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Gorr at best

God-slayer




vs




Orion and The New Gods ( New Genesis and Apokolips)


Can Orion and the New Gods survive the Gorr onslaught or would they suffer the same fate as the other Gods of Marvel U.


No Anti life equation, Source Wall interference.

Gorr.

Since new gods can create universeS, they create one and trap Gorr into one.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17369871_Mister_Miracle.v3_001.06.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
Since new gods can create universeS, they create one and trap Gorr into one.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17369871_Mister_Miracle.v3_001.06.jpg

This isn't how they are portrayed in combat. It's like saying Odin stops time in every thread.

In a straight up fight Gorr gets wrecked. I question his ability to handle Highfather and Darkseid together let alone every New God and their mother-boxes all working at killing him at the same time.

Infinity Man could probably solo him if necessary assuming he's allowed. That said 1v1 he definitely kills the no name new gods easily and works through a lot of the rest of the named ones IMO if we use standard showings.

This would be a much better matchup for a gauntlet where he doesn't have the potential to just get swamped.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Since new gods can create universeS, they create one and trap Gorr into one.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17369871_Mister_Miracle.v3_001.06.jpg
That's actually damn impressive. What's the context behind that? Were they amped?
Originally posted by Uriel005
their mother-boxes
Completely forgot about those. Hmmm......

Is he facing them all at once at the same time or is he just dropped into the Fourth World and allowed to ran rampant? Because the second scenario is far different from the first and plays to Gorr's strengths. He's a serial killer and a predator who gets stronger the more Gods he kills.

The scenario is the same as in Thor Thunder God :God butcher, Gorr takes them on one by one.

Originally posted by the Darkone
The scenario is the same as in Thor Thunder God :God butcher, Gorr takes them on one by one. difference being that the mother boxes would figure it out pretty damn quick. New Gods of DC=/= Marvel Pantheons. They are a consolidated force and if they start getting picked off they have 2 locations to fall back to one of which is a fortress world of a mad dictator and New Genesis is no slouch when it comes to a defense considering how long they've been going at it with Apokalips

edit: furthermore Gorr doesn't have the benefit Infinity Man had in knowing the ins and outs of New Genesis/mother box systems etc.

Originally posted by zopzop
That's actually damn impressive. What's the context behind that? Were they amped?

Completely forgot about those. Hmmm......
No context and they weren't amped either. Just random new gods were creating fully formed universes. Darkseid and Highfather were so much above them that Mr. Miracle after defeating Black Racer who is an actual abstract when he realized his full new god potential was easily wrecked by Highfather.

Infinity Man wins.

Forager takes him on, and wins sneer

Gorr mauls them all.

Gorr wins unless you use high end rare space cheese feats

Its not space cheese when its characters like Odin and Galactus apparently. Galaxy busting pops up everytime in an odin thread.

mmm

Also its not just a one time feat, Darkseid created several realities to torture Shilo Norman.

http://imgur.com/K3y1Lhw
http://imgur.com/PCLZJiJ
http://imgur.com/7GtLk09
http://imgur.com/99coZcj

These were fully formed realities as you can see characters like Superman, Captain Marvel dying and what not.

But apparently they are just space cheese.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its not space cheese when its characters like Odin and Galactus apparently. Galaxy busting pops up everytime in an odin thread.

mmm don't really care what others say about Galactus or Odin. Stop crying because you're DC bias is as bad

Originally posted by zopzop
That's actually damn impressive. What's the context behind that? Were they amped? No context in particular. Scott Free simply traveled to New Genesis to visit his fellow New Gods, and he witnessed them "creating twisted universes" whilst soaring over the planet.

No they were not amped.

Originally posted by Galan007
No context in particular. Scott Free simply traveled to New Genesis to visit his fellow New Gods, and he witnessed them "creating twisted universes" whilst soaring over the planet.

No they were not amped.

it was a bad a$$ feat. i used that a couple times in ds threads, but for whatever reason, when some random god can do it, and we know ds>>>some random god, the implication never translates.... it's weird the way people view darkseid.

C'mon, you know why, leo. It's because people will never accept that Superman=/>Darkseid>>>universal powers(ie. random New Gods.)

