger and far more durable. Can hulk grow stronger and more durable? Yes. Is he typically even as strong as Superman? No. Doomsday beats the shit out of him before he grows strong enough to beat him. There is a reason Thor and Thing hang with hulk in slugfests like a dozen times, Hulk doesn't grow strong enough to beat them fully. Now Thor and Thing would beat Doomsday in a slugfests too? Are you ever gonna actually post a scan or cite an instance where Doomsday, not Superman, was actually powerful enough to even come close to causing the same power output or collateral damage that a high end Hulk can or are you just gonna keep trolling? If these things you say are true you should have no problem proving it. I have cited specific examples of actual feats, you have just posted Superman scans and tried to pass the off as default Doomsday feats. When Doomsday and Superman slug it out, windows break. When a high end Hulk slugs it out with another powerful opponent entire planets have been threatened. Apparently you think that glass in the DC universe is more durable than adamantium in the Marvelverse.

If you guys aren't going to stay on topic, then I really don't see a reason to keep this open. I will, however, warn people before closing it.

This is about writer intent, not power levels.

And seriously, what's with the lowballing? Are you all so ****ing insecure?

Originally posted by Brockalizer
Are you ever gonna actually post a scan or cite an instance where Doomsday, not Superman, was actually powerful enough to even come close to causing the same power output or collateral damage that a high end Hulk can or are you just gonna keep trolling? If these things you say are true you should have no problem proving it. I have cited specific examples of actual feats, you have just posted Superman scans and tried to pass the off as default Doomsday feats. When Doomsday and Superman slug it out, windows break. When a high end Hulk slugs it out with another powerful opponent entire planets have been threatened. Apparently you think that glass in the DC universe is more durable than adamantium in the Marvelverse.
Like beating Orion and J'onn in one minute? Doomsday doesn't have any lifting feat but neither does beings like Kurse and Thanos. But you would give them win against hulk because they are from marvel, right? Who the **** is trolling here except you? Feats like busting planets rarely contribute in a fight. A random new god can create "twisted new universes."

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/newgod.jpg

Remember what happened when Doomsday arrived at Apokolips? He pushed the whole planet's shit in. What has Hulk done to show he can do to a planet of such beings where a random new god can create universes? That's why feats matter when they are done against characters. punching time and whatnot means little.

Except that's DOS doomsday and HOTM hulk. Two specified versions of hulk and doomsday. When Superman and Kal-L punched each other, they destroyed the boundaries of space time itself.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Crazy%20Feats/adventuresof649a.jpg

Those are random collateral damage feats. Mean little as well.

Are you going to pretend that everyone in DC is weak compared to marvel like always?

Guys, this. Isn't. About. Power. Levels.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, this. Isn't. About. Power. Levels.
That's what I was saying. I was saying that these random power level feats are meaningless when character fights. In most writers' intent is that Hulk is somewhat above Thor's strength but not so much above that Thor can't give him fight in a slugfest. H/P Doomsday is so far above people like Thor and Superman that they can't give him a fight at all, he simply ragdolls them.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, this. Isn't. About. Power. Levels.
That's what I was saying. I was saying that these random power level feats are meaningless when character fights. In most writers' intent is that Hulk is somewhat above Thor's strength but not so much above that Thor can't give him fight in a slugfest. H/

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Ultimately, Hulk.
This.

Yup^

Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, this. Isn't. About. Power. Levels. It's about writers intent and feats. The Hulk's power levels are relevant in that they corroborate the writers intent, that Hulk is the "strongest one there is".

Originally posted by abhilegend
Like beating Orion and J'onn in one minute? Doomsday doesn't have any lifting feat but neither does beings like Kurse and Thanos. But you would give them win against hulk because they are from marvel, right? Who the **** is trolling here except you? Feats like busting planets rarely contribute in a fight. A random new god can create "twisted new universes."

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/newgod.jpg

Remember what happened when Doomsday arrived at Apokolips? He pushed the whole planet's shit in. What has Hulk done to show he can do to a planet of such beings where a random new god can create universes? That's why feats matter when they are done against characters. punching time and whatnot means little.

Except that's DOS doomsday and HOTM hulk. Two specified versions of hulk and doomsday. When Superman and Kal-L punched each other, they destroyed the boundaries of space time itself.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Crazy%20Feats/adventuresof649a.jpg

Those are random collateral damage feats. Mean little as well.

