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Who among the Herald tier is the best? I don't mean solely against each other, but who would be able to handle the greatest variety of threats?

I would like this to be more of a mixture of CIS on CIS off debate, because PIS often runs so deep that it muddies the waters of what they can actually do, and what they actually do, or do not do in comics.

Superman
Thor
Silver Surfer
Hulk
Black Bolt
Blue Marvel
Flash
Orion
Wonder Woman
Captain Marvel/Black Adam
Blue Marvel
Hal Jordan

I know that there are many more that make up this tier, but too many competitors make for a terrible discussion. However if you can think of another character that would be better than the ones mentioned above, name them.

Let the butthurt-fest begin...

DC : Superman. It's no contest too. When SHTF, he out performs his "peers" by a LARGE margin.

Marvel : Thor or Surfer. Thor in terms of raw power output (hello Godblast). Surfer in terms of everything else : planetary level TP, time travel, planetary level matter manip, etc..

Originally posted by Reflassshh
Let the butthurt-fest begin...

There are simply too many characters for this to evolve into a butt-hurt bonanza.

Originally posted by zopzop
DC : Superman. It's no contest too. When SHTF, he out performs his "peers" by a LARGE margin.

Marvel : Thor or Surfer. Thor in terms of raw power output (hello Godblast). Surfer in terms of everything else : planetary level TP, time travel, planetary level matter manip, etc..

Pretend that they are all in the same universe. Who is the King or Queen?

Originally posted by Stoic
Pretend that they are all in the same universe. Who is the King or Queen?
No can do.

Thor/Surfer/Superman are too close to call. Each of them having their specific strengths/weaknesses.

In DC it's Supes. The undisputed King of the Herald Tier there.

In Marvel it's a toss up between Thor and Surfer.

Originally posted by Stoic
Who among the Herald tier is the best? I don't mean solely against each other, but who would be able to handle the greatest variety of threats?

I would like this to be more of a mixture of CIS on CIS off debate, because PIS often runs so deep that it muddies the waters of what they can actually do, and what they actually do, or do not do in comics.

Superman
Thor
Silver Surfer
Hulk
Black Bolt
Blue Marvel
Flash
Orion
Wonder Woman
Captain Marvel/Black Adam
Blue Marvel
Hal Jordan

I know that there are many more that make up this tier, but too many competitors make for a terrible discussion. However if you can think of another character that would be better than the ones mentioned above, name them.




lol wow I was thinking if doing a thread much like this earlier today ...
nice..

Originally posted by zopzop
No can do.

Thor/Surfer/Superman are too close to call. Each of them having their specific strengths/weaknesses.

In DC it's Supes. The undisputed King of the Herald Tier there.

In Marvel it's a toss up between Thor and Surfer.





I hear you Zopzop!
Its tough to pick just one..

Dc its Supes and Marvel its Thor or Surfer


If I was forced to pick just one, I have to go with Silver Surfer
he can do alittle of everything.

Who I think should be up there:
Blue Marvel
Manhunter
Flash
Jordan

Who is up there currently:
Thor

Originally posted by Stoic
There are simply too many characters for this to evolve into a butt-hurt bonanza.

Famous last words.

Originally posted by Stoic
I don't mean solely against each other, but who would be able to handle the greatest variety of threats?

Anyway, the answer is Surfer. Preboot Kal might have the most raw power, but he also has more exploitable weaknesses than Surfer and Thor, who are the other logical choices. This isn't a H2H, where Superman fares much better within his own tier. But because of your stips, he gets knocked down a peg.

And the wild card entries that you didn't mention are the mages: Talisman and Classic Strange. Because of how your OP is worded, with versatility in the face of any kind of threat being an advantage, they may actually be the best heralds for the job.

Classic Dr. Strange could legitimately do anything, and beat anyone.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
Classic Dr. Strange could legitimately do anything, and beat anyone.

That's not quite true. He's got a few uber showings, several average to good feats, and a ton of inexplicably low ones. There's a reason he's down to HH (originally he was Trans.). But on versatility, yes, he's the man.

