Be careful,,,,,,

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by Digi

I'd like to know where fact checked his post.
That hypertension stat alone is false, and easily proven so with a Google search.

I disagree.

Consider the actual statistics, the idea behind the teaching, and what eninn actually seems to be trying to warn against.

His real premise is that the long term effect of a poor diet is bad health and high blood pressure, correct?

Try actually following the CDC (Center for Disease Control) stats long term.

What is happening as people keep to their unhealthy diets over the course of years and decades, something sensible, lifelong daily religious practice should theoretically correct?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.. Age..........Men (%)..........Women (%)
20-34..........11.1................6.8
35-44..........25.1................19.0
45-54..........37.1................35.2
55-64..........54.0................53.3
65-74..........64.0................69.3
75-xx..........66.7................78.5
All-yy..........34.1................32.7
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.cdc.gov/bloodpressure/facts.htm

Looks an awful lot like the 50% eninn claimed in his original post, doesn't it?

In fact, as the ages go up, those numbers start to trend closer to 2/3rds or even 3/4ths of the population.

50% actually starts to look conservative once you get high enough ...

Stealth Moose

But that's not what he said. His poorly researched or poorly related post indicated that at least 1 in 2 Americans have hypertension, which is bogus except when you impose certain conditions.

In any case, a lot of commercially available foods are bad for us. But that's not why eninn wants us to stop eating bacon. Hint: It's because some holy book told him to tell us to stop.

I like that eninn, despite not trying to get to know any of us at all, is desperately trying to save our souls from bacon.

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/8a/1f/cf/8a1fcf15e2169e5fcfaf31b4667a91a5.jpg

Stealth Moose

Originally posted by siriuswriter
BACON!

http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii575/bookiekatherine/kevin-bacon-0808-medium-new.jpg

Oh... wait.

Now I feel bad that I missed The Following this week.

siriuswriter

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Now I feel bad that I missed The Following this week.

You missed out on a chance for BACON?!

Shame on you! eninn is clearly a bad influence.

Digi

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I disagree.

Consider the actual statistics, the idea behind the teaching, and what eninn actually seems to be trying to warn against.

His real premise is that the long term effect of a poor diet is bad health and high blood pressure, correct?

Try actually following the CDC (Center for Disease Control) stats long term.

What is happening as people keep to their unhealthy diets over the course of years and decades, something sensible, lifelong daily religious practice should theoretically correct?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.. Age..........Men (%)..........Women (%)
20-34..........11.1................6.8
35-44..........25.1................19.0
45-54..........37.1................35.2
55-64..........54.0................53.3
65-74..........64.0................69.3
75-xx..........66.7................78.5
All-yy..........34.1................32.7
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.cdc.gov/bloodpressure/facts.htm

Looks an awful lot like the 50% eninn claimed in his original post, doesn't it?

In fact, as the ages go up, those numbers start to trend closer to 2/3rds or even 3/4ths of the population.

50% actually starts to look conservative once you get high enough ...

The link you posted has 31% as it's very first fact, in incredibly certain terms. That's what I was referring to. Go ahead and only count senior citizens if it wins you fake internet points in a debate with me. But your own logic is refuted by the link you posted, and eninn clearly didn't even attempt this level of inquiry. So...

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
In any case, a lot of commercially available foods are bad for us. But that's not why eninn wants us to stop eating bacon. Hint: It's because some holy book told him to tell us to stop.

This is really the heart of the matter. Technical veracity is secondary.

Mindship

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
baconThere was this cable show on a few months back, probably the only show I ever watched on Food TV (well, except for "Nigella Bites" wink

. It was called, "The United States of Bacon." The host, a somewhat rotund fellow, traveled the country, exploring eateries/restaurants with fabulous bacon dishes.

I haven't seen the show on in a while. He may've died.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Mindship
There was this cable show on a few months back, probably the only show I ever watched on Food TV (well, except for "Nigella Bites" wink

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by Stealth Moose

I like that eninn ... is desperately trying to save our souls from bacon.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose

... despite not trying to get to know any of us at all ...

What bearing would knowing you in greater depth have on eninn's sharing helpful information with others?

Do you need to know a great deal about people before you can share knowledge?
Would the New York Times have become a multi-million dollar industry if its staff writers, copy editors, and publishers needed to know each customer personally?

Under exactly what circumstances does the premise "You must know me before you can help me" work to the exclusion of the reverse?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose

a lot of commercially available foods are bad for us. But that's not why eninn wants us to stop eating bacon ... It's because some holy book told him to tell us to stop.

To do good, a person must be a generalist, not a specialist?
Is that what you're arguing here? Because a lot of foods are bad for us
no one can argue against one type of food until they cover all the rest?

Does that really make good sense to you?

To use an analogy, answer for me whether you'd decry a firefighter, who, called at work, failed to do more than forward you to the nearest police station
when you tried to report a burglary in progress?
Would you do that?
Or would you more than likely thank him or her for directing you to people who not only CAN aid you in stopping that robbery
but are actually paid and trained specifically to do so?

Further on that note, addressing the book issue:

The police, if they responded to your call, would respond to the situation by following the program of a book THEY read and studied.

More likely than not, those officers wouldn't know you from Eninn.

Would they be more effective in doing their job if they DID know that you like to take long walks on the beach, that you have a cat named Sam Spade, or that your favorite color is blue?

Does the simple fact that people have a book to guide them to action that benefits others mean they are devoid of good intentions?

Shakyamunison

bluewaterrider
Stop eating bacon! Now! No more bacon for you! And ham? No more ham for you!

All because a religious book, that you do not believe is the word of GOD, tells you not too.

Digi

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
What bearing would knowing you in greater depth have on eninn's sharing helpful information with others?

Do you need to know a great deal about people before you can share knowledge?
Would the New York Times have become a multi-million dollar industry if its staff writers, copy editors, and publishers needed to know each customer personally?

