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Mundus is dead, and Vergil has made his intention to rule over thw humans known to his brother. Dante is not amused, as he wanta true freedom for humanity.

But before the battle between the brothers could begin, Kat narrowly avoids getting impaled from above by a long ass Masamune.

Sephiroth has arrived on Earth.

The two sons of Sparda decide to put their battle on hold to face this new threat.

Sephiroth can rapetrain the DMC-verse

He takes flight and nukes these two from high up while chillin' in his barrier

DmC? Die easily.

From DmC? They die. From the original story arc? Sephiroth gets murdered.

You need to lurk moar old timer

Final Fantasy has been way above DMC (even excluding universals for FF) for quite some time now

DmC? Completely.

What's making Sephiroth so much greater than the original Dante and Vergil?

Being awesome?

http://images1.fanpop.com/images/photos/1900000/Sephiroth-vs-cloud-sephiroth-1901848-320-240.gif

Really? The original Dante could take down Sephiroth alone. Adding in the original Vergil is just overkill.

Originally posted by DarkestSonata
What's making Sephiroth so much greater than the original Dante and Vergil?

Given all the recent boosts Final Fantasy has gained over the last year or 2?

Sephiroth has at least low end town level strength, country level durability and destructive capacity and barriers, is massively hypersonic (Mach 100+ or so), can fly and has massive telekinesis and various other haxes like time stops, petrification, dispelling status effects, instant death spells and such fun shit

Hell, as much as it feels awkward saying, I don't think Dante could really beat any FF character who can throw their weight with all the boosts and upgrades they've gotten over the recent years. At best you could argue he has multi-block strength, gigaton level energy projection with Mach 20 speed



The **** you talkin' about dude? Sephiroth can and would lobotomise the entire DMC-verse

Where are all the updates to Sephiroth coming from? It seems I truly am out of the loop, because a few years ago I wouldn't have been wrong.

Of course dante and vergil would win. but Sephiroth will make a good fight.

Is there still no answer for where these power boosts came from? I've played ff7 and crisis core, and watched advent children. That Sephiroth would die. Where is the evidence of his great abilities coming from?

Does any of that negate the fact that a bullet can both tag and critically injure Cloud, who's not far from Seph's physical level?

Guns are generally overrated as shit in fiction, generally harming characters they shouldn't be able to

Stating that Cloud can tank a bullet?

Well given his durability feats (surviving attacks from Loz and Yazoo on the roofs, which were calced to be country busting I believe and is superior to Reno and Rude who tanked their own bomb which calced to be 100 KT or whatever it was), yeah

Guns are, indeed, overrated by fictional authors who tend to lack an understanding of how pressure and whatnot work (our best guns would be worthless against guys who can tank city block busting attacks)

Kind of the reason most of us tend to just ignore shit like Whitebeard being shot to death by muskets (18th century firearm with transonic velocities vs a small country buster ... )

So even if it's consistent, we ignore bullet damage in meta-humans above city-block?


How did you (well, they) get country busting from that small explosion that barely damaged the local area?

Welcome to fiction where battles between planet busters only creates city block sized craters (I was talking about DBZ, btw)

Ultima did this just by impacting the ground and again with it's death throes

Then Jenova (who Sephi-chan FF7 onwards at least should be scaleable to) who's at least this powerful

Weapon craters

Bahamut's Tera Flare

Energy of Huge Materias (which could be scaled to the shit the SHM were using)

Prolly more, but that should suffice

EDIT: As for bullet damage against characters with durability logically beyond it, well either their guns happen to be fire bullets with an extremely low surface area and/or extreme velocities, or you could just chalk it up to inconsistency (and given how pithy .22 caliber guns would be in the scheme of things, why wouldn't you)

So can any bullet wound feats be ignored if the verse has several city-block feats?

Aren't we forgetting about Dante's Regeneration??? Dude took a freakin sword through his chest multiple times and survived, he was smashed by Nero's superhuman strength in the face multiple times and suffered almost no damage, in fact, he usually leaves these battles unscathed. (I won't ignore the fact that Vergil somehow pulled some bullshit and almost killed a near invulnerable being.) I honestly think this will be a stalemate.

Originally posted by BloodRain
So can any bullet wound feats be ignored if the verse has several city-block feats?

Well, given most vs sites in general tend to ignore low end showings, then why wouldn't we?

Unless guns in that verse happen to be that ****ing powerful

Otherwise, just say inconsistency and go about our day, frankly

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Aren't we forgetting about Dante's Regeneration??? Dude took a freakin sword through his chest multiple times and survived, he was smashed by Nero's superhuman strength in the face multiple times and suffered almost no damage, in fact, he usually leaves these battles unscathed. (I won't ignore the fact that Vergil somehow pulled some bullshit and almost killed a near invulnerable being.) I honestly think this will be a stalemate.

Regeneration won't help him against attacks far more energetic than anything shown in DMC to date

And no, Vergil's just physically powerful enough to harm him. Derp

Dante's as physically powerful prolly, though he's outclassed in energy projection and magic

Well we don't usually iirc ignore low ends unless they're kin to one-off outliers.

