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1. Immortal Hercules
2. Thor
3. WWH
4. Thanos
5. Zeus
6. Odin
8. Tyrant
9. Galactus
10. Eternity

what the hell is up with the order? WWH above thor and sentry? zeus above odin?

Originally posted by JuggernautMania
what the hell is up with the order? WWH above thor and sentry? zeus above odin?

Sorry, editing some of it.

Originally posted by JuggernautMania
what the hell is up with the order? WWH above thor and sentry? zeus above odin?

I see your a fan of the Cyttorak

Dont listen to Jugs when it comes to power levels. As for Cytorrak, we have no idea of his power level.

Originally posted by carver9
Dont listen to Jugs when it comes to power levels. As for Cytorrak, we have no idea of his power level.

so you are saying WWH is above thor and zeus is above odin.

Originally posted by carver9
Dont listen to Jugs when it comes to power levels. As for Cytorrak, we have no idea of his power level.

He has appeared in many issues though, many Alias's as well such as: Lord of Oblivion, Master of the Raging Storm, Unstoppable Force, The Destroyer of Worlds, and is classed as a God/Eternal.

Originally posted by JuggernautMania
so you are saying WWH is above thor and zeus is above odin.

Stated on panel Thor couldnt stop WWH and the entire crew of Avengers were there.

http://s980.photobucket.com/user/ankur2292/media/IncredibleHulk611005.jpg.html

"YOU CANT STOP ME, NONE OF YOU CAN" and he casually separate the entire Avengers with a stomp.

Stop asking questions you should know answer if you are judging against a character.

Originally posted by carver9
Stated on panel Thor couldnt stop WWH and the entire crew of Avengers were there.

http://s980.photobucket.com/user/ankur2292/media/IncredibleHulk611005.jpg.html

"YOU CANT STOP ME, NONE OF YOU CAN" and he casually separate the entire Avengers with a stomp.

Stop asking questions you should know answer if you are judging against a character.

what the hell? you call him more powerful than thor because he said so? ..... sometimes i really wonder if you worth a respond seriously. guess what? there is a reason they excluded thor in the WWH storyline because hulk would get his shit pushed in. later they also released some alternate issue what would happen if thor foguth WWH and he beat hulk.

Cyttorak should clear based off of Strange's interactions with him and the leve that Trion Juggernaut operates at.

Originally posted by JuggernautMania
what the hell? you call him more powerful than thor because he said so? ..... sometimes i really wonder if you worth a respond seriously. guess what? there is a reason they excluded thor in the WWH storyline because hulk would get his shit pushed in. later they also released some alternate issue what woul have happened if thor foguth WWH and he beat hulk.

Thor was there, crazy. No need to invite Thor to fight WWH when he was right there in front of him and casually got tossed away with a footstep.

LOL at you criticizing me when no one, and I mean, no one ever agrees with you.

Originally posted by carver9
Thor was there, crazy. No need to invite Thor to fight WWH when he was right there in front of him and casually got tossed away with a footstep.

LOL at you criticizing me when no one, and I mean, no one ever agrees with you.

the scan doesnt make any sense. thor is shirtless like he was in a fight. but he did not fight WWH. that image wasnt a real image, that was a portrayel of what hulk thought would happen and his message to them. the image just shows what could happen and gave hulk words an image, however it did not happen.

and lets be honest lets say WWH created a shockwave with a stomp that tackled thor... so? does it mean thor cant take him out once he bash his face with mjolnir and all his other powers?
i already pointed out that marvel released a comics of what would happen if thor was involved in WWH and thor beats him. thats the ultimate proof to where he stands vs thor.

Lol you are talking with me about people who agree with me? first of all you are no the most credible poster here yourself to say the least.
second of all unlike you i got spine and i stand behind the things i really think. you on the other hand vote with the trand and afraid to go up against bigger posters. everybody knows that in the king thor vs WBH you really believe WBH will win, but you are scared to say that and get bashed by all the thor fans, specially rage, i found it funny how you were explaining rage that you agree with him and god forbids not against him.

Originally posted by DarkRaiden
Cyttorak should clear based off of Strange's interactions with him and the leve that Trion Juggernaut operates at.

He can clear Galactus and Eternity as well?

Originally posted by JuggernautMania
the scan doesnt make any sense. thor is shirtless like he was in a fight. but he did not fight WWH. that image wasnt a real image, that was a portrayel of what hulk thought would happen and his message to them. the image just shows what could happen and gave hulk words an image, however it did not happen.

and lets be honest lets say WWH created a shockwave with a stomp that tackled thor... so? does it mean thor cant take him out once he bash his face with mjolnir and all his other powers?
i already pointed out that marvel released a comics of what would happen if thor was involved in WWH and thor beats him. thats the ultimate proof to where he stands vs thor.

Lol you are talking with me about people who agree with me? first of all you are no the most credible poster here yourself to say the least.
second of all unlike you i got spine and i stand behind the things i really think. you on the other hand vote with the trand and afraid to go up against bigger posters. everybody knows that in the king thor vs WBH you really believe WBH will win, but you are scared to say that and get bashed by all the thor fans, specially rage, i found it funny how you were explaining rage that you agree with him and god forbids not against him.

LOL... there was no battle before this. They came there to stop Hulk. Hulk clearly told them to step to the side, there was nothing they could do to stop them and lets not pretend Hulk doesn't know about Thor power level because he does.

HAHAHAHAHA...did you just use a fan based story to prove Thor could beat WWH? HAHAHAHAHA.

Again, if Thor was capable of beating WWH, he would have done so during that instance, or at least fought alongside Skaar to stop him. This is what you are forgetting.

LOL... you had a gang of people trying to get you to use common sense and it got them no where. Again, you dont have the right talk about ANYONE.