Under exactly what circumstances does the premise "You must know me before you can help me" work to the exclusion of the reverse?

It's pretty obvious that he's just talking about eninn's penchant for preaching instead of engaging in discourse like the rest of us. Did you really not gather this from the context? It's an observation mentioned in jest, not a scholarly journal.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Further on that note, addressing the book issue:

The police, if they responded to your call, would respond to the situation by following the program of a book THEY read and studied.

More likely than not, those officers wouldn't know you from Eninn.

Would they be more effective in doing their job if they DID know that you like to take long walks on the beach, that you have a cat named Sam Spade, or that your favorite color is blue?

Does the simple fact that people have a book to guide them to action that benefits others mean they are devoid of good intentions?

This is being needlessly nit-picky, again. All he was saying is that the health concerns aren't the reason he made this thread. It's because he was told it was wrong by a book, and hasn't scrutinized the claim beyond that. Do you disagree with that assessment? Do you think eninn has rationally researched the subject? Or is he parroting something based on blind faith? I'm pretty sure your answers will be in agreement with mine. So why this ridiculous hypothetical? If he knew he'd be dealing with your example here, designed specifically to break down a comment intended for a different person and post, I'm sure he would have been more exact.

And beyond that, everything in this thread has been with some humorous sarcasm, until you. Are you incapable of detecting the tone of the posts and seeing them for what they are - light-hearted jabs at fundamentalist thinking? Or do you really, really want to break them down like they're thesis statements?

Be absolutist if you want. You're ignoring the context in which the comments were made and contributing nothing productive.

Stealth Moose

Originally posted by siriuswriter
You missed out on a chance for BACON?!

Shame on you! eninn is clearly a bad influence.

Especially given that All of Hollywood is tainted by Bacon! Also, I love that site.

Originally posted by Digi
It's pretty obvious that he's just talking about eninn's penchant for preaching instead of engaging in discourse like the rest of us. Did you really not gather this from the context? It's an observation mentioned in jest, not a scholarly journal.

This is being needlessly nit-picky, again. All he was saying is that the health concerns aren't the reason he made this thread. It's because he was told it was wrong by a book, and hasn't scrutinized the claim beyond that. Do you disagree with that assessment? Do you think eninn has rationally researched the subject? Or is he parroting something based on blind faith? I'm pretty sure your answers will be in agreement with mine. So why this ridiculous hypothetical? If he knew he'd be dealing with your example here, designed specifically to break down a comment intended for a different person and post, I'm sure he would have been more exact.

And beyond that, everything in this thread has been with some humorous sarcasm, until you. Are you incapable of detecting the tone of the posts and seeing them for what they are - light-hearted jabs at fundamentalist thinking? Or do you really, really want to break them down like they're thesis statements?

Be absolutist if you want. You're ignoring the context in which the comments were made and contributing nothing productive.

thumb up

BWR's attempts to white-knight eninn are adorable, especially given that he's the only person eninn ever mentions by name.

Could be that they go to the same mosque together or something.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Especially given that All of Hollywood is tainted by Bacon! Also, I love that site.

thumb up

BWR's attempts to white-knight eninn are adorable, especially given that he's the only person eninn ever mentions by name.

Could be that they go to the same mosque together or something.

He also has an hard-on for you. stick out tongue

Stealth Moose

What can I say? I'm secksy.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
What can I say? I'm secksy.

laughing out loud

Bacon! Bacon! Bacon!

eninn

Consider the actual statistics, the idea behind the teaching, and what eninn actually seems to be trying to warn against.

His real premise is that the long term effect of a poor diet is bad health and high blood pressure, correct?

Try actually following the CDC (Center for Disease Control) stats long term.

What is happening as people keep to their unhealthy diets over the course of years and decades, something sensible, lifelong daily religious practice should theoretically correct?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.. Age..........Men (%)..........Women (%)
20-34..........11.1................6.8
35-44..........25.1................19.0
45-54..........37.1................35.2
55-64..........54.0................53.3
65-74..........64.0................69.3
75-xx..........66.7................78.5
All-yy..........34.1................32.7
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.cdc.gov/bloodpressure/facts.htm

Looks an awful lot like the 50% eninn claimed in his original post, doesn't it?

In fact, as the ages go up, those numbers start to trend closer to 2/3rds or even 3/4ths of the population.

50% actually starts to look conservative once you get high enough ...

=

What bearing would knowing you in greater depth have on eninn's sharing helpful information with others?

Do you need to know a great deal about people before you can share knowledge?
Would the New York Times have become a multi-million dollar industry if its staff writers, copy editors, and publishers needed to know each customer personally?

Under exactly what circumstances does the premise "You must know me before you can help me" work to the exclusion of the reverse?

To do good, a person must be a generalist, not a specialist?
Is that what you're arguing here? Because a lot of foods are bad for us
no one can argue against one type of food until they cover all the rest?

Does that really make good sense to you?

To use an analogy, answer for me whether you'd decry a firefighter, who, called at work, failed to do more than forward you to the nearest police station
when you tried to report a burglary in progress?
Would you do that?
Or would you more than likely thank him or her for directing you to people who not only CAN aid you in stopping that robbery
but are actually paid and trained specifically to do so?

Further on that note, addressing the book issue:

The police, if they responded to your call, would respond to the situation by following the program of a book THEY read and studied.

More likely than not, those officers wouldn't know you from Eninn.

Would they be more effective in doing their job if they DID know that you like to take long walks on the beach, that you have a cat named Sam Spade, or that your favorite color is blue?

Does the simple fact that people have a book to guide them to action that benefits others mean they are devoid of good intentions?

thank you dear brother

==

Could be that they go to the same mosque together or something.

i wish this

===

daar brothers

Muslims do not eat pork

Feel nauseous

There is no difference between deep freezing and normal cooking.
Result is the same

This is the main reason for the prohibition of pork in the three monotheistic religions

to see pork after placing cola
See What's in your tummy O eat pork
you will feel nauseous

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQVHZ3Xo9Fc

and pork are the sanctity of God in Islamic law,

and spoke of that Prophet Muhammad 1400 years

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0NRf0xIXRQ

Lord Lucien

Originally posted by eninn
Consider the actual statistics, the idea behind the teaching, and what eninn actually seems to be trying to warn against. It talks in the third person, precious.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
It talks in the third person, precious.