Like I wouldn't claim bullets would bounce off Dante's skin because he's tanked much higher damage.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Well we don't usually iirc ignore low ends unless they're kin to one-off outliers.

Like I wouldn't claim bullets would bounce off Dante's skin because he's tanked much higher damage.

Dante: -Gets shot in the head in DMC3- "What the hell was that for? I save you and you show me your thanks by shooting me??" I think thats what he said, anyway, Dante isn't just a bullet timer, he's also a bullet TANKER.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Well we don't usually iirc ignore low ends unless they're kin to one-off outliers.

Like I wouldn't claim bullets would bounce off Dante's skin because he's tanked much higher damage.

Kratos has been harmed by arrows, weapons from mooks and shrapnel from small explosions in the novelisations. We tend to ignore those as we all know Kratos' notable feats blow those out of the water

Primarchs have been harmed by bolters before. We ignore those because Primarchs have tanked far worse and even weaker beings have tanked boltguns

Goes on, guns are overrated in fiction

Or it's just how that fiction works?

When I brought this up a year ago, using Dante as the example, it was openly confirmed by all posting that while logically it shouldn't happen, if the fiction makes it a known fact and it's not some one off, then that fiction allows that to happen for whatever reason.

Sephiroth

I'm necro'ing a bunch of Dante vs Sephiroth threads just because.

Also, Stealth, you never did claim where you got all Seph's feats from. When has it even been stated that Seph was mach 100, and DON'T say "well, it's obvious from his movements that he's mach 100".

Vergil literally has shown speed similar to that of Sephiroth in Advent Children and Crisis Core/Last Order.

His blade moves so fast that I'd say it rivals Seph's sword slashes.

Originally posted by StealthRanger

Primarchs have been harmed by bolters before. We ignore those because Primarchs have tanked far worse and even weaker beings have tanked boltguns

the result of multiple writers on a single property, games rarely have this problem.

Dante is the better fighter and is fast enough to catch seph.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Also, Stealth, you never did claim where you got all Seph's feats from. When has it even been stated that Seph was mach 100, and DON'T say "well, it's obvious from his movements that he's mach 100".

Cloud was able to pass the Whirlwind Maze's whirlinds, which was calc'd at Mach 100 or so

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=19207



Vergil has no quantifiable speed feats himself, only powerscaling off Dante who's best speed feat is Mach 15 ish



You need to lurk more mate, Final Fantasy has been head over heels above DMC for quite some time now, even without their universals+

Speed relies on time and matter, Sephiroth can freeze time and teleport near effortlessly in mid-combat.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Cloud was able to pass the Whirlwind Maze's whirlinds, which was calc'd at Mach 100 or so

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=19207



Vergil has no quantifiable speed feats himself, only powerscaling off Dante who's best speed feat is Mach 15 ish



You need to lurk more mate, Final Fantasy has been head over heels above DMC for quite some time now, even without their universals+

I'm talking about those barrage of blades that surround the vergil whenever takes a f*cking step.

He also has teleportation, but not on Seph's level.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Speed relies on time and matter, Sephiroth can freeze time and teleport near effortlessly in mid-combat.

coughQUICKSILVERcough

On a side note, Dante with all of his abilities put this on a spite level. You know he is still much faster considering he has abilities and a weapon that alone is stated to grant him lightning fast speed

Hell, honestly, most mid tier FF characters can obliterate both Dante and Vergil, having the strength, speed, durability, DC and even hax to destroy them

Sephiroth is one of the most powerful non universals outside of Kefka, Kuja, Golbez, Cecil, The Emperor, etc

You don't put DMC characters against them, it's extreme overkill

I think someone just completely skipped over Dante having literal lightning speed from a hax weapon and hax ability... Or the fact they would have enough trouble actually hurting either of these two in the first place.

Right, because "lightning speed" doesn't sound like some kind of hyperbole commonly used throughout fiction or anything

And, Sephiroth's barrier tanking the Junon Cannon alone was calc'd in the triple digit gigatons or some shit, so, yeah

dante's lighting speed actually are massively hypersonic , and sub-relativistic with quicksilver.

Dante's massively hypersonic? Last I was aware his best speed feat was Mach 20 or whatever?

In any case, this is as off topic as hell, I believe this is DmC Dante and Vergil were using here? :lmao

Yeah, DmC gets destroyed by a moogle (MAYBE a trance moogle).

DmC Dante is way weaker then DMC3 Dante.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Dante's massively hypersonic? Last I was aware his best speed feat was Mach 20 or whatever?

In any case, this is as off topic as hell, I believe this is DmC Dante and Vergil were using here? :lmao Dude, you got Sephiroth's speed feats from a poll on naruto-boards.

Dante at his best stands a decent chance.

ALSO, Speed isn't everything.

Originally posted by dika123
dante's lighting speed actually are massively hypersonic , and sub-relativistic with quicksilver. Dika, just leave KMC, dude.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Dude, you got Sephiroth's speed feats from a poll on naruto-boards.

