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As one might expect, Superman as he is generally portrayed, would have no chance against Owen; Owen would utterly destroy him with a thought and Supes cant reconstruct from molecular annihilation as Sentry could...

So my question is this: what is the weakest incarnation of Superman that could beat Dark Avengers Molecule Man every single time?

Superman punches him in the face at superspeed.

http://i.imgur.com/Z0Frat5.jpg

Always works.

Didnt that occur before Owen realized that he could manipulate organic matter?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Didnt that occur before Owen realized that he could manipulate organic matter?
That doesn't increases his durability.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That doesn't increases his durability.



I'm not well versed on Owen but his extensive ability to manipulate organic matter seems to indicate that he has the potential to willfully increase his own durability to indeterminate levels. As it is, I'm speculating here since I'm not well read on the character - as stated - and know very few of his feats, especially his earlier ones; however, it makes perfect sense that someone on his level could achieve something as trivial as a stat boost by rearranging his own molecular makeup.

If my line of thinking is flawed or the character has showings that explicitly contradict it, feel free to educate me.

Originally posted by Orrsome28
I'm not well versed on Owen but his extensive ability to manipulate organic matter seems to indicate that he has the potential to willfully increase his own durability to indeterminate levels. As it is, I'm speculating here since I'm not well read on the character - as stated - and know very few of his feats, especially his earlier ones; however, it makes perfect sense that someone on his level could achieve something as trivial as a stat boost by rearranging his own molecular makeup.

If my line of thinking is flawed or the character has showings that explicitly contradict it, feel free to educate me.


No reason to. He has human durability by default. Wolverine once nearly killed him too.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No reason to. He has human durability by default. Wolverine once nearly killed him too.

Yes, I perfectly understand that his default level of durability is that of an ordinary human. It certainly doesn't dictate that it is his maximum limit. For someone who has operated on a cosmic scale on many an occasion, giving himself a durability boost really isn't beyond his abilities.

Wolverine nearly killing him isn't actual definitive proof of anything either. Wolverine has a habit of pulling off ridiculous feats that otherwise shouldn't be possible for someone so low on the food chain. Its the power of characters driven by popularity.

As for this particular scenario, surely Owen isn't so dumb to not recognize the threat that is Superman and adapt accordingly. After all, Owen is a character with the capacity to do almost anything. Certainly he's capable of something as simple as common sense; just as Superman would recognize his best advantage against Owen is his superior speed.

Originally posted by Orrsome28
Yes, I perfectly understand that his default level of durability is that of an ordinary human. It certainly doesn't dictate that it is his maximum limit. For someone who has operated on a cosmic scale on many an occasion, giving himself a durability boost really isn't beyond his abilities.

Wolverine nearly killing him isn't actual definitive proof of anything either. Wolverine has a habit of pulling off ridiculous feats that otherwise shouldn't be possible for someone so low on the food chain. Its the power of characters driven by popularity.

As for this particular scenario, surely Owen isn't so dumb to not recognize the threat that is Superman and adapt accordingly. After all, Owen is a character with the capacity to do almost anything. Certainly he's capable of something as simple as common sense; just as Superman would recognize his best advantage against Owen is his superior speed.
So, Owen thinks to boost his durability when he has never done so in combat?

Seems likely. Also Klaw has defeated him too.

qucikdraw situation

Originally posted by abhilegend
So, Owen thinks to boost his durability when he has never done so in combat?

Seems likely. Also Klaw has defeated him too.

Why not? I can't think of a valid reason why he couldn't or wouldn't if the need arose. He isn't an idiot. Self-preservation is a strong motivator as well. It seems you believe characters are strictly limited in what they are capable of in hypothetical scenarios such as this by displayed feats or lack thereof, regardless of their depicted intelligence, creative uses of their abilities, and all-around common sense.

Just because I haven't thought to do particular things before does not mean I'm not capable of them had I given it thought nor does it imply that I won't think to do it ever. Its poor logic.

Regarding Claw, its not conclusive evidence either as all characters have low showings. Its no more valid than Owen's most high-end feats being beyond Superman's abilities.

Originally posted by Orrsome28
He isn't an idiot. That's where you're wrong. He is an idiot.

Anyway, that post was more a joke than anything. Superman knocking him out isn't that far fetched when Captain America has KOED him. Take it or leave it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's where you're wrong. He is an idiot.

Anyway, that post was more a joke than anything. Superman knocking him out isn't that far fetched when Captain America has KOED him. Take it or leave it.



Owen, as you stated, has been knocked out by the likes of Captain America before. Its not the only time he has been duped by comparatively lower characters, I know; but even a mouse can make its way through a maze with the right incentives and learn from its many mistakes along the way, despite it's vastly inferior intelligence. Owen can surely learn from his own mistakes too. His incentive for fighting smarter is pretty obvious. Its well within his capabilities.

I never claimed Superman couldn't or wouldn't knock him out or outright win by a plethora of other equally reasonable means, I merely suggested that with some practical applications of Owen's powers the fight has the potential to be less one sided than it might appear.

Originally posted by Orrsome28
Owen, as you stated, has been knocked out by the likes of Captain America before. Its not the only time he has been duped by comparatively lower characters, I know; but even a mouse can make its way through a maze with the right incentives and learn from its many mistakes along the way, despite it's vastly inferior intelligence. Owen can surely learn from his own mistakes too. His incentive for fighting smarter is pretty obvious. Its well within his capabilities.

I never claimed Superman couldn't or wouldn't knock him out or outright win by a plethora of other equally reasonable means, I merely suggested that with some practical applications of Owen's powers the fight has the potential to be less one sided than it might appear.
OK, Fair enough.

Originally posted by abhilegend
OK, Fair enough.

Haha, yeah.

ermm

MM kills Superman!!

With a few rare exceptions, Owen is typically written as a mentally unstable, borderline idiot. The reason for this is simple: if Owen possessed genius-level intellect, he would be nigh-unstoppable--in fact, we saw what an intelligent/no holds barred Owen is capable of during F4 Annual #27. That said, your average writer typically doesn't like to utilize trans-multiversal cosmic Gods in his/her works, ergo Owen's mental neutering.

Originally posted by Galan007
With a few rare exceptions, Owen is typically written as a mentally unstable, borderline idiot. The reason for this is simple: if Owen possessed genius-level intellect, he would be nigh-unstoppable--in fact, we saw what an intelligent/no holds barred Owen is capable of during F4 Annual #27. That said, your average writer typically doesn't like to utilize unbeatable cosmic Gods in his/her works, ergo Owen's mental neutering.

Molecule Man mercs him.

Originally posted by Galan007
With a few rare exceptions, Owen is typically written as a mentally unstable, borderline idiot. The reason for this is simple: if Owen possessed genius-level intellect, he would be nigh-unstoppable--in fact, we saw what an intelligent/no holds barred Owen is capable of during F4 Annual #27. That said, your average writer typically doesn't like to utilize trans-multiversal cosmic Gods in his/her works, ergo Owen's mental neutering.

You raise some fine points; however, idiots are an awfully resistant breed and that alone tips the scale toward Owen in my book.

Supes.

MM wins via speed blitz.

spite against superman

Originally posted by bbrem123
spite against superman
It isn't. Super speed KO ftw.

vin

MM attempts speed blitz......................Breaks every bone in his body when he does it.

The house of EL wins.

Originally posted by God Cloth Seiya
The house of EL wins.

Always.