Hulk

Originally posted by guy222
Hulk

Originally posted by Stoic
who would be able to handle the greatest variety of threats?

I don't think the green one makes the cut here.

Thor. Easily

Also want to throw the Lanterns into the mix.

Alan Scott? Mystical, plus I can do anything with my ring?

It's gotta be a tie between Thor and Surfer: they have too much raw power plus versatility.
Thor has the edge on physical power and Surfer, on versatility. I can't choose.

Superman in DC, Thor or Surfer in Marvel.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman in DC, Thor or Surfer in Marvel.

Superman

I'd pick Alan Scott before Superman, considering his green flame combines the versatility of cosmic power with magic. Speeding up time to evolve a race to extinction, for example. Or whipping up a mace that allowed Hawkman to beat down Black Adam.

Originally posted by cdtm
I'd pick Alan Scott before Superman, considering his green flame combines the versatility of cosmic power with magic. Speeding up time to evolve a race to extinction, for example. Or whipping up a mace that allowed Hawkman to beat down Black Adam.
Alan has actually said that Superman is the most powerful being on earth.

Superman is afraid of fighting Manjobber

That makes no sense

When you can warp reality a gut who can punch really hard and fast shouldn't be anywhere on your radar

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
That makes no sense

When you can warp reality a gut who can punch really hard and fast shouldn't be anywhere on your radar

Not to mention, it was technically Alan Scott who beat down Adam easier than Superman or Captain Marvel ever did. Hawkman was just the delivery mechanism, but it's Alans power that made it possible.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Superman is afraid of fighting Manjobber
He was just boosting his Morales.

Originally posted by cdtm
Not to mention, it was technically Alan Scott who beat down Adam easier than Superman or Captain Marvel ever did. Hawkman was just the delivery mechanism, but it's Alans power that made it possible.
You mean after Adam was weakened? If we're going by who beat who, a young superman oneshot killed Grundy when he beat the shit out of Alan. With no wood weakness if I might add.

Originally posted by Stoic
Who among the Herald tier is the best? I don't mean solely against each other, but who would be able to handle the greatest variety of threats?

I would like this to be more of a mixture of CIS on CIS off debate, because PIS often runs so deep that it muddies the waters of what they can actually do, and what they actually do, or do not do in comics.

Superman
Thor
Silver Surfer
Hulk
Black Bolt
Blue Marvel
Flash
Orion
Wonder Woman
Captain Marvel/Black Adam
Blue Marvel
Hal Jordan

I know that there are many more that make up this tier, but too many competitors make for a terrible discussion. However if you can think of another character that would be better than the ones mentioned above, name them.


Where's SENTRY?

He died.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
Where's SENTRY?
Craptastic characters don't count.

Originally posted by carver9
Thor. Easily
This.

Originally posted by Stoic
Who among the Herald tier is the best? I don't mean solely against each other, but who would be able to handle the greatest variety of threats?

I would like this to be more of a mixture of CIS on CIS off debate, because PIS often runs so deep that it muddies the waters of what they can actually do, and what they actually do, or do not do in comics.

Superman
Thor
Silver Surfer
Hulk
Black Bolt
Blue Marvel
Flash
Orion
Wonder Woman
Captain Marvel/Black Adam
Blue Marvel
Hal Jordan

I know that there are many more that make up this tier, but too many competitors make for a terrible discussion. However if you can think of another character that would be better than the ones mentioned above, name them.

Surfer has the speed, power, and versatility. But may have problems against magical beings.
Superman has the speed and power but lacks versatility and may have problems against magical beings.
Thor has the power and versatility and can do well against magical beings.

I would go with Surfer, although I would choose Thor if he was just as fast. But the high majority of threats are not fast as shit. So Thor would be close. I just think Surfer is more powerful, faster, and has (or uses) more versatility.

Superman is powerful but his mentality is his weakness and his lack of versatility.

