Strength Ranking:DCNU

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn

Rank the mighty of the DCNU in terms of strength.

(I left the people off my list that I've had little or no exposure to.)

1. Wonder Woman (uncuffed)
-- beat the goddess Artemis with ease
-- impressed the god Apollo

2. Superman (suncharged/sundipped)
-- beat the god Apollo

3. Apollo
-- swatted Superman away like a pest
(until accidentally supercharging Clark with concentrated sunlight)
-- beat cuffed Wonder Woman

4. Martian Manhunter
-- judging from JL8, held his own against the Justice League single-handedly

5. Wonder Woman (cuffed)
-- outmatched by the god Apollo
-- outmatched by the goddess Artemis
-- overpowers Faora
-- holds own with Zod
-- overpowers Supergirl

6. Supergirl (Matt Idelsen)

-- displays power greater than Superman had at the age she is from the moment she arrives on Earth
-- held as most powerful by WorldKillers DESPITE their knowing Superman is also on Earth
-- apparently possesses the innate ability to create self-empowering/repowering light energy

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Issue #2 pages were shown, and it includes the first time Supergirl meets her cousin, Superman.
"There's a certain distrust," Asrar said with a laugh as a slide was shown where Supergirl punches Superman.

"She's actually stronger than Kal-El," Idelson said.
Johnson said, "She came out of that pod ready to go, as people noticed," he said.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.newsarama.com/8536-nycc-2011-dc-all-access-superman-panel.html

7. Superman
-- has his arm broken casually by Zod, though Zod does not do the same against Wonder Woman

8. Black Adam
-- beaten by Ultraman who is, presumably, the rough equal of Superman

9. Supergirl (Eddie Berganza)

10. Aquaman

LordofBrooklyn

Your rankings are interesting.

ares834

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
1. Wonder Woman (uncuffed)
-- beat the goddess Artemis with ease
-- impressed the god Apollo

2. Superman (suncharged/sundipped)
-- beat the god Apollo

erm

Uncuffed WW got beat by the First Born. There is absolutely no reason to put her above the guy who wrecked Apollo.

But then you put WW above Superman so it's clear you're trolling or just have no clue what you are talking about.

Zack Fair

Superman should be taken out of the list.

Bench pressing planet shits on everything here.

carver9

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Superman should be taken out of the list.

Bench pressing planet shits on everything here.

Not just about that. You have to look at fights as well and looking at how easily Wonder Woman handled two Kryptonians, where one was actually choking Superman at the end of the battle, an argument can be made (she was literally tossing both Zod and Faora around like rag dolls).

SasuOna

Zod breaking Superman's arm easily makes all the difference

celeyhyga17

Supes is #1

ares834

Originally posted by carver9
Not just about that. You have to look at fights as well and looking at how easily Wonder Woman handled two Kryptonians, where one was actually choking Superman at the end of the battle, an argument can be made (she was literally tossing both Zod and Faora around like rag dolls).

Yes. And then you look at how WW was outdone by Orion against the First Born, humiliated by Doomsday, etc... Nor does she have any strength feats near the caliber that Superman has showcased.

Wonder Woman is good. But when it comes to shear strength there is absolutely no reason to claim she is Superman's equal let alone superior.

SasuOna

well if we go by pure strength feats then kryptonians have everyone outclassed due to the Superman benchpressing the earth's weight stuff.

It all becomes more of a wash when you go by the win/loss record since the reboot.

ares834

Not really. Especially since it's made abundantly clear in the comic that Superman's loss isn't due to a lack of strength but rather a lack of training.

h1a8

So many place strength as the most important thing in determining the winner of a fight. Strength is helpful but it alone don't always decides the Victor.

So please stop with the A beat B and thus A is stronger than B arguments. People lose fights FOR MANY DIFFERENT reasons outside strength.

carver9

Originally posted by ares834
Yes. And then you look at how WW was outdone by Orion against the First Born, humiliated by Doomsday, etc... Nor does she have any strength feats near the caliber that Superman has showcased.

Wonder Woman is good. But when it comes to shear strength there is absolutely no reason to claim she is Superman's equal let alone superior.

This type of argument is terrible. That's like me saying, looking at Superman fight against Zod, that alien unknown predator, not about to name all of his defeats but this doesn't make Superman look less powerful and Orion had the advantage against him in combat anyways and first born stomped both Orion and Wonder Woman.

Cogito

Using all "base" versions.

Helspont - Backhanded Superman
Apollo - Backhanded Superman, but not as hard as Helspont
Superman
Orion - Fought Superman briefly, superior to WW against First Born
Captain Marvel - Briefly fought Superman, appeared relatively equal
Wonder Woman - Clearly inferior to Orion vs. First Born
Supergirl - Stopped reading her ongoing, but had nothing superior to Clark
Aquaman - Strong, but quite a bit below everyone else

---

Not listed category
Brutaal - Hasn't been doing strength feats, has had no physical threat/test
Black Adam - Historically should be equal to Captain Marvel, but I'm not going to list him because of Ultraman beatdown
Dr. Fate - Has a whopping 0 strength feats
Geo Force - Not familiar with DCnU version
Majestic - Ditto
Martian Manhunter - Could speculate, but didn't have definitive strength feats
Superboy - Uses TK, not strength

carver9

Originally posted by ares834
Yes. And then you look at how WW was outdone by Orion against the First Born, humiliated by Doomsday, etc... Nor does she have any strength feats near the caliber that Superman has showcased.

Wonder Woman is good. But when it comes to shear strength there is absolutely no reason to claim she is Superman's equal let alone superior.

Lol...Superman didn't do anything to Doomsday either except get punched nearly out of orbit.

Wonder Woman never got the chance to bench press earth but looking at her fights, she is easily top tier and physically equal to the best.

Her battles fts easily puts her in the upper tier. She manhandled a GL while drop kicking Superman some distance.

ares834

Originally posted by carver9
This type of argument is terrible. That's like me saying, looking at Superman fight against Zod, that alien unknown predator, not about to name all of his defeats but this doesn't make Superman look less powerful and Orion had the advantage against him in combat anyways and first born stomped both Orion and Wonder Woman.

facepalm

My point is you (and many others) are only looking at a single fight to determine which is stronger. Looking at their feats/accolades holistically there is no doubt which is superior.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...Superman didn't do anything to Doomsday either except get punched nearly out of orbit.

Not sure why you replied to the same comment twice but whatever.

While we haven't see it yet, we know Superman beats DD. His fight with Doomsday has been referenced in Morrison's Action Comics and Swamp Thing. The Doomsday comic has a prophetic vision of Superman defeating DD. And of course, the authors of the upcoming Doomsday arc have mentioned that Superman defeats him within the first comic.

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder Woman never got the chance to bench press earth but looking at her fights, she is easily top tier and physically equal to the best.

Her battles fts easily puts her in the upper tier. She manhandled a GL while drop kicking Superman some distance.

She is up there. I've said that. However, she isn't as strong as Superman.

celeyhyga17

Going by combats showings, strength feats(lifting, pushing, striking, pulling), and even statements from narration or characters, I can't see why anyone would pick someone else other than Clark.

carver9

Not saying he is or isn't the strongest but I wont fault anyone for saying Diana is either, or at least up there. They are treating Gods in DCNU like gold. Superman also referenced that Diana could have handled Apollo on her own "without an amp". She is getting her praise.

carver9

Originally posted by ares834
facepalm

My point is you (and many others) are only looking at a single fight to determine which is stronger. Looking at their feats/accolades holistically there is no doubt which is superior.

Not sure why you replied to the same comment twice but whatever.

While we haven't see it yet, we know Superman beats DD. His fight with Doomsday has been referenced in Morrison's Action Comics and Swamp Thing. The Doomsday comic has a prophetic vision of Superman defeating DD. And of course, the authors of the upcoming Doomsday arc have mentioned that Superman defeats him within the first comic.

She is up there. I've said that. However, she isn't as strong as Superman.

How does Superman beat Doomsday?.

SasuOna

Originally posted by h1a8
So many place strength as the most important thing in determining the winner of a fight. Strength is helpful but it alone don't always decides the Victor.

So please stop with the A beat B and thus A is stronger than B arguments. People lose fights FOR MANY DIFFERENT reasons outside strength.

A>B<C or A>B>C
Has its place for example look at street level characters like nightwing and red hood.
Nightwing in the new 52 got toasted by lady shiva whereas Jason was able to beat her.
We learn things in fights since they also happen to give credence to the characters without feats when they match up against the characters that do.

h1a8

Originally posted by SasuOna
A>B<C or A>B>C
Has its place for example look at street level characters like nightwing and red hood.
Nightwing in the new 52 got toasted by lady shiva whereas Jason was able to beat her.
We learn things in fights since they also happen to give credence to the characters without feats when they match up against the characters that do. fighting skill has nothing to do with physical strength.
Fighting skill can't be measured accurately since it depends on so many factors. It takes a skilled fighter to best judge fighting ability. Strength is very straight forward and can be easily measured or gauged by almost anyone.

Who wins a fight can have very little or nothing to do with physical strength.

-Pr-

Well, this turned out pretty much like I expected.

Sad to be right so often, tbh.

abhilegend

What does wonder woman holding her own or even doing better than superman due to her training is to do with strength? She looked peerish to Faora and that's it. Supergirl looked peerish to her too in that fight and even stronger IIRC. She was outperformed by Orion even without bracers.

bluewaterrider

1. Wonder Woman (uncuffed)
-- beat the goddess Artemis with ease

http://oi61.tinypic.com/2i05643.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/sl38m8.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/514hlt.jpg

-- impressed the god Apollo

http://oi59.tinypic.com/2lnxty.jpg

carver9

Just want to throw out that Orion looked superior to Superman during their scuffle and pretty much tanked everything Superman threw at him and smiled at Supes blitz attack. Wonder Woman saved him.

chipguy_okay

In order from strongest to weakest

Apollo
He beat the shit out of wonder-woman. However, it seems like he has the power to 'sun-punch'. So in theory he should be the strongest...and he can also floor Superman. He was just unlucky in that Supes get super boosted by his ability. Superman even commented on it after...it was a big temp power-boost and speaks to Apollo's status.

Superman
Where Appollo is the sun Superman is the earth. In theory Superman could also pull a superigirl golden shower style ultra punch...

Orion
He tanked blow after blow from Superman, but didn't hurt him much either. I'd say he's got better durability than strength. He's close to supes though.

Wonderwoman with her cuffs on she isn't as strong as superman. With the cuffs off she is probably a bit stronger.

Helspont
he is basically weaker than clark but makes up for it with magic, tk, etc.

Majestic. Solid nuke tanker and nukelevel destruction guy who has generally shown more than everyone below, and got owned due to Rose's power. He could very well be5 or 6 spots lower if we disregard someof the encounters.

Captain Marvel-he performed better against Supeman than adam did Ultraman.

Black Adam- he got owned by Ultraman and didn't really hurt him.

Supergirl-She did worse than Marvel did against superman given Clark wasn't really fighting back.

Brutaal-The Earth 2 people are those Darksied could slaughter. Superman here isn't as strong as earth 1...and from what he's shown i cant put him to high

Aquaman Underwater. don't **** with the sea king!

Superboy-
Better showings than John for the most part, but still nothing impressive.

Martian Manhunter. Not many showings of strength and seems like he uses his other powers more for battle.

Dr. Fate- not really a raw physical strength gy...

-Pr-

celeyhyga17

carver9

Originally posted by -Pr-
lol, the **** he did.

Uuuummmm, Superman was laid on the ground and Orion was just getting started. Superman even admitted to Wonder Woman that he was embarrassed because of his condition. DC is loving the gods.

-Pr-

Originally posted by carver9
Uuuummmm, Superman was laid on the ground and Orion was just getting started. Superman even admitted to Wonder Woman that he was embarrassed because of his condition. DC is loving the gods.

lol, you stretch the truth so much, it's going to snap.

LordofBrooklyn

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Again u have shown me the light.

Orion >>>> Superman

Carver is now your source for DC canon.

A moral disgrace!

