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In terms of realised ability with the Force (ignoring The Ones of course).

Sidious
Yoda
Talzin
Kar Vastor
Anakin
Dooku
Windu
Maul
Savage
Obi-Wan/Ventress

Revan.

The Bane Gestalt.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious
Yoda
Talzin
Kar Vastor
Anakin
Dooku
Windu
Maul
Savage
Obi-Wan/Ventress

Anakin that high?

Also Fay should be on the list, Obi-Wan was literally in awe of her power.

What are Vastor's feats?

They're only vaguely in order.

I forgot about her. Buuut, didn't Ventress kill her with the Force? Because if so Ventress gets on the list, not her.

Mace said he was approaching Yoda's level of power.

No, she overpowered Ventress in their Force battle; she got wounded by Ventress's lightsaber some time later, but would have recovered had she not transferred her power over to Obi-Wan.

Wasn't that just in raw power?

Okay, whatever. Replace Ventress and Obi-Wan with her.

Well this is the most powerful Force users thread.

In realised ability. Basically in terms of what they can consciously do at any time.

Kar Vastor was able to use the force to remove individual virus cells from some person. Honestly, I don't think any other character has ever shown to have anywhere near that much precision with the force. Based off that feat, Mace concluded that Vastor had potential on par with Yoda's or Anakin's.

This could be Mace just being humble though.

The Jedi Path mentions that Jedi train by filling a bottle with oxygen particles, plucked from the air one by one.

Sidious/Yoda
Talzin
Dooku
Windu
Kar Vastor (???Wasn't he apprenticed to Depa though? If so he drops.)
Anakin
Maul
Savage
Obi-Wan/Ventress

Palpatine
Yoda
Talzin
Dooku
Fay

Bandon for sure.

Everyone's rating Talzin very high. But isn't she more about the Magic than a strict Force user.

Your average nightsister is stronger then your average jedi

Lolno.

Stabbed in the back while she was helping Kenobi.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Everyone's rating Talzin very high. But isn't she more about the Magic than a strict Force user.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130607044500/starwars/images/6/64/ProtectionBubble-Massacre.png

You see those little bows and laser arrows? Those are part of what made TCW suck.

True. Thats so dumb.

youarealittlebitch

I don't see the problem with them. Sure, they're not as practical as using a blaster in combat.

However, isn't it also less practical to use a bow an arrow to hunt than it would be just to use a rifle? People still use bows and arrows for that, the Nightsisters were hunters, not soldiers.

I thought the energy bows looked cool.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You see those little bows and laser arrows? Those are part of what made TCW suck. TCW didn't suck at all, smart stuff

Originally posted by Eminence
youarealittlebitch "When you see Vegeta..."

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I don't see the problem with them. Sure, they're not as practical as using a blaster in combat.

However, isn't it also less practical to use a bow an arrow to hunt than it would be just to use a rifle? People still use bows and arrows for that, the Nightsisters were hunters, not soldiers. It's Star Wars, not f*cking "Check out what old timey thing we can add lasers to, also look at these shiny keys that we can dangle in your face--jingle jingle jingle!"

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I thought the energy bows looked like an attempt to make things look cool without appreciation for the franchise's prior style and iconic feel. FTFY.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Talzin Image


I think you missed the main point of my post:

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Everyone's rating Talzin very high. But isn't she more about the Magic than a strict Force user.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
It's Star Wars, not f*cking "Check out what old timey thing we can add lasers to, also look at these shiny keys that we can dangle in your face--jingle jingle jingle!"

FTFY.
The Jedi and Sith were two force sensitive Orders that wielded the laser version of a sword. The Nightsisters are a force sensitive Order that have some notable differences from the Jedi and Sith, so instead of wielding the laser version of a sword, they wield the laser version of a bow. I thought that worked out pretty well.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You see those little bows and laser arrows? Those are part of what made TCW suck.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
The Jedi and Sith were two force sensitive Orders that wielded the laser version of a sword. The Nightsisters are a force sensitive Order that have some notable differences from the Jedi and Sith, so instead of wielding the laser version of a sword, they wield the laser version of a bow. I thought that worked out pretty well. Yes, it did. For a children's show that's just trying to be as colorful and lasery as possible. It's a cartoon addition to a cartoon. I want something that goes beyond "Look how cool this is hur hur hur".