Try, the blogs there, which is where most of the FF calcs were done

Besides, why the **** does it matter where they came from?



Good thing Sephiroth has more than just speed up his sleeves eh?

FF Calc's???

You're using calcs as fact???

Because we're all thinking that you're using facts, its a big deal in a debate.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
FF Calc's???

You're using calcs as fact???

Yeah, calcs have been used to quantify feats since forever

It's basically a way of getting a more precise result rather than just eyeballing and going "oh that's definitely mountain level+ for sure" or "dis bomb r bigger dan dat bomb"

How is Seph's sword slashes any different then Vergil's?

Vergil takes a step and instantly the air itself is distorted by hundreds of sword slashes.

Maybe because, you know, Sephiroth has better quantifiable speed feats (well actually, far weaker characters do but I digress)

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Yeah, calcs have been used to quantify feats since forever

It's basically a way of getting a more precise result rather than just eyeballing and going "oh that's definitely mountain level+ for sure" or "dis bomb r bigger dan dat bomb" In theory this is true. In reality it mostly results in inflated or misrepresented feats, or non-feats trying to be used with the power of math.

Indeed, like chumps trying to weigh lightning to use deflecting it as a strength feat.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Indeed, like chumps trying to weigh lightning to use deflecting it as a strength feat. I did that as a joke, ****er. And it was awesome.

131

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
In theory this is true. In reality it mostly results in inflated or misrepresented feats, or non-feats trying to be used with the power of math.



If all else fails, and you have little to nothing else left to observe, then yes, calcs would be practical. When it becomes the only thing you ever bother to look at, all the time, every time, is when it gets f**king stupid.

I look at Vergil and Sephiroth, only to see that they have VERY similar moves and tactics, but Sephiroth is more feral then Vergil.

Seph might have a more powerful force behind his attacks, but speed-wise, Seph is on the level of DMC3 Vergil :/

Hey, guess who else used calc's? DEATH BATTLE.


We all know how ****ed up their calc's can be.

Originally posted by Werewolf582
So I re-watched the Superman vs Goku deathbattle again (Because its my fav battle) and I noticed something that I should have spotted in the first place......


http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/19/00/38/35/c_data52.jpg

WTF?

SEE, CALC'S!

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Dante's massively hypersonic? Last I was aware his best speed feat was Mach 20 or whatever?

In any case, this is as off topic as hell, I believe this is DmC Dante and Vergil were using here? :lmao

Well if it's the new DmC Dante and Vergil, they lose. Otherwise, the originals stomp. I don't think lightning speed from a demonic weapon in an universe that has demon who moves through lightning is too far-fetched. Not to mention that the weapons in that universe does what they state usually, like Vergil's sword for example cutting through dimensions.

Lol @ Vergil cutting through Dimensions.

He made distortions in the air, dude, that's about it.

That being said, he still might be able to take Sephiroth.

Lol @ it entirely pertaining to Vergil entirely.

Well once again, demonic weapon with said powers, blah-blah same concept as most other game weapon descriptions. Also said distortions are described as cuts through dimensional barriers. Which would be why the "distortions" are there. Circular slashing "air distortions" all over the place while he stands in one spot actually makes less sense... Basically we're just downplaying everything that demonic energy is said to do in DMC at this point since you don't like it, regardless of how ridiculous it would sound. Which kinda defeats the whole point of any game versus. Not to mention the game has plenty of other space/time rendering elements anyway. ermm

No, they were never described as "cuts through dimensional barriers".

I have DMC 1,2,3,4, and DmC.

That has never once, EVER been stated.

You just lied, I give you a challenge. If you can find that exact quote, anywhere, I will concede and you will win the argument.

If Vergil can cut through Dimension Barriers, then he can definitely take Sephiroth.

A direct statement of the weapon's description? There is none except that it is key to separation of the human/demon dimension and said to "cut through anything." I kinda find it debatable on it slicing through anything like when it was put against the Rebellion or Nero arm, but could actually mean cut through anything, as in going through it.

A direct statement of the weapon's attacks causing slashes through dimensional barriers in a name & description? Yeah, that's kinda very directly stated in the description and shown in appearance of the attacks which would make sense for it to go through anything then just like the attacks actually do.

Also following Dante's cutting down the Hell Gate on 4, that angle of the cut doesn't exactly match what happens with the objects in the way of that slash for it to be an air attack. Part of a tree and some buildings should've been cut down as well if it was simply a slash through air. I wouldn't exactly use Nero's displays with the sword since he doesn't have the control over it like Dante and Vergil do, which I would assume it comes from them being direct sons of Sparda and the weapon being crafted and imbued with power from Sparda himself. If it was the case of air slashes or distortions, I would think that would also be stated or at least hinted instead as part of the weapon's powers otherwise Dante would be able to strike with enough force from his Rebellion to do that.

So can a Lightsaber, yet there are still metals and alloys that are very resistant, I don't think you understand how powerful casually cutting dimensions is.