Hal is a good choice but his ring needs to be recharged by a battery and his will isn't always strong as it could be. Given that he never runs out of juice and his will is always high then he would be a very close contender. The rest of the characters are lmao No.

Currently the Correct Answer is Thor.

Supes, Manjobber, Surfer & BM are probably the only real guys I could see taking that spot, but honestly if you beat Thor your kinds required to be Trans imho.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman is powerful but his mentality is his weakness and his lack of versatility.

Watch yourself!

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Currently the Correct Answer is Thor.

Supes, Manjobber, Surfer & BM are probably the only real guys I could see taking that spot, but honestly if you beat Thor your kinds required to be Trans imho. BS, Any high herald can beat Thor, even Hulk. Thor's mentality is a weakness (warrior mentality). His lack of speed is a weakness. He need for Mjolnir is a weakness (he's vastly weaker when Mjolnir gets knocked from his hand or he is without it momentarily).

Surfer or Superman can beat the shit out of him in a forum fight.
Beating Surfer or Superman with ease puts a characters into Trans category or beyond with no questions asked or no debate at all.

We are talking about who is the best person to have against any random threat, not who will win in a forum fight. Thor would lose in a forum fight against the top heralds but is very close to tops when it comes to defending against random threats (above Superman even). This is because he can deal with magic better and is very versatile and has a good degree of power. Surfer slightly edges him out because of speed, and being more versatile in practice (not theory).

And BM shouldn't be in the discussion since he's nowhere near versatile enough or fast enough.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Watch yourself! Actually that's a good thing. Superman holding back and equaling to Surfer or Thor etc. just means he is really out of their league when he stops holding back. Think about it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Actually that's a good thing. Superman holding back and equaling to Surfer or Thor etc. just means he is really out of their league when he stops holding back. Think about it.

http://comiccoverage.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8345158e369e200e5531c3cfa8833-150wi

APPROVED!

Originally posted by h1a8
BS, Any high herald can beat Thor, even Hulk. Thor's mentality is a weakness (warrior mentality). His lack of speed is a weakness. He need for Mjolnir is a weakness (he's vastly weaker when Mjolnir gets knocked from his hand or he is without it momentarily).

Surfer or Superman can beat the shit out of him in a forum fight.
Beating Surfer or Superman with ease puts a characters into Trans category or beyond with no questions asked or no debate at all.

We are talking about who is the best person to have against any random threat, not who will win in a forum fight. Thor would lose in a forum fight against the top heralds but is very close to tops when it comes to defending against random threats (above Superman even). This is because he can deal with magic better and is very versatile and has a good degree of power. Surfer slightly edges him out because of speed, and being more versatile in practice (not theory).

And BM shouldn't be in the discussion since he's nowhere near versatile enough or fast enough. Thor of the 3 suffers the least from personality induced hinderances and the fact you say Surfer or Kal can beat a weakened Thor while true is asinine. The fact you believe Mjoinir is the only reason for Thor being in this discussion is pretty telling in itself. BM and honestly Hyperion could easily have cases made for them being in the top spot.

Lol if we want to talk about a forum fight, then Flash

Surfer overall due to versatility and speed.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Thor of the 3 suffers the least from personality induced hinderances and the fact you say Surfer or Kal can beat a weakened Thor while true is asinine. The fact you believe Mjoinir is the only reason for Thor being in this discussion is pretty telling in itself. BM and honestly Hyperion could easily have cases made for them being in the top spot. I'm not referring to holding back. I'm referring to willingness to use exotic powers or being versatile. Thor's warrior mentality often prevents him from fighting that way. He could easily bfr a lot of threats and be done with it but he doesn't. Without Mjolnir, Thor is a low herald easily. He would get dog walked by any mid or high herald level being. Without Mjolnir, Thor has no flight. Without transportation how can you deal with threats? You are as useless as a doorknob.



