JUGGERNUAT Vs SUPERMAN AND WONDER WOMAN

JuggernautMania

flash powers give him greater speed. spider man powers are no use to him. ms marvel powers are no use to him. juggernaut gets owned hard. juggernaut is just too dumb to even use it properly and i dont even think he can survive superman going all out on his ass. i always saw juggernaut as someone who is very resistant to physical damage but to some degree. when onslaught threw him across the whole continent he was hurt and then bishop took him out with electricity. nimrod energeticly effected him, many other times juggernaut physically felt the impact. i say superman punch his head off.

Stoic

Originally posted by JuggernautMania
flash powers give him greater speed. spider man powers are no use to him. ms marvel powers are no use to him. juggernaut gets owned hard. juggernaut is just too dumb to even use it properly and i dont even think he can survive superman going all out on his ass. i always saw juggernaut as someone who is very resistant to physical damage but to some degree. when onslaught threw him across the whole continent he was hurt and then bishop took him out with electricity. nimrod energeticly effected him, many other times juggernaut physically felt the impact. i say superman punch his head off.

Yeah and Juggernaut has also always been a magical creature. He is faster than they are, and if this is Cain at his best, before the nerf he wins this easily. They won't be able to hurt him. Thor hit him, and it did absolutely nothing to him. Superman may hit harder than Thor, but not to the point that he's taking someone down that is this durable, has a Spider Sense, moves faster than he does, and can absorb any energy attack that Superman throws at him. Adding to all of that. he won't tire the way Flash does.

The only thing that would happen is that if Superman punched him, he would end up breaking his own hand, and that's if he manages to hit him. Juggernaut isn't the brightest, but he's far from this poor picture that you're painting of him.

DarkSaint85

How good is Juggy with the powers? With CIS on, it could be absolutely useless..

Bentley

Marco is too stupid. He loses everytime.

Sin I AM

Clark solos. This amalgam is nothing he cant overcome

Stoic

Originally posted by Bentley
Marco is too stupid. He loses everytime.

What? Are they putting together some science puzzle? Is Diana going to show him her titties, while Kal gets on his knees for the old push him over prank? No, this is a fight, Cain knows how to fight, and there is no way that they will hurt him at his best, which will be him at his 8th Day levels. Plus he has the speed of the Flash, and other powers. Why in the hell would he not know how to use his abilities? Is this the only argument that can be used against him? We will assume that he knows how all of his powers work, and that he is not Drax the Destroyer in his infantile form, which he never has been.

Cain has the intellect of a 9th or 10th grader, so unless there are mentally challenged 9th or 10th graders out there, let's assume that he can at least speak, and formulate a plan to take a match that would be his to lose.

DarkSaint85

Yes, agreed. But his speed is nothing that pre DCnU Superman can't handle, plus, h e wouldn't be pulling some of the weirder uses of the Flash powers that Wally took aaages to learn, and Barry couldn't replicate, you see what I mean?

Bart as an adult Flash could do things as a kid no other Flash could replicate etc etc.

If all he's doing is running fast, and super speed punching, Superman and WW could pull a win (haxx lasso that she used). She's definitely, for example, managed to lasso a speeding Flash who had forgotten how to slow down (so an inexperienced Flash who was going at speed).

Superman obviously has kept up with Flash before.

So they could pull a win.

Stoic

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, agreed. But his speed is nothing that pre DCnU Superman can't handle, plus, h e wouldn't be pulling some of the weirder uses of the Flash powers that Wally took aaages to learn, and Barry couldn't replicate, you see what I mean?

Bart as an adult Flash could do things as a kid no other Flash could replicate etc etc.

If all he's doing is running fast, and super speed punching, Superman and WW could pull a win (haxx lasso that she used). She's definitely, for example, managed to lasso a speeding Flash who had forgotten how to slow down (so an inexperienced Flash who was going at speed).

Superman obviously has kept up with Flash before.

So they could pull a win.

He has an indestructible body, he should be able to do what no other toon that had the speed force can do, he will not run out of energy, and need 40 burgers to replenish himself when he is spent, because he never will be spent.

Diana's lasso is not guaranteed to work on him, he is unstoppable, so this is an argument that shouldn't be pressed. The only thing that limited the previous speed force users were their own mental hang ups, Cain won't have any, because he won't possess the same fear of hurting himself as an average person would. He would likely push the limits.