We think that is very strange. laughing out loud

It does support an idea I had some time ago; eninn is not just one person, but instead is a group of people using one membership. Kind of a reverse sock.

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
We think that is very strange. laughing out loud

It does support an idea I had some time ago; eninn is not just one person, but instead is a group of people using one membership. Kind of a reverse sock.

mmm What's the term for the comedy trio formed by yourself, Lucien, and Stealth Moose?

It's fairly obvious to anyone familiar with how the KMC writing program works that eninn simply has not had practice with use of KMC's "Quote" feature.

He's trying to use standard "copy and paste" protocol, which doesn't make a fine enough distinction between your words and someone else's words to understand without careful reading.

Lord Lucien

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
mmm What's the term for the comedy trio formed by yourself, Lucien, and Stealth Moose? The Dark Triad.

Stealth Moose

I called Machiavellianism.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I called Machiavellianism.

The Christians are the only ones around here with a king.

eninn

dear brothers

The pig is one of the filthiest animals on earth. It lives and thrives on muck, faeces and dirt. It is the best scavenger that I know that God has produced. In the villages they dont have modern toilets and the villagers excrete in the open air. Very often excreta is cleared by pigs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhcCt8AgpPk

Stealth Moose

Originally posted by eninn
dear brothers

The pig is one of the filthiest animals on earth. It lives and thrives on muck, faeces and dirt. It is the best scavenger that I know that God has produced. In the villages they dont have modern toilets and the villagers excrete in the open air. Very often excreta is cleared by pigs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhcCt8AgpPk

But I don't get my bacon from third world villages.

I get them from a super market, and most of our bacon is produced stateside.

Have you considered trying cleaner pigs from the US?

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
But I don't get my bacon from third world villages.

I get them from a super market, and most of our bacon is produced stateside.

Have you considered trying cleaner pigs from the US?

No wander he doesn't like pig. I wouldn't eat pig from his home land ether.

eninn buy US pork.

Stealth Moose

I wonder what he thinks is appropriate fertilizer for crops, given that pigs are disgusting for ingesting feces. This is all the more ironic because most Muslim countries which are third world still wipe with their left hand.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I wonder what he thinks is appropriate fertilizer for crops, given that pigs are disgusting for ingesting feces. This is all the more ironic because most Muslim countries which are third world still wipe with their left hand.

However, we first world nations have a bad habit of feeding cows to cows. We just all have to be smarter.

Stealth Moose

I think the idea of dietary restrictions on behalf of God is pretty retarded. I mean, an all-powerful Creator can just make pigs non-edible. Problem solved.

If homosexuality bothers him, just make it not happen.

If sin is bad, make that not happen too.

I also enjoy the idea that nature gives us insight into God's mind, except when it contradicts scripture, in which case man is somehow to blame or it's unnatural. And ignoring that nature consists of animals killing, eating, and ****ing each other without any moral consideration.

#lolreligiouslogic.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I think the idea of dietary restrictions on behalf of God is pretty retarded. I mean, an all-powerful Creator can just make pigs non-edible. Problem solved.

If homosexuality bothers him, just make it not happen.

If sin is bad, make that not happen too.

I also enjoy the idea that nature gives us insight into God's mind, except when it contradicts scripture, in which case man is somehow to blame or it's unnatural. And ignoring that nature consists of animals killing, eating, and ****ing each other without any moral consideration.

#lolreligiouslogic.

2000 years ago, it was a good idea to not eat pork. But how do you tell people to not eat pork in a way that is enforceable? You tell people "God said..." However, today when we see something that is bad for us, we tell people not to eat it, and enforce it with "Science said...". Has anything really changed?

Stealth Moose

Yeah. Science can usually show us why eating X is bad for us.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Yeah. Science can usually show us why eating X is bad for us.

I agree, that is an improvement. But we all know that lab-coats cause cancer in lab rats (this was a joke from the 70's). laughing out loud

Stealth Moose

Alternative theory : God made the rats have cancer, because gay sex.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Alternative theory : God made the rats have cancer, because gay sex.

laughing out loud

An angel just got reamed.

eninn

Some may argue that in advanced countries like Australia ,usa , pigs are bred in very clean and hygienic conditions. Even in these hygienic conditions the pigs are kept together in sties. No matter how hard you try to keep them clean they are filthy by nature. They eat and enjoy their own as well as their neighbours excreta.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIIJquq4RSc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAzi_HrUsG8

Shakyamunison

eninn, you are so wrong. Did you know that some people keep pigs as pets? They are not filthy my nature, and can be trained.

lil bitchiness

Originally posted by eninn
Some may argue that in advanced countries like Australia ,usa , pigs are bred in very clean and hygienic conditions. Even in these hygienic conditions the pigs are kept together in sties. No matter how hard you try to keep them clean they are filthy by nature. They eat and enjoy their own as well as their neighbours excreta.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIIJquq4RSc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAzi_HrUsG8

Did Allah allow eating of the goats? I'm asking because goats eat their own shit and also have sex with their mothers.

Fail again.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Did Allah allow eating of the goats? I'm asking because goats eat their own shit and also have sex with their mothers.

Fail again.

Goat?! I know what was going on. Muhammad told the people to eat goat, and not eat pig so he could have all the bacon. wink

Stealth Moose

I suspect after a hazy recollection of the other night, both alcohol and pig eating were banned, both to prevent repeats and to avoid eating that one pig.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I suspect after a hazy recollection of the other night, both alcohol and pig eating were banned, both to prevent repeats and to avoid eating that one pig.