Neither BM or Hyperion should be in the discussion because of their lack of versatility.
How can they stop a variety of threats? Can they create shields to protect others, absorb energy, bfr things, transmute matter, etc.? I can think of many different enemies they would be useless against. Even Superman isn't versatile enough to deal with all types of threats.
Surfer, Thor, and Hal are in the discussion because of their versatility.
Surfer is easily number one because of his more consistent versatility, speed, and great power. Thor would be a close number 2 since he has power and potential versatility, but isn't as fast and suffers from fighting like a warrior.

How can you consistently be wrong all the time, and not learn the error of your ways?

I'd pick it apart but your literally wrong on every part and aspect of your post and have been shown multiple times emphatically that you are mistaken, at this point its a lost cause.

Alan wins.

1.Surfer
2.Thor/Alan
3.Superman/Blue Marvel

Orion should be near Thor.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
How can you consistently be wrong all the time, and not learn the error of your ways?

I'd pick it apart but your literally wrong on every part and aspect of your post and have been shown multiple times emphatically that you are mistaken, at this point its a lost cause.

What is BM or Hyperion going to do with a great magical threat?
What are they going to do against a vast amount of energy that's aimed at the planet?
What are they going to do against intangible beings?
What are they going to do against telepaths?
I can go on and on. That's why we need someone very versatile to deal with a variety of threats. Not someone who is only powerful.

Surfer, Hal, and Thor can deal with a so much larger variety of threats it's not funny. Mentioning BM or Hyperion in the discussion is asinine.

As far as Thor, he mostly fights like a warrior. Assuming he didn't and both him and Surfer fought to their potential then Surfer still slightly edges him out due to speed. Plus Mjolnir can be manipulated (controlled by magnetism, knocked from Thor, etc.)

this is a pretty easy one in my opinion and its sentry

bob has fought hand to hand slugging it out with hulk
fought and defeated owen using his matter manip skills
he shows a wide array of power sets can handle any threat bob is your king!

Captain America or Superman

Sentinel Alan is Trans. And GL Alan isn't in this discussion on versatility.

Sentry isn't HH either. People didn't forget him; they're just following the OP.

Anyone saying Thor lacks versatility needs to read some of his older - still canon - material. Mjolnir has more powers than Megaman in the final boss battle.

Hal-'Will of God'-Jordan.

How about Majestic?

Or Plutonian.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Or Plutonian.

Above Herald level.

Where feats are concerned, I would actually disagree that Plutonian is above the herald tier.

Majestic doesn't have any more raw power than Thor, and less versatility. He may actually be a better choice than Kal, not because he has more power (he doesn't) but because he has no discernible weaknesses.

Plutonian is an odd case for a number of reasons. Whether from lack of definitive power level, or you think he's > HH, I'd say he should be ignored for this thread.

Thor/Surfer remains the best choice. 1-v-1 Superman or Hal are valid choices, but not with OP stips. The mages work too, but if I literally didn't know what challenge or opponent they'd have to face, I'd take Thor.

Flash speed blitzes them all.

Originally posted by God Cloth Seiya
Flash speed blitzes them all.

Unless the threat is that a Sun Eater is eating the Sun......

Thor. You have a high herald wielding a weapon that can harm Galactus level beings and outright slay skyfathers at it's best. No contest imo.

Surfer can literally do anything but just doesn't possess quite as much raw power as Thor does.

Superman. give him good enough reason and he will beat any odds. not joking and isnt BS,thats just the character superman is. he is like the fat boy in the class, who can probably beat the crap out of everybody, but wont do it until someone push him to his limits.

Superman is *the* Superhero, with a capital S. He is the greatest, mightiest of them all; it's his thing.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Thor. You have a high herald wielding a weapon that can harm Galactus level beings and outright slay skyfathers at it's best. No contest imo.

Surfer can literally do anything but just doesn't possess quite as much raw power as Thor does.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Thor. You have a high herald wielding a weapon that can harm Galactus level beings and outright slay skyfathers at it's best. No contest imo.

Surfer can literally do anything but just doesn't possess quite as much raw power as Thor does. Surfer black hole blasts are beyond anything. Nothing matches that stuff.