He wouldn't just be running fast, and throwing punches, he would know that they were going to do something before they did it, (due to the spider sense) and have the speed advantage to avoid anything that they could throw at him, and even if they connected, it would not stop him. He would pulverize them.

DarkSaint85

The lasso (pre) compels people to obey WW. Yes, he's unstoppable, but he can stop himself, no? Otherwise, once he runs, he'll never ever ever stop, and we know he does, because he sometimes stands around etc.

And it wasn't just mental limits that stopped them. Speed steals etc were tricks that the Flashes learnt to do.

But I take your point about the precog as well.

Stoic

I'm saying that he may be immune to the lasso's effects, which is why this subject shouldn't be pressed (it's an unknown, and baseless claim).

I really think that this team would need help against him, and even then, he would be a mega team wrecker. Just think of how much more power that he would have with the replicated powers added to his own. People say that Ms. marvel's powers would be useless, but in Cain's stronger body, her blasts would be much more potent, as well as his ability to absorb energy thrown at him. There's a possibility that if he absorbed enough he could go into a sort of Binary form.

Think what you want, but the duo should not win this. They should be beaten rather easily.

Bentley

Originally posted by Stoic
Diana's lasso is not guaranteed to work on him, he is unstoppable, so this is an argument that shouldn't be pressed.

It would work. Provide a resistance to an analogue move, we know that psychic attacks have compelled Juggs to stop in the past.

I don't get your argument at all "it shouldn't be pressed because it's not guaranteed", well you're implying that it might work, so it should be pressed. Unless you can proof it can't work.

Stoic

Originally posted by Bentley
It would work. Provide a resistance to an analogue move, we know that psychic attacks have compelled Juggs to stop in the past.

I don't get your argument at all "it shouldn't be pressed because it's not guaranteed", well you're implying that it might work, so it should be pressed. Unless you can proof it can't work.

He also has his helmet on, with precog abilities, and is faster than both of them combined. He could reverse Diana's move, and tie her up while he takes her half a world away KO'ing her only to be right back in Superman's face an instant later. They would be like statues if he poured it on. To assume, or pretend that he does not know how to use the powers is pretty silly tbh. Do you think Supermex just decided to give him these powers, and he would not know how to use them?

He never has to allow either of these guys to touch him, and all of his weaknesses are shored up, as far as these two go. They lose, unless he allows them to win. they would have a tough time with 8th Day Juggernaut alone, and now he is given the power to give Tyrant a run, and you think that these two will somehow pull off a win? Wow.

DarkSaint85

Yes, he knows how to use his powers. But to what level?

Flash powers
Impulse-level? So he can create speed force avatars, read every book ever written and instantly remember/recall it years later?

Wally-level? So he can speed steal, lend speed, heal at light speeds, create speed force constructs, time travel under his own power, explode objects by running and vibrating through them, IMPs?

Barry-level? So Geoff Johns wankery?

Adult Bart level? So speed steals by looking at people (although Wally can also do this)?

Jay-level? So topping out about supersonic?

Spidey sense
Peter level? So he can effectively use it as pre-cog?

Ock level? So he can only have a vague understanding of where danger is coming from, and being in darkness effectively cancels it out?

Do you see what we mean now? Different users have different levels. To argue that Bart/Jay did not know how to use the SF is stupid. But Wally clearly had more tricks up his sleeve. You can't argue (unless you have proof of course) that all these levels of mastery were due to the Flash's/Spiderman's fear of hurting their own bodies.

Stoic

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, he knows how to use his powers. But to what level?

Flash powers
Impulse-level? So he can create speed force avatars, read every book ever written and instantly remember/recall it years later?

Wally-level? So he can speed steal, lend speed, heal at light speeds, create speed force constructs, time travel under his own power, explode objects by running and vibrating through them, IMPs?

Barry-level? So Geoff Johns wankery?

Adult Bart level? So speed steals by looking at people (although Wally can also do this)?

Jay-level? So topping out about supersonic?

Spidey sense
Peter level? So he can effectively use it as pre-cog?

Ock level? So he can only have a vague understanding of where danger is coming from, and being in darkness effectively cancels it out?

Do you see what we mean now? Different users have different levels. To argue that Bart/Jay did not know how to use the SF is stupid. But Wally clearly had more tricks up his sleeve. You can't argue (unless you have proof of course) that all these levels of mastery were due to the Flash's/Spiderman's fear of hurting their own bodies.