Solaris from Sonic 06', actually ate Dimensions for nourishment, he is at least multi-verse level.

Dimension's are way bigger and different then just some random new universe.

Also, before Vergil could cut through any Dimension's, he'd half to cut through the molecule's in the air, which would create an atomic explosion on the spot.

And the other explanation for the attacks magically passing through objects to hit objects behind would be? Cause air manipulation makes less sense.

I don't think that's something that is necessary for dimensional travel in every universe... Actually I don't think I can think of a single fictional universe where slicing a dimension caused an atomic explosion so that sounds much less plausible.

Unless you just wanna call it spatial manipulation which would be the same concept except more impressive

Redguard's from TES apparently were able to slice the molecule's in the air to create atomic explosions.

You can't slice through dimension's in your own dimension.

Also, the fact that it cuts through object's behind him only means it was a broader slash...

Originally posted by SpadeKing
Well if it's the new DmC Dante and Vergil, they lose. Otherwise, the originals stomp. I don't think lightning speed from a demonic weapon in an universe that has demon who moves through lightning is too far-fetched. Not to mention that the weapons in that universe does what they state usually, like Vergil's sword for example cutting through dimensions.

Doesn't some weapon in DMC2 or something state that it impacts with the force of a supernova or something?

And even then, lightning is only in the Mach triple digits or so, and Dante and Vergil are still outclassed in terms of DC, durability and hax really.

If Seph really felt threatened he could just raise his barrier while Dante and Vergil harmlessly chip away it it, and one shot them with a Shadow Flare.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Doesn't some weapon in DMC2 or something state that it impacts with the force of a supernova or something?

And even then, lightning is only in the Mach triple digits or so, and Dante and Vergil are still outclassed in terms of DC, durability and hax really.

If Seph really felt threatened he could just raise his barrier while Dante and Vergil harmlessly chip away it it, and one shot them with a Shadow Flare. The force of a Supernova would easily destroy Sephiroth's world-destroying meteor, thanks for making a point against yourself.

Supernova's are pretty f*cking powerful.

Seph's barrier and Seph would get stomped by a Supernova.

That's the destruction of a star...

Originally posted by Jmanghan
The force of a Supernova would easily destroy Sephiroth's world-destroying meteor, thanks for making a point against yourself.

Supernova's are pretty f*cking powerful.

Point isn't there a weapon that states such a thing? It was in response to the whole "they're always right"

Unless there's feats for it, it's simply a hyperbole

Even if the game says so??

So is Sephiroth being Mach 100.

Beowulf casually created small supernova's himself, and Dante tanked them.

So, Durability is out for Seph.

Well if you want to play that game Sephiroth is lightspeed because Dissidia said he has lightspeed movement, same old with the Naruto Databooks and DBZ Daizenshuu's

No, there's simply the feats for it (Cloud being able to move through the Whirlind Maze, Sephiroth being much faster than him)

And what was the point of your picture

As for Speed, Trickster, mixed with the whole time-stopping thing, will make Dante easily faster.

If that doesn't, Quicksilver definitely will.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Well if you want to play that game Sephiroth is lightspeed because Dissidia said he has lightspeed movement, same old with the Naruto Databooks and DBZ Daizenshuu's

No, there's simply the feats for it (Cloud being able to move through the Whirlind Maze, Sephiroth being much faster than him)

And what was the point of your picture So, an inaccurate calc made on narutoforums.

If we're going by Dissida logic, then no, you're still wrong, Sephiroth was never stated to be lightspeed.

I have way more hours put in Dissidia then you could ever dream of.

"I don't like it so it doesn't count"



http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2518/imag0037z.jpg

Oh, I thought you meant, actually stated in-game, like the WOL or Cloud was like "He's light-speed"

Dissidia is non-canon though.


It has nothing to do with me not liking it, it's a calc, and calc's are wrong all the time.

There's no guarantee it is, but most likely, yeah, it is.

Either way Lightning = Lightspeed.

Because it is, in fact, light.

Dante and Vergil have similar speed feats with Sephiroth, and some even surpassing them.

Dante being able to tank a small supernova, and being able to dish out a small supernova makes this an automatic win, though.

Btw, Dissidia has been out since 2009, and you haven't mastered all of his attacks yet?

Ugh, sickening.

Point is, statement like that are meaningless without feats to back them



Because you say so.... right



What? No it doesn't



Except that nothing in DMC is anywhere as powerful as a supernova, and the only statement around it has, no feats to back it, so no

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Point is, statement like that are meaningless without feats to back them



Because you say so.... right



What? No it doesn't



Except that nothing in DMC is anywhere as powerful as a supernova, and the only statement around it has, no feats to back it, so no A statement made by description.

So, if we're ignoring description, Seph's Obilvion being lightspeed is also hyperbole.

I can just as easily say the same thing about your Seph statement's.

Well, again, I point the Calc's back to the mess that happened during the Goku vs Superman battle.

