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Hi guys I say I can see this as a good fight, we can put them all at their best most powerful, like wfmxy, classicbeyonder and so on. I am leaning to team 1 or a stalemate but I am not sure.

Any ONE person on T2 would decimate T1.

T2

It's possible that Lucifer could manipulate Mxy into battling his own team but that's the only way they could win. It's slim but easily within character. Team two for the clear power advantage though. Lucifer makes the thread interesting if he can buy some time he's like what Steve Rogers imagines himself as when he leads people. Team two 8/10

If you guys look at Solars respect thread hes like a god and michael and lucifer we can say are like a god so how can team two stomp them? lucifer is also super smart and michael has the presences power which lucifer can use I think it is more close than people are saying.

Team 2 is more powerful, however Team 1 has the most resourceful and intelligent character on this battlefield.

Team Lucifer wins it when Michael starts busting out multiverse after multiverse regardless of his condition

Dear lord..why did you not feel that having Lucifer on the team makes Solar utterly pointless? Since it does. He might as well be Batman.

Originally posted by Killemall
Hi guys I say I can see this as a good fight, we can put them all at their best most powerful, like wfmxy, classicbeyonder and so on. I am leaning to team 1 or a stalemate but I am not sure.

Originally posted by Killemall
we can put them all at their best most powerful, like wfmxy, classicbeyonder and so on

Originally posted by Killemall
wfmxy

Thing is, Worlds Finest Mxy is powerful, but Lucifer tanked a multiversal explosion. I don't think Mxy showed in WF, or anywhere, that he has firepower exceeding a multiversal explosion.

He might be overall stronger, but it's like trying to squash an insanely durable bug.

T2 has the weak link in Scathan

Originally posted by Surtur
Thing is, Worlds Finest Mxy is powerful, but Lucifer tanked a multiversal explosion. I don't think Mxy showed in WF, or anywhere, that he has firepower exceeding a multiversal explosion.

He might be overall stronger, but it's like trying to squash an insanely durable bug.
In WF, mxy destroyed and recreated the multiverse with a snap of his finger.

Originally posted by Surtur
Thing is, Worlds Finest Mxy is powerful, but Lucifer tanked a multiversal explosion. I don't think Mxy showed in WF, or anywhere, that he has firepower exceeding a multiversal explosion.

He might be overall stronger, but it's like trying to squash an insanely durable bug.

....

He casually...CASUALLY, destroyed, then recreated the multiverses. Without really trying. Imagine if he made the effort...

Originally posted by abhilegend
In WF, mxy destroyed and recreated the multiverse with a snap of his finger.

I guess it's been a while since I read it. Though still, Solar is going to feel awfully self conscious about the fact he is here.

WF Mxy destroyed the prime/infinite multiverse + all of DC's pasts and futures + every higher dimensional plane, such as the 4th World and 5th Dimension(which are nigh-infinitely larger than the prime 3-D multiverse.) He then recreated it all with a snap of his fingers, and made plans to do the same thing "next Tuesday".

As crazy as it sounds, to only call that feat "multiversal" is to low-ball the shit out of it. It was far beyond the multiversal class.

So..omniversal?

There's also the part where we see Mxy and Bat mite in the Gemworld. Same Gemworld which was outright stated to exist outside of the multiverse in one of the letter pages of Tales of the Legion of Superheroes (which is between issue #314 and #354).


As for the battle, anyone on T2 could solo. All of the characters there are above the LT, who's above Lucifer/Michael level. Solar, while he has insane feats, is not even Skfayther-level on average, so he's irrelevant to the fight either way.

Originally posted by Surtur
So..omniversal?
Yes.

Solar solos

Originally posted by operator616
Same Gemworld which was outright stated to exist outside of the multiverse in one of the letter pages of Tales of the Legion of Superheroes (which is between issue #314 and #354). I'm too lazy to skim through 40 issues, but do you happen to know the specific issue, and/or have the scan on hand? I mean, multiple other sources confirm that Gemworld is in a dimension of it's own:
http://imgur.com/pNT2cVv
http://imgur.com/UOog2Vg
http://imgur.com/DluPwZS

...But being disassociated from the multiverse all together puts Gemworld in a different class all together.

T2 got this

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm too lazy to skim through 40 issues, but do you happen to know the specific issue, and/or have the scan on hand? I mean, multiple other sources confirm that Gemworld is in a dimension of it's own:
http://imgur.com/pNT2cVv
http://imgur.com/UOog2Vg
http://imgur.com/DluPwZS

...But being disassociated from the multiverse all together puts Gemworld in a different class all together.

Gemworld being an other dimensional world was never in doubt to begin with, that much was stated on panel many times and not just in who's who bios or the Atlas or the history of DCU. Although it wasn't stated outright to be a standalone dimension in its initial appearnce (merely as another world/planet), i recall as far back as Amyethyst v1 #2 confirming that it exists in a dimension/plane of existence separate from Earth. And from that point on, it's been stated as such many times.

Anyway, here's the letter's page from issue #335:

http://i.imgur.com/8R8Wy8y.jpg?1
(continuation of text): http://i.imgur.com/upW10RS.jpg?1

The editor clarifies that dimensions outside the multiverse such as Bgztl (Phantom Girl's dimension) and the Gemworld are unaffected by the crisis as a result of being outside the multiverse. Here's the whole page, if you want to read it:

http://i.imgur.com/upW10RS.jpg

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Solar solos

Seriously...or joking?

Originally posted by operator616
issue #335: That's all I needed. Thanks.

http://i.imgur.com/2q9Tm17.jpg

Originally posted by operator616
Seriously...or joking? I don't see anything there that would indicate I'm joking

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I don't see anything there that would indicate I'm joking

Yeah, but it's a bit surprising for you to make such a comment. Since Solar hasn't shown anywhere near that level of power consistently. You are saying that a guy who constantly had problems with spider aliens, seemed to have big problems with X-O, was owned by some sentient crystals, admitted that he couldn't create a single planet, lost control because an energy of a single star was too much for him, was getting owned by some space fleet (at half power as i recall) etc... etc... can solo someone who's million times more powerful than multiversal beings, a guy who destroyed and recreated the multiverse and beyond with a snap of fingers, and a guy who defeated a being more powerful than LT...?

...That's why i asked if you're serious.

I'm glad we established that I was serious. With that in mind, no one can withstand Solar going all out.

Beyonder got rocked by Doom. Mxy got defeated by Magog, and Scathan is a measly Celestial. Human Torch springs to mind on their defense.

http://i.imgur.com/0jMSJib.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007
http://i.imgur.com/HQf2Voi.jpg

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I'm glad we established that I was serious. With that in mind, no one can withstand Solar going all out.

Beyonder got rocked by Doom. Mxy got defeated by Magog, and Scathan is a measly Celestial. Human Torch springs to mind on their defense.