The speed force is different than a pre cog ability, they won't be fighting in a pitch black room so it will work as it should. With his speed advantage over theirs he never has to allow her the opportunity to rope him up, and even if she does, why would it faze him while he has the helmet on? He could just remove it as fast as it was placed on him. In a physical fight Diana wouldn't be able to outfight Cain (not at his best).

Jay Garrick's body isn't nearly as powerful as Cain's none of the Flashes have his strength. What I think is silly, is to believe that he wouldn't be stronger than any Flash is with the speed force. All of the powers granted to him should actually work better on a superior body. After all we already know that he would never be spent, he could run at the speed of light or better forever without tiring.

Maybe he wouldn't be able to speed steal, or maybe he would. One thing is certain, he would be faster than they are. He would also think faster than Spider Man, and would be able to react to anything that they could toss his way before they did so, as I pointed out before. I'm wondering what your deal is with this anyways? It's a stomp in Cain's favor. He has all of the tools to break these two with ease.

He's also magical. what happens if he hit's Superman at light speed?

DarkSaint85

I'm just saying, the body does not make a lick of difference to a SF user. It's their mastery and their intelligence that unlocks the different usages of their powers. What difference does having a frailer body make if you can heal at light speed?

I brought up SpOck because it obviously has a bearing on his skill with the Spider sense. Not everyone is as proficient as Peter was with his.

IF for example, he has Jay's level of control, then Superman can speed blitz him. Arguably, if he had Wally's, then he could also be speed blitzed. Wally subconsciously LIMITED himself so he could never attain Barry's level of speed, for example. Then he upgraded. So he's faster than Barry, who Supes has kept up with before, and Diana has lassoed Wally before whilst he was running all over the place.

And if he had SpOck's level of control of the Spidey sense, then its useless. Because SpOck has been speed blitzed before.

DarkSaint85

Also, how would he be faster? It's not a body thing. A Kryptonian Flash isn't faster than a human Flash. Once you tap into the Speed Force, human limitations are gone.

JuggernautMania

Originally posted by Stoic
Yeah and Juggernaut has also always been a magical creature. He is faster than they are, and if this is Cain at his best, before the nerf he wins this easily. They won't be able to hurt him. Thor hit him, and it did absolutely nothing to him. Superman may hit harder than Thor, but not to the point that he's taking someone down that is this durable, has a Spider Sense, moves faster than he does, and can absorb any energy attack that Superman throws at him. Adding to all of that. he won't tire the way Flash does.

The only thing that would happen is that if Superman punched him, he would end up breaking his own hand, and that's if he manages to hit him. Juggernaut isn't the brightest, but he's far from this poor picture that you're painting of him.

i am a juggernaut fan i know what i am talking about. what i really dont like is people trying to twist the character into something its not. juggernaut is very durable but we saw him being hurt many times like all the showings i pointed out and stated. superman will punch him into orbit, and only someone who lacks any knowledge at all would even believe superman can break his hand on juggernaut.
juggy is my boy and i know what he is capable of as well as his limits, i dont like the wanking fest thats going on here where people believe juggernaut cant be hurt.

Sin I AM

Stoic is reaching. Marko doesn't even have a complete understanding of his own powers let alone the flashes. Diana solos

abhilegend

Superman has never been a statue to a Flash. That myth needs to stop. Frankly I'm about to post every scan of Superman racing Flash right now if this nonsense doesn't stop.

JuggernautMania

Superman can easily match flash both in travel speed and specially in combat speed.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman has never been a statue to a Flash. That myth needs to stop. Frankly I'm about to post every scan of Superman racing Flash right now if this nonsense doesn't stop.

Lol. I knew if he went on you'd make an appearance. And that's not a jibe.

abhilegend

Originally posted by JuggernautMania
Superman can easily match flash both in travel speed and specially in combat speed.
No, he can't. Flash IS the fastest man alive. But Superman is right next to him in speed and Cain doesn't have the experience of Flashes to compensate for Superman's own experience.

maxivitopowe

Are you guys forgeting he can also fly, whilst also having the acrobatic graces of spiderman?

even if he doesnt get full mastery of all the powers he should be fast and agile enough to get all the licks in whilst avoiding the two

carver9

abhilegend

Originally posted by carver9
When Flash and Zoom fought?
Flash was amped on the powers of Jay and Jesse Quick. Just nine issues later Superman had an issue long race with him.

carver9

But you also have to take into consideration that Flash never went all out against Superman. When he did, the speed difference was, how can I say it, substantial, aka, insane.