Are you going to pretend that everyone in DC is weak compared to marvel like always? Nice try, but those collateral damage feats that you casually dismiss illustrate strength and power, and helps to cement the writer's intent that Hulk is the strongest there is. When Doomsday fights a super powered being he rarely kills them, rather he hits them a couple times and then moves on to another target. He is a total ADHD fighter. The only reason Superman died was because he lacked the ability to get stronger the longer the fight drags on like the Hulk does. More than likely Doomsday would hit Hulk a few times and rather than sticking around to finish Hulk off, he would move on to his next victim. Hulk would get angrier, stronger and then re-engage. The writers intent for Doomsday is abundantly clear. He can evolve and adapt, but he isn't invincible. If he is killed one way it will take something more powerful to kill him again. Hulk has destroyed more indestructible objects than Doomsday has, Hulk has survived more catastrophic damage than Doomsday has. Hulk has tanked planet busting attacks, something Doomsday has never even encountered.

Originally posted by Brockalizer
Nice try, but those collateral damage feats that you casually dismiss illustrate strength and power, and helps to cement the writer's intent that Hulk is the strongest there is. When Doomsday fights a super powered being he rarely kills them, rather he hits them a couple times and then moves on to another target. He is a total ADHD fighter. The only reason Superman died was because he lacked the ability to get stronger the longer the fight drags on like the Hulk does. More than likely Doomsday would hit Hulk a few times and rather than sticking around to finish Hulk off, he would move on to his next victim. Hulk would get angrier, stronger and then re-engage. The writers intent for Doomsday is abundantly clear. He can evolve and adapt, but he isn't invincible. If he is killed one way it will take something more powerful to kill him again. Hulk has destroyed more indestructible objects than Doomsday has, Hulk has survived more catastrophic damage than Doomsday has. Hulk has tanked planet busting attacks, something Doomsday has never even encountered.

Originally posted by Brockalizer
Hulk has tanked planet busting attacks, something Doomsday has never even encountered.

Just wanted to say, Doomsday survived being hit by an attack so powerful, it tore a hole in space:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120267/3305317-dd_gl9.jpg

Knocked him out, sure.....but you can bet he will survive the next attack of that type.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Just wanted to say, Doomsday survived being hit by an attack so powerful, it tore a hole in space:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120267/3305317-dd_gl9.jpg

Knocked him out, sure.....but you can bet he will survive the next attack of that type.



don't see many 'planetary levels of destruction' rip holes in space/time...... and that occurred well before his evolution into the hp version which was even more powerful. some of his 'early feats' were pretty ludicrous as outlined in that series.

Honest/Non-Funny Reply :

A). Writers intent is that Hulk has no upper limit to strength. He can, in theory (which is what we are debating here)- Amp forever. Even as World Breaker, he's only scratching the surface of limitless potential.

B). Writers intent for Doomsday is that you cannot kill him the same way twice. If you beat him to death with a Billion Ton punch... you'll need to land a 2 Billion Ton punch on the next go around.

This is a simplification; but it's also a good capsulation of the bottom line:

* Hulk amps stronger and stronger, without end (per Writer intent).
* Doomsday evolves tougher and tougher, without end (per Writer intent).

This equates to an eternal Draw. They are alternate powered analogies.

I suppose that one could argue that Hulk's Power-Set Concept means that he will constantly be "killing" Doomsday along the way (thus landing immeasurable "temporary wins" while DD evolves from "death by that particular attained level of force".

But honestly- that's just spinning it to make my preferred character win the match. When in truth- the "concept" battle would not stop until one of these two hit a limit. And these two have none.
Hulk grows more and more powerful, with no maximum strength cap.
Doomsday evolves more and more powerful, with no maximum number of deaths.

So neither can ever truly win a "Max Potential" battle against the other.
They'd just keep amping forever.

...Until something stepped in and stopped them.

unless dd evolves an offensive ability that hulk couldn't counter, or that weakens him somehow. hulk evolves strength/durability. dd evolves in multiple ways both offensively and defensively.

Originally posted by leonidas
unless dd evolves an offensive ability that hulk couldn't counter, or that weakens him somehow. hulk evolves strength/durability. dd evolves in multiple ways both offensively and defensively. Hulk's healing factor increase exponentially so that is a defensive measure which increases for the Hulk. The writer of DD said at this point in HP he would favor Superman with a nastier upbringing at 95 percent power in a known down drag out fight. Hulk's. HOTM portrayal are far superior according to this writer.