Yes, last night was wild, but I don't remember any pig. laughing out loud

eninn

No my dear brothers

This fact has been seen with the naked eye in the ground in developed countries, and late

The other non-Muslims and atheists will agree only if convinced through reason, logic and science. Eating of pork can cause no less than seventy different types of diseases. A person can have various Helminthes, like roundworm, pinworm, hookworm, etc. One of the most dangerous is Taenia Solium, which in a layman�s terminology is called tapeworm. It harbours in the intestine and is very long. Its ova i.e. eggs, enter the blood stream and can reach almost all the organs of the body. If it enters the brain it can cause memory loss. If it enters the heart it can cause heart attack and if it enters the eye it can cause blindness. If it enters the liver it can cause liver damage. It can damage almost all the organs of the body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgrK7ZUOa0E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-agRVLnKmw

Stealth Moose

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Your post assumes that Muslims don't need logic, reason, and science.

Also, I had tons of pork this week.

Who needs logic, reason, and science when you have the word of a child molesting desert pirate.

Stealth Moose

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Who needs logic, reason, and science when you have the word of a child molesting desert pirate.

#lolfundielogic.

Robtard

Originally posted by eninn
No my dear brothers

This fact has been seen with the naked eye in the ground in developed countries, and late

The other non-Muslims and atheists will agree only if convinced through reason, logic and science. Eating of pork can cause no less than seventy different types of diseases. A person can have various Helminthes, like roundworm, pinworm, hookworm, etc. One of the most dangerous is Taenia Solium, which in a layman�s terminology is called tapeworm. It harbours in the intestine and is very long. Its ova i.e. eggs, enter the blood stream and can reach almost all the organs of the body. If it enters the brain it can cause memory loss. If it enters the heart it can cause heart attack and if it enters the eye it can cause blindness. If it enters the liver it can cause liver damage. It can damage almost all the organs of the body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgrK7ZUOa0E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-agRVLnKmw

You can get parasites from fish, poultry and bovidae as well. Also, all these animals are known to eat their own doodoo and the doodoo of other animals. It comes down to how the meat is prepared and how the animal was cared for.

The ancient Jews initially outlawed the consumption of pork not because it's inherently bad for you, but because they had cornered the market on lamb and wanted greater profits on their lamb chops, as the Philistines had the pork market monopolized. Muhammad then stole this concept from the Jews when he wrote down the tenants of Islam. It was about economics; not health reasons.

Omega Vision

Pigs are actually a lot cleaner than cows or sheep with all the mud baths they take. Smarter too.

Robtard

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Pigs are actually a lot cleaner than cows or sheep with all the mud baths they take. Smarter too.

If they're so smart, why do they eat their own shit!??!?

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Robtard
If they're so smart, why do they eat their own shit!??!?

Many animals eat shit to replenish the beneficial flora that help with digestion.

Robtard

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Many animals eat shit to replenish the beneficial flora that help with digestion.

You and your "science".

Shakyamunison

Bacon!

Robtard

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh246/ovp666/ElephantEatsPoop.gif

Shakyamunison

That's not bacon!

Robtard

Maybe it taste like bacon though

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Robtard
Maybe it taste like bacon though

I would rather become a Muslim, barely.

Stealth Moose

That's an ass pull.

BackFire

I feel like the commas in the title probably have some kind of hidden meaning or symbolism that is lost on us. We should try to guess what they could be. I'll start.

Each comma represents a stone that he's planning on throwing at his future wife for exposing her forearm. Next?

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by BackFire
I feel like the commas in the title probably have some kind of hidden meaning or symbolism that is lost on us. We should try to guess what they could be. I'll start.

Each comma represents a stone that he's planning on throwing at his future wife for exposing her forearm. Next?

Each "," is a virgin that eninn gets for converting the infidels.

eninn

The following lists show germs or parasites that are found in pork and some diseases caused by them. Many of these diseases are contagious while some are proven fatal. This proves that the more science advances the more Islam is shown correct as a religion of God.

PARASITIC (Bloodsucking) DISEASES

a) TRICHINELLA SPIRATIS ( Trichina worms )
It is the most dangerous parasite to man ( Rheumatism and muscular pain). The infected persons shown no symptoms, recover very slowly some die, some reduced to permanent invalids. No one is immune from this disease and there is no cure.

b) TAENIA SOLIUM ( Pork tape worm )
The worm causes malnourishment of the person leading to anemia, diarrhea, extreme depression melancholia and digestive disturbances. Cysticercosis means that larva enter the blood stream then settle down in one or more of the vital organs of the body, for example: brain, liver, lungs or spinal cord. They grow and encapsulate, inducing pressure to thesystem around, resulting in dangerous diseases (diarrhea,digestive disorder, anemia, chronic invalidation).

c) ROUND WORMS
Examples: Ascaris, which may lead to digestive disturbances, appendicitis, obstructive jaundice.

d) HOOK WORMS
Examples:Ancylostomiasis, which may lead to anemia, oedema, heart failure or retarded growth ( mental and physical), tuberculosis,
diarrhea and typhoid.

e) SCHITOSOMA JAPONICUM
Bleeding, anemia and other syndromes. If ova are settled in the brain or spinal cord, paralysis and death may occur.

f) PARAGOMINES WESTERMAINI
Infestation leading to bleeding of the lungs ( endenve haemoptysis )

g) PACIOLEPSIS BUSKI
Digestive disturbances leading to persistent diarrhea; generalized oedema.

h) CLONORCHIS SINENSIS
chlonorchiasis-obstructive jaundice, liver enlargement.

i) METASTRONGYLUS APRI
Causes bronchitis, abscess of the lungs.

j) GIGANTHORINCHUS GIGAS
Cause anemia and digestive disorders.

k) BALATITIDIUM COLI
Causes acute dysentery and general weakness.