JuggernautMania

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, he can't. Flash IS the fastest man alive. But Superman is right next to him in speed and Cain doesn't have the experience of Flashes to compensate for Superman's own experience.

there were 2 races already where superman matched him. also by fighting speed superman blitzed characters many times and was stated to be operating at light speed while fighting.

DarkSaint85

carver9

Originally posted by JuggernautMania
there were 2 races already where superman matched him. also by fighting speed superman blitzed characters many times and was stated to be operating at light speed while fighting.

When was it stated he was operating at light speed when fighting? Everyone and their grandma has been asking for this. Scans.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And you have to take into account Supes never went all out...

I understood what the comic was trying to tell us when Flash smoked him. Why didn't you grasp it?

h1a8

Originally posted by carver9
Spiderman powers is pointless. Juggernaut stomps.

Spidey would give him pre-cog. He wouldn't have to react. He would just move before the attack started. Or stop the attack before it began.

Jugg stomps hard.

carver9

Originally posted by h1a8
Spidey would give him pre-cog. He wouldn't have to react. He would just move before the attack started. Or stop the attack before it began.

Jugg stomps hard.

Flash speed makes precog pointless. It's also slower than Wonder Woman and Superman speed. Remember, speed demon was moving faster than Spidermans spider sense.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
I understood what the comic was trying to tell us when Flash smoked him. Why didn't you grasp it?

Because writer's intent doesn't always count?

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because writer's intent doesn't always count?

In this case it did since Superman was trying to catch Flash.

abhilegend

Originally posted by carver9
But you also have to take into consideration that Flash never went all out against Superman. When he did, the speed difference was, how can I say it, substantial, aka, insane.
Only when he entered in the speed force, before that Superman was matching him just fine.Originally posted by carver9
When was it stated he was operating at light speed when fighting? Everyone and their grandma has been asking for this. Scans.
I've posted the scans several times. Nth times is the charm as they say.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_superman709008.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_superman709010.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_superman709011.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_superman709012.jpg

Also Flash going faster than he has ever gone was noticed by Superman.

http://i.imgur.com/BxSVkqe.jpg

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=FC07-012.jpg
http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=FC07-013.jpg

So, no. Flash's speed gap isn't substantial while he doesn't enter speed force. Although I know you'll forget them one hour later from now.

Originally posted by carver9
I understood what the comic was trying to tell us when Flash smoked him. Why didn't you grasp it?
The comic said that Flash while entering speed force is faster than Superman and Superman/Flash are evenly matched without that.

abhilegend

And notice how Flashes had to go faster than they had ever gone to enter the personal singularity of Darkseid?

http://i.imgur.com/bTTGYKl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0ftYh3c.jpg

Superman matched their speed by entering the singularity. Suck on it flash fanboys.

JuggernautMania

i dont believe there are flash fanboys in here. i believe its the hatered to superman that fuels people to make such arguments. funniest thing is if any marvel top herald would have 50% of the showings superman has, they would place that character as trans already.

abhilegend

Man, I'd forgotten how badass Morrison's Superman was.

abhilegend

Originally posted by JuggernautMania
i dont believe there are flash fanboys in here. i believe its the hatered to superman that fuels people to make such arguments. funniest thing is if any marvel top herald would have 50% of the showings superman has, they would place that character as trans already.
I know. Wait for carver to spin it though.

carver9

Originally posted by abhilegend
Only when he entered in the speed force, before that Superman was matching him just fine.
I've posted the scans several times. Nth times is the charm as they say.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_superman709008.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_superman709010.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_superman709011.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_superman709012.jpg

Also Flash going faster than he has ever gone was noticed by Superman.

http://i.imgur.com/BxSVkqe.jpg

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=FC07-012.jpg
http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=FC07-013.jpg

So, no. Flash's speed gap isn't substantial while he doesn't enter speed force. Although I know you'll forget them one hour later from now.

The comic said that Flash while entering speed force is faster than Superman and Superman/Flash are evenly matched without that.

Superman didn't see Flash during that instance, crazy. Flash had to REACH DARKSEID by going beyond the speed of light, that doesn't mean he had to outrace the Omegas at the same speed, crazy, and you better not say the Omegas are FTL.

Nice speed ft for Superman keeping up with a moving Flash that was mind controlled. How fast was flash going during that instance, and you better not base that off the statement of him SINGING/SPEAKING at a certain speed.

I agree though, Superman, Martian Manhunter, and Wonder Woman has kept up with Flash, doesn't mean they are on or even close to his level as proven when he really goes all out.