Hmm..okay, then.

You really think that Solar's consistent trouble with the spider aliens and X-O (among plenty of others things which i can reference, but those two are examples on what level he consistently operates) equates to Doom staggering Beyonder in one instance or something? Beyonder is an established multiversal+ power, while Solar is a herald-level character (on average) maybe a bit more, closer to someone like Thor or Silver Surfer rather than to someone like Odin, (forget the Beyonder) who sometimes goes way beyond his norm to achieve some multiversal feat by chance (although he has one deliberate). Id like to hear more about this "all out" Solar though, what exactly do you have in mind, im curious?

This is WF Mxy. Read the OP.

So..."Measly Celestial" is the best that you can come up with? Really? Scathan was established to be above Protege, who was above LT, that's all we know. And as such, he'll stomp Solar without a doubt.

Lucifer loses.

Originally posted by Galan007
http://i.imgur.com/0jMSJib.jpg Right, the defense force is incoming with silly pictures.

Anyone who believes team 2 is invulnerable to Solar's power is really cherry picking high showings. Maybe we should see how Beyonder did against Phoenix...

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

Anyone who believes team 2 is invulnerable to Solar's power is really cherry picking high showings. Maybe we should see how Beyonder did against Phoenix...

We go by average showings, not just high showings, you know that. So if there's anyone who's cherry picking, it's you who's saying that Solar solos...

Tell me something: What average would you impose on Pre-retcon Beyonder? WF Mxy? Scathan?

When you answer that, we'll proceed and see just how far does Solar compare.

Also, from what i remember Phoenix was empowered by the Beyonder in that UXM tie-in. Ill have to recheck but im pretty sure. Not that it matters, at all.

Originally posted by operator616

Also, from what i remember Phoenix was empowered by the Beyonder in that UXM tie-in. Ill have to recheck but im pretty sure. Not that it matters, at all.
She was and he demanded his power back. She fed it back to him + all the emotions she experienced inside the M'krann Crystal. Nothing of consequence happened to Beyonder.

Originally posted by operator616
Hmm..okay, then.

You really think that Solar's consistent trouble with the spider aliens and X-O (among plenty of others things which i can reference, but those two are examples on what level he consistently operates) equates to Doom staggering Beyonder in one instance or something? Beyonder is an established multiversal+ power, while Solar is a herald-level character (on average) maybe a bit more, closer to someone like Thor or Silver Surfer rather than to someone like Odin, (forget the Beyonder) who sometimes goes way beyond his norm to achieve some multiversal feat by chance (although he has one deliberate). Id like to hear more about this "all out" Solar though, what exactly do you have in mind, im curious?

This is WF Mxy. Read the OP.

So..."Measly Celestial" is the best that you can come up with? Really? Scathan was established to be above Protege, who was above LT, that's all we know. And as such, he'll stomp Solar without a doubt. No, but it shows Beyonder isn't in the realm of invulnerable when dealing with characters of this nature. Especially when Solar eclipses Doom in every way. And his power is far beyond the likes of Rachix who gave Beyonder more than he could handle.

Hopefully everyone read the OP and realized this was Solar at his most powerful. Not him as he was inexperienced when he defeated spider aliens and easily defeated XO once he started trying. The guy destroyed and recreated every being in Valiant, you really think using him as inexperienced form would prove a point?

Another thing, but Solar stated he was holding back until he fought Mothergod. And as soon as he stopped holding back, he effortlessly downed her. So yeah, let's pretend he was only Silver Surfer level when he effortlessly owns a multiversal level being.

Very true. But Mxy doesn't have alternate forms and WF was just an extension of his appearances. It'd be like stating that Avengers 1 Hulk is an alternate form of the Hulk who fought say Gardner.

Either we assume Scathan is some alternate supergod, or we assume he's just a supped up Celestial. A Celestial who should still be around the same armor build as the others, and... and who should still have the Hyperspace weakness which judging by Solar's "cosmic awareness" should be something no more than two thoughts from his mind. Along with Solar's ability to manipulate everything in his universe, he can produce hyperspace, and he should produce it. Just because Scathan can cheapshot a high level being, that doesn't mean everything we know about Celestials is thrown out the window.

Not to mention other variables. Such as Solar absorbing Beyonder's power like Doom was able to. If such a thing happens, well, we'd have an amped up Solar to say the least already operating on such a high level. And it shouldn't be too difficult judging by Galactus' power withstanding Beyonder's full assault and then Galactus' planet eating technology taking his full power.

Every weakness of the other team is at the helm of Solar. What happens when he fights at his best level when he isn't holding back? Not a question to you mind you since you think he's only Surfer level, but in general.

Solar did preform a megaversal feat(absorbing the whole of Valiant and Image) at around half power... Which is quite a humdinger when you think about it.

Originally posted by operator616
We go by average showings, not just high showings, you know that. So if there's anyone who's cherry picking, it's you who's saying that Solar solos...

Tell me something: What average would you impose on Pre-retcon Beyonder? WF Mxy? Scathan?

When you answer that, we'll proceed and see just how far does Solar compare.

Also, from what i remember Phoenix was empowered by the Beyonder in that UXM tie-in. Ill have to recheck but im pretty sure. Not that it matters, at all. Very true, but in this scenario it's Solar operating at his highest peak, and his peak had no such low showings you're imposing on him. Beyonder did, Mxy did unless we're under the assumption his power drastically changes, and Scathan is an unknown though there's ways to place him.

Each one of them has high showings yes, but the "low showings" I'm bringing up don't go against such. Unless we're pretending Beyonder has amazing durability feats and resistance to draining, even though both of his defeats at the end of the arc had to do with his power lowering and not immune to siphoning.

Really, it doesn't need answering as it's just a refusal to look at them under an even eye. Though my previous post should give indications on them.

Reread it then, it doesn't matter. And it only goes back into Solar using his absorption power to turn Beyonder's power against him, if he doesn't outright steal all of it. Though I'll give my thoughts on how a battle would go between them shortly.

Originally posted by Galan007
Solar did preform a megaversal feat(absorbing the whole of Valiant and Image) at around half power... Which is quite a humdinger when you think about it. Either Thor or Surfer could accomplish that though apparently.

A thought I wouldn't think, but apparently that's the level being thrown around on Surfer and Thor nowadays...

^ Im curious, did you read the whole series? If so, go ahead and tell me exactly where you put him on average...and see whether my claim or yours is off. I can fully substantiate my claim though. We'll get to that.

Just a note though, That "megaversal" feat is from the same arc where Void along with that Solar were the ones who were threatening those two multiverses (seems legit). And Supreme hurt Eclipse, same Eclipse who gave Solar a fight in that same time period. Just something to think about regarding Solar's average performance. Something which is fully ignored in this thread.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
No, but it shows Beyonder isn't in the realm of invulnerable when dealing with characters of this nature. Especially when Solar eclipses Doom in every way. And his power is far beyond the likes of Rachix who gave Beyonder more than he could handle.