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by carver9
Just want to throw out that Orion looked superior to Superman during their scuffle and pretty much tanked everything Superman threw at him and smiled at Supes blitz attack. Wonder Woman saved him.

Originally posted by -Pr-
lol, the **** he did.

Originally posted by carver9
Uuuummmm, Superman was laid on the ground and Orion was just getting started. Superman even admitted to Wonder Woman that he was embarrassed because of his condition. DC is loving the gods.

Originally posted by -Pr-
lol, you stretch the truth so much, it's going to snap.

Based on what I could find online, Carver's report seems fairly accurate.
I don't think I'd use the word "tanked" to describe how Orion took Superman's hits, for to many people "tanked" means "took without any noticeable effect",
but the rest of it appears more or less on point.

Here, it amazes me that you guys so seldom use scans to resolve this type of dispute:

http://oi59.tinypic.com/jqlypv.jpg
http://oi62.tinypic.com/24liff9.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/6jhlj4.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/29fz6ro.jpg

http://oi61.tinypic.com/6o0jtt.jpg
http://oi58.tinypic.com/213ge9g.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/rvao9d.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/50l5y1.jpg

(Source: Superman #20? Volume 3?)

-Pr-

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Based on what I could find online, Carver's report seems fairly accurate.
I don't think I'd use the word "tanked" to describe how Orion took Superman's hits, for to many people "tanked" means "took without any noticeable effect",
but the rest of it appears more or less on point.

Here, it amazes me that you guys so seldom use scans to resolve this type of dispute:

http://oi59.tinypic.com/jqlypv.jpg
http://oi62.tinypic.com/24liff9.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/6jhlj4.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/29fz6ro.jpg

http://oi61.tinypic.com/6o0jtt.jpg
http://oi58.tinypic.com/213ge9g.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/rvao9d.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/50l5y1.jpg

(Source: Superman #20? Volume 3?)

Not sure if you're serious. You think scans have honestly never been used before to resolve things?

If all it took was scans, this would be a much quieter forum.

A compromised Superman still managed to spend most of his fight with Orion on the offensive, but Orion somehow looks stronger? Really?

if being able to take a punch and keep coming is all it takes to look superior, then Superman would be top of the mountain by a long way.

Based

http://i.imgur.com/NLtT8lW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/VWuGyVp.jpg

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by -Pr-
Not sure if you're serious.

Very.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You think scans have honestly never been used before to resolve things?

I didn't say "never".

I said "so seldom".

Scans are, of course, used sometimes to resolve matters.
I'm just surprised those times are so few and far between.

Given how effective they are at correcting for people simply misremembering or not understanding what they looked at the first time around, I'm genuinely surprised the posting of scans isn't standard operating procedure.

Originally posted by -Pr-

A compromised Superman still managed to spend most of his fight with Orion on the offensive, but Orion somehow looks stronger? Really?

It's actually quite easy to see the opposite point of view:

"compromised Superman"?

Presumably you refer to Hammond, but there's little if any indication Hammond was doing any controlling of Superman during the fight, unless I did not read carefully enough.
He just got Superman in front of Orion; Orion's violent nature plus the limited information Orion had on Superman took care of the rest.
Hammond even stresses how much trouble he went through to keep quiet and HIDE his presence from detection.

"still managed to spend most of his fight with Orion on the offensive"

I can only assume you're saying Superman was on the offensive, especially with the sequence of Supes laying into Orion for ... what?
10 unanswered blows? 20? One or more of those delivered 2 handed?
None of those seemed to have the effect of the first (surprise?) off-panel-delivered blow that Superman hit Orion with before that page.

Does this really suggest superior strength as opposed to superior speed?
How would my saying Zoom is stronger than Wonder Woman because Zoom hit her 50 times to every blow she landed in return be a different proposition?

Originally posted by -Pr-

if being able to take a punch and keep coming is all it takes to look superior, then Superman would be top of the mountain by a long way.

Pr, you know as well as I do that this is precisely what Superman fans DO try to argue to say that Superman is stronger than other heroes and villains.
It is substitution of recovery ability, "damage soak" and/or "durability" (invulnerability, etcetera) for physical strength.

Originally posted by -Pr-

Orion somehow looks stronger? Really?

Consider the opposite point of view:

Faced with an opponent who is faster, who catches Orion by surprise,
who pummels Orion with a series of blows to the one Orion landed on him to start the fight,
Orion appears unhurt, bloodies Superman with a lone punch in retaliation, and all but effortlessly solo lifts an aircraft carrier to throw at Supes in return.

What is a person who saw the artwork of Superman AND Wonder Woman struggling together with an aircraft carrier in an earlier magazine going to conclude?

bluewaterrider

Say, Pr, while I've got you here,
or, at least, while I await your nearly inevitable return:

Originally posted by -Pr-
I can't edit that thread, sadly.
I have been meaning to reply to the last post you made to me, though.

I've added a lot of material since your last visit, especially the now blue-linked
sections of pages 5 and 6. Did any of my additions make things clearer?
If you're not adverse to PMs, I'm open to suggestions as to whether or not anything can be done to improve organization or read-ability.

Thanks in advance for your time.

abhilegend

Superman was holding back substantially against Orion while Orion was bloodlusted. To add the fact that Orion started the fight with a total sucker punch and all it did was piss superman off and hit Orion with a punch that was the "hardest he's ever hit".

Parasite took several blitzing punches from superman under the same writer and was just fine.

http://i.imgur.com/QN3MtgV.jpg

Holy ****, parasite is stronger than superman before even draining his powers!!!!

carver9

Exactly. He hit Superman a couple of times and Superman was laid on the ground while by the end of.that fight, Orion appeared as if he was just getting started. Superman even states this (not exactly how I said it). Orion didn't have a scratch on him whereas Superman was bleeding and on the ground (had to be helped up by Wonder Woman).

DarkSaint85

Superman was being polite, mind controlled, and was mostly only embarrassed doe.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Superman was being polite, mind controlled, and was mostly only embarrassed doe.

Polite? Mind controlled? Of course he was embarrassed and I wonder why?

DarkSaint85

Polite:
http://oi61.tinypic.com/6o0jtt.jpg

Mind control (or at least, not at 100%):
http://oi59.tinypic.com/50l5y1.jpg

He wasn't REALLY hurt:
http://oi58.tinypic.com/213ge9g.jpg

Not too bad considering Orion was bloodlusted and out to kill him:
http://oi57.tinypic.com/29fz6ro.jpg

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Polite:
http://oi61.tinypic.com/6o0jtt.jpg

Mind control (or at least, not at 100%):
http://oi59.tinypic.com/50l5y1.jpg

He wasn't REALLY hurt:
http://oi58.tinypic.com/213ge9g.jpg

Not too bad considering Orion was bloodlusted and out to kill him:
http://oi57.tinypic.com/29fz6ro.jpg

He was hiding inside Superman, not controlling him.

Lol...him blitz punching Orion and hitting Orion harder than he's ever been hit is polite?

He was laid on the ground bleeding. Wonder Woman had to help him up on his feet and he even said he was embarrassed (at his condition of course).

So that last heat vision attack that Orion withstood without a scratch is Superman going all out?

abhilegend

http://i.imgur.com/4nGh91j.jpg

Superman was directly stated to be more powerful than either Orion or Wonder Woman in the very same issue. Coincidence?

mmm

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
He was hiding inside Superman, not controlling him.

Lol...him blitz punching Orion and hitting Orion harder than he's ever been hit is polite?

He stated, clear as possible, that he was being polite. Not sure why you're arguing this? And what does Orion being it harder than ever before have to do with anything? It just means that Orion's never fought anyone on his own level before.

If you punch me, and its the hardest I've ever been hit.....does that automatically mean you were going all out? What if I've only ever been sparring with handicapped toddlers? See what I'm getting at?

He also said he was mostly OK. But you're glossing over that?

He can't be going all out - not when there's Hammond hiding out there....I mean, we've had mod rulings that his performance in Sacrifice aren't really usable, because there was mind phuckery going on....

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He stated, clear as possible, that he was being polite.
Not sure why you're arguing this?

Exactly.

Why should we be debating whether the man is polite or not?

A display of good manners is nearly always a good thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tSa3xLVYgM

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He stated, clear as possible, that he was being polite. Not sure why you're arguing this? And what does Orion being it harder than ever before have to do with anything? It just means that Orion's never fought anyone on his own level before.

If you punch me, and its the hardest I've ever been hit.....does that automatically mean you were going all out? What if I've only ever been sparring with handicapped toddlers? See what I'm getting at?

He also said he was mostly OK. But you're glossing over that?

He can't be going all out - not when there's Hammond hiding out there....I mean, we've had mod rulings that his performance in Sacrifice aren't really usable, because there was mind phuckery going on....

I disagree with his showing of politeness. That's all. Him pounding on Orion isnt a sign of being polite.

Ok means 'not 100%'. I can take the words ok in a lot of routes thinking about it.

I can't believe you Dark. Now you're using the Mind controlled argument when, not so long ago, in the Hulk and Hyperion thread, you tried using a mind controlled Hulk and Hyperion fight 'against' the Hulk. I'm confused.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9

I can't believe you carver. Now you're using the Mind controlled argument when, not so long ago, in the Hulk and Hyperion thread, you tried using a mind controlled Hulk and Hyperion fight 'for' the Hulk. I'm confused.

Fixed.
mad

Besides, when Hyperion landed the final punch (the one that reverted him back) he wasn't under mind control.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Fixed.
mad

Besides, when Hyperion landed the final punch (the one that reverted him back) he wasn't under mind control.

Lol...you brought it up. I never said anything about Hulk being mind controlled. I'm just surprised you are using this as an argument when you was all for it yesterday.

Hyperion didn't revert Hulk.

DarkSaint85

I brought it up in the context of Superman's battle performance, Superman had earlier been 'seeing things' that weren't there etc, for example.

In the other thread, had I said - Hyperion was outfighting Hulk, as shown with their fight when they were with Ex Nihilo - then you would have a case. but I didn't. I brought it up because it showed that Hyperion was strong enough to knock Hulk out, which reverts him back to Banner. This has been seen multiple times with Indestructible Hulk - the undersea monster knocked him out, the explosion with Iron Man etc.

But an argument for another thread.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I brought it up in the context of Superman's battle performance, Superman had earlier been 'seeing things' that weren't there etc, for example.

In the other thread, had I said - Hyperion was outfighting Hulk, as shown with their fight when they were with Ex Nihilo - then you would have a case. but I didn't. I brought it up because it showed that Hyperion was strong enough to knock Hulk out, which reverts him back to Banner. This has been seen multiple times with Indestructible Hulk - the undersea monster knocked him out, the explosion with Iron Man etc.

But an argument for another thread.

How did he knock Hulk out hut Banner was still conscious and 100%? Usually when Hulk is knocked out, even during the times you've brought up, he reverts to Banner (or sometimes stay in Hulk form) and he is koed. That wasn't the case here. That scene was obvious Dark. You're making something difficult than what it is. He reverted back to Hulk as soon as she lost her connection/mind control with him which is the reason why Hyperion punches before that didn't revert Hulk back.

carver9

Dark, can you show me a scan of Hulk being koed, reverts back to Banner and Banner is still awake?

-Pr-

Jesus, Carver, you really hate Superman, don't you. Like, with actual hate.

bluewaterrider

It's worth pointing out, if I've not done so in this thread yet, that physical strength is not the same as invulnerability.

Compared to Kryptonians and the like, Wonder Woman's durability is crap.
Compared to Batman? She's tough.
Compared to Ultraman or J.Q. Average Kryptonian? Not so much.
Powerful strikes or collisions, for instance, can do damage to her sometimes even she's blocking because of this lack of K-level invulnerability.
Wondy's lost to a lot of people comic narration and feats explicitly say she's stronger than throughout her history as a result.

