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If Superman on average is 100 in strength just before Flashpoint, rate these characters in strength.

1. Byrne Superman (Pre-DOS)
2. Captain Marvel
3. Orion
4. Darkseid
5. Wonder Woman
6. Mon-El
7. Martian Manhunter

Go!

Darkseid-100
Orion-100
Captain Marvel-100
Mon-El-95
Wonder Woman-90
Martian Manhunter-90
Superman-75

1. Byrne Superman (Pre-DOS) - I never saw the difference, but heard that he was weaker in this era than pre flash. Until proven other wise I give him 100,

2. Captain Marvel - 95

3. Orion - 90

4. Darkseid - 110

5. Wonder Woman - 90

6. Mon-El - 95

7. Martian Manhunter - 85

Originally posted by Epicurus
Darkseid-100
Orion-100
Captain Marvel-100
Mon-El-95
Wonder Woman-90
Martian Manhunter-90
Superman-75
Even Byrne Superman was stronger than J'onn and Diana and as they have no upgrades since then, I don't think they were stronger than him before Flashpoint.

Also Orion is decisively weaker than Darkseid, both by his admission and direct showings. Darkseid has outmuscled him with one hand.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_TheLegion029-18.jpg

And Orion has acknowledged it.

http://i.imgur.com/UuM7ldL.jpg

And equal to Kalibak in strength as by his admission. You know, Superman's punching bag.

http://i.imgur.com/x3ILuxf.jpg

So, no Orion isn't an equal to Superman/Darkseid in strength. He never was.

Originally posted by Stoic
1. Byrne Superman (Pre-DOS) - I never saw the difference, but heard that he was weaker in this era than pre flash. Until proven other wise I give him 100,

2. Captain Marvel - 95

3. Orion - 90

4. Darkseid - 110

5. Wonder Woman - 90

6. Mon-El - 95

7. Martian Manhunter - 85
Yeah, he was weaker. Superman officially got an upgrade after DOS and then another in No Limits under Loeb and another after Infinite Crisis.

And Diana isn't as strong as Orion. Otherwise good ratings.

Ahbi I see what you've done here. I'm a guy who likes to please people, so I will give you what you want.

Superman > all.

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
Ahbi I see what you've done here. I'm a guy who likes to please people, so I will give you what you want.

Superman > all.
That's certainly not what I want. I think Darkseid is generally stronger than Superman.

And please rate the character based on Captain Marvel's rating as 100 from now on. Remove Superman and Byrne Superman's ratings please.

She got an upgrade after Clayface temporarily absorbed some of her divine clay, and iirc when she came back from being a god she was a bit stronger too (could be wrong on the latter).

And she was able to go toe-to-toe with Infinite Crisis era Superman in Sacrifice and inflict almost as much damage as she took.

Originally posted by Q99
She got an upgrade after Clayface temporarily absorbed some of her divine clay, and iirc when she came back from being a god she was a bit stronger too (could be wrong on the latter). She only took the clay back and her strength wasn't stated to be higher, only her speed was. And no, her powers weren't upgraded in WW 136.

Not this again. In strength she was totally outclassed with Superman easily overpowering her and taking to the sun, oneshotting her back to earth and snapping her wrist like a twig. You can argue much about Sacrifice, the strength difference you can't. He looked vastly stronger than her there.

Originally posted by abhilegend
If Superman on average is 100 in strength just before Flashpoint, rate these characters in strength.

1. Byrne Superman (Pre-DOS)
2. Captain Marvel
3. Orion
4. Darkseid
5. Wonder Woman
6. Mon-El
7. Martian Manhunter

Go!

Byrne Supes=80
CM=99
Orion=99
Darkseid=100.5
Dianna=90
Mon-El=96
J'onn=95

Originally posted by Galan007
Byrne Supes=80
CM=99
Orion=99
Darkseid=100.5
Dianna=90
Mon-El=96
J'onn=95

Originally posted by Galan007
Byrne Supes=80
CM=99
Orion=99
Darkseid=100.5
Dianna=90
Mon-El=96
J'onn=95
They aren't so close in strength. Like here, it takes J'onn and Barda to restrain Orion.

http://i.imgur.com/fpkRpPj.jpg

Or like Weird oneshotting J'onn and then Byrne Superman utterly no selling his punch.

http://i.imgur.com/2OSRxYC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mxvmLfH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xw2BMT5.jpg

Or Doomsday no selling J'onn/Bloodwynd's punch and then Superman literally beating him to death. So, no there is not a single chance that J'onn is literally 20% stronger than Byrne Superman.