If we're using Beyonder at his lowest showings, and Solar at his peak, then yes, Beyonder can be harmed, we saw that a multiversal power (Puma empwoered by the powers of the multiverse) was able to kill him. But i think you're overestimating the power of Solar. By (issue #49) he outright says that he can't create a single planet:

http://i.imgur.com/31A1oDx.jpg

Just so that you're aware of his general power. That's his average. As opposed to Beyonder who's average is multiversal.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

Hopefully everyone read the OP and realized this was Solar at his most powerful. Not him as he was inexperienced when he defeated spider aliens and easily defeated XO once he started trying. The guy destroyed and recreated every being in Valiant, you really think using him as inexperienced form would prove a point?



"inexperienced", you do realize that spider aliens were a continuous threat throughout the series, correct? Here's Solar's other half (who's exactly at half power) having problems with the spider aliens in issue #35:

http://i.imgur.com/RTD8NQD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Wk5GELD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WoyixRO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/q16c5ZN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BBgYhI4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fyu42ek.jpg

I could just as easily pull scans of another instance where he's constantly having problems with the spider aliens.

And when he initially confronted them in issue #5 (iirc) he attributed his reasons not to inexperience but rather because he ran out of energy. That's always been the case. So not sure how inexperience has any relevance whatsoever here.

That's really great that he stated he was holding back. Unity happened around issues #13 and #14 of the Solar series, and believe me, he's had a plenty of low showings ever since.

As for X-O, he outright states in issue #17, that X-O's power rivals his own:

http://i.imgur.com/DptmkFf.jpg

Saying that XO is so below Solar is not true, considering how their fights faired, and since he always sees X-O as a peer, and since he always goes for X-O to help in dire situations, etc.. etc..

Yes, "every being in Valiant". Name one multiversal, or universal, or even galaxy level being in Valiant apart from Solar.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

Another thing, but Solar stated he was holding back until he fought Mothergod. And as soon as he stopped holding back, he effortlessly downed her. So yeah, let's pretend he was only Silver Surfer level when he effortlessly owns a multiversal level being.


.......What?

Mothergod is a multiversal being? I mean, seriously? Id like to hear the explanation to that....It makes complete sense though, considering Mothergod spent a thousand years making a weapon to destroy the universe....right?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

Very true. But Mxy doesn't have alternate forms and WF was just an extension of his appearances. It'd be like stating that Avengers 1 Hulk is an alternate form of the Hulk who fought say Gardner.


Mxy has alternate versions, so that point is moot.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

Either we assume Scathan is some alternate supergod, or we assume he's just a supped up Celestial. A Celestial who should still be around the same armor build as the others, and... and who should still have the Hyperspace weakness which judging by Solar's "cosmic awareness" should be something no more than two thoughts from his mind. Along with Solar's ability to manipulate everything in his universe, he can produce hyperspace, and he should produce it. Just because Scathan can cheapshot a high level being, that doesn't mean everything we know about Celestials is thrown out the window.


Hmm...remind when Solar used this "cosmic awareness" of his to exploit a weakness, because i honestly don't recall it...must be missing something.

Solar's ability to manipulate everything in the universe....? I don't even know what to respond to that. Because that's just utterly false.

As for Scathan: So basically, you have nothing to suggest he's anywhere below LT, something which was shown on panel? Cheapshot or not, it doesn't matter, he literally defeated a being more powerful than LT and then restrained him in that muzzle. But if you're implying that any random celestial can cheapshot Protege FTW...

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

Not to mention other variables. Such as Solar absorbing Beyonder's power like Doom was able to. If such a thing happens, well, we'd have an amped up Solar to say the least already operating on such a high level. And it shouldn't be too difficult judging by Galactus' power withstanding Beyonder's full assault and then Galactus' planet eating technology taking his full power.


Yes, that seems plausible based on his one showing in Deathmate....however, based on his 100 or so average appearances, id say the more likely scenario is that Solar is gonna get oneshotted into oblivion.

Originally posted by operator616
As for X-O, he outright states in issue #17, that X-O's power rivals his own:

http://i.imgur.com/DptmkFf.jpg "Could" rival his own, not "does" rival his own.

I'd chalk it up to hyperbole either way. Statements aside, Solar(even at his "average" has preformed feats WELL outside of the X-O's ability. However, at his 'most powerful'(which is what this thread specifies), the X-O is absolutely nothing in comparison to Solar:
http://imgur.com/ZM6VhuU
http://imgur.com/QbDhsfI
http://imgur.com/CSk4wV9
http://imgur.com/1qKq5xi

solar wins because galan said his feat was a humdinger. can't get better than that.

only slightly more seriously--i'll take team 1. really hard to tell who everyone else was taking...

Originally posted by Galan007
"Could" rival his own, not "does" rival his own.

I'd chalk it up to hyperbole either way. Statements aside, Solar(even at his "average" has preformed feats WELL outside of the X-O's ability. However, at his 'most powerful'(which is what this thread specifies), the X-O is absolutely nothing in comparison to Solar:
http://imgur.com/ZM6VhuU
http://imgur.com/QbDhsfI
http://imgur.com/CSk4wV9
http://imgur.com/1qKq5xi

that's the same issue where X-O gave him a fight (although Solar didn't want to kill him).....and their previous fight where it was clearly shown that they were comparable...and the fact that Solar refers to X-O's help sometimes to help him (i recall instances), if his power dwarfs X-O's why would he need him?

Yeah, when Acclaim took over, Solar got more powerful on average (although it was only a handful of issues), although that miniseries never saw him do anything impressive, as in, even universal level (only unity 2000 did). but throughout his v2 run along with the other valiant titles, it was pretty clear that he's comparable to X-O's. Perhaps not his equal, but comparable.

Originally posted by leonidas
solar wins because galan said his feat was a humdinger. can't get better than that.

only slightly more seriously--i'll take team 1. really hard to tell who everyone else was taking... I haven't really decided yet, tbh. On one hand, team 2 has some absolutely ridiculous power on its side--on the other hand, team 1 has a guy who is capable of gesturely warping the power of GOD to his whim...

Decisions, decisions... mmm

Originally posted by operator616
that's the same issue where X-O gave him a fight (although Solar didn't want to kill him)..... Nah, the scans I posted are from the 'Revelations' one-shot. X-O and Solar didn't have any further interaction.

You're probably thinking of their fight in 'Hell on Earth' #3, wherein X-O's blasts were able to harm Solar. However, that was a faux Solar created when Frank and Helena merged their essences. Phil>>>faux Solar.

^ I was referring to Solar v2 #17, when i said that he had a fight with him. That's the same issue where he said that X-O's power could rival his. Re-check it and you'll realize what i was referring to.

vegetajv2

The arguments being made against Beyonder are not working.

