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If Jesus or an Angel of the Lord showed up and performed a miracle right in front of you. Say you had a deadly ill friend or family member. And you took him to see your loved on and healed him, would you believe in the Power of God and if you didn't what would you call what you just witnessed.

Hypothetically yes, but what if it was just an advanced alien playing a trick on me?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Hypothetically yes, but what if it was just an advanced alien playing a trick on me?

Well to mortals any advanced being like that would be considered a god to us right?

No. I would realize that it's just another Ghost Of Human Kindness like conman who wants to molest me

I don't think ghosts have actual powers though.

Originally posted by Supra
I don't think ghosts have actual powers though.

I don't believe in ghosts.

Well I sure as hell wouldn't manufacture an explanation just to satisfy my curiosity. The only way I would believe in God is if its existence was corroborated by scientific evidence

Originally posted by Firefly218
Well I sure as hell wouldn't manufacture an explanation just to satisfy my curiosity. The only way I would believe in God is if its existence was corroborated by scientific evidence

Originally posted by Firefly218
Well I sure as hell wouldn't manufacture an explanation just to satisfy my curiosity. The only way I would believe in God is if its existence was corroborated by scientific evidence

Can everything be explained by science though. Something not even scientists can explain. What is that called?

A mystery. Science doesnt' claim to have all the answers, as opposed to the competition. There's a very real likelihood that some things will forever remain unexplained or unexplored, because of the relative nature of knowledge.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
A mystery. Science doesnt' claim to have all the answers, as opposed to the competition. There's a very real likelihood that some things will forever remain unexplained or unexplored, because of the relative nature of knowledge.

Therefore there will always be religion. People don't like unanswered questions.

I suppose. I mean, if a book ends without a complete conclusion, my mind starts spinning and I often speculate. But I don't conclusively make decisions on how things should be; that's premature.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I suppose. I mean, if a book ends without a complete conclusion, my mind starts spinning and I often speculate. But I don't conclusively make decisions on how things should be; that's premature.

Unless you can make money with your speculations, and write a book. Then make everyone do according to the book. You get the picture.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Therefore there will always be religion. People don't like unanswered questions.

I do man, unanswered questions give us a yearning for imagination and to want to learn more and seek knowledge, I think unanswered questions are the basis for science right?

They're also the basis for ersatz answers that fall short of reality, unfortunately.

It's how you do things that counts though and science can only be right as long as the morals are applied to it. We are actually witnessing the breakdown of science due to a lack of concern for it much like what happened to homosexuality in the early years.

Originally posted by Wonder Man
It's how you do things that counts though and science can only be right as long as the morals are applied to it. We are actually witnessing the breakdown of science due to a lack of concern for it much like what happened to homosexuality in the early years.

Where do you get this? There is no break down in science. If anything, this is a golden age of science.

Originally posted by Wonder Man
It's how you do things that counts though and science can only be right as long as the morals are applied to it. We are actually witnessing the breakdown of science due to a lack of concern for it much like what happened to homosexuality in the early years.



Science is right regardless of morality. Science is fact. While morality is awesome, it is human made. Morality is not a natural law of the universe.

Originally posted by Firefly218
Science is fact.
This made me chuckle.

Science gives us the closest thing we can have to objective fact, and that's mainly because everything must follow strict guidelines so that others can reaffirm or disprove said facts with further observations and experiments. The opposition, religion, and I use opposition chiefly because religious people have become self-appointed naysayers of science despite it having a tangible and beneficial effect on their daily lives, espouses the idea that fact is found in holy books. These books are in turn translated, shared, and consolidated by other people whose methods are not available for review and must be simply "accepted". It doesn't take rocket science to see the evident flaw in that methology.

Related fun fact: I revisited the Star Trek TNG episode "Who Watches the Watchers?" (Season three, it is on Netflix) and it's rather relevant to the discussion.

Also, is there some kind of Christian code that you have to talk about homosexuality as if it actually hurts people whenever you can? It's a little tiresome. If you're going to champion doctrine, at least pick the good stuff. Sell all your possessions and work charity while stressing love and acceptance to those in dire need. Or was that part of the Bible figurative instead of literal?

Religion is not in opposition of science. Science answers the question "How?" whereas religion answers "Why?" That said, no one questions the unfalsifiability of religion because beliefs don't have to adhere to the standard of falsifiability.

Originally posted by Astner
Religion is not in opposition of science. Science answers the question "How?" whereas religion answers "Why?" That said, no one questions the unfalsifiability of religion because beliefs don't have to adhere to the standard of falsifiability.

I totally agree with you, but it seems a lot of Christians don't.

Originally posted by Astner
Religion is not in opposition of Science.

A lot of times it is. Religious fanatics still believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old, despite scientific evidence that proves otherwise.

Originally posted by Firefly218
A lot of times it is. Religious fanatics still believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old, despite scientific evidence that proves otherwise.

Ya, religious fanatics are the problem.

Originally posted by Astner
Religion is not in opposition of science. Science answers the question "How?" whereas religion answers "Why?" That said, no one questions the unfalsifiability of religion because beliefs don't have to adhere to the standard of falsifiability.

No, religon says "this is the truth, because I say it is. Don't question me" whereas science says "I think this is the tuth but I could be mistaken. Please question me to make sure I hold up to standards".

Removing religious beliefs which proclaim truth from the standard used to measure objectivity is sophistry, nothing more. If a claim is made, the onus is on those making it to prove up. Religion can't prove up. Therefore, no one has any reason to take these claims as fact by any definition of the word. This especially becomes a problem when religious insist on dictating the behaviors of others, even against their will.

Stupidity and over-confidence are a crappy combination.