Easiest example to give:

Diana versus Cheetah, Wonder Woman v2 #9
http://oi57.tinypic.com/k2b5et.jpg

Meanwhile, noticing who's featured above, it's also worth pointing out that, despite overt aggressive displays,
even the current version of Wonder Woman is wont to be conservative with her power, holding back her full strength in many encounters.
This is explicitly stated in the panel below; later I'll probably show where Diana held back her full power in her 2nd bout
with the goddess Artemis to spare casualties among nearby onlookers.

Surprised teammates ponder DCnU Wondy's skirmish with Cheetah
http://oi58.tinypic.com/1zq7wc5.jpg

Diana versus Doomsday
(Impactbreak. Non-invulnerable bones shatter.)
http://oi60.tinypic.com/110he9s.jpg

Diana versus Apollo

http://oi61.tinypic.com/2z4zkld.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/akkcr7.jpg

pushy Cheetah is pushy dotcom

carver9

Originally posted by -Pr-
Jesus, Carver, you really hate Superman, don't you. Like, with actual hate.

This isn't about me hating anyone honestly. I just think that DC are displaying the gods as being above Earth hero's. That's me and Darks argument. That all. I also disagree with his assessment.

God Cloth Seiya

1. Batman
2. Batman
3. Batman
4. Batman
5. Batman
6. Batman
7. Batman
8. Batman
9. Batman
10. Batman
11. Batman
12. Batman
13. Batman
14. Batman
15. Batman

/Thread

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

3. Apollo

-- apparent peer or superior to goddess sister Artemis
-- beat cuffed Wonder Woman

5. Wonder Woman (cuffed)

-- outmatched by the god Apollo
-- overpowers Faora
-- holds own with Zod

7. Superman

-- has his arm broken casually by Zod, though Zod does not do the same against Wonder Woman

http://oi62.tinypic.com/29usvn7.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/6y16b8.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/2e1d8ow.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/209r4ed.jpg

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2n0qvl.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/x573ps.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/27xpfcz.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/8voj8l.jpg

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by h1a8

Strength is very straight forward and can be easily measured or gauged by almost anyone.

Not necessarily true.

Originally posted by h1a8

Who wins a fight can have very little or nothing to do with physical strength.

This much is true.

Of course, the flip side is that who wins in a fight can have a great deal to do with physical strength.

Certain fights suggest physical strength is the reason for a victor's victory quite powerfully, after all.

Example:

Diana versus Hercules
http://oi61.tinypic.com/wqzc5g.jpg

The kind of combat above measures strength pretty directly, and is more or less
a hand grip/body strength test.

Notice the parallel in the fight against Faora.
This looks nearly EXACTLY like that kind of grip strength test,
with Faora struggling to control Wonder Woman's sword.

Interestingly, Faora is using 2 hands for this (you can tell because both hands shown grasping the hilt of the sword have gloves on)

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2cgfwqx.jpg

while we've only on this page seen Wonder Woman use one.

Diana's position, which went from being directly in front of Faora to Faora's side,
implies that she's using her other arm to surround and pseudo squeeze Faora, much as someone would when trying to get in close and put a blade to someone's throat.

Heavy implications are there, though not conclusive.
Note that at this point Faora is virtually untouched; she doesn't seem to have been weakened visibly in any way by taking a blow, suffering a cramp, etcetera.

Of course, after she loses the grappling contest for Wondy's sword,
Faora's scalded by the blade,
and Diana takes the opportunity to take the fight to Zod.

Diana holds her own with Zod close-fighting, though Clark will get summarily wrecked trying the same thing, and when Diana goes back to Faora ...

http://oi62.tinypic.com/73nkb5.jpg

... we see Diana seem to get the better of Faora in another grappling contest,
apparently successfully getting a choke on Faora started at the end of it,

hold Faora at bay while negotiating with Zod for Clark,

and lightly toss Faora away.

Absolutely 100% iron-clad conclusive?
No.

But a very strong suggestion of where any strength advantage might lie between these two.

Maybe something will happen next month to put the issue in doubt, or even turn the debate in Faora's favor.

In fact, given how grudgingly DC likes to give Wondy good showings, historically, I half-expect that WILL happen.

But for the present there's good reason to think Diana is superior to Faora in strength (though probably not NEARLY as tough).
And examining all the other evidence we have to this point, good reason to think Diana's actually stronger than Clark, too.

bronzebrawn

carver9

Hulk most definenlty win this based off of his current ft. Hulk strength fts keep stacking.

-Pr-

Good luck arguing that Diana is stronger than Superman. You'll need it, tbh.

abhilegend

Haha, Blue is still going with "wonder woman is stronger than superman" tripe? Good luck with that especially after 'Superman/Supergirl and lucifer thread". Even carver wouldn't go that far.

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by ares834

Uncuffed WW got beat by the First Born.
There is absolutely no reason to put her above the guy who wrecked Apollo.

Problem 1:

First Born wrecked Apollo, too.

http://oi62.tinypic.com/2n1iao1.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/9i70g0.jpg

http://oi57.tinypic.com/5as1e0.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/n2llwp.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/2po1qbs.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/2q2pbv4.jpg

To be fair to you, though, this was only released recently.
It's also very easy to argue that Apollo's effort in the fight to that point left him too exhausted to muster his normal level of physical strength for defense.

ares834

First Born most certainly did not "wreck" Apollo. He may have won (we don't even know that yet) but that's a far cry from how easily sundipped Superman utterly dominated Apollo.

SasuOna

Was Apollo even fighting Superman like he was fighting the First Born? Seems like he's trying harder against the First Born than he is in his fight with Superman.

Granted the First Born is supposed to be >>>>>>All gods and that means he's beyond uncuffed Wondy IIRC

bluewaterrider

NemeBro

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
http://oi62.tinypic.com/29usvn7.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/6y16b8.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/2e1d8ow.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/209r4ed.jpg

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2n0qvl.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/x573ps.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/27xpfcz.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/8voj8l.jpg

You do realize that Superman when fighting both Zod and Faora was being blasted by heat vision (Which contributed to his difficulty with them), which he couldn't deflect with a blade like Diana could, right?

Also, scan three shows Superman throwing them both off of him at the same time, so, lol. And Superman's dialogue indicates he also didn't want to hurt them.

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by NemeBro

Superman's dialogue indicates he ... didn't want to hurt them.

Zod's dialogue likewise indicates he didn't want to hurt Superman.

http://oi61.tinypic.com/vpj2ap.jpg

Originally posted by NemeBro
You do realize that Superman when fighting both Zod and Faora was being blasted by heat vision (Which contributed to his difficulty with them), which he couldn't deflect with a blade like Diana could, right?

You do realize that has little if anything to do with how Superman fared in the 2nd half of the fight, after Wonder Woman had intervened to help Superman, right?

Originally posted by NemeBro

Also, scan three shows Superman throwing them both off of him at the same time, so, lol.

1. Throws are indicated via "Thwam" sounds and clenched fists?
That used to be the convention for punches. Guess times change.

2. Too bad Superman didn't "throw" Zod off when he was fighting him singly.
Might have saved Superman from a world of hurt and getting choked into helplessness.

carver9

Originally posted by NemeBro
You do realize that Superman when fighting both Zod and Faora was being blasted by heat vision (Which contributed to his difficulty with them), which he couldn't deflect with a blade like Diana could, right?

Also, scan three shows Superman throwing them both off of him at the same time, so, lol. And Superman's dialogue indicates he also didn't want to hurt them.

Doesn't have a thing to with that. Wonder Woman PHYSICALLY stomped both Zod and Faora and Zod even admitted during the end that Wonder Woman could kill them (thats when she made the threat of taking both of them out if he harmed Superman).

Superman probably did throw both of them off of him but then you have a scan where Zod broke Superman arm like a pretzel and was about to kill him until Wonder Woman saved him again.

NemeBro

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Zod's dialogue likewise indicates he didn't want to hurt Superman.

http://oi61.tinypic.com/vpj2ap.jpg

True and it also has little baring on what I was saying. Zod wasn't fighting two people at once. thumb up

Actually it has a lot to do with it and your inability to realize that much only demonstrates your pro-Diana bias. thumb up

Superman, as seen when Zod gets the better of him, is already injured by the time the second set of scans occurs. Diana is fresh.

Keep up my child.

What a cowardly attempt to divert attention away from the fact that Superman beat both off of them with a single exertion of effort.

No wonder most people don't even bother responding to you.

"Durrrrrrr da first feat don't count cuz Superman didn't do it again".

Try harder you coward. thumb up

I know a lot less about comics than you do, but it doesn't even take a full working knowledge of them to know that you're full of shit. thumb up

NemeBro

Originally posted by carver9
Doesn't have a thing to with that. Wonder Woman PHYSICALLY stomped both Zod and Faora and Zod even admitted during the end that Wonder Woman could kill them (thats when she made the threat of taking both of them out if he harmed Superman).

Superman probably did throw both of them off of him but then you have a scan where Zod broke Superman arm like a pretzel and was about to kill him until Wonder Woman saved him again. I don't have a beef with you here carver. Your stance is IIRC that Diana is not physically far below Superman. That is a statement I can accept based on blue's evidence.

I only take issue with blue's juvenile attempts at playing up Diana's abilities while making Superman look as weak as possible. thumb up

You know, I really do have to wonder why really knowledgeable Superman fans like Pr don't really participate in these debates. Are there none with the valor to oppose blue's cowardice?

Colossus-Big C

Originally posted by Cogito
Using all "base" versions.

Helspont - Backhanded Superman
Apollo - Backhanded Superman, but not as hard as Helspont
Superman
Orion - Fought Superman briefly, superior to WW against First Born
Captain Marvel - Briefly fought Superman, appeared relatively equal
Wonder Woman - Clearly inferior to Orion vs. First Born
Supergirl - Stopped reading her ongoing, but had nothing superior to Clark
Aquaman - Strong, but quite a bit below everyone else

---

Not listed category
Brutaal - Hasn't been doing strength feats, has had no physical threat/test
Black Adam - Historically should be equal to Captain Marvel, but I'm not going to list him because of Ultraman beatdown
Dr. Fate - Has a whopping 0 strength feats
Geo Force - Not familiar with DCnU version
Majestic - Ditto
Martian Manhunter - Could speculate, but didn't have definitive strength feats
Superboy - Uses TK, not strength can you post these backhandings?

carver9

Originally posted by NemeBro
I don't have a beef with you here carver. Your stance is IIRC that Diana is not physically far below Superman. That is a statement I can accept based on blue's evidence.

I only take issue with blue's juvenile attempts at playing up Diana's abilities while making Superman look as weak as possible. thumb up

abhilegend

You know, I really do have to wonder why really knowledgeable Superman fans like Pr don't really participate in these debates. Are there none with the valor to oppose blue's cowardice?
Nah, not the valor. Just not enough brain-cells to endure Blue's "Wonder Woman has been stronger than superman since golden age" drama. Read this thread if you have some extra brain-cells you want to get rid of.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=525118&pagenumber=2

Seriously this was the same guy who had a 100 page argument with other posters on DC boards about the topic that "Wonder Woman is twice as strong as superman." Too bad the forum closed down. It was always good for a laugh. This is close enough though.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t589178.html

-Pr-

All right, guys? The hostility has got to stop. This is way out of hand, and whether you agree with Blue or not, there's no excuse for ganging up on them like that.

As far as why I don't get involved with Clark v Diana debates anymore, the truth is that I'm not insane. I've been in debates with pretty much every Wonder Woman fan on this board (not saying there've been many, but still), and I honestly don't expect to change the minds of any of those fans any time soon.

====

As far as Superman and Diana being compared go? I've been reading a lot of the New 52 lately, and I've seen nothing from her (or any hero for that matter) that would put them above Superman in strength. He's still the top dog when it comes to strength, imo.

If I had seen something, I'd just avoid even talking about it, so I wouldn't have to say it out loud. Just because I can admit something I don't like, doesn't mean I would want to.

I'm not about to pretend I'm the most courteous or charming person in debates. I'm not. I get passionate, maybe even aggressive, but that's just how much I love comics. So if anyone's ever been offended by anything I've said, then I apologise.