Lightning is a form of Light, it strikes at lightspeed, its instantaneously there, and then instantaneously gone.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
A statement made by description.

So, if we're ignoring description, Seph's Obilvion being lightspeed is also hyperbole.

I can just as easily say the same thing about your Seph statement's.

Uh yeah, that's my point

I wouldn't advocate LS+ Sephiroth just because of a statement not backed by feats even if Dissidia was canon

Then there's the age old "Cell is not a solar system buster" and "Sensui is not a planet buster" type shite



DeathBattle admitted that they heavily highballed the calcs to give Goku a chance, or something along those lines

Regardless, DBZ does have FTL feats in animu fillers so, yeah



No, the return stroke or something was relativistic, the actual bolt was Mach triple digits or some shit

And lightning is a form of electricity

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Uh yeah, that's my point

I wouldn't advocate LS+ Sephiroth just because of a statement not backed by feats even if Dissidia was canon

Then there's the age old "Cell is not a solar system buster" and "Sensui is not a planet buster" type shite



DeathBattle admitted that they heavily highballed the calcs to give Goku a chance, or something along those lines

Regardless, DBZ does have FTL feats in animu fillers so, yeah



No, the return stroke or something was relativistic, the actual bolt was Mach triple digits or some shit

And lightning is a form of electricity Still faster then Mach 100.

Also, Dante tanking a supernova isn't hyperbole though, because it actually happened.

Small supernova*

Just because it was claimed to have the power of a supernova doesn't mean it's legit without the feats to back it up

Unless you have a DC feat, then the claim is for all intents and purposes uselss

So is your calc.

Yes, there's reasoned thought behind it, but it still means less then hyperbole put into a video game.

At least we get an idea of how powerful it is instead of getting random facts from narutoforums.com.

Denial is more than just a river in Egypt, clearly

I mean if you're not going to use calcs to compare characters what the **** else will you use to get more precise results? Squiggles? Zig Zags?



>Something that gets you a more precise result
>Less merit than a statement with nothing at all to back it

Riiight

At least it's in the f*cking game, as opposed to random guys on a forum.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Redguard's from TES apparently were able to slice the molecule's in the air to create atomic explosions.

You can't slice through dimension's in your own dimension.

Also, the fact that it cuts through object's behind him only means it was a broader slash...

I have the slightest idea what TES is

But aside from that there are plenty of animes that have dimensional slicing swords that slice open dimensional barriers/portals without an explosion. Admittingly none come to mind where the slash teleports. I still don't see a broader slash explaining that however.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Doesn't some weapon in DMC2 or something state that it impacts with the force of a supernova or something?

And even then, lightning is only in the Mach triple digits or so, and Dante and Vergil are still outclassed in terms of DC, durability and hax really.

If Seph really felt threatened he could just raise his barrier while Dante and Vergil harmlessly chip away it it, and one shot them with a Shadow Flare.

I barely remember too much about DMC 2 except that DMC 2 Dante is supposed to be canonically a walking hax.

On a side note, I don't think I would count in Dissidia into the discussion unless it is actually canon to the series. Which I'd partially gladly accept for it making Squall and some others look more awesome. Otherwise that would be like taking Capcom vs Marvel into account where Dante/Vergil could fight through the Phoenix Force even... Or even Ace Wright could.

Durability, that's highly questionable. The most I've seen for Sephiroth was being thrown over a railing and taking 2 limit breaks from Cloud (despite Advent Children Seph being a weaker version). From what I can tell, Dante's biggest weakness seems to be getting stabbed with his own sword which usually just makes him mad a few seconds later. He also survived taking some comets while fighting Mundus. Also wiped the floor with Abigail when he activated his devil trigger pre-dmc3, who was supposed to be a planetary threat even though we never exactly see how. Also supposedly surpass his father's power who sealed himself away cause he was too powerful. Kinda reminds me of S-rank demons on Yu Yu Hakusho ermmlaugh
I have no idea if I missed anything elsewhere about Sephiroth's durability since I haven't played any FF other than 14 and a 15 demo in forever.

Anyway if Dante had an attack with that much power, I doubt he would use it in a place where he wouldn't want to cause that much destruction. I could see him using it against Mundus in their space/pocket dimension battle if he had whatever attack that was then... Though I think DMC 2 Dante was supposed to be able to wipe the floor with Mundus anyway.

Originally posted by SpadeKing
I have the slightest idea what TES is

But aside from that there are plenty of animes that have dimensional slicing swords that slice open dimensional barriers/portals without an explosion. Admittingly none come to mind where the slash teleports. I still don't see a broader slash explaining that however.



I barely remember too much about DMC 2 except that DMC 2 Dante is supposed to be canonically a walking hax.

On a side note, I don't think I would count in Dissidia into the discussion unless it is actually canon to the series. Which I'd partially gladly accept for it making Squall and some others look more awesome. Otherwise that would be like taking Capcom vs Marvel into account where Dante/Vergil could fight through the Phoenix Force even... Or even Ace Wright could.