Hmm.......and after a couple of months in that same year (in another title of New Gods'), we have Orion telling us that all mortal universeS exist inside bubbles in the one reality of New Genesis:

http://i.imgur.com/s9SAVgh.jpg?1

Originally posted by Galan007
C'mon, you know why, leo. It's because people will never accept that Superman=/>Darkseid>>>universal powers(ie. random New Gods.)

it really is that easy, isn't?

Originally posted by operator616
Hmm.......and after a couple of months in that same year (in another title of New Gods'), we have Orion telling us that all mortal universeS exist inside bubbles in the one reality of New Genesis:

http://i.imgur.com/s9SAVgh.jpg?1 Lol, yeah they were giving the New Gods a massive push that year. Shame the trend didn't stick with all writers. Heck, Morrison is the only other writer who has consistently painted them in such an uber light. He's the fella who introduced the Genesis Box in Rock of Ages, which can destroy and recreate entire universes with the push of a button. He also reminded us that the Worlogog(yet another universal power) is little more than a New God plaything.

Years later, Morrison showed us that when a single New God falls from the 4th World into the 3rd dimension, the entire 3D multiverse dies as a result(Darkseid's fall also destroyed the Milestone universe as well.) He showed us that Darkseid can close-off entire segments of time, even to a temporal adept like Rip Hunter. He introduced staggering New God tech such as the God-Bullet and Ancestor Box/Hyper-Adapter. He showed us(ala The Return of Bruce Wayne) that a massive build-up of Omega energies is sufficient to erase ALL timelines throughout creation. Etc.

In hindsight, Grant did a LOT for the New Gods(Darkseid in particular.)

New Gods can win.

Gorr was a sneaky murderer.

Arena style setting, they'll be ready for him.

Originally posted by Galan007
Lol, yeah they were giving the New Gods a massive push that year. Shame the trend didn't stick with all writers. Heck, Morrison is the only other writer who has consistently painted them in such an uber light. He's the fella who introduced the Genesis Box in Rock of Ages, which can destroy and recreate entire universes with the push of a button. He also reminded us that the Worlogog(yet another universal power) is little more than a New God plaything.

Years later, Morrison showed us that when a single New God falls from the 4th World into the 3rd dimension, the entire 3D multiverse dies as a result(Darkseid's fall also destroyed the Milestone universe as well.) He showed us that Darkseid can close-off entire segments of time, even to a temporal adept like Rip Hunter. He introduced staggering New God tech such as the God-Bullet and Ancestor Box/Hyper-Adapter. He showed us(ala The Return of Bruce Wayne) that a massive build-up of Omega energies is sufficient to erase ALL timelines throughout creation. Etc.

In hindsight, Grant did a LOT for the New Gods(Darkseid in particular.) I don't think any new god falling to the 3d would make that happen though.. I thought it was only DS that caused that effect because of his position in the universe... i.e. conception of evil.

^ It was shown in DC universe #0 (2008):

http://i.imgur.com/ev8M4I7.jpg

That's Darkseid's fall, encompassing the multiverse.

Also, as Galan said, Darkseid's omega energies (inside Bruce) was destorying reality in Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne.

Originally posted by Galan007
Lol, yeah they were giving the New Gods a massive push that year. Shame the trend didn't stick with all writers. Heck, Morrison is the only other writer who has consistently painted them in such an uber light. He's the fella who introduced the Genesis Box in Rock of Ages, which can destroy and recreate entire universes with the push of a button. He also reminded us that the Worlogog(yet another universal power) is little more than a New God plaything.

Years later, Morrison showed us that when a single New God falls from the 4th World into the 3rd dimension, the entire 3D multiverse dies as a result(Darkseid's fall also destroyed the Milestone universe as well.) He showed us that Darkseid can close-off entire segments of time, even to a temporal adept like Rip Hunter. He introduced staggering New God tech such as the God-Bullet and Ancestor Box/Hyper-Adapter. He showed us(ala The Return of Bruce Wayne) that a massive build-up of Omega energies is sufficient to erase ALL timelines throughout creation. Etc.

In hindsight, Grant did a LOT for the New Gods(Darkseid in particular.)

Yep.