Also, when was it said he used the speed force during that instance? Maybe I missed something?

JuggernautMania

in my country people normally bench press 80 Kilograms. i bench press 100 kg and people are like wow thats a very good weight. i know very few people in my area that can bench press above 100 kg, several can go up to 120 but thats it thats the limit.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by abhilegend
I know. Wait for carver to spin it though.

Flash fact: He's better.

Bentley

Originally posted by Stoic
He also has his helmet on, with precog abilities, and is faster than both of them combined. He could reverse Diana's move, and tie her up while he takes her half a world away KO'ing her only to be right back in Superman's face an instant later. They would be like statues if he poured it on. To assume, or pretend that he does not know how to use the powers is pretty silly tbh. Do you think Supermex just decided to give him these powers, and he would not know how to use them?

He never has to allow either of these guys to touch him, and all of his weaknesses are shored up, as far as these two go. They lose, unless he allows them to win. they would have a tough time with 8th Day Juggernaut alone, and now he is given the power to give Tyrant a run, and you think that these two will somehow pull off a win? Wow.

So you drop the "cannot be affected by the lasso because we aren't sure it would work" nonsense?

Anyways, I think it's expected for Marco to do worse than Flash when using his powers, Flash has a powerset that actually needs creativity and effort frot it's users as it was made clear by Wally's experience. If this was Flash with Juggernaut's power the situation would be inversed, Wally would be an inferior Juggernaut (think of Colossusnaut) because he isn't used to those powers. If the OP decides Marco gets full control of those abilities, then he's essentially dropping Marco and making a superior character.

JuggernautMania

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Flash fact: He's better.

how much can you bench press?

abhilegend

Originally posted by carver9
Superman didn't see Flash during that instance, crazy. Flash had to REACH DARKSEID by going beyond the speed of light, that doesn't mean he had to outrace the Omegas at the same speed, crazy, and you better not say the Omegas are FTL.

Nice speed ft for Superman keeping up with a moving Flash that was mind controlled. How fast was flash going during that instance, and you better not base that off the statement of him SINGING/SPEAKING at a certain speed.

I agree though, Superman, Martian Manhunter, and Wonder Woman has kept up with Flash, doesn't mean they are on or even close to his level as proven when he really goes all out.

Also, when was it said he used the speed force during that instance? Maybe I missed something?
Haha, what? Superman recognizes and mutters "Barry Allen" as Flashes went by FTL as Black Racer was hot on their heels. If they had slowed down, Black Racer would've caught them. Even by your standards, that's stupid. Flash had to go faster than EVER to reach darkseid and Superman reached Darkseid from outside too. Guess you can't add 2+2.

Why not? You can't talk at hyperspeed without being at hyperspeed yourself.

Flash had ditched everyone else at that point when Superman matched him.

Flash entered Speed Force after "they were for charity" line. It only shows Flash is faster than Superman when he enters Speed Force. Without it, he was matched by Superman.

carver9

Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, what? Superman recognizes and mutters "Barry Allen" as Flashes went by FTL as Black Racer was hot on their heels. If they had slowed down, Black Racer would've caught them. Even by your standards, that's stupid. Flash had to go faster than EVER to reach darkseid and Superman reached Darkseid from outside too. Guess you can't add 2+2.

Why not? You can't talk at hyperspeed without being at hyperspeed yourself.

Flash had ditched everyone else at that point when Superman matched him.

Flash entered Speed Force after "they were for charity" line. It only shows Flash is faster than Superman when he enters Speed Force. Without it, he was matched by Superman.

Even though Wally said time stops at light speed? Ok. I admit though, it's a good showing for Supes to see them while they were moving at high velocity. That's not one of his best perception ft though. He could've heard them talking as well.

Lol...Flash has stood still while talking at super speed. That doesn't mean anything ABHI.

Flash didn't ditch everyone else, what I got from it is, they gave Superman and Flash space to talk.

Show me him using the speed force during that instance when he smoked Superman.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9

Show me him using the speed force during that instance when he smoked Superman.

Writer's intent, that Flash at normal levels is Superman level speed, then when he kicks it up to the next gear, he leaves him behind mad

All moot, anyway, as Sin said, MArko isn't even proficient in Juggy powers, let alone Flash.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Writer's intent, that Flash at normal levels is Superman level speed, then when he kicks it up to the next gear, he leaves him behind mad

All moot, anyway, as Sin said, MArko isn't even proficient in Juggy powers, let alone Flash.

laughing out loud

I'm just asking for proof that he used it during that instance. I don't think Flash is Superman level before using the speed force. I think he is far above it.

abhilegend

Originally posted by carver9
Even though Wally said time stops at light speed? Ok. I admit though, it's a good showing for Supes to see them while they were moving at high velocity. That's not one of his best perception ft though. He could've heard them talking as well.