Beyonder wtfcurbstomped Doom. Period.

Beyonder warped the concept of Death in the realm of Battleworld which is why Doom even survived the wtfcubstomp.

Beyonder THEN, put his offense and guard down,
Beyonder began helping Doom while studying him, then comes the PIS.

Bottomline: unless the op stipulated Beyonder with helping/studying his opponents coupled with Not being battle ready (guard down) ...

... highlighting the Doom pis is completely irrelevant.

--------------------------

As for Rachel ...

*edit ... Team 1 for the stomp! Mxy and Beyonder together, wow ... then Scathan too? ouch.

Yes, but...

The sheer casualness of WF Mxy cannot be ignored here.

Originally posted by Mr Master
*edit ... Team 1 for the stomp! Mxy and Beyonder together, wow ... then Scathan too? ouch.
You mean T2

Originally posted by Mr Master
*edit ... Team 1 for the stomp! Glad you agree with Bran. vin

Originally posted by Mr Master
The arguments being made against Beyonder are not working.

Beyonder wtfcurbstomped Doom. Period.


He's got a point by referencing the FF #288 instance (the SW 2 tie in), where Doom staggered the Beyonder. That's one of the things he was referring to i think.

However, saying that someone like Solar of all people could solo PRB, WF Mxy and Scathan, is pretty hilarious and is completely baseless.

Originally posted by zopzop

You mean T2

Originally posted by Galan007

Glad you DIS-agree with Bran.
... ... lol, goodness, my name's attached to that, I gotta have Bada edit that immediately.

Originally posted by operator616
However, saying that someone like Solar of all people could solo PRB, WF Mxy and Scathan, is pretty hilarious and is completely baseless. In all honesty, WF Mxy has one of(if not THE) greatest-scale feats in all of comics, yet he preformed said feats so effortlessly that it's almost laughable.

Truly insane.

Originally posted by Mr Master


... ... lol, goodness, my name's attached to that, I gotta have Bada edit that immediately. You should report yourself.

Originally posted by operator616

He's got a point by referencing the FF #288 instance (the SW 2 tie in), where Doom staggered the Beyonder. That's one of the things he was referring to i think.
That's just dumb writing, cause Rachel let off her full fury on Beyonder, and he didn't even flinch.
Owen let off that "several Billion Dimension" annihilation blast, and it only made Beyonder cough once.
(both of them: easily > Doom)

There's other instances as you know, and it always comes back to the same thing,
they're trying to make a 50+ issue run involving GOD amongst ants, pis/silliness is a given in order to stretch the story that far.

Otherwise you got a boring read: like ... 'Beyonder raises his hand, end of story.'
Originally posted by operator616

However, saying that someone like Solar of all people could solo PRB, WF Mxy and Scathan, is pretty hilarious and is completely baseless.

Originally posted by operator616
There's also the part where we see Mxy and Bat mite in the Gemworld. Same Gemworld which was outright stated to exist outside of the multiverse in one of the letter pages of Tales of the Legion of Superheroes (which is between issue #314 and #354).

This is why it saddens me they never really portrayed Mxy as on this level of power again outside WF. He was dropped down to universal at best.



I thought the LT held multiverses in his hands?



Yeah, for him it's like..one of these things is not like the other, one of these things is not the same.

Originally posted by Surtur
This is why it saddens me they never really portrayed Mxy as on this level of power again outside WF. He was dropped down to universal at best.No, his power was still depicted as multiversal(+) during the Emperor Joker arc. I can provide evidence if you'd like.

Originally posted by Surtur
I thought the LT held multiverses in his hands? He held the embodiments of 2 megaverses(The Brothers) in his palm, yes.

Originally posted by operator616
If we're using Beyonder at his lowest showings, and Solar at his peak, then yes, Beyonder can be harmed, we saw that a multiversal power (Puma empwoered by the powers of the multiverse) was able to kill him. But i think you're overestimating the power of Solar. By (issue #49) he outright says that he can't create a single planet:

http://i.imgur.com/31A1oDx.jpg

Just so that you're aware of his general power. That's his average. As opposed to Beyonder who's average is multiversal. Difference is I'm using Beyonder at his peak powers, and you're jumping all over the place with Solar while blatantly ignoring the rules of the OP.

And you think Solar having "trouble" creating a planet is something relevant to his peak? The guy who destroyed and recreated all of Valiant? Yes, let's bring up his trouble with creating a planet. That'll show me.

Nope. And averages are irrelevant anyway when we're using his peak form. Unless you want to average out universal plus levels to planetary levels...



Originally posted by operator616
"inexperienced", you do realize that spider aliens were a continuous threat throughout the series, correct? Here's Solar's other half (who's exactly at half power) having problems with the spider aliens in issue #35:

http://i.imgur.com/RTD8NQD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Wk5GELD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WoyixRO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/q16c5ZN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BBgYhI4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fyu42ek.jpg

I could just as easily pull scans of another instance where he's constantly having problems with the spider aliens.

And when he initially confronted them in issue #5 (iirc) he attributed his reasons not to inexperience but rather because he ran out of energy. That's always been the case. So not sure how inexperience has any relevance whatsoever here.

That's really great that he stated he was holding back. Unity happened around issues #13 and #14 of the Solar series, and believe me, he's had a plenty of low showings ever since.

As for X-O, he outright states in issue #17, that X-O's power rivals his own:

http://i.imgur.com/DptmkFf.jpg

Saying that XO is so below Solar is not true, considering how their fights faired, and since he always sees X-O as a peer, and since he always goes for X-O to help in dire situations, etc.. etc..
You're against not using him at his height. And him nigh screwing around with them while destroying thousands of them without too much issue isn't exactly the best way to go about downgrading him. Though good job showing him absorbing a sun when I earlier said that planet absorbing tech absorbed the entirety of Beyonder's powers. Also good job showing his Destroyer aspect destroying a ton of XO armors...

So you figure someone just getting their Godlike powers is the same as having it at his absolute peak? And he beat him pretty easily once he applied himself anyway. And you just showed an aspect of him that he created beating up a bunch of people with XO armors.

Other low showings happening after the series against doesn't mean he was operating at his peak. Like you yourself have tried to point out that he was Surfer and Thor level on average. And if he's Surfer level on average, but multiversal level when going all out, then what exactly is relevant to a thread where he's supposed to be at his peak? Just because they exist doesn't mean he was operating at full power. He wasn't a "one" arc villain that stayed at a static power.

Lest we start using Classic Beyonder to start meaning Post Retcon Beyonder... I mean, that's the logic you're pedaling. Lower levels are more relevant than the actual peak. And I'm using peak showings for Beyonder, are you doing the same for Solar?

Anything to try and downgrade the character though, eh? But yes, the multiversal level character is only XO level. That seems legit here.