BACTERIAL DISEASES

Tuberculosis Fusiformis necrofurus: causing foot-rot which is very difficult to heal.
Salmonella Cholera suis: causing cholera Paratyphoid
Bruceellosis: Acute, sub acute and chronic. It may lead to permanent disabilities.
Swine Erysipelas: causing Erysipelas in man.

VIRAL DISEASES

Small pox: is was a source of infection to man.
Japanese B-encepphalitis: It is the source of infection
Influenza, foot mouth disease, gas tro-enteritis of the new born babies.

PROTOZOAN DISEASES

Toxo plasma goundii- It is a very dangerous diseases. A new born baby of an infected woman may die within few days or weeks after delivery. But if he survives he may develop blindness or deafness.In adult chronic exhaustive fever with enlarged liver and spleen may occur. Pneumonia, or celebro- spinal meninggitis which may lead to death or madness. The patient may become blind and deaf too.

OTHER DISEASES

Flesh of the pork is hard to digest and may lead to chronic digestive disturbances. Pimples, boils, cysts are common in pork eaters. These are some of the parasites and diseases found in pork and/ or the skin of pigs and certainly there are many more. There is still no means of killing these parasites, in the tissues, neither has anyone found a method of expelling them, even produced any specific treatment for the diseases.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga4iqFbyzc0

==

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22rqnwjrpV8

===

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSZP61IVp8U

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Did Allah allow eating of the goats? I'm asking because goats eat their own shit and also have sex with their mothers.

Fail again.

And they have parasites.

Stealth Moose

Lol at using science to prove that islam is legit.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Lol at using science to prove that islam is legit.

...and when science doesn't prove Islam, then they will say science is wrong.

This is a big problem with non-scientific minded people. They don't realize that science is not about proving something, but instead it is about disproving something. What's left must be the trust.

Epicurus

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Lol at using science to prove that islam is legit.
A lot of Muslims have been doing it for the last half-decade(maybe even longer) or so, and have been spectacularly failing at it.

Religious people trying to use science to "prove" the existence of God is quite dumb in itself, considering how it's supposed to be a matter of faith and all that jazz.

Stealth Moose

Yup. I don't understand trying to adopt the other side's tactics if and only if it supports your bias. This would be like me saying "If you just believe in evolution and don't question it because other people said so, then it is a valid theory". Emphasis on the method of achieving knowledge instead of the validity of said knowledge.

Eninn still hasn't clarified why only pork is bad, when all meats can contain harmful parasites, and vegetables can as well. It's all in the preparation. I'd be far more worried about prions than tapeworms.

eninn

1) A pig is a real garbage gut. It will eat anything including urine, excrement, dirt, decaying animal flesh, maggots, or decaying vegetables. They will even eat the cancerous growths off other pigs or animals.

2) The meat and fat of a pig absorbs toxins like a sponge. Their meat can be 30 times more toxic than beef .

3) When eating beef or venison, it takes 8 to 9 hours to digest the meat so what little toxins are in the meat are slowly put into our system and can be filtered by the liver. But when pork is eaten, it takes only 4 hours to digest the meat. We thus get a much higher level of toxins within a shorter time.

4) Unlike other mammals, a pig does not sweat or perspire. Perspiration is a means by which toxins are removed from the body. Since a pig does not sweat, the toxins remain within its body and in the meat.

5) Pigs and swine are so poisonous that you can hardly kill them with strychnine or other poisons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLuf9BPmUz0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilWrZjc8djg

Stealth Moose

Meanwhile, in eninn's nightmares...

http://payload147.cargocollective.com/1/0/5868/5242847/villain_jonSuguiyama02.jpg

Shakyamunison

Poor piggy.

Stealth Moose

I wonder of The Legend of Zelda and Ganon in particular are popular in the Middle East.

Wait, nevermind...

http://www.wamda.com/application/rapyd/assets/mfm_012/upload/zelda_large.png

Shakyamunison

^ I don't get it.

Stealth Moose

Google "Ganon".

dadudemon

Originally posted by eninn
Pork has very little muscle building material and contains excess of fat. This fat gets deposited in the vessels and can cause hypertension and heart attack. It is not surprising that over 50% of Americans suffer from hypertension

Three things:

1. Meat proteins that contain saturated fat do not really cause high cholesterol issues or cardivascular disease:

"Basically the most recent meta analyses (these are studies that combine the results of multiple studies) show that dietary cholesterol and dietary saturated fat have little or no effect upon the development of fatal cardiovascular disease. These results are consistent with a book chapter I wrote in 2006 (Cordain L. Saturated fat consumption in ancestral human diets: implications for contemporary intakes. In: Phytochemicals, Nutrient-Gene Interactions, Meskin MS, Bidlack WR, Randolph RK (Eds.), CRC Press (Taylor & Francis Group), 2006, pp. 115-126.). You can download and read this paper at my website: ( http://thepaleodiet.com/published-research-about-the-paleo-diet/#2006)

Best wishes

Loren Cordain, Ph.D., Professor"

That's an old myth that is just not dying fast enough.

2. Poor cardiovascular health is almost assuredly indicative of factors of everything but eating pork. It's almost assuredly the types of foods you eat and the amounts of those foods you eat (and the lack of certain foods in your diet)...oh, and the lack of exercise.

3. Look, I'm a pork eater and I assure you that my diet contains copious amounts of pork. I bet you my lipid profile and blood pressure are better than yours. smile

http://i.imgur.com/TDIY5z6.jpg

Stealth Moose

Those prominent veins... steroids?

dadudemon

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Those prominent veins... steroids?

Why does a low-ish bodyfat percentage mean "steroids"?

Stealth Moose

Originally posted by dadudemon
Why does a low-ish bodyfat percentage mean "steroids"?

Paranoia is also a symptom.

Lord Lucien

Your vascular arm looks like a leaf. Which is ironic what with the pork stuff.