Thor already beat an amped WWH with a Mjolnir like apparatus.

But yes, where Cyttorak would stop between THOR and HULK is the real discussion here

Didn't Cyttorak imprison Galactus at one time?

No. He put his bands around Galactus' ship and Galactus didn't give a shit. Nova then blew them off

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
No. He put his bands around Galactus' ship and Galactus didn't give a shit. Nova then blew them off

i've always figured him about dormammu level, which is to say about odin level. fp tyrant (the one who battled g so along ago) would likely stop him. from the discussion in the fear itself arc, i was always under the impression that cyttorak was stronger than 2/5 of the pf, but imo he would have been less than the full force, though it's true the full power of the complete force has been somewhat inconsistently depicted.... he's always been notoriously difficult to gauge power-wise.

Originally posted by leonidas
i've always figured him about dormammu level, which is to say about odin level. fp tyrant (the one who battled g so along ago) would likely stop him. from the discussion in the fear itself arc, i was always under the impression that cyttorak was stronger than 2/5 of the pf, but imo he would have been less than the full force, though it's true the full power of the complete force has been somewhat inconsistently depicted.... he's always been notoriously difficult to gauge power-wise.

In his Crimson Universe he seems to have unlimited power. And access to any and he needs. Life creator, destruction, celestial level.

really? where have you seen him exhibit that level of power? scans or issue numbers would be cool. and, i think he's only ever appeared inside his universe if i'm not mistaken.... btw, even celestial level doesn't contradict what i said. galactus>celestial--at least a reasonably fed galactus is....

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Thor already beat an amped WWH with a Mjolnir like apparatus.

But yes, where Cyttorak would stop between THOR and HULK is the real discussion here

I'm sorry but when did this happen? Are you talking about him removing Nul Hulk from the battle? If so, was there any solid proof that Nul Hulk could amplify his strength the way Banner was able to? The reason that I ask, is because all of the characters possessed were bound up in the background (basically they weren't in the drivers seat).

Also the question of if Nul were to have jumped back to where Thor was, how would it have played out? Nul was fine when he landed, Thor wasn't. This isn't me picking sides, but what happened in the comic. This is if you were speaking of Nul Hulk of course.

Originally posted by leonidas
really? where have you seen him exhibit that level of power? scans or issue numbers would be cool. and, i think he's only ever appeared inside his universe if i'm not mistaken.... btw, even celestial level doesn't contradict what i said. galactus>celestial--at least a reasonably fed galactus is....

He created a whole race of elves or something to worship him. I do not know what issue or have scans of it.

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm sorry but when did this happen? Are you talking about him removing Nul Hulk from the battle? If so, was there any solid proof that Nul Hulk could amplify his strength the way Banner was able to? The reason that I ask, is because all of the characters possessed were bound up in the background (basically they weren't in the drivers seat).

Also the question of if Nul were to have jumped back to where Thor was, how would it have played out? Nul was fine when he landed, Thor wasn't. This isn't me picking sides, but what happened in the comic. This is if you were speaking of Nul Hulk of course.

That's the fight he is talking about. Mind controlled Hulk.

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm sorry but when did this happen? Are you talking about him removing Nul Hulk from the battle? If so, was there any solid proof that Nul Hulk could amplify his strength the way Banner was able to? The reason that I ask, is because all of the characters possessed were bound up in the background (basically they weren't in the drivers seat).

Also the question of if Nul were to have jumped back to where Thor was, how would it have played out? Nul was fine when he landed, Thor wasn't. This isn't me picking sides, but what happened in the comic. This is if you were speaking of Nul Hulk of course. Basically what you're saying is that the guy who tore an adamantium net and crushed an enchanted hammer was actually meant to be weaker than he was before he got the hammer? Hulk is the only character who received an amp and got downgraded?

And the anger thing wasn't touched upon at all. So I'm not going to assume that a severely pissed off all the time Nul suddenly lost his amping powers. As well as every bound character's powers still worked the same. Absorbing Man still absorbed. Juggernaut was still unstoppable.

And if Thor didn't just get blasted by a sky father before the battle or took attacks due to it being two on one what would have happened? If Hulk would have been laid flat out cold on the ground right in front of Thor and then Thor passed out your question would have the same merit. If Hulk woke up he would have beaten up Thor. If Hulk woke up and flew back to Earth he would have beaten up a passed out Thor. That still doesn't mean the battle wasn't over

Thor won. That's all there is to it. We want to use a scene where Thor didn't attack Hulk as proof of how superior Hulk is, then we should probably bring up their fight.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Basically what you're saying is that the guy who tore an adamantium net and crushed an enchanted hammer was actually meant to be weaker than he was before he got the hammer? Hulk is the only character who received an amp and got downgraded?

And the anger thing wasn't touched upon at all. So I'm not going to assume that a severely pissed off all the time Nul suddenly lost his amping powers. As well as every bound character's powers still worked the same. Absorbing Man still absorbed. Juggernaut was still unstoppable.

And if Thor didn't just get blasted by a sky father before the battle or took attacks due to it being two on one what would have happened? If Hulk would have been laid flat out cold on the ground right in front of Thor and then Thor passed out your question would have the same merit. If Hulk woke up he would have beaten up Thor. If Hulk woke up and flew back to Earth he would have beaten up a passed out Thor. That still doesn't mean the battle wasn't over

Thor won. That's all there is to it. We want to use a scene where Thor didn't attack Hulk as proof of how superior Hulk is, then we should probably bring up their fight.

Whoa slow down. I asked a question, and you give me a lecture. Thor passed out, I didn't see Nul pass out. Nul was in the drivers seat, like it or not, in the same manner that Cain was also bound up. I am talking about the personality here. The Hulk's powers work differently than all of the others that you named. They work on attitude, and I am still wondering whether or not Nul was able to amplify the Hulk's body like Banner could. The power increase that he exhibited could have been caused by being in possession on a magical item after all.