Apart from the things you mentioned, Morrison also portrayed the New Gods as more like abstract beings. In those batman hidden chapter issues, he had Batman (and then Diana as well) state that the New Gods are living ideas , hence why imo Darkseid didn't really die and was attempting to resurrect himself in "the return of Bruce Wayne".

in an interview Morrison also said that this time (in final crisis) we're going to see the real new gods or something like that. the interview was on cbr but now it's erased; and he gave us hints in Final Crisis about that as well (something which is often over-looked).

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I don't think any new god falling to the 3d would make that happen though.. I thought it was only DS that caused that effect because of his position in the universe... i.e. conception of evil. Aside from the scan operator posted which depicts Darkseid's fall being responsible for flushing the prime DC multiverse down the toilet, his 'death' in the 4th World(and subsequent 'fall' into the 3rd dimension) destroyed the entire Milestone universe as well:
http://imgur.com/yI166uU
http://imgur.com/GMn05jA
Crazy.

Originally posted by operator616
Yep.

Apart from the things you mentioned, Morrison also portrayed the New Gods as more like abstract beings. In those batman hidden chapter issues, he had Batman (and then Diana as well) state that the New Gods are living ideas , hence why imo Darkseid didn't really die and was attempting to resurrect himself in "the return of Bruce Wayne".
http://imgur.com/4zsjdUX
and
http://imgur.com/EaA0Elc

Originally posted by operator616
in an interview Morrison also said that this time (in final crisis) we're going to see the real new gods or something like that. the interview was on cbr but now it's erased; and he gave us hints in Final Crisis about that as well (something which is often over-looked). Yeah, that is definitely what Morrison was getting at in FC #2:
http://imgur.com/qrHDjoa
http://imgur.com/TJZY0Bl
He simply better-clarified/defined what he meant in later tie-in issues(see the above scans.)

I know DS fall caused some of those effects.. I was saying.. I thought it was specifically because it was DS and his specific position within the continuity of the universe. Not that ANY god falling into the 3d would cause that. So you're guys are saying any god falling would cause that?

Originally posted by operator616
^ It was shown in DC universe #0 (2008):

http://i.imgur.com/ev8M4I7.jpg

That's Darkseid's fall, encompassing the multiverse.

Also, as Galan said, Darkseid's omega energies (inside Bruce) was destorying reality in Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne.



Yep.

Apart from the things you mentioned, Morrison also portrayed the New Gods as more like abstract beings. In those batman hidden chapter issues, he had Batman (and then Diana as well) state that the New Gods are living ideas , hence why imo Darkseid didn't really die and was attempting to resurrect himself in "the return of Bruce Wayne".

in an interview Morrison also said that this time (in final crisis) we're going to see the real new gods or something like that. the interview was on cbr but now it's erased; and he gave us hints in Final Crisis about that as well (something which is often over-looked).

Where do you rank FC Darkseid? Full power.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I know DS fall caused some of those effects.. I was saying.. I thought it was specifically because it was DS and his specific position within the continuity of the universe. Not that ANY god falling into the 3d would cause that. So you're guys are saying any god falling would cause that? His fall is definitely what caused said effects...

"Darkseid's falling, dragging this whole universe down as he goes. The entire structure of existence! The whole multiverse, Wally!":
http://imgur.com/jJWONzk
_______

"The impact of Darkseid's fall is causing cracks to spread through all space sectors."

"Darkseid's dragging all our friends into hell with him.":
http://imgur.com/IOmBe1n
_______

The damage caused to the Orrery of Worlds from Darkseid's fall is under repair.":
http://imgur.com/cLBKD4X


More examples can be provided it need be. But yeah, Darkseid's fall from the 4th World into the 3rd dimension ripped space/time, and made him the epicenter of a multiversal singularity that was dragging existence down to 'hell' with him. Here is a visual representation of that:
http://i.imgur.com/LZd8sfIl.jpg

@ operator:
This scan from FC #5 also hints at the New Gods(and their weaponry) being more akin to metaphysical concepts/ideas, rather than purely physical 'things':
http://imgur.com/IOmBe1n

I remember Morrison in an interview saying that The New Gods (evil ones) were all equal to Galactus. But in terms of feats they didn't do anything close to Galactus. lol.

Orion kills him mother box plus Astro plus crazy durability and top tier strength/fighting skills

Originally posted by leonidas
it was a bad a$$ feat. i used that a couple times in ds threads, but for whatever reason, when some random god can do it, and we know ds>>>some random god, the implication never translates.... it's weird the way people view darkseid.