Raping XO casually when he applies himself in the what same issue your scan is from is definitely the way to show the two are comparable in power.

Originally posted by operator616
.......What?

Mothergod is a multiversal being? I mean, seriously? Id like to hear the explanation to that....It makes complete sense though, considering Mothergod spent a thousand years making a weapon to destroy the universe....right? Come and take a look fella.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Solar/mothergodpower.jpg

Oh, but the entire point of Unity was for her to rewrite the timelines as well.

Multiversal is a proven level. As shown by the scan and the premise of Unity. Just because you don't like Solar doesn't change the facts. Not to mention Solar on his own destroyed many universes anyway.

I'm not sure you even read Unity tbh. Go have a peak friend. It will change your life.


Originally posted by operator616
Mxy has alternate versions, so that point is moot. Call it an alternate version if you want, but Mxy from the Magog saga went to the same 5th Dimension the "Canon" version did. And presumably the one from WF as well following this. Unless you want to prove the two are completely separated.

Sorry, but the two seem like the same version to me. Unless you want to show that WF is more canon to the common one while the one from The Kingdom isn't based on beliefs. Or if you believe all three are different versions because... beliefs?

And right now it appears you're working strongly on that "belief" angle if you think they're somehow different versions. But if they are, then again, same power level. Just WF gave him more time to showcase his powers.



Originally posted by operator616
Hmm...remind when Solar used this "cosmic awareness" of his to exploit a weakness, because i honestly don't recall it...must be missing something.

Solar's ability to manipulate everything in the universe....? I don't even know what to respond to that. Because that's just utterly false.

As for Scathan: So basically, you have nothing to suggest he's anywhere below LT, something which was shown on panel? Cheapshot or not, it doesn't matter, he literally defeated a being more powerful than LT and then restrained him in that muzzle. But if you're implying that any random celestial can cheapshot Protege FTW... Not surprised you couldn't piece two things together tbh. He can sense everything in the universe. Can sense all sorts of energy, as well as manipulate. It doesn't take rocket doctor to understand he could sense the hyperspace. Not to mention it probably falls under common knowledge anyway considering even Zopzop knows of it.

Damaging his sensing ability shown in comics isn't the best way to go about it either. A large portion of his powers revolve around sensing powers. Hell the guy regularly goes in a state where he can see everything in the universe as energy anyway. Something which he can then manipulate.

Are you seriously questioning if a guy who recreated a multiverse controls all energy?

Meh. Let's see statements about how he can control anything.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Solar/vsolarpower9.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/solar74.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/solar19.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/solar20.jpg

Making a judgment about how his armor is much different or such and such just because he cheapshotted a being above LT is quite the assumption. That doesn't make him suddenly drastically different in makeup than any other Celestial.

Also, the "Celestial Muzzle" was just that, a Celestial muzzle. It seemed it was just a common bit of Celestial tech, which farther throws the whole thing into question. Unless we assume the Celestial muzzle was just unique to Scathan and then it defeats the purpose of calling it just that in the first place.

Knowing that Galactus planet eating tech can defeat a being above LT though might back up that Celestial tech can entrap a being above LT though...

Originally posted by operator616
Yes, that seems plausible based on his one showing in Deathmate....however, based on his 100 or so average appearances, id say the more likely scenario is that Solar is gonna get oneshotted into oblivion. I know it makes you nervous, but try to think about it from a non bias stance. His entire thing is about draining energy. He has done so before. Common knowledge of Beyonder on the only two arcs he appeared have his defeats to do with getting his energy drained. So if we can count by twos and tie our shoes, it seems we should be able to add in that Solar absorbing energy in a fight against a being vulnerable to getting his energy drained in a fight is a strong possibility.

Now once he does that to Beyonder, then it's smooth sailing for him against Mxy and Scathan.

Originally posted by Galan007
"Could" rival his own, not "does" rival his own.

I'd chalk it up to hyperbole either way. Statements aside, Solar(even at his "average" has preformed feats WELL outside of the X-O's ability. However, at his 'most powerful'(which is what this thread specifies), the X-O is absolutely nothing in comparison to Solar:
http://imgur.com/ZM6VhuU
http://imgur.com/QbDhsfI
http://imgur.com/CSk4wV9
http://imgur.com/1qKq5xi Good show Galan. But you're forgetting that Solar is obviously Silver Surfer and Thor level in this thread.

Originally posted by Galan007
No, his power was still depicted as multiversal(+) during the Emperor Joker arc. I can provide evidence if you'd like.

What did he do that was multiversal? I remember he blinked colors out of existence and stuff. I know at the end Mxy says he rebuilt everything or something, is that what you mean?

Originally posted by Galan007
In all honesty, WF Mxy has one of(if not THE) greatest-scale feats in all of comics, yet he preformed said feats so effortlessly that it's almost laughable.

Truly insane.

You should report yourself. Still a pussy though. Made even worse once Solar gets Beyonder's power.

Hell, I think deep down everyone agrees with me. Even Operator. Especially Operator.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's just dumb writing, cause Rachel let off her full fury on Beyonder, and he didn't even flinch.
Owen let off that "several Billion Dimension" annihilation blast, and it only made Beyonder cough once.
(both of them: easily > Doom)

There's other instances as you know, and it always comes back to the same thing,
they're trying to make a 50+ issue run involving GOD amongst ants, pis/silliness is a given in order to stretch the story that far.

Otherwise you got a boring read: like ... 'Beyonder raises his hand, end of story.'

I never thought I'd see the day when MM used a Phoenix in defense of someone's durability. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

Truth be told, I was just throwing out low feats to piss Op off though. Though that's not to say he still won't get his ass drained here.

Originally posted by Galan007
No, his power was still depicted as multiversal(+) during the Emperor Joker arc. I can provide evidence if you'd like.
I'd like to see that.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

I never thought I'd see the day when MM used a Phoenix in defense of someone's durability. Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Actually, I only mentioned Rachel, cause you were using that against Beyonder.

So the mighty, ... are still.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift

Truth be told, I was just throwing out low feats to piss Op off though.
I figured. But then I noticed so much logic being used and it worried me a bit.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift

Though that's not to say he still won't get his ass drained here.
Unless this is Beyonder with his guard down, helping/studying Solar ... (as in the Doom case)

... I don't think so. Like, ever.

Originally posted by Surtur
What did he do that was multiversal? I remember he blinked colors out of existence and stuff. I know at the end Mxy says he rebuilt everything or something, is that what you mean? Very early in the story, Mxy stated that Emperor Joker's influence had transcended the prime multiverse, and extended into the higher dimensional planes as well:
http://i.imgur.com/Mdq1s25.jpg
"All five dimensions gone haywire."

And as we know: most higher-dimensional planes(like the 4th World/dimension) are infinitely more vast than the prime 3d multiverse:
http://imgur.com/aH3xvAc
http://imgur.com/1kdcIDX
Orion: "All mortal universes exist inside bubbles in the one reality of New Genesis."