Now if you can't give me a concrete answer then that's fine. It was just something that I was thinking of. BTW Nul was awake when he landed, and not KO'd. I don't believe that Thor truly won that fight, and if he did, I would consider it a hollow victory. This is not to say that if the Hulk did the same to Thor that the same would not applly. I mean didn't that happen when they fought it out in the Arctic, and the Hulk tossed Thor away from a blast radius?

Ok so long story short is, no one knows how powerful this guy is.

Originally posted by Stoic
Whoa slow down. I asked a question, and you give me a lecture. Thor passed out, I didn't see Nul pass out. Nul was in the drivers seat, like it or not, in the same manner that Cain was also bound up. I am talking about the personality here. The Hulk's powers work differently than all of the others that you named. They work on attitude, and I am still wondering whether or not Nul was able to amplify the Hulk's body like Banner could. The power increase that he exhibited could have been caused by being in possession on a magical item after all.

Now if you can't give me a concrete answer then that's fine. It was just something that I was thinking of. BTW Nul was awake when he landed, and not KO'd. I don't believe that Thor truly won that fight, and if he did, I would consider it a hollow victory. This is not to say that if the Hulk did the same to Thor that the same would not applly. I mean didn't that happen when they fought it out in the Arctic, and the Hulk tossed Thor away from a blast radius? What do you think is going to happen when you state that a Hulk with an amp is weaker than a Hulk without an amp?

Hulk was knocked out in space. He woke up. Flew back to Earth. He could do that a 100 times in a row due to a healing factor. That doesn't mean he wins fights.

Anyway, it's outright stated that he was stronger than normal (the first comic I went to):
http://i58.tinypic.com/2yyqe7d.jpg

"Greatly elevated"

And Nul on his own was just as strong as Hulk (WWH at the time) with all of his power, and none of his personality. Without the hammer, and without the Hulk:
http://i58.tinypic.com/n1otg1.jpg
http://i60.tinypic.com/2whgmqq.jpg

"Power enhancing"
http://i62.tinypic.com/em5qa.jpg

This whole "His personality" thing has been talked about before. And frankly asking for proof of it when the whole premise alone disproves it doesn't work. Until someone can show a scan of someone saying he's weaker... I mean, the proof thing works from both angles, and the Hulk being weaker isn't something that's supported.
Not to mention he was still calling himself Hulk. He recognized people. He remembered about Thor. Etc.

Thor wasn't knocked out in the stratosphere, nor did he land hundreds of miles away never to return. He was actually unhurt too iirc. And people still count that as a win anyway.


Thor won against an amped WWH. Simple really. Whether he could repeat that again is anyone's guess. But the fact remains is that it happened.

You're wrong, and Nul wasn't koed.

With all that proof you just showed it'd be foolish to accept my obviously doctored scans

Bran just dashed carver's dreams.

Originally posted by carver9
LOL... there was no battle before this. They came there to stop Hulk. Hulk clearly told them to step to the side, there was nothing they could do to stop them and lets not pretend Hulk doesn't know about Thor power level because he does.

HAHAHAHAHA...did you just use a fan based story to prove Thor could beat WWH? HAHAHAHAHA.

Again, if Thor was capable of beating WWH, he would have done so during that instance, or at least fought alongside Skaar to stop him. This is what you are forgetting.

LOL... you had a gang of people trying to get you to use common sense and it got them no where. Again, you dont have the right talk about ANYONE.

the image you posted wasnt a fight that happened. its an image that was trying to portray a situation of what will happen if hulk returns and will be pissed at them again. why is thor shirtless? did he fight hulk to lose his top? no. that image was there to portray a situation of hulk keeping his words and return.
as i already explained i will say again. hulk causing thor to stumble doesnt mean he can beat thor. aside of that marvel released a whole issue that show us what would happen if they did fight and thor won, this ends the discussion of Thor vs WWH.

i find it very funny you are using the fact they excluded thor to prove somehow hulk is more powerful. facts are that thor was missing because he would crush WWH. if Thor could be beat by WWH he would be portrayed and owned. only reason they restricted silver surfer to only a gladiator fight with hulk and exluded thor was because they wanted WWH to have his tiny moment of glory. he got his head beat into the ground by juggernaut Lol , he got reversed to baner by a holding back EMO Sentry, was gushing blood from a hercules that did not want to fight. WWH got nothing on thor and always will be a match for thor only in a slugfest while thor is holding back.

Lol i will rewrite it for you. i had a gang of people trying to tell me what to think based on their common opinion. but facts are i got my own opinion and i state it even if it goes up against the entire board. it doesnt even take balls to do it. it just shows how spinless you are that you dont even have the spine to go up against people opinions on some internet forum. if anything you should keep it down and let other people talk while you do what you are best at. cheerlead the stronger debaters and use other people arguments right after they said them

Presuming that he's in his realm:

Stops at Odin.

Originally posted by JuggernautMania
the image you posted wasnt a fight that happened. its an image that was trying to portray a situation of what will happen if hulk returns and will be pissed at them again. why is thor shirtless? did he fight hulk to lose his top? no. that image was there to portray a situation of hulk keeping his words and return.
as i already explained i will say again. hulk causing thor to stumble doesnt mean he can beat thor. aside of that marvel released a whole issue that show us what would happen if they did fight and thor won, this ends the discussion of Thor vs WWH.

i find it very funny you are using the fact they excluded thor to prove somehow hulk is more powerful. facts are that thor was missing because he would crush WWH. if Thor could be beat by WWH he would be portrayed and owned. only reason they restricted silver surfer to only a gladiator fight with hulk and exluded thor was because they wanted WWH to have his tiny moment of glory. he got his head beat into the ground by juggernaut Lol , he got reversed to baner by a holding back EMO Sentry, was gushing blood from a hercules that did not want to fight. WWH got nothing on thor and always will be a match for thor only in a slugfest while thor is holding back.