Lol...Flash has stood still while talking at super speed. That doesn't mean anything ABHI.

Flash didn't ditch everyone else, what I got from it is, they gave Superman and Flash space to talk.

Show me him using the speed force during that instance when he smoked Superman.
Superman didn't hear them talking, he scanned flash and found out its Barry. That was Flashes going FASTER than they ever had and Superman wasn't a statue.

Flash has never talked at hyperspeed without going at hyperspeed. You have to stop this BS.

Hahaha, you would do everything to lowball Superman. Face it, wonder woman got smoked like a ***** and Superman matched Barry.

Just after that scan, this happens.

http://s12.postimg.org/o3bo2np6x/ccf1221201000004.jpg

So you can see Flash having to enter speed force to outrun Superman. Not bad for Superman.

JuggernautMania

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Writer's intent, that Flash at normal levels is Superman level speed, then when he kicks it up to the next gear, he leaves him behind mad

All moot, anyway, as Sin said, MArko isn't even proficient in Juggy powers, let alone Flash.

but how much can you bench press????

DarkSaint85

None of this matters.

OP could give Juggy a GL ring, but without training/creativity/willpower, its useless. Even if had, it takes a certain willpower to do so (c.f. Green Arrow).

We don't automatically share out all GL feats from Hal, do we?

Same with Flash. Am assuming Juggy is at LEAST moving faster, far faster, than he ever has. But to give him Wally/Barry level control, when I could just as easily give him Jay Garrick level control, is silly.

carver9

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman didn't hear them talking, he scanned flash and found out its Barry. That was Flashes going FASTER than they ever had and Superman wasn't a statue.

Flash has never talked at hyperspeed without going at hyperspeed. You have to stop this BS.

Hahaha, you would do everything to lowball Superman. Face it, wonder woman got smoked like a ***** and Superman matched Barry.

Just after that scan, this happens.

http://s12.postimg.org/o3bo2np6x/ccf1221201000004.jpg

So you can see Flash having to enter speed force to outrun Superman. Not bad for Superman.

But Flash saying that time stops when achieving light speed.

Flash has talked at super speed while standing still, crazy. Him and Superman just did that in a diner, after the scans you posted. Sitting at a table, talking at super speed without moving a leg muscle.

Wonder Woman has kept up with the Flashes on many of occasions. Be quiet.

Post the scan before the scan you posted.

abhilegend

Originally posted by carver9
But Flash saying that time stops when achieving light speed.

Flash has talked at super speed while standing still, crazy. Him and Superman just did that in a diner, after the scans you posted. Sitting at a table, talking at super speed without moving a leg muscle.

Wonder Woman has kept up with the Flashes on many of occasions. Be quiet.

Post the scan before the scan you posted.
Superman has owned time stops before. No big deal.

Not on hyperspeeds. They were talking at the same speed as their body were speeded up. Barry was eating at super speed.

No, she hasn't. Barry has owned her several times. Heck a clone of Barry Allen has blitzed her like nothing.

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/11897291_13.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/11897292_14.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/11897293_15.jpg

Damn, Barry ****ing owned wonder woman not even going at full speed. He could only do that to superman when he entered speed force.

JBL

Juggernaut in a stomp. Neither Superman nor Wonder Woman is a match for flashes speed. I could drive beside a dragster at 100 mph until the driver gets tired of playing with me. Flash DOES NOT dust superman or WW until he gets tired of playing with them. They are his friends, the reason flash in on their team is because when a level of speed that would make every other member look stupid, Flash gets the call.

abhilegend

Superman matched their fastest speed in final crisis by their own words. It doesn't gets more clear than that.

JBL

Superman would never in his life be able to save those people that flash saved from that explosion by carrying one or two people at a time. This is pure comedy thinking that superman is flash equal in speed. confused

Sin I AM

I love how abhi keeps posting proof that's casually ignored for assinine baseless opinions. KMC Debating at its finest. thumb up

JBL

And i love how people twist scans and get corrected. Superman is not as fast as flash and neither is wonder woman.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/146755/2831514-wwvf2.png

Heres proof of WW comparing herself to flash. We all know that WW is faster in combat than superman ( for some strange reason that proof gets hated on ) Flash is the fast member of the JLA period. Thats his position in the group. WOW! To claim that superman is as fast as flash completely nullify flashes position an speaks volume about knowledge of a character in a group that consists of superman and wonder woman and is PLAINLY stated that flash is the FASTEST of them all. As i stated before... Comedy at its best.