Durability, that's highly questionable. The most I've seen for Sephiroth was being thrown over a railing and taking 2 limit breaks from Cloud (despite Advent Children Seph being a weaker version). From what I can tell, Dante's biggest weakness seems to be getting stabbed with his own sword which usually just makes him mad a few seconds later. He also survived taking some comets while fighting Mundus. Also wiped the floor with Abigail when he activated his devil trigger pre-dmc3, who was supposed to be a planetary threat even though we never exactly see how. Also supposedly surpass his father's power who sealed himself away cause he was too powerful. Kinda reminds me of S-rank demons on Yu Yu Hakusho ermmlaugh
I have no idea if I missed anything elsewhere about Sephiroth's durability since I haven't played any FF other than 14 and a 15 demo in forever.

Anyway if Dante had an attack with that much power, I doubt he would use it in a place where he wouldn't want to cause that much destruction. I could see him using it against Mundus in their space/pocket dimension battle if he had whatever attack that was then... Though I think DMC 2 Dante was supposed to be able to wipe the floor with Mundus anyway. Dude, the DMC anime was Post-DMC 1, because Trish and Lady are in it.

Then there's Cloud being able to survive two ga level spells from the SHM, Weapons being able to survive falling into the ground hard enough to create craters dozens of kilometers wide and absurdly deep, Jenova surviving that meteor (on top of the planet believing it'd need several continent busters to deal with her). Sephiroth>>>

I should also mention Cloud being able to survive inside Bahamut's Tera Flare in AC or some shit

Also, AC Sephiroth is actually the strongest version of Sephiroth

Oh .

Cloud beat him, one-on-one.

That wasn't even the most chaotic battle (see what I did there) of FFVII. That would have been the final battle of Dirge of Cerberus.

Twice

First time he had his whole party backing him and his final battle was some kind of "mental battle" or some shit (at least, that's the most common interpretation)

Second time in AC was only because of Omnislash V6/Sephiroth being a dick the whole time

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Dude, the DMC anime was Post-DMC 1, because Trish and Lady are in it.

I meant to put pre-dmc4

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Then there's Cloud being able to survive two ga level spells from the SHM, Weapons being able to survive falling into the ground hard enough to create craters dozens of kilometers wide and absurdly deep, Jenova surviving that meteor (on top of the planet believing it'd need several continent busters to deal with her). Sephiroth>>>

I should also mention Cloud being able to survive inside Bahamut's Tera Flare in AC or some shit

Also, AC Sephiroth is actually the strongest version of Sephiroth

Vegeta can take a large impact blast and keep fighting, give him a piercing shot through the body like Frieza did and that's a nope. Same concept, Dante gets pelted with meteors and knocked down who knows how far from Mundus and gets right back up to fight, stab through him with a sword and he goes down for a bit of time. As much as people mention 'city/country/planet buster', it's like they seem to forget how many characters fall to the most basic piercing attacks still. Unless these swords carry some continent busting power in them, I don't see what difference that makes when it still goes through them pretty easily. Cloud basically got turned into swiss cheese in Advent Children :/

As for AC Sephiroth being stronger than he was in the original 7 in terms of battle strength, that's highly debatable. It took the whole party in a battle with him in 7 until a mental fight with Cloud where he still lost to a limit break... Or a normal counter-attack if you want to be anti-climatic in that fight... AC, Tifa mentions they've all gotten weaker from FF7 but that Cloud was able to regain his strength. Sephiroth does mention that Cloud seems to have gotten stronger too. But I don't see anything that shows Sephiroth being stronger combat-wise than the original 7 or that Cloud completely transcended the party as a whole from 7.
What I'm basically getting at is kind of like how Genesis is stated to be a combat-equal to Sephiroth. Sephiroth is still more powerful of course just due to his Jenova cells and control of Jenova, but there has yet to be something shown in combat that shows the difference (between the two).

Of course though, Sephiroth apparently always holds back especially against Cloud so not like he had much to show I suppose. Either way, seems pretty cut-able/stab-able to me. As does the rest of the FF & DMC cast.

Originally posted by SpadeKing
I meant to put pre-dmc4



Vegeta can take a large impact blast and keep fighting, give him a piercing shot through the body like Frieza did and that's a nope.

Because Freiza is just that much more powerful than Vegeta, and a more concentrated form of damage



Well if it was by beings even on Nero's level, then it'd be far from a low end showing. Plus, swords, bullets, etc due to their sharp edges have a far higher level of pressure compared to a fist or explosion, reason why swords are very effective against very durable opponents when used by beings on a comparable tier

Same reason why railguns only have 10 megajoules or force behind them, but due to their tips, can harm beings with multi-city block level durability



Either those attacks are just that powerful (again, swords have a much thinner edge so they'd have a higher level of PSI, add superhuman strength/speed/etc into the mix, which makes them very effective), or it's just an inconsistency like guns being shown as harming characters they logically shouldn't (.50 calibers would be ineffective against ****ers who can tank city block busters, or guns can just be that ****ing powerful, like Metal Gear or Warhammer), ala guns harming Majin Buu, even Saiyan Saga characters can tank attacks that can mass scater the moon