Lol i will rewrite it for you. i had a gang of people trying to tell me what to think based on their common opinion. but facts are i got my own opinion and i state it even if it goes up against the entire board. it doesnt even take balls to do it. it just shows how spinless you are that you dont even have the spine to go up against people opinions on some internet forum. if anything you should keep it down and let other people talk while you do what you are best at. cheerlead the stronger debaters and use other people arguments right after they said them


So Hulk words isn't good enough for you? What about Thor words?

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8383/thorvshulkandthing6.jpg

"I can't beat you you know. And I never could."

Thor used a valuable tactic. Instead of fighting Hulk straight up, he bfred him. Those words meant a lot though. It tells us where Hulk stands power wise.

Show me a scan of WWH being reversed by Sentry.

WWH beat Juggernaut after a long battle with almost every mutant on the planet.

The moral of this story is, WWH is above top tier. Get over it.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Thor already beat an amped WWH with a Mjolnir like apparatus.

This. Back to topic Odin stomps

Thor isn't talking about fighting Hulk in general , he's talking about that instance only...even a child can understand that

Originally posted by carver9
So Hulk words isn't good enough for you? What about Thor words?

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8383/thorvshulkandthing6.jpg

"I can't beat you you know. And I never could."

Thor used a valuable tactic. Instead of fighting Hulk straight up, he bfred him. Those words meant a lot though. It tells us where Hulk stands power wise.

Show me a scan of WWH being reversed by Sentry.

WWH beat Juggernaut after a long battle with almost every mutant on the planet.

The moral of this story is, WWH is above top tier. Get over it.

Thor defeated that version of Hulk. oh the irony.

funny because thor took out hulk or was evenly matched with him dozens of times, and all that only in slugfest without even using his powers. nothing but hyperbole statement.

aside of that i will also point out that we dont know the full context and meaning of this statement. thor could have been talking only about the NUL version. therefor when he said i cant beat you and couldnt beat you he meant he couldnt and cant beat Nul. however thor did beat him so thats funny.

go read the arc if your memory is blured all of a sudden. sentry fights WWH and reverse him to baner.

WWH did not beat juggernaut. WWH realized he cant defeat juggernaut and he used a BFR tactic. strage that he did waste time crippling the x men with easy. but when it came to juggernaut who stomped his head into the ground suddenly he chose to bfr and didnt want any of this going further.

moral of the story all top dogs like thor were excluded from the WWH arc so he wont get wooped. all the lesser dogs were not even trying to fight him and still made him gush with green blood.
WWH is mid herald at best.

Originally posted by JuggernautMania
Thor defeated that version of Hulk. oh the irony.

funny because thor took out hulk or was evenly matched with him dozens of times, and all that only in slugfest without even using his powers. nothing but hyperbole statement.

aside of that i will also point out that we dont know the full context and meaning of this statement. thor could have been talking only about the NUL version. therefor when he said i cant beat you and couldnt beat you he meant he couldnt and cant beat Nul. however thor did beat him so thats funny.

go read the arc if your memory is blured all of a sudden. sentry fights WWH and reverse him to baner.

WWH did not beat juggernaut. WWH realized he cant defeat juggernaut and he used a BFR tactic. strage that he did waste time crippling the x men with easy. but when it came to juggernaut who stomped his head into the ground suddenly he chose to bfr and didnt want any of this going further.

moral of the story all top dogs like thor were excluded from the WWH arc so he wont get wooped. all the lesser dogs were not even trying to fight him and still made him gush with green blood.
WWH is mid herald at best.

You're not smart at all. In this same post, you claimed Thor beat Hulk. Thor defeated this version of Hulk by bfring him. Then, in your same post, even though Hulk bfred Juggernaut, you are not claiming it as a victory. At least be consistent with your argument.

Top doge was in WWH. Sentry was there, an all out Sentry. Hercules, an amped Strange...the entire mutant race. An amped Ironman. Etc, etc. I don't know why I am wasting my time debating you anyways, Wolverinos.

Lol...Thor said "and I never could"...which means overall in my opinion. We are done here. I would rather debate against H1 than you. Back on topic, Cytorrak stops at Galactus.

Originally posted by carver9
Cytorrak stops at Galactus.
I disagree.

Originally posted by carver9
You're not smart at all. In this same post, you claimed Thor beat Hulk. Thor defeated this version of Hulk by bfring him. Then, in your same post, even though Hulk bfred Juggernaut, you are not claiming it as a victory. At least be consistent with your argument.

Top doge was in WWH. Sentry was there, an all out Sentry. Hercules, an amped Strange...the entire mutant race. An amped Ironman. Etc, etc. I don't know why I am wasting my time debating you anyways, Wolverinos.

Lol...Thor said "and I never could"...which means overall in my opinion. We are done here. I would rather debate against H1 than you. Back on topic, Cytorrak stops at Galactus.

there is a difference. thor used his powers to force a bfr uppon hulk by using his exotic powers. WWH on the other hand just stepped aside and let juggernaut continue his momentum.thats a different scenario.


a sentry that did not want to fight WWH but wanted to calm him down Lol. hercules? hercules didnt even fight back. the only time he landed a punch on hulk he was gushing green blood haha, hercules was just standing and taking the shots he didnt want to fight. iron man? Lol. the x men? Lol. face it all the big guns were missing because they could tear him apart.

but then thor did Lol so thats kinda dumb. aisde of that he may refer only to the nul version which means during the entire time they fought he never could in his own opinion. at any way your point is invalid both by feats and that statement.