I think I have the same shirt.

eninn

Pig meat has twice as much fat as beef. A 3 oz T bone steak contains 8.5 grams of fat; a 3 oz pork chop contains 18 grams of fat. A 3 oz beef rib has 11.1 grams of fat; a 3 oz pork spare rib has 23.2 grams of fat.

) Cows have a complex digestive system, having four stomachs. It thus takes over 24 hours to digest their vegetarian diet causing its food to be purified of toxins. In contrast, the swine's one stomach takes only about 4 hours to digest its foul diet, turning its toxic food into flesh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca1H6ULC4aM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhQ2k-DqaOs

Stealth Moose

http://m.laweekly.com/imager/b/mobilemagnum/4217787/e26c/porkbenefits.jpg

Shakyamunison

There are enough nuts to go around.

Robtard

Eninn has convinced me, I'm going to stop eating pork in all its forms.

Pork = meat of the satan

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Robtard
Eninn has convinced me, I'm going to stop eating pork in all its forms.

Pork = meat of the satan

More bacon for ME, then!

Robtard

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
More bacon for ME, then!

Enjoy the parasites, herpes, cancer, flu, near vision, gay-butt-sex, atheism and AIDS that all come from eating pork, pal!

You were warned.

Stealth Moose

Originally posted by Robtard
Eninn has convinced me, I'm going to stop eating pork in all its forms.

Pork = meat of the satan

He used scientific facts in the religious sub-forum to convince the non-Muslims of the evils of pork.... in accordance with religious tenets.

#datlogic.

Robtard

'I can prove Creation and a young Earth model to be true using scientific method.' - Ken Ham

*proceeds to use the Bible as infallible proof*

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Robtard
'I can prove Creation and a young Earth model to be true using scientific method.' - Ken Ham

*proceeds to use the Bible as infallible proof*

We have gotten so desperate that one of use has to pose as a theist so we can have a conversation.

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by Robtard
'I can prove Creation and a young Earth model to be true using scientific method.' - Ken Ham

*proceeds to use the Bible as infallible proof*

erm

Dude, quit being lazy and get your reading done, like you promised.
It will take you less than 10 minutes:

http://www.ditext.com/diamond/mistake.html

Source: "The Worst Mistake in the History of the Human Race," Discover Magazine, May 1987, pp. 64-66.
Jared Diamond, University of California at Los Angeles Medical School

You're messing around with Eninn when you have someone waiting to have conversations like this with you ...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=593506&pagenumber=5

Stealth Moose

Originally posted by Robtard
'I can prove Creation and a young Earth model to be true using scientific method.' - Ken Ham

*proceeds to use the Bible as infallible proof*

This is comedy gold.

Shakyamunison

Ya, Robtard, we want to see that report right away!

Robtard

Google: Steve Nye Ken Ham debate.

Some of it is gold. One of my favorites was when Ham resorts to: "Ultimately no one knows what happened back then because no one today was there to witness it, so it's all a guess. But the one person that was there was God and we have his word in the Bible. So that's true." tactic.

I paraphrased, but that was the gist of his best "scientific" argument after Nye fist-punched his anus.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Robtard
Google: Steve Nye Ken Ham debate.

Some of it is gold. One of my favorites was when Ham resorts to: "Ultimately no one knows what happened back then because no one today was there to witness it, so it's all a guess. But the one person that was there was God and we have his word in the Bible. So that's true." tactic.

I paraphrased, but that was the gist of his best "scientific" argument after Nye fist-punched his anus.

laughing out loud

But we have a time machine called space.

Stealth Moose

Robtard

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I lol'd so hard.

http://www.educatetruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/KenHam2.jpeg

dadudemon

Originally posted by eninn
Pig meat has twice as much fat as beef. A 3 oz T bone steak contains 8.5 grams of fat; a 3 oz pork chop contains 18 grams of fat. A 3 oz beef rib has 11.1 grams of fat; a 3 oz pork spare rib has 23.2 grams of fat.

) Cows have a complex digestive system, having four stomachs. It thus takes over 24 hours to digest their vegetarian diet causing its food to be purified of toxins. In contrast, the swine's one stomach takes only about 4 hours to digest its foul diet, turning its toxic food into flesh.

Some people have specific metabolic conditions which makes it to where they have to eat meat. Pork works well for them.

But that is an exception.

Pork can be part of a very healthy and very balanced diet.

Sanitization is no longer an issue which is why Muslims and Jews forbade pork. We have modern science which tells us how to raise, prep, and cook pork to minimize the medical issues that the ancient Arabs and Jews had issues with. Those same precautions should be taken with all meats, not just pork. There is nothing magically unsanitary about pork compared to other meats. Hell, I think poultry is less sanitary than pork.

Look, our pork is becoming so safe to consume that you can cook it medium:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2011-05-24-cooking-pork_n.htm

Here, read this:

http://www.cracked.com/article_19628_9-ridiculous-cooking-myths-you-probably-believe_p2.html

Personally, I think undercooked meat is gross and usually unsanitary, but don't let a little bit of ancient and antiquated scripture get in the way of something delicious. Pan-fried bacon is very clean. A couple of slices of bacon with your eggs and jam covered English muffin is an awesome breakfast. Go ahead, try it.

I'm a Mormon and sometimes I will have an alcoholic beverage. It won't kill me or decrease my life span. I don't have a drinking problem (which is why the Mormons originally came up with the anti-alcohol law).

So if I am okay with a drink every 6 months to a year, you can be okay with some pork every 6 months to a year. Ask Allah: He really doesn't care.

Robtard

@ DDM the alcoholic trying to push booze on people.

dadudemon

Originally posted by Robtard
laughing out loud

@ DDM the alcoholic trying to push booze on people.

*Pork on Muslim people. wink

eninn

Eninn has convinced me, I'm going to stop eating pork in all its forms.