People saying religion is immune from the burden of proof boggle my mind. Kind of like people attempting to make free will independent of pre-existing caused beings. Like, good luck with that, bro.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
People saying religion is immune from the burden of proof boggle my mind. Kind of like people attempting to make free will independent of pre-existing caused beings. Like, good luck with that, bro.

And why they need to prove something that is supposed to be based on faith, is beyond me.

Just because someone or something has supernatural powers and can perform 'miracles' doesn't make them a God or worthy of worship. I would recognise their power and maybe try to become super best friends with them but thats about it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Just because someone or something has supernatural powers and can perform 'miracles' doesn't make them a God or worthy of worship. I would recognise their power and maybe try to become super best friends with them but thats about it.

Like Superman?

Superman can be a huge ass, so you'd better be his friend. Or worship. Or spit-shine his pecs, whatever he demands.

Originally posted by Supra
He never wanted people to worship, him he just wanted to be a common day reporter and when he needed to save the world

So people met Superman everyday of the week.

But how long could he really keep that up? 50 years? 100 years? a thousand years? Eventually, he will be discovered, then it will just be like I described.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But how long could he really keep that up? 50 years? 100 years? a thousand years? Eventually, he will be discovered, then it will just be like I described.

As "smart" as we area compared to how smart he is, yes, pretty much forever.

Jesus flat out told people he was the Son of God and performed miracles and they still didn't believe.

Originally posted by Supra

Jesus flat out told people he was the Son of God and performed miracles and they still didn't believe.

How do you know Jesus performed miracles. Were you there?

Originally posted by Supra
As "smart" as we area compared to how smart he is, yes, pretty much forever.

Jesus flat out told people he was the Son of God and performed miracles and they still didn't believe.

Jesus was a great teacher. He was not superman or the son of god. The miracles were added a long after his death.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Jesus was a great teacher. He was not superman or the son of god. The miracles were added a long after his death.

Im just getting back to your reference of would people find out who he really was.. I don't think so.

He has many options, leave the planet, go to the fortress of solitude, go back to Kansas, change jobs. Or just be Superman.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Jesus was a great teacher. He was not superman or the son of god. The miracles were added a long after his death.

Considering no sources other than the much-later compiled Bible relate his miracles, this seems to be the case.

Originally posted by Supra
If Jesus or an Angel of the Lord showed up and performed a miracle right in front of you. Say you had a deadly ill friend or family member. And you took him to see your loved on and healed him, would you believe in the Power of God and if you didn't what would you call what you just witnessed.


I had a similar discussion with both inimalist (Oliver North) and Digi.


Essentially, the problem still remains as Shakyamunison put it: how is that person to know that the being performing that miracle is of Divine (capital D, yo) origin or is that alien just super advanced? My response is, essentially, that we have eternal souls that are supernatural and immutable and God can communicate to us through our souls. God will tell us if something is Divine.

Originally posted by Firefly218


Science is right regardless of morality. Science is fact. While morality is awesome, it is human made. Morality is not a natural law of the universe.

I think you're putting science on a pedestal that it cannot live up to. You're elevating science into this omniscient entity ...

It's as if you're...



Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Science gives us the closest thing we can have to objective fact...


hmm

Yeah, that's pretty good.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Just because someone or something has supernatural powers and can perform 'miracles' doesn't make them a God or worthy of worship. I would recognise their power and maybe try to become super best friends with them but thats about it.

That's essentially what many Christian people teach: become super best friends with God.

I don't make friends with people on my knees.






























































































Oh, who am I kidding!

But yeah, I don't worship my friends and do whatever they tell me to.

Originally posted by Nephthys
...I don't worship my friends and do whatever they tell me to.


If you had seemingly supernatural powers, knowledge and wisdom beyond my ability to comprehend, and promoted a system of genuine benevolence, I'd definitely do whatever you told me and I would probably worship you...sort of. I wouldn't pray to you: I'd just talk to you.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Jesus was a great teacher. He was not superman or the son of god. The miracles were added a long after his death.

However Superman was written by two Jewish men, and the story of superman closely follows Christ's

Originally posted by Supra
However Superman was written by two Jewish men, and the story of superman closely follows Christ's

I can see that. The idea of a savor is a very old one, but it is only an idea.

Why do we need a savor? I know the answer; because Adam sinned when he ate from the tree of knowledge. However, the story of Adam and Eve is not real. It is a story, not a history.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I can see that. The idea of a savor is a very old one, but it is only an idea.

Why do we need a savor? I know the answer; because Adam sinned when he ate from the tree of knowledge. However, the story of Adam and Eve is not real. It is a story, not a history.

I still don't know enough about Buddhism to debate with you on self preservation vs Godly forgiveness.

dadudeman, what's more objective? Scientific method, with peer review, or Bible study?

Originally posted by Supra
I still don't know enough about Buddhism to debate with you on self preservation vs Godly forgiveness.

I'm not talking about Buddhism. I'm talking about Christianity.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't make friends with people on my knees.






























































































Oh, who am I kidding!

But yeah, I don't worship my friends and do whatever they tell me to.

I think this is an oral sex joke...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I'm not talking about Buddhism. I'm talking about Christianity.

Oh ok.

Originally posted by Supra
Oh ok.

Let me guess; you don't know enough about Christianity to be able to comment on what I said above. No problem.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Let me guess; you don't know enough about Christianity to be able to comment on what I said above. No problem. Remember: just assume he's illiterate.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Remember: just assume he's illiterate.

Roger that...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Let me guess; you don't know enough about Christianity to be able to comment on what I said above. No problem.

I just woke up man Not ready to talk about it

Originally posted by Supra
I just woke up man Not ready to talk about it

No problem.