I get what you're saying but I can see why people would be skeptical. It implies that even a regular New God would end beings in the lower dimensions. Heck, even the New God version of hand ninjas (A Parademon) should be ridiculous. BUT we know how these things actually play out in practice.

Also, Grant Morrison's nature of writing doesn't help. By that I mean, the point he's trying to make isn't conveyed in a way that some are use to seeing or understanding. Usually powerful characters utilize their powers in more obvious ways. Especially for vs. threads where most of these discussions are brought up. Read a Final Crisis Darkseid vs. Galactus/Odin to get what I mean.

And to be clear, I'm not saying Grant Morrison should dumb his shit down for others (Even though I think it's too convoluted at times and confuses complicated with deep and meaningful), just trying to give some ideas as to why some there might be some miscommunication.

Originally posted by leonidas
it was a bad a$$ feat. i used that a couple times in ds threads, but for whatever reason, when some random god can do it, and we know ds>>>some random god, the implication never translates.... it's weird the way people view darkseid.
Duh, superman can't be that powerful, so all of new gods feats are invalid. In fact everyone in DC gets degraded because superman beats them. New Gods create universes, meh. Odin destroys galaxies. Greatest Skyfather EVAH. If Odin had a showing like Darkseid had in Return of Bruce Wayne where Omegas would've destroyed whole DCU, Thorbags would've nuked the interwebs.

Originally posted by deathlife
Darkseid is solid sky father (he's actually implied to be above that) but he rarely shows such power except when he recently destroyed a planet casually and owned the JL.

Really? In that event we say Darkseid damage the whole universe, and we had A monitor confirmed that Darkseid damaged 52 worlds, and Milestone Dharma have to repair some of Darkseid damage, as well as Robinson tie using Darkseid's godlike scope of his power.

Darkseid didn't really lose to anything but combined might of cosmic powered Orion, super powered gun, death itself, Superman's singing. Miracle Machine (which is just a super power mother box) warped reality, and undid the damage Darkseid has done.

Just because New Gods don't show their powers in battleboard fashion doesn't mean they weren't suppose to be that powerful. It's like the Endless/Lucifer mythos hierarchy, we don't really get to see huge displays of their power more then their statements. Through New Gods aren't really good for vs threads, but they are not suppose to be weak.

Originally posted by Iron-man
Really? In that event we say Darkseid damage the whole universe, and we had A monitor confirmed that Darkseid damaged 52 worlds, and Milestone Dharma have to repair some of Darkseid damage, as well as Robinson tie using Darkseid's godlike scope of his power.

Darkseid didn't really lose to anything but combined might of cosmic powered Orion, super powered gun, death itself, Superman's singing. Miracle Machine (which is just a super power mother box) warped reality, and undid the damage Darkseid has done.

Just because New Gods don't show their powers in battleboard fashion doesn't mean they weren't suppose to be that powerful. It's like the Endless/Lucifer mythos hierarchy, we don't really get to see huge displays of their power more then their statements. Through New Gods aren't really good for vs threads, but they are not suppose to be weak.

I understand that. My earlier statement was that they were supposed to be very powerful but we rarely see displays of said power (except for the earlier scan of them creating a universe for fun).

The Endless/Lucifer operate in a different story medium (they don't feature in action/adventure/superhero comics) and yes, the New Gods should display more of their power more often for us to gauge what level they operate at.

I do agree that the New Gods aren't weak but they also aren't good for discussions like this because their power level based on on-panel displays isn't so clear.

Originally posted by Galan007
C'mon, you know why, leo. It's because people will never accept that Superman=/>Darkseid>>>universal powers(ie. random New Gods.) People still haven't figured that the power of "this is a job for superman" >>>>>>> Omniversal powers?

Originally posted by Uriel005
People still haven't figured that the power of "this is a job for superman" >>>>>>> Omniversal powers?
Nope, silver surfer FTW. He destroys planets.

Originally posted by deathlife
The problem I have with the New Gods is their power depiction=/=writer intent.