Originally posted by JuggernautMania
there is a difference. thor used his powers to force a bfr uppon hulk by using his exotic powers. WWH on the other hand just stepped aside and let juggernaut continue his momentum.thats a different scenario.


a sentry that did not want to fight WWH but wanted to calm him down Lol. hercules? hercules didnt even fight back. the only time he landed a punch on hulk he was gushing green blood haha, hercules was just standing and taking the shots he didnt want to fight. iron man? Lol. the x men? Lol. face it all the big guns were missing because they could tear him apart.

but then thor did Lol so thats kinda dumb. aisde of that he may refer only to the nul version which means during the entire time they fought he never could in his own opinion. at any way your point is invalid both by feats and that statement.

Hulk slapped him on the back and made him run off. A bfr is a bfr you hypocrite.

Hahahahaha...Sentry didn't want to fight Hulk? Did you even read the story? Read Sentry own words.

Hulk states "you don't want this fight Sentry". Sentry states "God help me I do. You're the onky one I can punch like THIS".

http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/wwh010.jpg.html

Lets continue. Sentry states "you have to tell me something, Hulk. Does it always feel this good to let go?"

http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/wwh020.jpg.html

You honestly need to retire from debating. It's obvious you don't read the comics you debate about.

Show me Hulk gushing green blood. Herc admitted he couldn't beat WWH and that Hulk could have killed him if he didn't hold back.

Are you really downing the Xmen? Two of them gave Thor a fight. A handful of them defeated Juggernaut. And a group of them took on the Avengers and actually stalemated them and they also took on the Serpents as well. The Xmen is an above top tier team, especially with prep.

So you admit Hulk defeated Juggernaut as well? Bfring is bfring (even though it's a cheap tactic, but smart), so give credit where credit is due, hypocrite.

Also, lol at Sentry calming Hulk when we have Hulk going back to WWH levels a couple of panels later.

http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/wwh028.jpg.html

Then to seal the deal, he goes WORLD BREAKER a couple of more panels later. Your argument is untouched.

http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/wwh033.jpg.html

So carver, are you going to explain based on exactly what does Cyttorak get past Odin?

Originally posted by Epicurus
So carver, are you going to explain based on exactly what does Cyttorak get past Odin?

Depends on where the fight takes place. He recently controlled the Phoenix while it was inhibited inside of Piotro but this took place in his realm. The thing about that is, there really isn't any proof that he is weaker outside of it, so he could probably replicate that ft outside of his realm. Another thing is, Trion was a fraction of Cy power and Trion almost destroyed everything with nothing but brute strength. I see no reason on why he wouldn't get past Odin. Hell, if he was to beat Galsctus I wouldn't be surprised.

That's just my opinion though.

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk slapped him on the back and made him run off. A bfr is a bfr you hypocrite.

Hahahahaha...Sentry didn't want to fight Hulk? Did you even read the story? Read Sentry own words.

Hulk states "you don't want this fight Sentry". Sentry states "God help me I do. You're the onky one I can punch like THIS".

http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/wwh010.jpg.html

Lets continue. Sentry states "you have to tell me something, Hulk. Does it always feel this good to let go?"

http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/wwh020.jpg.html

You honestly need to retire from debating. It's obvious you don't read the comics you debate about.

Show me Hulk gushing green blood. Herc admitted he couldn't beat WWH and that Hulk could have killed him if he didn't hold back.

Are you really downing the Xmen? Two of them gave Thor a fight. A handful of them defeated Juggernaut. And a group of them took on the Avengers and actually stalemated them and they also took on the Serpents as well. The Xmen is an above top tier team, especially with prep.

So you admit Hulk defeated Juggernaut as well? Bfring is bfring (even though it's a cheap tactic, but smart), so give credit where credit is due, hypocrite.

Also, lol at Sentry calming Hulk when we have Hulk going back to WWH levels a couple of panels later.

http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/wwh028.jpg.html

Then to seal the deal, he goes WORLD BREAKER a couple of more panels later. Your argument is untouched.

http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/wwh033.jpg.html

Hulk didnt do crap he just stepped aside. the slap on the back was nothing more than a taunt. facts are it was juggernaut who bfrd himself based on his powers.
now thor on the other hand force the bfr with his godly powers on Nul hulk.

Sentry wanted to help hulk and during the whole fight we saw he was trying to calm him down. of course there was a fight indeed, however hulk was pissed off while sentry was still treating him as a friend. eventually WWH did reverse to baner. the fact later he got back to his normal self has nothing to do with the fact sentry literally beat the WWH out of him Lol. and that was the calm bob sentry i dont want to imagine what would happen if viod sentry was beating that green ass.

Hercules did not want to fight hulk and the only strike he landed on hulk made him gush with green blood, its funny and sad that you are boasting his "win" over hercules while hercules didnt even fight back.

the x men? who did WWH fight? as always they were trying to calm him down at the beginning, however later who did he fight? beast? colossus? cyclops? you know whats the most funny thing? you claim WWH is a high herald and yet you brag so much about the fact he beat couple of metas. i dont think anybody would brag about thor beating the same team because for a high herald thats a no problem. it only prove further how desperate you are and that you dont believe yourself that WWH is on the levels you try to present him. nothing but a troll.

i find it funny how mad you got. is it because i touched your most favorite hulk incarnation? or was it because i exposed you for being a puppet to some posters on those boards? either way its funny keep going please.

Originally posted by JuggernautMania
Hulk didnt do crap he just stepped aside. the slap on the back was nothing more than a taunt. facts are it was juggernaut who bfrd himself based on his powers.
now thor on the other hand force the bfr with his godly powers on Nul hulk.