If I think you're being a ****/hater though, I am going to say it. It's my right to disagree.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by -Pr-
All right, guys? The hostility has got to stop. This is way out of hand, and whether you agree with Blue or not, there's no excuse for ganging up on them like that.

As far as why I don't get involved with Clark v Diana debates anymore, the truth is that I'm not insane. I've been in debates with pretty much every Wonder Woman fan on this board (not saying there've been many, but still), and I honestly don't expect to change the minds of any of those fans any time soon.

====

As far as Superman and Diana being compared go? I've been reading a lot of the New 52 lately, and I've seen nothing from her (or any hero for that matter) that would put them above Superman in strength. He's still the top dog when it comes to strength, imo.

If I had seen something, I'd just avoid even talking about it, so I wouldn't have to say it out loud. Just because I can admit something I don't like, doesn't mean I would want to.

I'm not about to pretend I'm the most courteous or charming person in debates. I'm not. I get passionate, maybe even aggressive, but that's just how much I love comics. So if anyone's ever been offended by anything I've said, then I apologise.

If I think you're being a ****/hater though, I am going to say it. It's my right to disagree.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19glhtcbrmyaigif/original.gif

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

1. Wonder Woman (uncuffed)

-- beat the goddess Artemis with ease
-- impressed the god Apollo

5. Wonder Woman (cuffed)

-- outmatched by the goddess Artemis

http://oi61.tinypic.com/1zekxt3.jpg
http://oi58.tinypic.com/2w6hvm9.jpg

http://oi62.tinypic.com/2q1xi75.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/x3y8bb.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/4vgth1.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/296c6r5.jpg

An interesting supplement to the latter was seen recently in Wonder Woman #27:

Diana versus Artemis. Cuffed reSiberia.

http://oi58.tinypic.com/28tgz9y.jpg
http://oi62.tinypic.com/deoeah.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/5e8f94.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/2h565c9.jpg

(Note: The last scan is missing a panel, just before the last panel, where Diana says "I swear",
and where Artemis is in her shining "Deer Woman" form, still holding Diana in the same position as she was in bear form.)

Rao Kal El

Originally posted by NemeBro

You know, I really do have to wonder why really knowledgeable Superman fans

That is why Carver was here big grin

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

4. Martian Manhunter

-- judging from JL8, held his own against the Justice League single-handedly

http://oi58.tinypic.com/1fwb2w.jpg

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

5. Wonder Woman (cuffed)

-- overpowers Supergirl

http://oi58.tinypic.com/2ur0zcz.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/2lsdshf.jpg

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by SasuOna

Well, if we go by pure strength feats, then Kryptonians have everyone outclassed due to the Superman "bench-pressing the earth's weight" stuff ...

The achievement you mentioned above deserves a feature in this thread.

I'm more than a little surprised no one has posted it yet.

Then again, no one before me posted it in Superman's own Respect Thread either:

http://oi60.tinypic.com/1qhlqf.jpg

(originally posted on page 107 of the KMC Revamped Superman Respect thread)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=14056929

I should get back into the habit of providing reference information for what I post.
Not until recently have I fallen away from doing so.

I'll gradually resume the practice.

I'll start with the above entry:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Superman #13, Volume 3
Writer: Scott Lobdell
Penciller: Kenneth Rockafort
Date: October 2012
----------------------------------------------------------------------

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by SasuOna

Well, if we go by pure strength feats, then kryptonians have everyone outclassed due to the Superman "bench-pressing the earth's weight" stuff.

It all becomes more of a wash when you go by the win/loss record since the reboot.

Likewise there's the problem of reconciling how strong characters struggle with challenges orders of magnitude
below their best feat, as in the case of those aircraft carriers mentioned before:

http://oi58.tinypic.com/2ajyr82.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/14v69p0.jpg

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

6. Supergirl (Matt Idelsen)

-- displays power greater than Superman had at the age she is from the moment she arrives on Earth

-- held as most powerful by WorldKillers DESPITE their knowing Superman is also on Earth

-- apparently possesses the innate ability to create self-empowering/repowering light energy

6. Supergirl (Matt Idelsen)

-- displays power greater than Superman had at the age she is from the moment she arrives on Earth:

http://oi62.tinypic.com/2djleg.jpg

-- held as most powerful by WorldKillers DESPITE their knowing Superman is also on Earth:

http://oi62.tinypic.com/bhyg43.jpg
(Note: This scan is the result of combining TWO succeeding pages of Supergirl #6 that has this conversation between Kara and Reign.)

-- apparently possesses the innate ability to create self-empowering/repowering light energy:

http://oi61.tinypic.com/jugub5.jpg

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Issue #2 pages were shown, and it includes the first time Supergirl meets her cousin, Superman.
"There's a certain distrust," Asrar said with a laugh as a slide was shown where Supergirl punches Superman.

"She's actually stronger than Kal-El," Idelson said.
Johnson said, "She came out of that pod ready to go, as people noticed," he said.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.newsarama.com/8536-nycc-2011-dc-all-access-superman-panel.html

bluewaterrider

It should be fairly obvious by now that I'm systematically going through and filling in scan support for all the statements I made on page 1.

Here's what I've got so far:

1. Wonder Woman (uncuffed)

-- beat the goddess Artemis with ease
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2i05643.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/sl38m8.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/514hlt.jpg

-- impressed the god Apollo
http://oi59.tinypic.com/2lnxty.jpg

2. Superman (suncharged/sundipped)

-- beat the god Apollo

3. Apollo

-- swatted Superman away like a pest
(until accidentally supercharging Clark with concentrated sunlight)

-- beat cuffed Wonder Woman
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2z4zkld.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/akkcr7.jpg

4. Martian Manhunter

-- judging from JL8, held his own against the Justice League single-handedly
http://oi58.tinypic.com/1fwb2w.jpg

5. Wonder Woman (cuffed)

-- historically lacks Kryptonian-level durability, which is often wrongly held against her as lacking pure physical strength

Diana versus Cheetah, Wonder Woman v2 #9
http://oi57.tinypic.com/k2b5et.jpg

Diana versus Doomsday
(Impactbreak. Non-invulnerable bones shatter.)
http://oi60.tinypic.com/110he9s.jpg

-- holds back even at standard levels against many opponents

Surprised teammates ponder DCnU Wondy's skirmish with Cheetah
http://oi58.tinypic.com/1zq7wc5.jpg

-- outmatched by the god Apollo
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2z4zkld.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/akkcr7.jpg

-- outmatched by the goddess Artemis

http://oi61.tinypic.com/1zekxt3.jpg
http://oi58.tinypic.com/2w6hvm9.jpg

http://oi62.tinypic.com/2q1xi75.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/x3y8bb.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/4vgth1.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/296c6r5.jpg

Diana versus Artemis. Cuffed reSiberia.

http://oi58.tinypic.com/28tgz9y.jpg
http://oi62.tinypic.com/deoeah.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/5e8f94.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/2h565c9.jpg

(Note: The last scan is missing a panel, just before the last panel, where Diana says "I swear",
and where Artemis is in her shining "Deer Woman" form, still holding Diana in the same position as she was in bear form.)

-- overpowers Faora
Certain fights suggest physical strength is the reason for a victor's victory quite powerfully.
Example:
Diana versus Hercules
http://oi61.tinypic.com/wqzc5g.jpg
The kind of combat above measures strength pretty directly, and is more or less
a hand grip/body strength test.

Notice the parallel in the fight against Faora.
This looks nearly EXACTLY like that kind of grip strength test,
with Faora struggling to control Wonder Woman's sword.

Interestingly, Faora is using 2 hands for this (you can tell because both hands shown grasping the hilt of the sword have gloves on)
http://oi60.tinypic.com/2cgfwqx.jpg
while we've only on this page seen Wonder Woman use one.

Diana holds her own with Zod close-fighting, though Clark will get summarily wrecked trying the same thing, and when Diana goes back to Faora ...
http://oi62.tinypic.com/73nkb5.jpg
... we see Diana seem to get the better of Faora in another grappling contest,
apparently successfully getting a choke on Faora started at the end of it,
hold Faora at bay while negotiating with Zod for Clark,
and lightly toss Faora away.

-- holds own with Zod
http://oi60.tinypic.com/2n0qvl.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/x573ps.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/27xpfcz.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/8voj8l.jpg

-- overpowers Supergirl
http://oi58.tinypic.com/2ur0zcz.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/2lsdshf.jpg

6. Supergirl (Matt Idelsen)

-- displays power greater than Superman had at the age she is from the moment she arrives on Earth
http://oi62.tinypic.com/2djleg.jpg
-- held as most powerful by WorldKillers DESPITE their knowing Superman is also on Earth
http://oi62.tinypic.com/bhyg43.jpg
-- apparently possesses the innate ability to create self-empowering/repowering light energy
http://oi61.tinypic.com/jugub5.jpg

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Issue #2 pages were shown, and it includes the first time Supergirl meets her cousin, Superman.
"There's a certain distrust," Asrar said with a laugh as a slide was shown where Supergirl punches Superman.

"She's actually stronger than Kal-El," Idelson said.
Johnson said, "She came out of that pod ready to go, as people noticed," he said.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.newsarama.com/8536-nycc-2011-dc-all-access-superman-panel.html

Orion

-- hefted an aircraft carrier solo without apparent strain;
earlier Superman and Wonder Woman together struggled with one to save a city.

http://oi58.tinypic.com/2ajyr82.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/14v69p0.jpg

-- looked stronger than Superman in their fight

http://oi59.tinypic.com/jqlypv.jpg
http://oi62.tinypic.com/24liff9.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/6jhlj4.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/29fz6ro.jpg

http://oi61.tinypic.com/6o0jtt.jpg
http://oi58.tinypic.com/213ge9g.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/rvao9d.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/50l5y1.jpg

7. Superman

-- has his arm broken casually by Zod, though Zod does not do the same against Wonder Woman

http://oi62.tinypic.com/29usvn7.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/6y16b8.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/2e1d8ow.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/209r4ed.jpg

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2n0qvl.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/x573ps.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/27xpfcz.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/8voj8l.jpg

8. Black Adam
-- beaten by Ultraman who is, presumably, the rough equal of Superman

9. Supergirl (Eddie Berganza)

10. Aquaman

abhilegend

Hahaha. This is getting laughable by now. Martian Manhunter stronger than Superman? Orion being stronger than Superman? ****ing Supergirl being touted as stronger than superman based on an interview which was later negated?

crylaugh

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

But....you make an excuse for WW having her bones broken (using the point that durability =/= strength), but not for Zod breaking Superman's?

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But ... you make an excuse for WW having her bones broken (using the point that durability =/= strength), but not for Zod breaking Superman's?

What excuse would you like to use for Superman, Dark?

Go ahead and put it in here.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
What excuse would you like to use for Superman, Dark?

Go ahead and put it in here.

Zod, being an alpha male, and having an anger towards Superman for not joining him, was more focussed on humiliating and hurting him, rather than a female he had just met. So he deliberately set out to break that arm.

He also sees Superman as MORE of a threat, but yet, does not want to kill another Kryptonian. So disables him.

DarkSaint85

Or that it's PIS, as the writer/illustrator didn't want to show a male character breaking a female character in half. It's fine to show it with Doomsday as he is mindless, but not if you want to later create a villain you can sympathise with.

Take your pick

Interesting in Hector's choice of hidey hole, though. Especially in front of two others who may lay claim to that title...

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

http://oi59.tinypic.com/50l5y1.jpg

abhilegend

For anybody interested, here is Supergirl vs Superman replica under Idleson's editing no less.

