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I must say i like how original your lists are, tupac and biggie not beingnumber one for instance. Im gonna do 5 in the west/east/other lists and 15 in everywhere, anytime list.

East -
1.Nas
2.Big Pun
3.Biggie
4.Mobb Deep
5.Wu tang

West-
1. Ice Cube
2.Tupac
3.Ice T
4.Snoop Dogg
5.Too Short

Other -
1. eminem
2. Scarface
3. Nelly
4.Outkast
5.Ludacris

Everywhere, Anytime -
1. Eminem
2.Ice Cube
3. The Wu
4.Scarface
5.Tupac
6.Nelly
7.Mobb Deep
8.Biggie
9.Big Pun
10.Nas
11.Luda
12.Ice T
13.Outkast
14.Snoop Dogg
15. Ice t

Idk if I can make a top 25 list at the moment.

1. Eminem
2. Nas
3. Jay-Z
4. Big L
5. Andre 3000

That is my top 5, in order of greatness (imo).

The rest are in no particular order:

1. Elzhi
2. Diabolic
3. Treach
4. Lupe Fiasco
5. Mos Def
6. Royce da 5'9"
7. Immortal Technique
8. KRS-One
9. Big Daddy Kane
10. Big Pun

Originally posted by thanos-prime
I must say i like how original your lists are, tupac and biggie not beingnumber one for instance.

Tupac and Biggie are so overrated that it's not even funny, really. Infinite, Reasonable Doubt, and Illmatic are much better than anything they ever made.

Yeah, but, Big & Tupac made a big impact on the rap game in the 90's and left a huge mark so much respect to them an may god bless their souls.

I'm a fan of both, and I know they are both very important to the genre, but there are many rappers far more skilled than them.

Big was more skilled than pac IMO. True Pac had immense charisma and was throwing out qaulity albums all of the time.

But they were still superb artists considering how important they were and have been. Theres no doubt there are a lot of rappers more skilled.
Take Mos Def or Big L for example both are leagues ahead of both Pac & Big ( IMO ) but they havent even came close to leaving the sort of impact Pac & Big made n left behind. And to be fairly honest, no one ever has.
Thats why they do deserve to be one of the greats for the sheer impact they made, also they both excelled at their own skills, Pac had untouchable charisma and put albums out that were good and consistent almost every day(Exaggeration of course) and Big was overall a half decent rapper but had an amazing flow.

I mean, I can sit and listen to their albums...I still appreciate their passion for music even today. I'd love the "hip-hop/rap" game to get back on its feet, I dont personally listen to the underground stuff, but the underground is thriving with raw talent that are all unsigned...maybe its not what this generation are looking for anymore its all about the materialistic things and party tunes(which I dont mind when Im at a party or some shit, but I get super annoyed when nicki minaj and lil wayne are putting out pop party tunes, trying to rap and sing and every mother ****er calls them the greatest ever)

I just wish I could have experienced the 90's first hand...too bad im stuck with people growing up who have absolute shit taste in music and artists, but then again...according to them...i listen to "a bunch of noise" or my personal favourite "you should listen to lil wayne or wiz khalifa, thats good music"

Damn.

I missed out a couple dudes who deserve to be in those lists that i forgotten about, Black Thought, Big Pun, and Mc Ren. There are plenty others too, but then I'd have to make a top 50, which I do not have the time for.(even if i did i woulf refuse to do it...to many variables to consider)

Oh and AZ is up there in the top 20, just dont know where now.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Big was more skilled than pac IMO. True Pac had immense charisma and was throwing out qaulity albums all of the time.

But they were still superb artists considering how important they were and have been. Theres no doubt there are a lot of rappers more skilled.
Take Mos Def or Big L for example both are leagues ahead of both Pac & Big ( IMO ) but they havent even came close to leaving the sort of impact Pac & Big made n left behind. And to be fairly honest, no one ever has.
Thats why they do deserve to be one of the greats for the sheer impact they made, also they both excelled at their own skills, Pac had untouchable charisma and put albums out that were good and consistent almost every day(Exaggeration of course) and Big was overall a half decent rapper but had an amazing flow.