Joker exhibited some of this power by whimsically destroying and recreating the universe with an ACME bomb:
http://imgur.com/AG4gH1H
http://imgur.com/UwE2SAU
http://imgur.com/DztVoX2

He also overtook/replaced Spectre(God's Vengeance), before warping the Spectre entity itself into a parakeet and imprisoning it in a birdcage:
http://imgur.com/n4xOUWI
http://imgur.com/SjOZ6EX

And by the end of the arc(after he began realizing his potential) Joker had nearly succeeded in collapsing all of reality into a single point of infinite gravity:
http://imgur.com/iBrunnL
(Similar to what Darkseid was doing in Final Crisis, but on an infinitely larger scale.)

And just so we're clear: 'all of reality' in that arc=the multiverse:
http://i.imgur.com/Cy6mxSC.jpg
Spectre: "Everything will unravel. Not just your earth--not just your universe--but everything that is, was, or will be."

To further solidify the fact that DC still defined itself as a multiverse at the time:
http://i.imgur.com/a45yMHo.jpg
The above scan is from JSA #13, published 1 month before the EJ arc started.


Suffice to say, EJ was multiversal+, yet was still a n00b with Mxy's powers.

Originally posted by operator616
^ Im curious, did you read the whole series? If so, go ahead and tell me exactly where you put him on average...and see whether my claim or yours is off. I can fully substantiate my claim though. We'll get to that.

Just a note though, That "megaversal" feat is from the same arc where Void along with that Solar were the ones who were threatening those two multiverses (seems legit). And Supreme hurt Eclipse, same Eclipse who gave Solar a fight in that same time period. Just something to think about regarding Solar's average performance. Something which is fully ignored in this thread. Undoubtedly. Though I was going to ask you the same thing considering how blatantly wrong you were on so many things concerning Solar. And average is irrelevant when we're speaking strictly of him at his best. But go on and tell me how using Solar at weaker forms is much different than using Beyonder Post Retcon. I'll await with bated breath.

Pretty funny considering you're questioning his megaversal feat just because Supreme hurt the character he was fighting, yet not him. I guess you agree that we should ignore Beyonder's feats because Doom rocked the shit out of him? Guess Solar absorbing his powers won't be much help for Solar afterall...

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually, I only mentioned Rachel, cause you were using that against Beyonder.

So the mighty, ... are still.

I figured. But then I noticed so much logic being used and it worried me a bit.

Unless this is Beyonder with his guard down, helping/studying Solar ... (as in the Doom case)

... I don't think so. Like, ever. Go back and read the first letter of every paragraph of every response from me in this thread starting at this post and ending at my last one. Just click the blue "post" link in my quote to begin your journey


Originally posted by Branlor Swift

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Hell, I think deep down everyone agrees with me. Even Operator. Especially Operator. Definitely. I'm sure he won't respond with a mega-post or anything.

...Although you did kinda ask for it.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

Also, the "Celestial Muzzle" was just that, a Celestial muzzle. It seemed it was just a common bit of Celestial tech, which farther throws the whole thing into question. Unless we assume the Celestial muzzle was just unique to Scathan and then it defeats the purpose of calling it just that in the first place.
Actually, when Protege was about to erase the LT, Eternity and the rest ...
... Scathan was there, with the rest. So it wasn't exactly a cheap shot.

Also, Scathan first stomped Protege with a mega blast of energy ...
... and THEN, ... he manifested the Celestial muzzle to contain Protege.

Afterwards, the Celestial Muzzle was taken off,
and Scathan was still able to contain Protege with his bare hands.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift

Knowing that Galactus planet eating tech can defeat a being above LT though might back up that Celestial tech can entrap a being above LT though...
lol, My man B at his finest.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
a fight against a being vulnerable to getting his energy drained in a fight is a strong possibility.

This isn't Beyonder (with his guard down) helping/studying Solar.

I believe this is Beyonder battle ready.

In which case, unless anyone can highlight an instance where Beyonder got his energy drained in battle, this is a moot point to continue riding.

Originally posted by Galan007
Definitely. I'm sure he won't respond with a mega-post or anything.

...Although you did kinda ask for it. I hope he does. I've done what I set out to accomplish and had sexy fun doing it. I have nothing left to prove here.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

I've done what I set out to accomplish and had sexy fun doing it.
Damn, ... you even got me too. madfist ... ya bastaad

Bran FTW.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Difference is I'm using Beyonder at his peak powers, and you're jumping all over the place with Solar while blatantly ignoring the rules of the OP.

And you think Solar having "trouble" creating a planet is something relevant to his peak? The guy who destroyed and recreated all of Valiant? Yes, let's bring up his trouble with creating a planet. That'll show me.

Nope. And averages are irrelevant anyway when we're using his peak form. Unless you want to average out universal plus levels to planetary levels...


The rules of the OP is to use the most powerful version, which is the Valiant/Acclaim, in the same sense that we're using Pre-retcon Beyonder not just pre-retcon highest showings Beyonder. Pretty simple.

The guy who destroyed and recreated all valiant? When was that exactly, remind me? If you're referring to Unity 2000, where he destroyed the multiverse, then you should know it was outright stated he only destroyed a universe and the others would follow like dominos. So yeah. But aside from that, he warped all realities throughout the multiverse unintentionally.
This scan is very much relevant since it took a great portion of his life, if he truly capable of recreating a planet from nothingness he wouldn't have bothered with all the time travel back in time and helping the development of the planet along.

Already explained.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

You're against not using him at his height. And him nigh screwing around with them while destroying thousands of them without too much issue isn't exactly the best way to go about downgrading him. Though good job showing him absorbing a sun when I earlier said that planet absorbing tech absorbed the entirety of Beyonder's powers. Also good job showing his Destroyer aspect destroying a ton of XO armors...

So you figure someone just getting their Godlike powers is the same as having it at his absolute peak? And he beat him pretty easily once he applied himself anyway. And you just showed an aspect of him that he created beating up a bunch of people with XO armors.

Other low showings happening after the series against doesn't mean he was operating at his peak. Like you yourself have tried to point out that he was Surfer and Thor level on average. And if he's Surfer level on average, but multiversal level when going all out, then what exactly is relevant to a thread where he's supposed to be at his peak? Just because they exist doesn't mean he was operating at full power. He wasn't a "one" arc villain that stayed at a static power.

Lest we start using Classic Beyonder to start meaning Post Retcon Beyonder... I mean, that's the logic you're pedaling. Lower levels are more relevant than the actual peak. And I'm using peak showings for Beyonder, are you doing the same for Solar?

Anything to try and downgrade the character though, eh? But yes, the multiversal level character is only XO level. That seems legit here.