Supergirl vs Nanotech Superman who nearly killed her.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15233200/prv11556_pg3.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15233201/prv11556_pg4.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15233202/2384009-usuperman_06_006_copy_super.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15233203/2384010-usuperman_06_007_copy_super.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15233204/2384011-usuperman_06_010_copy_super.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15233216/2384012-usuperman_06_011_copy_super.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15233205/2384013-usuperman_06_012_copy_super.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15233206/2384014-usuperman_06_013_copy_super.jpg.html

Superman vs Nanotech Superman who manhandled him like a child and broke him apart.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15233208/2384016-usuperman_06_015_copy_super.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15233209/2384017-usuperman_06_017_copy_super.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15233210/2384018-usuperman_06_018_copy_super.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15233211/2384019-usuperman_06_019_copy_super.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15233212/2384020-usuperman_06_020_copy_super.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15233213/2384022-usuperman_06_021_copy_super.jpg.html

As for arguing that Supergirl was more powerful than Superman, this from her own comic.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/Supergirl-Zone-021_zpse83fde48.jpg

Superman was stated to be more powerful than both Orion and Wonder Woman.

http://i.imgur.com/4nGh91j.jpg

As well as everyone else in superhero community.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y257/butterfingers158/SM7_zps6288b9d7.jpg

Again.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13067013/Superman_Annual-Zone-011.jpg.html

There are like half a dozen scans of him being stated that he was the most powerful being on the planet. Zod breaking his arm with both arm by his joint isn't because a lack of strength and neither does that indicates Wonder Woman is somehow stronger than him, the thought itself is retarded because Zod never had her by both arms and tried to break her arm.

There is so much stupidity in this thread.

DarkSaint85

Your face is stupid.

abhilegend

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Your face is stupid.
No you. Also can anybody post Superman rescuing wonder woman from Darkseid when he was manhandling her with one hand? I can't find the scans.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Or that it's PIS, as the writer/illustrator didn't want to show a male character breaking a female character in half. It's fine to show it with Doomsday as he is mindless, but not if you want to later create a villain you can sympathise with.

Take your pick

Interesting in Hector's choice of hidey hole, though. Especially in front of two others who may lay claim to that title...

Correction. He felt threatened by WW...to the point that she threatened to kill him if he killed Superman and Zod pretty much agreed that she would kill him.

http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/shogunofharlem1/media/Superman-WonderWoman2013-005-020_zps886fcd2d.jpg.html

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by abhilegend
No you. Also can anybody post Superman rescuing wonder woman from Darkseid when he was manhandling her with one hand? I can't find the scans.

My original post still stands mad

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
Correction. He felt threatened by WW...to the point that she threatened to kill him if he killed Superman and Zod pretty much agreed that she would kill him.

http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/shogunofharlem1/media/Superman-WonderWoman2013-005-020_zps886fcd2d.jpg.html

Or...he was more threatened by WW having her hand around his lover/2nd in command's throat, minutes after having revived her from the Phantom Zone. The way he casually dismisses her as 'woman', not even bothering to learn her name, leaving a weakened Faora to deal with her....does this sound like he saw WW as more of a threat, considering how protective he was of her?

In any case, whether he did or not, the fact still remains, that blue was ready to make excuses for WW, but not for Supes.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Or...he was more threatened by WW having her hand around his lover/2nd in command's throat, minutes after having revived her from the Phantom Zone. The way he casually dismisses her as 'woman', not even bothering to learn her name, leaving a weakened Faora to deal with her....does this sound like he saw WW as more of a threat, considering how protective he was of her?

In any case, whether he did or not, the fact still remains, that blue was ready to make excuses for WW, but not for Supes.

Lol...you are making excuses though. Love you like a lil brother but you have habits of adding things to comics that is pretty clear, cut, and dry. Him agreeing with WW, that she would kill him if he hurt Superman means exactly what was said. Then, looking at the fight entirely, I see no reason why he wouldn't believe her...she was working the both of them, solo. Accept what was said and move on. Lets not have an 8 page debate on what you THINK/THOUGHT Zod was talking about when we have clear on point proof of what he is saying. Lets not do this, it's too early in the morning for me to play the "debate off of what someone thinks instead of reading what's on panel.

thumb up

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...you are making excuses though. Love you like a lil brother but you have habits of adding things to comics that is pretty clear, cut, and dry. Him agreeing with WW, that she would kill him if he hurt Superman means exactly what was said. Then, looking at the fight entirely, I see no reason why he wouldn't believe her...she was working the both of them, solo. Accept what was said and move on. Lets not have an 8 page debate on what you THINK/THOUGHT Zod was talking about when we have clear on point proof of what he is saying. Lets not do this, it's too early in the morning for me to play the "debate off of what someone thinks instead of reading what's on panel.

thumb up

Lol, fair enough.

But bear in mind, in the Flash thread.....you're the one ignoring what's clearly stated on panel wink

abhilegend

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My original post still stands mad

Nope.

uhuh

Do you have the scans of Darkseid vs JLA though?

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol, fair enough.

But bear in mind, in the Flash thread.....you're the one ignoring what's clearly stated on panel wink

I won that debate.

abhilegend

Carver is drunk again it seems. Where the hell was wonder woman working both of them by strength. All she did against Zod was to re-direct his HV back at him and knee him while Superman was dealing with Faora.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
mad

I won that debate.

I'll meet you there in that thread.

carver9

Originally posted by abhilegend
Carver is drunk again it seems. Where the hell was wonder woman working both of them by strength. All she did against Zod was to re-direct his HV back at him and knee him while Superman was dealing with Faora.

Looks like a pimp punch to me.

http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/shogunofharlem1/media/Superman-WonderWoman2013-005-018_zpsc0831be2.jpg.html

They didn't land a single hit on Wondy...not one. She worked them. Sorry bro.

abhilegend

Interesting to see what Blue thinks of this. Wonder Woman couldn't even make Darkseid budge from behind with the lasso around his neck who then overpowered her with one hand.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11073419_JusticeLeague_6_TheGroup_006.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11073422_JusticeLeague_6_TheGroup_007.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11073423_JusticeLeague_6_TheGroup_010.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11073427_JusticeLeague_6_TheGroup_011.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11073429_JusticeLeague_6_TheGroup_012.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11073430_JusticeLeague_6_TheGroup_013.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11073434_JusticeLeague_6_TheGroup_014.jpg

"We need you. We need Superman."

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/11073454/JusticeLeague_6_TheGroup_015.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/11073456/JusticeLeague_6_TheGroup_016.jpg.html

Interesting choice of words batman, didn't you know that wonder woman was stronger than Superman there?

mmm

abhilegend

Originally posted by carver9
Looks like a pimp punch to me.

http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/shogunofharlem1/media/Superman-WonderWoman2013-005-018_zpsc0831be2.jpg.html

They didn't land a single hit on Wondy...not one. She worked them. Sorry bro.
That's because it was due to her skills, not strength. Superman punched them both away at the same moment.

i.imgur.com/VVtu3Sr.jpg

That's called a strength showing. Learn to differentiate between those.

Wonder Woman was more skilled than all of them, that's true. She didn't work both of them otherwise she would've won that round by her own. That's not what happened.

I heard Zod beats the shit out of Diana next time, only for Superman to finally cut loose and pushes his shit in on CBR bro. Have a tissue ready.

mhmm

carver9

She was baby sitting...of course she didn't win it on her own but when she fought the both of them, they got worked.

DarkSaint85

Go Abhi!

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/aozLvnA_460sa.gif

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by ares834

Uncuffed WW got beat by the First Born.
There is absolutely no reason to put her above the guy who wrecked Apollo.

Problem 1, already covered a page or more ago, is that the First Born beat Apollo, too.

Problem 2, worth mentioning, and why there is special note in my list, is that Superman only "wrecked" Apollo because Apollo's power
happens to exponentially increase Superman's own power, quite unlike First Born,
who, not having that same accident of birth and blessing, was forced to slog through everything Apollo dished out.

Note how the Superman/Apollo fight went prior to the sunburst from Apollo's eyes:

http://oi58.tinypic.com/20723aq.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/2eztmon.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/28bs1hl.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/2wn8rrt.jpg

Not TOO bad ...

Superman is casually swatted away, as I wrote earlier,
and Strife mocks Wonder Woman, but Superman gets out of the vat he's
been knocked into and scores a speedy high momentum punch that knocks Apollo off his feet.
Apollo seems more indignant than hurt, but it's still an impressive feat given what Apollo has endured to this point in DCnU without losing his footing.

But now, of course, Superman has been given a mega dose of yellow sun energy.

That's significant.
It's not some minor thing.

Even if we didn't have Superman's own narration in the next panel to guide us,
we can see how even a SMALL amount of sunlight has remarkable power-granting boosts for Kryptonians:

(The last two scans are the significant ones.
I largely include the rest for future reference and your reading enjoyment.)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://oi61.tinypic.com/r1zer4.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/2evapw0.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/vmyc8w.jpg

http://oi58.tinypic.com/4qfle8.jpg
http://oi58.tinypic.com/166k5x.jpg
http://oi62.tinypic.com/312cpbo.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/5ow3n5.jpg

Supergirl #4
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So just a few rays of sun recovers a Kryptonian who has been held at length in a stasis field near green kryptonite, of all things.
To the point where a high tech
security detail is nigh useless.

How much more so what Apollo delivered?

We are told in the narration:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
" ... hat sun. Whoa. Feels like I just drank a bucket of adrenaline.
I could bring this whole mountain down on this guy's head.
I could do it with one finger.

Easy. He might deserve it, but he's still her brother ... "
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://oi61.tinypic.com/2hn3rc0.jpg

abhilegend

Originally posted by carver9
She was baby sitting...of course she didn't win it on her own but when she fought the both of them, they got worked.
Ah classic carver again, she punched Zod a few times and that's how she worked him even though Zod never even punched her once. Tell me how hard Superman worked Diana here.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15217447_111.jpg

Or how powerful she is when Superman rescues her against Ocean Master who had her helpless in his tornado.

http://i.imgur.com/HsQVL3R.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xA0GDC2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Lts4c3N.jpg

"Superman is the most powerful being on planet." while Wonder Woman was standing right there. That's two statements in his favor.

She must've been baking some good sandwiches for him.

carver9

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ah classic carver again, she punched Zod a few times and that's how she worked him even though Zod never even punched her once. Tell me how hard Superman worked Diana here.

Or how powerful she is when Superman rescues her against Ocean Master who had her helpless in his tornado.

"Superman is the most powerful being on planet." while Wonder Woman was standing right there. That's two statements in his favor.

She must've been baking some good sandwiches for him.

Lol...you post a scan of Wonder Woman rapping Superman up in her lasso and her TALKING to him (instead of attacking), trying to help him, as some type of proof against my statement. Really?

Huh? First page, Wonder Woman beats on Faora and redirects Zod heat vision back at him. She burn Faoro face and flies over and punch Zod in the face. She tells Superman to handle Faora (since she is already damaged, etc) while she fights Zod. Zod breaks Superman arm while WW is handling Faora yet again. Wonder Woman then toss Faora to the side like a hush puppie (you know, the same Faora Superman is having a hard time against here and WW had to blitz over to save him...

http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/shogunofharlem1/media/Superman-WonderWoman2013-005-018_zpsc0831be2.jpg.html

Hahaha...wait, did you really post Ocean master trapping WW in THE SAME WHIRLPOOL HE TRAPPED THE JLA IN INCLUDING SUPERMAN. Did you really go there? Of course he saved her, since, well, he was in the vicinity. It's not like Superman was trapped in the same attack, freed himself and saved her. When Ocean Master attacked him, he was just as trapped as her.

abhilegend

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...you post a scan of Wonder Woman rapping Superman up in her lasso and her TALKING to him (instead of attacking), trying to help him, as some type of proof against my statement. Really? Yes, because that one bitchslap took her out of the fight and he easily broke out of her lasso which she can't do herself?

That's working them over? laughing out loud

carver9

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, because that one bitchslap took her out of the fight and he easily broke out of her lasso which she can't do herself?

That's working them over? laughing out loud

WTF are you talking about Superman having a hard time against Faora? He tossed her and Zod both aside at the same time.

i.imgur.com/VVtu3Sr.jpg

How many times do I have to show you that scan again?

Not the same whirlpool, Superman rescued her from the one which she couldn't get out of. You haven't actually read the issue, did you? So, him saving her and dispersing the tornado means he was just in vicinity? Hahaha, remind me why I'm talking to your superman hating agenda again?

I never argued or will argue if Superman.can punch a non fighting back Diana. I agree with you there buddy.