See above "lower surface area and higher PSI" shite. And Sephiroth is considerably above Cloud, WoG saying Cloud only won due to PIS, he had no materia or whatever, compared to Sephiroth who had, pretty much every materia based ability. Hell, that cloud gathering feat in AC alone puts him well above materialess Cloud



Cloud did Omnislash Sephiroth's ass in FF7, AC he tried Omnislash regular but Seph stopped it easily enough



Well nothing in quantifiable terms I'll admit (depends on how you take some statement of Kadaj being above FF7 Seph from WoG, not that i'd personally advocate that myself but eh), same with how Freiza can planet bust and Cell is much more powerful, but it's hard to put exactly how much more powerful Cell is in quantifiable terms

Or Three Kings above Sensui and EoCB Yusuke, we know the former is much more powerful than the latter, hard to put into quantifiable terms

Or God Emperor is much more powerful than Angron, Lion El'Jonson, Ferrus Manus, etc, but it's hard to put into quantifiable terms how much more so

List goes on

I remember Sephiroth holding the entire party in the air with telekinesis and causing them pain, while holding back Holy. I also remember Sephiroth using illusions at the Northern-Crater by making the place look like Nibelheim, and making himself look like Tifa(to trick the party into giving the Black-Materia).
Therefore, I could easily see him making the brothers see each other as Sephiroth and fight among themselves, only for him to kill the survivor later. Or hold one of the brothers in place with TK, while making the other see his brother as Sephiroth, and killing him easily(due to TK immobilization), leaving the real Sephiroth to deal with the survivor.

Remember guys: Before Advent Children, before Dirge of Cerberus, and before Dissidia... There was a game called Final Fantasy VII.

Why have feats from Advent Children been mentioned. This is the game versus forum, shouldn't only game feats count? I realize the movie is a direct continuation of the story of the game, but it is still a movie, not a game.

I don't know, then again, nobody really gives a shit about what applies and what doesn't given the relative inactivity of the board outside the comic and movie vs

Not that it matters, AC or no, Sephiroth is way out of the DMCverse's weight class

No, Dante is Faster then Sephiroth in combat. Lightning > Sephiroth, and Dante can command Lightning.

Hyperbole, Dante's best quantifiable speed feat is Mach 20 or so

No, canonically, Dante has a weapon that controls Lightning. In DMC 3

The guitar he gets straight up controls Lightning.

You can't prove that his top speed is Mach 20, just like you can't prove Sephiroth is Mach 100, or that Chaos is multiversal.

Controlling lightning doesn't make him as fast as lightning, by that logic any character who can control electricity

Oh, sorry, I meant to say Mach 15 is Dante's best speed feat, based off Alastor or whatever it was



"I don't like it so it never happened" is not a valid argument

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Controlling lightning doesn't make him as fast as lightning, by that logic any character who can control electricity

Oh, sorry, I meant to say Mach 15 is Dante's best speed feat, based off Alastor or whatever it was



"I don't like it so it never happened" is not a valid argument

I don't like it AND it never happened is a better description.

Also, the point is, Dante can just take out the Guitar and whoop up on Sephiroth.

Well except for the fact it did happen but you know "muh preconceptions!!!11!!"

EDIT: Oh, and Sephiroth's durability is way above Dante's energy output

Seriously though, a vast majority of FF mid tiers could fodderise the Sparda twins, pitting someone like Sephiroth, Kefka, Golbez, Exdeath, etc in DMC is like putting Freiza in the Narutoverse

Prove to me, give me a solid argument that canonically states: "Sephiroth is Mach 100". Then I'll submit right now.

Whirlwind Maze's whirlwinds were clocked at Mach 100, Cloud moved faster than them. Sephiroth>>>that

Calcs>>>your bullshit

Calcs means just as much as that "hyperbole" you kept going on about. You're gonna feel like a real jack-ass 5 years from now when the president of SE is all like "Someone said Sephiroth is Mach 100? No, more like Mach 10, still has lots or power behind him, though"

I don't know what you think gives you the right to call a calc canon, but ok.

Author's intent does not apply, you could apply that logic for any fiction

And no, a moar precise measure of a feat>>>some statement not backed up by any feats whatsoever



"Durr calcs are fan made and therefore are not canon"

MovieCodec tier logic+

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Because Freiza is just that much more powerful than Vegeta, and a more concentrated form of damage



Well if it was by beings even on Nero's level, then it'd be far from a low end showing. Plus, swords, bullets, etc due to their sharp edges have a far higher level of pressure compared to a fist or explosion, reason why swords are very effective against very durable opponents when used by beings on a comparable tier

Same reason why railguns only have 10 megajoules or force behind them, but due to their tips, can harm beings with multi-city block level durability