Raping XO casually when he applies himself in the what same issue your scan is from is definitely the way to show the two are comparable in power.


Without too much of an issue...? You do realize that you're arguing that Solar would solo PRB, Mxy and Scathan, so you really expect me to believe that a guy who takes time in destroying some spider aliens, would be able to do anything to those 3? However, here's how he faired against them at the beginning of the series:

http://i.imgur.com/IyVXTQD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8Nn6reA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DSHJxrs.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/61bJkwe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OliVAV9.jpg

That's the guy who's gonna solo beyonder, Mxy and Scathan, people

I already said that it was Solar at half power, which he actually said. And that's how he remains for the rest of the series. But half the power which can beat PRB alone....should be more than enough to beat some spider aliens, no?


It's relevant because we're using a specific most powerful version of the character, but based on average showings. I already explained that point clearly.

Im using an average Beyonder and comparing him to an Average Solar, in which case, Solar is horribly and hilariously outmatched.

No, but Solar outright admitting that his power is rivaled by X-O's is. And he never raped X-O casually, when he applied himself. He was just increasing the temperature inside the armor, which affects Eric. However,looking back at the battle between X-O and Solar in issue #7, it all becomes pretty clear. Observe and learn:

http://i.imgur.com/BR80u55.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0VM6dwN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pr6lwkX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lDuI4LS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/VXMhspf.jpg

X-O literaly could have killed Solar if he hadn't recharged. And yet, he's not on X-O's level...no, Solar is multiversal, and can solo Beyonder and the others. That seems to make much more sense.

Also, im pretty sure a Solar got killed by some space fleet, i think it was in a Rai issue, im searching for it, but not remembering the exact issue. I remember that issue clearly showcasing on what power level he operates too.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

Come and take a look fella.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Solar/mothergodpower.jpg

Oh, but the entire point of Unity was for her to rewrite the timelines as well.

Multiversal is a proven level. As shown by the scan and the premise of Unity. Just because you don't like Solar doesn't change the facts. Not to mention Solar on his own destroyed many universes anyway.

I'm not sure you even read Unity tbh. Go have a peak friend. It will change your life.



And you say how much i read of Unity....

Damn. How much have you really read from Unity, is the real question here. Because im betting you didn't read jack.

Because you see, it was shown in detail how Mothergod was preparing throughout the ages (until she reached the 4000 year) to actually achieve her plan:

http://i.imgur.com/65Q4DBp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/b5dnYm3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FBSfl3a.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uTiUo1n.jpg

And here she literally explains how she was going to do it -- through a machine which rips a hole in the space/time continuum:

http://i.imgur.com/5FJMBUg.jpg

By all means though, continue to pretend like she's some sort of multiversal being -- just like you claim solar is -- and provide these multiversal feats of hers. However, multiversal beings usually don't get killed by Rai's sword, for one. Who actually attempted to kill her with it, and her son Albert eventually.

This begs the question how much you really know of Solar, actually. Which is becoming pretty clear.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

Not surprised you couldn't piece two things together tbh. He can sense everything in the universe. Can sense all sorts of energy, as well as manipulate. It doesn't take rocket doctor to understand he could sense the hyperspace. Not to mention it probably falls under common knowledge anyway considering even Zopzop knows of it.

Damaging his sensing ability shown in comics isn't the best way to go about it either. A large portion of his powers revolve around sensing powers. Hell the guy regularly goes in a state where he can see everything in the universe as energy anyway. Something which he can then manipulate.

Are you seriously questioning if a guy who recreated a multiverse controls all energy?

Meh. Let's see statements about how he can control anything.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Solar/vsolarpower9.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/solar74.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/solar19.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/solar20.jpg

Making a judgment about how his armor is much different or such and such just because he cheapshotted a being above LT is quite the assumption. That doesn't make him suddenly drastically different in makeup than any other Celestial.

Also, the "Celestial Muzzle" was just that, a Celestial muzzle. It seemed it was just a common bit of Celestial tech, which farther throws the whole thing into question. Unless we assume the Celestial muzzle was just unique to Scathan and then it defeats the purpose of calling it just that in the first place.


So basically you have nothing and as such resort to insults? Pretty convenient tactic. Lol if you think he can sense everything in the universe, because as you know, there have been no instances where he has been surprised even by humans or spider aliens or some sentient crystals....no. for some reason, he'll use his "cosmic awareness" to exploit a weakeness which he's never done. good assumption, but baseless, as always.

Are you seriously saying that Solar created a multiverse? Lol, for real? Don't tell me that you are basing this off him creating alternate timelines, because anyone who ACTUALLY READ the story, would know that it was explained that anyone who enters the time stream would unintentionally create a divergent reality, Solar did just that: entered the timestream, and created divergent realities. Seriously, read the comics. Especially before you accuse me of not reading them.

Also, you do understand that this place he goes into is just that: A place, from where he sees everything, similar to how in DC has Metron see from an "aleph point" (i think it was called) everything there in existence.

I honestly don't see what you're arguing regarding Scathan. It was established that he overpowered Protege, confirmed in a bio. Period.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

I know it makes you nervous, but try to think about it from a non bias stance. His entire thing is about draining energy. He has done so before. Common knowledge of Beyonder on the only two arcs he appeared have his defeats to do with getting his energy drained. So if we can count by twos and tie our shoes, it seems we should be able to add in that Solar absorbing energy in a fight against a being vulnerable to getting his energy drained in a fight is a strong possibility.

Now once he does that to Beyonder, then it's smooth sailing for him against Mxy and Scathan.

"Makes me nervous"? now why would you say that? Im perfectly aware of Solar's limits, which is why im not going to buy that stupid notion that Solar is going to drain the Beyonder, based on his highest showing and Beyonder's lowest.

Lol, sure thing.

Originally posted by guy222
Bran FTW. The voice of reason, as always.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Undoubtedly. Though I was going to ask you the same thing considering how blatantly wrong you were on so many things concerning Solar. And average is irrelevant when we're speaking strictly of him at his best. But go on and tell me how using Solar at weaker forms is much different than using Beyonder Post Retcon. I'll await with bated breath.

Pretty funny considering you're questioning his megaversal feat just because Supreme hurt the character he was fighting, yet not him. I guess you agree that we should ignore Beyonder's feats because Doom rocked the shit out of him? Guess Solar absorbing his powers won't be much help for Solar afterall...

Oh if there is anyone who's hilariously wrong here, it's definitely you. You're literally just nitpicking scans from comics without any context whatsoever. But you'll see shortly just how wrong you are.

Considering that the OP was saying every character is at their highest citing someone like WF Mxy and Classic(PR) beyonder, he's saying that we use the most powerful version, which is Valiant/Acclaim as opposed to Gold Key version. Had the OP said that everyone at their highest, like Classic high showings only Beyonder, id agree. But as it is, it means we're using the most powerful version with average showings.