Pork = meat of the satan
Enjoy the parasites, herpes, cancer, flu, near vision, gay-butt-sex, atheism and AIDS that all come from eating pork, pal!
You were warned..

thank you

\\\

bluewaterrider

thank you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_aMWSFoWSE

\\\

Satan, the devil is proud and cast out by Allah because he is jealous of Adam, disobeyed Allah, and became avowed enemy of Mankind. He has the power to disturb man from the front, behind, by the sides and can enter the body, whisper evil in Man's heart as approved by Allah. Satan, the devil's job is to mislead man to hell. It is easy for Satan to mislead non-muslims to worship other than Allah but not true Muslims. Satan will destroy Muslims by using many tactics but especially by 1. Jealousy and 2. Greediness . Satan was punished because of jealousy and Adam was punished because of greed. Satan certainly will try to persuade muslims at the time of death when a person is in semi conscious state to say that there are other gods than Allah. If Satan succeeds the soul of Muslim or non Muslim will go out from the body at the time of death without faith and that soul will enter hell.

Muslims therefore practice and profess "there is no God except Allah, Muhammad is the messenger of Allah" it must be said by mouth and believed in the heart all the time and practiced all the time to make it habitual during sleep or while awake or in shock or distress. Allah has provided a way for mankind to drive away Satan meaning "I seek refuge in Allah from Satan the outcast, In the name of Allah , The Most Gracious , The Most Merciful". Whenever a Muslim starts to do anything e.g. eat, drink, sleep, travel, switch on the computer, open the book to read or write, enter bath room , twilight , travel, enter into vehicle, sleep with his wife, gets up from sleep, he recites this verse to drive away Satan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sRldOyBtHs

====
Someone told me
Alcoholism plagued my family as well. My father was an alcoholic and all my siblings had alcohol or drug abuse problems at some point in their life.

From my experience, most regularly marijuana users have negative consequence from its use.

i dunno. i know prohibition doesn't work. perhaps more severe punishments for alcohol related crimes is the next step for a society.

I don't think that will have much effect. I am very happy that Islam, disallow the use of alcohol. That seems like the best way to reduce negative side effects.

Like I said, the problem is there a percentage of people who cannot use alcohol responsibly, and generate horrible side effects for the rest of us.

very sorry to hear that. i am all for tougher sentences for people who drive drunk.

===

So you say you're right

So Jesus Christ is at fault

Science at the hands of some true and some wrong

But the prophets talk about the science of the Creator of the heavens and the earth

Christianity now have nothing to do with Jesus Christ peace be upon him at all

Galatians 5:19-21 ESV / 34 helpful votes

Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Non-Muslims eat pork - drink alcohol - adultery - usury - gambling - and so

And does sins against the Ten Commandments

And do not care about that so this basically things in his life

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6jytk1Lchg

Shakyamunison

Satan does not exist.

eninn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO6GsYGuV6k

\\

Someone told me

Thank You Brother eninn

I was in Missouri visiting a brother who is Muslim. we spent the day starting with him praying, then we went to a Muslim bakery, and had breakfast. I bought some deserts and some pies. From there we went to a Muslim market. He bought some ground lamb, and some beef and we had a barbeque in his back yard. We ate like kings... and the lamb burgers were excellent. It was my first time trying one. It was better than any beef burger I have ever had.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhCB1eoPguA

Shakyamunison

Is this now the thread were we can post irrelevant letters from unknown people?

Stealth Moose

The inability to sense sarcasm is strong with this one.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
The inability to sense sarcasm is strong with this one.

You had better not be talking about me! mad

Unless you are being sarcastic. confused

Shakyamunison

Popularity = right?

laughing out loud

Stealth Moose

http://imgace.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/make-the-lie-big.jpg

Godwin's Lawtotally relevant in this case, since popularity is a valid criticism when determining moral righteousness.

Lord Lucien

Originally posted by eninn
I have thousands of friends from England and America, the Netherlands, Bulgaria, Japan and Singapore I don't think you do.

Shakyamunison

Muslims can lie to infidels.

eninn

This is your personal opinion

Whether real or wrong

I respect that

I am always in the service To inquire about anything about Islam

Thank you

\\

someone told me

Eninn seems honest and sincere...

someone told me
hello

From freida Block messages from this sender Click

Hi Eninn,
good morning.
how are you doing?
may i ask you somethings?
what is your real name?
why do you insist on writing about Islam here?
did you write about سيدن?عم?بن الخطاب لكنسية القبامة؟

waiting for your reply.
thank you.
have a nice time.

freida

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWckX2HwuRE

\\\

Someone told me
Pork is the shit.. if you work out you wont' have to worry about the fat in it..

dadudemon

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I don't think you do.

I've heard of this, before. I believe I'm sitting at 400-500, comfortably, right now. There is an extra 300-500 that I am not "up-to-date" with. I don't feel the pressure, quite yet, but, as time goes on, that list keeps getting bigger and bigger. Eventually, I should hit a limit and it will not longer be comfortable or easy to maintain the relationships with a reasonable amount of effort. Is there advice on what to do so people don't feel snubbed?

Edit - the "Bernard–Killworth number" is more accurate and is closer to my number.

Robtard

STFU, DDM. You have total of two friends and I'm one of them.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Robtard
stfu, DDM. You have total of two friends and I'm one of them.

Wow! I didn't realize that I was the other one.

BTW who is eninn talking too?

Robtard

To everyone I assume. Eninn thanked me for leading a Pork-Free existance. All my problems have been cured.

dadudemon

Originally posted by Robtard
STFU, DDM. You have total of two friends and I'm one of them.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Wow! I didn't realize that I was the other one.

weep

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by dadudemon
weep

Don't make me feel sorry for you. After all, you have all the daunts. wink

Lord Lucien

Originally posted by dadudemon
I've heard of this, before. I believe I'm sitting at 400-500, comfortably, right now. There is an extra 300-500 that I am not "up-to-date" with. I don't feel the pressure, quite yet, but, as time goes on, that list keeps getting bigger and bigger. Eventually, I should hit a limit and it will not longer be comfortable or easy to maintain the relationships with a reasonable amount of effort. Is there advice on what to do so people don't feel snubbed? Just stop responding to them on Facebook.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Just stop responding to them on Facebook.