Originally posted by Brockalizer
Nice try, but those collateral damage feats that you casually dismiss illustrate strength and power, and helps to cement the writer's intent that Hulk is the strongest there is. When Doomsday fights a super powered being he rarely kills them, rather he hits them a couple times and then moves on to another target. He is a total ADHD fighter. The only reason Superman died was because he lacked the ability to get stronger the longer the fight drags on like the Hulk does. More than likely Doomsday would hit Hulk a few times and rather than sticking around to finish Hulk off, he would move on to his next victim. Hulk would get angrier, stronger and then re-engage. The writers intent for Doomsday is abundantly clear. He can evolve and adapt, but he isn't invincible. If he is killed one way it will take something more powerful to kill him again. Hulk has destroyed more indestructible objects than Doomsday has, Hulk has survived more catastrophic damage than Doomsday has. Hulk has tanked planet busting attacks, something Doomsday has never even encountered.
Hulk has also been incapable of beating Thor in like 15 slugfests despite being totally angry except LTBB. Thor doesn't get stronger either, that's a better comparison than destroying inanimate objects. Otherwise Doomsday has beaten a planetful of beings each of who can create UNIVERSES. Universe>>>>....................Planets. Don't you agree?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hulk has also been incapable of beating Thor in like 15 slugfests despite being totally angry except LTBB. Thor doesn't get stronger either, that's a better comparison than destroying inanimate objects. Otherwise Doomsday has beaten a planetful of beings each of who can create UNIVERSES. Universe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>....................Planets. Don't you agree? Way to expand the page with your ridiculousness.

Thor has a magical hammer and exceptional skill. Thor also never danced with WB hulk so it is a moot point.


Hulk's greatest showings are simply beyond DD's according to the writers themselves.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Way to expand the page with your ridiculousness.

Thor has a magical hammer and exceptional skill. Thor also never danced with WB hulk so it is a moot point.


Hulk's greatest showings are simply beyond DD's according to the writers themselves.

Beating up New God fodder is more impressive then World Breaker because they can create Universes. Smh. Even in that scenario, things scale up when arriving at the Fourth World, rendering it moot.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Just wanted to say, Doomsday survived being hit by an attack so powerful, it tore a hole in space:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120267/3305317-dd_gl9.jpg

Knocked him out, sure.....but you can bet he will survive the next attack of that type.

Always impressed with that feat!

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Beating up New God fodder is more impressive then World Breaker because they can create Universes. Smh. Even in that scenario, things scale up when arriving at the Fourth World, rendering it moot.

What does SMH mean? I've heard that a few times on these boards...

Originally posted by jaxthejester
What does SMH mean? I've heard that a few times on these boards... Shaking my head.

Who said they equalize in power when arriving in fourth world? Only the size of characters change. Darkseid has created new realities on earth too and has infused Batman with enough energy to destroy the ****ing universe.

http://i.imgur.com/Gd1UkNu.jpg

But hey, characters' feats don't matter when it suits marvel fanboys.

Originally posted by jaxthejester
What does SMH mean? I've heard that a few times on these boards...

Shaking my head.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who said they equalize in power when arriving in fourth world? Only the size of characters change. Darkseid has created new realities on earth too and has infused Batman with enough energy to destroy the ****ing universe.

http://i.imgur.com/Gd1UkNu.jpg

But hey, characters' feats don't matter when it suits marvel fanboys. Doomsday wasn't boom tubed there . He showed up and straight pwned. The writer who penned it also said Darkseid isn't very powerful and would lose ten out of ten to Doomsday.

This is the writers intention of Hp.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who said they equalize in power when arriving in fourth world? Only the size of characters change. Darkseid has created new realities on earth too and has infused Batman with enough energy to destroy the ****ing universe.

http://i.imgur.com/Gd1UkNu.jpg

But hey, characters' feats don't matter when it suits marvel fanboys.

When did Darkseid create pocket realities? How big were they?

Originally posted by Golgo13
When did Darkseid create pocket realities? How big were they? Originally posted by abhilegend
Also its not just a one time feat, Darkseid created several realities to torture Shilo Norman.

http://imgur.com/K3y1Lhw
http://imgur.com/PCLZJiJ
http://imgur.com/7GtLk09
http://imgur.com/99coZcj

These were fully formed realities as you can see characters like Superman, Captain Marvel dying and what not.

But apparently they are just space cheese.

Not pocket realities. Full formed seeing how there are characters like Captain Marvel, superman, wonder woman existing in those realities.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hulk has also been incapable of beating Thor in like 15 slugfests despite being totally angry except LTBB. Thor doesn't get stronger either, that's a better comparison than destroying inanimate objects. Otherwise Doomsday has beaten a planetful of beings each of who can create UNIVERSES. Universe>>>>....................Planets. Don't you agree? Franklin Richards can create universes too, does that mean that beating him up physically is some majorly impressive feat?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Just wanted to say, Doomsday survived being hit by an attack so powerful, it tore a hole in space:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120267/3305317-dd_gl9.jpg

Knocked him out, sure.....but you can bet he will survive the next attack of that type. Yawn, ripping a hole in space is so September 10th. Hulk has tanked attacks strong enough to destroy planets, punches strong enough to tear apart reality, and attacks that destroyed dimensional barriers.

Originally posted by Brockalizer
Yawn, ripping a hole in space is so September 10th. Hulk has tanked attacks strong enough to destroy planets, punches strong enough to tear apart reality, and attacks that destroyed dimensional barriers.