DarkSaint85

Not that it matters. Marko wouldn't be able to tap fully into it due to his dumb nature.

DarkSaint85

Hell, even when he was upgraded as Kuurth, his dumbness held him back. He could fly etc, but chose not to,because that's what he was used to.

celeyhyga17

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hell, even when he was upgraded as Kuurth, his dumbness held him back. He could fly etc, but chose not to,because that's what he was used to.
He was creating a path of destruction.. Which in turn wa causing fear..

He flew when he wanted to..

carver9

There was no need for him to fly since he was leaving his fear mark on the ground with every footstep. Then, that wasn't Cain, at all. Nothing about him was Cain.

DarkSaint85

Evidence of Cain being intelligent with his powers?

Sin I AM

Originally posted by JBL
And i love how people twist scans and get corrected. Superman is not as fast as flash and neither is wonder woman.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/146755/2831514-wwvf2.png

Heres proof of WW comparing herself to flash. We all know that WW is faster in combat than superman ( for some strange reason that proof gets hated on ) Flash is the fast member of the JLA period. Thats his position in the group. WOW! To claim that superman is as fast as flash completely nullify flashes position an speaks volume about knowledge of a character in a group that consists of superman and wonder woman and is PLAINLY stated that flash is the FASTEST of them all. As i stated before... Comedy at its best.

the proof is there though ^ . Unles he taps into the SF Superman and Flash have comparable speed. Chock it up to his dynamic powerset, hate all you want but thats just how uber that <S> shield is. And the naysayers are totally disregarding the fact that Cain has NEVER used his powers in a creative or innovative manner. Let alone master a totally new powerset while fighting two top tier opponents

maxivitopowe

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Are you guys forgeting he can also fly, whilst also having the acrobatic graces of spiderman?

even if he doesnt get full mastery of all the powers he should be fast and agile enough to get all the licks in whilst avoiding the two

Sin I AM

Spiderman's powers are moot at that level of play

Stoic

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Evidence of Cain being intelligent with his powers?

I see that there is a lot of evidence of you ignoring the idea that he would know how to use his powers. Who cares if he uses flight? Maybe he doesn't like the Tinkerbell feeling, maybe he prefers to keep his feet on the ground, or the writers themselves felt that he would be less Juggernaut if he flew.

This is no excuse for you to continue saying the same bullshit page after page. You want us to believe that, yes he has super speed, but he can not run fast, he has a spider sense, but he does not know how to use it, while it is an innate ability (it works on its own), you want us to believe that he does not know that he can turn into a magical Binary type of being, even though he was jumping up and down when he realized that he could increase his power dramatically?

You're wasting time, and the head game should end, because I realize that this is what you are doing. Are you calling Cain dumb, or the people that are forced to read your opinion on this? I thought that we got to the point that he knows how to use the effing powers? No seriously though. Supermex gave him powers that he does not have an inkling of how to phucking use!!!

guy222

Juggernaut probably loses

JBL

1.http://s615.photobucket.com/user/ScarletSpeed/media/Superman709-025.jpg.html

2.http://i.imgur.com/lXPCLin.jpg

3.http://www.4thletter.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/flash-only-01.jpg

No one is saying superman is slow, but he's no flash either. Juggernaut would destroy both superman and WW with flash speed.

Stoic

Originally posted by JBL
1.http://s615.photobucket.com/user/ScarletSpeed/media/Superman709-025.jpg.html

2.http://i.imgur.com/lXPCLin.jpg

3.http://www.4thletter.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/flash-only-01.jpg

No one is saying superman is slow, but he's no flash either. Juggernaut would destroy both superman and WW with flash speed.

Exactly. They have no answer for all of his defenses in the first place. Giving him this kind of speed makes their chances even lower. I can see how a writer would give the duo the win, but in a forum, where PIS is limited to zilch, they lose.

Sin I AM

Your debating characters nor powersets

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Stoic
I see that there is a lot of evidence of you ignoring the idea that he would know how to use his powers. Who cares if he uses flight? Maybe he doesn't like the Tinkerbell feeling, maybe he prefers to keep his feet on the ground, or the writers themselves felt that he would be less Juggernaut if he flew.

