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Korvac is not allowed to use telepathy or manipulate Ultron's energies.

Korvac is at full power. Juggernaut is at full normal power. Ultron is at Ultron Unlimited levels.

They fight in a grassy wasteland. No BFR.

Who wins!?!?!?

How does Korvac not stomp?

IDK, I ran out of durable characters to throw against Korvac.

Throw WWH in there too. He's not allowed to drain Hulk either.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
IDK, I ran out of durable characters to throw against Korvac.

Throw WWH in there too. He's not allowed to drain Hulk either.
Call me crazy, but isn't Korvac recognized as high trans/low skyfather...........at least?

It was more a question of the durability of said characters that I've been reading today, as well as figuring out a placement for Korvac. It was going to be just Ultron vs Korvac, and then Juggernaut has been a hot topic, plus I didn't feel good about just Ultron vs Korvac. Not so much about Juggernaut/Ultron vs him either, but then again I just read Academy.

Basically, Korvac has to knock these characters out, or destroy Ultron to win. Ultron with his shields and primary adamantium and trans level power. Obviously he is way more powerful, but challenges arise.

Plus, as powerful as Korvac was, he wasn't impervious to harm. Though he was never whittled down enough, he was still able to be injured.

If we add three sponges with decent output as well, it'd seem a good test as a placement to Korvac.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
It was more a question of the durability of said characters that I've been reading today, as well as figuring out a placement for Korvac. It was going to be just Ultron vs Korvac, and then Juggernaut has been a hot topic, plus I didn't feel good about just Ultron vs Korvac. Not so much about Juggernaut/Ultron vs him either, but then again I just read Academy.

Basically, Korvac has to knock these characters out, or destroy Ultron to win. Ultron with his shields and primary adamantium and trans level power. Obviously he is way more powerful, but challenges arise.

Plus, as powerful as Korvac was, he wasn't impervious to harm. Though he was never whittled down enough, he was still able to be injured.

If we add three sponges with decent output as well, it'd seem a good test as a placement to Korvac.
Ah, ok. I see what you mean.

IMHO, he still beats them then. His raw power output is no joke. If people disagree I'm fine with that too (I saw a post on Comicvine a while back while googling for some scans and the poster had me doubting Korvac's power level so people here may have the same views).

Spite...rage spite...team has no prayer against Korvac.

Granted, 616 Korvac never demonstrated what he could really do (so he has little in the way of bonafide feats; he did one shot kill the Collector from Earth while the Collector was in space though); the famous What If showed what he was truly capable of...

He one shot killed Grandmaster and the Inbetweener (now while not canon as per forum rules, his exploits during the What If in question was mentioned in the official handbook)...

All signs point to Korvac being beyond Skyfather (during the original Korvac saga, it was continually emphasized that he was superior to Odin)...

Korvac

Team wins.

Originally posted by carver9
Team wins.

Based on?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Spite...rage spite...team has no prayer against Korvac.

Granted, 616 Korvac never demonstrated what he could really do (so he has little in the way of bonafide feats; he did one shot kill the Collector from Earth while the Collector was in space though); the famous What If showed what he was truly capable of...

He one shot killed Grandmaster and the Inbetweener (now while not canon as per forum rules, his exploits during the What If in question was mentioned in the official handbook)...

All signs point to Korvac being beyond Skyfather (during the original Korvac saga, it was continually emphasized that he was superior to Odin)... Well, like you said, it wasn't canon. And In-Betweener would trash Korvac badly in a fight so that farther calls into question bringing it up.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Well, like you said, it wasn't canon. And In-Betweener would trash Korvac badly in a fight so that farther calls into question bringing it up.

Maybe, maybe not...

Do to his lack of feats of extreme power (which unfortunately only are present in that What If), it can be difficult to place him...

As per valid feats, zopzops assessment of him being High Trans/Low Skyfather is reasonable...

As per implied power (as per the original writing) Korvac is beyond Odin...

In either case, I firmly believe Korvac beats this team...

Worse case senario its a stalemate as the team simply cant muster enough offense to kill Korvac...

It took a bomb capable of destroying one-fifth of the universe to take out Korvac during the storyline that featured Grandmaster and Death; this team doesnt have that of offensive output...

Scratch that; team has no prayer against Korvac...

Korvac grabbed Surfer and effortlessly melted his silver skin off of him; Korvacs matter manip trumps anything this team could do to defend themselves with...

Korvac crushes them...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Scratch that; team has no prayer against Korvac...

Korvac grabbed Surfer and effortlessly melted his silver skin off of him; Korvacs matter manip trumps anything this team could do to defend themselves with...

Korvac crushes them... The whole intention behind this thread was that Korvac was limited to just using raw power to win.