I mean, I can sit and listen to their albums...I still appreciate their passion for music even today. I'd love the "hip-hop/rap" game to get back on its feet, I dont personally listen to the underground stuff, but the underground is thriving with raw talent that are all unsigned...maybe its not what this generation are looking for anymore its all about the materialistic things and party tunes(which I dont mind when Im at a party or some shit, but I get super annoyed when nicki minaj and lil wayne are putting out pop party tunes, trying to rap and sing and every mother ****er calls them the greatest ever)

I just wish I could have experienced the 90's first hand...too bad im stuck with people growing up who have absolute shit taste in music and artists, but then again...according to them...i listen to "a bunch of noise" or my personal favourite "you should listen to lil wayne or wiz khalifa, thats good music"

Damn.

Everyone has their own idea of what makes a rapper great. Some base it on the impact they had on the world, but for me, I just look at pure skill, and subject matter to a much lesser extent. Either way is fine, just saying.

In my opinion, no rapper exceeds Eminem when it comes to technical skill. His flow, creativity, use of multi-syllabic rhymes, internal rhyming, and ability to make just about any thing rhyme is second to none.

"I'm going for broke, gambling and playing for keeps
Everyday in the streets, scrambling and paying for cheap
Praying for sleep, dreaming with a watering mouth
Wishing for a better life for my daughter and spouse
In this slaughtering house, caught up in bouts with the root of all evil
I've seen it turn beautiful people crude and deceitful"

I could listen to his Infinite album all day.

I look at skill too, no doubt Pac and Biggie had the skill to be where they are on that list...they also made a bigger impact on the world than any other rapper to date. Even after 16-17 years...there still both relevant? I got All Eyez On Me, Mr Against The World, Ready To Die & Born Again on my phone an computer, there long gone and people still talk about them everyday. Even though they dont make top 10, lotta respect for them.

And yeah, Infinite is a masterpiece...it baffles me how it is still relatively unknown to the mainstream public.
Its without a doubt a top 5 album for me. Em is my favourite rapper, but...he comes second to only Nas, when I say second...of it were a race...it'd be a photo finish & Em would be Inches behind Nas.

in no particular order my list would be as followed

nas
eminem
jay-z
lauryn hill
tupac
big pun
rakim
gza
pharoah monch
rass kass
common
sticky fingaz
phonte
blu
big l
redman
beanie siegel
scarface
chino xl
black thought
mos def
jadakiss
royce da 5'9
kane
mobb deep

Where the Frack is Deltron? i guess you bizznitches don't know nuthin bout him huh? lmao

M&M's
Deltron
Gza
two packs
Nas


Is there anyone else?

I mean outkast was cool until they did their third album, then it all went to hell

LOL at someone saying Biggie's overrated. Bollocks is he overrated.

Originally posted by Insomniatric
Idk if I can make a top 25 list at the moment.

1. Eminem
2. Nas
3. Jay-Z
4. Big L
5. Andre 3000

That is my top 5, in order of greatness (imo).

The rest are in no particular order:

1. Elzhi
2. Diabolic
3. Treach
4. Lupe Fiasco
5. Mos Def
6. Royce da 5'9"
7. Immortal Technique
8. KRS-One
9. Big Daddy Kane
10. Big Pun

Overall I like your list, but I gotta put Pac in the top 5. I'd probably place Pac where you had Jay-Z.

Why separate via region? The best MCs are the best MCs, regardless of where they're from, the coast they call home shouldn't count for shit.

My all time 10:

1. MF Doom
2. GZA
3. Pharoahe Monch
4. Jeru The Damaja
5. Tragedy Khadafi
6. Posdnous
7. Sadistik
8. Ice Cube
9. Tame One
10. Breeze Brewin'

Lol, just clocked how east coast-centric my list is...oh well.

Honorable mentions to Meth, El-P, Kool Keith, Roc Marciano, Masta Ace, Biggie, Ras Kass, Tonedeff, and Action Bronson.

I'm not much into rap music, so my list is gonna be pretty much limited to the ones I've listened to.

My personal top 10:

1. Eminem
2. Ice Cube
3. Big L
4. Nas
5. Snoop Dogg
6. MF Doom
7. Outkast
8. Common
9. Immortal Technique
10. Aesop Rock

No love for Aesop Rock ITT?

Originally posted by Tzeentch
No love for Aesop Rock ITT?
Yeah. One of the most underrated in the scene.