Wonder Woman had the advantage against them the entire fight, to the point where Zod took her threat seriously and didn't dispute her on her words of killing him. You're blind to it because it involves your boy. Remind me again why I am debating with you about Superman and Wonder Woman.

Lol...him tossing them to the side doesn't override everything else that happened during that issue. Zod broke his arm like a twig and did it easily and had him by the neck and was about to kill him until Zod was threatened by Wondy. Let this been Superman instead of Wonder Woman that did this, you would be all over it.

Prove that it isnt the same whirlpool that TRAPPED Superman. I'll be waiting.

abhilegend

Originally posted by carver9
I never argued or will argue if Superman.can punch a non fighting back Diana. I agree with you there buddy. Of course you did. Who said she wasn't fighting back? Its not like he suddenly attacked her, he was HVing her before that scene.

i.imgur.com/Be7PTOH

Superman didn't want to fight her and still took her out of the fight with a bitchslap.

You're taking "perhaps" too far. She had the advantage against Faora but never looked dominant against Zod. In fact that's why she sent Superman to fight Zod. Nah, I know what exactly happened. Wonder Woman looked peerish with Faora with far more skilled in combat and that's it. You're twisting it as if that proves Wonder Woman was stronger than Superman there. She was not. Your superman hate is legendary at this point though. Because you don't know how to read a scan.

Of course it does. It proves he was stronger than either of them. He broke his arm by his joint with both arms. That's a skill showing, not a strength showing. Zod was weaker than Superman yet dominated him with skill. Nah, because Superman regularly rescues her. She is a weakass anyway. Just look at Darkseid choking her when Superman rescues her.

Easy, superman dispersed this tornado while he couldn't do with the latter tornado. Obviously the second tornado was more powerful. But that's beyond your grasp. SMH.

carver9

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course you did. Who said she wasn't fighting back? Its not like he suddenly attacked her, he was HVing her before that scene.

i.imgur.com/Be7PTOH

Superman didn't want to fight her and still took her out of the fight with a bitchslap.

You're taking "perhaps" too far. She had the advantage against Faora but never looked dominant against Zod. In fact that's why she sent Superman to fight Zod. Nah, I know what exactly happened. Wonder Woman looked peerish with Faora with far more skilled in combat and that's it. You're twisting it as if that proves Wonder Woman was stronger than Superman there. She was not. Your superman hate is legendary at this point though. Because you don't know how to read a scan.

Of course it does. It proves he was stronger than either of them. He broke his arm by his joint with both arms. That's a skill showing, not a strength showing. Zod was weaker than Superman yet dominated him with skill. Nah, because Superman regularly rescues her. She is a weakass anyway. Just look at Darkseid choking her when Superman rescues her.

Easy, superman dispersed this tornado while he couldn't do with the latter tornado. Obviously the second tornado was more powerful. But that's beyond your grasp. SMH.

Lol...so her blocking heat vision and talking to him (again, instead of attacking when be was rapped up) is her fighting. You might as well post her fighting GL and Superman intervening and her kicking him across the city. Same crap.

I'm not taking perhaps any kind of way. Zod had Superman dead to rights and was going to kill him until WW threatened him. He backed down from her...even stop fighting (before this, they was all about taking out Superman until WW showed up). He knew what she was capable of to the point that he didn't want to fight anymore...the guy retreated. Yeah, he knew she meant what she said and she was capable of doing it. I never said WW is step.get than Superman...ok correction some issues that I seen in your post. You are clearly downplaying the ft.

Prove that he broke his arm by joint dislocation. Then, also explain to me (since Superman is so much stronger than Zod) how could Zod have Superman in the air with one hand, on the verge of killing him.

Lol...of course Superman can disperse an attack that isn't, well, attacking him. When he was hit by THE SAME ATTACK, he was helpless.

abhilegend

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...so her blocking heat vision and talking to him (again, instead of attacking when be was rapped up) is her fighting. Of course it is. Not at all. Superman didn't expect the attack and all it did was push him away. The bitchslap actually took her out of the fight before Eros defeated the sirens. You haven't actually read the story, have you?

Of course you are. Due to his warrior skills, nothing to do with strength. That's as wrong as it gets, he wasn't trying to kill superman. At least read the story, he backed down because Diana would've killed Faora. Because of a few punches when he doesn't even knows her name yet? You're laughable, he retreated because he didn't want Faora to get killed. When the **** did he ever say that? Perhaps doesn't means agreeing with someone, it means there can be a possibility. Good god. Oh shut up, I can see through your transparent agenda as clear as day. What are you trying to say here? That wonder woman was more skilled but weaker than Superman?

Can you read scans carter? He gripped his arm with both of his arms around that location and broke it. That's a classic way to illustrate breaking someone's arm by joints. Because Superman just had his arm broken carter. Superman wasn't even struggling to free his throat from Zod.

When he entered the tornado, it automatically attacked him. Have you ever went inside a twister? Same attack of different magnitude of power carter. Its like teaching rocket science to a child. Ocean master trapped diana in a tornado which Superman dispersed, Ocean Master created a tornado which had Superman helpless. In carter's world that means both were identical!!!

Good god. Pr was right, you actually hate superman. There can be no other explanation for such inane views as yours.

carver9

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...so her blocking heat vision and talking to him (again, instead of attacking when be was rapped up) is her fighting. You might as well post her fighting GL and Superman intervening and her kicking him across the city. Same crap.

I'm not taking perhaps any kind of way. Zod had Superman dead to rights and was going to kill him until WW threatened him. He backed down from her...even stop fighting (before this, they was all about taking out Superman until WW showed up). He knew what she was capable of to the point that he didn't want to fight anymore...the guy retreated. Yeah, he knew she meant what she said and she was capable of doing it. I never said WW is step.get than Superman...ok correction some issues that I seen in your post. You are clearly downplaying the ft.

Prove that he broke his arm by joint dislocation. Then, also explain to me (since Superman is so much stronger than Zod) how could Zod have Superman in the air with one hand, on the verge of killing him.

Lol...of course Superman can disperse an attack that isn't, well, attacking him. When he was hit by THE SAME ATTACK, he was helpless.

Meant to say...I never said WW is stronger or as strong as Superman. That dispute is for others but downplaying her fts...yes, I had to jump in.

abhilegend

Originally posted by carver9
Meant to say...I never said WW is stronger or as strong as Superman. That dispute is for others but downplaying her fts...yes, I had to jump in.
What downplaying of her feats? She did better than Superman because of her combination of strength and skill, that's clear as day and everybody agrees with it. But you had to demean Superman some more, so you jumped in. You're no fan of wonder woman, lets cut the BS.

bluewaterrider

Nearly exactly 2 years ago, on an entirely different non-KMC message boards, a poster presented Superman #6 as "proof"
that DCnU Superman was stronger than DCnU Supergirl.

I copied and pasted the page and e-mailed it to myself because it was an interesting discussion, quite long and involved.

The man's screen alias was Rainzo.

The following, re-edited now to fit KMC formatting, is one of the more pertinent messages sent in that exchange in response to him.

I'm breaking it into 2 posts for read-ability.
Keep in mind, again, though, this is from roughly 2 years ago.
Some things have changed since then, arguably demonstrably so.

Originally posted by rainzo

I simply don't get this!
Before the link was broken, we see the "Eradicator" giving Kara multiple punches before Lois starts screaming
"Superman!Stop! You're killing her!" pg. 6.
and that is when supergirl lands a hit on the "Eradicator".
True or False? Just re-read the entire comic and there was never a time when Supergirl dominated the battle whatsoever! When superman lost to this infestation, he wasnt over powered physically like supergirl was! And saying supergirl was shut down?
There is no prove to that! he grabs supergirl as she tries to punch him, blasts her with a beam blows her away
and super speed punches her ... that is called OVER POWERING!!
If the "Eradicator" had the power to shut "beings" down -which is just absurd- why didn't it do that to superman!
This "shutting supergirl" hypothesis is just -_-.
No offence to you guys though.

Originally posted by rainzo

I simply don't get this!

I know! That's why I'm here discussing this with you!

Originally posted by rainzo

Before the link was broken, we see the "Eradicator" giving Kara multiple punches

We do. Or at least it's heavily implied.

Originally posted by rainzo

Lois starts screaming "Superman!Stop! You're killing her!" pg. 6.

She does! Page 6! Just like you said!

Originally posted by rainzo

that is when supergirl lands a hit on the "Eradicator".

That is when Supergirl lands a hit on Eradicator!
She smacks him good!

Originally posted by rainzo

True or False.

It's true! Or true enough for MY tastes!
Maybe give or take a few seconds for him to scream beforehand, but true!

We are in agreement!

Originally posted by rainzo

Just re-read the entire comic and there was never a time
when Supergirl dominated the battle whatsoever!

There isn't! She's totally dominated by him!
Eradicator runs right over her!
He nearly, like, eradicated her and stuff ... !
Eradicator rules!!

Originally posted by rainzo

When Superman lost to this infestation, he wasn't over
powered physically like Supergirl was!

So, this is where we start having problems.

For starters, even in Superman form, Eradicator IS the infestation.
Proof is that he dissolves into a sort of "insect" mass at the end of his final battle with Superman.
But so is the beast in Superman #2 knocking Clark all over the city.
And so is the ice creature of Superman #3.
And so is the fire creature in Superman #1.
And so, too is the fake Clark fighting Kara.

All of these are the Eradicator. And at all times Eradicator is really this cloud of supernanobugs.

He doesn't betray the same properties as your run-of-the-mill brawler/flyer/tank.
He doesn't attack quite the same way.
He's not vulnerable to quite the same class of forces.

You're trying to equate Eradicator with some flying brick like Thor or Superman himself and saying Eradicator is a perfect stand-in for Superman.

He's not.

You're saying there is no "second layer" to his assault on either Kara or Kal.

There is. Kara even starts to tell Eradicator, thinking it is Superman, that he's nuts to think his "Heat Vision" will be an effective weapon against her.

To her surprise, it is.

Meanwhile, her own is almost ineffective against HIM.

Does that scene makes sense as a whole if Eradicator and Superman really ARE identically powered beings?

bluewaterrider

Part Two of the above post response to rainzo, or
"Does Superman #6 prove Superman is stronger than Supergirl?"

The answer is "No."

It does not.

Originally posted by rainzo

Supergirl was shut down? There is no prove to that!

It's "proof". Not "prove".

If you want to say there's no proof the "reconfigure" blast didn't shut Supergirl down
despite the fact that she doesn't fight back after that point, though she did at every previous point in the fight,
AND despite the fact that a reporter comments on her change in behavior ...?

Go ahead and say that.

But you need to admit that there is no proof that she wasn't shut down, either.
Especially when the Eradicator did the same thing to Superman for the better part of 2 issues:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Image will enlarge when clicked a 2nd time.)

http://oi61.tinypic.com/2yl0brn.jpg

Source: Superman #5
Writer: George Perez
Penciller: Nicola Scott
(Actual) Release Date: January 2012
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by rainzo

grabs Supergirl as she tries to punch him,
blasts her with a beam blows her away and super speed
punches her ... that is called OVER POWERING!!

In some contexts that is true.
But it's generally considered true where power is overcoming active resistance from another fighter.
There's no proof that Supergirl was actively resisting Eradicator at that point, and the reporter's comments seem to corroborate that.

You ask me to prove that Supergirl was being shut down?
Prove to me that Supergirl was actively fighting Eradicator after that "reconfigure" beam.

Originally posted by rainzo

If the "Eradicator" had the power to shut "beings" down
-which is just absurd- why didn't it do that to Superman!

Eradicator DID do that to Superman.

Why do you think Clark had those blackouts in Superman #4 and couldn't remember how he got from Smallville to Metropolis and other locales?
And that was BEFORE the near-COMPLETE takeover of him at the end of issue #4 and the bulk of Superman #5.

Originally posted by rainzo

This "shutting supergirl" hypothesis is just -_-.
No offence to you guys though.