Sentry wanted to help hulk and during the whole fight we saw he was trying to calm him down. of course there was a fight indeed, however hulk was pissed off while sentry was still treating him as a friend. eventually WWH did reverse to baner. the fact later he got back to his normal self has nothing to do with the fact sentry literally beat the WWH out of him Lol. and that was the calm bob sentry i dont want to imagine what would happen if viod sentry was beating that green ass.

Hercules did not want to fight hulk and the only strike he landed on hulk made him gush with green blood, its funny and sad that you are boasting his "win" over hercules while hercules didnt even fight back.

the x men? who did WWH fight? as always they were trying to calm him down at the beginning, however later who did he fight? beast? colossus? cyclops? you know whats the most funny thing? you claim WWH is a high herald and yet you brag so much about the fact he beat couple of metas. i dont think anybody would brag about thor beating the same team because for a high herald thats a no problem. it only prove further how desperate you are and that you dont believe yourself that WWH is on the levels you try to present him. nothing but a troll.

i find it funny how mad you got. is it because i touched your most favorite hulk incarnation? or was it because i exposed you for being a puppet to some posters on those boards? either way its funny keep going please.



Show me sentry reasoning with Hulk.

Show me the Xmen reasoning with Hulk.

Also, lol at the line up you gave. Show me proof of what you are saying or do not reply to me with your homemade assumptions.

Originally posted by carver9
Depends on where the fight takes place. He recently controlled the Phoenix while it was inhibited inside of Piotro but this took place in his realm. The thing about that is, there really isn't any proof that he is weaker outside of it, so he could probably replicate that ft outside of his realm. Another thing is, Trion was a fraction of Cy power and Trion almost destroyed everything with nothing but brute strength. I see no reason on why he wouldn't get past Odin. Hell, if he was to beat Galsctus I wouldn't be surprised.

That's just my opinion though.
Pwning trans tier beings doesn't put him on the same level as Galactus.

Mr Sinister with the power of the Dreaming Celestial completely wrecked all 5 of the P5, and as we know Galactus is easily the Dreaming Celestial's peer in terms of the scale of their power.

Lol no, Trion wasn't a fraction of his power. Trion-Juggs was basically Cain being possessed by Cyttorak and going on a dimension busting rampage.

You see no reason for him to get past Odin? Apart from the fact that for all his bluster in the Devil's Advocay, he didn't even attempt to take on Cul by himself. And Cul is supposed to be well below Odin's level, even before Odin merged with his brothers to create the Odinforce.

So yeah, he's definitely getting past Odin. Though not based on actual on-panel proof, rather your ignorance-fueled wanking of the character.

Originally posted by leonidas
i've always figured him about dormammu level, which is to say about odin level. fp tyrant (the one who battled g so along ago) would likely stop him. from the discussion in the fear itself arc, i was always under the impression that cyttorak was stronger than 2/5 of the pf, but imo he would have been less than the full force, though it's true the full power of the complete force has been somewhat inconsistently depicted.... he's always been notoriously difficult to gauge power-wise. agreed

Originally posted by carver9
Depends on where the fight takes place. He recently controlled the Phoenix while it was inhibited inside of Piotro but this took place in his realm. The thing about that is, there really isn't any proof that he is weaker outside of it, so he could probably replicate that ft outside of his realm. Another thing is, Trion was a fraction of Cy power and Trion almost destroyed everything with nothing but brute strength. I see no reason on why he wouldn't get past Odin. Hell, if he was to beat Galsctus I wouldn't be surprised.

That's just my opinion though.

In that same instance you're referring to, it was clearly attributed to him being inside his domain:

http://i.imgur.com/TuHDtom.jpg

And that's how it's always been right from the beginning; in X-Men v1 #33, Xorak a demon who was created by Cyttorak, says that he may be a normal demon on earth but inside the crimson cosmos he's much more:

http://i.imgur.com/J87y8zD.jpg?1

In the trion instance, it wasn't a "fraction" of Cyttorak's power which was powering Juggernaut; it was as i recall all the evil essence of Cyttorak who infected Cain, and he was getting more and more powerful as he was busting through the dimensional walls (which is much more different than busting actual dimensions).

Anyway, regarding Cyttorak's standing: based on the Eight day arc, Cyttorak is of the same power-level to every other member in Octessence, who are definitely not on Galactus' level and are mostly featless; except one who was previously featured in a previous Dr Strange comic, who was warping reality on a very limited scale when he was nearly at full power (although he was threatening the fabric of reality or some such, but of course on panel nothing of the sort happened, not even the planet was shown to be threatened).

I will respond to the posts in this thread soon.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Pwning trans tier beings doesn't put him on the same level as Galactus.

Mr Sinister with the power of the Dreaming Celestial completely wrecked all 5 of the P5, and as we know Galactus is easily the Dreaming Celestial's peer in terms of the scale of their power.

Lol no, Trion wasn't a fraction of his power. Trion-Juggs was basically Cain being possessed by Cyttorak and going on a dimension busting rampage.

You see no reason for him to get past Odin? Apart from the fact that for all his bluster in the Devil's Advocay, he didn't even attempt to take on Cul by himself. And Cul is supposed to be well below Odin's level, even before Odin merged with his brothers to create the Odinforce.

So yeah, he's definitely getting past Odin. Though not based on actual on-panel proof, rather your ignorance-fueled wanking of the character.

Never said he was on the same level as Galactus. I said I wouldn't be surprised if he was capable of defeating Galactus. Sad thing is, he doesn't have the fts proving this.

Galactus is on the level of the Celestials but that doesn't mean he would approach the fight in the same fashion Sinister did, let alone Cytorrak.

Trion wasn't the full might of Cytorrak, at all. He was only a fraction that was getting more powerful by the second (basically inhibiting Cain body to unknown lengths). Even during the beginning of the power surge Cytorrak offered Cain, he was still ripping through dimensions casually. Cant see Odin or Galactus beating something of this caliber.