F*cking stupid.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Everyone's rating Talzin very high. But isn't she more about the Magic than a strict Force user.

The magics of the Nightsisters are simply a different application and usage of the Force, considering how it was described in the book of Sith. In fact, the Nightsister's religion was actually more accurate than the Jedi and Sith's beliefs about the Force.

That being said, her sorceries were extremely potent, and her mundane applications of the Force have proven to be extremely good as well.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
It's Star Wars, not f*cking "Check out what old timey thing we can add lasers to, also look at these shiny keys that we can dangle in your face--jingle jingle jingle!"

Wookiee Bowcaster. (the bows are still stupid though)

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yes, it did. For a children's show that's just trying to be as colorful and lasery as possible. It's a cartoon addition to a cartoon. I want something that goes beyond "Look how cool this is hur hur hur".


F*cking stupid.
I'm sorry, but aren't pretty much all weapons in the movies lasery?

I also don't see the problem with something looking cool.

That's because it only existed to look cool. The laser guns we see from the first scene of the first movie were part of the point and style of the franchise. Future shit is future. The lightsabers were unique, rare relics of a simpler, "more noble" time where personal, one-on-one combat meant something. Especially to an order of Knights. That the main character(s) still frequently make use of guns is testament to their inherent worth as weapons. Guns make sense, laser or no. In a universe where they're the norm, what is the goddamn point in relegating the technology to bows and arrows, especially when the audience is meant to take them seriously as weapons of war?


It's not just that they exist, it's why they were included in the first place. The laser bows are just the producers way of taking something "old" and sci-fi-ing it up to convince audiences "this is cool, see? Look." If they're just going to shoot laser weapons, use laser guns. The bow and arrow thing is just schlock meant to impress easily impressed people who think it's clever.


Really, that entire television show existed because it was, and was filled mostly of, "things that only look cool." I get it's a children's show, but the whole thing was so f*cking simplistic, formulaic, stale, dull, overly-computerized, schlock. A few arcs and episodes and moments here and there were interesting from a character-perspective, but overall, blech. And that such a blatant cash/attention-grab rates higher in canon than books like Cloak of Deception or games like KotOR just makes me sad.


Originally posted by ares834
Wookiee Bowcaster. (the bows are still stupid though) Old, iconic weapon aside, I never thought much of those. At least they're still laser guns, just with a twist.

It's because they aren't weapons of war, the Nightsisters are hunters, not soldiers. That is the only equipment they had to fight the droid army with.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
That's because it only existed to look cool. The laser guns we see from the first scene of the first movie were part of the point and style of the franchise. Future shit is future. The lightsabers were unique, rare relics of a simpler, "more noble" time where personal, one-on-one combat meant something. Especially to an order of Knights. That the main character(s) still frequently make use of guns is testament to their inherent worth as weapons. Guns make sense, laser or no. In a universe where they're the norm, what is the goddamn point in relegating the technology to bows and arrows, especially when the audience is meant to take them seriously as weapons of war?


It's not just that they exist, it's why they were included in the first place. The laser bows are just the producers way of taking something "old" and sci-fi-ing it up to convince audiences "this is cool, see? Look." If they're just going to shoot laser weapons, use laser guns. The bow and arrow thing is just schlock meant to impress easily impressed people who think it's clever.


Really, that entire television show existed because it was, and was filled mostly of, "things that only look cool." I get it's a children's show, but the whole thing was so f*cking simplistic, formulaic, stale, dull, overly-computerized, schlock. A few arcs and episodes and moments here and there were interesting from a character-perspective, but overall, blech. And that such a blatant cash/attention-grab rates higher in canon than books like Cloak of Deception or games like KotOR just makes me sad.


Old, iconic weapon aside, I never thought much of those. At least they're still laser guns, just with a twist.


...of all the things to get pissed about TCWs and the general state of the Star Wars Universe...you chose *that* to get pissed about. Not the plot, not the Jar Jar episodes, not the blatant disregard to scale (3 million droids being able to turn the tide of a galactic scale confrontation) but the ****ing lazer bows? Seriously?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yes, it did. For a children's show that's just trying to be as colorful and lasery as possible. It's a cartoon addition to a cartoon. I want something that goes beyond "Look how cool this is hur hur hur".