3a9KQxsFCmI


There's an interesting study by Matt Daniels about the extent of vocabulary of hip hop artists.

http://rappers.mdaniels.com.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/


I haven't heard of any of GZA's songs yet, but I'm sure they're sick as well.

2Pac below ICP? Damn that's embarrassing.

Lol, DMX don't need your fancy words, just barking.

Edit: Where the hell is Killer Mike on that list?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
2Pac below ICP? Damn that's embarrassing. As is the "lyrical wordsmith", lol.

I don't consider myself well-listened enough to actually create a decent top 10 list, but here are my ten favorites:

1. Killer Mike
2. DMX
3. El-P
4. Despot
5. Himanshu Suri ("Heems"
6. Method Man
7. Waka Flocka Flame
8. Lil Dicky
9. Duckwrth
10. Aesop Rock

wheres Del ?

http://lab.musixmatch.com/largest_vocabulary/

This seems to have some very different results from the other study. For instance, Tupac and Eminem are considered much higher, and if this one is accurate, Eminem would actually have a wider vocabulary than Aesop Rock, which I don't believe for a second.

Rakim left off of the OP's list . Stopped there .

Originally posted by Insomniatric
Tupac and Biggie are so overrated that it's not even funny, really. Infinite, Reasonable Doubt, and Illmatic are much better than anything they ever made.

Not a Tupac fan eh? He's my personal favorite but I can see where you drew your conclusion. Nas is definitely more clever lyrically, but I don't think there is another rapper that can hang with the raw emotion that Tupac put in his songs. I also liked the storytelling in his songs. Trapped, Brenda's Got a Baby, and Wonder why They Call you B**** come to mind.

I do not have nearly the required knowledge to list the 25 greatest of all time rappers, so I'll just list my ten favorite, in no particular order, with the caveat that the first listed is my favorite.

1. Tech N9ne
2. Eminem
3. Hopsin
4. Biggie
5. Ice Cube
6. Immortal Technique
7. Bone Thugs-n-Harmony
8. Lupe Fiasco
9. NWA
10. Kool Keith

This goat killz it...

VOTS0LCTZH4

Originally posted by NemeBro
I do not have nearly the required knowledge to list the 25 greatest of all time rappers, so I'll just list my ten favorite, in no particular order, with the caveat that the first listed is my favorite.

1. Tech N9ne
2. Eminem
3. Hopsin
4. Biggie
5. Ice Cube
6. Immortal Technique
7. Bone Thugs-n-Harmony
8. Lupe Fiasco
9. NWA
10. Kool Keith

Whew lad, list has changed as I've gotten more hot knowledge.

1. Tech N9ne
2. Eminem
3. Biggie
4. Nas
5. Joyner Lucas
6. Kendrick Lamar
7. Big Pun
8. Lupe Fiasco
9. Bone Thugs-n-Harmony
10. Hopsin (just barely, serious love/hate relationship with this ****er)

Originally posted by NemeBro
Whew lad, list has changed as I've gotten more hot knowledge.

1. Tech N9ne
2. Eminem
3. Biggie
4. Nas
5. Joyner Lucas
6. Kendrick Lamar
7. Big Pun
8. Lupe Fiasco
9. Bone Thugs-n-Harmony
10. Hopsin (just barely, serious love/hate relationship with this ****er) You dropped off Tech? You don't have Lowkey? And here I use to like you Neme.

Though on my top ten cause 25 is away too many

1. Lowkey
2. Nas
3. Tupac
4. Emeniem
5. Royce Da 5'9
6. Joell Ortiz
7. Dumbfoundead
9. Hopsin
10. Pumpkinhead

Originally posted by Kento
You dropped off Tech? You don't have Lowkey? And here I use to like you Neme.

Though on my top ten cause 25 is away too many

1. Lowkey
2. Nas
3. Tupac
4. Emeniem
5. Royce Da 5'9
6. Joell Ortiz
7. Dumbfoundead
9. Hopsin
10. Pumpkinhead Actually, to be honest I probably would swap Bone Thugs for Immortal Technique come to think of it. He has some problems and I don't think quite as highly of him as I used to, but I still really like him.