I'm not offended.
But your statements are proof you haven't read Superman #s 4, 5, and 6.
If you did, you did not understand what you read, for you wouldn't be telling me Eradicator did NOT shut Superman down if you HAD read Superman 4 and 5,
because that is precisely what he did.

And no, I wouldn't swear on a Bible or anything, but

GIVEN that Eradicator shut Superman down in issues 4 and 5,
GIVEN that Supergirl alluded to the fact that ordinary Kryptonian heat vision should not significantly affect her and did,
GIVEN that Kara fought back before the "reconfigure" blast but did not do so afterward,
GIVEN that a reporter commented on her strange lack of resistance afterwards,
GIVEN that Eradicator made the comment on "reconfiguring matrix" right before that beam, saying the "alien girl" will "suffice",
reconfiguring matrix being what he said right before his take over of Clark at the end of Superman #4, and
GIVEN that Clark made it a point to say he had finally gotten control of Eradicator's nanotechnology himself,

yes, I feel fairly confident that Eradicator "shut Supergirl down" as all of the above clues of the arc suggests.

carver9

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course it is. Not at all. Superman didn't expect the attack and all it did was push him away. The bitchslap actually took her out of the fight before Eros defeated the sirens. You haven't actually read the story, have you?

Of course you are. Due to his warrior skills, nothing to do with strength. That's as wrong as it gets, he wasn't trying to kill superman. At least read the story, he backed down because Diana would've killed Faora. Because of a few punches when he doesn't even knows her name yet? You're laughable, he retreated because he didn't want Faora to get killed. When the **** did he ever say that? Perhaps doesn't means agreeing with someone, it means there can be a possibility. Good god. Oh shut up, I can see through your transparent agenda as clear as day. What are you trying to say here? That wonder woman was more skilled but weaker than Superman?

Can you read scans carter? He gripped his arm with both of his arms around that location and broke it. That's a classic way to illustrate breaking someone's arm by joints. Because Superman just had his arm broken carter. Superman wasn't even struggling to free his throat from Zod.

When he entered the tornado, it automatically attacked him. Have you ever went inside a twister? Same attack of different magnitude of power carter. Its like teaching rocket science to a child. Ocean master trapped diana in a tornado which Superman dispersed, Ocean Master created a tornado which had Superman helpless. In carter's world that means both were identical!!!

Good god. Pr was right, you actually hate superman. There can be no other explanation for such inane views as yours.

Lol...that was more than a push away and she did that while fighting another Herald. Wonder Woman, the Herald buster.

ABHI, I am going to say a statement to you and I want you to answer it for me. In a fight, I think I can beat you 10/10 without getting touched. Do you agree?

Also, she threatened Zod, not his girl. You are clearly making up stuff and with her threat, Zod did not deny that she was incapable of completing that task. Again I ask, if you and I got into a fight, I honestly believe I can crush that windpipe 10/10 without you touching me. Do you agree ABHIGAIL?

Nothing during that scene was showing as a joint dislocation. Good try though.

He froze the tornado from the OUTSIDE and then busted it open. When he was directly hit by the attack, he was immobilized. What's so hard to grasp? Move that brick wall out of the way.

I don't hate Superman but I do like WW and you discrediting her showing isn't going to go unnoticed my friend.

abhilegend

Who the **** cares? Eradicator nearly killed Supergirl and then Superman saved her and beat Eradicator in few attacks. The writer's intent was perfectly clear but hey lets take a interview and base all that stuff on it when the said writer turned on his own views.

And the official bio from her own comic.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/Supergirl-Zone-021_zpse83fde48.jpg

abhilegend

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...that was more than a push away and she did that while fighting another Herald. Wonder Woman, the Herald buster. So she beats hulk or Gladiator now? All she did was beat Faora, nothing more. A kryptonian with no feat at all.

Heh, you couldn't beat my 10 year old niece at your best day carter.

And he was more concerned about Faora. She said she would kill him and all he said was perhaps you could. That's not an agreement. That's not agreing either. He saw her able to beat Faora and thought perhaps she could do it to him too. But that's not what's being discussed here. Its about strength and at no point she looked better than Zod in strength. I would beat the shit out of you carter, don't delude yourself. Heck my dog can beat the shit out of you, perhaps. Heh, stealing nicknames now? That's the best you can do?

You need glasses. True story.

Nope, he dived through it and neutralized it. Different power lever caver. Shut the **** up, please.

Heh, you can't even lie straight. For years you've hated Superman, let me tell you one thing caver.

Superman isn't real.

emporerpants

Seriously guys? Are you for real internet tough guying it up on here? Talking about who between the two of you would win in an actual fight, sight unseen? It doesn't take a genius to know what is going to happen as soon as a mod sees this you guys.

bluewaterrider

Think most of my original list has now been covered and scan supported.

Orion has been included, bumping Superman at his normal levels down to #8 on my list for his strength feat
of hefting an aircraft carrier solo without visible strain,
whereas Superman even with Wonder Woman's help struggled,
and likewise for looking stronger in the rest of the fight in which that took place.

Orion's inclusion bumps Supergirl under Eddie Berganza, which presumably happens after Matt Idelsen's work on and announcement of the title until
Supergirl #12 in August 2012, down to the #10 spot.

Supergirl under Matt Idlesen retains her #6 position ahead of Orion, Superman, Black Adam, and herself after Idlesen.

Aquaman, for now, is dropped from the list entirely.

1. Wonder Woman (uncuffed)

-- beat the goddess Artemis with ease
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2i05643.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/sl38m8.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/514hlt.jpg

-- impressed the god Apollo
http://oi59.tinypic.com/2lnxty.jpg

2. Superman (suncharged/sundipped)

-- beat the god Apollo

http://oi58.tinypic.com/20723aq.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/2eztmon.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/28bs1hl.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/2wn8rrt.jpg

Parallel reminder of the effects of even low-level sunlight on DCnU Kryptonians
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://oi61.tinypic.com/r1zer4.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/2evapw0.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/vmyc8w.jpg

http://oi58.tinypic.com/4qfle8.jpg
http://oi58.tinypic.com/166k5x.jpg
http://oi62.tinypic.com/312cpbo.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/5ow3n5.jpg

Supergirl #4
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
" ... hat sun. Whoa. Feels like I just drank a bucket of adrenaline.
I could bring this whole mountain down on this guy's head.
I could do it with one finger.

Easy. He might deserve it, but he's still her brother ... "
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://oi61.tinypic.com/2hn3rc0.jpg

3. Apollo

-- swatted Superman away like a pest
(until accidentally supercharging Clark with concentrated sunlight)
http://oi58.tinypic.com/20723aq.jpg

-- beat cuffed Wonder Woman
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2z4zkld.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/akkcr7.jpg

4. Martian Manhunter

-- judging from JL8, held his own against the Justice League single-handedly
http://oi58.tinypic.com/1fwb2w.jpg

5. Wonder Woman (cuffed)

-- historically lacks Kryptonian-level durability, which is often wrongly held against her as lacking pure physical strength

Diana versus Cheetah, Wonder Woman v2 #9
http://oi57.tinypic.com/k2b5et.jpg

Diana versus Doomsday
(Impactbreak. Non-invulnerable bones shatter.)
http://oi60.tinypic.com/110he9s.jpg

-- holds back even at standard levels against many opponents

Surprised teammates ponder DCnU Wondy's skirmish with Cheetah
http://oi58.tinypic.com/1zq7wc5.jpg

-- outmatched by the god Apollo
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2z4zkld.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/akkcr7.jpg

-- outmatched by the goddess Artemis

http://oi61.tinypic.com/1zekxt3.jpg
http://oi58.tinypic.com/2w6hvm9.jpg

http://oi62.tinypic.com/2q1xi75.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/x3y8bb.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/4vgth1.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/296c6r5.jpg

Diana versus Artemis. Cuffed reSiberia.

http://oi58.tinypic.com/28tgz9y.jpg
http://oi62.tinypic.com/deoeah.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/5e8f94.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/2h565c9.jpg

(Note: The last scan is missing a panel, just before the last panel, where Diana says "I swear",
and where Artemis is in her shining "Deer Woman" form, still holding Diana in the same position as she was in bear form.)

-- overpowers Faora
Certain fights suggest physical strength is the reason for a victor's victory quite powerfully.
Example:
Diana versus Hercules
http://oi61.tinypic.com/wqzc5g.jpg
The kind of combat above measures strength pretty directly, and is more or less
a hand grip/body strength test.

Notice the parallel in the fight against Faora.
This looks nearly EXACTLY like that kind of grip strength test,
with Faora struggling to control Wonder Woman's sword.

Interestingly, Faora is using 2 hands for this (you can tell because both hands shown grasping the hilt of the sword have gloves on)
http://oi60.tinypic.com/2cgfwqx.jpg
while we've only on this page seen Wonder Woman use one.

Diana holds her own with Zod close-fighting, though Clark will get summarily wrecked trying the same thing, and when Diana goes back to Faora ...
http://oi62.tinypic.com/73nkb5.jpg
... we see Diana seem to get the better of Faora in another grappling contest,
apparently successfully getting a choke on Faora started at the end of it,
hold Faora at bay while negotiating with Zod for Clark,
and lightly toss Faora away.

-- holds own with Zod
http://oi60.tinypic.com/2n0qvl.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/x573ps.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/27xpfcz.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/8voj8l.jpg

-- overpowers Supergirl
http://oi58.tinypic.com/2ur0zcz.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/2lsdshf.jpg

6. Supergirl (Matt Idelsen)

-- displays power greater than Superman had at the age she is from the moment she arrives on Earth
http://oi62.tinypic.com/2djleg.jpg
-- held as most powerful by WorldKillers DESPITE their knowing Superman is also on Earth
http://oi62.tinypic.com/bhyg43.jpg
-- apparently possesses the innate ability to create self-empowering/repowering light energy
http://oi61.tinypic.com/jugub5.jpg

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Issue #2 pages were shown, and it includes the first time Supergirl meets her cousin, Superman.
"There's a certain distrust," Asrar said with a laugh as a slide was shown where Supergirl punches Superman.

"She's actually stronger than Kal-El," Idelson said.
Johnson said, "She came out of that pod ready to go, as people noticed," he said.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.newsarama.com/8536-nycc-2011-dc-all-access-superman-panel.html

7. Orion

-- hefted an aircraft carrier solo without apparent strain;
earlier Superman and Wonder Woman together struggled with one to save a city.

http://oi58.tinypic.com/2ajyr82.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/14v69p0.jpg

-- looked stronger than Superman in their fight

http://oi59.tinypic.com/jqlypv.jpg
http://oi62.tinypic.com/24liff9.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/6jhlj4.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/29fz6ro.jpg

http://oi61.tinypic.com/6o0jtt.jpg
http://oi58.tinypic.com/213ge9g.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/rvao9d.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/50l5y1.jpg

8. Superman

-- has his arm broken casually by Zod, though Zod does not do the same against Wonder Woman

http://oi62.tinypic.com/29usvn7.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/6y16b8.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/2e1d8ow.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/209r4ed.jpg

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2n0qvl.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/x573ps.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/27xpfcz.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/8voj8l.jpg

9. Black Adam
-- beaten by Ultraman who is, presumably, the rough equal of Superman

10. Supergirl (Eddie Berganza)

carver9

Nothing against ABHI, I actually like the guy. I can't believe he wasn't getting the metaphore I was throwing at him. He should know I wouldn't outright threaten him with fight questions unless I have a motive and he helped me with my motive.

bluewaterrider

Including a semi-duplicate in URL format.

Because I'm not sure what happens to non-KMC hyperlinks when threads get archived. I know official KMC hyperlinks disappear, but ...

Think most of my original list has now been covered and scan supported.

Orion has been included, bumping Superman at his normal levels down to #8 on my list for his strength feat
of hefting an aircraft carrier solo without visible strain,
whereas Superman even with Wonder Woman's help struggled,
and likewise for looking stronger in the rest of the fight in which that took place.

Orion's inclusion bumps Supergirl under Eddie Berganza, which presumably happens after Matt Idelsen's work on and announcement of the title until
Supergirl #12 in August 2012, down to the #10 spot.

