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hmmm....

Cassandra Nova, eventually.

Her forcefield's resistance against telepathy and telekinesis always struck me as one of those situations like Cap's shield's resistance against magnetism.

It's a completely binary notion but you have instances of it going either way.

Unless it's been revisited recently, should we really expect Sue Storm just entrapping Cassandra Nova in a forcefield bubble leaving Nova helpless though? I'd tend to think not. But happy to be disabused of such a notion.

Sue still needs to eat and sleep... eventually her concentration will wane. And Cassandra can exist as just an astral entity without her physical body... invisible, undetectable even to other powerful psychics...

And Sue's forcefields are iffy when it comes to blocking out telepathy in the first place...

So all-in-all, eventually Cassandra can just win via attrition.

This is a quick draw scenario. If Cassandra attacks Sue before she can raise a shield, she wins. If Sue raises a shield first, she wins.

Eh, Sue would need a host of better tp blocking feats to make me think she shuts out CN that decisively

Sue has faced Odin force Thor, with his Odin level telepathy...hmmmm

lol sue isn't ymir.

Originally posted by leonidas
lol sue isn't ymir.

Cassandra isn't Odin, so we are all good

right. or the cuckoos. we don't have anywhere near the disparity in overall power so we don't give either the benefit of the doubt. assuming the cuckoos can't tp a skyfather doesn't somehow mean sue doesn't need proof she can keep out cassie

if you think she can take cassie out first we're all happy to see it.

Basing it on 'overall power' just seems weird. You're just basing an argument on 'status' (Ymir has fought Odin( and without needing any feats, just go hmm yep he can take Skyfather level TP attacks.

Sue has faced telepaths before (so the type of energy). She has faced Skyfathersand above before (so the magnitude of energy). She has even reorientated countless photons AFTER they had been fired whilst under immense strain:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And another, although I might dump this in the Comic Discussions thread - an insane feat where she aligns and synchronises every single photon as Johnny produces it, whilst creating a construct strong enough to handle his Nova Flame, just after stopping a town-sized asteroid travelling at Mach 50

https://i.postimg.cc/5Y8qWg0Y/RCO019-1710962127.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/zH5wzhbd/RCO020-1710962127.jpg

It's like the Silver Age all over again.

And bending lasers after they've been fired:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
A weakened Susan is able to control light (and also serves as a reaction feat, as she bends light beams AFTER they're fired):

https://i.postimg.cc/qNpqJnpz/06.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/svY1CKdk/07.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/VdQ5hpT9/08.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/xqbctnsT/11.jpg

A small showing, but has such far-reaching battleboard ramifications.

Her reaction speeds are topnotch, plus she can attack and defend simultaneously (so Nova would get distracted by getting brain bubbled etc).

So....using your logic of status, Sue, who has been fast enough to outreact the Griever at the End of All Things:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_super/11139/111391579/9548600-1000019279.jpg

- Griever of course, being able to destroy universes etc -

Sue should/would defeat Nova, handily. Based on power levels and statuses.

the argument is entirely different. assuming a skyfather entity can defend against a tp attack is vastly different from assuming sue can defend against an uber psi. I don't think it's odd at all to assume certain abilities based on status. Odin. Thanos. Galactus. all have proven to be powerful psi's when at one point not too long ago they had no feats to support it. if we assume otherwise it becomes a no limits fallacy and some low level psi takes down Ymir. I mean the cuckoos wouldn't even need to combine to take out ymir, right? THAT's way more weird to me. without direct evidence to the contrary, some assumptions can be based in common sense.

as for the fight--i was legit curious. I'm not assuming it's impossible for sue to win it. just dubious.

Originally posted by leonidas
the argument is entirely different. assuming a skyfather entity can defend against a tp attack is vastly different from assuming sue can defend against an uber psi. I don't think it's odd at all to assume certain abilities based on status. Odin. Thanos. Galactus. all have proven to be powerful psi's when at one point not too long ago they had no feats to support it. if we assume otherwise it becomes a no limits fallacy and some low level psi takes down Ymir. I mean the cuckoos wouldn't even need to combine to take out ymir, right? THAT's way more weird to me. without direct evidence to the contrary, some assumptions can be based in common sense.

as for the fight--i was legit curious. I'm not assuming it's impossible for sue to win it. just dubious.

Is it not also, then, a no limits fallacy for Ymir?

Look at how powerful Odin is and all the different things he can do
Ymir fights him
Ymir therefore is....resistant to all the things Odin can do?

Replace Odin with the Griever at the end of all things, and Sue with Ymir. Especially when Sue actually has feats like taking Emma Frost out and shielding (different time, obv, but I don't want to appear disingenous) against planetary telepathy.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Sue has faced Odin force Thor, with his Odin level telepathy...hmmmm Was there any actual indication that Thor was telepathically attacking Sue?

If so, I missed it.

Originally posted by Smurph
Was there any actual indication that Thor was telepathically attacking Sue?

If so, I missed it.

This is a reference to this thread:
https://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t690507.html

Oh, gotcha

Anyways, Sue has also been affected by TP through her shields before. On the balance of things it seems like Cassandra's fight to lose.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Is it not also, then, a no limits fallacy for Ymir?

Look at how powerful Odin is and all the different things he can do
Ymir fights him
Ymir therefore is....resistant to all the things Odin can do?

Replace Odin with the Griever at the end of all things, and Sue with Ymir. Especially when Sue actually has feats like taking Emma Frost out and shielding (different time, obv, but I don't want to appear disingenous) against planetary telepathy.

not a no limits for ymir at all since i'm not asserting he can take anything more than Odin level tp. resistant to things Odin can do? probably most of them given their history. like surtur.

and your feats are fine. maybe they would be enough and sue wins it. I don't know who wins. but i'm WAY more likely to grant high end characters the benefit of the doubt than I am normal characters like sue. assuming ymir can't be taken out by a single cuckoo makes WAY more sense than claiming a single cuckoo can take him out. and that's the crux of it.

you feel you have enough proof to suggest sue wins

me, i'm still up in the air about it.

Originally posted by Smurph
Oh, gotcha

Anyways, Sue has also been affected by TP through her shields before. On the balance of things it seems like Cassandra's fight to lose.

and that's why i'm unsure.

When was Sue affected through her shields? Are you referring to the X-men /FF book?

Is that when Emma went through her shield?

no, it wasn't that series....

But in that series, Emma did affect Sue through her shields... and she wasn't directly even aiming at Sue... she just sent out a general psychic scream at the F4 and some of the X-men fighting on the lawn, and told them to act like adults... and this while Sue had a forcefield up around herself and her teammates.

Quick draw scenario. Do you guys agree?

Originally posted by ODG
Her forcefield's resistance against telepathy and telekinesis always struck me as one of those situations like Cap's shield's resistance against magnetism.

It's a completely binary notion but you have instances of it going either way.

Unless it's been revisited recently, should we really expect Sue Storm just entrapping Cassandra Nova in a forcefield bubble leaving Nova helpless though? I'd tend to think not. But happy to be disabused of such a notion.

Sue dominates due to immunity. Jean without the Phoenix Force was helpless against Sue.

Originally posted by h1a8
Quick draw scenario. Do you guys agree?

Yes

Originally posted by Stoic
Sue dominates due to immunity. Jean without the Phoenix Force was helpless against Sue.
She just got up from a YEARS long coma dude. In the rematch, it was a draw.

Also didn't she not have TP there?

Originally posted by Smurph
Also didn't she not have TP there?
No TP. Not when she just came out the coma, and not during the rematch vs Hound Sue.

Cassandra should win, but IW often performs pis feats.