Got anything on this literally who nigga Lowkey? A song you'd say represents his style well?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Actually, to be honest I probably would swap Bone Thugs for Immortal Technique come to think of it. He has some problems and I don't think quite as highly of him as I used to, but I still really like him.

Got anything on this literally who nigga Lowkey? A song you'd say represents his style well? I'm surprised that if you know who Immortal Technique is you don't know Lowkey, I found out about Lowkey because of Voice of the Voiceless where they rapped together.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToZUIdbgqjE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2rLdoLyitw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3_2hJfhwro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmBnvajSfWU

How are you guys rating your top 5?

Is it just how popular they were?
Or lyrical skill, flow, content, delivery, etc?
Combo of both?

Originally posted by Inhuman
How are you guys rating your top 5?

Is it just how popular they were?
Or lyrical skill, flow, content, delivery, etc?
Combo of both? Mainly content, lyrical skill, and if they have done anything that has meaning to me.

Originally posted by Inhuman
How are you guys rating your top 5?

Is it just how popular they were?
Or lyrical skill, flow, content, delivery, etc?
Combo of both? Me personally no, popularity means almost nothing. If I cared about popularity a relative unknown (though he's been getting more buzz recently) like Joyner Lucas wouldn't come anywhere near my list.

Big Pun also likely wouldn't make my list, because for some reason people seem to have forgotten he is an A-tier rapper, one of the all time greats up there with Pac and Biggie, since his death.

Anyway, it's based purely on how well they appeal to me. As for what appeals to me personally, I'm something of a backpacking fuccboi who really likes technical rappers, technical skill being length and density of rhymes, voice, flow, etc. Speed also plays a factor, though a rapper can be fast without being technical. Tech N9ne is the best example of this IMO, with highly advanced rhyme schemes, appealing and varied cadences, and probably the best and most versatile flow of any rapper I've ever heard. Eminem and Big Pun are also highly technical rappers, and the others on my list aren't too far from them. Here's a song from Big Pun (featuring Fat Joe) called Twinz that exemplifies some of what I'm talking about:

-7fBmlX80fA

In particular, the couplet at the end of Big Pun's first verse is amazing.

"Dead in the middle of Little Italy little did we know
that we riddled some middleman who didn't do diddily"

This is a hot as **** couplet in terms of the rhyming, and his almost breathless flow and delivery really appeal to me.

I do value lyricism though, which is to say, emotional depth and ability to paint a vivid picture and say something with meaning. Every rapper on my list can do this, but it's largely the reason Joyner Lucas is on the list.

AjKbw1Cqpt0

jO_v2sXm-f4

These are two of the most heartbreaking and intense songs I've ever heard, though they aren't particularly technical compared to Twinz for example. Which isn't to say that Joyner can't be technical either. His slaughtering of Future's Mask Off shows this:

GYIHrd7e-n0

Lucas' flow, rhyme schemes, and delivery are on point in this song, and he spits one of the fastest verses of his career during it.

Content does play a role, yeah. Part of why Tech N9ne is my favorite rapper is his darker (relative to most mainstream rap anyway) content. I'm also something of a horrorcore fan, but far too much horrorcore focuses on style over substance, which is to say they get the feel and look right, but they don't have the technical or lyrical chops to support it most of the time. Rappers that can, such as Tech N9ne (who admittedly isn't super horrorcore, especially these days), Eminem, Bone Thug, or Brotha Lynch Hung (who didn't make my list but I am a fan), as such appeal to me greatly.

You also forget an important aspect of hip hop: beats! Boring, annoying bad, or unfitting beats can ruin songs. It's not the most important thing to me, but it does matter.

Originally posted by Kento
I'm surprised that if you know who Immortal Technique is you don't know Lowkey, I found out about Lowkey because of Voice of the Voiceless where they rapped together.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToZUIdbgqjE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2rLdoLyitw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3_2hJfhwro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmBnvajSfWU Will check these out later and tell you how I felt about them my man.

I can only give my top 5 as the rest are interchangeable

1)Rakim
2)Biggie
3)Pac
4)Em(favorite)
5)Nas

Originally posted by NemeBro
Will check these out later and tell you how I felt about them my man.

Originally posted by Kento
You dropped off Tech? You don't have Lowkey? And here I use to like you Neme.