Supergirl under Matt Idlesen retains her #6 position ahead of Orion, Superman, Black Adam, and herself after Idlesen.

Aquaman, for now, is dropped from the list entirely.

1. Wonder Woman (uncuffed)

-- beat the goddess Artemis with ease
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2i05643.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/sl38m8.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/514hlt.jpg

-- impressed the god Apollo
http://oi59.tinypic.com/2lnxty.jpg

2. Superman (suncharged/sundipped)

-- beat the god Apollo

http://oi58.tinypic.com/20723aq.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/2eztmon.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/28bs1hl.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/2wn8rrt.jpg

Parallel reminder of the effects of even low-level sunlight on DCnU Kryptonians
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://oi61.tinypic.com/r1zer4.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/2evapw0.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/vmyc8w.jpg

http://oi58.tinypic.com/4qfle8.jpg
http://oi58.tinypic.com/166k5x.jpg
http://oi62.tinypic.com/312cpbo.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/5ow3n5.jpg

Supergirl #4
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
" ... hat sun. Whoa. Feels like I just drank a bucket of adrenaline.
I could bring this whole mountain down on this guy's head.
I could do it with one finger.

Easy. He might deserve it, but he's still her brother ... "
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://oi61.tinypic.com/2hn3rc0.jpg

3. Apollo

-- swatted Superman away like a pest
(until accidentally supercharging Clark with concentrated sunlight)
http://oi58.tinypic.com/20723aq.jpg

-- beat cuffed Wonder Woman
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2z4zkld.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/akkcr7.jpg

4. Martian Manhunter

-- judging from JL8, held his own against the Justice League single-handedly
http://oi58.tinypic.com/1fwb2w.jpg

5. Wonder Woman (cuffed)

-- historically lacks Kryptonian-level durability, which is often wrongly held against her as lacking pure physical strength

Diana versus Cheetah, Wonder Woman v2 #9
http://oi57.tinypic.com/k2b5et.jpg

Diana versus Doomsday
(Impactbreak. Non-invulnerable bones shatter.)
http://oi60.tinypic.com/110he9s.jpg

-- holds back even at standard levels against many opponents

Surprised teammates ponder DCnU Wondy's skirmish with Cheetah
http://oi58.tinypic.com/1zq7wc5.jpg

-- outmatched by the god Apollo
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2z4zkld.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/akkcr7.jpg

-- outmatched by the goddess Artemis

http://oi61.tinypic.com/1zekxt3.jpg
http://oi58.tinypic.com/2w6hvm9.jpg

http://oi62.tinypic.com/2q1xi75.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/x3y8bb.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/4vgth1.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/296c6r5.jpg

Diana versus Artemis. Cuffed reSiberia.

http://oi58.tinypic.com/28tgz9y.jpg
http://oi62.tinypic.com/deoeah.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/5e8f94.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/2h565c9.jpg

(Note: The last scan is missing a panel, just before the last panel, where Diana says "I swear",
and where Artemis is in her shining "Deer Woman" form, still holding Diana in the same position as she was in bear form.)

-- overpowers Faora
Certain fights suggest physical strength is the reason for a victor's victory quite powerfully.
Example:
Diana versus Hercules
http://oi61.tinypic.com/wqzc5g.jpg
The kind of combat above measures strength pretty directly, and is more or less
a hand grip/body strength test.

Notice the parallel in the fight against Faora.
This looks nearly EXACTLY like that kind of grip strength test,
with Faora struggling to control Wonder Woman's sword.

Interestingly, Faora is using 2 hands for this (you can tell because both hands shown grasping the hilt of the sword have gloves on)
http://oi60.tinypic.com/2cgfwqx.jpg
while we've only on this page seen Wonder Woman use one.

Diana holds her own with Zod close-fighting, though Clark will get summarily wrecked trying the same thing, and when Diana goes back to Faora ...
http://oi62.tinypic.com/73nkb5.jpg
... we see Diana seem to get the better of Faora in another grappling contest,
apparently successfully getting a choke on Faora started at the end of it,
hold Faora at bay while negotiating with Zod for Clark,
and lightly toss Faora away.

-- holds own with Zod
http://oi60.tinypic.com/2n0qvl.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/x573ps.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/27xpfcz.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/8voj8l.jpg

-- overpowers Supergirl
http://oi58.tinypic.com/2ur0zcz.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/2lsdshf.jpg

6. Supergirl (Matt Idelsen)

-- displays power greater than Superman had at the age she is from the moment she arrives on Earth
http://oi62.tinypic.com/2djleg.jpg
-- held as most powerful by WorldKillers DESPITE their knowing Superman is also on Earth
http://oi62.tinypic.com/bhyg43.jpg
-- apparently possesses the innate ability to create self-empowering/repowering light energy
http://oi61.tinypic.com/jugub5.jpg

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Issue #2 pages were shown, and it includes the first time Supergirl meets her cousin, Superman.
"There's a certain distrust," Asrar said with a laugh as a slide was shown where Supergirl punches Superman.

"She's actually stronger than Kal-El," Idelson said.
Johnson said, "She came out of that pod ready to go, as people noticed," he said.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.newsarama.com/8536-nycc-2011-dc-all-access-superman-panel.html

7. Orion

-- hefted an aircraft carrier solo without apparent strain;
earlier Superman and Wonder Woman together struggled with one to save a city.

http://oi58.tinypic.com/2ajyr82.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/14v69p0.jpg

-- looked stronger than Superman in their fight

http://oi59.tinypic.com/jqlypv.jpg
http://oi62.tinypic.com/24liff9.jpg
http://oi61.tinypic.com/6jhlj4.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/29fz6ro.jpg

http://oi61.tinypic.com/6o0jtt.jpg
http://oi58.tinypic.com/213ge9g.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/rvao9d.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/50l5y1.jpg

8. Superman

-- has his arm broken casually by Zod, though Zod does not do the same against Wonder Woman

http://oi62.tinypic.com/29usvn7.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/6y16b8.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/2e1d8ow.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/209r4ed.jpg

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2n0qvl.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/x573ps.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/27xpfcz.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/8voj8l.jpg

9. Black Adam
-- beaten by Ultraman who is, presumably, the rough equal of Superman

10. Supergirl (Eddie Berganza)

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
He should know I wouldn't outright threaten him with fight questions unless I have a motive and he helped me with my motive.

Carter Prime, with prep.

carver9

I dont understand DC and their logic. They have deemed too many people as the most powerful on the planet and these are people that I only know about, could be more.

They have said...

Apollo (not the god version of Apollo)
Aquaman
Superman
Superboy
Supergirl
Martian Manhunter
Kyle

...as the most powerful being on the planet. DC seems confused. They are currently all over the place.

abhilegend

Originally posted by emporerpants
Seriously guys? Are you for real internet tough guying it up on here? Talking about who between the two of you would win in an actual fight, sight unseen? It doesn't take a genius to know what is going to happen as soon as a mod sees this you guys.
Well Carver started it.Originally posted by carver9
I'm not saying that as a threat, I am trying to prove a point. Zod didnt deny that WW could beat/kill him. I said the same thing to ABHI that WW said to Zod and ABHI answered the question in an obvious approach. He said that he could beat me. Had confidence in his strength. Originally posted by carver9
Nothing against ABHI, I actually like the guy. I can't believe he wasn't getting the metaphore I was throwing at him. He should know I wouldn't outright threaten him with fight questions unless I have a motive and he helped me with my motive.
Are you always this clueless?

BTW, does everyone gets a good laugh at everytime Blue posts, or is it just me? The poor guy works so hard to lowball superman, its kinda funny and sad at the same time.

Bentley

@Abhi: The "he started" defense stoped working when we were toddlers!

Originally posted by carver9
He should know I wouldn't outright threaten him with fight questions unless I have a motive and he helped me with my motive.

You're one dishonest poster ahah

Golgo13

Originally posted by carver9
I dont understand DC and their logic. They have deemed too many people as the most powerful on the planet and these are people that I only know about, could be more.

They have said...

Apollo (not the god version of Apollo)
Aquaman
Superman
Superboy
Supergirl
Martian Manhunter
Kyle

...as the most powerful being on the planet. DC seems confused. They are currently all over the place.

Don't forget Captain Atom, Firestorm, and Swamp Thing have said similar things.

abhilegend

Originally posted by Bentley
@Abhi: The "he started" defense stoped working when we were toddlers!

You're one dishonest poster ahah
Who says we aren't toddlers at this point?

Huh, huh?

-Pr-

Abhi, Carver and Blue should all put each other on ignore at this point. I thought we had this conversation already...

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by -Pr-
Abhi, Carver and Blue should all put each other on ignore at this point. I thought we had this conversation already...

Pr, please show me where I've said anything attacking anyone at this point.

SasuOna

Superman definitely isn't the most powerful in the DCNU
Hell the way Justice League 3000 is going that nerfed Superman clone might actually end up stronger than him.

Also someone should put Costantine somewhere on that list. His DCNU feats make him pretty high tier currently

carver9

Originally posted by Golgo13
Don't forget Captain Atom, Firestorm, and Swamp Thing have said similar things.

Forgot about that. They were deemed as the most powerful on the planet. If I had to give it to anyone, it would probably be Captain Atom. Right now, the guy can do anything.

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by ares834

Uncuffed WW got beat by the First Born.

Somehow that did not get shown.
Correcting that now:

http://oi62.tinypic.com/211mnvq.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/f432wg.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/2ivcis8.jpg

-Pr-

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Pr, please show me where I've said anything attacking anyone at this point.

I don't consider you as bad as either of them, but I don't think it's fair that Abhi should have to ignore you without you doing the same. That way there's even less chance of interaction.

Same goes for Carver.

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

9. Black Adam
-- beaten by Ultraman who is, presumably, the rough equal of Superman

This may have to be re-evaluated.

Ultraman, after getting a dose of kryptonite may exceed the power of the average Kryptonian, much in the way that Superman after sundipping does.

It's a little hard to reconcile the relatively good performance of Billy Batson against Clark versus Black Adam here against Ultraman, if such is NOT taken into account:

http://oi60.tinypic.com/20958k3.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/288w1at.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/28t9sia.jpg

Ultimately, I'm giving Superman the nod because that lab simulated "Earth-Bench" feat,
in the absence of other direct comparisons with the Syndicate, theoretically outweighs Ultraman's move of Earth's moon.

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't consider you as bad as either of them, but I don't think it's fair that Abhi should have to ignore you without you doing the same.
That way there's even less chance of interaction.

Same goes for Carver.

I imagine Abhi creates quite a bit of content for discussion, but I've actually been using the KMC "Ignore" feature on our user control panel
for Abhi since I told him he wouldn't have to worry about being addressed by me directly back in 2012 without an apology.

I examine a random post every so often, though.
No real reason not to.
Periodically I'll even take him off, though generally put him back on soon afterwards, if only to avoid the temptation of going back on my word in any identifiable way.

Even the relating of that Rainzo conversation doesn't have me addressing Abhi directly by name; thus keeping the letter of my word,
but I DID feel obligated to include that much for him, quite unlike any other time, because I saw Abhi paid me the unexpected kindness of answering my question over in the "Comic Book Questions" thread a little time prior.

It's viewable whether or not you have Abhi on ignore by looking at Golgo's response on the following page:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=346614&pagenumber=544

featuring the following image:

http://i.imgur.com/3BQ78xd.jpg

which can be none other than an answer to my question about the Fawcett Captain Marvel Family, and the completion of the scan I was asking about a page or so earlier.

I genuinely appreciated that, and took it as an olive branch on his part.

(Still wonder where Abhi got that from, Fawcett material seems to be hard to come by these days ...)

At an rate, whether I addressed him by name or not (as it is, I did not),
I figured his kindness of answering one of my questions warranted my addressing one of his;
anyone who doubts that can search for any instance where I've spoken to Abhi in any thread since Summer 2012 outside of that.

On the other hand, without violating anything I said more than a year and a half ago, I have little objection to answering just about any question I deem a reasonable and warranted one if presented civilly.