Thor's mentality prevents him from being versatile. Mjolnir can be knocked away or manipulated. Thor is not as fast as Surfer.

Jeezits

Thor can create antimatter

Anti matter > Black holes.

Thors Warrior mentality > Surfers pacifist nature

Mjoinir is FASTER than Surfer as shown on panel.

Lol at Surfer manipulating Mjoinir.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Jeezits

Thor can create antimatter

Anti matter > Black holes.

Thors Warrior mentality > Surfers pacifist nature

Mjoinir is FASTER than Surfer as shown on panel.

Lol at Surfer manipulating Mjoinir.

I don't think I want to see the post that this was a response to.

The poster has posted the same thing that I was responding to 3 times so don't look back.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Jeezits

Thor can create antimatter

Anti matter > Black holes.

Thors Warrior mentality > Surfers pacifist nature

Mjoinir is FASTER than Surfer as shown on panel.

Lol at Surfer manipulating Mjoinir.

A straight troll is what you are.

Black holes >> anything in the universe.

Good thing Thor isn't creating any antimatter soon.
Thor's warrior mentality makes him never number 1.

Surfer being a pacifist has nothing to do with stopping all types of threats.


Mjiolnir is slow as shit. It takes a long time for it to build up speed.
Who even mentioned Surfer manipulating Mjolnir?

Mjolnir can be manipulated by magnetic means, force field traps, knowing it from Thor, etc.

I'm trolling?

No

On panel evidence shows him being able to do so when needed.

Please meditate on how stupid you sound saying that

Lol no.

Knowing it from Thor? Do you mean vs Worthy opponents? Because that's a threat

Originally posted by h1a8
A straight troll is what you are.

Black holes >> anything in the universe.

Good thing Thor isn't creating any antimatter soon.
Thor's warrior mentality makes him never number 1.

Surfer being a pacifist has nothing to do with stopping all types of threats.


Mjiolnir is slow as shit. It takes a long time for it to build up speed.
Who even mentioned Surfer manipulating Mjolnir?

Mjolnir can be manipulated by magnetic means, force field traps, knowing it from Thor, etc.
Say what?

Surfer.

He can do "anything" with the PC.

http://i60.tinypic.com/14tq892.png

Originally posted by One-Punch
Surfer.

He can do "anything" with the PC.

http://i60.tinypic.com/14tq892.png

lol

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Jeezits

Thor can create antimatter

Anti matter > Black holes.

Thors Warrior mentality > Surfers pacifist nature

Mjoinir is FASTER than Surfer as shown on panel.

Lol at Surfer manipulating Mjoinir. Hal one-pieced Krona, who was able to usurp all of the emotional entities. Hal also bent Nekron himself to his will.

Hal wins.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
I'm trolling?

No

On panel evidence shows him being able to do so when needed.

Please meditate on how stupid you sound saying that

Lol no.

Knowing it from Thor? Do you mean vs Worthy opponents? Because that's a threat yes you are

Black holes at the singularity rips you with infinite force. The only way to survive is inside the event horizon without touching the singularity.

You mean in the classic days, 50 years ago maybe?
That's like saying Superman has tvoed when he needed to.

Being opposed to conflict or war unless pushed has nothing to do with stopping threats. Threats can be from forces of nature, not necessarily a being. Stopping threats with exotic powers doesn't mean you have to kill the being.

mjolnir has never traveled light speed or beyond in the first instant. Thor always had to whirl it to build up speed.

mjolnir can be trapped momentarily with force fields. It has been knocked from Thor's hand before. Thor has been rocked and made to drop it. It has been manipulated magnetically. Grabbing Thor's wrist, preventing him from using it is an option. Thor has thrown and missed his targets, or targets hit it away or blocked it leaving Thor defenseless. Bottomline, lack of Mjolnir is a weakness.

Thor would have serious issues dealing with very fast threats.

From what I gather at this thread being four pages long, none of these "Kings" seems undisputed at all.

So yeah, that's my answer.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Thor. You have a high herald wielding a weapon that can harm Galactus level beings and outright slay skyfathers at it's best. No contest imo.