Though on my top ten cause 25 is away too many

1. Lowkey
2. Nas
3. Tupac
4. Emeniem
5. Royce Da 5'9
6. Joell Ortiz
7. Dumbfoundead
9. Hopsin
10. Pumpkinhead

Dumbfoundead and PH...do u watch battle rap?

Originally posted by dynamix
Dumbfoundead and PH...do u watch battle rap? Not much, I mostly found out about both of them because of guest appearances with other people. And went from there.

These lists are an abomination!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
These lists are an abomination!

I see no "Slick Rick" at all.

ea-ezolZq5k

For me 2pac/Tupac/Makaveli will always be #1 though.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Whew lad, list has changed as I've gotten more hot knowledge.

1. Tech N9ne
2. Eminem
3. Biggie
4. Nas
5. Joyner Lucas
6. Kendrick Lamar
7. Big Pun
8. Lupe Fiasco
9. Bone Thugs-n-Harmony
10. Hopsin (just barely, serious love/hate relationship with this ****er) Phuck this gay boy list. Everything below top two is not in any particular order.

1. Tech N9ne
2. Eminem
3. Biggie
4. Nas
5. Jay Z
6. Big L
7. Kendrick Lamar
8. Big Pun
9. Joyner Lucas
10. Andre 3000

Originally posted by NemeBro
Me personally no, popularity means almost nothing. If I cared about popularity a relative unknown (though he's been getting more buzz recently) like Joyner Lucas wouldn't come anywhere near my list.

Big Pun also likely wouldn't make my list, because for some reason people seem to have forgotten he is an A-tier rapper, one of the all time greats up there with Pac and Biggie, since his death.

Anyway, it's based purely on how well they appeal to me. As for what appeals to me personally, I'm something of a backpacking fuccboi who really likes technical rappers, technical skill being length and density of rhymes, voice, flow, etc. Speed also plays a factor, though a rapper can be fast without being technical. Tech N9ne is the best example of this IMO, with highly advanced rhyme schemes, appealing and varied cadences, and probably the best and most versatile flow of any rapper I've ever heard. Eminem and Big Pun are also highly technical rappers, and the others on my list aren't too far from them. Here's a song from Big Pun (featuring Fat Joe) called Twinz that exemplifies some of what I'm talking about:

-7fBmlX80fA

In particular, the couplet at the end of Big Pun's first verse is amazing.

"Dead in the middle of Little Italy little did we know
that we riddled some middleman who didn't do diddily"

This is a hot as **** couplet in terms of the rhyming, and his almost breathless flow and delivery really appeal to me.

I do value lyricism though, which is to say, emotional depth and ability to paint a vivid picture and say something with meaning. Every rapper on my list can do this, but it's largely the reason Joyner Lucas is on the list.

AjKbw1Cqpt0

jO_v2sXm-f4

These are two of the most heartbreaking and intense songs I've ever heard, though they aren't particularly technical compared to Twinz for example. Which isn't to say that Joyner can't be technical either. His slaughtering of Future's Mask Off shows this:

GYIHrd7e-n0

Lucas' flow, rhyme schemes, and delivery are on point in this song, and he spits one of the fastest verses of his career during it.

Content does play a role, yeah. Part of why Tech N9ne is my favorite rapper is his darker (relative to most mainstream rap anyway) content. I'm also something of a horrorcore fan, but far too much horrorcore focuses on style over substance, which is to say they get the feel and look right, but they don't have the technical or lyrical chops to support it most of the time. Rappers that can, such as Tech N9ne (who admittedly isn't super horrorcore, especially these days), Eminem, Bone Thug, or Brotha Lynch Hung (who didn't make my list but I am a fan), as such appeal to me greatly.

You also forget an important aspect of hip hop: beats! Boring, annoying bad, or unfitting beats can ruin songs. It's not the most important thing to me, but it does matter. all garbage

would you prefer some lil yachty or future

Goat. Right here

8AFsxLU0EfY

no love for eazy e?
fJuapp9SORA

Where's X at?

Originally posted by Panzerlock
no love for eazy e?
fJuapp9SORA

always felt that was one of the most underrated diss songs. used to bump that EVERYDAY!

Eazy E can't be a contender for the GOAT because he didn't write his own lyrics tbh, but yeah Real Muthaphuckkin G's is a classic diss track.

Rakim