Either those attacks are just that powerful (again, swords have a much thinner edge so they'd have a higher level of PSI, add superhuman strength/speed/etc into the mix, which makes them very effective), or it's just an inconsistency like guns being shown as harming characters they logically shouldn't (.50 calibers would be ineffective against ****ers who can tank city block busters, or guns can just be that ****ing powerful, like Metal Gear or Warhammer), ala guns harming Majin Buu, even Saiyan Saga characters can tank attacks that can mass scater the moon



See above "lower surface area and higher PSI" shite. And Sephiroth is considerably above Cloud, WoG saying Cloud only won due to PIS, he had no materia or whatever, compared to Sephiroth who had, pretty much every materia based ability. Hell, that cloud gathering feat in AC alone puts him well above materialess Cloud



Cloud did Omnislash Sephiroth's ass in FF7, AC he tried Omnislash regular but Seph stopped it easily enough



Well nothing in quantifiable terms I'll admit (depends on how you take some statement of Kadaj being above FF7 Seph from WoG, not that i'd personally advocate that myself but eh), same with how Freiza can planet bust and Cell is much more powerful, but it's hard to put exactly how much more powerful Cell is in quantifiable terms

Or Three Kings above Sensui and EoCB Yusuke, we know the former is much more powerful than the latter, hard to put into quantifiable terms

Or God Emperor is much more powerful than Angron, Lion El'Jonson, Ferrus Manus, etc, but it's hard to put into quantifiable terms how much more so

List goes on

Since I'm still too lazy to split:

That was an example, not referring to Frieza specifically. Or a better example, Frieza surviving a spirit bomb but easily getting chopped up by Krillin's destructo disc and his own Destructo-ripoff-disc. Basically put, their durability levels seem to shrink pretty fast with sharp objects. So we can toss that out for each of them. Characters can take a hit but not a stab. So going with the PSI thing, it's reasonably to say each of them can be stab/cut. Otherwise Sephiroth wouldn't have a reason to block and Dante woul- nvm he gets stabbed and shot just for one-liners.

I for one can't see why Sephiroth doesn't just take Cloud seriously for 5 seconds and end it

Sephiroth basically learned well from that first encounter with that move... Which Omnislash actually didn't look quite as impressive on the movie compared to the game, not that the look matters.

I guess a Yu Yu Hakusho type of power level would make more sense if he is supposed to be stronger, like how an upper A class can apparently kill 500 lower A classes if you relate it like that for FF7 Seph vs AC Seph.

To answer why AC Seph is being mentioned: I believe it was established years back that as long as any movie/book is canon to whatever is an original game series, it's still included. Otherwise people like Master Chief would be lame to include in anything without any of his book feats. So since the original poster never really stated FF7 Seph, it can go up to AC Seph.

As for the measurements: FF7's main measurement comes from a whirlwind arena, which from my understanding, measurements come from real world physics. Where the main attraction seems to be the wind rather than the lightning within, so it can be debatable for lightning speed reactions for them too. Which basically come from measurements and the fact it's part of the game story to pass, correct? Which I remember, outside of cutscenes or other written canon stuff, or things that weren't actual mechanics or fight related usually got passed by, but either way...

DMC doesn't really get much stuff to measure up against since you're essentially given a character who just plays around with majority of the demons he's faced. Though he is given a weapon that states to give the user lightning speed (not control of lightning). Also an ability that cutscene wise, stops time. Gameplay wise, slows it incredibly makes it the easiest thing ever and states to give lightning speed also, but it's at the expense of getting better ranks in each mission. I don't think giving him literal lightning speed in the games would've let them be any challenge in terms of just completing them. Be kinda like the FF party moving at mach 100 the whole game unless frogs and wolves have this feat in their world too for them to keep up the entire time.
He's also fought a demon who basically traveled by lightning. You could really do the speed measurements the same for him to be able to keep up or just reaction speed alone for that fight, pretty sure that's been done in these forums before... Also part of game story to pass, so it's reasonable for him to have lightning speed reaction for that fight.

Taking all that into account, just disregarding the abilities demonic weapon is said to grant to whoever can conquer it wouldn't be any different than downplaying Sephiroth's abilities from author intent either. Yes they state he's more powerful, no Sephiroth never states that he is holding or held back against Cloud each time he loses. Thor's hammer not granting full abilites to whoever can hold it without them coming close to his strength. That is also a list that could go on for many items.
Also control of Alastor is above mach 15 and 100...

Then there's the battle with Mundus in his own arena dimension of space, Dante certainly has to be moving pretty fast in that, which most people is crediting as faster than light. Also considering those energy spikes Mundus was firing looked faster than the meteorites, going by the small cutscene rather than gameplay, which the meteorites themselves can vary from 25,000 mph to 160,000 mph.
That's all assuming they're not somehow enhanced by demon energy like almost everything else in that game.

Also we still kinda have not dealt with quicksilver or the bangle of time... Which, Alastor aside, does pretty much trump anyone with speed feats over him in base form. Usually items/gear like this for characters are excluded for good reasons in these threads.

Now I'll go disappear for another few months cause my laptop and internet hate me.