Surfer can literally do anything but just doesn't possess quite as much raw power as Thor does.
Thor without mjolnir isn't a high herald.

Originally posted by Galan007
Hal one-pieced Krona, who was able to usurp all of the emotional entities. Hal also bent Nekron himself to his will.

Hal wins.
Heh, if we're using *those* types of feats here Superman is going to beat everyone here.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Thor without mjolnir isn't a high herald.

Nitpicking his comment. He does have Mjolnir, so it's a moot point. As it is, Sorrow's post was pretty spot on.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Jeezits

Thor can create antimatter

Anti matter > Black holes.

Thors Warrior mentality > Surfers pacifist nature

Mjoinir is FASTER than Surfer as shown on panel.

Lol at Surfer manipulating Mjoinir.

Nah, black holes munch antimatter just as they munch regular matter.

That said.. Surfer cannot "black hole blast" other heralds while engaged in combat with them. Pure speculation.

Originally posted by abhilegend
*fapfapfapfapfapfapfap*Supez iz teh bst evah!!!*fapfapfapfapfapfapfap* Fixed.

Originally posted by Digi
Nitpicking his comment. He does have Mjolnir, so it's a moot point. As it is, Sorrow's post was pretty spot on.
"A high herald with mjolnir" isn't correct. Anyway any high herald worth his salt has feats like that.

Originally posted by Magnon
Nah, black holes munch antimatter just as they munch regular matter.

That said.. Surfer cannot "black hole blast" other heralds while engaged in combat with them. Pure speculation. we have seen on panel the effects of both, Black holes are like Cosmic spa's compared to antimatter blasts.

Originally posted by Galan007
Fixed.
You know me too well!!!!!!!!!!




Seriously though, where is all this coming from Galan?

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Jeezits

Thor can create antimatter

Anti matter > Black holes.

Thors Warrior mentality > Surfers pacifist nature

Mjoinir is FASTER than Surfer as shown on panel.

Lol at Surfer manipulating Mjoinir.

I don't agree with h1's exaggerations of Surfer, but you've stated a few things that are just factually wrong.

I'm going to assume your talking speed and only speed while implying more than that?

Originally posted by pym-ftw
I'm going to assume your talking speed and only speed while implying more than that?
Your statement about speed can obviously be disputed by anyone who read Mighty Thor. At the end of the Galactus arc Surfer's power level was tied to Earth and Galactus stated that the farther from Earth he traveled the weaker he would become. Hence why Surfer chasing and losing Mjolnir--which was moving very fast and very far from Earth--isn't proof that Mjolnir > Surfer in speed. Not to mention Surfer only lost Mjolnir 'cause it went into another dimension, it didn't out-speed him.

Saying anti-matter > a black hole is dubious and relative. It depends on how much anti-matter and how big the black hole is. Both vary in their comic depictions, you have black holes the size of a base-ball, and some big enough to consume a universe. A regular black hole can be tanked by a high herald, but a huge one can probably kill a high herald. E.g., Red-shift was "killed" by one, and a 2 light-year wide black hole has damaged Thanos more so than any high herald has ever accomplished. Plus, Surfer has traveled into the core of a black hole filled with anti-matter, and emerged unscathed, so there's that.

You probably shouldn't "lol" at Surfer manipulating Mjolnir. In his very first fight with Thor that's exactly what he did; Surfer used his PC to separate Mjolnir from Thor, and while Thor was busy trying to get his hammer back (and he did), Surfer used that opportunity to blast Thor into submission. That tactic brought Thor down to Surfer's mercy. Although Surfer was amped by Loki, prior to the fight Surfer was depowered and only had a fraction of his original power.

I agree with your pacifist statement though. Surfer has directly stated he could open black holes in the eyeballs of his enemies or phase a person out of existence by manipulating their atoms, but he admits its not in his character to do so.

Closing. Comic book physics and real life physics are not always congruent. Arguing about it never gets anywhere.