Wasn't there context to the Cul showing? Let me look because from what I've read on Cy, he is the most powerful and unstoppable of the demons and actually ruled all on earth until he was captured inside the gem.

Originally posted by operator616
In that same instance you're referring to, it was clearly attributed to him being inside his domain:

http://i.imgur.com/TuHDtom.jpg

And that's how it's always been right from the beginning; in X-Men v1 #33, Xorak a demon who was created by Cyttorak, says that he may be a normal demon on earth but inside the crimson cosmos he's much more:

http://i.imgur.com/J87y8zD.jpg?1

In the trion instance, it wasn't a "fraction" of Cyttorak's power which was powering Juggernaut; it was as i recall all the evil essence of Cyttorak who infected Cain, and he was getting more and more powerful as he was busting through the dimensional walls (which is much more different than busting actual dimensions).

Anyway, regarding Cyttorak's standing: based on the Eight day arc, Cyttorak is of the same power-level to every other member in Octessence, who are definitely not on Galactus' level and are mostly featless; except one who was previously featured in a previous Dr Strange comic, who was warping reality on a very limited scale when he was nearly at full power (although he was threatening the fabric of reality or some such, but of course on panel nothing of the sort happened, not even the planet was shown to be threatened).

I disagree. Your first scan states something we already know. Of course he is in his dimension and of course he has control over the law of physics there but that doesn't mean he is any less powerful outside of it.

Also, your second scan doesn't have a thing to do with Cytorrak, it is in reference to his demon. I can't think of anything that states Cytorrak is weaker outside of his gem, especially when there is proof of him being unstoppable before getting into the gem. His power had dominion over earth until he was trapped inside of the gem.

Originally posted by carver9


Show me sentry reasoning with Hulk.

Show me the Xmen reasoning with Hulk.

Also, lol at the line up you gave. Show me proof of what you are saying or do not reply to me with your homemade assumptions.

read the story sentry is talking with him trying to calm him down.

again read the story when hulk appears at the mension they tell him they dont want any of this and trying to talk him down. during the entire time their main goal was to reason with him.

concede carver you know everything i said is facts from the comics. you got nothing aside of fanboy wankage and imagening your own story. you would like to believe WWH is something special but he really isnt. bashed by juggernaut. bashed by people who didnt even want to fight him. Lol even Warpath managed to paralyze his arms for a while. WWH was bleeding and cut left to right and if it wasnt for his healing factor cyclops would take him down as the very beginning. WWH got raped by zeus like nobody has ever been. he is a bum.

Originally posted by JuggernautMania
read the story sentry is talking with him trying to calm him down.

again read the story when hulk appears at the mension they tell him they dont want any of this and trying to talk him down. during the entire time their main goal was to reason with him.

concede carver you know everything i said is facts from the comics. you got nothing aside of fanboy wankage and imagening your own story. you would like to believe WWH is something special but he really isnt. bashed by juggernaut. bashed by people who didnt even want to fight him. Lol even Warpath managed to paralyze his arms for a while. WWH was bleeding and cut left to right and if it wasnt for his healing factor cyclops would take him down as the very beginning. WWH got raped by zeus like nobody has ever been. he is a bum.

Again, prove your point or I am reporting you for trolling.

OK so skipping the trash talk about Hulk and Juggernaut. As it wasn't really the point of the thread, how does he fair against Tyrant and Galactus?

Originally posted by carver9
Never said he was on the same level as Galactus. I said I wouldn't be surprised if he was capable of defeating Galactus. Sad thing is, he doesn't have the fts proving this.

Galactus is on the level of the Celestials but that doesn't mean he would approach the fight in the same fashion Sinister did, let alone Cytorrak.

Trion wasn't the full might of Cytorrak, at all. He was only a fraction that was getting more powerful by the second (basically inhibiting Cain body to unknown lengths). Even during the beginning of the power surge Cytorrak offered Cain, he was still ripping through dimensions casually. Cant see Odin or Galactus beating something of this caliber.

Wasn't there context to the Cul showing? Let me look because from what I've read on Cy, he is the most powerful and unstoppable of the demons and actually ruled all on earth until he was captured inside the gem.
So you think you don't see Galactus being able to beat creature like Cyttorak, and still claim that you never put him on G's level? What sort of contradictory bullshit is that?

Except for the fact when he has. Or are you unaware of the time when Galactus almost killed the Phoenix? The latter being saved when Roma and Uatu basically begged Galactus not to do it. LOL.

Lol, this is an outright lie. For one, Trion were a collective of otherwordly gods/demons. Basically a bunch of Hell-Lord type beings. Entities which Cyttorak had an ancient beef with. To the point that Cyttorak completely possessed Cain, thereby providing him with all of his power.

Odin and Galactus have broken dimensions, busted galaxies, and beaten nigh-omnipotent beings in direct combat. You mean to tell me that they can't beat the relatively featless Cyttorak? GTFO of here, dude.

Nope, no context at all. Cyttorak was basically going on a rant about how the Serpent's actions were illegal or some shit, just because Cul stole his avatar Cain and empowered him with the power of Kuurth or some crap like that:
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w33/drunkbastard703/13.jpg
He never, not once, tried to confront the Serpent on his own. Instead he relied on venting his frustrations at the Devil's Advocacy like a kid who gets his favorite toy car stolen by a bigger kid on the playground. Heck, Mephisto basically notes that Cyttorak is all bark and no bite in the above scan.

Originally posted by carver9
I disagree. Your first scan states something we already know. Of course he is in his dimension and of course he has control over the law of physics there but that doesn't mean he is any less powerful outside of it.
That's not how Hell-Lords operate, mon ami.