F*cking stupid. it's not a children's show I'm 19 and I enjoyed it

Originally posted by NewGuy01
It's because they aren't weapons of war, the Nightsisters are hunters, not soldiers. That is the only equipment they had to fight the droid army with. That will make for a wonderful explanation in the noveliz---just use guns! Or Force Lightning, or telekinesis, or your retarded ass Harry Potter magic that is also only a thing because of "how epic badass cool it is, brah."


Or guns.


Originally posted by Lord Stark
...of all the things to get pissed about TCWs and the general state of the Star Wars Universe...you chose *that* to get pissed about. Not the plot, not the Jar Jar episodes, not the blatant disregard to scale (3 million droids being able to turn the tide of a galactic scale confrontation) but the ****ing lazer bows? Seriously? Apparently you didn't read my summary of my attitude toward the show in the third paragraph. I could have gone on, but once you get to a post that long, you're already stretching it dangerously close to the Rant Zone. I don't like that place. Bad memories.


After I originally watched each episode, I did rant a lot.

Originally posted by PTforthewin
I'm 19 You have not posted a single thing that would make me even come remotely close to believing that you're any older than 13.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Apparently you didn't read my summary of my attitude toward the show in the third paragraph. I could have gone on, but once you get to a post that long, you're already stretching it dangerously close to the Rant Zone. I don't like that place. Bad memories.


After I originally watched each episode, I did rant a lot.


I'd agree with that notion. They could have at least given them an electric aura to make them look force powered.

I would be George R. Binks.

Love that guy. They somehow made a Gungan look badass.

Yep.

Also, whoops.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Love that guy. They somehow made a Gungan look badass. most Gungans are bad ass

Ha. Link fail.



Originally posted by PTforthewin
most Gungans are bad ass

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Ha. Link fail.



captain tarpals pwned grievous

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
That will make for a wonderful explanation in the noveliz---just use guns! Or Force Lightning, or telekinesis, or your retarded ass Harry Potter magic that is also only a thing because of "how epic badass cool it is, brah

When humans hunt for sport, many humans use bows rather than guns, and yet when the Nightsisters, am extremely traditional tribe, prefer to hunt with bow-like weapons, it's unrealistic and stupid?

Originally posted by PTforthewin
captain tarpals pwned grievous Yes. By dying.


Originally posted by NewGuy01
When humans hunt for sport, many humans use bows rather than guns, and yet when the Nightsisters, am extremely traditional tribe, prefer to hunt with bow-like weapons, it's unrealistic and stupid? I didn't use the word "unrealistic", but I would use the term "ill-thought out". Or "there for the sake of it". Probably both. In conjunction.

When we hunt for sport using bows, we hunt for sport. We still go in to battle and fight wars with guns, and bombs, and tanks, and all that fun jazz. For a people who have had what seems to be regular access to the wider galaxy, enough that they can obtain laser bows and laser arrows, and who also have Harry Potter magic coming out the whazoo, they still get depicted as being nomadic-style primitives. They're aliens using lasers and godly magic powers (which I despise far more, BTW), and the writers still felt like adding that little bit of old timey weaponry. Except they're made of lasers.


That little addition just reeks of a larger problem, which I went on about earlier. They had the notion of rehashing the cliched theme of the technologically and numerically superior invaders being driven out by the old-fashioned, primitive natives. To better underscore that, they gave them bows and arrows, Avatar style. Or Ewoks style. But because it's Star Wars and computer animated, they had to make it Star Warsy and flashy. So make them laser bows and arrows. There, good enough. Nevermind it comes off as a lazy and cheap attempt at creating a contrast and something of an insult to the viewer's intelligence (admittedly, it's a children's show, but that's never been an excuse for poor storyboarding or writing).

And that was just the one element of one scene from one episode from one season. And I only remembered it after seeing that picture. If I strain my memory hard enough, I'm sure I could find a ton of similar problems on a far more egregious scale. We b*tch about Lucas putting stupid, colorful, flashy shit in the Prequels, but the television show doesn't get a free pass just because it's still otherwise superior. Which is also really sad, actually.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien

When we hunt for sport using bows, we hunt for sport. We still go in to battle and fight wars with guns, and bombs, and tanks, and all that fun jazz. For a people who have had what seems to be regular access to the wider galaxy,


But the Nightsisters are not soldiers, they were not prepared to go to war with the droids.

