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Who wins?

smartass

TOAA

Originally posted by Jynocidus
TOAA

Stalemate.

Originally posted by Jynocidus
smartass

TOAA

Who cares?

Originally posted by Cogito
Who cares?

About you? No one. You should leave.

Before I kill you.

Originally posted by cdtm
About you? No one. You should leave.

Before I kill you. g_troll

Stalemate.

TOAA wins.

TOAA = Writer, as shown in the comics
The Presence = Created by the writer as stated in the comics

I wanna post scans here, but I'll have to refrain from doing that since I might end up starting a flame war.I'll just say the one who wins, is the one who didn't get his/its aspect usurped

BTW If anyone wants to see the scans I'm talking about, just PM

Originally posted by Cogito
Who cares?

Originally posted by Igniz
I wanna post scans here, but I'll have to refrain from doing that since I might end up starting a flame war.I'll just say the one who wins, is the one who didn't get his/its aspect usurped


Carnivore didn't just ususrp an aspect but the full power of the Presence. By controlling the 3 angels, he threatened to kill the female aspect, so he blackmailed the Presence into giving him his full power.

Originally posted by operator616
Carnivore didn't just ususrp an aspect but the full power of the Presence. By controlling the 3 angels, he threatened to kill the female aspect, so he blackmailed the Presence into giving him his full power.

Oh boy Now you've done it.I remember someone who actually argued about what Carnivore did.I think it was Galan and Zopzop who argued back and forth about this back in the days.Oh well

Originally posted by Igniz
Oh boy Now you've done it.I remember someone who actually argued about what Carnivore did.I think it was Galan and Zopzop who argued back and forth about this back in the days.Oh well I've talked about it before. What would you like to know?

Can't say I agree with operator that Carnivore had the 'full' power of the Presence(in the literal sense), given that he still lacked the the Schechina(the female aspect of the Presence)-- but whether he did or did not is ultimately inconsequential. In the end, Carnivore wanted to lose:
http://i.imgur.com/6oUwppi.jpg

So he is definitely not a proper gauge for the Presence itself.

Originally posted by Galan007

Can't say I agree with operator that Carnivore had the 'full' power of the Presence(in the literal sense), given that he still lacked the the Schechina(the female aspect of the Presence)

It was mentioned that the aspect was part of Carnivore, though:

http://i.imgur.com/ZdCj9uN.jpg?1

See, I don't think Carnivore had ever actually incorporated the Schechina into his being, because he literally wanted to give the heroes every possible opportunity to defeat him. This was confirmed on panel:
http://imgur.com/bN7ghay

One more scan which states that Carnivore wanted to lose:
http://imgur.com/cCiooHv

^ Yeah, i actually agree with you that Carnivore wanted to lose (that much isn't arguable), but i think it's possible that Carnivore was subconsciously allowing them to tap into Schenina's power, despite that it was part of himself.

Either way, we know that he had at least most of Presence's power, since here, he implied that the female aspect is basically insignificant to his power:

http://i.imgur.com/qinWRac.jpg?1

Of course, non of that changes the fact that he wanted to lose.

Definitely possible. Either way he didn't have the full power of the Presence when he was beaten... Technically, at least.

I can't stand when the companies go through all the trouble of gaining 'teh God-powa!' just to have them be defeated... By themselves... Subconsciously. ElOhEl.

Why does this thread have 19 comments so far?

The One Above All = Writer
The Presence = Created by the writer

What's there to discuss? Even saying that it's a stalemate is stupid.

Originally posted by Galan007
Definitely possible. Either way he didn't have the full power of the Presence when he was beaten... Technically, at least.

I can't stand when the companies go through all the trouble of gaining 'teh God-powa!' just to have them be defeated... By themselves... Subconsciously. ElOhEl.

....Still, it's always nice to have a significant event.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Why does this thread have 19 comments so far?

The One Above All = Writer
The Presence = Created by the writer

What's there to discuss? Even saying that it's a stalemate is stupid.

If you're created by the writer, to be the writer's medium, what's the difference?

Originally posted by Cogito

If you're created by the writer, to be the writer's medium?
Scans?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Scans?
The Presence was created by the writers (as was TOAA, if we're being truthful) to be omnipotent within the writers' creation. I'm not going to pull out scans because that's just a waste of time.

DC writers have been shown on panel acting as God just as there are scans of what appears to be Jack Kirby as Marvel's God. In the cosmology of both, all creation was originally created by the Presence/TOAA, thus making them mediums for the stories that followed.

Originally posted by Cogito

The Presence was created by the writers (as was TOAA, if we're being truthful) to be omnipotent within the writers' creation. I'm not going to pull out scans because that's just a waste of time.

So no scans stating/confirming that the "Presence" is a medium for real world writers.

TOAA (the character) is of course a drawing, imagined by writers.
But this character (TOAA) is portrayed as a literal fictional representation of humans from our real world (writers/artists)
playing the role of the ultimate "god" in a comic book. (sensibly, the Writers/Artists who make everything)

This character (TOAA) highlights info that relates to the real world,
it knows it's nothing more than a representative finite human mind, instead of the
Presence who thinks its a god, in heaven, eternal, with angels flying around and whatnot.

I know the Presence knows there's something greater than itself,
but it's clueless about what that is from what I know.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I know the Presence knows there's something greater than itself,
but it's clueless about what that is from what I know.
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/PresenceShaped_zpsf5561d4f.jpg

The Presence knows what those external forces are, as apparently does Lucifer.

^^

That's the scan I was talking about. The Presence knows there's something above him.

I don't see anyone in the scan saying/knowing what that is though.

.... "forces external?" ... Can mean anything.

Anyway imo, this is nothing like TOAA, or DC's true supreme beings (Morrison/Carlin avatar and such-types)

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^

That's the scan I was talking about. The Presence knows there's something above him.




TOAA, easily.

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^

That's the scan I was talking about. The Presence knows there's something above him.

I don't see anyone in the scan saying/knowing what that is though.

He pretty much flat out said he knew what those forces (the writers) were. With that scan, how could you possibly think he doesn't know?

Originally posted by Cogito

He pretty much flat out said he knew what those forces (the writers) were. With that scan, how could you possibly think he doesn't know?
My friend, where does he mention "writers" or real world issues?

We may postulate he's referring to the "writers"
but he could just as easily be referring to something else.
(he's not speaking in a 4th wall tone on top of being vague)

DC's Morrison/Carlin avatars were portrayed as counterparts to TOAA.

TOAA (artist) was on the phone with his other half (writer)
discussing Black Panther and Silver Surfer real world comic books.
The Artist told the FF he doesn't know what's gpnna happen next until the writer tells him. (like a real human)

That's what I'm talking about, that's a 4th wall "god-like" tone.
(ps. She-Hulk and Mxy (amongst others) are 4th wall masters but in a goofy depiction)

Originally posted by Cogito
If you're created by the writer, to be the writer's medium, what's the difference? You're a fictional character with limits, because you're a fictitious fictional character of not real nature.

Grant Morrison is fitter than Stan Lee.

He wins.