This is no excuse for you to continue saying the same bullshit page after page. You want us to believe that, yes he has super speed, but he can not run fast, he has a spider sense, but he does not know how to use it, while it is an innate ability (it works on its own), you want us to believe that he does not know that he can turn into a magical Binary type of being, even though he was jumping up and down when he realized that he could increase his power dramatically?

You're wasting time, and the head game should end, because I realize that this is what you are doing. Are you calling Cain dumb, or the people that are forced to read your opinion on this? I thought that we got to the point that he knows how to use the effing powers? No seriously though. Supermex gave him powers that he does not have an inkling of how to phucking use!!!

I actually gave you examples of different Flashes who had different skills and different powers. Wally admits Barry knows more Flash Facts and knows how to use his powers more creatively.

Bart, having internalised the Speed Force, had the potential to be even faster.

Jay Garrick, never got that level of control or speed.

Spock, a much cleverer man then Marko, was unable to fully utilise the Spider Sense, or the proportional strength EVEN THOUGH HE HAD THE SAME BODY.

So yeah, my argument is that Juggy won't fully utilise his new powers. He has them, yes, but he won't be able to unlock its true potential, and will lose.

When Flash doesn't unlock his true potential, he gets tagged. Simpleas. This isn't some scientist like Barry who has the SF, its essentially Rhino.

iscaremonkeys

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Clark solos. get out

abhilegend

Originally posted by JBL
And i love how people twist scans and get corrected. Superman is not as fast as flash and neither is wonder woman.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/146755/2831514-wwvf2.png But Superman IS as FAST as Barry Allen while holding back.

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/barysupesholdingback.jpg

That's Barry Allen himself comparing himself to Superman.

Because that isn't a proof. Wonder Woman said she is as strong as Captain Marvel isn't a proof either. Its just a statement which you cling on for dear life. Nobody said Superman is as fast as Flash. He is closer than everybody thinks though.

abhilegend

Originally posted by JBL
1.http://s615.photobucket.com/user/ScarletSpeed/media/Superman709-025.jpg.html Superman just caught Flash by racing him. Pardon me but that's better than Barry nursing his ego.

Entering speed force. Non applicable.

Amped on 3 other Flashes' speed. Non applicable.

He is FASTER than Wonder Woman though.

wink

JBL

Originally posted by abhilegend
But Superman IS as FAST as Barry Allen while holding back.

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/barysupesholdingback.jpg

That's Barry Allen himself comparing himself to Superman.

Because that isn't a proof. Wonder Woman said she is as strong as Captain Marvel isn't a proof either. Its just a statement which you cling on for dear life. Nobody said Superman is as fast as Flash. He is closer than everybody thinks though. Just like you cling on statements by an unknown never seen again alien woman that said superman was the strongest on earth? How about statements from batman or lex luthor that you cling to??? But the minute a statement goes against superman its " JUST A STATEMENT THEN HUH?? LOL. It means nothing then right? Statements that help superman are embraced yet the hurtful ones are cast aside? Its good for the goose but not for the gander huh?? you believe batman when he says superman regulates his powers on a sub-concious level but when batman says WW is faster reflex wise you call it a lie???? WOW!

abhilegend

Originally posted by JBL
Just like you cling on statements by an unknown never seen again alien woman that said superman was the strongest on earth? Haha, what? That woman was Morgan Le Fey.

http://i.imgur.com/QOP6DVX.jpg

I'm sure she has seen her fair share of strong people.

Without proof backing it up, yes a statement only. Because there is actual evidence that Superman regulates his power at subconscious level. There are dozens of instances where Superman proves faster than Wonder Woman in combat. Not a single time in her favor though.

maxivitopowe

since there is so much argument over Juggs knowing Flash's power how bout the other way round?

JBL

Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, what? That woman was Morgan Le Fey.

http://i.imgur.com/QOP6DVX.jpg

I'm sure she has seen her fair share of strong people.

Without proof backing it up, yes a statement only. Because there is actual evidence that Superman regulates his power at subconscious level. There are dozens of instances where Superman proves faster than Wonder Woman in combat. Not a single time in her favor though. Morgan Le Fey huh? You put all your stock in trying to elevate superman above every character in his class. Writers themselves along with comic book proof states that the likes of superman, BA, CM and plenty others are in the same strength class, yet you....... you know something.... just forget it..... Superman is the strongest, fastest, most agile, most powerful character of them all, he cannot lose ever. He's the best at everything. End