Kay. Why do they have laser bows and arrows? Don't tell me it's for "hunting" or some shit, because that what you use actual bows and arrows for. You have advanced laserific technology, and you put in to primitive technology because... it looks super awesome bro. Totes cool.


Which actually sums up about half the entire mythos. Boring and stupid.

You've had a lot of valid criticisms of Star Wars, but Nightsisters wielding energy bows isn't one of them.

It's not some make or break deal. Like I said earlier, it's just a symptom of a larger problem. You can throw any excuse imaginable as to those things' practical purpose, but they still look and feel ridiculous.

Star Wars has always run on the Rule of Cool & Awesome, But Impractical tropes. This is nothing new.

True, but most of them felt like they fit in. Those little bows felt like something shoehorned unnecessarily for the sake of looking sweet. Doesn't matter what franchise or director does that, it would rub me wrong either way, so don't take it as some pre-conceived bias thing. I originally had high hopes for the show.


TCW isn't big on building up any characters to anything meaningful or worthwhile, and the Nightsisters are no exception. If they devoted time in that show (I mean, a lot of time) to establishing their culture, the people, their history, their technology, their beliefs etc., and incorporated those weapons in to a larger world that was more in line with a widespread style of semi-primitive, quasi-technology, then they wouldn't stand out so painfully.

Like how (and I can't believe I'm doing this) the water-world, bubble-esque, semi-primitive, quasi-technological Gungans had weaponry that deviated from the typical "Lasers! Lasers and metal everywhere!" The boomas felt a unique weapon for them with appropriate visuals and utility. Those little bows just popped out on screen as some writer's attempt to emulate that, but with little effort to make it gel. They weren't some creative way to introduce a new kind of gadget or weapon that stood out as unique and appropriate. It just felt like: take thing A, combine with Star Warsy thing B, thus C=teh coolz, brah.


And like I keep saying, that feeling of carefree wannabe Star Wars sensation permeates the entire show. Like it had all the set-up to be an interesting project, but in the attempts to be overly appealing to both every age group and the slobbering, mindless fanboys, it wound up just being blech.

k



I disagree. The Nightsisters are pretty immediately established as a fairly technologically primitive race of Amazonian women/witches. Their energy bows harken to the similarly unsophisticated Wookiees and I don't see their presence as being anachronistic or otherwise out of place.



I do. Not saying you're not welcome to your opinions and you've certainly made convincing arguments against TCW, the prequels, KotOR 2, etc. in the past, but this one doesn't make much sense to me.

But for the record, when you say things like this:



...You do confirm that the pre-conceived bias exists.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I disagree. The Nightsisters are pretty immediately established as a fairly technologically primitive race of Amazonian women/witches. Their energy bows harken to the similarly unsophisticated Wookiees and I don't see their presence as being anachronistic or otherwise out of place. I've never cared for those either, but they always had the look and feel of guns to them. As far as I can tell from Chewbacca's, it is a gun. It just looks like a crossbow. I never saw him nocking a laser arrow against a laser string just for the sake of adding more laser effects to the framerate. Make an episode of the Wookiees fighting the droids and show them swinging on laser vines or calling to one another with laser trumpets and it'd be just as shoehorned, pointless, and stupid.


And that pointless, jarring, incredibly overt Tarzan yell from Chewie in RotJ? Hated that shit for the same reason.



Originally posted by The_Tempest
I do. Not saying you're not welcome to your opinions and you've certainly made convincing arguments against TCW, the prequels, KotOR 2, etc. in the past, but this one doesn't make much sense to me.

But for the record, when you say things like this:



...You do confirm that the pre-conceived bias exists. Yeah, against the films, which is what I was citing there.

I don't like nightsisters. A society where the men submit to the women? Psht someone needs to introduce Dathomire to the backhand and the phrase "Make me a sandwich"

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120612164244/starwars/images/1/13/DeathOldDaka.jpg

Done.

I like them, though, and I actually thought the zombies thing was really well done. Doesn't hurt that their destruction gave us one of the General's fairly uncommon good days.

I think arming female characters with bows is to tap into the 'Amazon' trope.

In Serenity, Inara Serra used a weird pseudo-technological bow based weapon.

She's pretty, so I like it.