Reading Final Crisis, we have what is the actual physical manifestation of New Gods on Earth (which has never actually happened before) but they didn't display anything close to their supposed level of power. Kalibak was eviscerated by Tawny the Tiger (which was funny as heck) and Darkseid really didn't do much (except use the Omega sanction on Batman who fatally wounded his body in the process). Darkseid is solid sky father (he's actually implied to be above that) but he rarely shows such power except when he recently destroyed a planet casually and owned the JL.

I have no doubt that the New Gods are meant to be extremely powerful but DC hasn't really shown said power properly IMO.

Darkseid didn't do much? He was destroying the multiverse on panel, just by existing. And when he struck Bruce with the omega sanction, he infused him with omega energies enough to tear apart the concept of time itself, which would have destroyed reality eventually.
Here's the scan saying that Bruce's presence was tearing apart time (due to the omega radiation which Darkseid infused him with):

http://i.imgur.com/ynlHj05.jpg?1

But anyway i agree with you that not all New Gods are meant to be super-powerful. After Morrison's Batman: RIP arc (which ended with Dr Hurt hinting that Batman would be captured by the New Gods despite the fact that he didn't have any supernatural abilities, which was exactly what happened afterwards), in Batman #683, we see him own the New Gods which were responsible for his abduction. So yeah.

Though Darkseid being a solid skyfather depends on your definition of "Skyfather".

Also, the endless have displayed enough feats to establish their power-level.

Hey operator, I think Superman stated that omega energies would destroy reality in Time Masters: Vanishing Point which Rip agreed. Can you post that scan?

Originally posted by operator616
Here's the scan saying that Bruce's presence was tearing apart time (due to the omega radiation which Darkseid infused him with):
http://i.imgur.com/ynlHj05.jpg?1

Same thing was stated again here:
http://imgur.com/YlDp9Va

There's also Superman's comment: "Darkseid turned you into a doomsday weapon and aimed you directly at the 21st century!":
http://imgur.com/EnrLtMr

The more precise(ie. universal) effects of Bruce's 'detonation' were explained here:
http://imgur.com/swivwmK

@abhi: Yeah, here's a scan from issue 6:

http://i.imgur.com/JHwCqPy.jpg

"infused with so much omega radiation that could have caused time to break up"

Originally posted by Galan007
Since we're on the topic, here is yet another of Darkseid's feats from FC that is often overlooked-- heck, I'm not sure that I've ever seen anyone mention it.

At the end of FC #4, Darkseid's lackeys ask him to deliver them a sign:
http://imgur.com/rpmJGyO

'seid responds with a thumbs down to existence:
http://imgur.com/KdQnwbR

In the very next issue, GLs note the following...

Kyle: "Spacetime around the earth just crumpled, like it was crushed in a fist. Weeks smashed into days."
Guardian: "The destructive emanations of Darkseid that have fastened themselves to the planet earth are power-classified: New Gods. They have word-weapons capable of enslaving souls. Machines that can rewrite the laws of being and bring whole civilizations to their knees.":
http://imgur.com/HvSdrUD

And by FC #7, Darkseid notes: "As ALL time becomes ONE time.":
http://imgur.com/8JFPNvs

So presumably the simple action of Darkseid delivering a thumbs down is what initiated the collapse of space and time on a multiversal level, and ultimately merged ALL timelines into a singular event. Insane.


I myself didn't pay attention to that.

Originally posted by Galan007


Same thing was stated again here:
http://imgur.com/YlDp9Va

There's also Superman's comment: "Darkseid turned you into a doomsday weapon and aimed you directly at the 21st century!":
http://imgur.com/EnrLtMr

The more precise(ie. universal) effects of Bruce's 'detonation' were explained here:
http://imgur.com/swivwmK

Yup. It's confirmed beyond all doubt.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No context and they weren't amped either. Just random new gods were creating fully formed universes. Darkseid and Highfather were so much above them that Mr. Miracle after defeating Black Racer who is an actual abstract when he realized his full new god potential was easily wrecked by Highfather. Originally posted by abhilegend
I was saying that these random power level feats are meaningless when character fights.

Originally posted by operator616
@abhi: Yeah, here's a scan from issue 6:

http://i.imgur.com/JHwCqPy.jpg

"infused with so much omega radiation that could have caused time to break up"



I myself didn't pay attention to that.

Is Operator the guy to go to for scans or something?