If I didn't want him to drain Ultron, I certainly don't want him to matter manip him either. Though everyone has their debatable defenses towards it, it's best to take it away entirely.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Worse case senario its a stalemate as the team simply cant muster enough offense to kill Korvac...

It took a bomb capable of destroying one-fifth of the universe to take out Korvac during the storyline that featured Grandmaster and Death; this team doesnt have that of offensive output... It destroyed him. That's not to say it took that much power to destroy him, it just was too much power outright.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
The whole intention behind this thread was that Korvac was limited to just using raw power to win.

If I didn't want him to drain Ultron, I certainly don't want him to matter manip him either. Though everyone has their debatable defenses towards it, it's best to take it away entirely.

It destroyed him. That's not to say it took that much power to destroy him, it just was too much power outright.

Ah...well in that case then I cant make a definitive argument for Korvac winning then; I would think he has the power to harm them with Brute Force, but I cant back it up with anything of substance...

How highly (or lowly) do you rate his killing of The Collector?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Ah...well in that case then I cant make a definitive argument for Korvac winning then; I would think he has the power to harm them with Brute Force, but I cant back it up with anything of substance...

How highly (or lowly) do you rate his killing of The Collector? I personally think Korvac wins, I just wanted to remove variables. The argument is there, you just have to grip it.

Quite. Collector is quite powerful. And it seems logical that he feigned defeat by the Avengers, but it's hard to feign disintegration.

Juggs solos ,not even LT can harm him or break his forcefield

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Ah...well in that case then I cant make a definitive argument for Korvac winning then; I would think he has the power to harm them with Brute Force, but I cant back it up with anything of substance...

How highly (or lowly) do you rate his killing of The Collector? Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I personally think Korvac wins, I just wanted to remove variables. The argument is there, you just have to grip it.

Quite. Collector is quite powerful. And it seems logical that he feigned defeat by the Avengers, but it's hard to feign disintegration.
Guys that version of the Collector was having a heart attack having to deal with a pretty unimperssive team of Avengers. He literally looked like the typical geriatric that you see in those "I'm having chest pains" commercials for Lifeline.

Korvac struck and killed him during his heart attack.

Originally posted by zopzop
Guys that version of the Collector was having a heart attack having to deal with a pretty unimperssive team of Avengers. He literally looked like the typical geriatric that you see in those "I'm having chest pains" commercials for Lifeline.

Korvac struck and killed him during his heart attack.

You know, I get that, but he did the exact same thing to a fully healthy Grandmaster in the What If...

And yes, I know that What If isnt canon, but I just think that this What If is a special case where the goal was to demonstrate Korvacs power and how dangerous he truly was...

Probably a dumb question but why are what ifs inadmissible? I mean very canon stories are often full of pis and we (should) know it when we see it. A lot of Cosmic characters have few feats outside of them so we end up just arguing hype & hierarchy.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Plus, as powerful as Korvac was, he wasn't impervious to harm. Though he was never whittled down enough, he was still able to be injured.

Tbf, the only one able to injure him in Avengers Academy was Thor (The others were only able to hurt him after his energies were drained fighting Thor) and Korvac beat him up:
http://s24.postimg.org/lf3h0zl1d/AA_11_Legion_CPS_010.jpghttp://s24.postimg.org/rma9nerep/AA_11_Legion_CPS_012.jpg

http://s24.postimg.org/oagk7up1d/AA_11_Legion_CPS_021.jpghttp://s24.postimg.org/saj46cq4h/AA_11_Legion_CPS_022.jpghttp://s24.postimg.org/tjbl5q7gh/AA_11_Legion_CPS_023.jpghttp://s24.postimg.org/3mhwt43sx/AA_11_Legion_CPS_024.jpghttp://s24.postimg.org/t40bcplj5/AA_11_Legion_CPS_025.jpg

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
You know, I get that, but he did the exact same thing to a fully healthy Grandmaster in the What If...

And yes, I know that What If isnt canon, but I just think that this What If is a special case where the goal was to demonstrate Korvacs power and how dangerous he truly was...
It's actually mentioned in the LT's Handbook entry (I think) But...........

It was only one showing and it was full of inconsistencies (although to be fair to Gruenwald it was one of his earlier works).

616 Korvac before and after that What If was never anywhere near that level. I'm not saying he's not powerful, cause he is, but he's around high trans/low skyfather at best.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Probably a dumb question but why are what ifs inadmissible? I mean very canon stories are often full of pis and we (should) know it when we see it. A lot of Cosmic characters have few feats outside of them so we end up just arguing hype & hierarchy.

As far as I know its because What Ifs are much more inconsistent and PIS filled than standard canon stories...

For example, there is as a What If where Thor literally kills Savage Hulk in 2 attacks; one standard Mjolnir strike, then Thor breaks his neck...game over.

Now I like Thor; hes one of my favorite characters, but he cant run through the Hulk that easily...

And that sort of thing is common in What Ifs...