No, i questioned also his megaversal feat because Void was perfoming a multiversal feat, a level she is nowhere near that. That whole crossover seemed pretty odd. But whatever, i acknowledged his feat there, but said that it is inconsistent. If we're using a high showings only, Solar, then it'd be a different story.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

Hell, I think deep down everyone agrees with me. Even Operator. Especially Operator.


That's funny, because i see it completely ridiculous that you hold Solar in such high regards. No kidding. I read his every appearance, and i will say with full confidence that he's nowhere near multiversal, universal, or even galaxy-level, on average.

^^ Beautiful response opr, but unfortunately you've also become a victim of the Bran.
I guess with time you'll understand what that means, most been there at one time or another.

That aside, what the hell is this? Is the Beyonder coming back?

http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/18832544_B.jpg

Anyone know about this?

Originally posted by operator616
But you'll see shortly just how wrong you are. Go on.

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ Beautiful response opr, but unfortunately you've also become a victim of the Bran.
I guess with time you'll understand what that means, most been there at one time or another.

That aside, what the hell is this? Is the Beyonder coming back?

http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/18832544_B.jpg

Anyone know about this? Either him, or it could be talking about Cosmic Man/Dr Midas

If it ends up being the Beyonder, I'm sure he'll still be a Mutant/Inhuman, given that Bendis(the same dude who was responsible for that retcon) is tied to this event.

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ Beautiful response opr, but unfortunately you've also become a victim of the Bran.
I guess with time you'll understand what that means, most been there at one time or another.

That aside, what the hell is this? Is the Beyonder coming back?

http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/18832544_B.jpg

Anyone know about this?
Richard Rider.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Go back and read the first letter of every paragraph of every response from me in this thread starting at this post and ending at my last one. Just click the blue "post" link in my quote to begin your journey

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ Beautiful response opr, but unfortunately you've also become a victim of the Bran.
I guess with time you'll understand what that means, most been there at one time or another.


Damn. It took me till now to see it.

I hope the Trapper thread wasn't a hoax too.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Richard Rider. Speaking of Bendis...

Dick punched Thanos so hard out of the Cancerverse that his shockwave also blew Starlord out and knocked him back too far.
Someway Thanos is getting shit on here, so I'm wondering if both heroes get written up or just one. Maybe Dick broke his neck hitting a rock.

Originally posted by Galan007
The voice of reason, as always.

Originally posted by operator616
Damn. It took me till now to see it.

I hope the Trapper thread wasn't a hoax too. Nah that was legit. Though I was having fun then too since I knew almost nothing about Trapper either. I was planning a response and almost had part of one done (even brought my laptop to answer it), but I had no wifi when I went to work so I just gave up on it.
What I had was turning pretty dickish (it escalades pretty quickly after you said English wasn't your first language) too so I just gave up finishing it when I came back. So meh.

Though I do like debating with you since it gets large instantly. Keeps me entertained anyway.

You never answered me in that other thread, operator. What is your first language?

You Mexican?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Speaking of Bendis...

Dick punched Thanos so hard out of the Cancerverse that his shockwave also blew Starlord out and knocked him back too far.
Someway Thanos is getting shit on here, so I'm wondering if both heroes get written up or just one. Maybe Dick broke his neck hitting a rock.
Pretty sure I read somewhere and or someone in these boards said that Bendis was finally going to tell what happened to Rider... And Original Sin was where its going to happen.. Then again I may have dreamt this all up..

Btw, Rider ain't no weaksauce Grayson... That kind of thing only happens to weaker Dicks..

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Nah that was legit. Though I was having fun then too since I knew almost nothing about Trapper either. I was planning a response and almost had part of one done (even brought my laptop to answer it), but I had no wifi when I went to work so I just gave up on it.
What I had was turning pretty dickish (it escalades pretty quickly after you said English wasn't your first language) too so I just gave up finishing it when I came back. So meh.

Though I do like debating with you since it gets large instantly. Keeps me entertained anyway.

After the Trapper debate, i re-checked some pre-crisis Legion comics, to refresh my memory so that i could explain the Supergirl part more accurately (i only recalled one instance off the top of my head which i referenced, but i didn't have the time to recall for others). I put about 2 hours into it. And had everything explained. Unfortunately, i never got the chance to post it (although i still have it).

Originally posted by Galan007
You never answered me in that other thread, operator. What is your first language?

You Mexican?

Russian.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Pretty sure I read somewhere and or someone in these boards said that Bendis was finally going to tell what happened to Rider... And Original Sin was where its going to happen.. Then again I may have dreamt this all up..

Btw, Rider ain't no weaksauce Grayson... That kind of thing only happens to weaker Dicks..
He is. In August. In GOTG.

And it's going to suck under Bendis.

Originally posted by operator616
Russian. F*ck one, marry one, kill one: blue denim jeans, disco clubs, krav maga.

Go!

^
Fedor

Originally posted by operator616
After the Trapper debate, i re-checked some pre-crisis Legion comics, to refresh my memory so that i could explain the Supergirl part more accurately (i only recalled one instance off the top of my head which i referenced, but i didn't have the time to recall for others). I put about 2 hours into it. And had everything explained. Unfortunately, i never got the chance to post it (although i still have it). I dl'ed a couple gigs of Legion comics that I'll probably never read...
But yeah, I thought I'd only be gone for like 2 or 3 days like the last couple trips, but 9 days pretty much made me not care too much. Whatever, I'll take the L if it calls for it.

I have a couple of what you've explained though in my PM box though. Like full multiple post arguments that are only a couple sentences from being done that I just never posted. While not quite finished, I had a lot done in response to you, but meh. Wasted hours.

Post dat sheet operator. Him taking the L for it wont matter. Just look at it as pouring salt in the wounds.

And I love me some scans!!!

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
^
Fedor

I dl'ed a couple gigs of Legion comics that I'll probably never read...
But yeah, I thought I'd only be gone for like 2 or 3 days like the last couple trips, but 9 days pretty much made me not care too much. Whatever, I'll take the L if it calls for it.

I have a couple of what you've explained though in my PM box though. Like full multiple post arguments that are only a couple sentences from being done that I just never posted. While not quite finished, I had a lot done in response to you, but meh. Wasted hours.

If you want to continue the debate...it's your call.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Post dat sheet operator. Him taking the L for it wont matter. Just look at it as pouring salt in the wounds.

And I love me some scans!!!

Ill post it, if Bran responds. Although, i hadn't the scans at the ready (merely long texts), but i can post them if you want.

Nah, like I said I have no urge to continue after this long. Plus I'd have to take a lot of the dickish parts out. I was having fun with it, now I have no attachment. Really just turn into an ego fest if it continued.
Have no issue if you post yours though. Can't see myself continuing unless you started throwing around insults.

Any debate at this point would be the same thing since I have to go to work tomorrow. Another time.