But that's were ALL of his friends are. wink

Stealth Moose

Odin doesn't prohibit pork. He also doesn't ask me to kill infidels. My religion is the best.

dadudemon

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Odin doesn't prohibit pork. He also doesn't ask me to kill infidels. My religion is the best.

Heathenism is actually a fairly decent religion except for the whole "die honorably in battle" part.

Stealth Moose

That's one of the best parts dude. You die in glorious combat, so you don't get old and weak and watch your body betray you and become a burden to your loved ones, then a smexy Valkyrie brings you to the Dave and Buster's of warriors forevah.

dadudemon

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
That's one of the best parts dude. You die in glorious combat, so you don't get old and weak and watch your body betray you and become a burden to your loved ones, then a smexy Valkyrie brings you to the Dave and Buster's of warriors forevah.

I consider the taking of another's life, especially in war-time, to be one of the worst things humans could have possibly invented. It is possibly the worst thing, ever, in all of history. But that is a clash of fundamental beliefs. You like slaughtering your enemies and I like befriending my enemies and partaking of their knowledge (and, therefore, becoming a better person for it).

Also, you're forgetting the Ragnarok stuff after you die in "glorious battle."

Stealth Moose

Hippie. Also, Ragnarok is questionably canon. It could have been a Christian insert to corrupt a heathen religion, kind of like putting Christ in Beowulf and the whole Sangreal chapter of Le Morte d'Arthur.

Shakyamunison

A hippie and a barbarian walk into a bar...

dadudemon

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
A hippie and a barbarian walk into a bar...

And they both enjoy a pint of fine ale?

Because I am positive hippies and barbarians both enjoy a fine ale. Who doesn't besides Mormons?

Oh, wait....FUUUUUUUU!

(This is a joke...I don't drink and I especially find all forms of ale to be gross (but I have not tried them all so I could be wrong).)

Lord Lucien

I have tried them and yes, they are all gross.

Shakyamunison

WIMPS

Stealth Moose

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I have tried them and yes, they are all gross.

Nope.

Time Immemorial

Originally posted by Robtard
To everyone I assume. Eninn thanked me for leading a Pork-Free existance. All my problems have been cured.

laughing

Time Immemorial

How can little pieces of bacon taste so good, but be so bad sad

eninn

Some one told me
the reason it's considered to be an "unclean food" is because pigs have NO SWEAT GLANDS

which is how all the bodily TOXINS are released

hence with pork it all stays in the meat for the duration of their lives and it has accumulated all the while therein from birth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDZGgoNwjSw&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfMePz5zFeE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmZDpa2F82Y

Arhael

Originally posted by eninn
Some one told me
the reason it's considered to be an "unclean food" is because pigs have NO SWEAT GLANDS

which is how all the bodily TOXINS are released

hence with pork it all stays in the meat for the duration of their lives and it has accumulated all the while therein from birth

Chicken doesn't have sweat glands either. Regardless, there are other mechanisms that allow pigs and other animals to eliminate toxins.

Shakyamunison

Originally posted by Arhael
Chicken doesn't have sweat glands either. Regardless, there are other mechanisms that allow pigs and other animals to eliminate toxins.

I think humans are one of the few animals that have sweat glands.

eninn

(Most scientific conversation) sent by British Minister
Bob : Tell me why is it that a Muslim is very particular about the words Halaal and Haraam; what do they mean?

BM: That which is permissible is termed Halaal and that which is not permissible is termed Haraam and it is the Quran which draws the distinction between the two.

Bob: Can you give me an example?

BM: Yes, Islam has prohibited blood of any type. You will agree that a chemical analysis of blood shows that it contains an abundance of uric acid, a chemical substance which can be injurious to human health.

Bob: You're right about the toxic nature of uric acid, in the human
being it is excreted as a waste product and in fact we are told that 98% of the body's uric acid is extracted from the blood by the kidneys and removed through urination.

BM: Now I think that you'll appreciate the special prescribed method of animal slaughter in Islam.

Bob: What do you mean?

BM: You see, the wielder of the knife, whilst taking the name
of the 'Almighty', makes an incision through the jugular veins, leaving all other veins and organs intact.

Bob : I see, this causes the death of the animal by a total loss of blood from the body, rather than an injury to any vital organ.

BM: Yes, were the organs, example the heart, the liver, or the brain crippled or damaged, the animal could die immediately and its blood would congeal in its veins and would eventually permeate the flesh. This implies that the animal flesh would be permeated and contaminated with uric acid and therefore very poisonous; only today did our dieticians realize such a thing.

Bob: Again, while on the topic of food; Why do Muslims condemn the eating of pork or ham or any foods related to pigs or swine

BM: Actually, apart from the Quran prohibiting the consumption of
pork, bacon (pig flesh); in fact the Bible too in Leviticus Chapter 11: Verse 8, regarding swine it says, 'of their flesh (of the swine, another name for pig) shall you not eat, and of their carcass you shall not touch; they are unclean to you.' Further, did you know that a pig cannot be slaughtered at the neck for it does not have a neck; that is according to its natural anatomy. A Muslim reasons that if the pig was to be slaughtered and fit for human consumption the Creator would have provided it with a neck. Nonetheless, all that aside, I am sure you are well informed about the harmful effects of the consumption of pork, in any form, be it pork chops, ham, bacon.

Bob: The medical science finds that there is a risk for various diseases the pig is found to be a host for many parasites and potential diseases.

BM: Yes, even apart from that, as we talked about uric acid content in the blood, it is >>important to note that the pig 's biochemistry excretes only 2% of its total uric acid content, the remaining 98% remains as an integral part of the body. Plus as everyone knows that swine (pig) eats its own excretion, which means that of all the uric acid and the other waste products excreted, most of it goes back inside again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3I_d-5jiyw