Why are you trying to tell me that my purely theoretical list is incorrect? For all you know the orders of magnitude I'm using are vastly different than your own. "1" for me might equate to "10" for you. srsly

Originally posted by Galan007
Why are you trying to tell me that my purely theoretical list is incorrect? For all you know the orders of magnitude I'm using are vastly different than your own. "1" for me might equate to "10" for you. srsly
You could use any system, J'onn isn't stronger than Byrne Superman. Not by such a large margin.

Nah, you're wrong.

Originally posted by Galan007
Nah, you're wrong. Perfect carver logic.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Perfect carver logic. #shotsfired

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
#shotsfired
Shut up fattie.

#secondshot

Byrne Supes = 90 - 95
CM = 99
Orion = 99 - 101
Darkseid = 100.5
Dianna = 90
Mon-E l= 96
J'onn = 95

That's how I'd probably rank them.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Byrne Supes = 90 - 95
CM = 99
Orion = 99 - 101
Darkseid = 100.5
Dianna = 90
Mon-E l= 96
J'onn = 95

That's how I'd probably rank them.
Again I ask, on what basis J'onn stronger than Byrne Superman? He doesn't has combat feats, he doesn't has strength feats, he has nothing. I don't have any problem with Cap or Orion's placement on the lists, they have feats which could be argued in their favor. But J'onn being that close to Superman AND stronger than Byrne Superman boggles the mind.

For what its worth Superman directly overpowered J'onn amped on Blackrock trying to restrain him along with a shit load of heroes.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16004724/supesvseveryone3.JPG.html

Based on what people are posting Byrne Superman being weaker than Wonder Woman AND j'onn, he might as well not be a top tier at all.



PS: Orion isn't stronger than Superman. The best you could say that he's equal to him and there are a lot of instances where he isn't even that. He has never looked stronger though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's certainly not what I want. I think Darkseid is generally stronger than Superman.

I'm just pulling your leg buddy. I know you have good intentions with this thread.
I know who Orion and Mon-el are, but I am not well versed enough of the two to participate in this thread.

1. Byrne Superman (Pre-DOS) 95
2. Captain Marvel 100
3. Orion 110
4. Darkseid 120
5. Wonder Woman 90
6. Mon-El 95
7. Martian Manhunter 95

Abhi, stop being a stupid-head.

Ready to close this for being a bait thread.

Dont know what comics peps have been reading, but there is a clear difference in raw power between BE Superman, PostDos and Loeb's

While at the beginning of the post crisis I dont think Superman was able to move a small planet by the end of the post crisis he was pulling insane crap.

So, there is a clear difference between the two of them and even on his weak byrne state the hierarchy in dc pretty much stayed the same and that hierarchy moved along with superman's power increase. With Darkseid and Orion being the closest to Superman and MMH being the lowest on the list.

So even at byrne era superman was top dog because of hierarchy but compared to late post crisis superman, byrne era superman was a weakling,imo

Darkeseid will be the only true equal in physical might with mon el and orion following

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
1. Byrne Superman (Pre-DOS) 95
2. Captain Marvel 100
3. Orion 110
4. Darkseid 120
5. Wonder Woman 90
6. Mon-El 95
7. Martian Manhunter 95

The problem is that CM and others were peers (most were inferior) to Superman before Superman's upgrades. So assuming that later or stronger Superman still appears to be peers should just mean he is holding back even MORE.

DOS Superman went from being peers to the others (his everyday strength) and not being able to hurt DD to outright killing DD in a few panels. This is more than a 5x increase in strength.

I know, others hold back too. But not that damn much again someone who is killing others and putting a serious hurting on them. The proof is how DD treated Jonn. There was a vast difference between Suoerman and him.


With that said, everyday holding back Bryne Superman and your list is fairly accurate. But a fully released Superman and the list changes drastically.

Aquaman 9001

Originally posted by -Pr-
Abhi, stop being a stupid-head.

Ready to close this for being a bait thread.
Can you please remove Superman and Byrne Superman from the thread title and have Captain Marvel as 100 rating?

Also I wasn't baiting anybody.

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
Ahbi I see what you've done here. I'm a guy who likes to please people, so I will give you what you want.

Superman > all. he's trying so hard to make even the weak versions of superman look good. the retcon never happened in abi's heart and soul