If that was the case, then Illyana wouldn't have been able to break Cyttorak's enchantment within her own realm.

Hell-Lords are supreme only inside of their own dominions. Outside of it, they vary from being high-heralds to trans tier beings.

Originally posted by Epicurus
You see no reason for him to get past Odin? Apart from the fact that for all his bluster in the Devil's Advocay, he didn't even attempt to take on Cul by himself. And Cul is supposed to be well below Odin's level, even before Odin merged with his brothers to create the Odinforce.

So yeah, he's definitely getting past Odin. Though not based on actual on-panel proof, rather your ignorance-fueled wanking of the character.

While I agree Cytorrak isn't beating Odin and the Mephisto comic heavily implies that Cul would rape beings like Mephisto/Nightmare/Cytorrak etc. in a direct fight, I don't think Odin was any weaker when he fought Cul or anything. I'd say he was as powerful as ever and was even rocking the Odin Sword and shit.

In that version of Asgard, Odin is the second eldest and is already an old man by the time he fights Cul in the previous world. Basically, I don't think Walter Simonson's version of the origin of the Odin Force has any relevance here. Whether it's because it's a different Ragnarok cycle or Fraction didn't give a shit, I don't know (Probably the latter though).

Originally posted by carver9
Again, prove your point or I am reporting you for trolling.

whats the matter carver you got cornered so you resort to crying and reporting? reporting what exactly? sentry was trying to calm the hulk down and talk to him. same as the x men when he appeared at the x mension. same as hercules and everybody. they were trying to calm him down while he was berserk and wanted to hurt them badly.

Originally posted by Epicurus
So you think you don't see Galactus being able to beat creature like Cyttorak, and still claim that you never put him on G's level? What sort of contradictory bullshit is that?

Except for the fact when he has. Or are you unaware of the time when Galactus almost killed the Phoenix? The latter being saved when Roma and Uatu basically begged Galactus not to do it. LOL.

Lol, this is an outright lie. For one, Trion were a collective of otherwordly gods/demons. Basically a bunch of Hell-Lord type beings. Entities which Cyttorak had an ancient beef with. To the point that Cyttorak completely possessed Cain, thereby providing him with all of his power.

Odin and Galactus have broken dimensions, busted galaxies, and beaten nigh-omnipotent beings in direct combat. You mean to tell me that they can't beat the relatively featless Cyttorak? GTFO of here, dude.

Nope, no context at all. Cyttorak was basically going on a rant about how the Serpent's actions were illegal or some shit, just because Cul stole his avatar Cain and empowered him with the power of Kuurth or some crap like that:
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w33/drunkbastard703/13.jpg
He never, not once, tried to confront the Serpent on his own. Instead he relied on venting his frustrations at the Devil's Advocacy like a kid who gets his favorite toy car stolen by a bigger kid on the playground. Heck, Mephisto basically notes that Cyttorak is all bark and no bite in the above scan.

Ok he stops at Odin, thanks!

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
While I agree Cytorrak isn't beating Odin and the Mephisto comic heavily implies that Cul would rape beings like Mephisto/Nightmare/Cytorrak etc. in a direct fight, I don't think Odin was any weaker when he fought Cul or anything. I'd say he was as powerful as ever and was even rocking the Odin Sword and shit.

In that version of Asgard, Odin is the second eldest and is already an old man by the time he fights Cul in the previous world. Basically, I don't think Walter Simonson's version of the origin of the Odin Force has any relevance here. Whether it's because it's a different Ragnarok cycle or Fraction didn't give a shit, I don't know (Probably the latter though).
I know that Fraction has a tendency to unwittingly and unnecessarily retcon certain plot elements of the comics of the characters he doesn't have the first clue about(case in point being the circumstances surrounding Bor's death), but I am fairly sure that the Vili and Ve portion was left untouched.

Heck, iirc, the original creation of the Odinforce was even referenced in a Fraction comic. I think Bran of or someone posted scans longtime back in an Odin thread. Let me dig it up.

Originally posted by carver9
I disagree. Your first scan states something we already know. Of course he is in his dimension and of course he has control over the law of physics there but that doesn't mean he is any less powerful outside of it.

Also, your second scan doesn't have a thing to do with Cytorrak, it is in reference to his demon. I can't think of anything that states Cytorrak is weaker outside of his gem, especially when there is proof of him being unstoppable before getting into the gem. His power had dominion over earth until he was trapped inside of the gem.

Do not dream that you can face me here (emphasis on the "here". You mean to tell me that this isn't attributed to Cyttorak being in his domain?

It does and i explained how.

He isn't unstopabble outside his domain, he was destroying some villages until he was imprisoned by Gomurr and Tar when they were inexperienced, no less.

Originally posted by Epicurus
I know that Fraction has a tendency to unwittingly and unnecessarily retcon certain plot elements of the comics of the characters he doesn't have the first clue about(case in point being the circumstances surrounding Bor's death), but I am fairly sure that the Vili and Ve portion was left untouched.

Heck, iirc, the original creation of the Odinforce was even referenced in a Fraction comic. I think Bran of or someone posted scans longtime back in an Odin thread. Let me dig it up.

Obviously it wasn't seeing as how Odin was the eldest, and they were still alive by the time he was an old man who had already sacrificed his eye for wisdom and was rocking the Odin Sword.

I mean, it would be cool if Odin was really weak when he faced Cul but not only does that not make any sense, we'd have to pick and choose what pieces of history fit.

Maybe, but that really doesn't change anything. Freya and Frigga were retconned into the same being but Balder is still Thor's brother. Thor's banishment was referenced but Bor still died at the beginning of time and so on.

One of Fraction's underlying themes is that Gods are stories with multiple histories that are all true and so on. In this particular history, I'm going to assume he was born with the Odin Force or gained it in some other fashion.